Lincoln LS

sawmill

Be sure to read the Edmunds LS test reports -- they very accurately reflect the problems that most owners have experienced. (Nothing smooths out the transmission in the 00-01 models -- except the new design in the 03 LS. But a jumpy transmission is not all that objectionable -- like the mystery beeps, it adds character, and no car is perfect). Best research you can do is check out the attitude of the dealer service you intend to use -- that is the key, I believe, to dealing with the quality problems).

nvbanker

That is SO true - it's all about the driving with this car.....

oldsman01

I did read the Edmund's long term review and did have a few concerns, however, their's was an early build model. Speaking of, is there any way to read a VIN and determine if the car is an "early run" or one that was produced later? Ideally, I would prefer a 2001, but would consider a 2000 if it was a latter built unit and had low mileage. Also, what is the deal with carfax? I get their pop-ups all over the internet and some car dealers even advertise as "carfax certified."

nvbanker

I'd get the 01 if possible, oldsman. You're just gonna run a better chance of skipping the first year issues.

Carfax can give you the history of where a used car has been since birth. How many owners, also certify any evidence or lack thereof of odometer rollback, salvage title, and about 8 other potential pitfalls of a used car. I recommend them highly.

oldsman01

One more question to LS owners, what changes were made between 00 and 01? I have the full sales brochure for 2000(got it at an auto show back when they came out) and I've noticed that newer LSs(01s or 02s) now have wood trim on the steering wheel and a standard in-dash 6 disc changer.

scottc8

Not much changed. The cupholder design on the console. The availability of 17" chrome wheels on the Sport package models. And there's a V8 badge on the RH tail light on cars so equipped.

The wood steering wheel is what they used on non-Sport models. A car with a leather covered wheel has the Sport package.

You can tell when a car was built by opening the driver's door and looking at the sticker on the side of the cowl. Another way to spot an early '00 is the full size rear seat headrests.
  
Don't worry too much about Edmunds' long term test. They complained constantly about the transmission while, at the same time, on this very board, a Lincoln transmission engineer was telling us about the software upgrade. sawmill's comments on the roughness of the shifting do not match my own experience, 84k miles on a '00 V8 Sport. The 5 spd auto is a 2 spd gearbox mated to a 3 spd unit. The 2-3 and 3-2 shifts require both gearboxes to shift, so they're not as smooth as we might like. Other than that, if the car doesn't shift smoothly there's something wrong with it.

If you find a car you like, take the VIN to a Lincoln dealer and ask them to run an OASIS search on it. It will tell you what warranty work has been performed on the car, and give you a pretty good idea of it's history.

oldsman01

Thanks for the tip on the OASIS search. I did find an 01 LS V8 on a local dealer's website(and also saw it in their newspaper ad) that I'm going to go check out later today if the rain will hold off. It has 32K and the website has pictures of it and it does not have the sport package(it has the wood trimmed wheel and the non-sport wheels) but does have heated seats(can see the buttons on the console). The dealer website lists the VIN so I signed up and ran a carfax report and everything came back okay. Carfax listed it as a one owner being a "corporate fleet" car registered in April 2001 out of Troy MI. The price the dealer is asking is not too far out of the ball park of what these vehicles typically run, but if I like the car I plan to offer them less. I did notice that used car prices on Edmund's site(TMV and certified pre-owned) were lower than what both kbb.com and carsdirect list for the same car. Kbb's dealer retail was about what the dealer is currently listing the car for and carsdirect retail price was about 2K lower. Edmund's TMV was yet another 2K lower so I'm thinking probably somewhere between the Edmund's price and the carsdirect price(which seems like a reasonable value for this car) would be a good place to start the offer. That of coarse is if I like the car after driving it.

slunar

In addition to what scott8 just posted:

There were a number of updates put on the '00 LS starting in March 00.

The 01 cars are mechanicaly similar to the late '00's (built March '00 & later).

There were a number of updates put on the '02 LS's like revised transmission ratios for 2nd & 5th, new quieter cam chains in the engine, new intake air box, revised V6 exhaust. To me a 2002 is preferred, but prices on them seem significantly higher than the '01's right now.

As far as the transmission goes, I had no problems with the transmission in my Jan 00 build '00 LS V8. The 2-3 shift although always acceptable to me was improved by getting a PCM reflash (updated computer code). An Oasis report will tell you what revision PCM code is on the car. June 01 revision is the latest rev. for 00 & 01 LS's.

sawmill

I corresponded with Mark, the tranny engineer, on this board, and did the "accelerated training" he suggested for the transmission, which helped quite a bit. I also had the reflash, which also improved the transmission. Its fine, acceptable. But now that I can compare it to an '03 LS that my wife has -- there is no question the '00 tranny is rough, free-wheels sometimes, and the '03 has fixed this problem. The Edmunds review has confirmed this continuing problem in the earlier models, after they had the entire transmission replaced.

In my mind, that is not a reason to not buy the car, but don't be blind to it either. The transmission is not supposed to be opened by the dealer mechanics -- so you get what is on the car, to the best the software can correct problems. But as Mark told us, there are mechanical limitations as to how fast and smooth this particular transmission can shift. It took them many months to design the reflash to try to get some of the shift artifacts out that the reviewers and car buffs objected to.

If you have a cooperative dealer, he will tell you what optional replacements have been made -- i.e. the rear window actuators, the headlight units that fog, the rear license plate lights that crack and loosen -- these are design and material defects that are likely to fail in the future if they haven't been replaced by new-engineered parts already. The anecdotes that a specific owner had no problem with the rear window doesn't fix the problem that a plastic guide will not stand up to multiple operations, and will someday crack, causing a spaghetti mess of cable inside the rear door.

Also, listen carefully to the car at constant freeway speeds -- some, but not all cars, had an axel and drive-shaft harmonics problem -- mine did not, but many did -- there are weights on the drive shaft, like tire balancing weights, that the factory installs to fix this, and the factory replaced the rear wheel axels with tapered ones on all new LS's after a while as a production fix.

If the dash top looks dry and dusty, it is easy to correct, so don't worry about that.

But most importantly, check that the oil changes were performed, and if possible, a review of the maintenance history shows how observant and careful the former driver was.

scottc8

but the fact that YOUR '00 transmission "is rough,(and)free-wheels sometimes" doesn't make it typical.

Your point about highway noise or vibration is a good one. oldsman or anyone test driving an older LS should run it up to 65-75 for a little while to check for this. Not a real common problem, but often very difficult to diagnose. Sometimes cured by different tires, balancing, or the driveshaft weights mentioned above. I know of two cases where the vibration was eliminated by using bolts of slightly different weights on the flange where the driveshaft mates to the rear end. Anyway, finding a dealership willing to follow through with a problem like this can be difficult. It might be wise to steer clear of a car with this problem. Just don't mistake tire noise for a more serious problem. The LS tends to transmit more road noise to the cabin than most luxury cars. The price we pay for performance. And the Firestone Firehawks used on the earlier cars get very noisy when they're about half worn out.

oldsman01

Found a potential match at a Ford dealer across town. 01 LS V8 with pretty much everything(sport suspension package, 17" wheels, sunroof, Alpine audio system, heated seats, and stability control system) with only 25K on the clock. Build date was 08/00 so it must be an early 2001, but from what I've read, the updates were made during the Y2K model year run. Anyway, test drove the car and liked it ALOT! The salesman let me drive it alone and when I got on the freeway, I opened her up. The smooth surge of power reminded me of the Northstar V8 in a Cadillac SLS I had as a rental last year. I didn't try the select-shift transmission as I was too busy watching for cops and trying to listen for strange noises. Highway ride at 70 MPH was very quiet and the engine was well muted, but made a nice growl under hard acceleration. Pretty much everything about the car impressed me, particularly the nice blend of smooth ride and sharp handling. The brakes did seem to require more effort than I am used to with my Intrigue, but several LS reviews seem to reflect this as well so I guess it is the nature of the beast. As for the transmission, it seemed to shift very smoothly and I didn't notice any harshness. So yes, I liked the LS. I didn't sit down to talk any numbers today, but I may go talk with them tomorrow. Asking price for the car was $24,999 and according to kbb.com, this is about par for dealer retail on an 01 with 25K equipped as this one is. However, Edmund's TMV price for said car is alot less. Physically, the car was in good shape and the interior was clean with no signs of being smoked in, but there were a few chips in the paint on the hood. And in the bright sunlight, I noticed some swirl marks in the paint. So I would place this car's physical condition somewhere between excellent and clean(or good). I'm thinking a low ball offer of $20,999 or so and willing to go up a grand or $1500. What do you guys think of that kind of offer?

acenj

Oldsman,

25000 is very high IMO.
21-22 is probably in the right ball park.
email me at acenj1@aol.com - I'll give you
the dealers name where I bought my used 01
from last year (for around 25!).

Aceman
acenj1@aol.com

slunar

Oldsman, you're on the right track, that is offer the dealer $21K for the car, all he can say is NO. There was a story on CNBC about the low used prices and high depreciation of Luxury Cars. Their advice was to start out offering a dealer $5K less than their asking price and said that most of the times the dealer will sell for $3-$4K less than their asking price. When you negotiate, remind the dealer how it cost them money to keep that car on their lot. Tell them "With the '04's coming out in a few weeks, that old 2001 could end up sitting on their lot for another 6 months and sell for even less."

Also, to go web sites like Autotrader or cars.com and look at their listings for used LS's. I took a quick look and found 2 - 2001's that look similar to the LS you're looking at. The first has 42K miles and the asking price is $19,800 from a Lincoln dealer it is not certified. The 2nd has 19K miles and the asking price is $24K, also from a Lincoln dealer. So with 25K on the clock $21,500 sounds about right. Also find out when the car was originally sold so you know hown many years are left on the warranty (4 years 50K). If the car was sold late in 2001 and you have 2 years left on the warranty, I'd pay an extra $1K for the car over one that was sold at the end of 2000 and would have only about 12 - 14 months left on its warranty.

Scott8 - I don't think that the LS transmits road noise a lot. What I think you're noticing is that the LS is so quiet in other aspects, that is the wind noise is so quiet, engine noise and other drive line noise is so quiet that the road noise is the most prominent noise you hear. Of course the tires have a lot to do iwth it. I found the original Firestones on my '00 acceptable in the road noise department. I then had a set of Goodyears that were so horrible I got rid of them long before they were worn out. I replaced them with Michelin Pilots were were wonderful and had VERY low road noise for a performance tire. IMHO its very important to get the right tires for you on your LS.

desertguy

If you really want an eyeopener, forget autotrader or cars.com and go to ebaymotors.com.
They currently show 31 LSs and some of the prices are unbelievable.(sickening as a matter of fact) Some are by Lincoln dealers. The biggest drawback I see is the cars are located all over the place. Still, for the right car, I would travel. Interesting story by the editor of Autoweek about buying a used BMW on ebay in the past two weeks.

jond

I recently inherited an ownership interest in a Ford dealership. A friend of mine told me that since I was a part owner, that I qualify to purchase vehicles on one of Fords plans. Does anyone know if this is correct? If so, what is the process and what plan would I fall under? Thanks for your help.

lsjim

claying it. Oh my gosh, in all my years of waxing my cars, the result has never been so dramatic as it was after taking the bar to it. Thanks for the tips earlier on this topic. I'll never be skeptical again. (--8 well, not on this board at least.

heyjewel

slunar:
I'm about ready to replace my firehawks (at about 35000 miles). I'm leaning heavily toward the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 tires. I hope these are not the ones you say were so horrible? These get top notch reviews, see below:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tir- eModel=Eagle+F1+GS-D3&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=445YR7F- 1GSD3&fromCompare1=yes

desertguy:
Prices on ebay are not final til they're final, n'est pas? Only if there is a "buy Now" price can u say anything about the relative prices there. I looked at a few and did see one buy now bargain:
a rare 5 speed LS 2000 w/36K on it for under $16K

oldsman1:
One correction: re the "droning" noise - this noise if it is present will occur between 50 and 60 mph, not 65-75. I think the exact number is 58mph. It only affected a few AT 2000 models IIRC.

desertguy

Yes, I'm ebay savvy enough to know the bid price isn't final. I was referring to the "buy it nows." All 2000 models:

V8 with 41k...$17,000
V8 with 36k...$16,900
V8 with 51k...$16,600
V6 with 35k...$15,500 5spd manual not the one you were talking about. I just thought these were good prices. The 5spd you mentioned with 35K on the clock is right here in the town I'm in. He calls the color midwest black. Off lease car. I should do a carfax and take a look. Thanks for mentioning it.

slunar

I don't remember the exact model Goodyears but they were Eagle GT4 somethings (mud & snow rated).

I know some of the Goodyear F1 tires are pretty well received. Over the years I've been partial to Goodyears, but those Eagle GT4's (or whatever they were) were absolutely complete garbage. The worst tires I have ever had since the days of bias belted polyglass wide ovals!!!! Lots of road noise, did not want to go straight, that is my LS wanted to wander all over the road. It was down right scary to be going down an interstate at 65 MPH and take my hands off the wheel. They also had a horrible turn in feel. Turn the wheel and get a surprise as to what happens! And finally, they made my LS almost undrivable in any amount of snow. They were SO BAD I took them off after only 8,500 miles!

When I put the Michelins on it was like I had bought a new car.

slunar

As you stated desertguy, those are prices for 2000 LS's. 2001's should go for up to $5K more.

buckwheat

If the dealership is Blue Oval Certified and you are an employee you are eligible to purchase or lease one new Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicle per calendar year under the "D" plan which uses the same pricing as the "A" plan, which is what Ford Motor Company employees pay to purchase or lease a new vehicle.

scottc8

Sounds like a nice car and I'm glad to hear how you enjoyed it. But I hope the dealer is prepared to bargain. Dealers who still have leftover '02s are selling brand new V8s, nicely optioned, for as little as $30k.

FWIW, my initial reaction to the brakes was identical to yours. Not the super-soft power brakes we've become used to. I got to like it very quickly.

slunar, my noise comment was based on comparisons to pure luxury cars. If absolute quiet is a high priority for someone, and handling is not, the LS may not be the best choice. The Toyota Avalon comes to mind as car designed with quiet first, handling second. Personally, I agree with you 100%, but some early magazine reviews that were treating the LS as strictly a luxury car made the comment about road noise.

George, I think 51 mph was the typical drone speed.

lateralg

If we're talking the rear axle shaft drone, then the "speed" is 1800-2100 RPM in 4-th or 5-th, with the converter locked up.

A good test is to operate at that RPM, light-to-medium throttle. If the moan occurs, tap the brake to see if it stops. (Tapping the brake unlocks the converter)

I believe there was a fix involving different axle shafts ... but not sure about that.

scottc8

You are correct, sir. The fix was larger diameter sub axles. Cars built after Feb, 2000 have the newer axles.

crazybabydoc

There's at least two very nice '00 LS on eBay that will definitely sell for well less than 20K. I've contacted two Lincoln dealers about previous LSEs. Both were 2002 models, one was new (silver) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1- - &category=31850&item=2429353339 and according to the dealer was the last one of their allotment which arrived just before the 2003 . . . Terry didn't have a firm number for it but the dealer wanted the low 30s. The other 2002 LSE http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1- - - &category=31850&item=2429188288 Terry gave a price of high 24 to low 25K.

oldsman01

I hope they are willing to deal as well(they should be if they want to sell some cars) as I really like the car, but I am not going to take a bath when it comes to the price. There are too many of them on the market and my guess is with many 01s coming off leases now and in the next few months, there will be plenty available. Still, I would like to go ahead and get the car so I can be enjoying it. I stopped by the dealer this evening after they were closed to take another look(and get the VIN) and will stand by my impression that the finish is in good, not excellent condition. It looks like it has never had a coat of wax. I figure an afternoon with a clay bar and two coats of Zaino and she'll look like new. I also checked the tires and they still had a decent amount of tread left. When I got home I ran a carfax report on the car and everything came back okay. They estimated one owner and just like the other LS I had run the report on, it said it was a lease vehicle and was registered as a "corporate fleet" out of Ohio. Date vehicle was first registered was 4/10/01 with 82 miles reported. My guess is this car probably came from auction which the dealer probably paid absolute bottom value for so I don't want to hear the "I won't make any money at that price" comeback. So hopefully tomorrow or the next day I'll get back by there and do one more test drive then give them my offer.

acenj

Hope you get the wheelz!!! Guys, another good gauge of good retail pricing is carmax.com. They usually have quite a few LS's as well.

Ace

desertguy

Just got my new issue of Automobile today and they seem to confirm the rumor of the demise of the Aviator. "In 2005 Aviator will join the Blackwood in the automotive graveyard because of slow sales, according to suppliers and Ford and UAW insiders interviewed by the Detroit Free Press and Automotive news. The Aviator was launched last November."

Last November!!! I guess that is as long as the Blackwood lasted. I know you guys that were in Detroit for the Manias are probably impressed with Lincoln (as I was at the Mania in Irvine) but it is very hard to believe that they know what they are doing both in forecasting what people want and in marketing what they have. I hope when I get ready to buy my next LS that it is available and still the great car I remember. IMHO, canceling the continental was a mistake too.

slunar

One of the Ford execs recently issued a statement that the media reports about the Aviator going away were NOT true.

It is possible that some of the things about vehicles going away are being used as bargaining chips with the UAW.

Aviator sales are actually increasing with current sales about 3,000 / month.

nvbanker

From what I've heard, the Aviator "plant" is going away, and the car will be likely moved to another factory somewhere, and potentially be redesigned to another platform. But I'm told the rumors of the demise of the Aviator are way premature.

The Blackwood would have done much better, IMO, had they got the damn thing out earlier and filled the standing orders they had for it. My dealer had orders for 50 of them, but by the time the truck hit the dirt, people had bought something else, and of course, not having a 4WD version hurt the truck a lot too.

ANT14

We've addressed this issue many posts ago about the demise, as restated by Nvbanker, the news was pre-mature, AND the information the media has gathered is collected on basis of cause and effect. Ford has stated in a public press meeting, it was NOT going away. And I have "HINTED" what will happen with the vehicle.

All these automotive magazines, half only 50% of the news, correct 50% of the time, and in NO WAY should be taken seriously. I could list ALL the current mistakes (on predictions) they have made on future vehicles, but there's not enough typing space for it, nor would I bother with the time.

sawmill

With risk of being accused as a LS sour-pus (I'm not really - I like the car enough to have two in the family garage)--

The freewheeling exists on all the automatic transmissions until they were re-designed (in 2003 I think). This is not like the axle/drive shaft drone, that only occurs on some models.

We discussed the transmission limitations extensively with Mark, the Ford transmission design engineer -- one of the contributors to this board even wired up his transmission to a mini-computer and reported the shift points and times on his production vehicle at home -- which matched the factory design specifications!

If you never use the select-shift, or shift the transmission in a manual mode - then you probably will never notice these limitations (except maybe a small delay in shifting from reverse to drive.)The select shift transmissions and the non-select shift ones are identical, even the software is the same. Here is how you can feel the limits on your own LS (first explained in Edmund's review).

When exiting from a freeway/highway, downshift from 5th to 4th. There is very little time lag. Then, when you reach about 40 mph, downshift to 3rd. There is a bit of a free-wheeling delay -- this used to be much worse -- but the reflash really made a big difference. The transmission has to makle two distinct moves when shifting from 4th to 3rd. Then, downshift to 2nd. You will experience a substantial freewheeling delay. Don't use you brake.

If the transmission "bucks" it is not yet trained to make the shifts smoothly. It takes 5 repeats of the downshift at that same speed, when the transmission is fully warmed up, for the computer to optimize the shifts. Once learned, you will never have a buck at that speed again. The learning makes incremental changes over the life of your transmissionto compensate for wear -- it is always adjusting speeds to match a pre-determined shift speed and smoothness chart that is part of the fixed programming.

As Mark explained, the shear mechanical physics of moving those gears makes faster shifts on this design impossible. That is true for every car built, every LS, until the gears themselves were changed.

If you never use manual shifting on your automatic transmission, you will probably never notice it's lack of precision. However, the auto transmission on the 2003 is noticeably smoother in those maneuvers -- maybe because it has different shift points, maybe because of mechanical design changes. I don't know -- but it is definitely a better transmission.

oldsman01

Thanks to those who gave me some tips on what to look for when shopping for a used LS. I can now report that I am the owner of a 2001 LS V8. The car is pretty much loaded with everything as it has the sport suspension package(17" wheels and whatever else it included), select-shift transmission, sunroof, heated seats, and Alpine audio system. Only had 25K and was put in service in April 2001 so still a good amount of warranty left. So far, I haven't noticed any problems with the car other than the finish needing a good coat of wax. I spent some time with the owners manual last night and was wondering about maintenance. The little booklet on maintenance seems to be for all Ford models so a few things weren't clear. I take it the LS needs an oil change every 5K. That seemed pretty consistant on all Ford models. What about transmission fluid and engine coolant change intervals? Also, I noticed when reading about the transmission that it "adapts" over time depending on driving conditions and the manual stated that if the battery is disconnected that the transmission would have to relearn your driving habits. My question is, should I disconnect the battery and let the transmission relearn my driving habits as it's most recent drives have probably been test drives by different people.

As for the deal, I got mine for 22.9K. Dealer had the car listed at 26.9 and said that the 23.9 they had in their ad was pretty much what they had in the car. I knew that was BS from the beginning. I let them appraise my car and was surprised that they were going to give me a reasonable amount on trade in. In fact, their trade-in offer was nearly $1000 more than what another Ford dealer had offered me a couple of weeks ago(which was basically blue book trade-in value) when I was looking at Explorers. And the car had just been detailed and was super clean then. By now, it was somewhat dirty as I hadn't had a chance to clean it up. So with the reasonable trade amount, I told him if he would go down another $1000 on the LS, I'd do it. This was met with the "I'll have to check with my manager" and then I waited a good 10 minutes or so before he returned and said that was fine. So I'm wondering if I should have tried for more, but I'm pretty satisfied with the deal.

One other question, does anyone know how to program a second remote for the car? The car only had 1 remote and I mentioned this to my salesman and he grabbed one from a Town Car sitting next to it and said to just bring it by sometime and the service department could program it. If it is something that I can do, I'd rather just do it myself.

johnnylinc

Congratulations on your purchase--you've acquired a really outstanding car that should give you years of driving pleasure! Sounds like you got a good deal to me--your car would've listed for somewhere in the $40k-$41k range.

Here are answers to some of your questions:

Unfortunately, you can't program the remotes yourself; it has to be done by the dealer using special equipment. Be sure you take both remotes in, because both will need to be reprogrammed. This is a safety feature to prevent theft; if anyone could program remotes, the car would be much easier to steal.

While it is true that the transmission has an adaptive strategy, it doesn't learn your driving habits--it adapts to the internal fluid pressures and workings of that specific unit. We in the LS club got this info from one of the tranny engineers. Once it's learned, it's learned; disconnecting the battery at this point will reset it to the standard parms and it'll go through the learning process again. Driving habits affect the learning process only to the extent that it may take more time to complete the process depending on how the car is driven, but a hundred miles or so should do it. That's what the owner's manual statement means.

You're correct about the LS being on the 5k oil change cycle. Are you aware that the '01 through '03 model years have maintenance included for the first 3 years/36,000 miles? This means that any scheduled service you need for the next 11k miles and/or until next April 1 is already paid for. The only catch is that you must have the service done at a Lincoln shop; if you have it done at a Ford shop, you have to pay for it yourself. Your dealer should be able to pull an Oasis report & tell you what maintenance & repair work has been done recently; this should be available for at least the last year.

There are varied opinions on changing transmission fluid--the opinions vary even among Lincoln engineers. One says that he considers all driving to be heavy-duty service and recommends changing the fluid at 30,000 miles. Another says that the tranny is considered to be a "lifetime" unit and shouldn't need attention for 150,000 miles. (There's no trans dipstick, in case you haven't noticed.) The change procedure is very specific and needs to be done by a knowledgable tech in a clean environment--some of our engineer friends think that there's more danger of introducing contaminants & thus feel it's better to leave it alone. I have an '01 V8 Sport like yours, and I had mine done at 30,000 miles, but then I still have my oil & filter done every 3k. (5W30 oil is recommended; the '01 V8 is NOT supposed to use 5W20, even though most other late-model Fords have converted. 5W20 is okay in the '02 and later V8s.)

The LS does NOT use "lifetime" coolant--I think that stuff is junk, personally--so I think it's a good idea to have a flush and fill done periodically. I just did mine at the 3-year mark. (I have 33,000 miles now; took delivery in September '00.) Coolant deteriorates over time--a flush is cheap insurance for avoiding corrosion.

One more note: Your car has what's called the Alpine Sport stereo. This is unique to the '01 Sport in the U.S.; it unfortunately isn't the full-blown Alpine Audiophile system that's optional in the non-Sport. Due to weight considerations, you couldn't get the Audiophile in the '01 Sport, so you don't have the subwoofer system, nor do you have the 2-way door speakers. You DO, however, have the full DSP head unit used in the Audiophile. You can do a good, cheap upgrade by simply installing some high-quality 2-way or 3-way speakers in the doors to replace the cheapo factory jobs.

Just curious; what color combo did you get?

Any more questions? Fire away.

scottc8

on your new ride. Don't be concerned if your facial muscles feel funny for a few days. It's from driving around with a silly grin on your face. It doesn't go away, but your muscles build up.

oldsman01

Thanks for the info!! I washed my new baby and gave her two coats of Zaino today and WOW!!! What a sharp car. Heck, if the dealer would have done that, they probably could have sold the car for more. Mine is Autumn red with the medium parchment interior. I had some fun with the select-shift tranny tonight, yes I think this is going to be a car I will enjoy. Nothing like the power of a good ole V8. I peered under the car while cleaning it today and it appears as if it has a true dual exhaust system. Funny you mentioned the Alpine audio system in the sport as I was about to ask if it has a sub and if there are supposed to be speakers in the rear deck(mine doesn't have any there). The system sounds pretty good and at low amd moderate volume levels it sounds better than the Bose system in my Intrigue did. Only when I cranked some hair bands(yes, I grew up in the 80s) did I notice that the Bose seemed to have better clarity at high volume levels. Still, it is a very good sounding system and the in-dash 6 disc changer is very cool.

Thus far I've only noticed one quirk; I am using the autolamp feature and anytime I start the car(even in broad daylight) the headlights come on. If it is daytime, they go off in about 10 seconds. Is this normal? On other cars that I have had with automatic lights, the lights wouldn't even come on if it were daylight. Other than that and an occasional rattle from the rear part of the headliner when going over large bumps, everything seems to be working properly. I figure I will look for anything that may be wrong and then pay a visit to the Lincoln dealer to have them look at it. Should I be able to ask them to pull an Oasis report on this car? I'd be curious to see it's history and know whats been done. I did notice that the manual stated that Linoln covers the scheduled maintenance for the 3 years or 36K. My Intrigue said that you didn't need to have the oil changed until the "change oil" indicator came on or 7500 miles whichever came first, but I stuck with 3000 miles on oil changes. Do you think it will be okay to go 5000 on the Linoln? I plan on keeping this car a while and while I don't abuse my cars, I do tend to drive them as they were intended to be driven. That is, this Lincoln won't be doddering along like that Town Car you just passed in the left lane:) Anyway, thanks for the advice and let me know of anything that might enhance my ownership experience.

slunar

Congrats on you "new" LS oldsman01. Time to change your handle!

Yes, the LS has a true dual exhaust system with 2 cats, 2 resonators and 2 mufflers. There are aftermarket exhuast systems from Magnaflow, Borla and I think one other company. They will give you about 10 more HP and a bit more noise too.

5,000 mile oil change intervals are very adequate for most drivers. The only situation I can think of that would require more frequent oil changes is if you make lots of short trips (< 10 miles ) during cold weather (below freezing).

At about 5,000 miles I developed a rattle in the headliner of my '00 LS. My dealer said they would look into it if I REALLY wanted them to but didn't want to because pulling the headliner down is a PIA. Fortunately a couple thousand miles later the rattle disappeared, never to be heard again, go figure.

My auto-headlamps would often come on for 10 seconds or so during the day when it was parked in the shade, in a garage etc., but I don't rememeber them coming on in bright sunlight.

If you dealer doesn't object I'd say go ahead and get an Oasis report. It will tell you if you car has the latest PCM code etc.

v8lincolnguy

This is my new handle, formerly known as Oldsman01.

johnnylinc

Color preference is subjective, of course, but I think the Autumn Red/Parchment combo is great on the LS; in fact, I went back and forth between that and Ivory before going with the Ivory, but I know I wouldn't have regretted the Autumn. Very classy color for that car.

Regarding the autolamps, mine never come on when starting the car in daylight. They always do in the garage, of course, but not when I start the car outside during the day. It's possible that the sensor is either dirty or malfunctioning. (I don't remember if it's on the top of the instrument panel or on back of the rearview mirror.) If it's working OK otherwise, I'd suspect a sensor that's either dirty or is being partially restricted. I can find out for sure where the sensor is--at any rate, your lamps shouldn't be coming on in broad daylight.

I'd agree with Slunar that 5k oil & filter changes should be fine as long as you're using a good quality oil. In case you haven't seen it, you have an oil change monitor as part of your status monitoring system. Press the "status" button under the center vents on the i.p. and you'll see the display. Ford's monitoring system isn't as sophisticated as the Mercedes system; I believe it's strictly on a mileage/time clock and doesn't do any sampling of the oil to determine change recommendations.

A good dealer will have no problem with showing you the Oasis report. Some will say they're not "allowed" to give it to you, but that's bunk; Ford has no such policy. Providing that info, especially on a car that the customer hasn't owned from new, is just good business, IMO. Not all dealers agree, however. You won't know until you ask.

Probably the most common problem with LSs built prior to January '02 is failure of the rear window regulators. The original mechanism has a plastic part that's prone to failure, and a fair number of people have required replacement of this mechanism. (The same supplier was also used by BMW and MB, and they've experienced failures, too.) The replacement unit has been upgraded so that the failure-prone part is now metal. FWIW, I still have the originals and mine are working fine. The more you use them, the less likely they are to fail, and failures are more common in hot climates. The service bulletin calls for BOTH assemblies to be replaced if one fails.

Another fairly common problem is leaky headlamp assemblies, particularly the passenger side. These aren't sealed units, so condensation that disappears after turning the lamps on for a few minutes is OK; if moisture is present for a day or more and/or is persistent, your dealer should replace the unit under warranty. Mine haven't required replacement.

The Sport package, incidentally, includes the 17' wheels with V-rated tires, the SST shifter, softer brake pads, different (Sport) suspension settings, and an oil cooler. (I think that's about everything, except for the unique-to-'01 Sport sound system.)

Again, congrats on your new ride!

johnnylinc

That should say 17" wheels, not 17' wheels. Seventeen feet is even a little too "bling" for Escalades. Wouldn't surprise me if someone eventually tried it, though...

lobsenza

I just installed the Magnaflow exhaust system on my 02 V8 today. Got more power, more sound and better gas mileage. Gas mileage went from 24.4 to 25.2 on the same 180 mile highway trip.

eweygrin

I am on my second LS and am experiencing a problem on my 02LS8 that my 00 LS8 did not experience. I only have 3,000 miles on my 02. Recently I have noticed that on several occasions, if I start my car after it has been parked for about an hour, a ton of thick gray smoke comes out of exhaust. It has been a little embarrassing at times. I don't know if te gas I use could be causing the problem. I use Shell gas an have been running on the middle grade (89). My first LS had no problem running on 87 or 89. I know Ford suggests using 91. I would suspect that the smoke has nothing to do with gas. If anything, possibly oil or something worse. Any ideas or thoughts? Other than this problem, I love this car!!

johnnylinc

I don't mean to sound harsh here, but why on earth would you not use the proper fuel grade in your LS? The car is designed for 91 octane or better; using anything lower will degrade both performance and mileage, and could concievably cause damage. If you read your owner's manual, you'll see that it very clearly states that 91 octane or higher is the fuel to use. Why would you assume that using the wrong fuel has nothing to do with the smoking problem?

Has the "check engine" light come on? Have you tried using 91+ to see if the smoke goes away? Have you used any sort of additives? (I hope not; the manual specifically says to NOT use such things. Quote: "Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, oil treatments or engine
treatments. They are unnecessary and could, under certain conditions, lead to engine damage which is not covered by your warranty.")

I would strongly suggest using the proper fuel. If the smoke persists after a couple of tanks OR if you get any warning lights OR if the car isn't running properly, I'd take it to the dealer ASAP. Good luck.

v8lincolnguy

I didn't think the headlamps should come on in daylight as I've had several cars with automatic lights and they never came on at all in daylight. I think the sensor is on the dash as there appears to be something that looks like a sensor in the center where the alarm LED is. The headlight sensor on my Intrigue was also in this location. I have really inspected the car and tried everything and this along with the rattle from the rear part of the headliner seem to be the only things I need to have the dealer look at. And program the second remote of coarse. One other thing I did notice was the spare tire was not the same size/type as the wheels. It is full size, but is a Continental(Contitrac?) 16" wheel. I don't have a sales brochure on 01s, but the 00 brochure I have says that the sport package includes a full size spare tire with matching wheel. Mine appears to be the standard LS wheel. No biggie as I don't expect to be driving with the spare, but something I noticed. The spare appears to have never been used as the markings on it from the factory are still there.

Does anyone know where one can find a nice "Lincoln" plate for the front of the car? TN does not require plates on the front, but the bracket has already been mounted and if I remove it, there will be two holes in the bumper showing. Right now the dealer's plate is on there and I really don't care to be an advertisement for them(I already peeled their sticker off the rear). I can always get a collegiate plate, but would like to find a nice Lincoln plate. I've seen them on many other cars(Explorer, Accord, Cadillac, Lexus, etc.)

slunar

v8lincolnguy - Here's the full story on the spare tire. Sport models came with a full size spare and matching alloy wheel until Feb 28. 2000. On that date they were switched to a 16" full size spare on a steel wheel.

The reason for the change was to reduce weight. At the same time re-inforcing bars were added from the unibody to the front main cross-member to improve front impact protection to strengthen the front end for better NVH. These re-inforcements added weight and Lincoln was struggling to keep the Sport LS in a certain EPA weight category. The 5 spoke wheels are cast and are pretty heavy.

Other changes made at that time were to delete the sub-woofers from the Sport Models with Alpine and to delete the adjustable rear head rests. Just an example of how government regs. make the car builders do crazy things.

In March 01 the spare was changed again on the Sport and Premium models to a 17" dia mini-spare.

I say just remove the front license plate holder, the LS looks so much better without it. You're lucky to live in a state that doesn't require front plates. The only reason for them is for photo traffic radar or red light cameras a to give the troopers a good target for their laser guns.

scottc8

Lincoln juggled things around a bit with the '00s and early '01s. They were on the edge of the weight range for which the car was EPA certified and had to trim a few pounds here and there. IIRC the combination of the subwoofer and full size spare pushed it over the limit, so something had to go. Early '00 Sports had a 17" spare on a Sport wheel. Later ones (like mine, and your '01, have the 16" spare on an unfinished wheel. Then they went to the next-exit donut. Good news is the spare tire well is still the same size and will hold a real tire.

At least that 16" Continental will get you home at normal speed, even if you're a long ways away. It's a higher profile tire, so the outside diameter is virtually the same as the 235/50-17.

Haven't heard of any plates for the front. We know some people who have filled the holes in the bumper with good results. Note to new LS buyers: The front plate bracket is NOT attached at the factory. The dealer puts it on. If you order an LS and don't want the front plate, tell them to leave it off.

eweygrin

I put in 89 octane per suggestion of sale rep. Actually he told me to just use 87. He said that as long as you use lower grade fuel from day one all would be well. He said once computer becomes accustomed to 91 you can't go back to a lower. As for checking owners manual - wish I could. The manul was missing and dealr had to order another. I purchased the last 02 they had so they could not take it out of another. Actually I go an unbelievable deal. New 02 LS8 with moon, alpine,advance trak, pearl paint for only 28k after rebates.

slunar

ewegrin: Your salesman doest NOT know what he is talking about. Or as has often been my experience, many sales people just tell their customers what they want to hear and not the truth.

The LS engines have knock sensors and automatically advance the timing of the engine to the maximum possible for whatever octane gas you are using. You can switch gas octane with every tank and the computer will immediately make the appropriate timing adjustment.

Now with that said, the LS engines have a fairly high compression ratio (10.55:1 for the 2002 V8) and are designed to run best on 91 octane gas. If you put 87 or 89 octance in it, the computer has to retard the timing so much to keep it from knocking, you will lose both power and gas mileage.

I tried 89 in my '00 LS a couple of times, the first was because I was in the middle of nowhere and the only station was out of 93. octane. I was on a trip and was carefully checking mileage to compare the message center milage verses my hand calculated. I got about 1 MPG less gas mileage (all highway) than with the tank 93 octane (same exact type & speed of driving).

The second time I started puting 89 in by mistake. I decided to fill it up & see what happened. In mixed driving I got almost 2 MPG less than normal and my LS felt like it had lost a little of its zip.

Another time filling up, a LS pulled in behind me and the owner started asking me about what gas I use. He had come to the exact same conclusion,that is using 89 vs. 93 cost him about 1+ MPG in mileage. If you only have 91 or 92 octane where you are, your difference may be a bit less.

Now, I don't want to be a jerk here, but assuming that you drive 15,000 miles a year, average 21 MPG with 93 octane, you will use 714 gallons / year. Lets say your average price is $1.88 gal. Now if you use 89 octane and average 20 MPG you will use 750 gallons / year and the average price is $1.80 gal. (8 cents is usually the difference where I am) that means using 93 will cost you $1,342 / year. Using 89 octane will cost you $1,350 / year.

So IMHO you are being peny wise and pound foolish by using 89.

brooster54

<sarcasm mode on>
Glad to hear that you got such a great deal! Combining those unspent $s with the additional money you're saving by using low grade gas should just about pay for the new engine you'll be buying in a couple of years! I'll be very, very impressed if Lincoln will assist you with the repairs you're going to require. You are also very lucky to have such a knowlegeable sales person. I'm surprised the Lincoln Engineering folks haven't yet "discovered" him and brought him into the group! Why don't you ask him about the mosquito killing problem too - sounds like he'll hav a bang-on answer for you!
<sarcasm mode off>

slunar

Now that I've given you a gas lecture,eweygrin, your smoke problem most likely has nothing to do with what gas you are using.

If the smoke is dark gray or almost black, it tells me that there is too much gas in the cylinders when you start the car. You could have a fuel injector that is leaking gas in to a cylinder (while the engine is turned off)causing it to run very rich at startup. Left un checked, it can foul your catalytic converter on that cylinder bank and damage the cylinder wall from washing all the oil off it.

If your smoke is a lighter grey in color, it could be either motor oil or coolant leaking into a cylinder, bad valve seal or bad head gasket. Try to smell the smoke, if it has a sweet smell it is engine coolant. Again this is indicitive of a potentially big problem.

If you just bought your 02 LS and it was sitting on the dealer's lot for 18 or more months and they did not start it up and run it on a regular basis, it is possible that some engine damage cold have occurred from all the oil draining off the cylinder walls and valve guides. On the first startup after not being run for over a year, some permanent damage like scored cylinder walls, damaged valve seals or valve guides could have occurred. If the car has been sitting for a long time in a humid climate, you can literally have rust forming inside the cylinders because the oil film drains off.

Sounds like your next step is to take it back to the dealer and have them see what they can find.

If you are lucky your problem is just a leaky fuel injector, which is easy to fix. All of the other problems I described are BAD and would most likely require engine tear down.