have been a problem for me exactly once. That was when I hauled four 235/50*17 tires to the shop to be mounted. I had to fold the back seat down & let them intrude into the passenger cabin. Try that with your average mid-size sedan.
Chris, the pointy cap really looks OK, and at least you can always find yourself in the group photos.:) But I always thought the "What a yutz!" you used to have on your LLSOC messages was your own idea.:):)
if this has already been pointed out, please disregard: when a manufacturer uses the struts rather than the hinges in the trunk compartment, the opening to the trunk is made smaller by 3-4 inches to accomodate the strut mounting points.
when 0 apr is advertised this is an offer from the manufacturer, not the dealer. the price of the vehicle is one part of the dealer's profit margin, and is bargained for between the sales person/manager and the buyer. remember, the advertised price is just that: advertising. bottom line? 0 apr and invoice are not incompatible, it just takes smart bargaining to get both. jackg
Lincoln tried to change the trunk hinges to struts but it caused NVH problems so they won't change them til the major redesign in 2005/6. Just goes to show you that these types of problems (especially on something as complicated as a new car) are never as easy and straightforward as you might think.
personally, i prefer hinges over struts. they may not have the elegance of design of the struts, but the bigger the opening to the trunk the more user friendly it is imo. jackg
As ezair said, useable space is what really matters. What makes more sense: Hinges, a standard fold-down seat, and 13.5 cu. ft. of space, or struts, a fold-down seat that costs $475 extra, and 10.7 cu. ft. of space? In two years of ownership, the trunk hinges on my LS haven't been a problem even once.
If someone refuses to buy an LS because the trunk has hinges rather than struts, might I suggest a Chevy Venture? The Bugs Bunny edition has 141 cu. ft. of cargo capacity. (I copied this logic from the Marauder forum. )
before I bought the LS. I was really turned off by that "old tech" way to hold up the trunk lid. Fortunately, however, I took the time to take the car on a test ride. I enjoyed the comfort of the seats, the controlled ride, the excellent handling, the smooth acceleration of the V-8, and then decided that I could probably overlook the trunk's antique hinges......LOL!!!!
Have to admit that the only consideration I gave to the trunk of the cars I test-drove was whether or not it would fit a golf bag and a suitcase, which the LS does with room to spare.
I prioritized trunk hinges below other concerns like F-R weight ratio, acceleration, luxury amenities, and interior volume. If I used the car to lug sales samples around or something like that, I would have bought a station wagon (or a Chevy Venture). Maybe Lincoln needs to offer custom-designed luggage to fit their trunk like some of those storage-challenged sports cars do -- but I know I wouldn't buy it.
For all you (us) manual transmission bigots, there is an interesting discussion going on in the New & Views section, under: "Why Doesn't "Big Three" Make RWD, Manual Trans Sport Sedan?"
This is getting like Spy vs. Spy. To throw some more weight on the strut side of the story.
1. The hood on your LS is raised by struts.
2. My wife has had 2 Tarus wagons, bought both of them 1 year old and kept them 5 more years. In 6 years of heavy tailgate use, we never had a strut failure on either. A Taurus steel & glass tailgate is a lot heavier than the LS's aluminum trunk lid too.
3. Another advantage for struts is that most strut operated trunk lids open farther (typically 90 degrees) than the 65 degress the LS trunk opens, which can give easier access.
In 2-1/2 years with my LS I have had about a half a dozen occasions where the trunk hinges have gotten in the way when trying to fill the trunk to the max (My wife would bring the entire house with us on vacation if she could).
Given the choice I would choose struts. However the fact that the LS trunk lid has hinges was just about at the very bottom of my decision check list. Let's face it no car design is perfect in all aspects. There is just so much good about the LS the trunk hinges aren't a big deal to me.
Debbie must be related as well. That's why she drives the Navigator. It should be fun trying to figure out how to pack everything for the road trip to Mania 4 in one little-bitty LS for a week. May have to buy a mini-trailer just to carry her stuff! I'd have to make sure that the trailer could keep up with the car though!!!
When we go on vacation, everything I take is in one of those oversized, duffel bag kind of thingies. It conveniently fits against the back seat of the LS, right under the subwoofers. My wife fills the rest of the car with her "essentials".
I performed a very un LS type ordeal this weekend. No wine tasting or lobster served on a picnic blanket. Rather skin the knuckles and get grease under the finger nails. I bought an EL Camino at a swap meet. It had a good running V6 but this is America - so out with the 6 and in with a HI PO 350 small block. My neighbor lent me his F350 diesel pickup to rent the engine hoist (knock down style)but he was nowhere to be found when I had to return it this morning. The LS swallowed it whole with room to spare.. Just glad my wife didn't see me loading it in. Ray Chartrand LLSOC charter member.
didn't know it was a mystery -- what I DO know is I am not that Saturday Night Live Pat like so many accuse me of, and I really do have to take everything I own anytime I go somewhere.
It has to do with having "choices" when I get there.
""therefore, good quality struts should be used....no resorting to typical Detroit cost trimming methods. ""
I'll take the place where they put the $$ in the LS, true double A arm 4 wheel independent suspension made with forged aluminum A arms, than worring about trunk struts.
How many of those other "quality" import luxury cars are using struts up front?
It bothered me at first, but that was 3 years ago. As explained by the engineers that designed the car, it's not feasible with the current body shell. The horse is not only dead, the funeral is over.
If trunk hinges are an overriding concern, let me suggest the Buick Century. It's got a real nice set of trunk struts to admire while the rest of us admire the LS's F1-inspired suspension pieces.
Ray, I've got a breakdown engine hoist, and of course I get to loan it to friends once in a while.:) Kind of fun, the looks I get, pulling up in the LS and unloading the thing.:) I save any big cardboard boxes I acquire, break them down and stick them up in the garage rafters. They make a great single-use protective "cargo floor".
I'm glad that the ITHs have assumed their proper priority. Annoying, perhaps. Make or break the LS as a performance/luxury car? BAH!
When I look back and see how many posts on this forum are about nit picking minutia, I must conclude that Lincoln didn't leave much room for serious complaints when they designed and built the LS. Other brand/model owners should be so fortunate!
The A4 is SMALL compared to the LS and costs about the same, comparably equipped. The A6, comparably equipped, is much more expensive, as are comparably sized & equipped Mercedes models.
Price counts, too, and it's a bit more important than the mechanism for holding the trunk lid open, IMHO.
The Buick Century is notably LESS expensive than the LS & is likely quite pleasing to the discerning strut aficionado, as drolds1 so aptly observed. It's gratifying to know that the local Buick store can ably serve the strut-buying needs of the American consumer. Is this a great country, or what?
Put in some Firestone Firehawk LH's the Original Spec Tire for the 2000 LS. The Bridgestone tire was a stop gap tire after the Firestone Fiasco. 3 Years Development Time on the Firestone (for the LS) Vs. months development time on Bridgestones(for the LS). The Firehawk is a great tire. I am on my 2nd set right now. You cannot beat it for the money (Around 120+ per tire). They will definitely give you good service for 10 months...
The New Michelins for the 2003 LS though are supposed to be a better tire though.
There aren't many options in the 235/50/17 size - one Michelin, one Firestone and one Bridgestone. For the money, I'd go with the Firestones. They cost about half as much as the Michelins and provide satisfactory performance and wear characteristics.
The Kuhmo 712s are getting good reviews and they're dirt cheap - around $100 each. That's what I was going with if I were only keeping it 10 months. Too bad tirerack doesn't have the Firehawks for $69 each any more!
Regarding cupholders, I heard that the Germans are mystified by American drivers' obsession with cup holders. Due to heavy emphasis on driver training there in order to cope with the demands of high-speed autobahn driving, they can't understand how we can divide our attention between drinking liquids and piloting an automobile.
Every day I see "drivers" drinking coffee, talking on their cell phones, putting on make-up, reading the paper, bopping to hip music, talking with both hands, and navigating our highways, or making left hand turns into traffic, and speeding on bald tires.
Guess we just have more talented "drivers" in this country ;-), than those darn Europeans.
I am looking at the Kumho MX's Next. I have heard great things about Kumho's from autocrossers especially the 712's except regarding wear. ~20K Miles tire lifetime for Kumhos, so that is why I told Kelleyo the Firehawks which have a tread life range of 20K+ to 40K+ miles from what I have read on here and my personal experience 32K miles. He will definitely have some tread when he returns the car with Firestones and they are the spec tire so he won't get any grief.
ok linc, no p***ing and moaning the next time your trying to close your trunk and can't because the annoying gooseneck hinges hit your cargo and won't let you close the trunk.
BOY IT SURE WOULD BE A LUXURY to be able to close my trunk.
Of course what you failed to mention is the collosal fatal wrecks that happen frequently in Germany from those cup holderless drivers traveling at 200+ klicks.
I sure relate to the comments by lsv8 and fantom regarding cup holders. I am certain that Americans have been brain washed into thinking they will dry up and blow away if they don't have a permanent connection to some fluid to continuously guzzle. I recently read an article that stated that people really don't need as much water as some traditional guidelines indicate, and this confirmed my own conclusion. Drinking eight 16 oz. glasses (or whatever it is) of water every day is way more than we need, especially while driving along in a car. Besides, catherization is uncomfortable as all heck, and the alternative of stopping every 30 miles is impractical.
I don't use the cup holders in either of my cars. When I'm driving around in town, I am never in my car long enough that I need to get a drink while I'm driving. Even when I am on a trip, I can get by on getting a drink when I need a pit stop (about every 200 miles) for the output side of the equation. My wife will use the cup holders when we are on a long trip, but I'd rather not because it interferes with shifting the SST during mountain driving.
I admit that I have a couple of water bottle holders on my bicycle, and I find that on a 25 mile bicycle ride out here in Arizona when the temperature is around 90-100° I DO need both bottles. But that is a lot different than riding along in a comfortable air conditioned automobile.
{quote:}"Here is my problem: Only 10 Months to go on my Lease (2000 V8 Sport) and I need tires."{end quote}
I wish I would of had the foresight to LEASE my LS P.O.S. instead of buying it. Its depreciation schedule is so steep it's scary.
Reliability? We had a trip planned to Las Vegas (350 miles away) - decided it would be wiser to rent a car rather than to trust the LS to get us to Las Vegas and back (the LS has already been towed-in twice). This unit is 1 year old and has less than 7,000 miles.
Once you see all the other improvements in the 2003 you'll probably want one anyway. BTW if the HP increases hold to what McLaren promised earlier this year the McLaren LS should be closer to 380 hp rather than 350 (based on 100 hp increase over stock). They couldn't advertise that until the 2003 specs were finalized and announced. Of course it remains to be seen whether they can actually hit that mark or not with the production version.
Lincoln is also rumoured to be producing a factory model with a 5.0L modular V8 producing 400 hp (normally aspirated) and a 6-speed automatic (possibly a 6 speed manual).
Comments
Chris, the pointy cap really looks OK, and at least you can always find yourself in the group photos.:) But I always thought the "What a yutz!" you used to have on your LLSOC messages was your own idea.:):)
accomodate the strut mounting points.
when 0 apr is advertised this is an offer from the manufacturer, not the dealer. the price of the vehicle is one part of the dealer's profit margin, and is bargained for between the sales person/manager and the buyer. remember, the advertised price is just that: advertising. bottom line? 0 apr and invoice are not incompatible, it just takes smart bargaining to get both. jackg
I prefer the hinges.
If someone refuses to buy an LS because the trunk has hinges rather than struts, might I suggest a Chevy Venture? The Bugs Bunny edition has 141 cu. ft. of cargo capacity. (I copied this logic from the Marauder forum.
JLinc, LLSOC charter member
Fortunately, however, I took the time to take the car on a test ride. I enjoyed the comfort of the seats, the controlled ride, the excellent handling, the smooth acceleration of the V-8, and then decided that I could probably overlook the trunk's antique hinges......LOL!!!!
I prioritized trunk hinges below other concerns like F-R weight ratio, acceleration, luxury amenities, and interior volume. If I used the car to lug sales samples around or something like that, I would have bought a station wagon (or a Chevy Venture). Maybe Lincoln needs to offer custom-designed luggage to fit their trunk like some of those storage-challenged sports cars do -- but I know I wouldn't buy it.
They know about the LS stick demise.
1. The hood on your LS is raised by struts.
2. My wife has had 2 Tarus wagons, bought both of them 1 year old and kept them 5 more years. In 6 years of heavy tailgate use, we never had a strut failure on either. A Taurus steel & glass tailgate is a lot heavier than the LS's aluminum trunk lid too.
3. Another advantage for struts is that most strut operated trunk lids open farther (typically 90 degrees) than the 65 degress the LS trunk opens, which can give easier access.
In 2-1/2 years with my LS I have had about a half a dozen occasions where the trunk hinges have gotten in the way when trying to fill the trunk to the max (My wife would bring the entire house with us on vacation if she could).
Given the choice I would choose struts. However the fact that the LS trunk lid has hinges was just about at the very bottom of my decision check list. Let's face it no car design is perfect in all aspects. There is just so much good about the LS the trunk hinges aren't a big deal to me.
I bought an EL Camino at a swap meet. It had a good running V6 but this is America - so out with the 6 and in with a HI PO 350 small block.
My neighbor lent me his F350 diesel pickup to rent the engine hoist (knock down style)but he was nowhere to be found when I had to return it this morning. The LS swallowed it whole with room to spare.. Just glad my wife didn't see me loading it in.
Ray Chartrand
LLSOC charter member.
:-D
OK now multiply everything times all the kids' stuff and you NEVER have enough room in the trunk!
It has to do with having "choices" when I get there.
Heh.
therefore, good quality struts should be used....no resorting to typical Detroit cost trimming methods.
I'll take the place where they put the $$ in the LS, true double A arm 4 wheel independent suspension made with forged aluminum A arms, than worring about trunk struts.
How many of those other "quality" import luxury cars are using struts up front?
It bothered me at first, but that was 3 years ago.
As explained by the engineers that designed the car, it's not feasible with the current body shell. The horse is not only dead, the funeral is over.
If trunk hinges are an overriding concern, let me suggest the Buick Century. It's got a real nice set of trunk struts to admire while the rest of us admire the LS's F1-inspired suspension pieces.
Any lady that knows this much about cars is my kind of woman!
I'm glad that the ITHs have assumed their proper priority. Annoying, perhaps. Make or break the LS as a performance/luxury car? BAH!
Raise your expectations why don't you.
forgivable on a taurus but not on a car competing with A4's and 6's, Mercedes, etc.
Price counts, too, and it's a bit more important than the mechanism for holding the trunk lid open, IMHO.
The Buick Century is notably LESS expensive than the LS & is likely quite pleasing to the discerning strut aficionado, as drolds1 so aptly observed. It's gratifying to know that the local Buick store can ably serve the strut-buying needs of the American consumer. Is this a great country, or what?
Or, as scottc8 said: Bah!
The dealer has told me they can only get Michelen Pilots at $252 each. This is before disposal fees and mount and balance/labor.
I thought the 2002's were shipping with Bridgestones? Why wouldn't the dealer carry the OEM tires? He could not answer that one.
I agree that the Michelin is probably the bast tire to go with but I hate to spend that much when for only 10 months use.
What would be a relatively cheaper alternative?
Thanks
The New Michelins for the 2003 LS though are supposed to be a better tire though.
Best of Luck.
$118 each.
Good choice Kellyo.
Maybe they're onto something...
Guess we just have more talented "drivers" in this country ;-), than those darn Europeans.
BOY IT SURE WOULD BE A LUXURY to be able to close my trunk.
HEY I WOULD EXPECT THAT IN A LUXURY CAR.
I don't use the cup holders in either of my cars. When I'm driving around in town, I am never in my car long enough that I need to get a drink while I'm driving. Even when I am on a trip, I can get by on getting a drink when I need a pit stop (about every 200 miles) for the output side of the equation. My wife will use the cup holders when we are on a long trip, but I'd rather not because it interferes with shifting the SST during mountain driving.
I admit that I have a couple of water bottle holders on my bicycle, and I find that on a 25 mile bicycle ride out here in Arizona when the temperature is around 90-100° I DO need both bottles. But that is a lot different than riding along in a comfortable air conditioned automobile.
I wish I would of had the foresight to LEASE my LS P.O.S. instead of buying it. Its depreciation schedule is so steep it's scary.
Reliability? We had a trip planned to Las Vegas (350 miles away) - decided it would be wiser to rent a car rather than to trust the LS to get us to Las Vegas and back (the LS has already been towed-in twice). This unit is 1 year old and has less than 7,000 miles.
Lincoln is also rumoured to be producing a factory model with a 5.0L modular V8 producing 400 hp (normally aspirated) and a 6-speed automatic (possibly a 6 speed manual).