One thing we are here is civil. My "weird" comment was not directed at any one personally (and certainly not meant as an attack), it's just that as was said earlier, seat comfort hasn't been an issue. Are you in San Diego? I am. If you want to give my seat a try, just send me an email at mike.hall@llsoc.com I also really don't care a whole bunch about passenger comfort. Just ask the wife unit on one of those Julian trips .
That drive up to Julian can be a blast. That is, as long as you don't get stuck behind an RV or some guy pulling his horse trailer!
The electric parking brake is a technological advance as well as opening up room in the console. The '03 console is 100% bigger than the 00-02.
There is a service bulletin that addresses front seat comfort on the '00 and '01 models; the fix is to add a revised-density foam to the seat bottom. I don't believe that the TSB specifically applies to the '02, but it's possible that the same material could be involved. Since there's a service bulletin, it must've been a problem that was noted by multiple customers.
Like most of the other posters, I find the seats in my '01 V8 Sport to be extremely comfortable. Like you said, though, each person is different, and it's entirely possible that you and the '02 LS seats just aren't compatible. It happens sometimes.
The '03 LS starts rolling down the production line on Monday, so you should be able to try one at your local dealer by the end of the year, with any luck. Hope you find it to your liking, comfort-wise; it's a really remarkable car in so many ways, and the '03 should be an outstanding performance value compared to the competition.
I came of of a Lexus GS300 into a 02 LS and I can tell you that the LS seats are the most comfortable seats that I own. That includes the leather sofa and chair in my family room. If I could just get my big screen TV into the LS, I would be in heaven.
I believe some LS models do not have the power lumbar support (and maybe the power recline). I suspect the ones rented by Hertz lack these features. You may want to test drive one at a dealer. The sport suspension improves the handling characteristics over the base vehicle that Hertz has. You should also compare the V8 to V6. The sport will only be available on the V8 for 03.
Nothing more fun than taking the hairpin turns and doing four wheel drifts on the way to Julian. Then blasting down Banner Grade from the high pines to the desert floor at maximum speed.It's a whole new experience in an LS MTX with 245/45/17 Bridgestone Potenza SO-3 Pole Positions. Do this on a late weekday morning, and avoid the weekend warriors driving their appliances and flatulent Non-Sport Utility Vehicles.
Craig, I'm with you. A year ago I drove home from LSMania2 in Dearborn, 1250 miles in one shot, and never even changed the seating position to break up the monotony. If this car had a bigger gas tank it would need a bathroom.:)
no1trust, are you by chance a very tall man? Real tall people are the only ones I've ever heard complain about the seating position in the LS. ezair and myself are somewhat, um, "vertically challenged", the other guys posting here that I've met are a little taller. We have some big guys in our owners club and the seats are one thing just about everybody agrees on. Honest, not picking on you at all, you've just raised an unusual opinion. Do us a favor: if you end up buying something else that you find more comfortable, please post back here and let us know what it is.
Andy, the V6's have a manually adjustable lumbar support but all have power recline.
I'll just add my 2 cents in about the seats b/c I find them the most comfortable I've sat in. We make an 8-9 hour trip from NY to Maine every summer. Before we got the LS, I was happy to share the driving with my wife. Now I do the entire drive myself. Not only is the LS a blast to drive but I have no backache at the end of the trip and always feel like I could go longer.
johnnylinc: Wasn't aware of a TSB on the seats... I've only driven 02 V8 models at Hertz. Maybe it's just my personal preferences as far as seating, too.
ezair: "Wife unit" LOL. Thanks for your offer but I live in the Vegas area. The Boss (not Springsteen) also is relegated to passenger status only, unless I am too tired to drive (hasn't ever happened on LS drives). Since the 2003 is right around the corner, I'm patient enough to wait on it. HID, THX, yum! I hope the steering wheel controls are still as handy (I found the mute button very convenient).
lobsenza: No, all the Hertzs I rented were V8s; I made sure of that first before I plunked behind the wheel. To each their own, but I just was not interested in the V6 hp to even try it. The driveability of the LS was always most acceptable to me in the rentals. Every model had the power lumbar which was great.
I have also test driven them at the dealers; in fact I was initially put off by my first impression of the seat. I only learned to appreciate the LS's other attributes like its driveability when I could rent them for prolonged trips... I really couldn't do much evaluating on the 20 minute test drives from the dealer. If I like the 03, the additional hp will be just gravy; the 252 hp V8 was suitable for me.
scottc8: No, I'm not tall... I'm only 5'10 w/average build. But keep in mind that everyone my height is not necessarily built the same; some people have differing proportions. I know I cranked up the seat height in the G35 coupe in the driver's seat the same weekend as my last LS visit; for the first time in a car ever I bumped my head on the roof. I've never had that problem in the LS or any other car. That may be part of the problem; I'm not able to raise the seat as much as I prefer in the LS, unlike some other models.
craigcurry: Glad you find your seat that comfortable, but so far no car seat for me can match my LaZboy w/bomber leather. Do I really want to get TOO comfortable behind the wheel?
stanny1: I'm just too chicken to blast thru hairpin turns or do anything like max speed; though the car would be my toy I still have my Boss as a passenger who would freak if I go excessively fast or whip around curves (Julian being a prime example... she was worried even with my relatively sedate driving). I get my kicks in the LS watching the Honda Accords' headlights getting smaller in my rear view, especially going up I-15 mountain grades. Of course the luxury makes a difference too, otherwise I could get any street rod to do that.
I have found other cars w/more comfortable seating for me, but I'm not trying to get involved in a comparo board and all that emotion. I'm trying to get a Big 3 "reward" that fits most of my wants & needs. Because of the price range there may be tradeoffs in some features I want; I guess there is no perfect car in this price range for me yet. Like I indicated before, I'm willing to try out the 03 when it gets here before I buy.
One other idea. The bottom of the seat cusihion adjusts separately form the back. So, by raising/lowering the bottom cushion, you change where the lumbar hits you in the back.
I might be misunderstanding you. Is there a separate control for the seat cushion on the back of the seat (Hertz loves to remove manuals apparently)? Or is it one of the controls along the sides?
I know what you mean about different builds. I'm 5' 7" but tall from the waist up like my Dad and both brothers. Dad says people think we're tall until we stand up.:) I have my seat all the way down, but way forward to accomodate my short legs. They (tall) guys in the service dept. at my dealer have learned to move the seat back before they try to get in, and get out of the car before hitting the memory button to restore my settings.:)
just got an email from a local dealer. Has a brand new, 2002 LSE FULLY loaded for $35,200. Tempting. I actually like the looks of the 2002 LSE over the looks of the pics Ive seen of the 2003 LS. BUT, the improvements to a fully loaded 2003 LS are VERY darn nice. But are they several thousand dollars nice? I can only imagine the pricing on a 2002 LSE will only drop even further once the 2003's hit the lots.
notrust - the power adjustments available in the LS driver's seat are:
forward - back up - down seat back tilt seat cushion tilt lumbar
The seat cushion that tilts independent of the back is really great. Once you get used to it, it becomes a can't do without feature. How the cushion is tilted also seems to affect how high you can make the seat go. I'm 6'2 and like to have the seat as high as it can go to give me extra leg room.
Ronnie - when I was considering getting an '02 back in Sept, 2 different dealers were desperate to get rid of their LSE's. One salesman must have told me 30 times that he could have get me in an '02 V-8 LSE for less than my '00 V-8 base lease payments.
One reason for the LSE fire sale may be insurance. If you saw the thread here and another one at that other LS chat site, a couple of different LSE owners appeared to be getting hosed on their LSE insurance. One complained to his ins. co, and was told that the high rates were due to the high LSE repair cost.
I know it doesn't make a lot of sense as liability should be the bulk of the insurance cost and not the extra cost to repair those fancy body panels. But just look at how much more the owners of any special model of any car have to pay. I think that it is an excuse by the ins. industry to milk some extra profits. The thought process is: "If you're going to pay extra for a fancy model we know we can suck a lot more ins. $$ out of you too." I've been looking at used Mustangs for a 3rd car that will be driven less than 5,000 miles a year and spend most of its life in my garage (married near midle age, no points, have not made an ins. claim home or car in 15 years). 3 ins. co's. told me that a Mustang Cobra would cost 2 times what a Mustang GT would run! That's a lot of $$ for a couple of body panels and 40 more HP!
Slunar. OUCH! WOW! Had no idea that insurance rates (i guess I shoulda been paying more attention to the forum here) were higher for the LSE. I can understand something like an M3 or M5 being higher than a 528 or 540, but for a car with the same performance (LS vs LSE), I cant understand it, but thanks for the heads up.
What I was trying to say is that using the controls on the side of the seat to move the seat bottom cushion up and down will effect where the lumbar hits your back. So, if the lumber does not hit your back in the correct place, adjusting the bottom cushion up or down may fix the problem.
My 2000 V6 Sport Auto has a chemical or petroleum odor (not burning) getting into the cabin, it dosent appear to be from the AC although it seems to be coming in through the ventilation system. Ive asked the dealer twice to correct it but they couldnt identify the problem. I remember earlier posts complaining about this. Has anyone else had this problem and had it repaired. I would appreciate any comments
This is strictly from memory, so take it FWIW, but I think a long while back someone had a very slight brake fluid leak in the area of the master cylinder/fluid reservoir, near the firewall on the driver's side. IIRC the fluid was making it's way to a hot part of the engine and causing the smell.
I recently had my 2000 LS in for a leaking LH valve cover. It leaked at the rear of the engine, down on to the exhaust manifold. I thought that this leak was "unique", however a friend of mine recently purchased a used 2001, and had to have the same repair done last week. His dealer told him that this leak is not all that uncommon. I also have a master cylinder that's always "wet". I replaced the cap, but that didn't fix the problem. I added a "shim" between the cap and gasket and that's helped somewhat.
wow. Anyone else amazed at how the HP wars continue to escalate? Just read that the new E Class E55 AMG will have 455HP from its Supercharged V8. And to think I thought the petty 400hp from the naturally aspirated BMW M5 was sufficient. lol.
The M5 just came out on top in a four car test in the December 2002 Automobile magazine article "World's Best Sedan". The other contenders were the Mercedes E55 AMG, Audi RS6, and Jaguar S-Type R. The M5 was second fastest in 0-60 (Audi was fastest) and tied with the AMG in track time as slowest, with the Jag the fastest and Audi second (So much for Quattro superiority). So the M5's mere 394 hp was quite sufficient. Here's my take: The M5 was the only naturally aspirated, was among the heaviest of the four, and had the lowest torque of the bunch. So what gives? Simple. The M5 was the only car with a Manual Transmission. That's worth quite a few horsepower and lots of torque. Torque converters are torque sponges. It takes power to shift an automatic. I bet the M5 was first off the line. It takes a lot more power to make an automatic faster. All three automatics had boost. My dream car is an M5. I do dream about other cars fitted with manuals. Like the GS400, new LS, and other cars that would be a blast with a Manual. I'm 54 and have only 20 more years to drive the many manuals that are starting to proliferate as the rear wheel drive renaissance continues and the SUV Revolt gathers steam. And before some idiot makes Middle East oil unobtainable and gas is real expensive. Enjoy life and control life while you can still shift! I like what the Jag commercial implies: You promised yourself a Jaguar...Someday.(Someday is NOW!) There are no guarantees on tomorrow. Lose weight NOW! Clean up your diet NOW! Drive your balls off NOW!
FYI, I traded in my '01 LS for an '02 LSE and my insurance rates here in Atlanta increased $9/mo - negligible from almost anyone's perspective, I'll wager.
What was the cost of fixing the valve cover leak? Did they just tighten it up or replace the seal? I had this done on a FWD northstar (under warranty) and the cost was said to be $1200. Probably to remove the engine.
I really don't know what the cost was, as it was covered by warranty, and the "parts and labor" portion of the invoice wasn't visible on the "customer copy". I seem to recall the service writer mentioning something about 2 hours of labor, so it couldn't have been too much. I had taken the spark plugs out for an inspection this past June, just before going on vacation. The left bank was annoying, due to the master cylinder's presence, but I still had the four in and out in a little less than an hour. I think that "R&Ring" the valve cover probably would have taken another 45-60 min, so the 2 hour number that I had heard was probably fairly accurate.
You are sooooo right here. I do not have a MTX right now but my next car will. Even driving in LA, being "involved" with the driving process is everything!
Pretty soon EVERYTHING will be "by wire" just like a video game. No feel, no connection synthesized isolation etc...
Power, control and feel are things that will seemingly be lost in the process. So as you implied, It's time to have fun NOW! :-)
On Motorweek's review of the Aviator they noted the performance of the mini-Navigator and said if the Lincoln LS was a SUV it would be the Aviator. They got a 0-60 run of 6.9 seconds! Which I find hard to believe given C&D only got 7.6 seconds and they usually torque brake to the max for the fastest times. Could be an error or unusual climate conditions. Or may they were testing downhill with a strong tailwind. Either way mid 7's is very good for such a heavy vehicle.
Gee - I wonder if there are any other Lincoln applications for a 300 hp 4.6L engine??
It sounds like the Aviator has the old Conti/Cobra/Navigator Intech but tuned for more torque. It could very well do a sub 7 second in it's lighter form. It's the BMW X5 of the American SUV's! ? Why do they put such great engines in trucks, and are afraid to in cars? It's an industry wide phenomenon. Trucks first, then cars (maybe).GM, Chrysler and Ford have the parts, but for some reason are afraid to put them together in cars. Maybe you and I wouldn't buy the Aviator drivetrain in a car for the Aviator's price? Like, where's the line?
Gary, not talking about '03's I'm looking at used 01's which is GT 260 HP vs. Cobra 300 HP or so.
LSE insurance as I said their is no logic in it but a while back someone did post here that their ins. co. said it was so expensive because it was a LSE. His ins. co. could have been jerking him around. Naw an ins. co. would never do that, they always do everything possible to give you the lowest rate.
I've seen a lot of discussion about how the Lincoln LS stacks up with the perhaps more widely accepted "Luxury Sedans", and a lot of people (and publications) seem to have a prejudice towards certain "foreign" competitors. However, perhaps they should read the news bit I found via Yahoo about the "cost of luxury":
I just bought a Magellan Meridian Platinum. It's a handheld unit which you can mount in a car. I bought it from Compuplus.com which had the best price overall. I got it with the Mapsend Streets and Destinations USA CD and auto mounting bracket for around $310 delivered (after $50 rebate).
I just got it and am still learning all the ins and outs but so far it works great. I've mounted it on the dash just inside the driver's A-pillar.
In this price range, I think this unit outperforms Garmins offerings especially since it accepts Secure Digital cards for memory expansion. Garmin sells a really nice unit called SteetPilot but its in the $750 range.
Just to add a bit to the info on insurance rates on limited edition sports cars. My insurance company (21st century) quoted me a 6 month rate on a 2003 Mustang Mach 1 of around $1,475. This compares to around $450 for an '03 GT. Reason given was it's performance and repair costs.
mwmcdonald1, you should call some other ins. co's and see if they have more reasonable rates. But as I posted before, the ins. co's will use any excuse they can to squeeze more money out of you. I was quoted 2x for a 01 Cobra Mustang vs. a GT. Although the VIN might not tell if it is a special model, several ins. co's I called for rates asked, after I gave them the VIN, if it was a "Special" model. So you should probably play dumb when they ask.
Used luxury cars are no bargains. There have been many articles like the one that was the link was just posted to that have documented how used Mercedes, BMW's etc. are a very expensive propositions. A friend of mine is a Mercedes bigot. He keeps buying junky old high mileage Mercedes and then gets hosed on repairs. I've given up trying to explain to him how he's buying an old junk and then paying through the nose to keep it running. He has drunk too much Mercedes Cool Aid and just mumbles in response about how low the depreciation on a Mercedes is.
Even new Mercedes can be expensive to own. I have a distant relative that has more $$ than brains. Every 3 or 4 years he gets a new Mercedes S class. To me it is supposed to have FREE maintenance and warranty. Every time he takes it in for his "FREE" oil change, his dealer figures out how to run up $500 or more in billable repairs. The most ridiculous thing about it to me is that he thinks that Mercedes and the dealer are taking good car of him when they tell him that he had a cracked trim piece, so they replaced it @ $300 for the part and $150 for labor. He once even told me, those guys are really good, I didn't even notice that anything was wrong!
Does your Magellan have voice prompts? I got spoiled w/voice prompts on Hertz's LS rentals (they use a Magellan Neverlost system... really added to the enjoyment of trips).
I've been looking at the Garmin Streetpilot myself; with the voice it's worth the $700+ in my opinion, since it's also transferrable to other vehicles too. Hopefully prices will continue to fall like VCRs & DVD players, so it'll be cheaper yet w/the car purchase.
no1trust, No, the Meridian does not have voice. You need to spend the extra money and get the StreetPilot if you want that.
The Meridian is transferrable to other vehicles as well since, like the StreetPilot, it is handheld. Clearly, the StreetPilot, at twice the price, is a better unit. But I was not willing to spend that extra money now because of two reasons... 1- New technology comes out all the time and I would expect that these units will be surpassed by better stuff in a couple of years. 2- The 2003 LS has DVD navigation built in. :-)
I looked at the Magellan Maridian on some web sites, but couldn't find enough information to judge how it compares with the Garmin.
I have the earlier model of Garmin's ColorMap Street Pilot, and it doesn't have the voice prompts, nor does it have the ability to automatically create routes between specified points (that the new Street Pilot DOES have). I can change routes that I have uploaded to it, and I can manually add new routes to the unit itself, on a point by point basis, but it is a slow and tedious process.
However, the Garmin support software I run on my PC is quite wonderful! It makes it very easy to generate routes according to specified criteria, such as shortest time, shortest distance, avoid interstates or not, etc. Then, it is quite easy to manually modifiy those routes.
However, for long trips, I run into limits on the number of waypoints per route that I can upload to my old version of the Street Pilot and have to subdivide a too-big route into additional routes until I run into the limit on the number of routes (20 I think). Of course, if I had a laptop computer to take on trips with me, I could generate new routes with that and upload them as needed.
The new Street Pilot has much better limits and it is also a much faster unit. Anyway, my point is that the quality and features of the supporting PC software is also an important element when choosing a GPS unit.
If you read it be prepared to have your blood pressure increase substantially. It supports their reputation for the typical drivel: It's good for AMERICAN car but it just can't hang with the TRUE sport sedans. They even complain about how awful the '00 model was surmising that this one will far no better.
Ok - I'm changing this post after reading the entire article. I think a good subtitle would be:
Lincoln LS - the car we really don't want to like but can't find anything wrong with.
If you skip the complaining about the previous model they actually sound impressed - although not as impressed as we think they should be. Actually better than I expected. One problem, though:
So the Edmunds testers think that the '00 LS had a "dearth of luxury features" because it didn't have dual-zone climate control, huh? Their test vehicle was unique, then, because every single LS built since inception has had dual-zone climate control as STANDARD EQUIPMENT. (Except for the one they tested, apparently; perhaps Ford removed it from the test car as a prank.) Are these people too dense to read the owner's manual and/or examine the control switches that are in plain sight right there on the console? Maybe they were just dizzy from trying to find the battery...
What does it say about the credibility and objectivity of a test team when it can't collectively locate either a battery in a trunk or dual-zone switches on a console? Sheesh.
"While no alterations have been made [to the transmission]" WRONG, the tranny is now synchronous and has one less clutch.
"...dearth of luxury features that other cars of this class offer, such as dual-zone climate control..." WRONG, already noted but blatently in error.
"Go the whole hog with the V8 Premium Sport and receive ... the aforementioned sport suspension." WRONG, the V8 Sport also comes with the sport suspension.
Pathetic.
Hey, Pat. Why don't you invite one of these reviewers to our townhall.
Have been away for a long time. My '00 LS V6 has been doing fine. One problem with the roof liner, but that was fixed under warranty. Just bought an '02 Mountaineer, V6 to handle the snow conditions in the Adirondacks. Not having a good start with a couple of fixes right out of the showroom. However, the big one concerns the transmission. It is very klunky and between 30-40 there is a pronounced vibration. Reflashing did not help. I know this is the LS board, but I am hoping that Mark is still posting and can tell me something about this transmission. I have posted on the Mountaineer boards, but there is not a lot of activity there. Thanks Mark in advance!
Comments
That drive up to Julian can be a blast. That is, as long as you don't get stuck behind an RV or some guy pulling his horse trailer!
The electric parking brake is a technological advance as well as opening up room in the console. The '03 console is 100% bigger than the 00-02.
Like most of the other posters, I find the seats in my '01 V8 Sport to be extremely comfortable. Like you said, though, each person is different, and it's entirely possible that you and the '02 LS seats just aren't compatible. It happens sometimes.
The '03 LS starts rolling down the production line on Monday, so you should be able to try one at your local dealer by the end of the year, with any luck. Hope you find it to your liking, comfort-wise; it's a really remarkable car in so many ways, and the '03 should be an outstanding performance value compared to the competition.
Do this on a late weekday morning, and avoid the weekend warriors driving their appliances and flatulent Non-Sport Utility Vehicles.
no1trust, are you by chance a very tall man? Real tall people are the only ones I've ever heard complain about the seating position in the LS. ezair and myself are somewhat, um, "vertically challenged", the other guys posting here that I've met are a little taller. We have some big guys in our owners club and the seats are one thing just about everybody agrees on. Honest, not picking on you at all, you've just raised an unusual opinion. Do us a favor: if you end up buying something else that you find more comfortable, please post back here and let us know what it is.
I'll just add my 2 cents in about the seats b/c I find them the most comfortable I've sat in. We make an 8-9 hour trip from NY to Maine every summer. Before we got the LS, I was happy to share the driving with my wife. Now I do the entire drive myself. Not only is the LS a blast to drive but I have no backache at the end of the trip and always feel like I could go longer.
Wasn't aware of a TSB on the seats... I've only driven 02 V8 models at Hertz. Maybe it's just my personal preferences as far as seating, too.
ezair:
"Wife unit" LOL. Thanks for your offer but I live in the Vegas area. The Boss (not Springsteen) also is relegated to passenger status only, unless I am too tired to drive (hasn't ever happened on LS drives). Since the 2003 is right around the corner, I'm patient enough to wait on it. HID, THX, yum! I hope the steering wheel controls are still as handy (I found the mute button very convenient).
lobsenza:
No, all the Hertzs I rented were V8s; I made sure of that first before I plunked behind the wheel. To each their own, but I just was not interested in the V6 hp to even try it. The driveability of the LS was always most acceptable to me in the rentals. Every model had the power lumbar which was great.
I have also test driven them at the dealers; in fact I was initially put off by my first impression of the seat. I only learned to appreciate the LS's other attributes like its driveability when I could rent them for prolonged trips... I really couldn't do much evaluating on the 20 minute test drives from the dealer. If I like the 03, the additional hp will be just gravy; the 252 hp V8 was suitable for me.
scottc8:
No, I'm not tall... I'm only 5'10 w/average build. But keep in mind that everyone my height is not necessarily built the same; some people have differing proportions. I know I cranked up the seat height in the G35 coupe in the driver's seat the same weekend as my last LS visit; for the first time in a car ever I bumped my head on the roof. I've never had that problem in the LS or any other car. That may be part of the problem; I'm not able to raise the seat as much as I prefer in the LS, unlike some other models.
craigcurry:
Glad you find your seat that comfortable, but so far no car seat for me can match my LaZboy w/bomber leather. Do I really want to get TOO comfortable behind the wheel?
stanny1:
I'm just too chicken to blast thru hairpin turns or do anything like max speed; though the car would be my toy I still have my Boss as a passenger who would freak if I go excessively fast or whip around curves (Julian being a prime example... she was worried even with my relatively sedate driving). I get my kicks in the LS watching the Honda Accords' headlights getting smaller in my rear view, especially going up I-15 mountain grades. Of course the luxury makes a difference too, otherwise I could get any street rod to do that.
I have found other cars w/more comfortable seating for me, but I'm not trying to get involved in a comparo board and all that emotion. I'm trying to get a Big 3 "reward" that fits most of my wants & needs. Because of the price range there may be tradeoffs in some features I want; I guess there is no perfect car in this price range for me yet. Like I indicated before, I'm willing to try out the 03 when it gets here before I buy.
I know what you mean about different builds. I'm 5' 7" but tall from the waist up like my Dad and both brothers. Dad says people think we're tall until we stand up.:) I have my seat all the way down, but way forward to accomodate my short legs. They (tall) guys in the service dept. at my dealer have learned to move the seat back before they try to get in, and get out of the car before hitting the memory button to restore my settings.:)
forward - back
up - down
seat back tilt
seat cushion tilt
lumbar
The seat cushion that tilts independent of the back is really great. Once you get used to it, it becomes a can't do without feature. How the cushion is tilted also seems to affect how high you can make the seat go. I'm 6'2 and like to have the seat as high as it can go to give me extra leg room.
Ronnie - when I was considering getting an '02 back in Sept, 2 different dealers were desperate to get rid of their LSE's. One salesman must have told me 30 times that he could have get me in an '02 V-8 LSE for less than my '00 V-8 base lease payments.
One reason for the LSE fire sale may be insurance. If you saw the thread here and another one at that other LS chat site, a couple of different LSE owners appeared to be getting hosed on their LSE insurance. One complained to his ins. co, and was told that the high rates were due to the high LSE repair cost.
I know it doesn't make a lot of sense as liability should be the bulk of the insurance cost and not the extra cost to repair those fancy body panels. But just look at how much more the owners of any special model of any car have to pay. I think that it is an excuse by the ins. industry to milk some extra profits. The thought process is: "If you're going to pay extra for a fancy model we know we can suck a lot more ins. $$ out of you too." I've been looking at used Mustangs for a 3rd car that will be driven less than 5,000 miles a year and spend most of its life in my garage (married near midle age, no points, have not made an ins. claim home or car in 15 years). 3 ins. co's. told me that a Mustang Cobra would cost 2 times what a Mustang GT would run! That's a lot of $$ for a couple of body panels and 40 more HP!
I think it's more like 130 HP difference ... 390 vs. 260.
G.
I thought that this leak was "unique", however a friend of mine recently purchased a used 2001, and had to have the same repair done last week. His dealer told him that this leak is not all that uncommon.
I also have a master cylinder that's always "wet". I replaced the cap, but that didn't fix the problem. I added a "shim" between the cap and gasket and that's helped somewhat.
The other contenders were the Mercedes E55 AMG, Audi RS6, and Jaguar S-Type R.
The M5 was second fastest in 0-60 (Audi was fastest) and tied with the AMG in track time as slowest, with the Jag the fastest and Audi second (So much for Quattro superiority).
So the M5's mere 394 hp was quite sufficient.
Here's my take:
The M5 was the only naturally aspirated, was among the heaviest of the four, and had the lowest torque of the bunch.
So what gives?
Simple.
The M5 was the only car with a Manual Transmission.
That's worth quite a few horsepower and lots of torque.
Torque converters are torque sponges. It takes power to shift an automatic. I bet the M5 was first off the line.
It takes a lot more power to make an automatic faster. All three automatics had boost.
My dream car is an M5. I do dream about other cars fitted with manuals. Like the GS400, new LS, and other cars that would be a blast with a Manual.
I'm 54 and have only 20 more years to drive the many manuals that are starting to proliferate as the rear wheel drive renaissance continues and the SUV Revolt gathers steam.
And before some idiot makes Middle East oil unobtainable and gas is real expensive.
Enjoy life and control life while you can still shift!
I like what the Jag commercial implies: You promised yourself a Jaguar...Someday.(Someday is NOW!) There are no guarantees on tomorrow.
Lose weight NOW! Clean up your diet NOW! Drive your balls off NOW!
I had taken the spark plugs out for an inspection this past June, just before going on vacation. The left bank was annoying, due to the master cylinder's presence, but I still had the four in and out in a little less than an hour. I think that "R&Ring" the valve cover probably would have taken another 45-60 min, so the 2 hour number that I had heard was probably fairly accurate.
Where, how, from whom and for how much?
Still love my LS with 40K miles!
Thanks.
al
You are sooooo right here.
I do not have a MTX right now but my next car will.
Even driving in LA, being "involved" with the driving process is everything!
Pretty soon EVERYTHING will be "by wire" just like a video game. No feel, no connection synthesized isolation etc...
Power, control and feel are things that will seemingly be lost in the process.
So as you implied, It's time to have fun NOW! :-)
On Motorweek's review of the Aviator they noted the performance of the mini-Navigator and said if the Lincoln LS was a SUV it would be the Aviator. They got a 0-60 run of 6.9 seconds! Which I find hard to believe given C&D only got 7.6 seconds and they usually torque brake to the max for the fastest times. Could be an error or unusual climate conditions. Or may they were testing downhill with a strong tailwind. Either way mid 7's is very good for such a heavy vehicle.
Gee - I wonder if there are any other Lincoln applications for a 300 hp 4.6L engine??
It's the BMW X5 of the American SUV's! ?
Why do they put such great engines in trucks, and are afraid to in cars? It's an industry wide phenomenon. Trucks first, then cars (maybe).GM, Chrysler and Ford have the parts, but for some reason are afraid to put them together in cars.
Maybe you and I wouldn't buy the Aviator drivetrain in a car for the Aviator's price?
Like, where's the line?
LSE insurance as I said their is no logic in it but a while back someone did post here that their ins. co. said it was so expensive because it was a LSE. His ins. co. could have been jerking him around. Naw an ins. co. would never do that, they always do everything possible to give you the lowest rate.
http://www.marketwatch.com/pf/life/default.asp?id=2&siteid=mktw
Go to this link and then look for the story, "A luxury used car could prove costly".
How does $500 or $600 sound to have a stuck key in your ignition fixed?
I just got it and am still learning all the ins and outs but so far it works great. I've mounted it on the dash just inside the driver's A-pillar.
In this price range, I think this unit outperforms Garmins offerings especially since it accepts Secure Digital cards for memory expansion. Garmin sells a really nice unit called SteetPilot but its in the $750 range.
I did NOT place the order for the Mach 1.
Used luxury cars are no bargains. There have been many articles like the one that was the link was just posted to that have documented how used Mercedes, BMW's etc. are a very expensive propositions. A friend of mine is a Mercedes bigot. He keeps buying junky old high mileage Mercedes and then gets hosed on repairs. I've given up trying to explain to him how he's buying an old junk and then paying through the nose to keep it running. He has drunk too much Mercedes Cool Aid and just mumbles in response about how low the depreciation on a Mercedes is.
Even new Mercedes can be expensive to own. I have a distant relative that has more $$ than brains. Every 3 or 4 years he gets a new Mercedes S class. To me it is supposed to have FREE maintenance and warranty. Every time he takes it in for his "FREE" oil change, his dealer figures out how to run up $500 or more in billable repairs. The most ridiculous thing about it to me is that he thinks that Mercedes and the dealer are taking good car of him when they tell him that he had a cracked trim piece, so they replaced it @ $300 for the part and $150 for labor. He once even told me, those guys are really good, I didn't even notice that anything was wrong!
I've been looking at the Garmin Streetpilot myself; with the voice it's worth the $700+ in my opinion, since it's also transferrable to other vehicles too. Hopefully prices will continue to fall like VCRs & DVD players, so it'll be cheaper yet w/the car purchase.
No, the Meridian does not have voice. You need to spend the extra money and get the StreetPilot if you want that.
The Meridian is transferrable to other vehicles as well since, like the StreetPilot, it is handheld. Clearly, the StreetPilot, at twice the price, is a better unit. But I was not willing to spend that extra money now because of two reasons...
1- New technology comes out all the time and I would expect that these units will be surpassed by better stuff in a couple of years.
2- The 2003 LS has DVD navigation built in. :-)
Joe
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
2002 Ford Thunderbird
2003 http://www.motortrend.com/
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=13573
Cheers,
- Ray
Who would love to hear this idling under the tree on Christmas morning . . .
I have the earlier model of Garmin's ColorMap Street Pilot, and it doesn't have the voice prompts, nor does it have the ability to automatically create routes between specified points (that the new Street Pilot DOES have). I can change routes that I have uploaded to it, and I can manually add new routes to the unit itself, on a point by point basis, but it is a slow and tedious process.
However, the Garmin support software I run on my PC is quite wonderful! It makes it very easy to generate routes according to specified criteria, such as shortest time, shortest distance, avoid interstates or not, etc. Then, it is quite easy to manually modifiy those routes.
However, for long trips, I run into limits on the number of waypoints per route that I can upload to my old version of the Street Pilot and have to subdivide a too-big route into additional routes until I run into the limit on the number of routes (20 I think). Of course, if I had a laptop computer to take on trips with me, I could generate new routes with that and upload them as needed.
The new Street Pilot has much better limits and it is also a much faster unit. Anyway, my point is that the quality and features of the supporting PC software is also an important element when choosing a GPS unit.
Lincoln LS - the car we really don't want to like but can't find anything wrong with.
If you skip the complaining about the previous model they actually sound impressed - although not as impressed as we think they should be. Actually better than I expected. One problem, though:
"but we like the new wheel designs."
NOBODY likes the new wheels.
What does it say about the credibility and objectivity of a test team when it can't collectively locate either a battery in a trunk or dual-zone switches on a console? Sheesh.
"While no alterations have been made [to the transmission]" WRONG, the tranny is now synchronous and has one less clutch.
"...dearth of luxury features that other cars of this class offer, such as dual-zone climate control..." WRONG, already noted but blatently in error.
"Go the whole hog with the V8 Premium Sport and receive ... the aforementioned sport suspension." WRONG, the V8 Sport also comes with the sport suspension.
Pathetic.
Hey, Pat. Why don't you invite one of these reviewers to our townhall.
I do know that there were a few software releases, but it sounds like you already had the updated software installed.
Unfortunately I don't have any other ideas.
Mark