I love keyless go in my car, very convenient. MB hasn't used a physical key in US market cars for a long time, since maybe 1996 or so, when they switched to an electronic fob that is inserted like a key.
After we drove the Prius V last week, we were sitting in the car checking stuff out. I had the driver's door open and was chatting with the sales guy standing a few feet away. I put my foot on a pedal (the brake iirc) and the car started. The keys were still in the console, but the behavior wasn't expected, since I had pushed the button to turn the car off off. Must have been the Stop-Start system?
Just think, I could have plowed right into the showroom and made the SUA news; getting to be the right age, right?
I read an article the other day, on what to do if you're in your car and get caught in a tornado. Almost since the dawn of time, they always told you that if you can't get out of its path, to get out of the car, get as far away from it as possible, and go lie face-down in a ditch or even low spot on the ground. Inside a car was about the very worst place you could get caught in a tornado.
However, nowadays, the info is different. This article said to stay inside the car if you can't find good cover, duck down as low as possible, and keep the engine running so the airbags will activate as needed.
So, while not 100% safe, I guess that's an indication that cars are getting safer.
Huh, I was just thinking about that (lots of relatives live down in tornado country). I was assuming heading for the ditch was still the preference, even though I always wondered about all that flying debris.
I would imagine a good, deep ditch is still best. But, they used to say get out of the car at all costs, where now they at least offer it as an option.
Guess I'll just try to find a nice ditch to drive the car into. Scary things (although I managed to nap through one that killed 4 people a few miles away when I was a teen). My niece's house got hit a couple of years ago in Chattanooga (mostly shingle damage) and my nephew came out unscathed up in Nashville about 6 or 8 years ago but half his block was flattened. At least you usually get some warning, unlike earthquakes.
I actually skirted around a funnel cloud back in 1999, while delivering pizzas. Came over a hill during a serious downpour, and suddenly the rain cleared up, and I could see this cloud groping down in front of me. But I figured what the hey, kept going, and when I got to my destination, I was on the other side of it! Damn thing was closer than I had thought! The people I was making the delivery to were out on their back deck, videotaping it. Fortunately this one didn't touch down, and the tornadoes out here in Maryland are usually pretty mild, and not that common. Or, so we thought, until late 2002 when one hit at the University of Maryland, and killed a couple people. I think they were in their cars. You can still see some big trees that are down, in the forests, from that storm. Then there was the F5 that roared through LaPlata in early 2013. Less than 20 miles from my Mom and Stepdad's house. And heck, probably only a mile, or less, from where I attended 4th grade!
You haven't lived until you're driving during an earthquake, feeling your car bounce up and down on its suspension while you watch the lamp posts around you dance in the streets to the tune of "Eve of Destruction".
@Stever@Edmunds said:
Guess I'll just try to find a nice ditch to drive the car into. Scary things (although I managed to nap through one that killed 4 people a few miles away when I was a teen). My niece's house got hit a couple of years ago in Chattanooga (mostly shingle damage) and my nephew came out unscathed up in Nashville about 6 or 8 years ago but half his block was flattened. At least you usually get some warning, unlike earthquakes.
Had my share of those too, but never while driving. The nice thing about the UP is that there's really not much in the way of natural disasters up here.
Of course, it is snowing outside my window as I type this.
I can still vividly remember here in the DC area, the Great Earthquake of 2011...
All kidding aside, it was pretty intense where the epicenter was, Culpeper Va, I think. And the Washington Monument is STILL closed as a result of it. I remember sitting in my office when it happened. At first there was a rumble and vibration that I didn't pay much attention to...just thought it was some workers on the roof doing something. But then it stopped, and a few minutes later, hit harder, enough to make me look up and see that the whole ceiling was shaking, and out of phase with my cubicle walls. I didn't know what the heck it was...my first thought was that a small plane hit the building or something blew up, and I jumped up and ran out.
When I got home, I inspected for damage, and it looked like the house had shifted just a bit. The exterior is old cedar shingles that date back at least to the 1930's, and the spacing on some of them suddenly seemed uneven. And I noticed gaps in the paneling, uneven doorjambs, etc, that I hadn't noticed before. But, they could have been there all along...the house has been settling probably from the day it was first built in 1916, and it was added onto over the years in a haphazard way, and often on the cheap. So a lot of that stuff could have already been there, but the earthquake just made me notice it more.
The scary thing though, is that we had a hurricane come through the following week, and I was thinking crap...first the earthquake is going to weaken the house and now Irene is gonna take it down! But Irene, thankfully, was a dud. Although it did knock the power out at work, so I got a week's vacation out of it!
"The cavalcade of auto recalls this year quickly could be turning the safety notices into mere background noise ignored by car owners.
“If every recall is publicly covered, it is no longer an unusual event. The public will pay no attention,” says George Hoffer, transportation economist at the University of Richmond, who has studied the auto industry for more than 40 years."
yeah but there's nobody in Utah or NV for that matter. . I know, that doesn't explain ND though. No doubt, what we are actually seeing here is a complex mix of forces at work.
Someone should plot this map against things like rate of alcoholism, crime rate, state safety regulations, and see what pops up. Of course, even then if you see patterns, you have to separate correlation from causation.
One thing is for certain, it puts the lie to the Safety [non-permissible content removed]' prediction that highway carnage would increase exponentially when the asinine 55 NMSL was repealed...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Pennsylvania has high fatality rates and yet they require annual safety inspections. Must be a deer problem, but we'd be in the same boat here in the UP if that was so.
@Mr_Shiftright said:
yeah but there's nobody in Utah or NV for that matter. . I know, that doesn't explain ND though. No doubt, what we are actually seeing here is a complex mix of forces at work.
Actually, ND can be explained by all the oil work being done in the western part of the state. New employees have overwhelmed the road infrastructure, plus overworked and tired employees = more accidents.
"While GM was chided for not taking the appropriate measures, the harshest criticism fell on NHTSA for not holding itself to the same standard of accountability of those it regulates, according to the report.
According to the report's findings, the agency tends to deflect blame and "get bogged down" in specific issues. The report also said the NHTSA diverts staff from their normal responsibilities and collects a vast amount of data that is disjointed and not shared across the entire agency."
Pennsylvania has high fatality rates and yet they require annual safety inspections. Must be a deer problem, but we'd be in the same boat here in the UP if that was so.
>
While PA does have annual safety inspections, I don't think they're all that strict. When I bought my '79 5th Avenue, it was located at a little buy here, pay here lot in West VA, just south of Cumberland, Maryland. The seller said he would guarantee it to pass inspection in Virginia, West Virginia, or Pennsylvania, but in Maryland, I was on my own and good luck with that!
In Maryland, you only have to get a car inspected once, when you buy it used. But apparently our inspections are very thorough compared to other states. Still, I remember my 5th Ave only needing about $200 to get it through inspection.
While keeping your car safe is, obviously, a good thing, I think things like inattentive driving, going too fast for conditions, alcoholism, poor lighting conditions, roads that are mountainous, narrow, poor visibility, potholed, etc, and simply having everything spread out so you HAVE to do a lot of longer distance driving, are all greater contributors to fatality than a car that failed inspection.
Oh, one thing I just thought of...PA is the only state I've ever seen that has signs warning you to watch out for drunk drivers!
"The White House is likely to nominate within two weeks a permanent chief of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a senior administration official said on Friday.
It is unclear if Mr. Friedman is in the running for the permanent post. He has come under intense political pressure for the agency’s handling of the General Motors Co. ignition switch recall and the most recent recall of faulty air bags. The agency allowed some car makers to conduct safety campaigns to replace the parts instead of a formal recall."
A reporter is looking for a vehicle owner whose car is affected by the Takata airbag recall and is the second or third owner of that car. If this is you, please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than 5 p.m. PT Monday, 10/27/14.
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Why not save even more lives and lower the limit to 5 mph? The Safety [non-permissible content removed] married the Nanny State and set up housekeeping in NYC.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Why not save even more lives and lower the limit to 5 mph? The Safety [non-permissible content removed] married the Nanny State and set up housekeeping in NYC.
You're not thinking big enough ... blow up the bridges and dam the tunnels and don't allow any cars on Manhattan.
Then everyone can use the horse drawn carriages that have received so much press in the past few months. Or buses. Or the subway. Or feet.
Why not save even more lives and lower the limit to 5 mph? The Safety [non-permissible content removed] married the Nanny State and set up housekeeping in NYC.
And yet, I remember Consumer Reports, in one of their annual auto issues, stating that "No car built today can withstand a 35 mph impact into a solid barrier. Yet, the driver stands a very good chance of walking away, unharmed."
Guess which issue that was? April of 1984!! Back in the day when airbags were in their infancy, ABS was a plaything of the rich, and most small cars (and even a lot of bigger ones) could easily crumple like a tin can.
Cars have come a LONG way since 1984. Death rates are down, from something like 2.57 per 100M miles traveled to 1.13 (2012, source Wikipedia). But, the roads will never be "safe" enough for many politicians and special interest groups, who stand to profit from scaremongering, increased revenue from speeding tickets, and so on.
"The nation’s new top auto safety official delivered a frank message to carmakers at the Detroit auto show on Monday, demanding that recalls be aggressive, pre-emptive and aim to fix every vehicle they affect.
...and enforcement will be just like the airlines where violation fines go to the government treasury and the consumer doesn't get squat for their problems and impacts!
"While the driver and passengers probably enjoy the lack of noise, it's a danger for pedestrians who are walking close to these vehicles, experts say. The lack of familiar engine sounds jeopardizes the safety of blind and visually impaired pedestrians, as well as bicyclists, runners, small children, the elderly and anyone else who's on foot but generally not paying attention."
It should be the "danger of not paying attention". But if we can decrease personal responsibility even more, why not? Thanks a lot, bleeding hearts, your legacy won't be forgotten.
Actually carnage does increase with speed---not necessarily in the frequency, but (obviously) in the severity.
Airplanes create a lot of carnage when they crash (possibly due to their high speeds of air travel), but still, they are considered a safer way to travel than the automobile by experts and statisticians. They go a lot faster than cars.
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
If lowering deaths is good, reaching "zero" must be great, right? Therefore, enact 0 MPH speed limits for vehicles! Effectively, banning the automobile, then these political idiots will have reached their true goal, which is either banning automobiles, or reducing automobile related deaths to zero. I bet pedestrian and cyclist deaths would rise though
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Difficult not to blow a fuel line or tank in the wing in aircraft crashes. You should expect much better accident rates in commercial aviation - professional pilots and controllers, also less randomness in the system compared to driving on the road.
Fin - in NYC everything is hyperbole. Even more so than in LA. Boston did get clobbered. I suspect a similar event in Chicago would get far less coverage, and in Denver possibly none. They are not on the coasts!
"This is a huge improvement in just three years, even considering the economy's influence," said David Zuby, the Institute's executive vice president and chief research officer. "We know from our vehicle-ratings program that crash-test performance has been getting steadily better. These latest death rates provide new confirmation that real-world outcomes are improving, too."
Improved vehicle designs and safety technology are big contributors to the decline in fatality risk."
Difficult not to blow a fuel line or tank in the wing in aircraft crashes. You should expect much better accident rates in commercial aviation - professional pilots and controllers, also less randomness in the system compared to driving on the road.
I think for the most part the biggest complaint is for limited access highways where random events are rare. Of course, equipment failures would probably be less common if people did a checklist inspection of their vehicles before every time they operated it.
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"In a letter [PDF] to NTHSA, our colleagues and the advocacy arm of Consumer Reports, Consumers Union raises concerns about the most recent recall and whether the measures NHTSA and manufactures take to ensure that recall remedies fully address defects are efficient.
The fact that the latest recall is the fourth for this particular set of vehicles raises concerns for the advocates that NHTSA and manufacturers are unable to ensure that a prescribed remedy can fully address a safety defect in the first place."
"Automakers recalled nearly 64 million cars and trucks in 803 recalls in 2014, more than double the previous record set in 2004, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
The grim safety record includes high-profile recalls to fix defective General Motors ignition switches and faulty Takata airbags that could explode, shooting shrapnel at vehicle occupants. The GM ignition switches have been linked to 52 deaths in the U.S. at this point. Takata airbag inflator ruptures are responsible for four U.S. deaths."
"Automakers recalled nearly 64 million cars and trucks in 803 recalls in 2014, more than double the previous record set in 2004, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
The grim safety record includes high-profile recalls to fix defective General Motors ignition switches and faulty Takata airbags that could explode, shooting shrapnel at vehicle occupants. The GM ignition switches have been linked to 52 deaths in the U.S. at this point. Takata airbag inflator ruptures are responsible for four U.S. deaths."
All of these defects, malfunctions, and recalls serve to reinforce the fact that the best safety feature a car has is its driver. Avoiding wrecks in the first place makes all the safety features irrelevant and unused. I have yet to use an airbag or have one go off in my presence, and they've been around a long time (even the Neon had them).
Accident avoidance is a much better policy than post-accident safety measures.
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
I love keyless go in my car, very convenient. MB hasn't used a physical key in US market cars for a long time, since maybe 1996 or so, when they switched to an electronic fob that is inserted like a key.
After we drove the Prius V last week, we were sitting in the car checking stuff out. I had the driver's door open and was chatting with the sales guy standing a few feet away. I put my foot on a pedal (the brake iirc) and the car started. The keys were still in the console, but the behavior wasn't expected, since I had pushed the button to turn the car off off. Must have been the Stop-Start system?
Just think, I could have plowed right into the showroom and made the SUA news; getting to be the right age, right?
I read an article the other day, on what to do if you're in your car and get caught in a tornado. Almost since the dawn of time, they always told you that if you can't get out of its path, to get out of the car, get as far away from it as possible, and go lie face-down in a ditch or even low spot on the ground. Inside a car was about the very worst place you could get caught in a tornado.
However, nowadays, the info is different. This article said to stay inside the car if you can't find good cover, duck down as low as possible, and keep the engine running so the airbags will activate as needed.
So, while not 100% safe, I guess that's an indication that cars are getting safer.
Huh, I was just thinking about that (lots of relatives live down in tornado country). I was assuming heading for the ditch was still the preference, even though I always wondered about all that flying debris.
I would imagine a good, deep ditch is still best. But, they used to say get out of the car at all costs, where now they at least offer it as an option.
Guess I'll just try to find a nice ditch to drive the car into. Scary things (although I managed to nap through one that killed 4 people a few miles away when I was a teen). My niece's house got hit a couple of years ago in Chattanooga (mostly shingle damage) and my nephew came out unscathed up in Nashville about 6 or 8 years ago but half his block was flattened. At least you usually get some warning, unlike earthquakes.
I actually skirted around a funnel cloud back in 1999, while delivering pizzas. Came over a hill during a serious downpour, and suddenly the rain cleared up, and I could see this cloud groping down in front of me. But I figured what the hey, kept going, and when I got to my destination, I was on the other side of it! Damn thing was closer than I had thought! The people I was making the delivery to were out on their back deck, videotaping it. Fortunately this one didn't touch down, and the tornadoes out here in Maryland are usually pretty mild, and not that common. Or, so we thought, until late 2002 when one hit at the University of Maryland, and killed a couple people. I think they were in their cars. You can still see some big trees that are down, in the forests, from that storm. Then there was the F5 that roared through LaPlata in early 2013. Less than 20 miles from my Mom and Stepdad's house. And heck, probably only a mile, or less, from where I attended 4th grade!
You haven't lived until you're driving during an earthquake, feeling your car bounce up and down on its suspension while you watch the lamp posts around you dance in the streets to the tune of "Eve of Destruction".
Had my share of those too, but never while driving. The nice thing about the UP is that there's really not much in the way of natural disasters up here.
Of course, it is snowing outside my window as I type this.
I can still vividly remember here in the DC area, the Great Earthquake of 2011...
All kidding aside, it was pretty intense where the epicenter was, Culpeper Va, I think. And the Washington Monument is STILL closed as a result of it. I remember sitting in my office when it happened. At first there was a rumble and vibration that I didn't pay much attention to...just thought it was some workers on the roof doing something. But then it stopped, and a few minutes later, hit harder, enough to make me look up and see that the whole ceiling was shaking, and out of phase with my cubicle walls. I didn't know what the heck it was...my first thought was that a small plane hit the building or something blew up, and I jumped up and ran out.
When I got home, I inspected for damage, and it looked like the house had shifted just a bit. The exterior is old cedar shingles that date back at least to the 1930's, and the spacing on some of them suddenly seemed uneven. And I noticed gaps in the paneling, uneven doorjambs, etc, that I hadn't noticed before. But, they could have been there all along...the house has been settling probably from the day it was first built in 1916, and it was added onto over the years in a haphazard way, and often on the cheap. So a lot of that stuff could have already been there, but the earthquake just made me notice it more.
The scary thing though, is that we had a hurricane come through the following week, and I was thinking crap...first the earthquake is going to weaken the house and now Irene is gonna take it down! But Irene, thankfully, was a dud. Although it did knock the power out at work, so I got a week's vacation out of it!
"Here's an unsettling fact about cars equipped with air bags: they don't always deploy when drivers — or regulators — expect them to."
GM recall reveals gaps in air bag knowledge (adn.com)
"Pack your own chute."
Ford is offering its patented inflatable seatbelt technology to other companies and industries.
Ford Pushes for Wider Adoption of Inflatable Seatbelts
"The cavalcade of auto recalls this year quickly could be turning the safety notices into mere background noise ignored by car owners.
“If every recall is publicly covered, it is no longer an unusual event. The public will pay no attention,” says George Hoffer, transportation economist at the University of Richmond, who has studied the auto industry for more than 40 years."
Auto recalls becoming 'background noise' that owners ignore (Detroit Free Press)
Study Reveals Safest and Most Dangerous Places To Drive in U.S.
Looks like it's those Wide Open Spaces is the problem, for the most part, and for others very high crime rates???(TN, LA, MS).
Except Utah ... and, they have stretches of I-15 that are marked as 80MPH speed limit.
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yeah but there's nobody in Utah or NV for that matter.
. I know, that doesn't explain ND though. No doubt, what we are actually seeing here is a complex mix of forces at work.
Someone should plot this map against things like rate of alcoholism, crime rate, state safety regulations, and see what pops up. Of course, even then if you see patterns, you have to separate correlation from causation.
One thing is for certain, it puts the lie to the Safety [non-permissible content removed]' prediction that highway carnage would increase exponentially when the asinine 55 NMSL was repealed...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Pennsylvania has high fatality rates and yet they require annual safety inspections. Must be a deer problem, but we'd be in the same boat here in the UP if that was so.
it's the differential between speeds that causes the most accidents.
Still the prospect of most Americans driving as fast as Europeans is scary.
Actually, ND can be explained by all the oil work being done in the western part of the state. New employees have overwhelmed the road infrastructure, plus overworked and tired employees = more accidents.
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Driving Safely in Sudden Extreme Conditions
and, following in GM's footsteps:
Chrysler Sets Up New Vehicle Safety Office
Actually carnage does increase with speed---not necessarily in the frequency, but (obviously) in the severity.
According to the report's findings, the agency tends to deflect blame and "get bogged down" in specific issues. The report also said the NHTSA diverts staff from their normal responsibilities and collects a vast amount of data that is disjointed and not shared across the entire agency."
NHTSA Failed to Spot GM Ignition Switch Issue in 2007 (nasdaq.com)
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
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Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Well, > @stever said:
>
While PA does have annual safety inspections, I don't think they're all that strict. When I bought my '79 5th Avenue, it was located at a little buy here, pay here lot in West VA, just south of Cumberland, Maryland. The seller said he would guarantee it to pass inspection in Virginia, West Virginia, or Pennsylvania, but in Maryland, I was on my own and good luck with that!
In Maryland, you only have to get a car inspected once, when you buy it used. But apparently our inspections are very thorough compared to other states. Still, I remember my 5th Ave only needing about $200 to get it through inspection.
While keeping your car safe is, obviously, a good thing, I think things like inattentive driving, going too fast for conditions, alcoholism, poor lighting conditions, roads that are mountainous, narrow, poor visibility, potholed, etc, and simply having everything spread out so you HAVE to do a lot of longer distance driving, are all greater contributors to fatality than a car that failed inspection.
Oh, one thing I just thought of...PA is the only state I've ever seen that has signs warning you to watch out for drunk drivers!
It is unclear if Mr. Friedman is in the running for the permanent post. He has come under intense political pressure for the agency’s handling of the General Motors Co. ignition switch recall and the most recent recall of faulty air bags. The agency allowed some car makers to conduct safety campaigns to replace the parts instead of a formal recall."
U.S. Close to Naming New Auto-Safety Chief (WSJ - free link at time of posting)
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Mayor Bill de Blasio reduced the limit from 35 mph as part of his “Vision Zero” plan to eliminate traffic deaths.
The survival rate of an accident at 25 mph is much higher than at 35 mph, according to the mayor."
New York City Speed Limit Slows Down to 25 Mph (theepochtimes.com)
The Safety [non-permissible content removed] married the Nanny State and set up housekeeping in NYC.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
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Then everyone can use the horse drawn carriages that have received so much press in the past few months. Or buses. Or the subway. Or feet.
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Guess which issue that was? April of 1984!! Back in the day when airbags were in their infancy, ABS was a plaything of the rich, and most small cars (and even a lot of bigger ones) could easily crumple like a tin can.
Cars have come a LONG way since 1984. Death rates are down, from something like 2.57 per 100M miles traveled to 1.13 (2012, source Wikipedia). But, the roads will never be "safe" enough for many politicians and special interest groups, who stand to profit from scaremongering, increased revenue from speeding tickets, and so on.
"Mayor Bill de Blasio wants to ban carriage horses and replace them with vintage-looking electric cars." (CBS NY)
Safety Chief Pressures Carmakers on Recalls (NY Times)
The Danger of Too-Quiet Cars
Improved vehicle designs and safety technology are big contributors to the decline in fatality risk."
Driver Death Rates Fall More Than a Third in Three Years, Study Says
The fact that the latest recall is the fourth for this particular set of vehicles raises concerns for the advocates that NHTSA and manufacturers are unable to ensure that a prescribed remedy can fully address a safety defect in the first place."
Advocates Push NHTSA For Answers Regarding Airbag Recall, Remedy Effectiveness (Consumerist)
The grim safety record includes high-profile recalls to fix defective General Motors ignition switches and faulty Takata airbags that could explode, shooting shrapnel at vehicle occupants. The GM ignition switches have been linked to 52 deaths in the U.S. at this point. Takata airbag inflator ruptures are responsible for four U.S. deaths."
U.S. Auto Recall Tally: Nearly 64 Million Vehicles in 2014
Accident avoidance is a much better policy than post-accident safety measures.