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Comments
Once I test drove an LS however, there was simply no question that was the way I wanted to go. You can compare features and options all day long, but an ES300 will never handle like a well balanced performance suspension RWD vehicle like the LS. There's also something about a V8 engine...
As fine a vehicle as I believe the ES300 is, I can't imagine it providing the excitement I feel when I drive my LS.
Not that we wouldn't like some of the convenience features...
I had a 1977 T/A Firebird. Bought it new, and kept it until last year. Fast car, cornered well, seats weren't too comfortable, however. My main dislike, though, was the lack of structural integrity. My 1996 Z-28 is a far "tighter", and more comfortable car.
When I think of the LS and the Camaro, I compare them to a surgeons's scalpel and a Hudson Bay ax. They both cut well, but one does it with brute force, and the other with finesse. The LS is the scalpel, and the Camaro is the ax.
The future looks quite bright for the LS. The only thing that could dampen the experience would be bonehead FoMoCo corporate decisions.
Funkcity,out.
LLSOC member
But of course and march to that different "American" drummer. :-)
Thanks
On the entire trip (~500 miles of total driving), I only saw 2 LS's, the first had a retiree couple in it that looked about 70. The other I couldn't tell. However, when I started counting Town Cars, I quickly ran out of fingers and toes. I've never seen so many Town Cars (and Continentals too) in so small an area, since the last time I was on the Cape. The Orleans Stop & Shop parking lot had more Town Cars in it than the Wixom overflow lot during a shipment halt. After the Town Car & Continental, I'd say the Grand Marquis was the 3rd most popular car which was followed distantly by the Coupe DeVille. Mercedes, BMW's & Audis were rarities.
No wonder LM is having such conniptions attempting to break with "Lincoln Classic."
And it's an easy market. The buyers don't press LM for great technological changes every year. Most of those buyers don't want the latest do- dads anyway. A real comfortable market for both LM and the "classic" buyers.
I think if LM wanted to fill a marketing void, they would bring back the Continental on the DEW98 platform. You know the formula: longer, a little wider, plushier interior, real soft suspension settings. I think the gap between the LS and the TC is pretty large for some of the "conventional" buyers of LM cars.
That would free up the LS for a more "younger" orientation.
It looks like the older line LM cars are favorites of the New England "bluebloods".
Also my new Motor Trend had a face-off between the CTS, G35 and 330i. Very Interesting, and more conclusive than the C&D test.
I can't wait until the 03 LS V-8 gets into these comparos. I just hope they start testing it against a 5 series instead of that little Bimmer.
The bluebloods are down on the South shore, Chatam & Hyannis. I didn't get down that way this time, but when I have been in that area there are a lot more Mercedes, BMW's, etc. and fewer Lincolns.
IMHO the LS is FAR MORE luxurious, especially the interior which is where I suspect most car owners spend the majority of their time!
I remember sliding behind the wheel of an M3 and reaching for the steering wheel angle adjust knob to find that not only did the wheel not adjust telescopically, but it didn't even adjust vertically -- a feature found on many economy cars these days.
That such a marked lack of amenities could be considered "luxurious" defies comprehension. The LS is truly a balanced blend of both sport and luxury.
The LS and it's BMW counterparts (5 and in some cases 3 series) are sports sedans, which pocess a combination of luxury AND sport. The lenght of the amenities list alone does not a luxury car make. Trying to lump all BMW models into a catagory would be like lumping all Linoln models into a segment.
keyrow: The M3 is not considered "luxurious" by anyone and the model you slid behind without any steering wheel adjustments was evidently an early 90's model (pre-E36).
lsv8: Which BMW models have a "bone jarring" ride? Even the sports suspension option on the 5 series is far from the ride normally associated with classic sports cars. Also, up until this year, the 5 and 7 series interior features and look were virtually identical (aside from size).
Re: Amenities List, I concede that since I evaluated those cars during my test drives BMW has in the interim added various amenities to their product line -- but at that point in time they were deficient compared to the LS.
Hope this adds a little clarity.
Agree however that many would consider BMW a sports car, but it like the LS, is not in the "bone jarring" league of most true sports cars. But that is exactly the idea - a sports car with luxury amenities that make it more livable for daily driving.
Sounds like a plan to me. Maybe a stretch LS, a limited edition 6-speed, a convertible LS, a LS cross-trainer... This is a terrific idea and I hope Ford will continue to fund an expansion of the LS model. The LS has a great price point for the moving-on-uppers and an expanded model line would cement the commitment of Ford for the LS. ...and maybe some extra goodies for the regular LS.
Folks, remember a couple weeks ago we decided to ignore comments that are clearly designed to incite. Keep in mind that responses just encourage him ... and BTW ... you might want to add two and two together to see if you may have known this person in another lifetime?
Whatever, please let it go here -- write me off line if you want to.
Pat
Sedans Host
Also in the latest C&D (Aug 02) they test the new ES-300 and conclude that it is a nice luxury car for non car people who just want to get from point A to B in comfort, but it lacks any personality or sportyness that whould make it attractive to a car person.
Well Ford better get its rear end in gear real fast. DEW98 is now over 3 years old. If they started today to design a stretched DEW98 it would take 2-3 years to get the car into production, making it 6 years old. By then it's time to start over from the ground up with a new platform. As good as the LS & DEW is today it won't be that many more years before it's completely out of date and no longer competitive.
For a minimal amount of money Ford (Lincoln) could have and should have simply made a long wheel base LS, more front & rear seat room & more trunk room, a 2 door coupe version of the LS and a wagon version of the LS. All could have been done quickly with a minmal amount of money and provided Lincoln with some badly needed incremental sales.
Since then, I hardly EVER even see ANY advertising that focuses on the LS, and most of the LS ads I've seen are embarrassingly inappropriate for the type of vehicle the LS is. It reveals a marketing department that is clueless about what they are selling and who they are selling it to.
Not only is Lincoln NOT properly advertising the LS, but as mentioned above, they have apparently done NOTHING to expand that product into some other niches that could have gained a lot of leverage from the initial success and good design of the LS. It is really sickening to see such a wasted opportunity.
Amen.
This vehicle had huge promise when it was introduced. What it is now has yet to be determined.
I attended Mania I & had the pleasure of discussing our car with Rene (& others), and was so, so pumped up at the end of the weekend.
Unfortunately, not much has changed in the 16 months since then. We all want a better car. It's even more painful, given how good the original was.
Our direction is toward perfection?
Or not.
I just got back from the Cape myself... Chatam to be exact on Stage Harbor. The house was right on the harbor with a dock and my girlfriends friend had his boat. Went Fishing and thens Sailing on another friends boat.
Had a blast! I didn't see Lincolns, and the BMW's weren't to many, Lots of Mercedes and Porsches though...In Chatham at least. Was there for a week. The Hydrangeas are a little late blooming this year but there were some...
Have a happy and safe 4th. See you all back here soon..
Off again,
Airwolf1000
Also, heard they were offering $3000 dealer cash but haven't seen anything official on this.
Can anyone confirm that the dealer cash also exists?
Wow! What a bargain!
Here are the present incentives for the LS V-8. Note that I pulled this for my zip code, so there could be slightly different offeres in other places. ALso note that the LS V-6 appears to have the same incenteives. The LSE models also appear to be the same with the exeption that there is $3,500 cash back on leases.
Sounds like you get a total of $4,000 back ($4,500 for LSE) if you lease and turn in an existing Red Carpet lease.
Cash
Purchase $3,000.00 Customer Cash Back
Residency restrictions apply. Dealer participation may affect savings. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 09/30/2002.
-or-
Finance 0% APR for 36 months
$27.78 per month, per $1,000 financed with 10% down.
NOT ALL BUYERS WILL QUALIFY FOR LOWEST APR. SEE DEALER FOR QUALIFICATIONS.
Residency restrictions apply. Dealer participation may affect savings.
Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 09/30/2002.
-or-
Red Carpet Lease $3,000.00 Customer Cash Back
Residency restrictions apply. Dealer participation may affect savings. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 09/30/2002.
-and-
Lease
Renewal $1,000.00 Cash Back on Renewal
Customers terminating any new or used Lincoln Mercury Lease who Red Carpet Lease a new Lincoln Mercury vehicle are eligible for a lease renewal incentive. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 09/30/2002.
Anyone know whether there's dealer cash now that the rebate's in effect. If not, there were actually better incentives in place last month ($3,000 Dealer Cash plus 1.9% financing).
2002 LS APR
APR program on 2002 Lincoln LS
Start Date: 07/02/2002 End Date: 09/30/2002
Year Style Term
(Months) APR% Cash Allowances Find a Local Dealer
Customer Dealer
2002 Sport 4dr Sedan (3.9L 8cyl 5A) 12 - 60 0% $3000 NA Local Dealer
There seem to be several contradicting sites.
Before 9/11, they still had $3K or 0%/36, plus they made the first payment. That's another thousand on a 36 month loan.
There has generally been a promotion on these cars since the first model year.
What would really prove interesting would be car rags that compared vehicles based on typical selling prices rather than sticker price. Typical selling prices simply strengthen my perception that the LS may offer the greatest value out there.