A few A/C issues have started popping up on LLSOC forums...Might want to check them out if you are a member. Makes me paranoid--100 degrees and Humid in Dallas, I would not like my air to go out. Talk to the Service Manager and try to get him to Rectify your issues and to GIVE you a loaner, part of the Lincoln Commitment.... If you just go somewhere else they won't get any better. Then again you are a consumer and you shouldn't have to hassle at all.
Good Luck and keep us posted as to what the solution is..
Airwolf, send me details at chartron@aol. I know it's been a while. Won't be able to stay out too late as the next day is our annual move the daughter to another apartment in Austin ritual. Hopefully this move will be the last. I love the run to Austin as I get to blow the cob webs out on the way down. Ray
Being too lazy to scroll back and find the correct post on this board to the effect that the Cadillac CTS would make some sort of appearance at an upcoming auto race . . . I just got back from an 11-day vacation back east that included attending the 3 full days of events at the Cadillac Grand Prix in Washington DC. The weekend featured the American LeMans series, but also included Trans-AM, Speed World Challenge and Star Mazda (open wheel) racing. The racing was first rate with lots of action, passing, spins, wrecks, etc. Loads of fun.
However, there was virtually no trace of a Cadillac CTS at the event. The ONLY 1 CTS at the event was a static display on Sunday outside the Cadillac hospitality tent in the paddock area. The official race vehicles were the Escalade SUV and Escalade EXT pickup truck. The pace car was a Seville STS.
The only Cadillacs that raced were the 2 LMP900 class enterants, one of which had a mild crash and finished well off the pace, and the other managed a disappointing 4th place finish (well off the pace of the podium finishers).
Interesingly (to me anyway) was that these two cars were constantly backfiring all along the course (usually whenever the driver was changing gear). No other cars in any category behaved in this way. Cadillac should be quite embarassed by this showing in "their" race.
lolaj42: There has been no official announcement regarding Cadillac racing the CTS. The info came from Autoextremest.com, which has some pretty good GM connections.
The report was that Cadillac was going to drop its LMP900 racing program, which has been pretty much an embarassement. Ususally auto manufacturers tout their racing successes in advertisements, Cadillac put the cart before the horse and ran endless TV an print ads about their LMP900 race cars which have had a disimal racing record to put it politely. If Caddy had first spent their racing advertising budget on racing they may have had something to crow about by now.
As far as the CTS goes, the Autoextremest report was that for 2003 Caddy would be racing CTS's in the GT class (I think) competing with Porsche 911 and BMW 3xx production based cars. Personally I think they have a pretty good challenge ahead of them as unless they can get some rules concessions (like BMW did with their V-8 powered 3 series race cars they ran last year that never made it to the street) the rather large CTS will struggle against the smaller lighter competition.
In an aparent "Who's on first" episode, Lincoln has now published full information on the 2003 LS at the fordmedia.com web site. Originally this info was supposed to be secret until Aug 27, but now it looks like a last minute decision was made to release the '03 LS info. at the same time Ford relesed the information on all other 03 FoMoCo vehicles.
The good news is that it looks like Lincoln delivered on about 90% of what the majority of LS owners were looking for on the '03 LS, plus added a few slick things we never thought of.
The bad news is that it looks like the manual transmission is dead. Appears to me that the Lincoln's strategy is to emphasize the luxury aspects while retaining the great driving and handling characteristics of the LS and not try to compete head to head with Euro Sport Sedans.
I couldn't recall the specifics of the post that referred to Cadillac racing the CTS, but if it were to race in the ALMS series, it would have to be in the GT category. However, it could also run in the Speed World Challenge series, as BMW, Accura, Mazda, Lexus, and Honda (and other brands) race in this entertaining series.
I give Cadillac at least some credit for sponsoring this type of event. I only wish Lincoln would attempt to break into racing in some form to better tout the abilities/attributes of the LS.
It was also interesting to note that, the Audi Factory/Team Joest enterage had several Audi A6 4.2 liter V8 w/quattro cars at the site to get their VIPs from place to place. There were plenty of people at the event that can both afford and appreciate upscale, high performance automobiles. While Cadillac and Lincoln may not have a long or deep racing heritage, their chief foreign competition does and it DOES influence a segment of the buying population . . . particularly the 30-50ish affluent enthusiast crowd.
Finally at long last the specs for the new model year are hear! You guys from mania 3 weren't kidding when you said that they had addressed alot of issues. I am very interested in seeing what they did with the interior. Been hoping for a quality navigation system(I hope this is it). Oh yeah and I guess I'll just have to test out the extra horses and see if the stereo is all THatX. Like a kid waiting for Santa, Russ
The article still says Embargoed til Aug 27 but the information is open for anyone to see and doesn't require a Press login like it should. Not sure if this was on purpose or not but there it is.
And now let us have a moment of silence for the V6 manual LS. I bet the price on the 2002 manuals (the few that are out there) probably just went up.
On the good side, the 3.58 rear end reappears in the V8. That plus the extra torque and corrected 2nd gear ratio should put it in the mid 6's 0-60.
I'll put my order in now for a 2003 V8 LSE Silver/charcoal - in two more years, that is. It should be around $25k or so by then.
If you put your car in commercials where it is on the racetrack and you claim that it was developed with testing at a racetrack, then you should race it.
Looks like the Ford media folks decided to make the info public without telling anyone else. It was supposed to be embargoed til Aug 27 but not anymore.
Great Update. I knew at Mania 3, on February 17th, that the Manual was dead. I feel that the decision was made way before that, in 2001. I would really like to find out what total Manual production was, and by year, for historical purposes. My 83 Toyota Cressida was also a "Manual Orphan", killed after 3 years as well. I still get people who can't believe it has a manual. Maybe it will be a classic in 50 years, and a new Jay Leno will collect one and talk about it in Popular Mechanics as he does with all kinds of anomaly cars every month now. If any of you fellows hear if the last Manual LSes sell for more or are cleared out at firesell prices, please report. Thanks and someone should play "Taps" now.
The S-type doesn't have a 2.5L engine choice - at least not in the U.S. 3.0L only for the manual. Are you thinking X-type? It has 2.5 and 3.0L options.
And it's still possible for Lincoln to put a 6-spd manual in the factory hi-po LS, especially since the 2003 Cobra has one with a (rated at 390 but rumoured to be well over) 400 hp supercharged 4.6L modular motor. Should bolt right up to the 400 hp 5.0L modular motor rumoured for the LS.
Stan - I think manual sales for the first two years was around 1600 (3%) but dropped to 0.5% (of a much smaller overall sales rate) or about 200 this year. It's no wonder they had to drop it.
I just returned from a stop at the local (Cincinnati) Auto Mall LM dealer to see what was available: 31 total with almost half having the V6. There were 3 Vivid Red Sport models, 2 Parchment "Convenience" models, a half dozen LSE, another half dozen Sport models, but most were "Premium" models; ZERO manuals. Oh well, that will just make mine more unusual and valuable!
Lincoln did not HAVE TO DROP IT; they did however choose to let it die from a lack of promotion. Of the few people who have even heard of the LS the vast majority think it is a small TC not a BMW challenger. Only we few motor heads even know a manual LS exists . . . UMMM, make that existed! I'm not surprised that it was dropped but it could have been, and SHOULD have been, a much different story. I'm sorry to say that the Infiniti G35 is looking better and better.
I saw the specs on the new '03 LS and I'm going to do the same thing as (akirby) is going to do. Buy it in a couple of years from now when my lease is up not this but next December when the prices have dropped on the '03 to get them out for '04 M.Y. I like the improvements that were listed; just would like to see some interior pics. Now correct me if I'm wrong but, it says that the '03 will have an electronic throttle wire; isn't that the same as "drive-by-wire"? One thing that should be an option is the electronic hand-brake; I rather have a manual hand-brake so I can still perform Mondo 180's while making a U-turn
In my mind you can thank the Lincoln dealers for killing the manual LS. When shopping for my '00 LS I went to 8 dealers. 2 of them had black V6 MTX's on the lot, only one would let me drive theirs. The other 6 dealers all acted like I was crazy when I asked about the V-6 manual, with quotes like:
"Why would you want a manual transmission on a Lincoln?" "It's been discontinued." (DEC 99 timeframe) "Special order only, 50% deposit required." "You really don't want one of them because they will have no resale value." "No one buys a luxury car with a MTX."
And on and on. The dealers wield a lot of power and they voted to ax the MTX LS many times and in many ways. It's a real shame because the extra torque and the much wider torque band of the '03 V6 would have made a huge improvement in the performance and drivability of the V-6 MTX.
I drove an '00 MTX LS and decided against it because I felt the lack of bottom end torque took away too much from the driving enjoyment for me (remember on of my other cars is a throwback 4 speed MTX muscle car with 5.8L of torque). I was holding out hope that the '03 V-6 LS would still have a MTX but....
Drive-by-wire, bedazzles6, electronic throttle control is just one part of what would be considered true drive-by-wire. In a full drive-by-wire system none of the controls would be mechanically connected to anything that they operate. This would include the throttle, steering, trannie and brakes. Looks like we're 1/2 of the way there.
From the '03 LS specs, I would love to have one, but since I need to make a decision by Sept 30, and the '03 LS won't hit the dealer lots until December, I'm thinking of getting something else in September, that I can turn over to my wife in a year, and get a '03 LS a year from now when they're old hat and selling in the bargain basement bin, like the 02's are today.
I'd hoped for improved performance (& many of the other amenities just announced for the automatics) in a manual sports sedan meant to compete with European and Japanese vehicles.
What I have is an underpowered manual sports sedan with a number of first-year "issues." Even at that, it's pretty decent, handles really well and has incredible brakes. Faint praise perhaps but, for the umpteenth time: "happiness = reality - expectations." I had quite high expectations.
So the manual V6 won't be offered any longer from Lincoln . . . sort of. Instead of making a manual transmission available on a V6 powered LS, people now have the OPTION of ordering their LS from select Lincoln dealerships that gives them a manual transmission mated with a McLaren V8 (a more powerful V8 than the typical V8). Isn't this what everyone wanted to begin with????? Considering the number of manuals sold (despite whose to blame) was so paltry, I think it's remarkable that Lincoln HAS GONE WAY OUT OF THEIR WAY to satisfy the enthusiast market in the way that they have.
The AMERICAN consumer has spoken to Lincoln about their transmission preference, and Lincoln has responded in an commensurate, and appropriate manner.
Well Done Lincoln.
Now if we could only do something about the lame "Travel Well" slogan as it has been applied to the LS . . .
Chris - the problem that most people will have with the Mclaren is the price. $55K instead of $35K. Yes, the performance will be awesome with close to 380 hp (remember, it was 100 hp increase over stock and they said it would be a cumulative 100 hp gain on the 2003). But that puts it out of range financially for most folks.
But don't you think that the exceptionally vocal enthusiast would pony up for the exclusivity and awesome performance? I'm still holding out hope that the McLaren LS will not price itself out of reach.
Of the 0.8 percent of all LS buyers that want a manual, how many will be priced out by the McLaren? Also, wouldn't other enthusiasts be attracted to the brand? I bet McLaren sales will be better than current manual LS6 sales.
I'm also a believer that the market drives pricing. The McLaren LS will be priced such that both Lincoln and McLaren meet their goals.
Maybe a LLSOC poll is in order here. I just think the number of people who can afford (and are willing to spend) $35K is exponentially larger than the number willing and able to spend $55K. Besides, in that price range you're in 540i and used M5 territory. I haven't heard a lot of current manual owners saying they would go for the McLaren, either. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
3.0 still has the OPTION of having a MTX in US bound models as well. But it's still in the mid 40K price range. Personally, I would take the G35 instead.
I would have to agree that most potential manual owners would spend $35K, but very less likely to spend $55K. In my own particular circumstances, my wife is the prime driver of our LS, and she (unfortunately) never learned how to "row the gears". I'm not willing to "learn her" in my new "Vette, and I don't know of any rental agencies who have any manual tranny equipped cars in their fleets, so what's an enthusiast to do? As a side note, on of my colleagues at work is in the market for a new "sport sedan". I'm trying to convince him to get an LS. I took him for a ride in mine, and he was very impressed. He's not quite in a position to buy new, so he's looking for a clean, 2000-2001. He's also looking at Infiniti, but ironically, whatever he gets, he wants a MANUAL!!
There's a Jag dealer near me that has had a Jag S Sport manual on his lot since the day the 2003's were announced to the public. Car sits right in front and hasn't moved in weeks. Gorgeous black/black.
Maybe Jag's not having too much success selling manuals, either.
He also had two Jag S Rs; one was sold pretty quick.
I'm just guessing here, but maybe the majority of buyers spending close to 40 or 50K+ for a sports luxury sedan (excluding BMW) don't want to shift for themselves? Does anyone know if Audi sells a large percentage of manuals?
has been reported for some time as being $56K. Base LSE price plus $12K for supercharger, drive train, brake and suspension... plus $6K for manual/clutch/drive shaft.
$56K is a 540i price. So someone wanting a manual 4-door, V-8 sport sedan and is willing to fork out $56K will already be driving a 540i. The 545i will have more power than the 540i at supposedly the same price, so the McLaren LS has its competition at the high-end and the low-end with the G35 (assuming the manual version arrives next year).
There's no doubt that there are many more people in the car market with $35K to spend than $55K . . . not a difficult concept to grasp. My point was that the LS6 manual sales were slowed not only by the American public's preference for automatic transmissions, but also because many people felt (rightly or wrongly) the V6 was underpowered. Further, the car rags took Lincoln to task for not putting the manual in the V8 to begin with. We even heard from Ford people at the Mania events that, when the LS was first conceived, a V6 manual had to be offered to make a go of the EUROPEAN market. Had Ford upper management decided early on that the LS was strictly destined for the US market, a manual transmission would have been offered only on the V8.
The McLaren LS will attract yet more FIRST time Lincoln buyers as well as getting people trading their LS6 manual. Will Lincoln lose some of its existing customer base? Sure, it's inevitable . . . many people try new vehicles every few years anyway, so why should the LS be any different? We can speculate all we want on the McLaren pricing, but I'd be willing to bet that it will offer the same sort of "value" relative to the BMW540 as the 2000 LS8 offered relative to the BMW528 two years ago.
It won't take much for Mclaren to exceed the sales numbers Lincoln generated for the manual LS6, though I doubt Lincoln or McLaren, based on the current manual transmission sales numbers, expect to sell more manual transmissions.
The lease on my 2000 LS V8 Sport is up in Sept. Its been a fun and pleasurable ride, but I'm disappointed LM is willing to be runner up (or worse) in this segment. Its really amusing watching all the competitors announce and deliver manual transmission versions of their cars while LM pulls back. LM needs to decide if it wants to sell to a young audience, or a bunch of blue hairs. Perhaps in another 25 years, I'll decide to try another LM product.
lolaj42, I think we need a reality check here. The McLaren LS is simply not an option for me nor 99.999% of other potential LS customers. I'd be surprised if McLaren is able to sell 500 LS's next year and I'd expect at most 200 of them to be manuals. The problem with specialty tuner cars is many fold. First insurance will probably run 2x what a factory LS will, 2nd, in spite of the official Lincoln blessing and sales through Lincoln dealers you can expect to have hassles on a regular basis when trying to get dealer service, especially under warranty. Just imagine being out in Wyoming and your 6 speed McLaren LS burns the clutch or blows the trannie. 3rd, resale value of the McLaren LS will be abysmal as are most other tuner cars. When you need to unload it you will have to take pennies on the dollar to unload it, or put an ad in Autoweek and wait months for some sucker (I mean enthusiast) to pay good money for it.
If you have the financial resources to drop unthinkable amounts of money on your special tuner LS, go for it. For the rest of us with budget ceilings and a desire to get the most out of our car purchase for the money spent, the only choice is a real factory model. I love cars, I love thinking about driving one of those super hot specials, but unless a rich relative dies and I'm at the top of their will, I win Powerball, or NASDAQ hits 6000 again, real soon, I will never even consider something like the McLaren LS.
jhoffmann: The popularity of manual transmissions in Europe is not because most Europeans are great drivers with a desire for maximum performance. No the real reason for the popularity of MTX's in Europe is because of the $3 to $4 a gallon gas costs in Europe. This is also the reason why Diesels are so popular in Europe. It's simple economics, manuals get better mileage than conventional autos and manual Diesels get the best mileage.
It is true that MTX's are loosing ground in Europe. Blame it on affluence, improved auto mileage. Expect MTX sales in Europe to really take a nose dive when CVT transmissions become mainstream as they can deliver almost the same mileage as MTX's.
We have to face facts here, 80% or more of drivers don't really like cars & trucks, with probably 50% or more disliking them. Cars & trucks are just a means to get from place A to B for most drivers. Luxury & status is king over performance.
Think of manual transmissions like sail boats. To me owning a sail boat is about the stupidest purchase one could make. Let's face it sailing is completely obsolete as a form of transportation. However, there is a small segment of the industrialized world's population who are sailing fanatics. Fanatical, yes, practical, no. Sailing is nothing more than a hobby. Shifting gears is same thing too, nothing more than a hobby.
Hey, don't pick on me, as stupid as I know shifting gears for myself is, I love to do it.
As to why, when I choose to spend 5.5% of a million dollars on a car, it won't be a Lincoln, please reread slunar's #9385.
He made every point I thought of as I read that I should be the first in line to go buy a car which I'm sure would provide more servicing entertainment that any number of Audis & BMW's. My dealer can't figure out which rear window regulator to put in -- couldn't wait to turn him loose with a supercharger and an engine with more heat load than it was ever designed for.
I guess it's now time to hide and watch, as always.
I get the feeling that people enjoy bashing Lincoln more than anything else. They get roundly critized for putting the MTX in the V6 instead of the V8. Lincoln proceedes to get killed in the market because no one buys the V6 MTX. Rather than taking another year or more beating by putting an MTX in the LS8, they offer it through a specialty shop. People critize this move as well.
If you want a MTX in an LS . . . ITS AVAILABLE!!!! Put your money where your mouth is! If you get a better perceived deal through another manufacturer, go for it, but I think Lincoln is going in the right direction on this.
As far a reliability of the V8 engine when coupled with a supercharger . . . hasn't Jaguar been doing this with this very engine for years? Since I don't follow the particulars of Jaguar, I'm unsure of the details, but I'm positive the 3.9l V8 engine used in the LS has long been coupled with a supercharger in various Jaguars over the past 10 or so years. If anything, I would expect the McLaren package to be more durable.
Geez, is it just me, or do people just like to critize?
My point regarding Europe was that those manufacturers that sell the same basic vehicle in Europe can spread their MTX costs over more products. Once the decline in MTX sales in Europe causes additional price pressures, watch for less MTX options in the U.S.
Lincoln is already in that price pressure and has made a business decision that probably would be made by any one of us also.
I agree the McLaren MTX version is not really a replacement for the V6 MTX LS. It's too bad since that model really seemed to be the thing to have for handling situations.
But in Lincoln's press release "effortless performance" was the heading for the engine changes. I don't think that mindset and MTX go together.
I think the McLaren 6-speed MTX represents a huge product improvement. It'll be able to handle gobs more torque than the current 5-speed Getrag. If someone's idea of improvement means "less expensive" . . . that's the Asian car maker's specialty . . .
Why should Lincoln, or any manufacterer subsidize the MTX market? At least the option exists. As far as pricing is concerned, some folks here are already counting themselves out BEFORE final pricing has even been set. Seems to be a lot of premature hand wringing to me.
McLaren is NOT Lincoln. It is not a Lincoln option. It is not a Lincoln product improvement. Until I see Lincoln make it a regular production option that can be selected and serviced at all dealers, it's still a tuner option.
With that logic, Ford has actually provided a great track handling Mustang all along (not just recent SVT). People just had to go to Kenny Brown or Griggs or...
When I used the word "option", I was referring to the buyer's ability to obtain a MTX transmission via McLaren. Regardless, select LM dealerships will be able to accept orders for this vehicle . . . so, to me, it is a Lincoln sanctioned "option."
The only tuner options I've ever heard of for Mustangs is Roush and Saleen. Both of these tuners can be ordered/purchased through select Ford dealerships. Can the Kenny Brown or Griggs or any other be obtained through a Ford dealership?
Being old enough to have been there when you could go into a dealer and order a car option by option, a-la-carte style, instead of package1, package2, etc....... please let me say just one more thing about the MTX, and then I'll shut up. If L-M offered the MTX as a seperate, stand alone option for $300-$500, like in the "old days", the enthusiast might stand a chance of being able to afford/buy one. However, given that the ##@%^!! EPA sees one engine with two transmissions options as two completely different and seperate cars, therefore requiring two seperate emmissions certifications, the "bean counters" just won't let it happen unless thousands of units can be sold. The cost of certifying an MTX that sells only 500-600 units a year just won't fly. This is the territory where the "tuners" fill in the gaps, albeit at $20K over the normal car. Despite the fact that most of us on this board are crazy about our LSs, are car enthusiasts, and in my case won't by a RWDer, the vast majority of those walking into a L-M dealership are looking for a cushy "transportation module". If an MTX was the only thing available, they'd die right on the spot. And, I'm sure that crowd probably doesn't even realize or even care what wheels cause the car to move. Guys, we're fighting an uphill battle!! I'll be quiet now............
Chris, My point was that you indicated Lincoln provides the option ("they offer it through a specialty shop"). That is not the case. Independent business people, who happen to be Lincoln dealers, partner with McLaren. This is the same as the Roush and Saleen options. To give the manufacturer credit for these options is where I have the disagreement.
Had McLaren not availed themselves to Lincoln, it is quite possible that Lincoln would not have cancelled the MTX. Lincoln and McLaren are most definitely working in conjunction to bring this car to market. If I understand correctly, ordered cars will be taken directly from the Wixom plant and taken to McLaren's Dearborn, MI facility to undergo mods before final delivery to the dealership/customer.
There will also be opportunities for people to return their '03 LS to selected dealerships to undergo McLaren modifications after initial delivery. Modifications of this type will also apply to people that own '00 - '02 MY LSs that wish to purchase intake/exhaust, and suspension/wheel/brake mods.
Chris, Not to beat a dead horse but many of us did want a manual and our money was with our mouths, we just wanted to drive one before buying it.. That is why the Manual failed and I think Lincoln and the Dealers are responsible for not stocking the product... Now the pitch worked, that got me in the showroom and I bought the LS V8 Sport instead, Just like your baby down to the color.. and Window Tint...
I have always wondered if it was just a marketing ploy... Never saw any motivation to really sell the automobile, just had it available, and Pitched it in Ads. Unfortunately those ads only reached a small segment of enthusiasts otherwise many a V6 Manual would have been sold had people known and Dealers Stocked..
I finally drove a V6 Manual (Besides Jim Roger's at Mania One)at a dealership in New Mexico on the 4th of July. 3 Years after my initial quest for one in August of '99. Boy it sounded nice with the new '01 and '02 Exhaust. Poor thing had been on lot for 3 months...(I am sure nobody that is an enthusiast knows about it). BTW I live in Dallas and not one V6 Manual between here and Las Cruces (about 700 miles away) How are you supposed to sell it or even get the word out?
The main reason for the lack of sales was because the Lincoln dealers did not want to stock the manuals because they didn't feel that they would sell. So it was basically a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't stock the car because you're afraid it won't sell, then no one knows about them, so why bring one in, and if a customer comes in and wants to buy one but can't test drive one, why buy one?
Might hope history doesn't repeat itself. In 1980, the same year Ford formed its Special Vehicle Operations (SVO) unit, Ford teamed with McLaren to create a 1980 McLaren Mustang. For $25,000 you got a heavily modified Mustang. Revised suspension, modified exterior, bigger tires & BBS alloy wheels, and a higher output variable boost turbo-charged 175 HP I-4 engine. McLaren made only 250. That was in a year when Ford sold 241,000 Mustangs and the most powerful regular model, with the 117 HP 4.2L (255 CID) V-8, started for around $6,500.
A few short years later in 1984 the 175 HP turbo-charged SVO Mustang debuts for $15,600.
Unless things have changed since the NY Auto Show, you can forget about ordering a 6 speed manual with your McLaren package. We were told at the show that McLaren was not going to offer the manual tranny for the 2003 model. The McLaren folks seemed a little discouraged and were certain that they could sell quite a few, but lincoln said no. It seems to me the problem is a dealer issue. The dealers seem to be calling all the shots here.
Those who were there with me please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.
Lincoln took the wraps off a high-performance LS, a sedan tweaked by McLaren Performance Technologies (not the McLaren group that you see in the F1 paddock). The special Lincoln is powered by a modified version of the LS's 3.9-liter V-8 engine. MPT bolted on an Eaton supercharger supplied by Magnuson, along with twin intercoolers incorporated. The result is roughly 350 horsepower and 350 lb-ft of torque. Lincoln estimates 0-to-60 mph in 6.2 seconds and the quarter-mile in 14.2 seconds. Teaming with the blown motor is a Tremec six-speed manual transmission—a first in an LS sedan. A re-calibrated suspension lowers the LS approximately one inch, front and rear, while StopTech four-piston caliper brakes bring the car to a halt. For additional traction, the LS may be supplemented with McLaren's Gerodisc limited-slip differential, which is both torque and speed sensitive. The LS's sporty look is enhanced by 18" x 8" O-Z wheels shod with Michelin Pilot Sport tires, a perforated performance grille, xenon headlamps, custom taillights, a titanium trim package, and McLaren Performance "Speedy Kiwi" logos on the head restraints, floor mats, etc. The "Powered by McLaren Engines" Lincoln LS offerings will be available in three performance stages. Stage 1 features engine intake and exhaust enhancement and wheels and tires for $5,000. Choose Stage 2 and you get all the goodies in Stage 1 plus the supercharged and intercooled motor, and the brake and chassis upgrade—all that for $12,000. Stage 3 features one item—a six-speed manual transmission for a measly $6,000.
Comments
Good Luck and keep us posted as to what the solution is..
Regards,
Airwolf
I love the run to Austin as I get to blow the cob webs out on the way down.
Ray
However, there was virtually no trace of a Cadillac CTS at the event. The ONLY 1 CTS at the event was a static display on Sunday outside the Cadillac hospitality tent in the paddock area. The official race vehicles were the Escalade SUV and Escalade EXT pickup truck. The pace car was a Seville STS.
The only Cadillacs that raced were the 2 LMP900 class enterants, one of which had a mild crash and finished well off the pace, and the other managed a disappointing 4th place finish (well off the pace of the podium finishers).
Interesingly (to me anyway) was that these two cars were constantly backfiring all along the course (usually whenever the driver was changing gear). No other cars in any category behaved in this way. Cadillac should be quite embarassed by this showing in "their" race.
The report was that Cadillac was going to drop its LMP900 racing program, which has been pretty much an embarassement. Ususally auto manufacturers tout their racing successes in advertisements, Cadillac put the cart before the horse and ran endless TV an print ads about their LMP900 race cars which have had a disimal racing record to put it politely. If Caddy had first spent their racing advertising budget on racing they may have had something to crow about by now.
As far as the CTS goes, the Autoextremest report was that for 2003 Caddy would be racing CTS's in the GT class (I think) competing with Porsche 911 and BMW 3xx production based cars. Personally I think they have a pretty good challenge ahead of them as unless they can get some rules concessions (like BMW did with their V-8 powered 3 series race cars they ran last year that never made it to the street) the rather large CTS will struggle against the smaller lighter competition.
The good news is that it looks like Lincoln delivered on about 90% of what the majority of LS owners were looking for on the '03 LS, plus added a few slick things we never thought of.
The bad news is that it looks like the manual transmission is dead. Appears to me that the Lincoln's strategy is to emphasize the luxury aspects while retaining the great driving and handling characteristics of the LS and not try to compete head to head with Euro Sport Sedans.
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=718&press_subsection_id=421&make_id=93
I give Cadillac at least some credit for sponsoring this type of event. I only wish Lincoln would attempt to break into racing in some form to better tout the abilities/attributes of the LS.
It was also interesting to note that, the Audi Factory/Team Joest enterage had several Audi A6 4.2 liter V8 w/quattro cars at the site to get their VIPs from place to place. There were plenty of people at the event that can both afford and appreciate upscale, high performance automobiles. While Cadillac and Lincoln may not have a long or deep racing heritage, their chief foreign competition does and it DOES influence a segment of the buying population . . . particularly the 30-50ish affluent enthusiast crowd.
Like a kid waiting for Santa,
Russ
And now let us have a moment of silence for the V6 manual LS. I bet the price on the 2002 manuals (the few that are out there) probably just went up.
On the good side, the 3.58 rear end reappears in the V8. That plus the extra torque and corrected 2nd gear ratio should put it in the mid 6's 0-60.
I'll put my order in now for a 2003 V8 LSE Silver/charcoal - in two more years, that is. It should be around $25k or so by then.
Hmmm. Kind of applies to the LS too...
I would really like to find out what total Manual production was, and by year, for historical purposes. My 83 Toyota Cressida was also a "Manual Orphan", killed after 3 years as well.
I still get people who can't believe it has a manual.
Maybe it will be a classic in 50 years, and a new Jay Leno will collect one and talk about it in Popular Mechanics as he does with all kinds of anomaly cars every month now.
If any of you fellows hear if the last Manual LSes sell for more or are cleared out at firesell prices, please report.
Thanks and someone should play "Taps" now.
It had to happen.
However the McLaren boys are into the 6 speed man so all is not dead. The 6 spd will be true High Performance!
And it's still possible for Lincoln to put a 6-spd manual in the factory hi-po LS, especially since the 2003 Cobra has one with a (rated at 390 but rumoured to be well over) 400 hp supercharged 4.6L modular motor. Should bolt right up to the 400 hp 5.0L modular motor rumoured for the LS.
Stan - I think manual sales for the first two years was around 1600 (3%) but dropped to 0.5% (of a much smaller overall sales rate) or about 200 this year. It's no wonder they had to drop it.
Lincoln did not HAVE TO DROP IT; they did however choose to let it die from a lack of promotion. Of the few people who have even heard of the LS the vast majority think it is a small TC not a BMW challenger. Only we few motor heads even know a manual LS exists . . . UMMM, make that existed! I'm not surprised that it was dropped but it could have been, and SHOULD have been, a much different story. I'm sorry to say that the Infiniti G35 is looking better and better.
"Why would you want a manual transmission on a Lincoln?"
"It's been discontinued." (DEC 99 timeframe)
"Special order only, 50% deposit required."
"You really don't want one of them because they will have no resale value."
"No one buys a luxury car with a MTX."
And on and on. The dealers wield a lot of power and they voted to ax the MTX LS many times and in many ways. It's a real shame because the extra torque and the much wider torque band of the '03 V6 would have made a huge improvement in the performance and drivability of the V-6 MTX.
I drove an '00 MTX LS and decided against it because I felt the lack of bottom end torque took away too much from the driving enjoyment for me (remember on of my other cars is a throwback 4 speed MTX muscle car with 5.8L of torque). I was holding out hope that the '03 V-6 LS would still have a MTX but....
Drive-by-wire, bedazzles6, electronic throttle control is just one part of what would be considered true drive-by-wire. In a full drive-by-wire system none of the controls would be mechanically connected to anything that they operate. This would include the throttle, steering, trannie and brakes. Looks like we're 1/2 of the way there.
From the '03 LS specs, I would love to have one, but since I need to make a decision by Sept 30, and the '03 LS won't hit the dealer lots until December, I'm thinking of getting something else in September, that I can turn over to my wife in a year, and get a '03 LS a year from now when they're old hat and selling in the bargain basement bin, like the 02's are today.
I'd hoped for improved performance (& many of the other amenities just announced for the automatics) in a manual sports sedan meant to compete with European and Japanese vehicles.
What I have is an underpowered manual sports sedan with a number of first-year "issues." Even at that, it's pretty decent, handles really well and has incredible brakes. Faint praise perhaps but, for the umpteenth time: "happiness = reality - expectations." I had quite high expectations.
Oh well. . .
The AMERICAN consumer has spoken to Lincoln about their transmission preference, and Lincoln has responded in an commensurate, and appropriate manner.
Well Done Lincoln.
Now if we could only do something about the lame "Travel Well" slogan as it has been applied to the LS . . .
Of the 0.8 percent of all LS buyers that want a manual, how many will be priced out by the McLaren? Also, wouldn't other enthusiasts be attracted to the brand? I bet McLaren sales will be better than current manual LS6 sales.
I'm also a believer that the market drives pricing. The McLaren LS will be priced such that both Lincoln and McLaren meet their goals.
http://media.ford.com
Go to Jaguar
then "Click here to view S-TYPE press kit"
then, "Download Word document, including Technical Specs"
Its all there.
In my own particular circumstances, my wife is the prime driver of our LS, and she (unfortunately) never learned how to "row the gears". I'm not willing to "learn her" in my new "Vette, and I don't know of any rental agencies who have any manual tranny equipped cars in their fleets, so what's an enthusiast to do?
As a side note, on of my colleagues at work is in the market for a new "sport sedan". I'm trying to convince him to get an LS. I took him for a ride in mine, and he was very impressed. He's not quite in a position to buy new, so he's looking for a clean, 2000-2001. He's also looking at Infiniti, but ironically, whatever he gets, he wants a MANUAL!!
Maybe Jag's not having too much success selling manuals, either.
He also had two Jag S Rs; one was sold pretty quick.
I'm just guessing here, but maybe the majority of buyers spending close to 40 or 50K+ for a sports luxury sedan (excluding BMW) don't want to shift for themselves? Does anyone know if Audi sells a large percentage of manuals?
$56K is a 540i price. So someone wanting a manual 4-door, V-8 sport sedan and is willing to fork out $56K will already be driving a 540i. The 545i will have more power than the 540i at supposedly the same price, so the McLaren LS has its competition at the high-end and the low-end with the G35 (assuming the manual version arrives next year).
The McLaren LS will attract yet more FIRST time Lincoln buyers as well as getting people trading their LS6 manual. Will Lincoln lose some of its existing customer base? Sure, it's inevitable . . . many people try new vehicles every few years anyway, so why should the LS be any different? We can speculate all we want on the McLaren pricing, but I'd be willing to bet that it will offer the same sort of "value" relative to the BMW540 as the 2000 LS8 offered relative to the BMW528 two years ago.
It won't take much for Mclaren to exceed the sales numbers Lincoln generated for the manual LS6, though I doubt Lincoln or McLaren, based on the current manual transmission sales numbers, expect to sell more manual transmissions.
Let's withhold judgement on Lincoln until we see if the little G35 keeps it's manual after 3 years.
For Lincoln, Cadillac and probably Infiniti, I would bet they considered the manual transmission to be a marketing expense not an engineering expense.
If you have the financial resources to drop unthinkable amounts of money on your special tuner LS, go for it. For the rest of us with budget ceilings and a desire to get the most out of our car purchase for the money spent, the only choice is a real factory model. I love cars, I love thinking about driving one of those super hot specials, but unless a rich relative dies and I'm at the top of their will, I win Powerball, or NASDAQ hits 6000 again, real soon, I will never even consider something like the McLaren LS.
It is true that MTX's are loosing ground in Europe. Blame it on affluence, improved auto mileage. Expect MTX sales in Europe to really take a nose dive when CVT transmissions become mainstream as they can deliver almost the same mileage as MTX's.
We have to face facts here, 80% or more of drivers don't really like cars & trucks, with probably 50% or more disliking them. Cars & trucks are just a means to get from place A to B for most drivers. Luxury & status is king over performance.
Think of manual transmissions like sail boats. To me owning a sail boat is about the stupidest purchase one could make. Let's face it sailing is completely obsolete as a form of transportation. However, there is a small segment of the industrialized world's population who are sailing fanatics. Fanatical, yes, practical, no.
Sailing is nothing more than a hobby. Shifting gears is same thing too, nothing more than a hobby.
Hey, don't pick on me, as stupid as I know shifting gears for myself is, I love to do it.
He made every point I thought of as I read that I should be the first in line to go buy a car which I'm sure would provide more servicing entertainment that any number of Audis & BMW's. My dealer can't figure out which rear window regulator to put in -- couldn't wait to turn him loose with a supercharger and an engine with more heat load than it was ever designed for.
I guess it's now time to hide and watch, as always.
If you want a MTX in an LS . . . ITS AVAILABLE!!!! Put your money where your mouth is! If you get a better perceived deal through another manufacturer, go for it, but I think Lincoln is going in the right direction on this.
As far a reliability of the V8 engine when coupled with a supercharger . . . hasn't Jaguar been doing this with this very engine for years? Since I don't follow the particulars of Jaguar, I'm unsure of the details, but I'm positive the 3.9l V8 engine used in the LS has long been coupled with a supercharger in various Jaguars over the past 10 or so years. If anything, I would expect the McLaren package to be more durable.
Geez, is it just me, or do people just like to critize?
I'm sure that's how things improve over time.
Signing off.
Lincoln is already in that price pressure and has made a business decision that probably would be made by any one of us also.
I agree the McLaren MTX version is not really a replacement for the V6 MTX LS. It's too bad since that model really seemed to be the thing to have for handling situations.
But in Lincoln's press release "effortless performance" was the heading for the engine changes. I don't think that mindset and MTX go together.
Why should Lincoln, or any manufacterer subsidize the MTX market? At least the option exists. As far as pricing is concerned, some folks here are already counting themselves out BEFORE final pricing has even been set. Seems to be a lot of premature hand wringing to me.
With that logic, Ford has actually provided a great track handling Mustang all along (not just recent SVT). People just had to go to Kenny Brown or Griggs or...
The only tuner options I've ever heard of for Mustangs is Roush and Saleen. Both of these tuners can be ordered/purchased through select Ford dealerships. Can the Kenny Brown or Griggs or any other be obtained through a Ford dealership?
If L-M offered the MTX as a seperate, stand alone option for $300-$500, like in the "old days", the enthusiast might stand a chance of being able to afford/buy one.
However, given that the ##@%^!! EPA sees one engine with two transmissions options as two completely different and seperate cars, therefore requiring two seperate emmissions certifications, the "bean counters" just won't let it happen unless thousands of units can be sold. The cost of certifying an MTX that sells only 500-600 units a year just won't fly. This is the territory where the "tuners" fill in the gaps, albeit at $20K over the normal car.
Despite the fact that most of us on this board are crazy about our LSs, are car enthusiasts, and in my case won't by a RWDer, the vast majority of those walking into a L-M dealership are looking for a cushy "transportation module". If an MTX was the only thing available, they'd die right on the spot. And, I'm sure that crowd probably doesn't even realize or even care what wheels cause the car to move.
Guys, we're fighting an uphill battle!! I'll be quiet now............
My point was that you indicated Lincoln provides the option ("they offer it through a specialty shop"). That is not the case. Independent business people, who happen to be Lincoln dealers, partner with McLaren. This is the same as the Roush and Saleen options. To give the manufacturer credit for these options is where I have the disagreement.
John
There will also be opportunities for people to return their '03 LS to selected dealerships to undergo McLaren modifications after initial delivery. Modifications of this type will also apply to people that own '00 - '02 MY LSs that wish to purchase intake/exhaust, and suspension/wheel/brake mods.
Not to beat a dead horse but many of us did want a manual and our money was with our mouths, we just wanted to drive one before buying it.. That is why the Manual failed and I think Lincoln and the Dealers are responsible for not stocking the product... Now the pitch worked, that got me in the showroom and I bought the LS V8 Sport instead, Just like your baby down to the color.. and Window Tint...
I have always wondered if it was just a marketing ploy... Never saw any motivation to really sell the automobile, just had it available, and Pitched it in Ads. Unfortunately those ads only reached a small segment of enthusiasts otherwise many a V6 Manual would have been sold had people known and Dealers Stocked..
I finally drove a V6 Manual (Besides Jim Roger's at Mania One)at a dealership in New Mexico on the 4th of July. 3 Years after my initial quest for one in August of '99. Boy it sounded nice with the new '01 and '02 Exhaust. Poor thing had been on lot for 3 months...(I am sure nobody that is an enthusiast knows about it). BTW I live in Dallas and not one V6 Manual between here and Las Cruces (about 700 miles away) How are you supposed to sell it or even get the word out?
Regards,
Victor
A few short years later in 1984 the 175 HP turbo-charged SVO Mustang debuts for $15,600.
Those who were there with me please correct me if I'm wrong on this one.
Tom (aka pony)
Go To:
http://www.mclarenperformance.com/news/index.html
or:
From C&D
McLaren Performance Lincoln LS
Lincoln took the wraps off a high-performance LS, a sedan tweaked by McLaren Performance Technologies (not the McLaren group that you see in the F1 paddock). The special Lincoln is powered by a modified version of the LS's 3.9-liter V-8 engine. MPT bolted on an Eaton supercharger supplied by Magnuson, along with twin intercoolers incorporated. The result is roughly 350 horsepower and 350 lb-ft of torque. Lincoln estimates 0-to-60 mph in 6.2 seconds and the quarter-mile in 14.2 seconds. Teaming with the blown motor is a Tremec six-speed manual transmission—a first in an LS sedan. A re-calibrated suspension lowers the LS approximately one inch, front and rear, while StopTech four-piston caliper brakes bring the car to a halt. For additional traction, the LS may be supplemented with McLaren's Gerodisc limited-slip differential, which is both torque and speed sensitive. The LS's sporty look is enhanced by 18" x 8" O-Z wheels shod with Michelin Pilot Sport tires, a perforated performance grille, xenon headlamps, custom taillights, a titanium trim package, and McLaren Performance "Speedy Kiwi" logos on the head restraints, floor mats, etc. The "Powered by McLaren Engines" Lincoln LS offerings will be available in three performance stages. Stage 1 features engine intake and exhaust enhancement and wheels and tires for $5,000. Choose Stage 2 and you get all the goodies in Stage 1 plus the supercharged and intercooled motor, and the brake and chassis upgrade—all that for $12,000. Stage 3 features one item—a six-speed manual transmission for a measly $6,000.