Of course you're right Scott. I need to work on my word choices. I really meant "after" the first model year, not "since". There aren't many incentives for a car with as much buzz as the LS had.
At the same time, I remember the sticker price being significantly lower for comparably equipped 00s. Was that my imagination?
I really wish they'd drop the sticker and can the promos, but I sure understand their concern that we still won't buy withour a rebate of some sort. Fact is, they've got us trained.
Prices naturally come down on any car model as it ages. However, keep in mind the the MSRP on a 02 LS is almost $3,000 over a '00 LS with the exact same options. So with the $3,000 cash back you can think of the 02 LS being the same price as an 00 LS before dealer discounts.
Around here LS dealer discount levels started to creep up in JAN 00. In Dec 99 a Lincoln dealer who refused to sell me a LS for $1,000 over invoice called me back in late Jan 00 to offer a $500 over invoice deal. They were too late as I had already decided on another dealer who offered $600 over invoice out of the box and we settled for $400 over.
Now think of all the people out there who have been paying $5,000 or more over Sticker on new T-Birds. I'm starting to see them pile up on dealer lots. Dealers are now advertising how many T-Birds they have in stock. Most seem to still be trying to get higher than MSRP, but that will change soon.
Pretty simple example of supply and demand. If you want to be the first on your bock to have a LS, T-Bird or any other vehicle you are going to pay more than someone who waits until just before that model is going to be updated, which is the present case with the LS.
Remember, it's BON - but it quotes sources at team mustang and Roush that the 2005 mustang may use the Focus platform instead of the dew98 lite due to cost concerns.
Although BON's editor / owner claims it's from a reliable source, the info. sounds a lot like an April Fools article that was in a Mustang rag.
It seems that it's really late to be changing platforms as that whould surely push the new Mustang out even farther. In addition Ford was supposedly going to use DEW-lite on other cars too.
On the other hand, with Ford's financial woes, you never know what may be up. Could also be why the new Mustang has slipped from 2003 to 2004 and now supposedly to a 2005 model year.
I didn't think you could easily modify a purely FWD platform to be RWD. I know Jag did it with the Xtype but that's still a transversely mounted engine and fwd tranny with a transfer case added to get power to the rear (sort of the inverse of making a RWD vehicle AWD), isn't it? And converting it to IRS wouldn't be that easy, either.
I hope they're pulling BON's leg on this one. I can't imagine they didn't know the costs of the dew98 lite from the get-go. It wouldn't surprise me if Roush and Ford employees are leaking misinformation on purpose and if they are, I applaud them.
I think Lincoln's done very well holding the line. I couldn't get a solid answer on the '03 when we saw it in Feb. but the Lincoln folks keep saying they're very conscious of the "price point" of the LS and don't intend to mess with it. My dealer is pretty small so I haven't compared a lot of cars. My '00 V8 Sport has everything available that MY except the phone/RESCU setup and the audiophile sound option. Sticker was $39,630. A couple '01s they had at the time were just over $40k but had the phone and better audio systems. I've yet to see an '02 over $42k except for an LSE.
The '03 release will be interesting. Without spilling any beans, I can say the improvements are significant and at least one isn't cheap. If they price it out of this blue-collar guy's budget, I may have to find a way to buy one of these discounted '02s and keep it in mothballs to take the place of the '05 or '06 I had in mind.:)
IIRC, when Lincoln added the second accessory power outlet there was a post that detailed the installation procedure for earlier LS models whose manufacture date had preceeded that option's availability date.
Would anyone happen to know where to find the installation procedure for the second power outlet or, even better, care to share any personal experiences re: your own installation of the second accessory outlet?
I'm currently having to resort to using one of those "splitters" to power a cellphone hands-free rig and a ValentineOne, which, for various reasons, I'm not able to permanently install, and could really use a second outlet on the back of the console.
When I put in my hands free kit I ran the power wire from the rear of the console under the carpet and rear seat to the battery in the trunk along the tunnel. You could easily add a power outlet (or two) internally or externally from there. The rear seat bottom lifts out easily with two latches. You just need a coat hanger or maybe fish tape to feed the wire through. I'm sure there is a power source somewhere in the console but this way you don't have to touch the existing wiring. If you're using more than one device make sure the wire is a heavy gauge and you might want to add a 5 or 10 amp inline fuse (Radio Shack).
lsv8, here's what I did. You need to remove the trim piece from around the ashtray. Use a small flathead screwdriver (such as a jewelers screwdriver) and pry gently from the top. The center console just pops off in one piece. You will probably want to disconnect the TC switch so you can move the console out of the way. The rear A/C trim piece is now easily removed from the ducting. I bought the outlet from Radio Shack for, IIRC, $10. Measure up the A/C trim piece to allow for the bracket that sticks up from the tunnel (I didn't and had to notch the bracket with Mr. Dremel) and drill your hole for the outlet. I used one of the studs that sticks up from the tunnel for a ground and ran a wire up front and spliced in to the hot from the lighter (you'll need a test light to find the hot). The only problem I had was not allowing for that bracket. When you reinstall everything, you'll need to put the console on first (don't forget the TC switch), then the rear A/C piece snaps in, then the ashtray piece. I believe this procedure is on the llsoc site too.
If this has been discussed previously, my apologies. While the G35 sedan really doesnt do much for me looks wise, have any of you seen the pics of the upcoming (Fall 2002) G35 Coupe? Shares NO body panels with the sedan, and pumps out 275hp over the sedans 260hp. Sticker is rumored to be at around $29,000. 0-60 5.9 with the 6 speed manual. While I LOVE my LS, if the G35 coupe has any decent rear seat room at all, its gonna get a peek from me as a potential replacement for my LS next Spring. Then again, I'll have to wait and see what the 2003 V6 LS has in store performance wise, although I'd be surprised if it gets more than around 245hp from the Duratech.
All I can say is, Nissan aint playin when it comes to the recent performance wars.
Sidenote: Im sure everyone has noticed that the G35 Sedan has won best Sports Sedan honors in Road and Track and Motor Trend, beating out the once mighty 330i.
Dont get me wrong, love the LS. WONDERFULLY engineered vehicle. And although 4 doors is comfortable and convenient for me, I could deal with a coupe IF it has sufficent rear seat room.
is Infinit's version of the Nissan 350Z. And just like the sedan the interior quality is a bit questionable. I don't think it has the refinement or luxury amenities of the LS but if you just want to go fast it looks like it would be a blast to drive, as does the new Z car.
akirby's comment brings up a good topic. I've had my 2000 LS V6 Sport/Auto since November 1999. If I had to give the LS interior quality a rating, I would probably have to rate it around a 7. Ive been pleased at how well the leather has held up. No cracks, creases. I clean/condition it all about once every 4-5 weeks, maybe thats helped a lot. Carpet still looks good, although the floor mats are definitely cheap and thin. A nice thick heelpad for the drivers side would be GREAT. (Note: If someone sold just drivers mats, they would be RICH!) Dash looks GREAT/like new, with little or no creaks. NO wear on any of the buttons/knobs, and pleased to see all of the writing on the knobs/switches still there, not rubbed off. I do have a crack in the parking brake boot, right where it flexes the most when I pull the brake up. Cheap, hard vinyl is the culprit there. Seats are still firm, lumbar supports still work perfectly. Had to get the drivers side heated seat element replaced once, other than that, seats are fine. Rear passenger side seat belt retractor has failed. Hinge on front center armrest almost twisted right off when I forgot to lower the armrest while reaching into the back seat once. A tougher hinge would possibly be nice. Interior door grab area on drivers side is kind of "shiny" now, where the texture has worn down some, but not overly so. Golvebox "soft open" mechanism broke once, (string came unattached) but was replaced under warranty). The annoying B pillar rattle haunted me for weeks, but was completely fixed by the dealer (warranty) by "adjusting and lubing" the drivers door latch mechanism.
Thats pretty much it. All in all, a few disappointments interior quality wise, but for the first model year of a completely new American made vehicle, Im fairly pleased with how its held up in 2.5 years/57,500 miles.
<<<<The '03 release will be interesting. Without spilling any beans, I can say the improvements are significant and at least one isn't cheap>>>>
You don't have to worry about spilling anything. All the new features have been posted here and my dealer already has an early poop sheet that he showed me listing all the new stuff.
I second akirby's request -- what exactly is on the burner for the 2003? I know there's going to be a moderate HP increase in both engines, but what are the other changes?
I'm seriously thinking about buying a g35, but if the 2003 LS is significantly improved I might wait for it.
The first question I have to ask you is what kind of a car are you looking for? The G35 is a smaller car than the LS, so, if size comes into play the LS is larger and can handle 5 people better than the G35. Also, the G35 has a correspondingly shorter wheelbase, so it may feel slightly more "nimble" and maneuverable than the LS.
On the power front (which is what most people seem to be interested in -- for better or worse), the '03 LS will not disappoint. I've been to all 3 Mania events so I know what I'm talking about. I won't divulge the hp numbers, but I can tell you that the '03 LS has the goods and can/will deliver!
You need to ask yourself do I want a car that can reasonably accommodate 2 and even 3 adults in the rear seats or just 2 kids back there. I really doubt you'll notice any difference (if any) in performance attriubutes between the two cars, even though the LS is longer, wider and heavier than the G35.
Here's what I've pieced together from various sources. I do not have any firsthand info so these are all educated guesses.
Variable Valve Timing - 235-240 hp V6 275-280 V8 Revised suspension Electric parking brake More interior storage keyless entry keypad Xenon headlights Satin Nickel center stack/console DVD Navigation system
"travel well" has no emotional strategy. Does the product like the LS or TC provide some emotional content and does "travel well" campaign match the product line? Can anyone also travel well in for example Hundai Sonata or Honda Civic or Saturn LS???
Thanks,Brian! That made my day. "Surprising Journey" should get an award for special effects editing. But my fav is "Expresso", even though I would like to see a real LS burn that amount of rubber under the control required. It would take the Mclaren, LSD and TC in the off position to get close to that display. I played those two again and again. Thanks to broadband Cox Cable Internet at 1.5 mps, I could. Downloading took just a few seconds (about 5). I wish my LS was that fast 0-60. Again, thanks for the entertainment.
Sorry Brian, I get only sound and no video. Using windows MP-(Version 6.1). The real player version tells me that connection to the server is refused. Maybe I need to update my WMP software. Also I had to use "save targe as option" before running it. When I click directly on your web page icons I get server access denied. My other options is to see these on TV when they come out! Thanks anyway for make it available for others!
I completely agree with Stan's assessment. Those commercials really helped me get over feeling like a red headed stepchild because of Lincoln's lack of promoting the LS. Now if we can just get them on the air!
I still do not understand how "Drive Well" relates to a sport sedan. To me that phrase connotes subdued cruising a la Cadillac, Lexus & Towncar. Sporting vehicles are at the opposite end of the spectrum. Where is the fun factor, the pure enjoyment of the moment when one is the apex and ready to accelerate out into the vast unknown? Drive Well has nothing to do with these emotions (or the drivers who seek them) and IMHO utterly fails in regard to the LS. Lincoln ought to give the term to the TC, but ban it from LS advertising!
Even if the V6 LS gets 250hp, it would still be slower than the 260hp, lighter, smaller G35. Of course the LS would have many other advantages, in my book looks would be one, but also interior space. Disadvantage: I doubt the 2003 LS V6 similiarly equipped will be around $30-$31k sticker, like the G35 currently is. For some, the G35 is direct competetion to the LS, for others who need the room the LS offers, it is not competing.
I agree, except that I don't consider the G35 to be a Luxury sedan at all. Sports sedan, yes, and a very good one. But the LS gives you so much more in the luxury dept along with the extra room. Of course the car mags only care about performance.
Maybe Lincoln's marketing folks are smarter than most think.
There's a lot of valid comments about Lincoln (and Mercury) being the "old man's" car, but isn't there an upcoming group of "old men" about to emerge, the baby-boomers?
Supposedly, this group has a great deal of disposable income and is more in line to spend it rather than save it for the kids, like my deceased parents who saved everything having lived through the great depression.
Maybe Lincoln's trying to cover all bases by selling the LS to the younger baby boomers who want sport sedan handling, and the TownCar to the older baby boomers that want quiet, luxurious transportation without denting their portfolios drastically.
Maybe Lincoln feels that there will be a time when the need to road race a BMW or dragrace a G35 will be replaced with quiet touring in a car that has decent road handling capabilities.
As someone who is a few years ahead of the baby boomer generation, I think they might be right.
While the '03 LS6 may not be faster 0-60 than the G35, it won't be by more than 1 second (my guess) and I would consider that to be "on par". I fully expect the '03 LS8, on the other hand, to more than surpass the G35 in terms of performance. By the same token, I'd guess the performance numbers will still be close enough to consider them "on par".
I seriously doubt anyone, even on a drag strip, can FEEL the difference in acceleration between these cars, particularly if their 0-60 times are within a second of each other. I'm sure others will take issue with my assertion.
The way I started my latest foray into buying a new car was to start with a price point, in my case $30,000, that I could comfortable venture north from. Originally, I was looking at everything from a maurader/GM LSE to an infintiy i35 to a volvo s-60 to an toyota avalon, but I priced everything out with similar options on carsdirect.com and came to the conclusion that I wanted (1) 220 HP as a minimum (2) a decent luxury-leather standard base (3) RWD, and (4) something small enough that I would be able to dart in traffic and park in the city, but big enough that I could conceivable carry big-wigs in the back for short drives.
The LS, g35, and maybe 1-2 others (depending on incentives when I buy) fit that bill. In fact, when I priced out the base v-6 LS ($29049) and the base g35 (leather, 29,500) I was struck by how similar the pricing is, and the overall package.
Of course, I dorve behind a g35 last night and was struck by how small it really was compared to the LS, even though the interior measurements were similar.
I'm pretty convinced that the 2002 LS is a better deal than the g35, even if the g is the favorite of the car mags. I see mto remember those same mags gushing without pause about the LS in 2000, and now they barely remeber to keep it in thier comparisons.
Autoweek quotes the Mclaren LS as doing 0-60 in 6.2 seconds. I presume that is with the automatic. This is an LS with a blower that costs between $55,000 and $60,000. The G35 Automatic has been tested at 6.1 to 6.3 0-60. The six-speed manual version will probably do 5.7 - 5.8. The G35 starts in the $27,000 range. I guess it depends on the luxury/performance ratio you desire.
Funny how an auto rag that recently compared the LS to the Chevy Vega can quote a 0-60 time for a car that hasn't seen the light of day as far as the press is concerned.
Why get all hyped-up over the @#^% that AW (or any other rag) has to say? Speculate all you want about the G35 manual as well . . . it's MEANINGLESS until it hits the streets.
I would put the G35 coupe in the Mustang competition. When compared to the SVT Cobra, the G35 looks slow. Of course the true competition would be when the Mustang switches to the LS-lite chassis. That, with 60's mustang-style, 400+hp and it may tempt me away from a new LS...
Just updated my WMP to 7.1 and looked at the ads. Not sure Brian if you had a chance to see the T-Bird/Lambo ad. (For a time Blueovalnews web site had it)It is much better than these! The journey one is still my favorite as most creative! I recall when my wife first saw it on TV few years back she was so focused on all the special effect she could not recall what car was being advertised.
The speedboat is OK. Now I wish I knew why the LS colors selected for the campaign are black and silver. Heck the T-bird is not black just the Lambo is! Why do all luxury cars have to be black or silver in commercials? Thanks again for the link.
babicka, yes I've seen the TBird ad and I think it's one of the best out there. Journey is one of the favorites. It managed to showcase just about all the LS attributes in one commercial.
Every Lincoln car in a commercial is black. Why they don't use another color is a mystery to me as well. They could have used the Vivid Red limited edition color to great effect.
is similar to the C32AMG - supercharged 350hp with automatic with 245/40 tires. It manages a 5.1S 0-60 at 3600 lbs. As such, the heavier McLaren (3900 lbs?) will easily beat 6.0S and probably be near 5.6S. The planned 3.58 diff will actually hurt 0-60 times by requiring 2 shifts to 60 versus the single shift of the 3.31.
The automatic McLaren is projected to cost $50K.
Yes, from a raw performance perspective, the G35 is hard (impossible?) to beat for the money.
I find the outstanding passing acceleration of the LS to be more important, and more frequently used, than acceleration from a stop.
0-60 is nice for the rare stoplight challenge. Passing acceleration, for me, is more a part of everyday driving.
Are we allowing the rags to unduly influence our decisions?
The LS is a world class sport/touring sedan, and we're assigning a significant portion of its value to its straight line drag racing capabilities? What's up with that?
If stop light drags is the game then a $38,000 SVT Cobra may be the answer. (I drove one today. The driver's seat cushion is unnecessary at WOT ... I was so firmly pinned to the seat back that there was no chance of any vertical force on the cushion.)
Personally, 0-60 is just a benchmark. Ive done 0-60, but not in racing. Usually in DC when there is construction on the Capital Beltway, and the ongoing construction closes the acceleration lane. Its 0-75 from a dead stop or get run over!
Anyways, chances are, if the G35's 0-60 is what it is, the passing acceleration from 60-80 or whatever is probably just as incredible.
Again, the looks of the G35 Sedan dont really appeal to me. But the Coupe which will have 275hp, is enticing IF it has enough rear seat room to accomodate a toddler and a 6 year old. If not, I plan to hang on to my 2000 LS for at least 2 more years.
Although I am intrigued by the G35 I firmly believe the LS is the superior car (for me). The G35 may be a bit quicker but the difference is not significant enough for me to give up the increased size and luxury amenities the LS provides.
I took a test drive this morning with the salesman who sold my wife her I30. He was telling me to "really get on it" so I did and its performance is impressive BUT I did not come away saying, "WOW, I've got to have one of these!" I had the impression that the LS handled undulations/irregularities in the road surface better and my LS has the "harsh" sport suspension! There was some sort of a "bump" in the drive shaft tunnel that extended into my right calf. One may get used to it but I found it irritating when taking hard left turns. The seats were not nearly as comfortable as the LS's and the controls for the driver's seat is on the right side of the seat and difficult to reach comfortably??? It's interior is definitely inferior. Then there is the totally subjective styling (I didn't really care for it). Overall, the G35 is a nice, quick compact-size sport sedan, but I do not consider it a threat to the LS (unless 0-60 time is one's highest priority).
After the test drive I asked the salesman if he had a few moments to do a short comparo. He wasn't enthusiastic about the idea but since it was early and he didn't have anyone else waiting to speak to him he agreed. We then took the exact same route with him piloting my manual LS. He tried to remain stoic but the famous LS smile did creep across his face a couple of times. As we pulled back into the dealership I told/showed him what additional features the LS offered that the G35 didn't. I then asked him why I should seriously consider trading. Other than the justifiable "Infiniti Service" he had nothing to say. Like I said, "I'm keeping mine!"
In support of my impressions here is a copy of part of post #5816 on the G35 board from an owner who took an extended trip: The only disappointment was in seat comfort. I noticed that I tend to sit with my feet pointing a bit to the left in the G, possibly to avoid the hump in the center tunnel caused by the transmission being set so far back in the chassis. This causes me to rest my back mostly on the right-hand part of the seat back, which is tiring on my right shoulder blade. In addition, my left knee was often in contact with the door armrest and window control panel. It was better when I consciously tried to sit facing directly forward, but that felt less natural.
My wife drove for a few hours and she found that the seat controls pressed uncomfortably on her thigh. She doesn't notice this on the power passenger seat.
Also, I needed to use the cruise control because I found that my right ankle got tired holding the accellerator at the correct angle for cruising after an hour or so.
I test drove a 2002 LSE today with All Season Package and Power Moonroof. MSRP is $43,020, and dealer offered it for $40,500 without me asking for discount or haggling. Plus I can get 0% financing or a $3,000 rebate on top of that. Anyone out there purchased one lately? Thoughts on price? I know Edmunds TMV is about $500 less--I'm sure I can approach the sales manager with a lower price if I get serious on purchase. However, I do feel it is a fair price, as it also includes some dealer add-ons. As far as driving impression, I was quite impressed with the car. I have owned a '97 BMW 528i, '98 BMW 540i, and currently own a '99 BMW 740iL, and I must say the LSE is pretty close to equaling the 5-series (except for power of the 540i). The only thing I don't particularly care for is the shallow trunk and lack of cubby/console space inside.
That sounds like a decent price. Check the invoice price here on Edmunds. You should be able to get it very close to invoice not including the rebate.
It will definitely cost more but if you can wait 6 months the 2003 LS gets an upgraded interior with more storage, a significant power boost plus a host of other upgrades and new features. I'm guessing it will cost at least $2K more than the 2002 plus you won't get the $3k rebate so that's at least a $5K difference.
Not trying to talk you out of a 2002 - it's a great car at an even greater price. Just wanted you to know what was coming so you can make an informed choice either way.
Autoextremist.com is reporting that GM may race the CTS in the American Lemans series GT class. Any respectable showing and a coordinated ad campaign will give the CTS the performance image high ground in the American sport sedan category.
I hope Lincoln will rise to compete. Cadillac is on the way back.
force98, unless you have your heart set on the LSE, you might do better, maybe a lot better. $3k off sticker doesn't seem that great in light of some of the ads I've read about. You should be able to get a well-equipped V8 Sport in the mid- to high $30s.
Gary, on my second test drive the dealer offered to let me drive my daily commute, a 90 mile round trip. Not quite long enough to learn everything, but close. He made the sale, and I got . . . well, you know.:)
Just got back to the office this AM after being out on vacation for two weeks. The wife and I cruised down to Ocean City, MD for a few days around the fourth. Saw a LOT of "luxury" cars there, and even managed to see a few LS's. While a "few" wasn't many, it's still more than I'm used to seing around home. Maybe they're finally catching on....
..but in almost 3 years of LS ownership, Ive noticed maybe a total of 5 LS drivers that appear to be under the age of say, 55. Seriously. I see a number of LS's here in the DC metro area on a regular basis, and most of them are Sport Packaged equipped models. Interestingly enough, seems that most of the Sport Packaged models I see are driven by grey haired females! Hey, what would REALLY be interesting is if they were actually driving the 5-speed Manual Transmissioned Sport Packaged models. :-)
Comments
At the same time, I remember the sticker price being significantly lower for comparably equipped 00s. Was that my imagination?
I really wish they'd drop the sticker and can the promos, but I sure understand their concern that we still won't buy withour a rebate of some sort. Fact is, they've got us trained.
Around here LS dealer discount levels started to creep up in JAN 00. In Dec 99 a Lincoln dealer who refused to sell me a LS for $1,000 over invoice called me back in late Jan 00 to offer a $500 over invoice deal. They were too late as I had already decided on another dealer who offered $600 over invoice out of the box and we settled for $400 over.
Now think of all the people out there who have been paying $5,000 or more over Sticker on new T-Birds. I'm starting to see them pile up on dealer lots. Dealers are now advertising how many T-Birds they have in stock. Most seem to still be trying to get higher than MSRP, but that will change soon.
Pretty simple example of supply and demand. If you want to be the first on your bock to have a LS, T-Bird or any other vehicle you are going to pay more than someone who waits until just before that model is going to be updated, which is the present case with the LS.
http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/mustang_05chassis070302.htm
It seems that it's really late to be changing platforms as that whould surely push the new Mustang out even farther. In addition Ford was supposedly going to use DEW-lite on other cars too.
On the other hand, with Ford's financial woes, you never know what may be up. Could also be why the new Mustang has slipped from 2003 to 2004 and now supposedly to a 2005 model year.
I hope they're pulling BON's leg on this one. I can't imagine they didn't know the costs of the dew98 lite from the get-go. It wouldn't surprise me if Roush and Ford employees are leaking misinformation on purpose and if they are, I applaud them.
The '03 release will be interesting. Without spilling any beans, I can say the improvements are significant and at least one isn't cheap. If they price it out of this blue-collar guy's budget, I may have to find a way to buy one of these discounted '02s and keep it in mothballs to take the place of the '05 or '06 I had in mind.:)
Would anyone happen to know where to find the installation procedure for the second power outlet or, even better, care to share any personal experiences re: your own installation of the second accessory outlet?
I'm currently having to resort to using one of those "splitters" to power a cellphone hands-free rig and a ValentineOne, which, for various reasons, I'm not able to permanently install, and could really use a second outlet on the back of the console.
Thanks in advance.
Hope this helps.
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member
All I can say is, Nissan aint playin when it comes to the recent performance wars.
Sidenote: Im sure everyone has noticed that the G35 Sedan has won best Sports Sedan honors in Road and Track and Motor Trend, beating out the once mighty 330i.
Dont get me wrong, love the LS. WONDERFULLY engineered vehicle. And although 4 doors is comfortable and convenient for me, I could deal with a coupe IF it has sufficent rear seat room.
Thats pretty much it. All in all, a few disappointments interior quality wise, but for the first model year of a completely new American made vehicle, Im fairly pleased with how its held up in 2.5 years/57,500 miles.
Any other experiences/comments?
You don't have to worry about spilling anything. All the new features have been posted here and my dealer already has an early poop sheet that he showed me listing all the new stuff.
This site really enhances the LS ownership experience.
Jerry
Why does this get you so torqued? It's not like they're dancing around singing "I know something you don't know!"
How about reposting a list of all the changes? I don't remember seeing the V6 horsepower rating or details about the interior modifications.
I'm seriously thinking about buying a g35, but if the 2003 LS is significantly improved I might wait for it.
On the power front (which is what most people seem to be interested in -- for better or worse), the '03 LS will not disappoint. I've been to all 3 Mania events so I know what I'm talking about. I won't divulge the hp numbers, but I can tell you that the '03 LS has the goods and can/will deliver!
You need to ask yourself do I want a car that can reasonably accommodate 2 and even 3 adults in the rear seats or just 2 kids back there. I really doubt you'll notice any difference (if any) in performance attriubutes between the two cars, even though the LS is longer, wider and heavier than the G35.
Variable Valve Timing - 235-240 hp V6 275-280 V8
Revised suspension
Electric parking brake
More interior storage
keyless entry keypad
Xenon headlights
Satin Nickel center stack/console
DVD Navigation system
"travel well" has no emotional strategy. Does the product like the LS or TC provide some emotional content and does "travel well" campaign match the product line? Can anyone also travel well in for example Hundai Sonata or Honda Civic or Saturn LS???
http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=34567
LLSOC was granted the right by Lincoln to show the latest LS commercials. Some of you may have seen the boat one but no one has seen the other two.
http://www.llsoc.com/V2R1/Resources/videos.asp
I played those two again and again. Thanks to broadband Cox Cable Internet at 1.5 mps, I could. Downloading took just a few seconds (about 5). I wish my LS was that fast 0-60.
Again, thanks for the entertainment.
Maybe I need to update my WMP software. Also I had to use "save targe as option" before running it. When I click directly on your web page icons I get server access denied. My other options is to see these on TV when they come out! Thanks anyway for make it available for others!
I still do not understand how "Drive Well" relates to a sport sedan. To me that phrase connotes subdued cruising a la Cadillac, Lexus & Towncar. Sporting vehicles are at the opposite end of the spectrum. Where is the fun factor, the pure enjoyment of the moment when one is the apex and ready to accelerate out into the vast unknown? Drive Well has nothing to do with these emotions (or the drivers who seek them) and IMHO utterly fails in regard to the LS. Lincoln ought to give the term to the TC, but ban it from LS advertising!
There's a lot of valid comments about Lincoln (and Mercury) being the "old man's" car, but isn't there an upcoming group of "old men" about to emerge, the baby-boomers?
Supposedly, this group has a great deal of disposable income and is more in line to spend it rather than save it for the kids, like my deceased parents who saved everything having lived through the great depression.
Maybe Lincoln's trying to cover all bases by selling the LS to the younger baby boomers who want sport sedan handling, and the TownCar to the older baby boomers that want quiet, luxurious transportation without denting their portfolios drastically.
Maybe Lincoln feels that there will be a time when the need to road race a BMW or dragrace a G35 will be replaced with quiet touring in a car that has decent road handling capabilities.
As someone who is a few years ahead of the baby boomer generation, I think they might be right.
I seriously doubt anyone, even on a drag strip, can FEEL the difference in acceleration between these cars, particularly if their 0-60 times are within a second of each other. I'm sure others will take issue with my assertion.
The LS, g35, and maybe 1-2 others (depending on incentives when I buy) fit that bill. In fact, when I priced out the base v-6 LS ($29049) and the base g35 (leather, 29,500) I was struck by how similar the pricing is, and the overall package.
Of course, I dorve behind a g35 last night and was struck by how small it really was compared to the LS, even though the interior measurements were similar.
I'm pretty convinced that the 2002 LS is a better deal than the g35, even if the g is the favorite of the car mags. I see mto remember those same mags gushing without pause about the LS in 2000, and now they barely remeber to keep it in thier comparisons.
The G35 Automatic has been tested at 6.1 to 6.3 0-60. The six-speed manual version will probably do 5.7 - 5.8.
The G35 starts in the $27,000 range.
I guess it depends on the luxury/performance ratio you desire.
Why get all hyped-up over the @#^% that AW (or any other rag) has to say? Speculate all you want about the G35 manual as well . . . it's MEANINGLESS until it hits the streets.
The speedboat is OK. Now I wish I knew why the LS colors selected for the campaign are black and silver. Heck the T-bird is not black just the Lambo is! Why do all luxury cars have to be black or silver in commercials? Thanks again for the link.
Every Lincoln car in a commercial is black. Why they don't use another color is a mystery to me as well. They could have used the Vivid Red limited edition color to great effect.
The automatic McLaren is projected to cost $50K.
Yes, from a raw performance perspective, the G35 is hard (impossible?) to beat for the money.
0-60 is nice for the rare stoplight challenge. Passing acceleration, for me, is more a part of everyday driving.
Are we allowing the rags to unduly influence our decisions?
The LS is a world class sport/touring sedan, and we're assigning a significant portion of its value to its straight line drag racing capabilities? What's up with that?
If stop light drags is the game then a $38,000 SVT Cobra may be the answer. (I drove one today. The driver's seat cushion is unnecessary at WOT ... I was so firmly pinned to the seat back that there was no chance of any vertical force on the cushion.)
Anyways, chances are, if the G35's 0-60 is what it is, the passing acceleration from 60-80 or whatever is probably just as incredible.
Again, the looks of the G35 Sedan dont really appeal to me. But the Coupe which will have 275hp, is enticing IF it has enough rear seat room to accomodate a toddler and a 6 year old. If not, I plan to hang on to my 2000 LS for at least 2 more years.
I took a test drive this morning with the salesman who sold my wife her I30. He was telling me to "really get on it" so I did and its performance is impressive BUT I did not come away saying, "WOW, I've got to have one of these!" I had the impression that the LS handled undulations/irregularities in the road surface better and my LS has the "harsh" sport suspension! There was some sort of a "bump" in the drive shaft tunnel that extended into my right calf. One may get used to it but I found it irritating when taking hard left turns. The seats were not nearly as comfortable as the LS's and the controls for the driver's seat is on the right side of the seat and difficult to reach comfortably??? It's interior is definitely inferior. Then there is the totally subjective styling (I didn't really care for it). Overall, the G35 is a nice, quick compact-size sport sedan, but I do not consider it a threat to the LS (unless 0-60 time is one's highest priority).
After the test drive I asked the salesman if he had a few moments to do a short comparo. He wasn't enthusiastic about the idea but since it was early and he didn't have anyone else waiting to speak to him he agreed. We then took the exact same route with him piloting my manual LS. He tried to remain stoic but the famous LS smile did creep across his face a couple of times. As we pulled back into the dealership I told/showed him what additional features the LS offered that the G35 didn't. I then asked him why I should seriously consider trading. Other than the justifiable "Infiniti Service" he had nothing to say. Like I said, "I'm keeping mine!"
In support of my impressions here is a copy of part of post #5816 on the G35 board from an owner who took an extended trip:
The only disappointment was in seat comfort. I noticed that I tend to sit with my feet pointing a bit to the left in the G, possibly to avoid the hump in the center tunnel caused by the transmission being set so far back in the chassis. This causes me to rest my back mostly on the right-hand part of the seat back, which is tiring on my right shoulder blade. In addition, my left knee was often in contact with the door armrest and window control panel. It was better when I consciously tried to sit facing directly forward, but that felt less natural.
My wife drove for a few hours and she found that the seat controls pressed uncomfortably on her thigh. She doesn't notice this on the power passenger seat.
Also, I needed to use the cruise control because I found that my right ankle got tired holding the accellerator at the correct angle for cruising after an hour or so.
The seating issues from the G35 board are often the kind of things we overlook in our test drives because we're focusing on "in-our-face" features.
Does anyone know of a dealer or manufacturer that allows a test drive that's long enough to detect these issues?
How about a check list of items to assess in a short test drive? Some items on the list could be lifted directly from the G35 post.
As far as driving impression, I was quite impressed with the car. I have owned a '97 BMW 528i, '98 BMW 540i, and currently own a '99 BMW 740iL, and I must say the LSE is pretty close to equaling the 5-series (except for power of the 540i). The only thing I don't particularly care for is the shallow trunk and lack of cubby/console space inside.
It will definitely cost more but if you can wait 6 months the 2003 LS gets an upgraded interior with more storage, a significant power boost plus a host of other upgrades and new features. I'm guessing it will cost at least $2K more than the 2002 plus you won't get the $3k rebate so that's at least a $5K difference.
Not trying to talk you out of a 2002 - it's a great car at an even greater price. Just wanted you to know what was coming so you can make an informed choice either way.
http://www.magnaflow.com/03cat-lincoln.htm
If you want one the only way to get one is through LLSOC since we have been granted exclusive rights to this system!
I hope Lincoln will rise to compete. Cadillac is on the way back.
Gary, on my second test drive the dealer offered to let me drive my daily commute, a 90 mile round trip. Not quite long enough to learn everything, but close. He made the sale, and I got . . . well, you know.:)
Saw a LOT of "luxury" cars there, and even managed to see a few LS's. While a "few" wasn't many, it's still more than I'm used to seing around home. Maybe they're finally catching on....
Also pass two on a regular basis during the evening commute home.