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Comments
wil
Buy what will make you happy. If an Acura or a Lexus is more up your alley but doesn't have a discount go for it, your better served in the Long Run. If you want more car though in every way go for the LS and take advantage of the deals. Also if I were you I'd go for the V8! Alot more fun than the V-6 Automatic for a few bucks more! I think the LS is the Greatest american Sleeper out right now. I also would think you would have better resale value in the future.
Best of Luck.
Airwolf
Since it already has the Sport package, there is very little you would need to do to the car versus the 2000-2001 model years. The 2002 has an upgraded exhaust and intake from the factory.
My 2000 Manual has been trouble free for over 30,000 miles and I am not a mild driver.
I think you might be surprised at the handling differences at the limit between the MTX LS and your Contour. At LS Mania 3, on a SCCA Solo 2 course last February, a 2001 LS MTX was the fastest car out of many LSes, mostly V-8s!
I love doing 4 wheel drifts in my MTX, as well as taking 25mph off-ramps at 60mph.
Don't forget the Manual LS! Easy clutch, precise Getrag tranny that even a lady can drive easily.
Just to make sure you understand the special deals on the '02 LS, you get your choice of a $3,000 rebate OR 0% APR for up to 60 months.
I've looked at the numbers and the 0% financing comes out a little better.
For example, lets say you take the $3,000 rebate and end up financing $30,000. The best deal I can get right now is from a Credit Union at 4.99% for 60 months. This makes the monthly payment $563.66 per month. This means you would pay a total of $33,819.24 over the 5 year loan period.
If you take the 0% APR for 60 months, you don't get the $3,000 rebate so your financed amount is now $33,000.00. This makes your montly payment $550.00 per month and of course means that you pay $33,000.00 over the 5 year loan period.
In other words, you save $819.24 over the 5 years by taking the 0% APR instead of the $3,000 rebate.
Now as far as getting a V-6 LS verses a ES-300 or 3.2TL, here are my thoughts.
1. With the LS you are getting a true performance sports sedan with near 50/50 weight balance, very fancy forged aluminum dual A arm suspension and true dual exhaust. In addition many of the LS components were derrived from the more expensive Jaguar S-type. Conversely the 3.2TL is really just a fancied up Honda Accord and the ES-300 is really just a fancied up Toyota Camry. Being RWD the LS just plain feels different than the ES-200 or 3.2TL with their 60%+ weight on the front wheels.
2. I have just test driven 3 V-8 LS's (2002's) The trannies in 2 of them shifted flawlessly, the 3rd was a little clunky, so drive another LS or two and see if they shift any better. I have an '00 LS and the 2-3 or 3-2 shifts could be better, but all other shifts are just about perfect.
3. Although I have an '00 V-8, I've test driven V-6's and V-6 performance feels more than adequate to me in most driving situations, even from a standing start. Where the V-8 shines is in its rolling acceleration. This shows up is in passing situations. That is the V-8 acceleration from let's say 40 to 60, 50 to 80 etc. is just plain awsome.
4. As far as V-6 vs. V-8 pricing goes, if both the V-8 and V-6 are equally equipped (same options) the V-8 will MSRP for $2,990 over a V-6 convenience. (The V-6 convenience adds the seat/steering wheel/mirror memoires, Home Link, auto wipers etc. All V-8's come with the convienence package + they also have the message center which is not available on the V-6) If you use 0% APR the V-8 will cost you about $45 per month more than a V-6.
Having owned a LS-8 for 2-1/2 years it would be a simple decision to be. I test drove them all, the ES-300 feels like an improved Taurus. The 3.2 TL was a nice car, but at 6'2 I couldn't fit in the drivers seat (no headroom) and the Acura dealers around here are impossible to deal with. They load up all the Acura's with those useless high profit dealer add on options, so a V-6 LS ends up costing about the same as the real price of a 3.2TL does around here. One other nice thing that the LS has is the fold down rear seats. The 3.2TL has only a very small pass through hole (I don't remember what the ES-300 has).
Finally, make sure you are getting all the dealer discount you should on the LS. Check Edmunds TMV for the exact market pricing (Go to New Car pricing, select Lincoln and then LS), but you should basically be paying invoice + the regional marketing charge. This means for a base V-6 auto with the Convenience Package you should be paying under $33,000 before any taxes or rebates.
I checked the inventory of almost 20 dealers in my area.
Out of over 150 LS's in stock, there is only 1 manual V-6 on a dealerlot. It is North Shore Lincoln Mercury Port Jefferson Sta, NY (That's Long Island).
It is Silver Birch / Deep Charcoal, has the All Weather Pkg, and I think also a moon roof.
Still, I like my V8 LS better. ;-)
I can definitely relate to your comment regarding manuals. In a perfect world, I'd still be driving manuals, as I did for 17 years straight. But traffic and some creeping arthritus have conspired to move me into automatics. It might have been better if I didn't have a souped up Stang, as the clutch on that thing made your left leg look like Arnold Swartzenegger's, and your right leg look like Olive Oil's. Brutal in traffic, I got stuck on the freeway in a snarl for 2 hours and wound up with spasms and charlie horses in my left leg.
So, while I would love a manual car for "fun" driving, for a daily driver I need automatic, especially with the traffic. I find the SST on the LS to be a good compromise between rowing the gears and auto. I can slam it into SST and drive pretty darn aggressively, or put it into D for the drive home if it's been a hard day and traffic is heavy and the car just smoothly carries me home with no muss or fuss in comfort.
That's one of the things I like so much about the LS, it can support a Jeckel and Hyde driving style so well!
JS
LLSOC Charter Member
The perfect car. While many of us get on here and argue which car is better, etc., the best car for anyone changes as they age. I bought my first new car in 1972 and laughed at the salesman when he tried to sell me on getting air conditioning.
Fast forward 30 years later and as far as my daily driver goes if it doesn't have dual zone climate control, heated seats, power memory driver's seat, tilt & telescope wheel, etc., etc., etc............ It won't make my short list.
I've spent a year in an LS-V8 and almost two in an LS-V6 and the only discernible difference for me is the rolling acceleration, as you mentioned, from 50 or 60 MPH on up. But the V-6 is three grand less, and is 3 to 4 MPG better in city driving. Feed your testosterone or save some bucks. It's as simple as that. They are BOTH great cars that I've enjoyed equally... and I am a somewhat aggressive driver :-).
Regarding the MTX (manual transmission); the shame is Lincoln was never committed to it, or supportive of it.
It'll be quite interesting to see how this plays out over the next several years.
Mostly, I'm from Western Canada (Edmonton & Vancouver), but have spent many months in Montreal, for a number of business-related reasons. From '72, when I first arrived at YUL, until last Spring (my most recent visit), I've very much enjoyed coming home to the Motherland via Quebec (for me, the Fatherland is Germany).
If you're going to ask about specific dealers and salespeople, I'm going to have to plead ignorance. For other more general Montreal-related questions, I may be helpful. I've seen a number of LS's up there, and have posted at length a couple of years ago about the wonderful deal the LS was (and probably still is) in Canada, relative to the U.S.
Either way, I'll help you in any way I can with Montreal. More to the point, the people who live there will, also.
It wasn't always so.
Shoot me an e-mail, if you don't want to burden the board with whatever's on your mind (steve.woodard@honeywell.com).
My buddy on the west island has one but his only reason for buying it was that it was cheaper than the Caddies he's bought in the past.
I may be back there next week and can honestly say that roads and traffic are a mess. Doesn't matter where you go, things are torn up and down to one lane. The usual blistering pace prevails with the work crews having one worker and 22 supervisors.
C'est la vie!
Ray Chartrand
LLSOC charter member
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member
2000 V6
Mike
LLSOC Charter Member
2000 V6
I love V-8's, so here are the top 10 reasons to get a LS V-8 insead of a V-6:
10. Ford needs the extra $$$$ they make on a V-8 LS to turn a profit this year.
9. You get the message center with a V-8
8. I still own some Ford stock, if more LS-8's are sold, their a better chance they will raise the dividend back to where is was.
7. The V-8 is smoother than the V-6
6. I'm now buying oil company stocks.
5. The V-8 sounds so much better than the V-6
4. With 0% APR for 60 months, a V-8 is only $46 / month more than a V-6
3. 32 more HP & 46 more ft. lb for V-8 vs. V-6 (Even a bigger difference for '03)
2. You can lease an '02 V8 for only $36 / month more than a V-6
1. The feeling you get when you hit the V-8's gas pedal.
I also saw on Ford's website that from now until September 30 if you use Ford financing you do not have to make a payment until January. There were no details, like are all payments deferred by 3 months or do you have to make a bigger payment in January to avoid additional finance charges? Does is also apply to leases?
Brian, what's up?
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Now where did I put that article, "If Cars Were Built Like Computers"........... >:(
I have found that knowing 0-60 time and a SS quarter mile times is useful in comparing cars that I think I might be interested in purchasing. NB: The published times need to be in the same magazine to be realistically comparable – and there are factors as subtle as exactly where a trans. shift occurs (like just before or just after 60 mph) during full throttle acceleration that ought to be considered . . .
A couple of cars ago (no, not my LS) I had a modification done that was confirmed (same car, same chassis dyno same day, and an hour or 2 later – before and after mod.) to result in an 18 percent increase in both peak HP and TQ – and the area under these respective curves. This was useful to know because having driven the car for a few thousand miles before the mod., I was able to determine a rough correlation between the feel of an 18 percent increase in power, and the difference in quarter mile times with other factors being the same, since (obviously) it was otherwise the same car.
Just my $.03
YMMV
Cheers,
- Ray
Who is ready for another such 18 percent increase (at a reasonable cost) most any day!
haha i laugh hard.....its a 2001. 2 years old already. you can buy a new 2002 for 30k.
In one form or another of this sort of thing has been going on ever since with ringer cars loaned to the car rags.
The green engine is another factor. If you look at most of the C&D long term tests (usually 40,000 miles) they do 0-60 & quarter mile times new and after 40K. Most of the time the 40K times are better, but we have to wonder what the weather conditions were like from one test to the other.
Many cars have been found out to have "blue printed" engines, where the clearances were opened up to reduce friction and create more HP. The guilty parties argue that the tollerances are within specs. (at the max of course) and that by supplying an opened up motor it better matches what it will be like after break in.
That consumers magazine that takes no advertising buys cars off of dealer lots and then tests them to specifically eliminate the factory ringer situation. But then again they evaluate buying cars with the same mindset as buying a washing machine.
Make us both feel about 30 years younger ;-))))
If anyone would like to see actual pictures of the 2003 LS, you may want to consider a 30-day complimentary LLSOC membership where there is a very comprehensive photo gallery depicting both the interior and exterior changes.
The biggest kick I get is that some of the trial members are dealer personnel who are really curious about the 2003 LS and are coming to the LLSOC site to check out the pictures!
Ok, so my posts on the club forums are censored and I have to wear a dunce cap at the Mania events, but it's still a great group...
What an informed buyer I'm going to be! I can't wait for the '03 V8...