Lincoln LS

slunar

Don't forget that it took those Mensa members on the Edmunds review team over 2 years to figure out that the LS has its battery in the trunk.

Even better is that a year after those geniuses found the battery in the trunk, they still don't have a clue as to why it is there. IIRC one of their speculations for the reason that the battery is in the trunk was that because of poor design there was no room for it under the hood.

Host, Pat, I can mail you a 4' long 2x4 so you can go knock some sense into the Edmunds review team.....

On second thought forget it, nothing will help them at this point, all that would be accomplished would be to damage a perfectly good 2x4.

pat

Hi folks,

The Edmunds.com writers and the Town Hall hosts are two very separate entities. While I can certainly finds lots of uses for a 2x4 .... um, never mind ... I wouldn't be able to find an editor!

I will pass along the request for Liz Kim or someone else to stop by here. I have no idea if it can happen, but I surely will ask.

Meanwhile, for anyone who hasn't seen the article, you can get to it from the Helpful Links box on the left side of this page.

antonk

Do the tail lights on the new LS remind anyone else of the 94 Accord?

ezaircon4jc

No

scottc8

They're red.

ls1bmw0

Probably about as much as the BMW 5-series tail lights do. Look closer. The LS tail lights are more similar to a later 5-series, like the 540, than to an Accord.

stanny1

C&D just tested the LS V-8 in it's December issue.
They seem underwhelmed.
0-60 was half a second quicker at 6.7.
Skidpad performance was .84g.
Curb weight was 3907 lb.
Price was $47,390 as tested with "some" options.
The tranny "shifts with crisp precision". Good job Mark!
Overall, a more refined LS.
The article headliner is: "Lincoln takes 500 little steps forward, one big step back".
I'd like to see a one to one with a comparably priced 5 series.
They also said the grill reminded them of the Town Car?

akirby

The "comparably priced BMW" is a less than fully loaded 530i. Smaller, slower with less luxury features. The one C&D tested had every possible option. Not to mention the LS will sell for a few thousand under sticker while the BMW might be $1500 off, tops.

herman9

I read C&D's review and the theme of these reviews just never seems to change. They remind me of a Ford product review written by a Chevy fanatic or vice versa.

I also read C&D's Mazda 6 review and you can almost hear them muttering under their breath, "but it's not a Honda! -- but it's not a Toyota!".

You would think they would slip up once in a while and let professionalism dominate the review.

tprjim

I went out looking for a replacement for my leased 2000 LS and came across a brand new (250 miles) 2001 V-8 LS non-sport. The MSRP was $39,000.00 and the dealer was asking $29,900.00. Any thoughts on what would be a fair offering price?

joelincoln

I'd be more curious about what a car that is at least 16 months old and has only 250 miles on it has been doing all that time ???

Sitting in a lot? Why? Has it been properly stored for that long duration?

funkcity

Hey Pat,

How does Edmunds expect to retain credibility when her information is either outdated or completely erroneous.

Just because the LS is an American car does NOT give her the right to slam away.
A more objective view... or at least one with the accurate information would be a great place to start.

C'mon Edmunds is Edmunds and you know it.
Maybe they can get an objective non-partison accurate accounting of the NEW 03 LS next time.

One would assume that a sincere effort to be honest and educational would have been the hallmark of her report. But for what its worth, she just couldnt afford the effort or the time .
Well done Liz, youre beautiful.

rgnmstr

I'll tell you what you should be checking on. Ask the dealer to see a vehicle damage report. In Maryland they are required to show it to you without your asking. Before I bought my 2002 I went to look at a 2001 "left over" at a hot price in the paper which a crook salesman said he could even sell for less. When I got to the dealer and after 45 min. of conversation and I was ready to sign the salesman brings up the story the car had a scratch on the right rear fender that had been repainted. 10 min. later the scratch turned into the rear fender was replaced. 10 min. later the rear bumper was also replaced. 10 min. later the headlight had also been replaced. At this point I asked to see the manager. He proceeded to tell me how the car was a loaner for the owner's daughter and she had crashed into a wall and wiped out the whole right side of the car. If I remember the damage sheet said $8,000. The really wild part was that the manager said he couldn't knock anything off the price. I can only assume sone sap finally bought the car. Al Packer Ford. Silver Frost Sport. So if you are reading this and ..................

aviatorman

Just to inform that at lincoln.com they have a link for the '03 LS.

brucelinc

A few months ago when the the 2003 changes were outlined, I was very pleased with what I read. Lincoln had been listening! I will admit, though, that I was disappointed when I discovered that my favorite model, the non-sport V8 had been discontinued. Yes, I know I am in the minority on this one!

I am very eager to test drive a 2003 sport/premium model. I understand the ride has been improved. (compared to the old Sport model) The SST mode will allow 1st gear starts so that will eliminate one of my prior complaints with it.

For my tastes, and for broken, frost-heaved, pot-holed Minneapolis streets, I thought the old non-sport suspension tuning was fantastic. I am not criticizing the sport - I just liked the non-sport better for this environment.

I will not pass judgement until I have driven the new model. If the sport/premium is as compliant over broken pavement as the old non-sport while still offering sharper handling, Lincoln will deserve kudos.

akirby

According to first hand test reports you won't be disappointed.

koury

Forgive me for re-hashing a topic, but I need some advice. I've gotten 52K on my original 17" Firehawks and it's time to replace. My tires are 235/50/R17 95V rating. I've seen some folks on this board go with 245's and 255's; I'm not a tire guy so I don't know the difference. What should I be looking for?

Thanks in advance!!!!

ezaircon4jc

Been-there-DID-IT (the '03, that is)!! Like akirby said, I don't think you'll be dissapointed!! Don't believe ANYTHING the Edmunds review said. The car is FANTASTIC!

ezaircon4jc

koury,

What are you looking for? Comfort, handling, noise, wet/dry, light snow??? I wanted a performance tire as we don't get much snow or rain in San Diego. My first replacement set was Yokohama AVS dB in 245/47/17. They were really nice for about 5k miles. After that, they got progressively slippery and quite loud. I replaced them with Falken ZE-502 in 255/25/17. So far, after about 2500 miles, they are quiet. They handle very well. I have them on the wife-units Sable in 225/60/15. We had some rain a few weeks ago (yea, NOBODY knew what it was for a while;)) and the tires did very well.

Give out your parameters and we'll do our best.

lobsenza

Drop an email to me at LobsenzA@Rose-Grp.com and I will send a document to you with tire information.

koury

I live in MA, so snow is an issue. I do alot of highway driving (I'm in sales), but I'm not out looking for twisties on the weekend. I've been given quotes on replacement Firehawks ($169), Goodyear Eagle RSA (W rating, $228), Michelin Pilots ($259), and a Continental ($169). So it is a bit confusing to me as to what to look for.

joelincoln

Sounds like you want an all-weather tire that is competent in all conditions. I gather that you're not particularly concerned about the best cornering performance or the most aggressive tread.

Given that you got 52k out of your current 'hawks (which is incredible) I'd say that if you're pleased with the 'hawks, get them again. They're the least expensive good-performing tire of the group.

Kuhmo (sp?) makes a good alternative for around the same money. Can someone report comparitively on the two under various conditions? I hear they're quieter than the Firehawks.

koury

You can call 52K incredible, but it's more like stupidity. I am leaning towards the Firehawks, but I may lean towards the Michelins (either the Pilot A/S or MXM4). It will all come down to cost.

koury

BJ's Wholesales just quoted me on the Michelin MXM4 ($229) and the Pilot A/S ($221). Mounting/balancing, 36K road hazard, and lifetime tire rotation included in price. Is this a good deal?

joelincoln

I don't understand your comment...
"You can call 52K incredible, but it's more like stupidity"
Are you saying that it was stupid not to replace them sooner because they are worn to the cords?

Or something else ???

akirby

That's a very good price for the 235/50R17 OEM size Pilot Sport A/S. Pretty much identical to the price I got at Costco for mine. If you're willing to spend that much I *highly* recommend them. And since they come in the OEM size you don't have to worry about changing sizes. The MXM4's are the new OEM tire and while I haven't heard anything bad about them I haven't heard anything great, either. I think they may be a bit overpriced since they're OEM and most people will go for them based strictly on that fact.

koury

Thanks akirby. One other point about the Pilot A/S from BJ's - they are Z rated, not V (as listed on the Tiretrac website). Is this unusual, and should it be of any concern?

koury

Correction - I should have stated in my prior post that the Pilot A/S is a W rated tire on Tiretrac, not V.

mtnh

I just replaced two of my Firehawks with identical OEM sized Firehawks, and paid $268 for the pair, out the door. You may wish to shop a bit more for better prices if that is a concern. For the added price, you would get alot more for your money with the Pilots. I buy my tires in Nashua, NH, but I don't know if that is anywhere near your location in Mass. If it is, it may be worth a visit to save some scratch. By the way, I run Firestone Winterfires on my 2000 MTX LS in the winter, and they only cost $75 each, mounted, balanced, out the door. If you made it through last winter with 25-30 K miles on your 'hawks, you probably don't need snow tires.

Mike

Sylvia

Hi everyone...just an FYI, we tried to extend an invite to Liz Kim to pop into this discussion...but found out she is no longer with the company.

Subjective editorial is just that, but we are interested in factual errors. We are checking on getting some editorial input here.

Thanks!

koury

Yup, you are correct in what I was saying - it was stupid not to replace them sooner. I had my car in for service and the mechanic called me as soon as he brought it in.

heyjewel

Perhaps she took an offer to write ad copy for BMW.

stanny1

Is it true that there is no 03 Non-Sport? No more chrome on the bumpers?

joelincoln

Sylvia,
Thanks for keeping us updated. Are you looking for additional comments over and above what has been said already? I pointed out three factual errors in the review a few posts back.

Joe

joelincoln

Stanny,
For '03... ALL V6s will be non-sport (w/chrome) and ALL V8s will be Sport (no chrome).

Joe

scottc8

koury, I like the Firehawks, too, though I don't get 52k out of them. Just put a third set on at 60k. Could autocrossing have anything to do with it?:) Anyway, $169 does sound a bit steep. They're out of production but some Firestone stores still have them. Got mine for $130, so it pays to shop around.

tprjim, that could be a good deal, but I'll bet you could get real close to that price on a new '02. My dealer recently sold a new V8 Sport model with most of the options for $33k. As the '03 gets closer the '02 deals will keep getting better.

ls1bmw0

Cool. Now maybe we can get an objective and honest review of the 2003 LS. Sylvia are you looking for additional commentary or...?

stanny1

So the 03 V-8 will be considered the "performance" model. Makes sense.
C & D recorded a 6.7 0-60 for the 03 V-8 LS.
If it had a Tremec, I bet it would be right in 530i territory.

koury

I'm going to bite the bullet on the Pilot Sport A/S ($221 installed at BJ's). My only fear is that I may not get as much mileage out of these tires than the Firehawks; is that a safe assumption?

Thanks to all for their input.

lsv8

When I quoted a price of $205 that I'd seen for these tires in an online ad to my LINCOLN DEALER, they matched it -- go figure.

Of course I was also having them do a brake job and an oil change at the time, so that mitigated the discount somewhat.

rayainsw

" Cool. Now maybe we can get an objective and honest review of the 2003 LS. "

Any volunteers from this board?
- Ray
Who would be happy to drive an '03 and report in detail - or even keep one for an extended evaluation!

akirby

Koury - check tirerack.com for an explanation of tire speed ratings. I think it goes something like this: The highest rated tire used to be Z - 149 mph. But with higher performance cars they needed additional designations above 149 so they added W and Y which are higher than Z. IIRC W rated is 168 mph. I think it may be even more confusing because they call them both Z and W rated.

akirby

Did the $205 include mounting, balancing, road hazard, valve stems, etc.? Koury's price did and I doubt that the dealer would do that for $10/tire. It's usually closer to $30 or more. That's why I like Sam's/Costco/BJs - they don't rip you off on that part.

pat

Sylvia is saying we are trying to get an editor to come to this discussion ... more to follow.

koury

akirby - thanks for the explanation, but it is still kind of confusing. I just got back from BJ's, and the part number had both a Z and W in it, os who knows what it really is. All I know is that I'm walking out with complete installation, 36K road hazard and lifetime rotation for $221. I think that's a good deal.

fjk57702

http://www.goodyeartires.com/kyt/readingATire/

The speed rating (at least for goodyear) is with the load rating. Z is over 149 MPH and W is 168, so a W rating is also a Z rating I think.

peachtree103

Just bought a 2000 LS V8 Sport with bald tires (at 37K miles). First thing I did was put on a set of the Michelin Pilots. Total out the door price from my local Goodyear was right at $1100 (including an oil change and alignment). I know I could have shopped it and lowered the price, but they give me great service and are good people, so I spent a few extra dollars. Your price is good, hope you enjoy the next 52K miles in your LS.

Sylvia

If you spot one - feel free to email me sylvia@edmunds.com. Please give the error and what you think or know the correction to be.

Many thanks.

koury

How do you like the Pilots?

Looking forward to my next 52K LS miles - and hopefully more!

lolaj42

I just looked at today's Auto Section in the Arizona Republic Newspaper, lo and behold I see a photo and corresponding caption "Bird in flight". Introduced at the SEMA show in Vegas, the Saleen-bonspeed Edition of the Ford Thunderbird includes significant upgrades to body, interior, suspension and performance, including a supercharged engine that delivers 365 horsepower!

Will this be coming to an LS near you soon?