Lincoln LS

ANT14

The LS will move into a less complex platform, a heavily modified version of the current one, which will allow it to shed some weight as well.

nvbanker

I'm not too nervous about the change, because as good as the LS is, and I agree, it's an awesome performer, I may be looking for a new Sedan in 2006, and I'd like a bit more room than the LS provides. But, if it's going to be lighter, I probably won't be getting what I want there. Remember folks, if Lincoln keeps making the LS just as it is for 3 more years, it will become obsolete. All car platforms must evolve to stay current and viable. How many years will we buy the exact same car?

scottc8

Please explain how a "heavily modified" version of a platform which has been in production for four years will be "less complex". And can you identify the source of your information?

ANT14

Similar senario as the new Mustang's platform (Platform Code: D2C), it's a heavily modified DEW98 (or nicknamed by some- DewLite) platform. What makes it less complex, and less sophisticated, is the use of less aluminum, and other weight saving parts. This doesn't necessarily mean it'll weigh more due to lesser use of aluminum parts, but with proper engineering techiques and assembly, (hydro-forming is one example) the structure itself can be made more robust over the complexity of the current one.

Source: I'll never say, but you can wait 3 1/2 years if in doubt. Obviously, depending on how things progress or degress, the above mentioned might be altered, but at this stage, the "foundation" has been pretty much set.

pat

Drop by the Real-World Trade-In Values discussion and ask there. Read a few messages so that you know what information you need to post in in your question. Good luck.

scottc8

Thanks for clarifying. I figured you were referring to the evolution of the DEW98 as it pertains to the future Mustang. If I sounded skeptical it's because the context of the discussion made me think you were talking about something that would happen very soon. Three more years (or so) of the LS in it's current form sounds right.

brooster54

Apparently I'm one of the six or seven people that chose Medium Cypress Green for their LS in '01, as that colour has been discontinued. I thought that that colour was a little different and quite classy. I do tend to stay away from the more common choices as I'm not a good "follower". Has anyone seen, or been brave enough to lease / purchase an '03, in Light Tundra? What do you think of the colour? Does it suit the car's styling and image? Reason I'm asking is that my present ride has to go back in 9 months. I'm thinking about turning it in early for an '03 or '04, and thus avoiding some of the overmileage charge I'm racking up. And yes, my dealer has been more than helpful getting me out early in the past. Probably has something to do with the three or four cars I get from him every year!

nvbanker

Hmmm...sounds like you have a dealer like mine (and are a customer like me

ANT14

If you read my posts in other forums, you will see it's insider information of future FoMoCo products which I can add to in these discussions boards.

carjim

It's a pleasure to have someone as informative as you on here, ANT14. You mention you are on other forums. I rarely wander far from here.
 
Would you share the other forums you frequent? My reason: a couple of my family members are keenly interested in the 2004 Mustang, and they look to me to pass on updates as I find them... Thanks.

ANT14

Well 2004 Mustang is what is current, the newly developed one will be a 2005 model. I believe if you look at someone's profile, it'll list the forums they have posted/are subscribed to.

jdadamsjr

Thanks...

pat

A profile lists the last five messages that person posted. You can only see your own subscription list, not anyone elses.

"PM" is not a feature that we have here. If you want someone to email you, make your address public in your profile. That way it is hidden from the "bots" which it won't be if you post it in a message.

karl18

OK, I will come clean; I am to lazy to scroll through all 12000+ messages currently posted for the info I want:

I am strongly considering a LS to be a garage mate with my 5 Series and am 48 hours away from pulling the trigger on a 2001 LS V8 with everything, 35k miles, Lincoln certified, etc. for $22K. Have a line on a similar 02 (Not certified)with 11k miles for asking price of $27K. I think I can work the 02 down to around 24.5K. Are these prices reasonable? Why is Consumer Reports down on this car?

Everything thing I have read from you owners seems to be positive. I challenge a couple of you to play car salesman for a few minutes.

slunar

Those prices sound about right especially the $24.5K for a 2002 V8 with 11K. Keep in mind that Lincoln certified really just ads an extended warranty. You (the purchaser) pay for that extended warranty one way or another whether it is Lincoln certified or you buy non-certified and separately purchase and ESP contract.

If you look at the last CR test of a 2003 LS V6 (I think May or June 2003 issue), they state that of the 5 cars they tested (LS, CTS, G35, Maxima, 9-5) that the LS was clearly the best of the bunch.

However, CR just does not want to say too much positive about an American car. I think the majority of CR's readers expect them to say the imports are the best, so they come up with a way to downgrade the American cars. A good example of this is they give the G35 an expected better than average relability. I don't know how they can do this as the G35 is brand new. With the CTS also a new model they just say that it is a new model and they can't predict reliability. To me this is a clear example of their bias towards the import brands.

Reminds me about when Boze took CR to court after CR gave a Boze audio system a very bad review. During the trial CR's defense degenerated into: "What to do want from us (CR)? We're in the business of selling magazines. We don't have any responsibility to be accurate or correct, just to print what our readers think they want to see, so they renew their subscriptions."

ANT14

Jdadmsjr, What kind of question is it?

scottc8

Shop around. I know of a couple people who have found dealers with leftover brand new '02 V8 Sports that will sell for $30k.

lobsenza

The changes between the 01 and 02 model year include:

* Change in the transmission 2nd and 5th gear ratios for more even gear spacing (excludes early 02s)
* Elimination of a droning sound at certain speeds.
* Subwoofer included in the Sport Alpine system.
* Redesign of subwoofer to increase trunk space.

sawmill

Anyone buying a 2001 LS should have the dealer check the service history -- including and especially the TSB's performed. It'll give you a good idea how careful the former owner was, and if all the known bugs have been identified and fixed already. While the drone is not common in all cars, things like the misting headlights or lossening license plate lights are fairly universal (like the pre-2000 transmission programming) that are readily repaired. If you buy a car off warranty, some of thoses predictible issues may end up costing you unecessarilly.

johnnylinc

Color (or colour in the GWN ) preference is, of course, highly subjective; however, I personally like Tundra on the LS. It's definitely out of the ordinary--not nearly as common as black, silver, or ivory (like mine). If you haven't seen it in the flesh, I'd describe it as a sort of dusty/smoky green-grey shade, if that makes any sense. It's a "medium" rather than a very dark or very light color; I think it sets off the LS lines quite nicely.

I'm familiar with your Cypress, and I like it, too. It's rather uncommon in Texas as well; I've only seen a few. Tundra is probably in that uncommon category, but that's certainly not a bad thing, IMO. Tundra is also available on the Limited Edition model of the '03 Town Car, and you can get it on the '03 Mazda Tribute, too. You might try checking your local Mazda store to see it in person if your Lincoln store doesn't have it on anything in stock.

Tundra isn't for everyone, but I certainly wouldn't mind having a new Tundra LS in my garage. Good luck with your decision.

lobsenza

There is a new tricoat white for 04. It really doesn't look white. Everyone who saw it liked it. We did not, however, get to see it in natural daylight only in the lights of the manufacturing plant. It took several minutes for the plant workers to figure out what color it was when the questi0on was asked.

mrgdr

brooster54, I have an '03 LS V8 Premium Sport in Light Tundra. I displayed the car at the Fabulous Fords Forever event in April and got loads of people stopping to ask about the color, all with favorable comments. I like the color very much. My last LS was Graphite Blue and I'd say the colors are very much in the same range as johnnylinc said, a medium tone. It's very metallic and does change color in different light. It's also very easy to keep clean.

slunar

Three more items to add to lobsenza's list:

The cam chains on the V8 were changed on the 2002's to eliminate a harmonic resonance noise that you could hear at cerain RPM's.

The intake air box was changed to give better air-flow. Although Lincoln did not change the V8 HP ratings, the 2002 V6 has higher HP and torque, which has some of us beliving that the 2002 V8 has higher HP than claimed. We belive that Lincoln did not change the 2002 V8 HP ratings so that the HP upgrade for 2003 would have a bigger impact.

The 2002 V6 exhuast was upgraded from 1-3/4" diameter pipes to 2", essentially the same exhaust as on the V8. The airbox and exhaust changes give the 2002 V6 10 more HP and 10 more lb. ft.

If I had found a '01 and an '02 LS, both in good condition and both models I wanted, I would absolutely buy the 2002 and pay extra for it because of the changes for 2002 and potentially the extra year of warranty.

One of the new for 2004 colors lobsenza is refering to is "Cashmere Tri-Coat" The workers at the plant called it Cashmere White, but in the LS ordering guide it is just called "Cashmere". I'd say that it is an off white with greyish and brownish tones in it, but can't really be sure of its hues until I see it in sunlight.

johnnylinc

Last Sunday I parked my '01 Ivory LS right next to an '04 in Cashmere--in bright afternoon sun--and they're very, very similar. The Cashmere to my eye had just a bit less yellow than the Ivory, and also had a bit more "sparkle", as if the metallic layer of the tricoat was denser than mine. It's a very nice color, but you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between it and Ivory if they weren't in close proximity to each other. This one had the Shale/Dove interior, which is a light grey; this combo didn't work at ALL well with the Cashmere, IMO. (I imagine the Dark Stone/Medium Light Stone will be much better with Cashmere, but I wish Lincoln would be a bit more imaginative with their interior colors.)

I also saw a Town Car in Light French Silk, which is the other new LS color for '04. It's very similar to the Light Parchment Gold that was available on the LS from '00 through '03. I liked it; should work well on the LS.

circlea

i was wondering if you are supposed to leave the advance trac on all of the time or just turn it on in bad weather conditions. i know when you start the car it automaticly comes on. should you turn it off or leave it on??

circlea

akirby

No reason to turn it off unless you're trying to do 4 wheel drifts. It's not just for bad weather - it also helps if you take a corner too fast or hit an oil slick, etc.

woodwanusa

I recently took my 2001 LS Sport for it's 30000 mile service to the dealer (something I find rarely worthwhile doing). I thought an automatic transmission service was part of the service, but it was not done. In checking online on this Edmund's site, it speccified only certain transmissions required changing of automatic transmission fluid at 30000 miles. Perhaps mine was not one of them. Can someone enlighten me about the service schedule for my automatic transmission? Thank you. WoodWanusa

nvbanker

Yours may be sealed for life. Some of the new ones are. If you don't find a dipstick, that's probably the deal.

#noname

you mean if you dont have a dipstick you dont need your transmission flushed??

circlea

#noname

My dealer told me it's sealed for life (2000 LS8). Didn't need any service. Funny thing is, I brought it to a local repair shop for maintenance and asked them to check the transmission (not knowing it's sealed). When I picked it up, they said they couldn't find the dipstick, so they somehow got the plug out, damaging it in the process. When I brought it to the dealer, that's when I found out it didn't need service. My bad.

akirby

The transmission is NOT "sealed" - it doesn't have a dipstick because there wasn't enough room in the V8 engine compartment to route one. The level is checked and it's filled just like a manual. Under "normal" conditions it doesn't have to be changed but the "severe" schedule calls for changing the fluid every 30K miles and that's what the former calibration supervisor for the tranny recommends for ALL LS. Cheap insurance - they change it out through the cooler lines. No need to drop the pan or change the filter.

All LS automatics are the same maintenance wise.

lateralg

"...changing the fluid every 30K miles and that's what the former calibration supervisor for the tranny recommends for ALL LS"

I think he amended that by saying to do it only if you're convinced of the sanitation of the dealer's equipment. Else they could introduce contamination that shortens the transmission's life.

leadfoot4

...at 25,000 miles. The car now shifts far more crisply than it ever did. Don't forget, the "former calibration supervisor" said that the LS's transmission is very sensitive to proper fluid level.

packv12

I'm waiting to hear if the "Quality" Extended Warranty will honor the TSB regarding the rear window regulators. No response as to if the TSB's will be followed after warranty expires!

Spare tire wheel is a master of chemistry, it's always full of water. Either that, or I'm a master at splitting atoms! It's unknown if rain storms add to the problem, but the darned thing will float a battery without the car being on the road. I'm tired of draining and drying the trunk well! I plan on hosting a Pee Wee "Pee Wee" hockey team this year once the well freezes.

The tranny has just about bought it, this with the 30,000 mile flush procedure. It finds Neutral at the strangest times, but with much fiddling, I can find a gear.

Would I own another 2000 LS? You bet you Aunt Fanny's Postiriour. It's been a great car with some minor headaches, but they've been minor compared to the joy of ownership. After the 4 years of ownership, it's still a great "Q-Ship".

I purchased my car with the long range in mind. I don't think that BMW 540 or 750 Series would have served me as well. I am totally satisfied with my decision, hairy warts and all!

nvbanker

nice testimonial, packy. I understand what you mean.

congarobert

Well 60000 miles and needing a transmission is not a good sign at all. I have a oo v8 sport and 60 grand and I hope to get the bugs out soon. But I hope the transmission failure is not typical of all 2000,s LS,s. I hope the spark plugs they claim last for 100,000 miles isn't the only component of the car that last that long.

lateralg

A club member has 116,000 rough miles on his 2000 LS & no transmission durability problems. Another has been running NOX without tranny problems.

Perfect? Nope.
In the same group as the best? Yep.

cdnpinhead

bought the LS mainly because it offered a manual transmission, along with the handling that we all enjoy.

My comments regarding the concept that having a manual would eliminate the need for many fixes or complaints (among other things) got me kicked off a board that continues to think that 100 - 150 enthusiasts will define a vehicle that has moved 125K+ units. They may be right, but the fact remains that the manual isn't part of the future plan. Neither is much more power. Oh well.

Point being: automatic transmissions are complex devices now being controlled by software (or is it the hardware) that is questionable at times. If you need to know exactly when the shift will take place, a manual transmission is a real help. Besides which, it appears several dealers are clueless regarding servicing the automatic.

Got a manual? Replace the clutch from time to time. It's something of a test: if you know how to drive, you'll need a clutch between 75K and 150K. If you don't, it'll be sooner. If you're really good, it'll be later. Either way, it'll be way, way cheaper than dealing with an automatic transmission fix.

That's why I drive an LS -- it offered a manual when I wanted one. Why I'll never drive another one is that they no longer offer the manual.

Those of you with automatic transmission "issues" may want to consider a different car. If my LS holds up well for the next 3 - 4 years, I'll continue to drive it. Otherwise, I'll be looking elsewhere. Lincoln has told me to not let the door hit me on the way out.

I'll be quick.

mrgdr

IIRC, the current LS transmission team at Livonia refer to the unit as "filled for life". They made no recommendation to flush the trans unless there has been extreme wear and tear or you've experienced slipping. Even then, it shouldn't be necessary until at least 60,000 miles. Unless you feel highly compelled, don't flush. Bear in mind that this trans is a highly sophisticated unit and introducing contaminants into the system through excessive or improper flushing may actually be counter productive.

lobsenza

I asked the engineers a few more questions regarding the service. The answer I got was that it it was their car, they would change the fluid around 40,000 miles. But, it is certainly not necessary. This is similiar to Mark's recommendation.

woodranch1

Hi LS Owners:

I am getting ready to trade my 98 Auroura and am considering the LS. Alway thought it looked great. Can get into a BMW 525i for a similar price. Ant thoughts? Thanks

lateralg

What year 525i for a similar price?

lobsenza

Will be much faster, more reliable, more fun to drive and get excellent factory support. It will probably cost less too (unless you get one maxed out).

rg03v8s

I've absolutely no regrets going with the LS.

- The 525i is WAAY less capable dynamically
- The 525i body style is about to be replaced. Yes the new style is yucky but do you want to drive something that is instantly "old"?
- The LS has quite a bit more goodies. 6 disk changer. Heated & cooled seats.
- The LS is larger but doesn't "feel" larger driving.
- Oh, did I say that the 525i is WAAY less capable dynamically?

acenj

OK,

Took my 2001 white V8 Sport to a local LM dealer.
I was in there a good 7/8 minutes, no one else in there (customers that is), nobody comes up and askes if I needed any help. Go outside, check out some 03's (man, i like the Navi!!!), come back in, finally, after a couple of minutes, a guy asks if I need help. I ask how much for the 03 Demo they have, he says he'll go talk to the mgr to let me know what they are asking. Long story short (as if thats possible now), he comes back, the mgr won't give the guy numbers w/o me filling out paperwork and privacy/disclosure paperwork. UNREAL. I sometimes feel like they think we're in their to waste THEIR time.

Sorry guys - just had to vent!!!

acenj

Guys,

As you can see from the above post, I'm thinking of trading up to an 03. Can someone with good knowledge of both cars tell me if they think the extra horses are worth the $$$$$????

Is their anything that can be done to the 01 LS to pump up the HP???

thx

AceNJ

lobsenza

There are many changes for the 03s (over 500, I believe). The biggest are:
* More power
* Heated/cooled Seats
* Steering improvement
* THX/Navigation system

slunar

as lobsenza mentioned there are over 500 changes in the 2003 LS. Some of the other key ones are:

Variable valve timing - better gas mileage and wider power band.
entry key pad on driver's door
Better air intake system
Larger dia. improved shocks - ride is better over bumpy roads.
Adjustable pedals
Console storage compartment is much larger and has a power outlet in it.
Electric Parking brake - gets rid of the big parking brake lever allowing the console to be larger
Cup holders are improved
Interior materials look and feel higher quality
SST starts in 1st gear
Rear end on V8 now 3.58 vs. 3.31
Premium & option for Sport has real interior wood instead of fake wood.
Heated rear seats optional
rear parking assist optional
Side air curtain bags optional
Engine fan is electric not hydraulic - gives more HP & more relable.
Power steering pump is improved less HP drain and quieter.
HID headlamps optional - std on V8 premium Sport
Transmission now has synchronous shifts - give faster gear shifting
Electronic throttle control - compensates for altitude, temperature, humidity, etc. so you engine doesn't feel sluggish on really hot humid days or at high altitude.
New cam chains - gets rid of whining noise (2002)
2nd gear transmission ratio is better spaced inbetween 1st and 3rd. (2002)

As far as souping up your 2001 here are some things you can do.
1. replace the engine air intake box with the improved 2002 part $144 about 5 HP.
2. Cat back exhaust, magnaflow, borla up to 10 HP $400 - $600 depending on which one.
3. Improved cold air intake system 5+ HP available from a Lincoln owners club. about $200 I think.
4. Use highest octane gas you can find, the LS has an engine knock sensor and it will automatically advance the timing as far as it can.

Sorry to hear about your inattentive dealer. I think the weak link in Lincoln cars is the dealers. There are 7 dealers within an hour of me 2 are great, 2 are good and the final 3 I wouldn't buy a tri-cycle from with a couple of them real sleazy.

scottc8

Listing the improvements doesn't do the car justice. The HP increase is very nice but is only part of the package. It's a better car in every way. Given a choice between a great deal on a leftover '02 V8, like $30k, or paying $10k more for an '03, I'd go for the '03. If that $10k was a deal breaker, I'd go for the '03 V6. What they've done with the throttle response on the V6 has to be driven to be believed.

And, believe me, with 83k miles and two years left to pay on my '00, this is hard to say.

beaconcar93

This message is in reference to hairong's July 29, 2003 message...You stated that you recently purchased a base Lincoln LS for under $24K. What car dearlership/location did you purchase it at? I'd like to look into a similar purchase. Thanks!