What I was referring to was another lame comment about the demise of the MTX. Now it's that the demand was only from the "auto writers". I think the initial demand came from the value buyers who wanted either a less expensive 5 series or an American-made BMW 525/528. In early 2000. The LS MTX was the ONLY RWD, 4 door, Manual sedan other than the BMW, who had that market by itself since the mid-80's, when the FWD plague took over. As time wore on, we got the IS300, etc. With higher performance alternatives available, LS MTX sales fell and there was no justification to spend "upgrade" money in the post Jacque/Firestone tightwad world. I think that the LS MTX was only invented as a European export model. But when Jac bought Volvo, it became a domestic only model. I think another factor in it's demise early on was lack of enthusiasm by Lincoln to promote the car and the virtual gauntlet that the dealers put up to prevent you from buying one. I would like to see an LM VP tell us the real story about the LS MTX. But please don't put all the blame on the "auto writers", although they had a hard time figuring out the LS, just as we had as consumers had a hard time figuring out LM's intentions with the car.
Chris Theodore has it wrong. The demise of the MTX LS was not because "only auto writers wanted one", it was because 98% of Lincoln dealers didn't want a MTX LS. In addition, it was the dealers, not the customers, who wanted only 4 LS models.
A classic battle of who the manufactur's customer really is. The owner of the car should be the customer, but apparantly Ford (Lincoln) thinks that the dealers are their customers.
11 LS models, way too many. 4 LS models, especially when 1 of the 4 is a stripper fleet special that can't even be optioned up to a reasonable equipment level, is way too few. 6 configurations (5 for the real customers and 1 for Hertz) would be more in line with the market.
The Kelley "review" is, in fact, a puff piece. You don't have to drive the car to understand that; you just have to read the review. A serious evaluation balances the pluses and the minuses. Even great cars have some negatives, but not according to this review. Either it's a puff piece, or the '03 LS is the greatest car ever manufactured in the history of the universe and beyond.
Unfortunately, the dealers ARE the customer for the car maker. You and I cannot buy directly from a car maker. They sell almost every unit to a dealer.
So, that makes the dealers, the customers of Ford/LM. That also explains why when you have problems with dealer service, you are just as likely to get no help from Ford's customer service staff, as you are to get some help.
TB Drives a discontinued SVT Sports Sedan, and would only consider a manual tranny LS, if anyone from Lincoln is listening here. I guess Lincoln wants me to buy a BMW, Lexus, Infinii or Caddy to get my manual tranny RWD sports sedan.
The dealers MAY be the customers of L-M, however it is L-M that does the bulk of the advertising. If L-M had pumped up the MTX as a BMW competitor through their ads, maybe the dealers would have stocked them. I never saw where L-M did this, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
tboner, technically you are correct, the dealers are Ford's customers, they place the orders and pay the invoices.
In a past job I was deeply involved in a this sort of situation. At one point the manufacturer I worked for started thinking that their distributors were their customers and made some bad decisions at the request of and for the benefit of the distributors. The end user customers were of course the ones who started getting the short end of the stick, until the manu. wised up.
The point is that Ford needs to balance the dealer's desires (simple product line with high profit) with the final customers desire (get exactly what they want, quickly and at a great price).
At this point most of the auto companies wish they could sell to us directly. However due to the political power the dealers have and the franchise protection laws they got passed this will never happen.
The KBB review, just like the Det News review are not in depth critical reviews. They are first drive impressions. The press was invited to take a test drive of the '03 LS. Apparently to your chagrin both were very impressed with the '03 LS and thankfully gave their honest impressions. IIRC the only negative Det News mentioned is that they wanted quicker down shifting.
If you local newspaper has a Saturday auto section you will find that it is full of similar positive (fluff) short term reviews of all kinds of cars some of which are real dogs. In a short test you generally don't see a cars faults, unless they are really glaring.
Simply sounds to me like the '03 LS left such a positive impression that neither reviewer thought much about any negatives.
When the car rags get their hands on an '03 LS for an extended test I'm sure they will find some shortcomings with it.
In the mean time get used to the '03 LS being good enough that it's positives overwhelm any negatives it has.
As much as I would like to have an MTX, I'm glad I didn't get one. Too much stop-and-go traffic. In the end I believe it was we, the customer, that caused the demise of the MTX. Even though most dealers didn't/wouldn't stock them (the SM at my dealer told me that the MTX cars had a 96 day turn-around), we could still order them. We didn't in large enough numbers to make the MTX viable. I understand the sadness of the demise of the MTX, but Ford needs to make money and a 96 day turnaround just doesn't cut it for the dealers. Do I think the LS needs a manual (even though the supercars are dropping the true manual and going for those stupid paddle shifters)? Yes, I do if they want to really compete with BMWs (whose 5-Series 6es have always had less power than the LS) 5-Series. Does Lincoln WANT to compete with BMW? Apparently not. That's fine with me as I KNOW what I'm driving and don't need to prove anything to anybody!
No need for the Nomex. I'm sure that many people use their LSs for driving that is primarily city commuting. In these condidions, a manual tranny is quite inconvenient. I'm lucky, in that I have two cars. One is a stick, and one is an automatic. I can drive either one to work, as most of my commute is on the expressway. OTOH, it doesn't make much difference, because once I go through the gears coming down the on ramp, I'm in 6th for the next 15-16 miles. If there's a construction tie up, or fender bender, however, then the stick can be a drag. Either way, as you well pointed out, the masses didn't buy the stick. In my situaton, my wife is the primary driver of the LS, so it had to be an automatic. However, in some cases, I'll bet it was more of an issue that the MTX was tied to the V-6.
I'm not at all upset by the KBB review. I'm in the market for a new car, and I'd love to consider the LS. That's why I turned to this board in the first place. About Saturday newspaper car reviews, we do have such a section in our local paper and they are really ads disguised as articles. That's what I object to: they are inherently deceptive.
Now that you have explained your positioning a little better, you may get more civil responses. In reference to the LS, if you look back thru the 10,000 posts on this thread, you will see that there were a number of issues/complaints about the LS. But, there were just as many good things as well since I have read this board from the start. What does this all mean? Well, for a 3 year old car, Lincoln has had time to improve it and with the feedback from Edmunds and the Lincoln LS owners club, the engineers and marketing folk listened to almost all of the feedback given and made changes to the vehicle accordingly (Lincoln reads these boards). For example, the electric parking brake was the result of the complaint of lack of interior storage in the 2000-2002 LS's. Now, the storage in the center console and on the front and rear doors has been greatly improved. What some of the others were trying to say is that the nit-pick negatives that we so harped on before have been corrected and as such, Lincoln has done a great job in improving on a great vehicle. Net-net, if you want nit picks, keep looking at the various reviews, but I bet you will find far fewer on the 2003 LS due to what I have stated above. The LS is a sleeper car for the money that just got better with the 2003. Take it for what it is worth, but you are entitled to your own opinion. All I ask is that you don't complain just for complaints sake and to try and elicit a response from this board. You can also look back thru posts on this board for opinions on the LS in general and I think you will find most of them positive. For opinions on the 2003, you will have to wait out the reviews. Hope this helps you in making up your mind.
As I said in my post #10089 I would let you know of the dealers progress on my noises coming from under the car. The dealer has had the car for 3 days Fri through Tues and claims that they still need more time to locate and fix the problem. Sounds like my fears of this being a major problem are true.
Saturday I needed something out of the car and stopped by the dealer to go into the car, one of the service writers was there and was wondering what they were doing to the car as $3,000 worth of parts were ordered, when I asked what parts he said I should speak with Stu the writer who was handling the car. I spoke to Stu on Tuesday (tried him Monday but he was gone for the day when I called) and he said they needed the car at least through Wednesday as he wants to fix it right and not have me have to bring the car back again but made no mention of any ordered parts. Later when I spoke with my wife she said she received a call from the dealer on Tuesday morning informing her that the parts that were ordered were in. Something very strange is going on here and someone does not want to tell me exactly what is wrong with the car. Hopefully I will find out more tomorrow.
Edmund's has put up a good review on the 2003 Honda Accord. Since we had recently test driven the Accord I thought it was a very accurate review. What stopped us from considering the Accord were the looks. I thought the front end looked amazingly like a Ford Focus. If I want a Focus, I will buy a Focus. The drones were still filing in to buy them though.
We didn't consider a Taurus because I thought it should have been revamped in 2003 or even 2002. But I notice Edmund's has info on the 2004 Five Hundred(Galaxy?). Is 2003 the last year for the Taurus?
And. Does anybody else find the LS difficult to drive around town? It seems like all it wants to do is stretch it's legs and that isn't good in 35 and 45 MPH zones. I'm really not joking about this. I'm thinking about putting a brick under the gas pedal for city driving.
herman9, you're really in the wrong place to ask about the future of the Taurus, but since most of us LS drivers are know it alls, here is what I've heard.
1. Ford 500 will be larger, more expensive, more luxurious and positioned above the Taurus. It almost sounds like the 500 will encroach upon Crown Vic space.
2. There is supposed to be a smaller Taurus replacement, possibly based off the new Mazda 6 to compete head on (including size) with Camry, Altima, Accord etc.
3. The Taurus will linger on for several more years primarily as a fleet and rental co. vehicle. No major updates are planned for the last years of the Taurus.
4. Rumors are also that there will never be a major redesign of the Panther platform, Crown Victrola, Marquis de Sade and Town Barge. They will linger on with modest updates until sales drop to the point where 500 based follow ons will replace them.
bartalk, gain the KBB writeup is a first drive impression not an indebth review. You will have to wait until Jan or Feb for in debth critical reviews. It will take that amount of time for the car rags, like C&D. MT, R&T etc. to get their hands on a production '03 LS on their own outside of Lincoln's control.
The '00-'03 LS was a very good car with a number of faults. It's strong points outweighed it faults. For '03 it seems like 90% of the major complaints have been addressed, so expectations are high for the '03 LS.
Well I picked up the car today and it seems to be fixed. No parts were on the repair bill so I must have been given bad info from the service writer on Saturday. the official word is that the car was missing nuts on the sub frame engine mounting brackets. Sound rather serious I guess the worker on the assembly line that installed these bolts was off the day my car was made. Anyway the car is back and I can't wait to drive it again!
I know exactly what you mean. I use D4 in town, otherwise it seems like I'm always on the brakes trying to keep it down to 35. With a light throttle, our transmission will actually shift up to 5th as low as 30 mph on a flat road. If you're stuck in real slow traffic, SST 3rd works well, too.
Thanks for your note. I am not at all anti-LS, in fact I think American cars in general have been too quickly dismissed by the car mags simply for being American. Kind of a reverse chauvinism at work. Thus, e.g., everyone complains that the LS has little storage space, again and again. But does anyone ever complain that the BMW 3 and 5 series probably have even less storage space, that the cup holders in the 5 series are pathetic, etc? No, reviews almost see this as a positive--i.e., When Germans drive, they like to drive, not drink. So the flimsy cup holders are almost seen as a positive. The down side of all this for American cars, of course, is that market share is falling, companies are in big trouble, and resale values for owners are in the basement. Compare the price of a used BMW and a used LS. That snowballs the whole thing, as buyers don't want to buy a car with lousy resale value, etc.
I was at my local dealer, Pavilion LM in Austin, having my oil changed today when I struck up a conversation with another LS owner who was having their LS serviced. He had bought his 01 used and was quite pleased with the car. I asked him if he was a member of the owners club and he didn't know there was one. I was telling him all about the benefits of being a member and so forth and answering some of his questions about the car when I aksed him if he has had any problems with the car. His reply was "windows". He said they replaced the regulator the window that had the problem. I told him that they are suppose to replace BOTH . The service writer overheard our conversation and said that Ford had instructed them to replace just the defective one. I mentioned that the TSB said to replace both and he said that was not true. Now, I know what the TSB says and it says to replace both. I assured the LS owner that the service writer was misinformed. Maybe the LS owner will join up so he can see for himself what a dedicated bunch of folks we have on this forum and in the owners club and receive accurate information. It just chaps my hide to see these service writers try to pull the wool over peoples eyes and expect the customer to accept their explanation without question.
to cdnpnhd and anyone else interested...We were discussing the difference in price between US and Canadian vehicles a while back. Here are some stats I came across which were published recently by DesRosiers Automotive Consultants. "After tax, it takes 29 weeks of take-home pay in Canada to purchase a new vehicle, but only 23 weeks in the US, despite the fact that with the exchange rate adjusted, passenger car MSRP were $3595 less in Canada than for identical cars in the US." They largely attribute this to taxes, such as GST, PST, tire tax, air-conditioning tax, and Ontario Tax for Fuel Conservation. (Yeah, no joking.) My own experience, on negotiating the price on a factory-ordered, fully loaded LS, was that in spite of negotiating down to what I know was a good price for my car, by the time all the taxes were added in I was back over the sticker price again! So cdnpnhd - rest assured - when compared to us Canucks you can feel very warm and fuzzy with your LS purchase price. ; ) Rgds - Brian. (Still "moLSting" the highways)
I live in the Austin area as well. I was seriously considering purchasing my LS from Pavillion. Their price was excellent and the salesman was good. I didn't because, after a little more investigating, found that their service reputation was absolutely awful. I ended up purchasing my vehicle from Johnson Sewell FLM in Marble Falls. The major disadvantage is I have to drive 1 hour for service. The major advantage is the service is fabulous. I have never had better service from a car dealer. Everything is always fixed right the first time. The loaner car is ready and waiting when I get there. Everyone is incredibly friendly. You should try it if you have a chance. They will replace both window regulators if 1 fails.
Drop me an email at LobsenzA@Rose-Grp.com. Maybe we can have lunch.
I have an 02 with 13K miles. Both headlight assemblies have fogged several times. It usually goes away by burning the headlights all of the time for a few days. Now the fogging in my passenger side will not go away. I took it to the dealer today and asked that it be fixed. The tech told me Ford has issued a TSB saying they know they have a problem but they don't have a fix yet. Previously they would replace the assembly but they have had many fail after replacement. He said Ford will not authorize any repairs until it creates a fix that will work. Does anybody know about this TSB or how long I am going to have to wait to get this fixed? Thanks.
I can't blame Ford for not replacing head lamps till they find a solution. I have an 00 and have had the head lamps replaced twice. They now fog when a cloud passes overhead :-) Determining the root cause (poor sealant or sealing procedure)is the solution not throwing more replacements away. Of course given the 03 has a totally different assembly, there may be a lower priority to find the cure. Ray Chartrand
What the tech told you is correct. A service statement was issued in July, IIRC, that suspended replacement until they come up with an assembly that doesn't have the problem. How long will that take? I don't know; you'd think it would be a simple fix, but apparently it isn't.
You didn't say what's causing your fogging to occur. Is it happening after driving in the rain, or after the car is washed? If it's happening after washing, then I would strongly recommend changing your methods. Keep high-pressure spray away from the lamps. (High-pressure washing isn't good, anyway.) One of mine fogged once and it took more than two weeks for it to dry, but I've been careful & it hasn't recurred. It's an annoying problem, but I'm sure they'll solve it.
To all of you folks that have responded to the dilemma's with my 2000 LS, Thanks!!! From where you're sitting it may sound like I just want to get rid of my LS and get another vehicle, maybe an SUV. I would really like to keep my car, but since there have been so many issues with the front end. It seems like I'm the only one of you that has had this many problems, but I need to step back and wonder, what happens when the warranty expires.
To jndcav, sounds like to got a small taste of the front ends problems, too! But I'm here to tell you, the noises will more than likely start again, very discreetly and then you'll be back down at the service dept. and they'll be scratching their heads again. One reason that my ordeal sounds so bad, is that the car was in for the popping repairs 3 times. They couldn't seem to put their finger on exactly what the problem was, so they just starting replacing everything. It probably turned into a $5000 fix, if you combine all my visits together. Good thing that Ford/Lincoln decided to "fess up" and call it warranty repair.
As for chwolfman with the fogging headlights; yes the leak occurs from failing gaskets (after going through a carwash). As for Ford not replacing the assemblies anymore after July, well evidently my service dept. didn't get those instructions. I too have had the assemblies replace twice, most recently as September.
How many of you have received "Recall" notices about anything on your LS? I have receive only one, way back in December of 2000, don't even remember what it waS for, but it certainly wasn't for anything that has been fixed on my car so far.
So, THE SAGA CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. I HAD MY CAR APPRAISED AT THE FORD DEALER AND THEY ONLY WOULD GIVE ME 18,000 FOR TRADE-IN VALUE. WHAT A JOKE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEIR TRYING TO TURN AROUND AND SELL THE 10 THEY HAVE ON THEIR LOT (YEAR MODELS 2000 - 2002)FOR $21,000 - $24,000 ON THE 2000 YEAR MODELS AND 2001 & 2002 FOR $25,000 TO $30,OOO.
$18K wholesale - $21K retail. Sounds about right to me. And if they already had 10 on the lot they probably don't want another one. A lot of times trade-ins go straight to the auction so the dealer isn't going to give you more than he can get at auction. That's just how it works. If you want more you have to sell it privately. But remember you don't pay sales tax on the $18K if you're using it to buy a new one, so you're actually getting $18K + sales tax (7% here) in exchange. If you sell it privately you need to get $19260 just to break even (assuming 7%).
The recall was for improperly torqued ball joint nuts. They only do recalls for safety issues. Have they tried replacing the stabilizer bar bushings? Our resident LS suspension guru says that's the most likely cause.
I agree on the bushing comment. A local Dallas owner (Airwolf) had his car torn apart for similar sounds. The result was the bushings which are apparently filled with some sort of fluid had dried out. He hasn't had a problem since they were replaced. $18K is alot more than an LS I saw advertised last week at Buzz Post here in Arlington. It was a loaded 00 they were asking $10,995 for! I don't know it's condition or mileage but that hurts!
Dude, be glad! One recall for a car in it's first year and NONE since?!?!?!!!! This is a reason to celebrate!! The LLSOC (can I say that?) President has over 90 thousand trouble free miles on his LS. That bodes well for longevity!
As mentioned above, the most likely cause of your front end noise is the anti-sway bar bushings. My Sable has the same clunking for which a TSB was issued. I just haven't gotten around to replacing them, and that car has almost 115K. Have your dealer replace the bushings (a visual inspection is worthless!) and I'm sure you'll be a happy camper. Or is that happy LSer?
Has anyone tried the new Raybestos QuietStop low dusting pads? Heard alot, both good and bad on Porterfield brakes including price of $200 for front and rear excluding shipping and tax is a little much.
$200 sounds high in any case. I just ordered front & rear pads and was quoted list price $89 front/$69 rear (not including shipping). I'm paying $71/$55 because of, um, some special friends.
Thats why I just bought a 2001 used. It is SICK how badly this car drops in value. On the positive side however, there are a lot of used / program cars out there which IMO are great buys.
Today I got a deluxe envelope from LM and inside was the big sales brochure for the 2002 LS. Strange, since I would think that they would send out a 2003 brochure. Interesting but strange. Did any of you get one of these also?
Hi, Stan. I got one also along with a 2003 Town Car brochure. However, in my case it's worse. I had gotten a "courtesy" call from Lincoln HQ re the upcoming end of my lease (12/01). They were trying to get me into a 2002 LS. I made it clear that I was waiting for an 03. The caller asked me if I wanted a brochure. I asked her if they had 2003 LS brochures and I was told quite unequivocally that they did. She said that she would mail it out. Not only did I get a 2002 LS brochure, they threw in the TC brochure as well. Needless to say, I wasn't interested in either. Very responsive to a potential repeat customer.
I stopped by the local mega-dealer Sunday just to see what kind of inventory was still on hand (and to take another look at the Infiniti G35). There were 17 LSs on the lot but only 3 were V8 models. Most were premium package along with a few sport models. So if anyone is looking for a V6, at least here in Cincinnati, there are several yet to choose from and I imagine the deals are getting very sweet.
...that the extended overall length of the I-6 vs. the V-6 would upset the weight balance of the car. Unless, of course, the engineers could find a way to slide it back 2-3 inches further in the chassis.
..are the most naturally balanced engines. In fact they are perfectly naturally balanced. A V6 needs quite a lot of counter balance (weights) on the crank, etc, in order to eliminate secondary vibration.
Look how sweet the Jag X6, BMW I6's, and yes the Dodge 220 "Slant Six" were. Smooth as silk. Easy to make gobs of power and no parisitc losses from slinging counterweghts.
Here is what I have heard. I may be wrong. The #1 reason that I6's have gone away is safety. In a head on collision, a long I6 can intrude throught the firewall into the passenger space. There is not enough length to add the proper amount of "crumple zone" unless the front hood area of a car were greatly extended.
Mike, I seem to remember a prior inline 6 fan on this board. Is your post a test to see how long folks have been reading this board, how short our memories are, or a serious query.
Just to clear up any misconceptions, here's a link to the LS discussion board from the August 2001 time frame that I think finally brought this discussion to a close.
Oh let's not go there again. But I do think each design has it's advantages. The V-6 has packaging/safety advantages. The I-6 has fewer parts(2 cams instead of 4,one head,one exhaust and intake manifold). Interestingly, the Volvo S-80 turned it's I-6 sideways, making it the world's widest engine compartment with a six. But the advantage was they could put a turbo on each side of the engine. Try that with a V-6. That led to blowing up the early Buick automatics Volvo used in the S80 T-6 from all the torque. I've had both types of sixes. If you do your own servicing, the straight six is alot easier to work on.
Comments
Now it's that the demand was only from the "auto writers".
I think the initial demand came from the value buyers who wanted either a less expensive 5 series or an American-made BMW 525/528.
In early 2000. The LS MTX was the ONLY RWD, 4 door, Manual sedan other than the BMW, who had that market by itself since the mid-80's, when the FWD plague took over.
As time wore on, we got the IS300, etc. With higher performance alternatives available, LS MTX sales fell and there was no justification to spend "upgrade" money in the post Jacque/Firestone tightwad world.
I think that the LS MTX was only invented as a European export model. But when Jac bought Volvo, it became a domestic only model.
I think another factor in it's demise early on was lack of enthusiasm by Lincoln to promote the car and the virtual gauntlet that the dealers put up to prevent you from buying one.
I would like to see an LM VP tell us the real story about the LS MTX.
But please don't put all the blame on the "auto writers", although they had a hard time figuring out the LS, just as we had as consumers had a hard time figuring out LM's intentions with the car.
A classic battle of who the manufactur's customer really is. The owner of the car should be the customer, but apparantly Ford (Lincoln) thinks that the dealers are their customers.
11 LS models, way too many. 4 LS models, especially when 1 of the 4 is a stripper fleet special that can't even be optioned up to a reasonable equipment level, is way too few. 6 configurations (5 for the real customers and 1 for Hertz) would be more in line with the market.
So, that makes the dealers, the customers of Ford/LM. That also explains why when you have problems with dealer service, you are just as likely to get no help from Ford's customer service staff, as you are to get some help.
TB
Drives a discontinued SVT Sports Sedan, and would only consider a manual tranny LS, if anyone from Lincoln is listening here. I guess Lincoln wants me to buy a BMW, Lexus, Infinii or Caddy to get my manual tranny RWD sports sedan.
In a past job I was deeply involved in a this sort of situation. At one point the manufacturer I worked for started thinking that their distributors were their customers and made some bad decisions at the request of and for the benefit of the distributors. The end user customers were of course the ones who started getting the short end of the stick, until the manu. wised up.
The point is that Ford needs to balance the dealer's desires (simple product line with high profit) with the final customers desire (get exactly what they want, quickly and at a great price).
At this point most of the auto companies wish they could sell to us directly. However due to the political power the dealers have and the franchise protection laws they got passed this will never happen.
The KBB review, just like the Det News review are not in depth critical reviews. They are first drive impressions. The press was invited to take a test drive of the '03 LS. Apparently to your chagrin both were very impressed with the '03 LS and thankfully gave their honest impressions. IIRC the only negative Det News mentioned is that they wanted quicker down shifting.
If you local newspaper has a Saturday auto section you will find that it is full of similar positive (fluff) short term reviews of all kinds of cars some of which are real dogs. In a short test you generally don't see a cars faults, unless they are really glaring.
Simply sounds to me like the '03 LS left such a positive impression that neither reviewer thought much about any negatives.
When the car rags get their hands on an '03 LS for an extended test I'm sure they will find some shortcomings with it.
In the mean time get used to the '03 LS being good enough that it's positives overwhelm any negatives it has.
Putting on the nomex now!
I'm lucky, in that I have two cars. One is a stick, and one is an automatic. I can drive either one to work, as most of my commute is on the expressway. OTOH, it doesn't make much difference, because once I go through the gears coming down the on ramp, I'm in 6th for the next 15-16 miles.
If there's a construction tie up, or fender bender, however, then the stick can be a drag. Either way, as you well pointed out, the masses didn't buy the stick. In my situaton, my wife is the primary driver of the LS, so it had to be an automatic. However, in some cases, I'll bet it was more of an issue that the MTX was tied to the V-6.
Saturday I needed something out of the car and stopped by the dealer to go into the car, one of the service writers was there and was wondering what they were doing to the car as $3,000 worth of parts were ordered, when I asked what parts he said I should speak with Stu the writer who was handling the car. I spoke to Stu on Tuesday (tried him Monday but he was gone for the day when I called) and he said they needed the car at least through Wednesday as he wants to fix it right and not have me have to bring the car back again but made no mention of any ordered parts. Later when I spoke with my wife she said she received a call from the dealer on Tuesday morning informing her that the parts that were ordered were in. Something very strange is going on here and someone does not want to tell me exactly what is wrong with the car. Hopefully I will find out more tomorrow.
We didn't consider a Taurus because I thought it should have been revamped in 2003 or even 2002. But I notice Edmund's has info on the 2004 Five Hundred(Galaxy?). Is 2003 the last year for the Taurus?
And. Does anybody else find the LS difficult to drive around town? It seems like all it wants to do is stretch it's legs and that isn't good in 35 and 45 MPH zones. I'm really not joking about this. I'm thinking about putting a brick under the gas pedal for city driving.
1. Ford 500 will be larger, more expensive, more luxurious and positioned above the Taurus. It almost sounds like the 500 will encroach upon Crown Vic space.
2. There is supposed to be a smaller Taurus replacement, possibly based off the new Mazda 6 to compete head on (including size) with Camry, Altima, Accord etc.
3. The Taurus will linger on for several more years primarily as a fleet and rental co. vehicle. No major updates are planned for the last years of the Taurus.
4. Rumors are also that there will never be a major redesign of the Panther platform, Crown Victrola, Marquis de Sade and Town Barge. They will linger on with modest updates until sales drop to the point where 500 based follow ons will replace them.
bartalk, gain the KBB writeup is a first drive impression not an indebth review. You will have to wait until Jan or Feb for in debth critical reviews. It will take that amount of time for the car rags, like C&D. MT, R&T etc. to get their hands on a production '03 LS on their own outside of Lincoln's control.
The '00-'03 LS was a very good car with a number of faults. It's strong points outweighed it faults. For '03 it seems like 90% of the major complaints have been addressed, so expectations are high for the '03 LS.
(When I wrote this, post # 10115 was blank)
"After tax, it takes 29 weeks of take-home pay in Canada to purchase a new vehicle, but only 23 weeks in the US, despite the fact that with the exchange rate adjusted, passenger car MSRP were $3595 less in Canada than for identical cars in the US." They largely attribute this to taxes, such as GST, PST, tire tax, air-conditioning tax, and Ontario Tax for Fuel Conservation. (Yeah, no joking.) My own experience, on negotiating the price on a factory-ordered, fully loaded LS, was that in spite of negotiating down to what I know was a good price for my car, by the time all the taxes were added in I was back over the sticker price again!
So cdnpnhd - rest assured - when compared to us Canucks you can feel very warm and fuzzy with your LS purchase price. ; )
Rgds - Brian. (Still "moLSting" the highways)
Drop me an email at LobsenzA@Rose-Grp.com. Maybe we can have lunch.
Determining the root cause (poor sealant or sealing procedure)is the solution not throwing more replacements away. Of course given the 03 has a totally different assembly, there may be a lower priority to find the cure.
Ray Chartrand
You didn't say what's causing your fogging to occur. Is it happening after driving in the rain, or after the car is washed? If it's happening after washing, then I would strongly recommend changing your methods. Keep high-pressure spray away from the lamps. (High-pressure washing isn't good, anyway.) One of mine fogged once and it took more than two weeks for it to dry, but I've been careful & it hasn't recurred. It's an annoying problem, but I'm sure they'll solve it.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/autoweekend/20021025-40864816.htm
To jndcav, sounds like to got a small taste of the front ends problems, too! But I'm here to tell you, the noises will more than likely start again, very discreetly and then you'll be back down at the service dept. and they'll be scratching their heads again. One reason that my ordeal sounds so bad, is that the car was in for the popping repairs 3 times. They couldn't seem to put their finger on exactly what the problem was, so they just starting replacing everything. It probably turned into a $5000 fix, if you combine all my visits together. Good thing that Ford/Lincoln decided to "fess up" and call it warranty repair.
As for chwolfman with the fogging headlights; yes the leak occurs from failing gaskets (after going through a carwash). As for Ford not replacing the assemblies anymore after July, well evidently my service dept. didn't get those instructions. I too have had the assemblies replace twice, most recently as September.
How many of you have received "Recall" notices about anything on your LS? I have receive only one, way back in December of 2000, don't even remember what it waS for, but it certainly wasn't for anything that has been fixed on my car so far.
So, THE SAGA CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. I HAD MY CAR APPRAISED AT THE FORD DEALER AND THEY ONLY WOULD GIVE ME 18,000 FOR TRADE-IN VALUE. WHAT A JOKE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEIR TRYING TO TURN AROUND AND SELL THE 10 THEY HAVE ON THEIR LOT (YEAR MODELS 2000 - 2002)FOR $21,000 - $24,000 ON THE 2000 YEAR MODELS AND 2001 & 2002 FOR $25,000 TO $30,OOO.
The recall was for improperly torqued ball joint nuts. They only do recalls for safety issues. Have they tried replacing the stabilizer bar bushings? Our resident LS suspension guru says that's the most likely cause.
$18K is alot more than an LS I saw advertised last week at Buzz Post here in Arlington. It was a loaded 00 they were asking $10,995 for!
I don't know it's condition or mileage but that hurts!
As mentioned above, the most likely cause of your front end noise is the anti-sway bar bushings. My Sable has the same clunking for which a TSB was issued. I just haven't gotten around to replacing them, and that car has almost 115K. Have your dealer replace the bushings (a visual inspection is worthless!) and I'm sure you'll be a happy camper. Or is that happy LSer?
It is SICK how badly this car drops in value.
On the positive side however, there are a lot
of used / program cars out there which IMO
are great buys.
Ace
Interesting but strange.
Did any of you get one of these also?
Speaking of bait. What do you guys thing of Lincoln using an inline 6 in the '05 LS?
Not likely, is what I think.
I believe that Lexus is moving in the opposite direction: from inline to Vee.
Look how sweet the Jag X6, BMW I6's, and yes the Dodge 220 "Slant Six" were. Smooth as silk. Easy to make gobs of power and no parisitc losses from slinging counterweghts.
Here is what I have heard. I may be wrong.
The #1 reason that I6's have gone away is safety. In a head on collision, a long I6 can intrude throught the firewall into the passenger space. There is not enough length to add the proper amount of "crumple zone" unless the front hood area of a car were greatly extended.
Ohhhhhhh Nooooooooo!?
jnowski Aug 13, 2001 11:57pm
please note post #4170 in particular.
BTW - I deleted my last post as it could have been interpreted as inflamatory, or otherwise mis-understood, which was not the intent.
But I do think each design has it's advantages.
The V-6 has packaging/safety advantages. The I-6 has fewer parts(2 cams instead of 4,one head,one exhaust and intake manifold).
Interestingly, the Volvo S-80 turned it's I-6 sideways, making it the world's widest engine compartment with a six.
But the advantage was they could put a turbo on each side of the engine. Try that with a V-6.
That led to blowing up the early Buick automatics Volvo used in the S80 T-6 from all the torque.
I've had both types of sixes. If you do your own servicing, the straight six is alot easier to work on.