Lincoln LS

desertguy

As leadfoot4 stated in an earlier post, it is a good idea to pull the plugs and apply a little anti-seize to the threads. Sometime before 50K would be good. I have read in the car mags and also Click & Clack in the paper that if you leave the plugs in for 100k they are a real bear to get out, often stripping the threads in the process. Of course if you don't plan on keeping the car to 100k the new owner will be on his own!

albanyto

I own a 2001 LS8 with just over 15000 miles on the clock, regularly serviced and it runs like a dream. It had absolutely no problem until recently when I began to smell something like burning rubber coming in for the air vent whenever I brought the car to a stop after a short run or when I left the car idling for a while. I have taken the car to the local LM dealer(nice people) three times in the last two months, but they have not been able to find the source of the problem. At first, they thought there was something touching the exhaust system, but couldn't find any. As long as the car is travelling, everything seems fine. The smell only comes when the car is standing still with the engine running! Couldn't spot anything abnormal under the hood. Has anyone experienced this problem? I would appreciate any advice.

airwolf1000

Ronnie,

Take you car to the DEALER ASAP and have it replaced or Bag your mirror with something ASAP. This happened to my car and I waited for two days before taking my car to the dealer to get the mirror replaced. It was too late.

Long Story short- Mine was not dimming at the top and two days later the Bluish-black/green fluid had eaten a hole through the bottom of the mirror and leaked onto the WUD around the Ashtray in front of the shifter. It melted the WUD Veneer right off! Had to have the WUD Panel Ordered and Replaced (Panel with Heated Seats Rare in Texas).

I was lucky I only got a small splotch on the Dash and it stained it permanently. As we all know here nobody wants a Dashboard Replaced. Introduces alot of rattles if someone has to go through that process.

Hope this helps Ronnie.

Regards,
Airwolf1000

scottc8

IIRC, Brian changed his around 35k and said they were a bear to remove. I mentioned this to the mechanic at the dealership and he said they weren't any worse at around 75k, which is what he recommends. He does agree that the car will run fine for at least 100k on the originals, but that's asking for trouble when it comes time to change them.

lsv8

From today's CarConnection:

"And lastly, the new director of the Ford Performance Group, of which SVT is a part, says the Lincoln LS might be the next vehicle it has in mind for a little massaging:

'We’re not tipping our hand to the competition, but we’re obviously testing the market for entries in other markets,' said Michael R. Zevalkink, executive director of the Ford Performance Group."

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5494&sid=173&n=156

leadfoot4

..on the 2003 LS in the new issue. Once again, the LS gets the "Rodney Dangerfield" award for no respect.
They mention the new tweaks, but water down their praise by slamming some of the appearance changes in the interior, still whine about the power to weight ratio, and complain big-time about the increased prices. Oh well, I guess we're used to the abuse by now.....

slunar

I've read and re-read the C&D Short Take 5 times now. It appears to me that they not only like the '03 LS but are impressed by its performance, handling, ride, quiet cabin etc.

On the other hand they appear to be making excuses as to why they don't like it and why the auto buying public won't want a LS either. The primary excuse appears to simply be that Lincoln does not have the prestige that BMW, Lexus & Mercedes have. In the article they essentially justify purchasing a luxury car for prestige instead of substance and decide that Lincoln simply doesn't have the cachet to compete in this market segment.

Unfortunately due to Lincoln's product legacy from the 1975 through 1998 C&D is mostly right.

chartrand

Away from my baby for the second week in a row. Last week in Indy I rented a Mazda 626 which I consider an A to B car. Nothing exciting, it just gets you there. This week in Chicago I have an 03 Maxima. It goes like a scaled cat but at a price. The first toll booth I pulled out of, I tried to get the jump on a truck in the lane beside me. Forgetting this was a front driver, when I nailed it the car jumped a lane and a half to the left,leaving me somewhat surprised. It's been raining most of the week and I can barely keep this thing between the two ditches. Accelerating with any force at all breaks the front wheels loose and it'll keep skating till you back off. I've also slid through two stop signs. All go is not so great if you can't control the power.
Hope my LS starts this time after another week at the airport.
Ray Chartrand

desertguy

Interestingly, I just rented a '02 Nissan Maxima from Hertz to drive from Phoenix to San Diego and back. Always heard what a great engine it has. Car was loaded and had about 13k on it. I can tell you that while the engine performed very nicely, the torque steer was incredible. If you gunned this car while turning at all, you better hang on for dear life as it would try to rip the wheel from your hands.

cdnpinhead

that Irvine is the home of the "Premier Auto Group." Ford appears to have decided that Lincoln isn't a "Premier Auto." While the goal four years or so ago was to compete with Europe & Asia's best, it now appears to be to hang in there with Cadillac. However, if Cadillac continues to try to compete with Europe, we may yet prevail.

This is an extra-special example of the American large corporation thought process at work -- make a decision, move heaven and earth to support it, let (not much) time pass, rescind the decision. Make of it what you will, but it'll be interesting to see how the LS does in the market over the next ten years. Mine's been pretty good so far, but it's obvious that I'm on my own -- most of the people who buy LS's do so for reasons totally foreign (pardon the word play) to me.

scottc8

Bear in mind, the LS was created before Lincoln became part of PAG, and the people most responsible for it work in Dearborn. This is not a big deal, and certainly no reflection on Lincoln's place in the Ford corporate structure.

Besides, Dearborn is where the SVT team works.:)

regfootball

has available limited slip diff to help the torque steer.

buckwheat

To corroborate the above:

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=13676

pat

Shotols, we can't just copy and paste articles from other sources here because of copyright issues. Links are the way to go.

Email me if you have any questions.

novoq

With the 2003 model year, I think Lincoln has arrived as a premium automaker. All of the 2003 Lincoln models seem to be world class. I expected the Aviator to be a good vehicle, but after reading the new Car and Driver, Dec 2002, I'm surprised at how good it really is. It is apparently VERY VERY good.

It's fast, 0-60 in 7.6sec, faster than Acura and Lexus, it brakes well, lots shorter than the Acura and has an awesome ride and steering according to Car and Driver. The editors couldn't get over how well the Aviator rode and handled and how well the 5 speed transmission shifted.

The engine feels "as smooth as a BMW X5."

Kudos to Lincoln, they did their homework on the 2003s. I think the new LS will be awesome.

stanny1

Gee, at 7.6 seconds from 0-60, the Aviator will embarass many V-6 LS owners!
Makes you wonder what an LS would do with this 300hp DOHC Intech V-8!

corsicachevy

"Makes you wonder what an LS would do with this 300hp DOHC Intech V-8!" - stanny.

The answer? The car would get nose-heavy and would lose its poise and balance. :-) I would much rather have Lincoln slip the lighter, more compact 300hp 4.2V8 from the Jaguar line into the LS.

From what Car and Driver said the 2003 LS is a worthy competitor for the German and Japanese brands - as long as the customer isn't concerned with snob appeal. I like all of the modifications to the car - except the price. However, Ford will likely offer steep discounts soon after the vehicle is introduced.

ronniepooh

i think C&D is the same rage that praised every aspect of the G35, ranking it #1. Then two months later, the engine suddenly became rough and raucaus, the handling not as crisp, and the car dropped in rank from 1 to 3 or 4.

and why do I get a feeling that this 7.6 0-60 for the Aviator will never be repeated by any other mag again? If I recall, the LS's had much quicker 0-60 test times initially...then later on, they "got" slower.

drolds1

As told to us by Lincoln engineers, the 4.6 is only about 50lbs. heavier than the AJ V8 in LS trim. Look for it to supplant the current 3.9L in a couple of years.

The LS that C&D reported on was a fully loaded Premium Sport with THX/Navigation, etc. A 2003 Sport's MSRP is only about $1K more than a 2002 and is a better equipped and improved sport edition. Don't be misled by C&D's usual attempt to find something to criticize about the LS.

corsicachevy

The DOHC 4.6V8 appears to be such a massive engine. I though for sure it would weigh considerably more than the 3.9V8 in the LS - an engine that looks quite compact. Drolds, I'll take your word for it.

lateralg

Aluminum or cast iron block on the 4.6?

lolaj42

drolds (Artie) is right about the weight differences between the 3.9 liter (AJ) V8 engine and 4.6 liter engine . . . there's minimual difference in block size and weight when comparing the aluminum block versions (less than 50 lbs difference). At least that's what Lincoln engineers told the owners club at a plant tour of the Wixom, Michigan assembly facility. As Artie said, look for Lincoln to replace the smooth running AJV8 with the 4.6 liter engine (or variant thereof) in the future.

brucelinc

Folks, I apologize for being so off-topic but I have a question for Mark.

In addition to my LS, I have a Ranger with the SOHC 4.0, 5R55E transmission and 4.10 gear. The transmission is a kissing cousin to the LS and I know that 2nd is 1ST/OD. I believe the ratios are 2.47,1.85,1.47, 1.00, and .75. My question is this: If I manually select "2" with the shift lever, am I getting 1.85 or 1.47? The shifter only allows 1, 2, and OD (with an OD lock-out on the lever). Thanks.

akirby

I can answer that one. If you choose 2nd gear it will start and stay in 2nd gear. Same for 1st.
Don't worry about how 2nd gear is selected - it's still 2nd gear (1.85 in your list).

circlea

i bought i 2000 ls model lincoln in august of this year. i have had moisture problems in both headlights. i was wondering if anyone else has had this problem too. when i took it to the dealer to fix it the dealer said that lincoln was no longer fixing this problem under warranty. lincoln says that the headlights will burn the moisture out and as long as there is no standing water in the headlight they will not replace them. i was a little upset and wanted to know if anyone else has had this problem with the dealers not willing to fix this. i have no complaints other than this. it is a great car!!! thanks

akirby

Your dealer didn't give you the complete story. Lincoln is not replacing the headlights because it doesn't fix the problem. It may work for awhile but the moisture will come back. Lincoln doesn't have a permanent fix yet. The seal is obviously leaking where it isn't supposed to. When Lincoln figures out how to fix it permanently they'll issue a TSB and probably (this is my guess here) even fix cars out of warranty since it's been a known problem for so long and on so many cars. It can normally be dissipated by the heat from the headlights. Make sure you keep the service order from the dealer showing the problem and I'm sure you'll get it fixed when a fix becomes available. Your dealer makes it sound like Lincoln is simply refusing to fix them and that's not true.

mkovalsk

Yes, I'm still here!

Rangers are strange. If you select "2", you get the 1.47:1 ratio. It was explained to me that that was the ratio in 2 position in the four speed, so they gave you the same ratio.

Mark

drolds1

I second what akirby is telling you. I just had my 2nd set of headlights warrantied this week. However, my passenger's side looked like someone's science project. If you have minimal fogging that dissipates with the heat of the headlights, they're not going to replace them until there's a permanent fix.

Having said that, I really can't understand why this is an insurmountable problem.

slunar

I have heard a lot of complaints about fogged headlamps on Crown Victorias and Grand Marquis too.

I never had the problem on my '00 LS

akirby

Wow - that really is strange, Mark! Not to mention misleading. Thanks for the correction.

akirby

Artie - my guess is they've been so busy working on the 2003 that they just haven't had any resources to work on it. Either that or it's a much more difficult engineering problem than we think it is.

scottc8

What's odd is that individual cars either have repeated fogging problems, or little or none. My '00 lamps will fog halfway up from the bottom if I wash it on a cold day or a very hot one, but never fail to clear up within a few hours. It seems obvious the problem is the lamp assembly itself and has nothing to do with the rest of the car. Guess some of us are just lucky with the original lamps. Climate may be a factor, too; it's dry where I live.

ezaircon4jc

Is that a dry cold in February then ?

brucelinc

Based on the RPM readings, I thought I was getting the 1.47 ratio! Thanks for confirming. For towing, mountain driving, and off-roading, I wish it was like the LS or Explorer - you can manually select and hold the ratio you want. Overall, it works quite well as is, though. Thanks, again! Now, back to the LS.....

chartrand

I've consulted to an auto parts supply firm in Battle Creek MI. They produce head lamp and taillights for many different cars. The attention to detail that goes into inspecting the assemblies is amazing. In fact, I once told the plant manager that if they spent half as much time going over their electronic assemblies in their other division, that there would be very few defects.
Given the 03 units are being produced and the spares for the 00-02 are already made, I can see where this is a major issue to resolve. If the seal is poor, the unit has to be scrapped as it can't be disassembled. I'm sure the bean counters have done their probability studies like the 1 in 5000 rear window failure calculation and the numbers can't justify scrapping everything in inventory and starting over. They probably hope people will just get tired of hearing no as an answer and go away.

akirby

If the seal can't easily be fixed then I think the next best thing would be 1 or 2 strategically placed 3/8" holes to allow the trapped water to evaporate. That would be an easy fix if it works.

chartrand

I don't think the holes would work. The units are sealed for a reason. Yes the hole would allow moisture to escape but it would also allow dirt in. You'd have to get a brush through your access holes to clean the insides.
My 2 cents

akirby

Ray - they're not sealed but I think the venting is minimal since they never expected more than just high humidity. But it is a little risky and could let in dirt, dust or more water.

scottc8

at least, compared to a certain sunny vacation spot I visited last February. :)

no1trust

I'm about to buy a new luxury sport sedan (or coupe like the G35). I've ruled out the 2002 LS. I went to a local Lincoln dealer last weekend to see when the 2003 would be in (was told in January). I asked the salesperson what changes are in store for the 2003. I was told that the 2003 changes are "minimal" w/no further explanation. The salesperson then went on to mention the benefits of 0% financing/$5000 off if I would be interested in a 2002 (which I wasn't).

Are there any changes to the driver's seat (besides heated), or is it the same as in the 2002 LS? What does the instrument cluster look like, the same? Any links where I can see the interior for the 2003? Any help for someone who would prefer to buy a North American product would be greatly appreciated.

akirby

Your dealer was...umm...being less than truthful. Try this press release from Lincoln:

http://media.ford.com/products/press_article_display.cfm?article_id=12831&vehicle_id=718&make_id=93

HID headlamps, heated AND COOLED seats, THX stereo/DVD Nav, Satin Nickel center stack, electric parking brake, electronic throttle control, more power (V8 now makes 280 hp).

OTOH - you can't beat the deals on the leftover 2002s. Dealers should have cars on their lots next month. I don't think you can go wrong either way.

scottc8

Besides the cooled front seats, the '03 will have rear seat heating available. It's funny you ask this question. The seats in my '00 are my favorite thing about the cabin. I sat in an '03 LS in Feb. and was so busy looking at other things I don't recall noticing if they felt any different than mine.

Absolutely, the dealer is blowing smoke. Besides the improvements Allen has mentioned, they've done a lot of experimenting with materials for suspension bushings in an effort to improve the ride and reduce NVH, and they've really sweated the details. The ZF steering box is new, and they've also improved the auto trans.

That said, I would also have a hard time walking away from the '02 at today's prices. But, we're already sold on the car.

no1trust

I know that sometimes car salespeople don't know the product like they should, that's why I come to Edmunds... to get the firsthand info from the owners. COOLED seats, eh... good for the desert I live in.

Regardless of the deals for 2002, I'm not interested. I wouldn't be happy in the long run. It's a great car to drive, but Lincoln didn't do the interior of the 2002 justice for me. The interior (IMHO) deserved better. I had no complaints w/the current horsepower.

My main gripe w/the interior of the 2002 is the seat. I've rented several over the last few months and after my typical 5-6 hour jaunts one way I really feel it in that seat... don't know why. I can't seem to raise it high enough or get it in a truly comfortable position like I can in some other vehicles (believe me, I've tried). The other shortcomings I could have lived with, but not to be worn out while driving (excessively) in the manner to which I've become accustomed.

Looking forward to a firsthand drive in the 2003 before I commit. Maybe Hertz will even have a 2003 in their Prestige collection for rental.

ezaircon4jc

That's really weird. We stayed in a motel with a really bad bed. My back was killing me at 2am. I couldn't wait to get started the next day and get back into my comfortable drivers seat. After 15 minutes my back felt fine and we drove the next 10.5 hours in comfort. One of the things I really love about this car is that I can drive 12+ hours and get out of the car ready for more. Maybe it's those abused rental car seats?

no1trust

The cars IMHO were no more abused than other rental cars I've tested; some models were consistently comfortable no matter what company rented them, and others were consistently not to my liking. I guess everyone's body is not built the same, just like every driver's seat is not constructed the same between car makers.

At least I can anticipate trying the 2003 before I buy my car. Lincoln may make me a customer yet w/the redesign, in spite of the misinformation by some of the salespeople.

lobsenza

no1trust - your comment on the seat is very interesting. Almost everyone I heard love the seat comfort. I understand people are built differently, but you are the first person I have heard make this comment. I assume you are talking about the dirver's seat, not the passengers, correct? The front passenger seat is not as comfortable as the driver because it doesn't have as many adjustments. I believe the 8 way power could be retrofitted to the passengers side with a little work.

slunar

Put me down as another driver who loves the '00 - '02 LS seats. The driver's seat of my '00 LS felt near perfect the first time I sat in it. Although to be comfortable on long trips it took several attempts at adjusting the seat tilt to get it right for those 6 hr drives. I guess that we're all built differently though. I ruled out the 3.2 TL because I just could not get comfortable in it's driver's seat. When I've said this to 3.2TL owners they tend to get really nasty and belligerent at the thought that someone would think that their car isn't perfect.

There are even more improvements in the '03 LS than previously mentioned. The leather and interior materials are better quality. I believe the quote C&D made as "..otherwise well stitched together interior." The otherwise was that they weren't real happy with the gages and nickel trim on the center stack.

Other new items for '03 are an improved transmission, even hard to please C&D commented positively on the trannie. THX audio / navigation system option. Lots of interior storage compartments, electric parking brake, new wheels, puddle lamps on mirrors, auto dimming driver's outside mirror, cleaned up exterior with items like the black trim under the doors now 1 piece, polished exhaust tips that go straight back, improved handling, C&D measured a "useful .84g on the skid pad." (their words, the old sport did ~ .82g) and improved ride.

I'm sure that there are several other items that I forgot, but the early press reviews of the LS have been extremely positive. This biggest knock against the '03 LS that anyone from the press has been able to come up with so far is that Lincoln doesn't have the prestige of BMW, Lexus or Mercedes.

herman9

I also am surprised by the seat comfort concerns. The two things that sold us on the LS were the way it drove and the seat comfort. The rear seats are incredible. So one possibility is to hire a driver and ride in the back.

However, how many O2's did you drive? We test drove 4 when we were looking at them and there was 1 LS where the seats were awful. The back seats didn't feel right and I couldn't get comfortable in the drivers seat. The entire family noticed the bad seats in that one vehicle. It was bizarre to say the least.

no1trust

I'm also indifferent to the "prestige" name plates; Lincoln is certainly elegant & prestigious enough to me.

As for comments about seat comfort being less than ideal, I think there was a recent poster here to that effect. Some people may be reluctant to post because negative criticism might invite attack on the post (i.e. my firsthand experience w/the LS being labelled as "weird" might be taken the wrong way).

I know that this forum is subject to trolls (like any other) and can bring out a lot of passion for and against the product. I had a similar experience w/the CTS when I checked the car out at the dealer and commented on the lack of lumbar control that is so commonly available in other luxury/sport sedans... some pro-CTS got really hot about it (probably thought it was a sneak attack by a troll). I do hope this forum is a little more civil about differing firsthand experiences.

I don't pan the LS. Since the redesign is so close to when I'm buying I'll get a chance to see if the 2003 will work for me... if I'm luckier the 2003 will also be available at Hertz so I can take my usual long jaunts in extended test drives.

The other improvements you've all been kind enough to mention do have me intrigued enough to consider the 2003; I'm looking forward to it. This feature I'm at a loss at: what's the benefit of an electric parking brake? Is it a theft deterrent?

no1trust

Just saw your post... I would say at least 4 of the 02s I successfully rented (I had to return 2 others within the first hour of rental and exchange them due to malfunctioning CD players... however, their seats felt the same). My experience was the same w/each interstate rental, and I'm "selfish" enough to be the only driver of the car:)

I can't say anything at all about the passenger seats; I'm never the passenger. My car will be MY toy; a reward for paying off most of my other debts. If passengers don't like their seats in my toy... oh well.

I don't have kids or infirm relations in the household, so I'm indifferent to rear seating; the main purpose for my next purchase will be for civilized interstates, the occasion winding road like around Julian, Ca., and urban driving. I have my SUV for other more remote treks.

It would be nice to have a Big 3 brand in my driveway, but the comfort is a top priority for me due to the amount of pleasure driving I do.