ronniepooh, great as the '03 is, the '02 at the current selling price is the steal of the century. My '00 V8 Sport stickered for $39.6k and sold for $37k, in Oct. '00. The same dealer just sold an '02, identically equipped, for 33-something. And the '02 is, by and large, a better car. I think Lincoln has underplayed the '02 improvements, such as the improved breathing, so as to make a bigger splash with the '03. It's up to you how long you can stand to wait, because '02 prices will probably go down until the last one is sold.
pete, welcome to the Few, the Proud, and the Grinning.:) The car is every bit as good as it seems to you right now. re tires, I just started on my third set of Firehawks. There are better handling tires, quieter riding tires, etc., etc. but the 'Stones are an excellent all around tire. Pretty darn good grip on dry roads, and decent wet and winter performance unless you drive in deep snow a lot.
Does anyone out there live in the Phoenix area, and if so, any suggestions on service centers? There seems to be no fewer than 5 Lincoln dealers within 30 miles, but I just don't know which one to use...
Quick question on accessories - what are the costs of a wind screen for the moonroof and a rear spoiler? Also, are there any other toys I should be considering??
Note to all Bimmer seekers - I owned a 3 series, and it was a great car, but it was small, underpowered, everything seemed to be an option, and service required a 2nd mortgage...
I have at least a couple friends in your area who are enthusiastic LS owners and I've dropped an e-mail to one of them. You'll probably be hearing from him very soon. It would help if you would put your e-mail address in your profile, if you don't mind.
I've never heard of a windscreen for the moonroof, but know several people with spoilers and I'm confident you'll run into them.
..sure you want to stick a rear wing on that LS? Personally, Id suggest a nice window tint on all (except front) windows, (ever notice that almost every TV and mag ad for cars shows the car with hevily tinted windows?..makes the car look better, and protects the interior from fading and discoloration), adding the woodgrain pieces to the center console of the dash, if its not already there so it matches the rest of the dash, and maybe some tasteful chrome tips to your exhaust. Got some big $? How about some nice 18 inch forged rims from www.fiske.com. Stronger, better looking, and lighter than the factory alloys. Beyond that, the body LSE pieces would look nice...
I'm the Arizona Chapter Director for an LS enthusiast club. I also happen to live in the Valley of the Sun and have been very pleased with my dealer for service . . . Jack Ross Lincoln Mercury. They have two separate locations . . . one in North Tempe/Scottsdale and the other in the Tempe Autoplex just off Elliot road (south Tempe, near I-10). I use the autoplex location and they have treated me very well, the techs are friendly & knowledgable and the Service Manager is top notch. Drop me an email (see my edmunds profile) and I'd be happy to help out in any way I can.
I just got back from spending the weekend out in sunny Southern California where I got to do an EXTENSIVE test drive/comparison of the '03 LS (premium sport) versus a BMW 530 (w/ sport package), an Infiniti M45, Lexus GS430, Audi A6, Cadillac CTS, Chrysler 300M, and Lexus ES300. Lincoln sponsored the event, and it was held at the California Speedway in Fontana, California.
All I'll say at this juncture is that the '03 LS is one hell of ride and further reinforces my view that the LS is THE BEST PERFORMANCE SEDAN for the dollar. In fact, it is simply the best handling sedan of the bunch, though the BMW 530 is a great handling car too and is uncannily similar in feel. These 2 cars are head and shoulders better handling cars than anything else out there.
In contrast, the CTS steering wheel had a very heavy feel to it and just didn't feel as agile as several of the others. The M45 comes across as Infiniti markets it . . . an intelligent muscle car. With 340 hp, the power is quite evident, though the steering is numb, the ride very stiff and choppy, and handling, well, I won't go there. The Lexus GS430 is quite competent, though the seats just aren't performance oriented and you slide around in them alot when tossing it through the twisties. Again, the steering wheel feel just isn't nearly as communicative as in the LS (even compared to my "old" '00 LS sport).
To me, the biggest and most noticeable changes to the LS are cosmetic . . . better interior materials, which everyone, I imagine, is already familiar with. Nonetheless,they are much improved and quite noticeable. The Nav system and THX sound system were very impressive too.
Mechanically speaking, the ZF steering is razor sharp, though a little too much power boost for my taste, and as I stated earlier, uncannily similar in feel to the BMW 5 series. If you were blindfolded and placed behind the wheel of these cars, you'd be hard pressed to feel a difference. The 30 HP boost in stock performance is noticeable, though only marginally so. My updated '02 airbox and Borla catback system on my '00 LS close the power gap to less than 20 hp.
Since I own my LS, and have no real problems to speak of, I'm not inclined to incur new debt on a replacement right now. If my current LS were to be stolen or 'totaled' in a wreck . . . I'd be into an '03 LS in a hearbeat!
Just finished an evaluation drive, like Chris, of 2003 LS vs. BMW530I Sport, Lexus ES300/GS430, Audi A6 3.0 CVT, Chrysler 300M, Cadillac CTS, Infinit M45.
Results: LS ties with BMW530i Sport model in terms of handling feel and performance. If people honestly evaluated both the LS and the 530i Sport and drove them both at the limits, they would find virtual twins. BMW has a great engine and you can get it with a manual. Lousy storage space on the inside. Center console doesn't even open. No adjustable pedals. Weird cupholders.
CTS is a dud. Heavy and numb steering, understeer prone. Not a sophisticated product. Caddy has a way to go. P.S The LS development team were at Nurburgring (not to mention Spa Francorchamps, Willow Springs, Laguna Seca, Grattan, and Thunderhill) about 5 years before Caddy was.
The M45 is a typical musclecar, all engine no handling. Great torque monster of a motor. Would love to have it in the LS. Prodigous amounts of understeer. Good car for a straight line or as a boulevard cruiser.
The rest were also-rans.
Botton line: Anyone who does an honest evaluation of a 2003 Lincoln LS versus a 2003 BMW 530i Sport model will see how identical they are. The Caddy and M45 don't even come close. Hats off to the Lincoln LS team.
ver2us, I live in NJ and just went through that snow storm that dumped about 6" in my area. My '01 LS V8 Sport w/AdvancTrac handled it with no complaint. I'm riding on the original Firestones w/32,000 miles.
There were several areas going up hills when the traction control was working hard to keep me going but I never got stuck even in areas where the traffic was all screwed up because of stuck cars.
Keep in mind that it is my humble opinion that good snow performance is more a product of the driver than the car. I am pretty experienced in handling snow and never got stuck when I owned a Mark VII LSC (no traction control) which was definitely not known for its good snow manners.
It seems they left out one obvious car from the test. Or is it less of a "near-luxury" car to be included? Too inexpensive? Also, any MTX models in the test? Was the CTS a "Sport" model? My guess is that the CTS "killer" motor for next year won't overcome it's other handicaps. The M45 looks like it belongs on a railroad track. What a waste of the Q's drivetrain, especially at that price. I'm glad the BMW was the 530i and not it's little brother. This makes for a fairer comparison. The current 5 series is getting a little long in the tooth, and a replacement is due soon. The Bimmer has done about all it can with it's Mcpherson-strut suspension. No one has commented on a price comparison. With the LS going up in price for 2003, is the BMW still that more expensive?
Stan - I compared a similarly equipped 530iA sport with a premium Sport LS V8. Yes, the 530i is still much more expensive - over $53K compared to a fully loaded premium sport LS street price of $45K. That's a significant difference. And the 530 doesn't have adjustable pedals or heated/cooled seats - not to mention the smaller back seat and almost no storage room (how come the 5 series is never dinged because of lack of interior storage while that's all the pre-2003 LS detractors seem to want to talk about? Talk about a double standard!).
I don't know why the G35 wasn't included except that Lincoln doesn't view it as a competitor. My guess is it's not luxurious enough and they already had the M45. Or maybe they just simply couldn't get one to test with. Maybe they told Brian?
Thanks, Guys. Since discounts are available on the LS and rarely on the BMW, there will probably be more of a difference in the value quotient. Also, parts and service over the long-haul has got to be an important factor. I have a 96 Volvo 960 Wagon also and at 53,000 easy (wife unit miles), I have spent a fortune already. Complete brakes two months ago- $1500! Minor stuff last Summer another $700. Now I need a timing belt, so that means water pump and idler pulley, timing belt, regular belt, and labor. So I am not a fan of European cars. The LS has been, except for the power window recall, trouble free. If any car deserved to break under my ceaseless pounding, my LS is it. I have explored it's every limit, and it has met the challenge. When lease time is up in July, I will explore buying it if I can obtain an extended warranty that has any honest coverage.
Stan, I just happen to know where to get such a warranty. I have one. It covers just about everything except normal wear items, i.e. brake pads, tires, wipers....., and it is a Ford warranty. Let me know if you're interested.
Hey, team. I just got a surprise letter from the "Lease Operations Coordinator" at the dealer I leased my LS from in July 2000.
"Great News! Ford Motor Credit has selected you to participate in a "Early Bird" program. The program works like this, Ford Credit is willing to make up to 7 payments for you on your current leased vehicle as an incentive to either lease or purchase a new 2002 Lincoln LS. Please contact me ASAP to review your eligibility and to go over the details of the program."
Hey Guys, does this smell funny? I lack a lot of details but maybe you have seen this one before.
ver2us, I'll second what Joe has said. Into my third winter with the LS, after years of driving Subarus, and really don't miss the AWD (although I'll admit to being less adventurous). This system is the real deal. Effective but unobtrusive. In normal driving, when it's working, you probably won't even notice it. Try a slow curve or city turn, as icy as you can find. The front end will begin to plow, then you'll hear/feel a little ABS action, even if your foot isn't on the brake. Voila, the car tracks straight. It can also save your bacon if you overdo a curve in the rain.
Straight ahead traction in deep snow is not the LSs strong point, but the TC does help. I get by with all-season tires; if you have to drive in deep snow very often, you'll probably want real snow tires, like Blizzaks.
And, like Joe says, there's no mechanical substitute for driver's care and skill. Around here, nearly all the vehicles off the road during a snowstorm are 4WDs.
That's the real deal Stan. There are quite a few 2002 LSes available and the deals that Lincoln is making are very good. I've heard 0% financing for 5 years plus $2,000 rebates. While the 2003 LS is very good, the late 2002s aren't that far behind them. So if you're looking for a LS and don't mind having a 2002 you can come out smelling pretty good.
... on late 2002s had me thinking for a moment or two. Let's see, an updated 2002 over my 2000, big rebates, the "X" plan on top of that...WOW! Then I looked over at Edmunds' used car site, and found out that my low mileage, $39,000 new, 2000 LS is now only worth around $17,500-$18,000. I'd be looking at $15K-$16K just to move up 2 model years.....I think I'll keep it a little longer...maybe a LOT longer!
Got a rate quote from State Farm. Quote for a 2002 LS Sport was $575 every six months, and for an LSE was $625 every six months. DC Metro area, clean driving record. My current premium on my 2000 Sport is about $520 every six months. Interesting part is the agent didnt ask "V6 or V8". Nor did she ask for the VIN.
Prehaps there is a rate difference because the panels are more expensive to replace after an accident. But, the difference is much more than it should be...
Basically they are letting you out of your current lease without a prepenalty as long as you are within seven months of completion so that they can get you into a new vehicle and guarantee that cash flow for another 24 or 36 months.. Your current car will just be sold off, certified or auctioned. This is my hunch.. A very close friend of mine works for Remarketing for one for the german carmakers and they did this recently.
Hey Stan also notice they said on a 2002. If this is the case not only would you be guaranteeing them more cashflow but also buying their slow moving product.. Sounds like a win-win for them. I would up the ante and ask them about the 2003, or Wait until Jan, when they will move the 2002, so they don't get hit with inventory tax.
I contacted a salesman at the dealership and he said no 2002 MTX's are left. I bet they stopped manufacturing those many, many months ago. Maybe in 2001! Has anyone on this board purchased or leased a 2002 MTX? What is the manufacturing date?
I test drove an autumn Red one over the summer.. Who know they might still have it. Borman Auto Group 470 West Boutz Rd. Las Cruces NM 88005 | | (505) 525-4500 (800) 376-CARS
Not many manual LSs were built in the 2002 model year, but there were SOME. Heritage LM in Tustin, CA shows one in stock; it's a black/charcoal LSE with the all-season package (AdvanceTrac/heated seats) and MSRP is $38,895. You can see the window sticker by going to the dealer's website & searching inventory at:
Gee, I feel I stole my 2000 MTX with Tri-coat Pearl for $32,800! I wonder if these two dealers feel they have something dear or they can't wait to sell their orphans. I may end up buying my LS at the end of the lease. It could be a bargain I can't pass up!
I BET those dealers would let those two MTX LS's go for under invoice. Plus you get the 3k rebate (2k if you choose the 60 month 0% interest financing). If your really interested, contact them near the end of this month. I would think and end of the month/end of the year sale to get rid of a 2002 MTX would be pretty tempting to a dealer.
Stanny, if you're leasing you will get $3,000 cash rebate, $2,500 (or more) dealer discount and $1,000 returning lease loyalty for $6,500 or more off MSRP, so you should be able to lease a loaded '02 V-6 MTX for the same or less than what you are paying now.
I got a letter telling me that I am "pre-approved" to lease or buy a Lincoln costing up to $45K with no money down, when my lease is up, but no early turn in offers.
Took the 2000 MTX in for it's 30k Service on Thursday. Also had a coolant leak from the area under the coolant recovery reservoir. Sure enough, the reservoir had a small crack. Not very common, I guess, as it will take 3 days to get another bottle. I had the same problem with the Volvo wagon's reservoir at the 4 year mark. Like duh. Plastic bottle under 15 psi at 200 degrees. Cooling and heating cycles every day. Not exactly neutral ph with Prestone. Now bottles like this were no problem when they were used as "coolant recovery" systems. No pressure, not much heat. But both my cars have this plastic reservoir as part of the system, with coolant circulating thru these things. That's a lot different. Now the radiator is partly plastic. But it isn't thinner, see thru plastic. This may be the achilles heel of the modern car's cooling system. Periodic replacement might not be a bad idea. The dealer gave me a Mercury Sable GS built 4/02 with over 18k already on the clock. Clean inside and out except for the cigarette smell. Has some features I don't have on my LS and I have the "convenience group". Has courtesy lights underneath the side mirrors. Has an auto-dimming mirror with compass readings. Cool. Has single CD slot but I miss not having a cassette player. The A/C has no digital readout or dual system. Has no compressor switch so I can't just vent with the fan. Tried to take my 25 mph off-ramp at 50 mph. The rear end started getting twitchy and I thought that funny for a FWD. The LS can do over 60 mph with no complaints. The Sables suspension is not anywhere as compliant as the LS. The LS has about as much suspension travel as Ivan Stewar's Baja Toyota in comparison. The Crown Vic I drove once was worse than the Sable. Short, sharp choppy movements. The engine is a lower status 3.0 Duratech. Not as smooth as my 3.0 DAMB headed LS. And when you step on it, not much happens. The auto just seems to absorb torque. I'm used to jerking my neck everyday I guess. My LS has the Borla so I'm not used to too quiet a car. But I can hear everything inside and outside with the windows closed in the Sable. It makes you appreciate the level of cabin noise isolation and the level of NVH work done on the LS. I had to turn up the radio with the increase in speed. Also, it's easy to speed in the LS without realizing it. In contrast, you can judge your speed in the Sable by the increase in noise and vibration. Typically for FWD, it has a rotten turning circle. Isolation is also poor from mechanical noise and vibration from the drivetrain. It reminds of my B.I.L's 96 Accord. Not a mechanically quiet car at all. So the LS's weight has to do with refinement. It's thick glass and sandwich insulation makes for a quiet car. RWD keeps the drivetrain out of your steering wheel. It all adds up in cost and weight. I have not driven alot of cars like Brian and Leadfoot have. But these NVH factors are important over the long haul. A lighter car might feel somewhat less refined. The 2003 LS cuts 6.7 in 0-60. The lighter G35 does 6.2. One half second is probably the weight difference talking. If I didn't have to haul bodies around, I would get a ZO-6 and lose my license. I want to get into the 5 second range in my next car. Why is there such a difference between two doors and four? Like add two doors and add two seconds. Cars don't have to be like that. In July, I may just buy my lease out on the LS MTX and lease a two-door toy with the right numbers. Then I would have the "best of both worlds". Oh, my dealer here in San Diego has a load of Navigators out front. Looks like the Great Wall of China. 20-24" Pimpmobile wheels are definitely in. I bet the dealer just adds them in as an option. Hey, it's better than vinyl roofs. I'd barf if I saw one of those on a Navi.
Like most LS owners, I have truly enjoyed the beautiful looks and driving feel of this V-8 sport sedan. The powerful engine, tight handling and awesome stereo are the envy of the class. However, the poor quality materials and faulty components are inexcusable for a car pushing $40K. Consider the list of service issues: Ball Joint, Window Motors, Poor Quality Paint (especially on the pillars), Condensation inside the headlamps, Constant brake squeal (for 40K miles!), occasional phantom warning sounds, and truly abysmal transmission (that eventually left me stranded in an empty parking lot). Unfortunately, my LS marriage ended abruptly after being rear-ended at high speed. The impact was enough to crumple the back 1/3 of the car, yet the airbags did not deploy. I have recently heard of other major accidents where LS airbags did not deploy. Can anyone substantiate those claims? How do you know if YOUR airbags will deploy correctly? Have there been any service bulletins regarding airbags? I want to know and you should too. Fortunately, most of our collective gripes were heard by Ford, given the enhancements for 2003.
Uhm, many autos have airbag sensors in the FRONT of the car..my BMW had two orange impact sensors in under the hood, mounted to the fenders, about halfway up. If they were impacted (front end or side impact, I assume) the airbags would trigger. Later BMW went to a computerized trigger that was based solely on rapid pace of deceleration for the trigger. I dont know of any cars that have sensors in the REAR of the car to trigger an airbag. If you are rear ended, the first reaction is for your head/body to slam BACK into the seat/headrest from the sudden ACCELERATION of the severe rear impact.
Stan, your comments are interesting, and exactly reflect a recent experience. A friend just purchased a new Impala and insisted I drive it. Not my cup of tea, but I won't knock it; it's a very competent car that would fully satisfy about 95% of the drivers in America, and pretty impressive for the price. But I couldn't help noticing that my 63,000 mile LS (which needs new shocks) is still smoother, quieter, tighter, and more solid in every way. We talk about performance all the time, but we're probably a lot more spoiled for comfort than we realize.
I like the Z06 idea. I got a 99 Jeep Wrangeler this year for my play toy. With the 4.0L engine and 5 speed (and I just had 4.56 gears installed) it goes to 60 like a banshee. It is lifted and customized and I have had a lot of fun doing it. With the top down I can even pretend that I have a sports car (one that rides like a truck LOL).
Anyway, my lease is running out in July and since my Jeep is paid for I am considering driving it for a while and saving up for a nice used 911 or vette. Since my wife has the minivan I am not sure I really need the sedan anymore. And the price for a used car and the jeep together is what I pay for the LS....
On the other hand. I love the LS. I can't wait to drive the '03....
Someone at Lincoln should take a look at their process.
I owned a 2000 LS8 since June of 2000. Had one of the first ones, it had been a "show car" and was fully loaded. Had it on a 3 yr lease and extended the lease for 6 months so I could get a 2003 LS. Ordered the 2003 LS from my dealer. Dealer could not get a delivery date. Kept putting me off, said he could not get a commitment from Lincoln. Got a call from Ford credit saying I had to turn my car in at the end of my lease extension, so not being able to get any kind of delivery date from the dealer--they said maybe early 2003, (could not get any info.), so turned in my LS and leased a Lexus GS430. Asked the dealer when I turned in my LS if he knew when the 2003 was coming in. Still said no information and no lease information. He then tells me that since I had a car on oder, Ford credit should not have told me I had to turn the car in at the end of the extension. The coordination between Ford credit, Lincoln, and the dealer was incredibably inept. Dealer said he was losing another customer who wanted a 2003 LS to BMW because they could not wait any longer. Two days after I turn LS in, but after I leased the Lexus, the dealer notifys me--guess what--the 2003 LS came in. Too late for me.
How can this happen that the car is shipped but no one knows?? If I had known, I could have waited the extra few days.
While I like the GS430 so far, I would have been happy with the the new LS. Now Lincoln may have lost me for good, who knows? This was a stupid way to handle my order and my lease.
I won't be monitoring this board any more as I no longer have an LS. Was a great car and I really enjoyed it.
I'm assuming you weren't hurt in the accident and I'm glad for that, but why would you think that airbags would deploy in a rear-ender? They are intended for frontal impacts. The sensors are located in the front of the car. How would they be triggered then? As Ronniepooh points out, what good would front airbags deploying do as your upper body was propelled backwards? If you didn't strike anything with the front end after the initial impact, then the bags should not have deployed.
There is absolutely no substantive evidence of LS airbags not deploying in accidents. Have you checked the NHTSA website to see if there any complaints about this?
I've found that there are lots of misconceptions out there regarding airbags. Front airbags are designed for frontal impacts and there is a threshold speed at which they deploy, usually around 12-14mph.
The LS has been named one of the 10 safest cars of all time. You stated that the back third of the car crumpled. That's exactly what it's supposed to do, it's a crumple zone. I'll bet that the passenger compartment remained intact. Therefore, you survived what was apparently a significant collision, there was no fire and you're here to talk about it. I think you should be thankful you were driving an LS instead of giving jeers to it.
One of the main reasons I purchased my '01 LS Sport (besides stealing one off the lot for under 22K) is SAFETY...you can't argue with the Government & the insurance companies.
DRolds, you mentioned the 'top ten' - whose list is it?
The insurance website insure.com named the '01 LS one of the five safest cars of all time. Here's a link to an article on their website explaining the selections and the processes behind them (using NHTSA and IIHS data):
<<<<<<<<<However, the poor quality materials and faulty components are inexcusable for a car pushing $40K.>>>>>>>>
I think the car is quite nice compared to the BMWs and Lexus I looked at.
<<<<<<<Consider the list of service issues: Ball Joint, Window Motors, Poor Quality Paint (especially on the pillars), Condensation inside the headlamps, Constant brake squeal (for 40K miles!), occasional phantom warning sounds, and truly abysmal transmission (that eventually left me stranded in an empty parking lot).>>>>>>>>
Well gee I had a wheel bearing go bad before 20K. That wasn't on your list. Byt hey, I haven't had a ball joint go bad, my paint is fine and no brake squeal. My auto is the best auto I have ever driven. The damn thing shifts like my old Hurst controled Ford top loader.
<<<<<<<<Unfortunately, my LS marriage ended abruptly after being rear-ended at high speed. The impact was enough to crumple the back 1/3 of the car, yet the airbags did not deploy. I have recently heard of other major accidents where LS airbags did not deploy. >>>>>..
Can you name a car that the airbags deploy when rear ended? I don't think that's possible with the sensors located in the front of the car. I'll bet you've opened a can of worms with this one though. Now there's going to be a whole flock of lawsuits by lawyers/people who read your post and are rear ended and their front airbags failed to deploy. Not that they were supposed to but because the manufacture failed to incorporate this feature.
After my own extensive research of air bag technology and rear end collisions, I must admit I was wrong. The LS does not come equipped with rear sensors (also known as safing sensors) to detect major impact in areas other than those guarded by today's impact sensors. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I want one. The LS IS one of the safest vehicles on the road and probably saved my life in the previously mentioned accident. I may have been a victim of an overzealous salesman touting the safety ratings of this car. FYI: The NHTSA does not perform rear impact tests because of budgetary constraints and the relatively small percentage of deaths associated with rear impact crashes. However, numerous manufacturers are continuing research in this area and are in various stages of development of safety sensors. Someday they probably be as common as side impact and curtain airbags. While I was initially saddened by the loss of my 2001, I now look forward to getting one of the upgraded 2003 models. Now if I could only get the truth on their arrival....
How did the front seat back hold up structurally? This is an area where some makes outshine others in the event of rear collison. In some cars the seat back will fail in the event of a severe rear crash whereas some makes like volvo go the extra mile to minimize whiplash. The nature and extentent of your injuries whould be of interest.
One of the reasons I have a continued interest in the Lincoln LS is its exceptional crash performance. Kudos to Ford for a job well done.
My, um, "associates" and I have heard from an employee of Lincoln about delivery dates. Since the car is substantially changed from previous years, they are being gone over carefully before shipping rather than being shipped immediately upon completion. A dealer can find out when a car is built, but it can frustrate the customer when the car is not delivered promptly. Not to absolve Lincoln from miscommunication problems, but there are some good reasons for the delay and confusion.
robers1, as someone who saw and "kicked the tires" on the '03 LS many months ago, and has friends who have extensively tested it, trust me when I say it will be worth the wait.
I have an '00 V6 auto. I have also driven the '03. Were my '00 to be disembarked as yours was, I would not hesitate for one second to get the '03! The driving dynamics are more (as if that were possible) refined. I would have to opt for the V8 though, as there is no '03 V6 with the sport package.
As others have said, I am happy that the LS gave it's life to make sure you kept yours!
On a side note, I find it quite interesting all the complaining about things that are fixed under warranty, on someone elses dime! Cars are MACHINES made by HUMANS. They will NEVER be perfect!! And for all you BMW defecters; Ask the guys on the BMW board if they would own one that wasn't covered by a warranty!
If you remember a few weeks back we were discussing replacement tires, and I received a quote from BJ's of $221 for Pilot A/S's, installed. I bought them, drove the car home on the highway, and there was a noticable shimmy; took it to my regular mechanic, no weights on the rear tires and the front tires were way off. As aggravating as this is, I still saved a couple hundred dollars, but beware of the work at these places.
I too got a call from my dealer. Said they would take car back early (5 payments to go) and put me in a 2002. In NY there is the 399 per month special with 1398 down (after 4k rebate).
Since I'm spending over 500 per month for a 2000 V6 I jumped all over that. Yes I know the 2002 is one model year old etc, but not knowing what the 03s will go for, I paid them a visit.
They had about 7 cars. Two qualified for the 399. V-8 base cars. The cars I wanted had the All season, free moonroof, polished wheels and upgraded radio. Sticker 39 +. Reduced MSRP by 2K or so, took off the 4K and I threw in 1398. Business manager says 430. I say 399. He says you're killing me. You are getting 2000 extra (55 per month) for nothing, We agree on 415.
They take my car, note the 5 or so dings, dent on hood, yellow paint on bumper and charge me ZERO. Lease lady says, don't worry the inspector (who is real cute)is my friend. True to her word. Her boss comes over, puts his arm around me and says thanks for bringing the car back in such great shape. All I did was have it washed before I brought it in.
Apparently Ford Credit re conditions it and auctions to Ford dealers only.
So, I'll be around for the next 3 years with my new 02.
Comments
pete, welcome to the Few, the Proud, and the Grinning.:) The car is every bit as good as it seems to you right now. re tires, I just started on my third set of Firehawks. There are better handling tires, quieter riding tires, etc., etc. but the 'Stones are an excellent all around tire. Pretty darn good grip on dry roads, and decent wet and winter performance unless you drive in deep snow a lot.
Flogging the obvious, I'll admit.
Quick question on accessories - what are the costs of a wind screen for the moonroof and a rear spoiler? Also, are there any other toys I should be considering??
Note to all Bimmer seekers - I owned a 3 series, and it was a great car, but it was small, underpowered, everything seemed to be an option, and service required a 2nd mortgage...
I've never heard of a windscreen for the moonroof, but know several people with spoilers and I'm confident you'll run into them.
Just my thoughts
All I'll say at this juncture is that the '03 LS is one hell of ride and further reinforces my view that the LS is THE BEST PERFORMANCE SEDAN for the dollar. In fact, it is simply the best handling sedan of the bunch, though the BMW 530 is a great handling car too and is uncannily similar in feel. These 2 cars are head and shoulders better handling cars than anything else out there.
In contrast, the CTS steering wheel had a very heavy feel to it and just didn't feel as agile as several of the others. The M45 comes across as Infiniti markets it . . . an intelligent muscle car. With 340 hp, the power is quite evident, though the steering is numb, the ride very stiff and choppy, and handling, well, I won't go there. The Lexus GS430 is quite competent, though the seats just aren't performance oriented and you slide around in them alot when tossing it through the twisties. Again, the steering wheel feel just isn't nearly as communicative as in the LS (even compared to my "old" '00 LS sport).
To me, the biggest and most noticeable changes to the LS are cosmetic . . . better interior materials, which everyone, I imagine, is already familiar with. Nonetheless,they are much improved and quite noticeable. The Nav system and THX sound system were very impressive too.
Mechanically speaking, the ZF steering is razor sharp, though a little too much power boost for my taste, and as I stated earlier, uncannily similar in feel to the BMW 5 series. If you were blindfolded and placed behind the wheel of these cars, you'd be hard pressed to feel a difference. The 30 HP boost in stock performance is noticeable, though only marginally so. My updated '02 airbox and Borla catback system on my '00 LS close the power gap to less than 20 hp.
Since I own my LS, and have no real problems to speak of, I'm not inclined to incur new debt on a replacement right now. If my current LS were to be stolen or 'totaled' in a wreck . . . I'd be into an '03 LS in a hearbeat!
Results: LS ties with BMW530i Sport model in terms of handling feel and performance. If people honestly evaluated both the LS and the 530i Sport and drove them both at the limits, they would find virtual twins. BMW has a great engine and you can get it with a manual. Lousy storage space on the inside. Center console doesn't even open. No adjustable pedals. Weird cupholders.
CTS is a dud. Heavy and numb steering, understeer prone. Not a sophisticated product. Caddy has a way to go. P.S The LS development team were at Nurburgring (not to mention Spa Francorchamps, Willow Springs, Laguna Seca, Grattan, and Thunderhill) about 5 years before Caddy was.
The M45 is a typical musclecar, all engine no handling. Great torque monster of a motor. Would love to have it in the LS. Prodigous amounts of understeer. Good car for a straight line or as a boulevard cruiser.
The rest were also-rans.
Botton line: Anyone who does an honest evaluation of a 2003 Lincoln LS versus a 2003 BMW 530i Sport model will see how identical they are. The Caddy and M45 don't even come close. Hats off to the Lincoln LS team.
I live in NJ and just went through that snow storm that dumped about 6" in my area. My '01 LS V8 Sport w/AdvancTrac handled it with no complaint. I'm riding on the original Firestones w/32,000 miles.
There were several areas going up hills when the traction control was working hard to keep me going but I never got stuck even in areas where the traffic was all screwed up because of stuck cars.
Keep in mind that it is my humble opinion that good snow performance is more a product of the driver than the car. I am pretty experienced in handling snow and never got stuck when I owned a Mark VII LSC (no traction control) which was definitely not known for its good snow manners.
Joe
Also, any MTX models in the test? Was the CTS a "Sport" model? My guess is that the CTS "killer" motor for next year won't overcome it's other handicaps.
The M45 looks like it belongs on a railroad track. What a waste of the Q's drivetrain, especially at that price.
I'm glad the BMW was the 530i and not it's little brother. This makes for a fairer comparison. The current 5 series is getting a little long in the tooth, and a replacement is due soon. The Bimmer has done about all it can with it's Mcpherson-strut suspension.
No one has commented on a price comparison. With the LS going up in price for 2003, is the BMW still that more expensive?
I don't know why the G35 wasn't included except that Lincoln doesn't view it as a competitor. My guess is it's not luxurious enough and they already had the M45. Or maybe they just simply couldn't get one to test with. Maybe they told Brian?
No manuals which makes sense since the 2003s don't offer a manual. The CTS was a Sport model.
Also, parts and service over the long-haul has got to be an important factor.
I have a 96 Volvo 960 Wagon also and at 53,000 easy (wife unit miles), I have spent a fortune already. Complete brakes two months ago- $1500!
Minor stuff last Summer another $700. Now I need a timing belt, so that means water pump and idler pulley, timing belt, regular belt, and labor.
So I am not a fan of European cars.
The LS has been, except for the power window recall, trouble free. If any car deserved to break under my ceaseless pounding, my LS is it. I have explored it's every limit, and it has met the challenge.
When lease time is up in July, I will explore buying it if I can obtain an extended warranty that has any honest coverage.
I just happen to know where to get such a warranty. I have one. It covers just about everything except normal wear items, i.e. brake pads, tires, wipers....., and it is a Ford warranty. Let me know if you're interested.
"Great News! Ford Motor Credit has selected you to participate in a "Early Bird" program. The program works like this, Ford Credit is willing to make up to 7 payments for you on your current leased vehicle as an incentive to either lease or purchase a new 2002 Lincoln LS.
Please contact me ASAP to review your eligibility and to go over the details of the program."
Hey Guys, does this smell funny? I lack a lot of details but maybe you have seen this one before.
Are there that many leftover 2002 LSes???
Straight ahead traction in deep snow is not the LSs strong point, but the TC does help. I get by with all-season tires; if you have to drive in deep snow very often, you'll probably want real snow tires, like Blizzaks.
And, like Joe says, there's no mechanical substitute for driver's care and skill. Around here, nearly all the vehicles off the road during a snowstorm are 4WDs.
Then I looked over at Edmunds' used car site, and found out that my low mileage, $39,000 new, 2000 LS is now only worth around $17,500-$18,000. I'd be looking at $15K-$16K just to move up 2 model years.....I think I'll keep it a little longer...maybe a LOT longer!
Interesting part is the agent didnt ask "V6 or V8". Nor did she ask for the VIN.
Hey Stan also notice they said on a 2002. If this is the case not only would you be guaranteeing them more cashflow but also buying their slow moving product.. Sounds like a win-win for them. I would up the ante and ask them about the 2003, or Wait until Jan, when they will move the 2002, so they don't get hit with inventory tax.
This is of course if you are serious.
Regards,
Airwolf1000
Has anyone on this board purchased or leased a 2002 MTX? What is the manufacturing date?
I test drove an autumn Red one over the summer.. Who know they might still have it.
Borman Auto Group
470 West Boutz Rd.
Las Cruces NM 88005 |
|
(505) 525-4500
(800) 376-CARS
Not many manual LSs were built in the 2002 model year, but there were SOME. Heritage LM in Tustin, CA shows one in stock; it's a black/charcoal LSE with the all-season package (AdvanceTrac/heated seats) and MSRP is $38,895. You can see the window sticker by going to the dealer's website & searching inventory at:
http://www.tustinlincmerc.com
Galpin Ford/LM in Prescott, AZ has a manual that's white pearl/graphite. It also has the all-season package and MSRP is $37,075. Galpin's website is:
http://www.galpinonline.com
There are lots of '02 automatics out there; you can search dealer inventory via the club website OR the Lincoln website.
Hope this helps.
I wonder if these two dealers feel they have something dear or they can't wait to sell their orphans.
I may end up buying my LS at the end of the lease. It could be a bargain I can't pass up!
Go figure.
My lease is up in July so I was surprised they called me this early.
Looks like a lot of us are getting this.
It would probably be a relatively good deal for folks who like to drive a new car always. But I would wait on the 2003's.
I got a letter telling me that I am "pre-approved" to lease or buy a Lincoln costing up to $45K with no money down, when my lease is up, but no early turn in offers.
Sure enough, the reservoir had a small crack. Not very common, I guess, as it will take 3 days to get another bottle.
I had the same problem with the Volvo wagon's reservoir at the 4 year mark.
Like duh. Plastic bottle under 15 psi at 200 degrees. Cooling and heating cycles every day. Not exactly neutral ph with Prestone.
Now bottles like this were no problem when they were used as "coolant recovery" systems. No pressure, not much heat.
But both my cars have this plastic reservoir as part of the system, with coolant circulating thru these things. That's a lot different.
Now the radiator is partly plastic. But it isn't thinner, see thru plastic.
This may be the achilles heel of the modern car's cooling system.
Periodic replacement might not be a bad idea.
The dealer gave me a Mercury Sable GS built 4/02 with over 18k already on the clock. Clean inside and out except for the cigarette smell.
Has some features I don't have on my LS and I have the "convenience group".
Has courtesy lights underneath the side mirrors. Has an auto-dimming mirror with compass readings. Cool.
Has single CD slot but I miss not having a cassette player.
The A/C has no digital readout or dual system. Has no compressor switch so I can't just vent with the fan.
Tried to take my 25 mph off-ramp at 50 mph. The rear end started getting twitchy and I thought that funny for a FWD. The LS can do over 60 mph with no complaints.
The Sables suspension is not anywhere as compliant as the LS. The LS has about as much suspension travel as Ivan Stewar's Baja Toyota in comparison. The Crown Vic I drove once was worse than the Sable. Short, sharp choppy movements.
The engine is a lower status 3.0 Duratech. Not as smooth as my 3.0 DAMB headed LS. And when you step on it, not much happens. The auto just seems to absorb torque. I'm used to jerking my neck everyday I guess.
My LS has the Borla so I'm not used to too quiet a car. But I can hear everything inside and outside with the windows closed in the Sable. It makes you appreciate the level of cabin noise isolation and the level of NVH work done on the LS. I had to turn up the radio with the increase in speed.
Also, it's easy to speed in the LS without realizing it. In contrast, you can judge your speed in the Sable by the increase in noise and vibration.
Typically for FWD, it has a rotten turning circle. Isolation is also poor from mechanical noise and vibration from the drivetrain. It reminds of my B.I.L's 96 Accord. Not a mechanically quiet car at all.
So the LS's weight has to do with refinement. It's thick glass and sandwich insulation makes for a quiet car. RWD keeps the drivetrain out of your steering wheel. It all adds up in cost and weight.
I have not driven alot of cars like Brian and Leadfoot have. But these NVH factors are important over the long haul. A lighter car might feel somewhat less refined.
The 2003 LS cuts 6.7 in 0-60. The lighter G35 does 6.2. One half second is probably the weight difference talking.
If I didn't have to haul bodies around, I would get a ZO-6 and lose my license. I want to get into the 5 second range in my next car.
Why is there such a difference between two doors and four?
Like add two doors and add two seconds. Cars don't have to be like that.
In July, I may just buy my lease out on the LS MTX and lease a two-door toy with the right numbers. Then I would have the "best of both worlds".
Oh, my dealer here in San Diego has a load of Navigators out front. Looks like the Great Wall of China. 20-24" Pimpmobile wheels are definitely in. I bet the dealer just adds them in as an option. Hey, it's better than vinyl roofs. I'd barf if I saw one of those on a Navi.
Anyway, my lease is running out in July and since my Jeep is paid for I am considering driving it for a while and saving up for a nice used 911 or vette. Since my wife has the minivan I am not sure I really need the sedan anymore. And the price for a used car and the jeep together is what I pay for the LS....
On the other hand. I love the LS. I can't wait to drive the '03....
I owned a 2000 LS8 since June of 2000. Had one of the first ones, it had been a "show car" and was fully loaded. Had it on a 3 yr lease and extended the lease for 6 months so I could get a 2003 LS. Ordered the 2003 LS from my dealer. Dealer could not get a delivery date. Kept putting me off, said he could not get a commitment from Lincoln. Got a call from Ford credit saying I had to turn my car in at the end of my lease extension, so not being able to get any kind of delivery date from the dealer--they said maybe early 2003, (could not get any info.), so turned in my LS and leased a Lexus GS430. Asked the dealer when I turned in my LS if he knew when the 2003 was coming in. Still said no information and no lease information. He then tells me that since I had a car on oder, Ford credit should not have told me I had to turn the car in at the end of the extension. The coordination between Ford credit, Lincoln, and the dealer was incredibably inept. Dealer said he was losing another customer who wanted a 2003 LS to BMW because they could not wait any longer. Two days after I turn LS in, but after I leased the Lexus, the dealer notifys me--guess what--the 2003 LS came in. Too late for me.
How can this happen that the car is shipped but no one knows?? If I had known, I could have waited the extra few days.
While I like the GS430 so far, I would have been happy with the the new LS. Now Lincoln may have lost me for good, who knows? This was a stupid way to handle my order and my lease.
I won't be monitoring this board any more as I no longer have an LS. Was a great car and I really enjoyed it.
There is absolutely no substantive evidence of LS airbags not deploying in accidents. Have you checked the NHTSA website to see if there any complaints about this?
I've found that there are lots of misconceptions out there regarding airbags. Front airbags are designed for frontal impacts and there is a threshold speed at which they deploy, usually around 12-14mph.
The LS has been named one of the 10 safest cars of all time. You stated that the back third of the car crumpled. That's exactly what it's supposed to do, it's a crumple zone. I'll bet that the passenger compartment remained intact. Therefore, you survived what was apparently a significant collision, there was no fire and you're here to talk about it. I think you should be thankful you were driving an LS instead of giving jeers to it.
DRolds, you mentioned the 'top ten' - whose list is it?
http://www.insure.com/auto/safestcars.html
It also named the '02 LS one of the safest of the 2002 models. Here's the article:
http://www.insure.com/auto/safecars/2002models.html
The LS was also in the top five vehicles with lowest risk of rollover according to NHTSA:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/02/13/rollover/
I couldn't find a top ten list...
I think the car is quite nice compared to the BMWs and Lexus I looked at.
<<<<<<<Consider the list of service issues: Ball Joint, Window Motors, Poor Quality Paint (especially on the pillars), Condensation inside the headlamps, Constant brake squeal (for 40K miles!), occasional phantom warning sounds, and truly abysmal transmission (that eventually left me stranded in an empty parking lot).>>>>>>>>
Well gee I had a wheel bearing go bad before 20K. That wasn't on your list. Byt hey, I haven't had a ball joint go bad, my paint is fine and no brake squeal. My auto is the best auto I have ever driven. The damn thing shifts like my old Hurst controled Ford top loader.
<<<<<<<<Unfortunately, my LS marriage ended abruptly after being rear-ended at high speed. The impact was enough to crumple the back 1/3 of the car, yet the airbags did not deploy. I have recently heard of other major accidents where LS airbags did not deploy. >>>>>..
Can you name a car that the airbags deploy when rear ended? I don't think that's possible with the sensors located in the front of the car. I'll bet you've opened a can of worms with this one though. Now there's going to be a whole flock of lawsuits by lawyers/people who read your post and are rear ended and their front airbags failed to deploy. Not that they were supposed to but because the manufacture failed to incorporate this feature.
One of the reasons I have a continued interest in the Lincoln LS is its exceptional crash performance. Kudos to Ford for a job well done.
robers1, as someone who saw and "kicked the tires" on the '03 LS many months ago, and has friends who have extensively tested it, trust me when I say it will be worth the wait.
As others have said, I am happy that the LS gave it's life to make sure you kept yours!
On a side note, I find it quite interesting all the complaining about things that are fixed under warranty, on someone elses dime! Cars are MACHINES made by HUMANS. They will NEVER be perfect!! And for all you BMW defecters; Ask the guys on the BMW board if they would own one that wasn't covered by a warranty!
Since I'm spending over 500 per month for a 2000 V6 I jumped all over that. Yes I know the 2002 is one model year old etc, but not knowing what the 03s will go for, I paid them a visit.
They had about 7 cars. Two qualified for the 399. V-8 base cars. The cars I wanted had the All season, free moonroof, polished wheels and upgraded radio. Sticker 39 +. Reduced MSRP by 2K or so, took off the 4K and I threw in 1398. Business manager says 430. I say 399. He says you're killing me. You are getting 2000 extra (55 per month) for nothing, We agree on 415.
They take my car, note the 5 or so dings, dent on hood, yellow paint on bumper and charge me ZERO. Lease lady says, don't worry the inspector (who is real cute)is my friend. True to her word. Her boss comes over, puts his arm around me and says thanks for bringing the car back in such great shape. All I did was have it washed before I brought it in.
Apparently Ford Credit re conditions it and auctions to Ford dealers only.
So, I'll be around for the next 3 years with my new 02.
I got the 02. REally like the V8