Lincoln LS

1179180182184185299

Comments

  • akonikuaakonikua Member Posts: 10
    Brian, do you work on cars regularly? I am someone with no experience in this area...but I can follow directions. I see the benefit of installing it yourself...but with no experience??? Also, I have two subwoofers and a fosgate amp. Since the battery is in the trunk and another stock amp is mounted in the trunk too...is it possible to install my subs by just splicing the stock amps wires and running them to my amp? (I am trying to avoid running wires from the head to the trunk.) thanks
  • ronniepoohronniepooh Member Posts: 339
    Last question Brian, 'cuz I know you are probably writing up a full report on installation. Any drilling into the body required to install the side skirts? Added factory //M3 skirts to my previous BMW 3 series, and had to drill about 24 holes total. Not too difficult, but tedious work.h
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    If you can follow directions and have some mechanical ability it isn't hard to do. You can go to the CDC website at http://www.classic-designconcepts.com/tech_center/ls_e.html


    These are the directions without the pictures. That way you can gauge whether you want to tackle it. It's fairly easy to remove the front bumper cover, just 2 bolts on either fender and six screws underneath, then slide out and disconnect the fog lights. You'll get a chuckle out of what I call the "boogie board" material used for the 5mph impact protection. It's actually called engineered expanded polystyrofoam.


    The side skirts do not require drilling. They attach in the stock locations as the black stuff that's down there now.


    It does help to have a helper though, since someone should help hold the side rockers off the ground when you install it.


    There is nothing on the kit that really requires drilling. It's a very well engineered kit. Remember that CDC specializes in making kits like this for dealer add-ons so they keep the connecting points identical to stock.


    Brian

  • akonikuaakonikua Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for your advice Brian! Can't wait to see the finished product.
  • babyloubabylou Member Posts: 31
    Dudes, every double wishbone rear suspension auto I can think of has anti-dive and anti-squat geometry. This is not new tech.

    akirby,

    I have done more than look at an LS suspension. I have completely removed one. So don't get all cocky with me. Unless you studied automotive engineering, like some of us, but from your comments it shows you are not.

    The newest Civic still has double wishbones in the rear but they have replaced the front double wishbones with a strut/wishbone setup.

    Don't take my comments as implying that there is something wrong with the LS suspension or the Civic is all that. From a performance point of view nothing is better than double wishbones front and back. However, don't get to thinking that the LS suspension is way better than the competition based off of some marketing spins. Many other cars use double wishbones front and rear with anti-dive and anti-squat geometry. And probably 70% of expensive cars now use aluminum suspension links.

    This LS suspension hype reminds me of when the G35 first came out how everyone said that it was a leap forward in tech because it had the FM (front mid engine) platform. I stated that other cars have been doing this for years (in fact with the engine even closer to the axis of rotation) they just did not coin it and hype it. When challenged I mentioned the S2000, Corvette and others and the hype has died.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    I guess it's exotic for an American car.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think you're the one being cocky here, not me. Are we supposed to be impressed that you've studied automotive engineering? Sorry.

    Since sophisticated is such a subjective term it's pointless to argue about it. While it may be true that all double wishbone suspensions have some anti-dive/anti-squat capabilities I believe the LS takes this to a higher level. Have you ever done a 60-0 panic stop in a LS? Have you ever seen one and compared it to other sports sedans? I have and it FEELS and LOOKS to me like the LS stays almost perfectly flat while the competition dives at least a couple of inches. A stock Civic probably dives 4-5 inches. It's almost scary how level it stays. That's not hype - it's performance. If you don't believe me go drive a LS and try it.

    Just out of curiousity - what would you consider MORE sophisticated than an all-aluminum, double wishbone front and rear suspension? I'm just trying to understand your yardstick for these things.
  • babyloubabylou Member Posts: 31
    akirby,

    As I said I like the LS, its suspension and know of other cars with similar suspension. You think it has the most sophisticated suspension ever conjured up. Great! Now lets move on with our lives.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    ahhhh, babylou . . . I think it was you that dragged the Civic into this discussion by diminishing the unique stature of the LS by stating the Civic also had the double wishbone set-up and was on par in design with the LS. While the Civic does share the double wishbone layout, I really doubt that it has an all aluminum construction like the LS, nor, as Akirby stated, is it as well executed from an automotive engineering design standpoint in terms of ride and handling. Note that the BMW 5 series (an LS competitor) does not share a double wishbone front suspension set-up. In terms of sophistication in suspension design on mass produced street cars, double wishbone is as sophisticated as it gets . . . and some are definitely more sophisticated than others (cheap stampings vs. cast (aluminum) vs machined forgings). You yourself stated that some double wishbone designs are more compact than others.

    So what's your point babylou? . . . please enlighten us poor, dimwitted folks here with your vast knowledge, and save us the hyperbole about your engineering degree.

    Also, with regard to your comment about the "heft" of the LS, it was recently shown on this board to be very similar to it's most direct competitors.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I agree - let's move on. I never implied that the LS has the best ever made or that there weren't other vehicles with just as sophisticated suspensions. But you implied that there wasn't anything special about it and it was no better than a Honda Civic, which is simply not true.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    babylou never claimed to have a degree, only that he had "studied automotive engineering." Myself, I have studied astrophysics, but I am not an astrophysicist.

    He also "completely removed (an LS suspension.)" No mention of replacing it though. Perhaps he works at a boneyard?

    BTW, babylou, can you enlighten us with the names of a couple of cars whose suspension is as sophisticated as the LS and does not dive and squat under acc/deceleration please? Oh and below $40,000. I'd like to drive one myself.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Guys - just let it go. It's not worth it. I smell another I6/V6 debate and I would rather not go there.
    I think we made our point.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    agreed
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Agreed.

    On another topic, no my windows didn't fall. Never have. Never will now (finger's crossed) as my service dept agreed to replace both rear window regulators when I brought Red in for service on Tues. She's now ready and I'm waiting for a shuttle to pick me up to go get her. Guess I can't complain too much about my dealer's service.

    George
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,620
    I was coming back from Tucson the other night a few weeks ago with my sleeping U of A student son beside me when, just past Florence, I saw a few signs that indicated some sort of military activity ahead. No indication as to where, or any speed limits.

    Six miles later I saw in my headlights (not Xenon, I might add) a person standing in the highway (where the posted speed limit was 55) holding a Stop sign. I came from the 55 (or so) to dead stopped in very short order. He didn't have the faith I did in the LS suspension/brake system, so ran out of the road. I was at a dead halt 20 feet from where he was standing, and much more worried about the car behind me than hitting him.

    My only regret in this is that I woke my son, who was recovering from his sleep deprivation, fairly common in college.

    The car stopped level, straight and short. No magazine photographers were present to document how it compares to the other 10.

    More's the pity.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • lateralglateralg Member Posts: 929
    This part of SE Michigan is a favorite place for one-day road trips by the auto manufacturers.

    About an hour ago, two black LS's passed me going in the opposite direction. They were clearly LS's, and in the few seconds I had to observe, they registered as being different from those in my memory.

    The only specific I can provide is that the lead car had its headlights on, and I would bet a lot of money that they were HID.
  • babickababicka Member Posts: 60
    From LS dealer Front Line magazine I quote

    "The newly patented rear suspension has high-anti-lift geometry (115%) to promote rear-end squat when braking".."both ends of the car move towards the road under braking giving the driver the secure sensation of moving downward rather than being pitched forward".

    If the design is as common and not unique as the Civic why did LM do the patent?
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    The LS and Civic may have similar suspensions but they are not the same. The Civic does not have the engineered rear link that provides slight rear wheel steering under cornering load that the LS has.

    It's like saying all McPherson strut systems are equal because they are McPherson strut systems. Comparing the M5 strut system to a Mercury Capri strut system is still like comparing apples to oranges.
  • ronniepoohronniepooh Member Posts: 339
    Current model Honda Accord V6 Coupe was cruising alongside me on Route 29 in Silver Spring,MD today. Accord had to brake HARD to avoid rear ending someone who suddenly flew into his lane..not certain what kind of suspension is on the back of Accord coupes, but this thing brake dove like you would not believe. What tha? Front end dipped down at least 4-5 inches.
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    That's probably also because both the Civic and the Accord are front drivers with most of the weight on the front axle more than the suspension though.
  • dbossmandbossman Member Posts: 28
    Anyone seen the 11 car shootout (C&D I think) on the newstands recently? The LS came in 11th! Just one more notch and the LS will be in the Top 10!

    I have thoroughly enjoyed my '00 LS V8 and don't know what I'll do when my lease is up in about 60 days. Its depressing that LM has allowed something with so much potential to fall to the back of the crowd.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    Why get down over some car rag's review/comparison test? If you have so thoroughly enjoyed your '00 LS, and your lease is up, why would you not return for another? Granted the '03 won't be out for another 6 months or so, but the deals on the LS sound pretty good. While depreciation may be greater, it's not that much greater that you put yourself at significant financial disadvantage. Whatever you do, get something YOU like and enjoy, and not something that the car rags are enamored with this month. Next month, the car rags will love something else. I don't really agree with you, though, when you say theat LM has allowed the LS to "fall to the back of the crowd." IMNSHO, the LS still represents the best value in it's class and is a great performer my any measure.
  • airwolf1000airwolf1000 Member Posts: 225
    Easy Cobra! Easy! There is one LS Owner on hear that has a 91-94 model Capri... These are the ones with the Struts. Its not no M5 but it does handle well. Too bad its front wheel drive. It can't be that bad after all since it practically is a Miata (FWD though). We do see a lot of Miatas autocrossing and they do handle well...

    Just had to give you a hard time brian. I concur though... Anybody comparing the LS to a CIVIC likes peacepipes a little too much..

    Putting on my SNELL SA2000 helmet on now. Yikes I don't have one crap!

    Regards,
    Airwolf
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Member Posts: 539
    chevytruck_fan "The Return of GM's might" Jun 14, 2002 8:17am
    This link has something on the GM 5 speed automatic that I came up with. Not based on anything real though.
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Member Posts: 593
    In yesterday's newspaper, one of the L-M dealers was advertising 2002 LSs for $29,995! I'm sure that it's a "no option" V-6, but still and all, that's a really good deal.
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    Wolfie,

    I actually meant the older Capris :) I had a 1979 Turbo Capri that was very heavily modified but the strut suspension was to nicely put it, yucky. One slight imperfection on the road and you'd bounce sideways.

    Ahhh, the silly things you do when you're young and don't care about things like ride quality! Oh wait, I still do silly things! :D

    Brian
  • drolds1drolds1 Member Posts: 247
    It looks like they're going to have to do that, as the base CTS is advertised at that price.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    You should be able to extend your lease, even month by month. Then you can check out the 2003 LS for price, etc.
  • babyloubabylou Member Posts: 31
    Like most everyone here I have read the R&T super comparo and was a bit suprised that the LS came in last. After thinking about this for a few days I made my own fantasy test scoring the smae way as R&T but compared the LS against cars of its own size (G35, CTS, E430, 530). Though I did not agree with all of the subjective scores I carried over all of the same scores in the mag that I could and then made guesses as to what the scribes have used for subjective ratings on the new cars (530, E430) and used previous R&T tests for the performance scores.

    Guess what? The placement was G35, CTS, LS, 530, E430. Isn't that funny, when you compare the same priced LS (and CTS for that matter) to larger and more expensive cars it rates higher. Does that mean the cheaper and smaller a car is the better it is?

    Oh, and yes I am a degreed engineer and the reason I yanked an LS rear suspension is because someone at my company totaled his and we yanked it thinking it would be good for a street rod.
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    babylou has a point. Why haven't magazines gotten past the price point deal and done comparison tests based on size and weight parameters? Granted when you do a test this way the CTS and LS come out ahead for price, and as babylou pointed out, probably in performance as well. If LLSOC had enough resources we'd engage in a test like this. Ahhh, who am I kidding, no one would believe us anyway if we didn't rank either all of the European or Japanese makes ahead of the American makes.
  • noshonosho Member Posts: 119
    Yes, smaller cars (read lighter in weight) tend to be "better." They accelerate faster, turn quicker, generally corner faster... all the things a sports car/sedan is expected to do well.

    As an example, in the June R&T, the $35K 122bhp Lotus Elise beat all of the high powered sports cars on a race track. But then it weighs only 1900 lbs.
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    are much easier to toss around (provided they are reasonably well balanced). This is even more true for those with short wheelbases, as they have a more "nimble" feel and have smaller turning radii. It's far easier to "toss around" a 3000 lb car than a 3700 lb car . . . momentum REALLY comes into play.

    Acceleration has more to do with horsepower to weight ratio, though, torque, and the nature of the torque curve and weight are more telling (it's just harder to quantify . . . hence the reason for hp/lbs reference). Generally speaking, the horsepower to weight ratio favors smaller cars; and, for mass produced cars, smaller cars also tend to be more affordable and have a broader market appeal. Easy to see why there are so many more small "performance" cars than mid to large size "performance" cars.
  • jerry2281jerry2281 Member Posts: 97
    If you are leased with Ford Motor Credit, they will extend lease at same monthly payments for up to six months if your reason is that "I am waiting until the 2003 LS is released". Having seen the 2003 LS at Mania III, it would be a hard decision with the 2002 deals advertised. Lease extension worked for me on my Explorer. I am waiting for the 2003 Explorer.
  • jerry2281jerry2281 Member Posts: 97
    I just happened on the 2003 Canadian Thunderbird Specs. Verrry Interesting!

    "Improved 3.9L 32V DOHC 8-cylinder aluminum V8 engine with variable cam timing ((!!!)) and electronic throttle control for improved engine performance, power, torque and fuel economy. 274 HP @ 6000 rpm (SAE) AND 270 LBS of troque @ 4000 rpm. Select-shift transmission (SST) now optional. All-speed traction control. Newly- styled analog instrument cluster including tachometer. Improved cloth sunvisor with covered vanity mirror."
  • babyloubabylou Member Posts: 31
    Only 274 hp. Dang, I was hoping they would just commonize with Jag and use the 300 hp 4.2 liter. Oh well, I have heard rumblings that the LS will lose about 100 lbs of flab. I will take less flab and 274 hp over 300 hp and the same mass any day. Less weight improves acceleration, handling, braking, fuel efficiency and emmissions.
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    Hmmm... That means if I lose weight I'd walk faster, turn corners without running into the opposite wall, stop before bumping the person in front of me, eat out cheaper, and... we won't even go into the emissions part!
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    Less is better, but what are you willing to give up? It's still a luxury car, and that's at least part of why we bought it. If they can shed weight by some clever engineering, lighter materials of equal strength, great. Personally, I'm not willing to give up one iota of the quiet, smoothness, and comfort I enjoy every moment the car is on the road for a tiny improvement in performance. I autocross my LS; also spend 2 hours a day commuting.

    Brian, you forgot "ease of parking". :)
  • lobsenzalobsenza Member Posts: 619
    Weight also helps in the event of an accident. There is no getting around the laws of physics.
  • lateralglateralg Member Posts: 929
    With VVT, it will feel like a larger increase than the peak HP increase. Why? VVT provides a greater % HP increase at lower RPM than the % increase of peak HP ... I think.
  • slunarslunar Member Posts: 479
    Well, the improvement VVT adds will be at the opposite end of the RPM range where the non VVT engine is optimized.

    From what I have found on the internet the 2003 LS-V8 will have 2 step VVT, similar to the original Jag 4.0. The updated Jag 4.2 has infinately variable valve timing.

    So, if the present 3.9L is optimized at 4500 RPM, where its torque peak is, then one could expect the 2nd step of the VVT to provide similar performance at 4000 - 6000 RPM. The 1st step of the VVT would then be optimized at a much lower RPM, lets say, 1500 - 2500 RPM.

    Thus we could expect a lot more torque at lower RPMS than the present 3.9 V-8. Since the present 3.9 has about 220 ft lb at 1500 RPM, 240 ft lb at 2000 RPM and it actually dips to about 230 ft lb at 3000 RPM, then VVT should get rid of the 3000 RPM dip and deliver a lot more bottom end and just plain feel stronger as the RPMs build.

    If those #'s are correct there isn't much of a difference in peak torque. 270 ft lb vs 267 ft lb on the 00 (4500 RPM) & 01 LS and 262 ft lb, on the 02 LS. Since I imaging few of us spend a lot of time at the torque peak RPM of 4500, the name of the game is broadening the torque band.
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    Here are a couple of views of the LLSOC project car with the CDC body kit installed.

    image

    image
  • rec3rec3 Member Posts: 22
    I have found that my LS V8 is more responsive when I keep the transmission selector in D4 instead of D5. There seems to be less hesitation to accelerate, and I use D5 only for interstates or similar higher speed roads.

    I know this is not much of a news flash, but I do not recall this subject being discussed here.
  • lateralglateralg Member Posts: 929
    Seriously cool!
  • cb44cb44 Member Posts: 87
    Brian,

    Car looks great (especially in the Southern Cal sun)!
  • slunarslunar Member Posts: 479
    rec3, well the RPM's are higher in 4th than 5th
    so you're farther up the torque curve, making the engine feel a lot more responsive.

    I do a lot of driving on country back roads where you are typically going 40 - 60 MPH. I use 4th most of the time as it bumps the RPM high enough get rid of the 1700 RPM cam chain whine and as you noted the LS is a lot more responsive.

    I have not seen any significant difference in gas mileage in 4th vs. 5th at these speeds again leading me to conclude that the 3.9L V-8 was optimized for 65 - 70 MPH in 5th gear (2000-2200) RPM to get the EPA highway mileage as high as possible.

    I can't wait to test drive a 2003 with VVT and see how it feels.
  • socal_stevesocal_steve Member Posts: 11
    Ford to Cut 980 Jobs at Lincoln Auto Plant, Free Press Reports
    By Alex Armitage

    Dearborn, Michigan, June 15 (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co. will cut 980 jobs as the automaker eliminates a shift at a Michigan plant that makes Lincoln automobiles, the Detroit-Free Press reported, without citing anyone.

    The shift at the Wixom, Michigan, plant produces the Lincoln Town Car, Continental and LS, the paper said. The facility, which employs 3,875 workers, has two shifts that make the Lincoln products and two that produce the Thunderbird. No Thunderbird shifts will be cut.

    Wixom is one of 18 Ford plants that is cutting jobs or being closed as part of a plan announced in January, the Detroit-Free Press said.

    The Lincoln Continental, a luxury car, is being phased out, the paper said. The shift will be cut Sept. 9.

    ps. Hope this does not affect quality for the the 2003 production run.
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    I'm with you guys; D4 is especially useful in town, saves riding the brakes to keep speed from creeping up. Last year I used it on a long stretch of hilly interstate in Arizona in very hot weather, running 70-75 mph. I know, an old-fashioned notion that it was easier on the engine to keep the revs up a little while running the A/C under those conditions. The gas mileage difference was barely noticeable, well within "margin of error". My uneducated opinion is that this car could have a lower rear end for better low end punch without much of an economy penalty. But I know the engineers had to use every tool at their disposal to squeak the LS through EPA certification without being hit with the gas guzzler tax.

    The down side of using D4 in town is when I forget to shift it to D5 when I get out on the open road. The engine is so smooth and effortless that I've driven 20 miles or more at 70+ in 4th gear without noticing it, till I happen to glance at the tach.:)
  • slunarslunar Member Posts: 479
    scott: , I'd say when I checked the back road mileage in D4 vs D5 it was within a tenth or two and yes several times I've put on quite a few highway miles before I realized I was in D4, a testiment to the exceptionally quiet and smooth 3.8 V-8.

    When my LS was new I had quite a bit of lifter noise. The lifter noise gradually went away. Since it tuned 10K (a long time ago) the lifter noise has faded away.

    Actually D4 & D5 are pretty close together in ratios in the 2000 & 2001 models with a .75 D5 OD ratio.

    When they finally changed the OD to .71 for the 02 model I was hoping that the rear end would change to 3.58 for the V-8 as .71 * 3.58 = 2.54:1 verses .75 * 3.31 = 2.48 which would give pretty similar D5 final drive ratios. But I guess that Ford is struggling for every hundreth of a MPG that they can get.

    We can only hope that the 03 VVT improves mileage enough that they could put the 3.58 rear end in the V-8 (& how about 3.77:1 with the V-6) which should make it a real screamer with the improved engine.

    Also looking forward to testing the 03 LS with the new trannie ratios.
  • slunarslunar Member Posts: 479
    Just checked out Edmunds "Future Vehicles" section. There is nothing on the 2003 LS.
  • mdurdenmdurden Member Posts: 1
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    2002 Lincoln LS 4DR SDN MSRP: Contact Us


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    Body Style: V8
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