By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Overall, I agree that both the I-6 and V-6 engines have their advantages and disadvantages, depending upon their application. However, neither engine has an inherent advantage over another with regard to smoothness or performance capability.
I have to give BMW marketing a lot of credit. They took an essentially obsolete engine design (for use in cars), the inline 6 and have you Cool-Aid drinkers actually thinking that there is something wonderful about an I-6! What a great way to save on tooling costs!
Just for the record, a 90 degree V-8 is inherently an smoother engine than and I-6.
An inline 8 cyl is even smoother than and I-6! In my youth I had 2 I-8's in old Buicks. The sure were smoother than any I-6 I've driven. How come you inline fans aren't insisting that the auto manufacturers start building inline 8's?
A 60 degree V-6 is also a smooth engine without any balancing shafts. You guys are still stuck in the 1970's when GM was making 90 degree V-6's before they came up with the split rod journals to even out the firing order.
How come when BMW started getting its [non-permissible content removed] kicked in sports car racing they had to resort to putting V-8's in their 3 series race cars in order to be competitive? Then BMW lied to ALMS and said they would actually be building V-8 3 series for the street which they have yet to do.
If the I-6 is so great, why doesn't BMW offer it for sale in the US in the 7 Series?
The main advantage of an I-6 is low side loading on the cylinder walls. This makes the I-6 suited to be a long stroke low RPM engine FOR USE IN TRUCKS.
One of the disadvantages of the I-6 is that its long crankshaft length requires more main bearings (more friction and hense more HP losses) and / or larger crank vibrations dampers to dampen out those long crank harmonic vibrations, again more parisitic losses.
Bottom line: A V-8 IS BETTER THAN AN I-6 ANY DAY and with the LS you get a V-8 for less $$ than a BMW I-6.
For most passenger car applications there really isn't any significant difference between a 60 degree V-6 and an I-6, other than the V-6 has some advantages in packaging.
Finally, a flat 6 (180 degrees)is FAR better than an I-6. How come you guys aren't clamoring for flat 6 engines. Answer: BMW doen't offer flat 6 Cool-Aid!
Don't you know poor Pat is, as we speak, at her local pharmacy filling an old prescription for tranquilizers ! And I understand that she just got off the phone with her psychotherapist !
Please have a heart. Don't go down that path again ! :-)))))))
Joe
PS: But what about a W6 ?!?!?!
tlahaye, you win the prize!!!!!!
I'm actually pretty ambivalent about the sixes. I've owned and driven so many of them, from slant sixes to the (was it 250cid) Ford I6 truck engine to the 3.8 V6 and the Duratech. They were all good engines.
I bought my LS because it had a V8.
JoeLincoln, I'm really struggling imagining that W6!
I had a '91 Sable with the 3.8L motor. We traded it in for the LS with 175K miles and got $1500 for it. The only "non-wear" repairs we made were (and these were all at over 125K) the water pump, A/C clutch and the radiator was replaced. I can't think of anything else. I did have the tranny rebuilt at around 90K, but that was covered by a recall. My mechanic told me that as long as the engine didn't overheat, it would last 200K easily! I also didn't have a head gasket issue.
Did someone unplug your CRT so you needed to generate some stress elsewhere?
I think one man had his tranny replaced twice for the slow-to-shift problem. When I read the post - I'm thinking all he probably needed was the reflash... HELLO??? -Okay maybe there were other problems, but I wouldn't be one bit surprised if that were really the case.
One lady had her rear windows fail 7 times. I had 3 failures - that was ENOUGH!
I do realize that the people that posted negatively probably sought out the site to vent and that is why there are more complaints than praises... but it is really too bad that they didn't have access to sites like this or an owner's club site to access for help, when they were having the problems...
I've had my share of minor problems - but I knew they were coming and was armed the proper TSB's and info. to give to the dealer.
I had a 1951 Buick Road Master, straight 8 with Dynaflow. Just like yours it was very smooth and very slow. You also forgot about how bad its gas mileage was. I think the best I ever got was around 15 MPG and often saw 10 - 12 MPG around town. Good thing gas was less than 30 cents a gallon when I owned it!
Suddenly a LS V-8 doesn't sound all that bad, even if it has one of those horrible V type engines instead of a wonderful inline engine (:-.
We should return to the brochures discussion or something. Might I suggest the pros and cons of Armour All for tires?
I just wanted to see who would bite :0. I was actually trying to lighten things up. I was a little surprised that you-know-who didn't get involved.My CRT has been crowded with, shall we be PC and say, visually challenged pilots lately. For added stress, I just shift my hours a bit and try to make my 23 mile, 25 minute commute into a ONE HOUR NIGHTMARE
Now that I realize that I cannot state my OPINION about some engines that I have owned and worked on with out being pounced on by the self appointed "board watch dogs" (not Pat) I decided it would be best not to stir the pot any further.
I also post frequently in the Jeep Wrangeler forum and can tell you that it is infinitly more friendly than the LS board is.
In fact, I used to tell a joke about the difference between a BMW and a Porcupine...
I think I can now replace BMW with LS based on this board.
If you knew how much angst this engine-type issue generated duing the early period of this board, believe me, you'd gladly steer clear of the topic.
The "V vs. Straight 6" Dead Horse has been thoroughly Beaten.
...And the BMW "...are on the inside..." joke does apply more to BMW owners than LS owners, IMHO.
It appears memories surrounding this topic are fine (if not fond), and I suspect Kellyeo was unaware of its history (his post was pretty early in the thread).
I also think this is almost always a very civil board, and that's key to what makes it worth reading. Still, when bait is dangled, we LS owners could could probably test it a little more carefully before swallowing the hook. Lets face it; in this case, it was a regular who baited the hook in the first place.
One night as he is sitting at the computer typing lame I-6 comments for his imaginary cyber friends, she goes into the bedroom, takes off all her clothes, puts on a full length fur coat and she posts herself between her husband and his monitor.
She pulls open the coat and yells, "Time for some Super Sex!" He ignores her. So, she repeatedly yells, "Super Sex! Super Sex! Super Sex!"
Finally he looks up and replies, "Okay, I'll take the soup!"
Geez, he could've at least had the decency to ask what kind of soup!
The ultimate in engine smoothness is the 3-rotor Wankel engine. Beats any 4,6,8,10,12,16 cylinder engine. Anyone remember the commercial? "boing, boing versus hummmm"?
Now I ask your forgivness for dredging this up. I promise not to do it again, even in jest.
Mike
Since you don't visit the (unmentionable) place much I noticed it was your birthday today! Happy Birthday!
Brian
Anyone had this problem in the past?
Ray Chartrand
I travel a lot, and have left my LS idle for up to 2 1/2 weeks without a problem. In addition to which, living in the desert, the environment isn't favorable to batteries -- hot, hot, hot.
Of course, the good news is that, with the battery in the trunk, the environment is as good as it could be.
I need to spend time up on the "official" LS site but lately have been busy workin those 100+ hour weeks in Real Estate.
Got to make hay while there is a market here in SoCal. Things are beginning to change here. Longer marketing times and weaker prices. When a 1200 square foot house that's 17 years old sells for over $400k and that's inland from the ocean 15 miles, no wonder they don't sell quickly.
Even at today's low interest rates that's a payment of $2500 a month or more.
For you "back East", that's a single level tract house with stucco outside, a two car garage, tile roof and no basement (what's a basement?).
On a big 6000 square foot lot (about 1/8th acre).
I just listed one of these today in a place called Scripps Ranch, known for it's "country living" (what a joke) but it's filled with Eucalyptus trees planted by famed newspaper baron E.W. Scripps, who once lived there.
The only life I have is driving my 2000 MTX LS 65 mph on 25mph posted off ramps and giving kids in gingerbreaded Civics a bad time.
They probably say: "Who's the old man reving up that unidentifiable car with the loud exhaust?"
Of course, it's probably in Spanish like: "Quien es ese pinchi gringo viejo en el carro blanco con
el mofle ruidoso?
Anyway, you are only as old as you shift.
I'm off again tomorrow for a week so I'll know as I'll turn the detector off this time.
Super service from the dealer I love to hate.(Don Davis).
I called in from the airport parking to see what they could do for me (noon on Sat.) I went into their voice mail where I described the situation at the airport and left my cell number. It'll be interesting to see how long (if ever) it takes them to get back to me.
Ray Chartrand
BTW, the car ('00 V8 Sport) turned two years old Oct. 15 and 60k miles Oct. 28. Total defects so far: One rear window regulator, one tail light bulb. Zero vibrations, zero squeaks, one slight rattle in the driver's window when the temp gets down to 10F or so. It's maintained by the book and driven, um, with gusto
Tienes Mucha Razon...
Pero cuando quieras correr tu V6-Manual contra mi V8 Sport hay me hechas un Telefonazo! A ver si es cierto que el Gringo es tan picoso como dice!
Saludos,
Airwolf1000
(El nino sin el Civic Gingerbread pero con el V8 Sport LS!)
Let me add, Happy Birthday, nino. I hit 54 back in June. What are you planning to replace the LS with? You gonna buy the lease out? May as well put something in here to activate the board. Remember when we put 20 - 40 posts a day here? Probably not, but it did happen, back in the days of L8_Apex.
No offense, Pat -- it's not you. While most of the "regulars" have gone to that nameless private board, many of us still monitor here and I, for one, wonder at the lack of participation by new people who are curious about the LS.
Maybe they too have gone somewhere else.
Hey, Vic, we'll go at it at the next Mania.
July 1 is when my lease is up, and the automotive world is changing fast. I could do worse than buy my LS. It has been essentially trouble-free and I have driven the you-know-what out of it.
I have grown to respect the little Duratech. It's still tight at 33k. But I wonder when the spark plugs and brakes will need replacement. The clutch should get a purple heart and shows no apparent weakness.
Has anyone tried a plug replacement? Does one replace the intake manifold gasket upon removal of same on one bank to get access to those 3 plugs? Sounds like a major and expensive job for what it's worth. I have had cars with platinum plugs but they all look fried and have flashover marks by 30k. Mechanics have told me about plug changes at 90k. The engines still pass smog but the plug electrodes are totally gone!
I totally trust this car and it's a daily driver for sure. I use the handling potential everyday and love to hunt the limit. Too bad the Bridgestone SO-3's have so much traction. It's really hard to intentionally break them loose and have some slidin' fun. These have got to be the ticket for corners if you don't care about ride quality. Your mama wouldn't like this Lincoln!
Maybe the crack Lincoln marketing team will just call it an early release of the 04. Seems like either the 03 will have a very short run or this will become the norm for the LS.
63k on mine now, and all is well. The Duratech is a great engine.
Do have the following issues I need to address:
The electromatic rear view mirror seems to be losing its dimming around the edges.
Theres a rattle under the front end, or either under the dash. If its under the dash, it could be due to my installation of an FM modulator under there for my headrest mounted LCD screens/trunk mounted DVD player.
Anyone had to change the bulbs for the rear license plate yet? I can almost guarantee you will snap off the little plastic tabs that hold the bulb housing in. My fix was to use double face tape which has now gave away. Time to fix again.
Pass side rear seat belt still wont pull out. Ill need to take it out and examine this weekend.
Front end shimmy. Im certain its wheel balance, and Im also certain I probably have at least 1 wheel slightly bent. DC roads havent been as bad as they have in the past, but still bad enough to bend the occassional rim.
With the TC update, Navigator update & Aviator intro, I suspect that the folks at Lincoln have had their hands full this year.
That's strange. I heard Mr. Goss on the radio a few months back and his reply to the same question was that no one should let the plugs go for the recomended 100K interval. He stated that yes because of todays "hot" ignitions almost anything will fire but because of the temperatures today lots of metal leaves the electrodes and falls down into the cylinders doing damage. He stated that they have pulled plat. plugs on various cars at 100K and there was almost nothing left of the plugs. Now you can just imagine what kind of damage those lost chunks of metal could do. I for one won't be waiting till 100K to do the change. It's just not that expensive considering ...........
As for metal in the cylinders from the plugs, it's not like chunks of electrode fall off. They wear away from the combustion temperature and intense voltage over time.
I just changed the plugs in my 350 El Camino where I could walk around inside the engine compartment.
I remember when we purchased a mini van back in the kidlet days in the early 90's. I asked how the rear plugs were changed and was told it was remove the motor mount and drop the engine. That is not cheap!
Ray Chartrand
Although I only have 18,000 miles on the car, I wanted to check the condition of the plugs, and also hit them with a dab of anti-sieze, so they don't weld themselves in place. I would hate to try and remove a plug that's been in place for 100,000 mles in an aluminum cylinder head.
rgnmstr: Yep, heard that this past Sunday on Goss's Garage on WJFK. The caller wasnt calling about LS's specifically, but platinum plugs/and 100k intervals in general. Pat specifically said, go by the owners manual, and 100k is fine. He said UNLESS there is a noticeable driveability issue, or mpg issue, leave them alone. He went on for a bit about owners not needing to "waste" money by not abiding by the owners manual recommendations.
If my engine continues the way it has been running (smoothly) I plan to leave mine in until 100k, at which point I will drop it off to the dealer and have them replace them.
My mechanic highly recommended changing the plugs long before the 100K interval. I will probably change every 50K. (He knows that I would do it myself - so it isn't a $ issue for him.) He says it is cheaper and easier to throw out the old engine and put a new one in (which he has done several times, due to a plug seizing in the aluminum,) just as Leadfoot said.
Mirror - Ronniepooh - my autodim mirror has the same problem. There are a couple of posts on the Continental page that refer to this issue. I can't imagine that they are much different. I'm sure I will be able to have mine replaced under warranty. Since you are out - the folks on the Conti page mentioned sending their mirrors back to the manufacture for free replacement (Donnelly?)