If you've already done the deal - don't ask! You may not like the answer. Unless you can change it.
Go to the Ford website and put in your information to get a RCL estimate for comparison.
If they charged you list price minus only the $3K rebate, you paid too much for the vehicle up front. They can be had for close to invoice, minus the $3K rebate. Plus there are unconfirmed rumours of an additional $2K in dealer incentives.
Scroll back in the posts here for some examples in the last few days for comparison. jndcav paid almost the same price (if you subtract the $1K loyalty rebate and $500 down payment) and got the same payment but with 15K miles per year.
good observation about previous SHO ownership. I came out of an '89 SHO to a '00 LS V8 Sport. I AM an old fart so I was tired of shifting in a daily driver. I have an old '87 911 Carrera I drive when I want to shift. In my now older mind shifting in a daily driver has lost its appeal. I've messed with the SST but the LS transmission is so sloppy it's not worth the bother. What is nice though is that 50-90 MPH rush. Just like third gear in a manual SHO!
Definitely a trade-up! I have a '97 SHO now that I'll be trading in this coming March for an '03 LS8 premium-sport. Well to placate myself in the meantime, I took my gf over for a test-drive this past weekend. The salesman pulled around an LSE and her-and-I did a little zoom-zoom. She'd never been in one before, and actually quite liked it. The car seemed to have a little more power than I remembered from the '00 I test-drove a few years back. I stomped it a little more than I normally would have, since I'm not used to getting the oompf in my SHO unless it's WOT. But so smooth, so quiet - makes my SHO sound like a POS...
Well with 20-30 more HP/torque and the lower-RPM torque, I am going to have so much fun in that car! And as a bonus, now my gf's eyes don't immediately glaze over when I start going on about it.
hi, i have posted twice on this board about lincoln ls lease prices. Its quite easy to find prices for lincolns all over the internet but its hard to find info on "lease" deals. I would love it if everyone could be honest and post the deal they received on their 2002 lincolns. Please give all the specifics if you can, such as term,downpayment,residual,etc etc. Everyone has been so helpful and i would really appreciate you guys and girls input. Thank you very much!
This is getting interesting. Wonder how many people who had SHO's have, or will, replace them with an LS? It's interesting to see that there are at least a few people who went SHO to LS. I really loved my SHO, but I am really loving getting back into RWD again, and while it's true the SST is no manual, I find it not sloppy except for you have to be careful about the 3-2 downshift, particularly on the 00-01's, as if you do it at the wrong speed it can upset the car a bit, but when I want to flog it I use the SST and think it's quite effective.
The traffic and such make an auto my choice now for a daily driver, eventually I will probably pick up something manual for a "toy" for the weekends or days when I want to stir the gears, but to me the LS w/SST is a darned good compromise.
Replacing the SHO was one of the hardest car shopping experiences I've had. The SHO was a great car, the engine howled wonderfully, and it was a great car for stealth speeding, cops thought it looked like a Taurus rental. ;-) The LS doesn't seem to attract too much attention either, thankfully. Definitely a better stealth speeding car than a BMW or Vette/Stang.
As much as I loved the SHO, I don't miss the FWD though. (Even though the SHO handled quite well for a FWD car)
I leased an '02 LSE V8, MSRP $43,020, for $609 a month including taxes. This is a 36 month lease, $0 out of pocket, no Loyalty Rebate, 15k miles a year, and I had dealer throw in window tint.
rbud: I don't know what taxes are like in NJ, but it sounds like you got a fair deal. Here in CT we have 6% sales tax plus property tax that Ford Credit adds into the montly lease payment. My town has about 2.7% property tax. My calculations show that I would expect to pay about $505 a month for your car with the taxes up here.
rbudn83510 here is my deal. I also live in NJ so have the same incentives you should have. list price of car $40565 ( that is after the no charge moon roof) I applied the $3000 rebate and a $1000 owner loyalty rebate to the cap cost and also put down another $500. The agreed value of the car in the lease was $37938 which is within $500 of the TMV on Edmunds.com. I have 35 payments of $499 (Lincoln made the first payment) which includes all taxes and 15000 miles per year. Also included is Wearcare which enables me to return the car with up to $2500 of excess wear at no charge. I did not take this car off the lot it was ordered for me and has the options and colors that I wanted, the deal was better if I selected from the dealers inventory but I did not like the colors, my lease started August 30. Finally the residual value is $17442. All things considered I think I got a good deal, I could have done alittle better but the dealer I leased from is 3 miles away from home and has Saturday service hours for the complementary scheduled maintenance.
reneleblanc & lsv8 thanks for your response on my knocking noise. I have not noticed the advance track signal on the dash so I will just have to wait and see if the dealer finds anything in 2 weeks. I will keep you posted.
My first SHO was a 1990 Black on Black loaded. Yamaha V6 and 5 speed. Second SHO was a 1993 Green/Saddle loaded. Yamaha V6 and 5 speeed Third SHO was a 1997 Green/Saddle loaded Yamaha V8 Automatic.
The 1990 was the fastest of the three (options added weight). The 1989 SHO plus was the fastest sho of them all, even had an aluminum hood.
The LS was for me a spiritual successor to the SHO. I would probably still be driving one if they had done another...
HOWEVER, not that I have an LS I could never go back. The comment about RENTAL car is very true. I travel a lot and rent Tauri all the time. The SHO's were fun and LOUD and had a lot of torque steer from the FWD. The LS is in a totally different league...
My gear stirring comes from my 99 Wrangler which I have totally customized and is my play toy!
BUT if I want to get somewhere fast the LS it is. I love the contrast the LS provides versus the very rudimentary technology of the Jeep.
I have the best of both worlds... Now I just need a nice used 911....
I would much rather have all of these seperate vehicles than a single very expensive one...
I was hell bent on getting a 2001 V8 sport for between $25K-$28K. I just read all the changes to the 2003 from www.llsoc.com. WOW. Anyone have any idea what its going to do to the sticker price of the car??? I would assume new list price on a fully loaded car has to be around 43-45K.
Anyway, part of me says buy a 2003 and drive it into the ground (since trading it in for a new one 3 yrs later would mean getting killed with resale) and the other says just stick with plan A and get the 2001.
Any opinions? Also - LSV8 owners, what kind of mileage do you get and how's the car in the snow???
Hard to say whether to get the 2001 or a new 2003. If you can afford a new 2003 it's looks like a great car. OTOH used 2000 or 2001s will be a bargain by comparison. Don't think you can go wrong either way.
The current V8 will get you 16-18 city and 24-27 highway. 2003 is supposed to be the same or slightly better even though it has more power and lower gearing.
No problems with snow but Advance Trac is recommended along with snow tires if you get a lot of the white stuff.
The LS performance in the snow is highly dependent on its tires. With the original Firestone FireHawks when they were brand new I had no problems in the snow. A year later they could be a handful at times.
I think the bottom line is that you can get away with all season tires on most FWD cars, but with a RWD car like the LS you need good new all season tires or you need to invest in real snow tires.
Interesting point on rentals. I tend to rent the LS when traveling. It's a kick to drive. I never considered the bland styling to be an asset, but it's such a driver's car, I really enjoy the trips. Perhaps there is an advantage to the "styling by Sears" after all.
Nish, Its really just a matter of money. If you can wait until the new year and can afford the money, I don't think you'll be disappointed if you wait for the 2003. You could also get a new 2002 now for a great deal right now. It has a little more power than the 2000/2001.
My 2001 V8 gets 18mpg city/hwy. If you drive only city, expect 16-17. If you take a long trip, expect 22-24.
I haven't had too much experience in the snow with my car yet but so far it performs predictably and confidently. If you're concerned, get AdvanceTrak. If you're in NJ as your username implies (as am I), you shouldn't have any problems unless it snows a couple of feet. My personal opinion is that good snow driving is more in the driver than in the car anyway.
Joe BTW: I'm the NJ co-director of LLSOC. Hope to see you there.
Well I was almost ready to leave the "I've hit 25,000 miles and no problems" post but a week ago we started hearing a drone or hum from what seems like the back of the car. Today my wife is driving and starts to lower the pass side rear window to see if she could do any better making out what the noise is and wamo the rear window goes down 3" and stops but the window motor keeps running......... the infamous rear window regulator I guess. I thought 2002s didn't have this problem. Anyway does anyone have an idea what the droning or humming sound might be? Thanks
I am a former SHO owner as well (92 5sp), although I did not move directly from the SHO to the LS. When the LS first came out, my hope was that the 5sp manual trans LS would pick up the SHO V6 engine. That would have been sweeeeet!
I have a buddy who is a ford mechanic and was trained to work on the SHO v6 back in the late 80's. He described it as the closest thing you could get to an Indy car engine, in a passenger car! When testing initial prototype engines, apparently Ford could run the SHO v6 at 8000+ RPM's all day long.
I reluctantly gave up my SHO after 5 clutch/pressure plate/ throwout bearing R&R's in two years. Great engine, POS transmission.
I have to admit the LS is getting to be a sharp looking car. Have yet to drive one, and am considering a BMW 530, Lexus GS300 and even the Acura TL-S -so here is my question. Does Lincoln market this particular car to an age segment - seems that I always see people driving these cars that are older than I am, at age 37!! No offense, but that is my observation!
dzuba: Lincoln is trying to sell the LS to younger buyers.
The average age of a Town Car customer is around 70.
The average age of a LS customer is around 50, which is probably brought up by lots of traditional Lincoln customers getting LS's too.
There are lots of younger LS drivers, as was shown on a LS driver age poll on llsoc.com. In fact I've gotten lots of complements about mu LS from people as young as 16. The only problem is there are very few 16 year olds who can afford an LS. From the participants on llsoc.com it seems that since used LS's are showing up in the market there are a lot more 20 something year olds now driving LS's, simply most of them can't or won't spend the $$ for a new LS.
I really wouldn't worry about the age of LS owners as I see lots of 50 something people driving BMW 5 series and GS series cars. If you like the LS, get one. You will be pleased at some of the benefits of owning a brand that older people drive, such as low insurance rates.
Well my wife took the car in early this morning after phoning the dealer about the rear window. The drawback of taking the car in on short notice is ............. NO LOWNER AVAILABLE! Anyway the dealer replaced BOTH rear window regulators (I made my wife a copy of the TSB) The drone/humming noise that I heard turned out to be a wheel bearing like someone suggested. Dealer replaced. Still think the car is the best daily driver I've ever owned. I don't expect something as complicated as a car to be totally problem free as long as they fix the few problems right.
According to the LLSOC poll (last time I looked), 40-45 year olds has slightly more LSes than the younger/older age groups. It really looked like a bell curve with 40-45 year olds at the highest point on the bell.
But, this is not the reason you should buy the car. Buy it because you like the way it drives and handles and because you think it is a good value. 2003 models have quite a few changes including variable valve timing and more power. If you drive and like a 2002, you will like a 2003 even more.
I'm 54 and have an LS Manual. It's not the age but how old you think. I still enjoy Magic Mountain. I love roller coasters. Reminds me of taking 25 mph off-ramps at 65 in my MTX LS. Not ready for the rolling coffins yet.
O.K. I will ring in here again on this matter. Dzuba, I am 27, I ordered my 2000 LS. I was 25 at the time. It was my own birthday present! It got here the day before my birthday just in time. Wonderful Car. I was Looking at the TL and the BMW 530 along with the Volvo and even considering a used 5 year old NSX.
If you want a real American V8 Car with European Looks, Handling, and Sophistication (Getting there--2003 Definitely) the LS is for you!
Also, The Cars you mentioned the Lexus GS300, and the BMW 530 are marketed towards same segments as the LS pretty much. IMO Lincoln sees the BMW 5 Series as the Target Competition. Correct me someone if I am off base here.
Regards, Airwolf1000 LLSOC Texas Chapter Director P.S. The LLSOC WebMaster is even younger than I am! And we have many in their 20's.
I doubt that the average 25-40 year old is aware of what the LS really is. (best doggone performance sedan value on the planet). The enthusiasts' magazines can't seem to find the LS, or to put it into its appropriate category
In my opinion, the magazines also feed into the BMW, M/B bias of much of this age group. Like it or not, image meens a lot to those in that age group, and a small tarnish by a magazine can affect a purchase decision.
And, as we've discussed before, Lincoln advertising could be a lot better.
Airwolf: How did you avoid, or deal with, the 'stigma' of buying a Lincoln?
does anyone know how to remove the lens cover on the maplight below the rearview mirror?? i have a rattle in there that is making me crazy and hate to make a trip to the dealer!!!any ideas??
Drive both the V6 and V8 for yourself and decide. The Sport models will handle better than the nonsport versions (they will ride softer). I recommend test driving on a road with lots of curves.
As far as 2002 vs 2003, there will be significant improvements in the 2003. Becuase of this, pricing is very good right now on the 2002s. The 2003s will hit dealer lots sometime in December. So, if you like the car in general but there are a few things that you would like to be different, let us know because that may be changed in the 2003.
LLSOC is an absolutely wonderful group. Mania 4 next summer sounds fantastic!!!! We hope you can join us.....
Stands for Lincoln LS Owners Club. This is an organization comprised of more than 1200 members now that originally got its start from right here on edmunds. If you're really interested in the car, check out the web site at www.LLSOC.com and ask questions to your hearts content. Virtually any and all questions have been asked and answered there as well. If you already own an LS, this club will be of invaluable service to you and enhance your overall ownership/lease experience. Check it out!
Chris LLSOC Charter Member Arizona Chapter Director
stands for Lincoln LS Owners Club. Look at LLSOC.com. It is a very active owners club. Ther are 30 day trial memberships available. A trial membership also comes with every LS purchased. The club provides assistance if you are having problems with your vehicle and much more. The Mania events include VIP factory tours, meeting with Lincoln engineers, autocross events, and much more.
one word, torque. You will see the difference when you step on the pedal and after 3500 rpm's, the V8 just throws down over the V6. And if you have a car full of people like I sometimes do, you see very little difference in the V8 pulling power, it actually feels smoother to me with more weight on the engine. I test drove both and dropped the V6 quick like after seeing what the V8 had to offer, didn't even care about the price difference, just had to have that extra torque.
If you want an automatic, even I would go with the V8. With a cat-back system, K&N, and a 2002 air box, the V-6 Manual will give the V-8 a run for its money until both cars reach about 65 mph. Then the torque and gearing advantage of the V-8 seems to make a difference. If you are into the cut and thrust of short in-traffic offensive driving, the quick movements of the V-6 MTX are hard to duplicate with the automatic. The MTX is also quicker off the line. At Mania III at California Speedway, a 2001 MTX had the best slolom time. Chaulk that up to slightly better balance and quick reflexes (Or maybe photographers have better cone vision). If there are any 2002 MTXes left, they are an incredible buy for the best edition of the LS MTX. A 220hp MTX almost equals a 252hp V-8 when you consider the loss through an automatic tranny. But you must drive drive the MTX in a more aggresive manner to extract it's performance potential. With the V-8, it's a lot smoother experience. It depends on the involvement level you want with the car. Driving is the only excitement and movement I get in my mostly sedentary life. Besides, all the millionares I know own transmission shops. I figure that with the Manual, I'll never give them any of my money (I'll let them take my wife's money for her car).
Passing power at highway speeds. Adequate in the V6, the V8 will induce the now-legendary LS Grin.
re the earlier post about noise at highway speed: I'm near the end of my second set of Firehawks. I had a slight, low howling sound from the rear end at all speeds from around 50. At the time the 'Stones had about 25k on them. Rotating the tires changed the sound slightly but that's all. Replacing them at 35k eliminated it. The current tires have about 25k on them and have started to howl. I know the newer models don't have the Firestones so, FWIW.
LLSOC membership is the best investment (a puny one) an LS owner can make, to enhance your knowledge and enjoyment of your car. Yes, this is a shameless plug, but a sincere one.
I am in outside sales, driving 30-35K miles per year, so ride, comfort, luxury, Reliability, are major concerns, and then I want fun, sporty, style after that. Anyone out there fits this model when it comes to driving a lot and if so, how has the LS held up? What is the difference between the V6 and V8 in Highway Gas Mileage?
I can only speak for the Manual LS. I do almost all mixed driving with heavy emphasis on the fun factor when on city streets and entering freeways with long curving on-ramps. Mileage is just around 19 mpg, with the low tank warning light coming on at 270-300 miles. The one trip I did take to Central Calif from San Diego yielded a high of 24 mpg. But the MTX is not exactly a low rpm cruiser. Due to it's gearing, the little Duratech spins at 3,000 rpm at 75 mph. As a result, you don't have to shift down for almost any grade. But don't expect neck-snapping forces if you want to pass at 90 mph. This little baby is already wound out and looking for virtual overdrive. So I think the V-8's high overdrive ratio in fifth could easily better the Manual's mileage. Maybe Mikey can fill us in on the V-6 Auto's mileage potential.
But if I were putting 30,000 highway miles on per year, even I would get the 3.9 V-8 LS. I had one for a year and it was a very smooth riding car with more high speed acceleration than the V-6. The Sport model has a better touring suspension that would make all your cruising more enjoyable.
My experience is you will get about one MPG better mileage while highway cruising with the V-6. And you can't go wrong with ANY LS!
Having taken my '00 LS, V-8 on many 300+ mile road trips, I found a re-occuring problem.
The problem was that my LS so effortlessly cruised at 80 MPH and the acceleration was so good anywhere from 50 to 100, that after a couple of hours on the interstate I'd become bored.
All I could think about was -- How long until I can get off the highway and find some good, empty, twisty back roads and have some fun!
I've had a 2001 LSV8 Premium since new, and am absolutely, totally head over heels in love with it. It is by far the best all around sportster I've ever owned or driven. And it does get driven! My question is about alternative tire sizes. The OEM Bridgestone Turanza EL-42's (235/50R17 95V M&S) are just about toast as far as getting through another Canadian winter goes. They're OK for summer and/or remounting to turn in at lease end (April '04) but that's about it. I've checked all over for tires, but have found the selection for 235/50R17 extremely limited, with Bridgestone, Firestone, and Michelin being the only choices I've found. Before I part with almost $350CAN per Pilot Sport A/S I thought I'd pose this to the group. Going with 245/45R17 donuts greatly increases my brand and type options, and will cause only a 2% speedo error (higher), along with a slightly (?) harsher ride. Anyone out there done this? Would I experience clearance problems? Serious ride deterioration? What about getting radical with 255/45R17, which would have a speedo error only 0.8% high? As a side note, the 255/45ZR17 Pilot Sport A/S are also approx. $100CAN cheaper a set than the OEM size!! Thanks everyone! I now follow this forum faithfully, and enjoy it almost as much as driving my LS on the twisty bits!
So far some good feedback. Don't disown me for asking - but - have many of you gone from a BMW 5--, Lexus G300, Audi A6 to your present LS. If so, why and how has the change been?
I probably have one of the higher mileage LSes around with 88,000 miles on my 2000 LS. Haven't had any problems to speak of. The car is incredibly comfortable for long, extended trips, and it lopes along comfortably at 80 mph all day long. Even at higher speeds the car is unruffled. I'm 6 foot 4 and quite chunky (no smart remarks boys!) and the LS is the most comfortable car I've owned.
I went from a '97 BMW 528i to a '99 BMW 740iL to my '02 V8 LSE. We decided to give a US manufacturer a try after several years in BMWs, and are very pleased. I think the LSE is as fun to drive as the 5-series. For the money, I think the LS is a better car. Plus the car is more exclusive as I see at least 10 E39s on the road for every LS here in ABQ. Couldn't wean ourselves completely off BMW though--picked up a '99 740i Sport for the wife.
If you check the sticker on the right rear doorjam you'll see that 245/45R17 is an approved size alternative for the 235/50R17. I have the Pilot sport A/S in the OEM size and I absolutely love them. I think they're the best all season tire you can buy, but like you said they're expensive. An alternative would be the Kumho 712s. They're only $100 each with good dry traction. Probably not quite as good as the Michelins for noise and comfort and wet performance but most people have been very happy with them.
I think 255/45/17 would be chancing interference with something in the suspension. I installed 245/45/17 Bridgestone Pole Position SO-3's and they look like a tight fit. These Summer-only tires have magnificent grip but the ride is for dedicated corner zombies like myself. I mean, how many tires have "AA" for a Traction rating? So the all-season Michelins are probably the best ticket for the sane LS driver. Say your prayers with the 255's. Better be 255/40/17 if you even attempt it. And a 40 series would keep the speedometer error to a minimum. Also, even a 245 is on the edge of acceptability given the limited width of the stock LS Sport wheels. A 255 would probably have accelerated wear on the outside edges of the tread. If it fits.
As for hwy mileage, my best is 26.5 (with the Magnaflow replacing the Borla). That was also on a 2-lane with numerous passing opportunities. Mainly in the 55 to 100 back to 80ish range. Last summer with a totally full trunk, doing ~80 and with some mountain driving, I pretty consistantly got 25mpg.
As for tires (or do you spell it tyres?), I went with Yokohama AVS dB in 245/45/17. They were good tires for about 10K miles. Now (after 20K) they are marginal. I wouldn't buy them again and am seriously looking at Falkens. I have NO clearance problems. I may try 255/45s next, depending on the outcome of an autocross in Phoenix tomorrow.
My '00 V8 Sport will be two years old next week and has 59k miles, so I'm in your ballpark. My commute is 450 miles/wk on rural two lane highways, a few stops and lots of passing (heh,heh) and I get 23.5-24 mpg, about 2 mpg less during winter months due to the gas we get in Colo. At a steady 80-85 on the interstate it will get 26+, I've seen 27 a couple times. In general there doesn't seem to be much difference between V8 & V6 mileage.
I've had one rear window regulator fail, and one burned out light bulb. As yet there are no rattles, squeaks, or air noises. This car has been a gem. slunar is right, and I'll go a little further. Get on a wide open stretch in ideal conditions and decide to have some fun, run it up to 120 or more for a little while. It's so smooth and solid it's almost a non-event, feels like a normal cruise. Then when you slow back down to 80 it feels like the bad old days of the "double nickel."
A year ago LLSOC had a get-together in Dearborn, and I drove home to Greeley, Colo. in one shot, 1250 miles. The car was still fun to drive the next day. Other cars have seats that may feel more comfortable when you first get in; these are the real deal. I'm no kid (47) and thought I had outgrown driving extremely long stretches till I bought the LS. This car is like a slow luxury business jet. If it had a bigger gas tank it would need a rest room.:)
Comments
Go to the Ford website and put in your information to get a RCL estimate for comparison.
If they charged you list price minus only the $3K rebate, you paid too much for the vehicle up front. They can be had for close to invoice, minus the $3K rebate. Plus there are unconfirmed rumours of an additional $2K in dealer incentives.
Scroll back in the posts here for some examples in the last few days for comparison. jndcav paid almost the same price (if you subtract the $1K loyalty rebate and $500 down payment) and got the same payment but with 15K miles per year.
Well to placate myself in the meantime, I took my gf over for a test-drive this past weekend. The salesman pulled around an LSE and her-and-I did a little zoom-zoom. She'd never been in one before, and actually quite liked it. The car seemed to have a little more power than I remembered from the '00 I test-drove a few years back. I stomped it a little more than I normally would have, since I'm not used to getting the oompf in my SHO unless it's WOT. But so smooth, so quiet - makes my SHO sound like a POS...
Well with 20-30 more HP/torque and the lower-RPM torque, I am going to have so much fun in that car! And as a bonus, now my gf's eyes don't immediately glaze over when I start going on about it.
The traffic and such make an auto my choice now for a daily driver, eventually I will probably pick up something manual for a "toy" for the weekends or days when I want to stir the gears, but to me the LS w/SST is a darned good compromise.
Replacing the SHO was one of the hardest car shopping experiences I've had. The SHO was a great car, the engine howled wonderfully, and it was a great car for stealth speeding, cops thought it looked like a Taurus rental. ;-) The LS doesn't seem to attract too much attention either, thankfully. Definitely a better stealth speeding car than a BMW or Vette/Stang.
As much as I loved the SHO, I don't miss the FWD though. (Even though the SHO handled quite well for a FWD car)
JS
LLSOC Charter Member
reneleblanc & lsv8 thanks for your response on my knocking noise. I have not noticed the advance track signal on the dash so I will just have to wait and see if the dealer finds anything in 2 weeks. I will keep you posted.
Second SHO was a 1993 Green/Saddle loaded. Yamaha V6 and 5 speeed
Third SHO was a 1997 Green/Saddle loaded Yamaha V8 Automatic.
The 1990 was the fastest of the three (options added weight). The 1989 SHO plus was the fastest sho of them all, even had an aluminum hood.
The LS was for me a spiritual successor to the SHO. I would probably still be driving one if they had done another...
HOWEVER, not that I have an LS I could never go back. The comment about RENTAL car is very true. I travel a lot and rent Tauri all the time. The SHO's were fun and LOUD and had a lot of torque steer from the FWD. The LS is in a totally different league...
My gear stirring comes from my 99 Wrangler which I have totally customized and is my play toy!
BUT if I want to get somewhere fast the LS it is. I love the contrast the LS provides versus the very rudimentary technology of the Jeep.
I have the best of both worlds... Now I just need a nice used 911....
I would much rather have all of these seperate vehicles than a single very expensive one...
(Guess I will never be able to afford an M5 Sigh)
I think there's something wrong with your car.
I was hell bent on getting a 2001 V8 sport
for between $25K-$28K. I just read all the
changes to the 2003 from www.llsoc.com.
WOW. Anyone have any idea what its going to
do to the sticker price of the car???
I would assume new list price on a fully
loaded car has to be around 43-45K.
Anyway, part of me says buy a 2003 and drive it
into the ground (since trading it in for a new
one 3 yrs later would mean getting killed with
resale) and the other says just stick with plan
A and get the 2001.
Any opinions? Also - LSV8 owners, what kind of
mileage do you get and how's the car in the
snow???
Thanks,
Ace
The current V8 will get you 16-18 city and 24-27 highway. 2003 is supposed to be the same or slightly better even though it has more power and lower gearing.
No problems with snow but Advance Trac is recommended along with snow tires if you get a lot of the white stuff.
I think the bottom line is that you can get away with all season tires on most FWD cars, but with a RWD car like the LS you need good new all season tires or you need to invest in real snow tires.
Its really just a matter of money. If you can wait until the new year and can afford the money, I don't think you'll be disappointed if you wait for the 2003. You could also get a new 2002 now for a great deal right now. It has a little more power than the 2000/2001.
My 2001 V8 gets 18mpg city/hwy. If you drive only city, expect 16-17. If you take a long trip, expect 22-24.
I haven't had too much experience in the snow with my car yet but so far it performs predictably and confidently. If you're concerned, get AdvanceTrak. If you're in NJ as your username implies (as am I), you shouldn't have any problems unless it snows a couple of feet. My personal opinion is that good snow driving is more in the driver than in the car anyway.
Joe
BTW: I'm the NJ co-director of LLSOC. Hope to see you there.
Thanks
I'm guessing your drone could be either a tire or a bearing. There have been some bearing issues.
Well, you have to go to the dealer now anyhow.
I have a buddy who is a ford mechanic and was trained to work on the SHO v6 back in the late 80's. He described it as the closest thing you could get to an Indy car engine, in a passenger car! When testing initial prototype engines, apparently Ford could run the SHO v6 at 8000+ RPM's all day long.
I reluctantly gave up my SHO after 5 clutch/pressure plate/ throwout bearing R&R's in two years. Great engine, POS transmission.
Does Lincoln market this particular car to an age segment - seems that I always see people driving these cars that are older than I am, at age 37!! No offense, but that is my observation!
The average age of a Town Car customer is around 70.
The average age of a LS customer is around 50, which is probably brought up by lots of traditional Lincoln customers getting LS's too.
There are lots of younger LS drivers, as was shown on a LS driver age poll on llsoc.com. In fact I've gotten lots of complements about mu LS from people as young as 16. The only problem is there are very few 16 year olds who can afford an LS. From the participants on llsoc.com it seems that since used LS's are showing up in the market there are a lot more 20 something year olds now driving LS's, simply most of them can't or won't spend the $$ for a new LS.
I really wouldn't worry about the age of LS owners as I see lots of 50 something people driving BMW 5 series and GS series cars. If you like the LS, get one. You will be pleased at some of the benefits of owning a brand that older people drive, such as low insurance rates.
Anyway the dealer replaced BOTH rear window regulators (I made my wife a copy of the TSB) The drone/humming noise that I heard turned out to be a wheel bearing like someone suggested. Dealer replaced.
Still think the car is the best daily driver I've ever owned. I don't expect something as complicated as a car to be totally problem free as long as they fix the few problems right.
But, this is not the reason you should buy the car. Buy it because you like the way it drives and handles and because you think it is a good value. 2003 models have quite a few changes including variable valve timing and more power. If you drive and like a 2002, you will like a 2003 even more.
I still enjoy Magic Mountain. I love roller coasters. Reminds me of taking 25 mph off-ramps at 65 in my MTX LS.
Not ready for the rolling coffins yet.
If you want a real American V8 Car with European Looks, Handling, and Sophistication (Getting there--2003 Definitely) the LS is for you!
Also, The Cars you mentioned the Lexus GS300, and the BMW 530 are marketed towards same segments as the LS pretty much. IMO Lincoln sees the BMW 5 Series as the Target Competition. Correct me someone if I am off base here.
Regards,
Airwolf1000
LLSOC Texas Chapter Director
P.S. The LLSOC WebMaster is even younger than I am! And we have many in their 20's.
In my opinion, the magazines also feed into the BMW, M/B bias of much of this age group. Like it or not, image meens a lot to those in that age group, and a small tarnish by a magazine can affect a purchase decision.
And, as we've discussed before, Lincoln advertising could be a lot better.
Airwolf: How did you avoid, or deal with, the 'stigma' of buying a Lincoln?
As far as 2002 vs 2003, there will be significant improvements in the 2003. Becuase of this, pricing is very good right now on the 2002s. The 2003s will hit dealer lots sometime in December. So, if you like the car in general but there are a few things that you would like to be different, let us know because that may be changed in the 2003.
LLSOC is an absolutely wonderful group. Mania 4 next summer sounds fantastic!!!! We hope you can join us.....
Chris
LLSOC Charter Member
Arizona Chapter Director
With a cat-back system, K&N, and a 2002 air box, the V-6 Manual will give the V-8 a run for its money until both cars reach about 65 mph. Then the torque and gearing advantage of the V-8 seems to make a difference.
If you are into the cut and thrust of short in-traffic offensive driving, the quick movements of the V-6 MTX are hard to duplicate with the automatic. The MTX is also quicker off the line.
At Mania III at California Speedway, a 2001 MTX had the best slolom time. Chaulk that up to slightly better balance and quick reflexes (Or maybe photographers have better cone vision).
If there are any 2002 MTXes left, they are an incredible buy for the best edition of the LS MTX.
A 220hp MTX almost equals a 252hp V-8 when you consider the loss through an automatic tranny.
But you must drive drive the MTX in a more aggresive manner to extract it's performance potential. With the V-8, it's a lot smoother experience.
It depends on the involvement level you want with the car. Driving is the only excitement and movement I get in my mostly sedentary life.
Besides, all the millionares I know own transmission shops. I figure that with the Manual, I'll never give them any of my money (I'll let them take my wife's money for her car).
Cone-visionator out :>)
I need to go check for flying pigs....... :-)
re the earlier post about noise at highway speed: I'm near the end of my second set of Firehawks. I had a slight, low howling sound from the rear end at all speeds from around 50. At the time the 'Stones had about 25k on them. Rotating the tires changed the sound slightly but that's all. Replacing them at 35k eliminated it. The current tires have about 25k on them and have started to howl. I know the newer models don't have the Firestones so, FWIW.
LLSOC membership is the best investment (a puny one) an LS owner can make, to enhance your knowledge and enjoyment of your car. Yes, this is a shameless plug, but a sincere one.
Scott
Charter member
But my 0-60 time is Awful.
Mileage is just around 19 mpg, with the low tank warning light coming on at 270-300 miles.
The one trip I did take to Central Calif from San Diego yielded a high of 24 mpg.
But the MTX is not exactly a low rpm cruiser. Due to it's gearing, the little Duratech spins at 3,000 rpm at 75 mph.
As a result, you don't have to shift down for almost any grade. But don't expect neck-snapping forces if you want to pass at 90 mph. This little baby is already wound out and looking for virtual overdrive.
So I think the V-8's high overdrive ratio in fifth could easily better the Manual's mileage.
Maybe Mikey can fill us in on the V-6 Auto's mileage potential.
My experience is you will get about one MPG better mileage while highway cruising with the V-6. And you can't go wrong with ANY LS!
The problem was that my LS so effortlessly cruised at 80 MPH and the acceleration was so good anywhere from 50 to 100, that after a couple of hours on the interstate I'd become bored.
All I could think about was -- How long until I can get off the highway and find some good, empty, twisty back roads and have some fun!
Thanks everyone! I now follow this forum faithfully, and enjoy it almost as much as driving my LS on the twisty bits!
I installed 245/45/17 Bridgestone Pole Position SO-3's and they look like a tight fit.
These Summer-only tires have magnificent grip but the ride is for dedicated corner zombies like myself.
I mean, how many tires have "AA" for a Traction rating?
So the all-season Michelins are probably the best ticket for the sane LS driver.
Say your prayers with the 255's. Better be 255/40/17 if you even attempt it. And a 40 series would keep the speedometer error to a minimum. Also, even a 245 is on the edge of acceptability given the limited width of the stock LS Sport wheels. A 255 would probably have accelerated wear on the outside edges of the tread. If it fits.
As for tires (or do you spell it tyres?), I went with Yokohama AVS dB in 245/45/17. They were good tires for about 10K miles. Now (after 20K) they are marginal. I wouldn't buy them again and am seriously looking at Falkens. I have NO clearance problems. I may try 255/45s next, depending on the outcome of an autocross in Phoenix tomorrow.
My '00 V8 Sport will be two years old next week and has 59k miles, so I'm in your ballpark. My commute is 450 miles/wk on rural two lane highways, a few stops and lots of passing (heh,heh) and I get 23.5-24 mpg, about 2 mpg less during winter months due to the gas we get in Colo. At a steady 80-85 on the interstate it will get 26+, I've seen 27 a couple times. In general there doesn't seem to be much difference between V8 & V6 mileage.
I've had one rear window regulator fail, and one burned out light bulb. As yet there are no rattles, squeaks, or air noises. This car has been a gem. slunar is right, and I'll go a little further. Get on a wide open stretch in ideal conditions and decide to have some fun, run it up to 120 or more for a little while. It's so smooth and solid it's almost a non-event, feels like a normal cruise. Then when you slow back down to 80 it feels like the bad old days of the "double nickel."
A year ago LLSOC had a get-together in Dearborn, and I drove home to Greeley, Colo. in one shot, 1250 miles. The car was still fun to drive the next day. Other cars have seats that may feel more comfortable when you first get in; these are the real deal. I'm no kid (47) and thought I had outgrown driving extremely long stretches till I bought the LS. This car is like a slow luxury business jet. If it had a bigger gas tank it would need a rest room.:)