Thank you, from what I have been reading the LS appears to be a very nice vehicle. I am planning on going down to my local Lincoln dealer this week to get a test drive. One other question though, is the DVD navigational system worth the money. Do you actaully find that it is helpfull and is fairly updated with most of the roadways and locations that you are looking for. I only ask this because my father had a nav system in his 2000 740iL BMW and it was an absolute piece of junk, the only thing it could find in the entire state of Massachusetts was Boston. Thanks again Anthony
It is a single DVD based navigation system. Everyone I know who has it likes it. I would expect maps to be 1-2 years behind, so very new roads will probably not show. I suggest you find a dealer that has a vehicle with Nav and plot a trip on a route you know and try it. It probably will not always find the optimal route, but it will find a reasonable route on which you will not get lost.
There has been an extensive discussion of the LS DVD Navigation System on another forum. It's pretty much convinced me that I have to have it.
I remember those first generation Nav systems from rental cars around 5 or so years ago and I agree those first generation CD based systems were somewhat useless.
However the new gen. Nav systems like the LS has are way different. Some of the key points I've picked up (at least I think this is what they said):
Part of the price of the NAV system is due to the THX super-premium audio system, which has received great reviews.
It has virtually every street and road in the US in its map data base.
It is one of the easyest Nav systems to use. For example it has voice recognition. If you are anywhere and want to find a way home, all you say is "Home" and it will lay out a route back to your home.
You can enter a particular address, Town, street & # and it will find that address and make a route to it.
It will Zoom in and out from 1/32 mile per division to 128 miles per division with 13 steps available.
This one is a biggy. If you miss a turn on your route, it can automatically update the route to get you back on your desired route. Many NAV systems just start yelling at you "Turn Missed, Turn Missed ...." and you have to figure out how to back track or enter a new route.
There are route preference options: Minumum Time / Distance Use Major Roads Use Toll Roads Use Ferries
You can program in places to avoid. For example, you're planning trip to visit Grandma in Peoria for Thanksgiving and she tells you that the bridge in Quincy was wiped out by a flood. You put a X over Rt 24 in Quincy and it then will calculate a route bypassing Rt 24 in Quincy. I think you can put up to 6 bypass points in your route.
You can store up to 15 destination points and assign them icons. That way you can instantly recall a route.
For trip time calculations you can enter your typical speeds on Residential, Main and Freeway roads for more accurate personalized trip time calculations.
There are a bunch of points of interest stored in the map data such as hotels, gas stations, restaurants, supermarkets, parking, etc.
I'm pretty good with maps and finding my way around. So getting from my home to Chicago is childs play. Where I see the Nav system's value is what happens when I'm actually in the middle of Chicago and am trying to find my way around. In addition I see it as saving a lot of time doing route planning prior to a trip. It also would be valuable if you're on a trip and decide to change your plans.
I could go on a lot more, but I'll leave that to LS drivers who actually have the NAV system. But if you are looking at a leftover 2003 LS and want a Nav system, you better get out there soon as there aren't a lot of LS's left that have it.
Slunar gave an accurate overview. I’m also from the Land of Lincoln. I have the ’03 with the nav. It is worth every cent and highly recommend it. It has over 150 voice commands including the audio and millions of POI (points of interest) that gives you the address, phone number and of course, different ways how to get there (courtesy of a pleasant female voice). Yes, when you start the guidance system and deviate from the route, it recalculates each time and redirects you to your original destination. (This is one of the best parts I think) If you’re looking for a place to eat, it lets you choose from several ethnic foods within the nearest 5 surrounding towns and gives you a list in the order of their distance to you. Of course, you can also type in the name or the beginning letters of a place and gives you a list of possible hits. Even tells you where the nearest ATM is.
Caveat: If you’re planning a trip using historic roads like Route 66 which no longer show up on newer maps, you’re better off taking advantage of Lincoln’s custom trip planner available free to current owners.
Anthony, I'm in southeastern MA if you would like a good demo of what this car can do, contact me travelbill@aol.com always looking for converts to the LS
Anyone know what size the front and rear door speakers are? Mine has the Alpine radio, but as discussed before it lacks the full "audiophile" system. Best I can tell, the four door speakers are it. They sound okay, but when I crank the system up, they get a bit muddy. I read in one of the other LS forums that Ford uses paper cones on their speakers, even models with the premium sound system. Also, anyone know what the output of the Alpine head unit is?
After reading all the responses to my post I have decided to definitly test drive this vehicle. You all have been very helpfull in my decision and I thank you. I am going down to my local Lincoln/Mercury dealership tomorrow to look over this car and hopefull take it out for a lengthy test drive. Also I would like to thank travelbill for the invitation but I don't think it will be necessary if everything goes well tomorrow, but I do appreciate the offer. Thanks once again Anthony
Well after another rainy weekend in the northeast, I had the opportunity to use the rain sensing wipers some more. This time they worked very well, all weekend. They did their thing when I thought they should and I have to say that I like them when they function properly. The test for me is that when I get to where I'm going, I didn't really notice the wipers much which means they're working well.
The LS has cutout for 6X8's in the Door's. 5X7's also fit... Best of luck I just put in a set of infinity's Reference 5X7. Alot of people love them. I think they are good. I am asking alot though. I have a capri convertible(Miata Like) with a 4 channel MTX Thunder Amp. Front and and a 2 channel Bridged amp to two 10" JL Audio's in the Trunk.. The 2003 THX System is nice but not any competition for Big professionally installed sounds sytem's and equipment. Lincoln does use cheap paper cones in both systems and for both Woofers and Tweeters from what I can tell.. No Soft Dome or Silk tweeters there. My Suggestion would be to upgrade the Door speakers, then add an AMP and a sub... I am debating a Free-Air application for Subs in the Rear Deck of the LS. They don't take up space, but are ineffecient (Requires bigger AMP, and might create alot of Sound colorations. Seald Enclosures is best for Quality Bass (Damping Factor much improved-tight Bass) Ported if you want to wake up the neighborhood. Its also a little muddy but output is doubled at the Resonant Frequency (Frequency to which the Port is Tuned). Best of luck. You can wake up the neighborhood with any of these applications though...
Hmmm. No posts for two days. This is almost as dead as the XType board. I think I'll go fill up my XType with some of that good 89 octane gasohol we have around here and go LS hunting. And V8s are welcome. We can throw in some twisties too and really get it on. )
The board died because there was way too much technical radio talk here, and limited interest in that at the moment. This is an amazingly active board usually though. I'm surprised. The rest of the Lincoln boards are snoozers all the time........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yeah, I've notived just from the total number of posts that the other Lincoln boards have no where the activity of this one. It's same way in the Cadillac boards as the CTS thread is cooking while the rest of them have very little activity.
I've had LS 2 weeks now and am still loving it very much. Thus far, the only problem that I need to have the dealer look at is the headlights come on whenever the car is started(even in broad daylight) and then go off in about 10 seconds if it is bright enough. Otherwise, everything works perfectly.
The nine of you who have been here over the past three+ years will recall that I bought my '00 LS (with a manual and only audio options) in an attempt to acquire a reliable American vehicle that competes with BMW & Audi. In '00, there were no Asian vehicles with RWD & a manual in this "class."
My LS handles very well. Since I absolutely required a manual when I bought this car, I have the 3 litre six, which isn't going to knock anyone's socks off. When I bought the thing, the concept was that in a "year or two" the V8 would be available with the manual. Yeah, and we'll all flap our arms and fly to the moon (credit to C. Shultz).
Anyway, I dumped my previous American car ('94 Eagle Vision) because of reliability issues that became obvious in the fourth year. That car stranded me beside the road twice in that pivotal fourth year, once for an ignition switch and once for cam belt "slippage." I also had to spend a lot of money on the automatic transmission in the meantime, but that never put me beside the road.
Given that, this is the year that I'm paying really careful attention to my LS. I'm perfectly willing to pay for reasonable wear after the warranty runs out, but I've driven Asian vehicles that haven't required squat until well after 100K miles.
A week ago, I had a high engine temperature event. What I learned was that if I turned off the air conditioner, the temp gauge came down and the engine was no longer in danger. Given a couple of additional days, I learned that it was a marginal situation, even in Arizona (where it's beyond miserably hot) -- only in the afternoon or after multiple restarts during noontime errands did the problem occur. What I also learned was that the system that fires only certain cylinders to keep the engine cool in these kinds of events apparently only applies to the V8.
That said, I was quoted $680 yesterday afternoon to fix the hydraulic cooling fan system. Imagine my surprise.
The good news is that the dealer I took the car to for service is willing to give me one of the two (for each vehicle) after-warranty allowances, and I'm only going to be charged something on the order of $150. Excellent. The way this dealership responded to my distress is much to their credit. I expect any vehicle to run without anything beyond oil, filter and spark plug changes until way more miles than this car has.
I will continue to keep this board informed. There's no reason that my car shouldn't contintue to provide service for another 60K+ miles with only routine maintenance.
I guess we'll continue to define routine.
Here's the question: What are the rest of you with '00 - '03 vehicles going to do when your cooling fan packs up and you learn that it's a $700 event?
These days the LS has an electric cooling fan. This is why. The old-timers will remember that the the hydraulic fan was an issue not so long ago -- it no longer exists. Do the '03's have the electric fan, or doesn one need an '04 to get it?
The '03's have an electric fan. IIRC, the load on the electrical system was to great to use it before. Not sure what was changed between then and now. Mine is still fine, BTW...65K and counting. I didn't know the early ones were troublesome! I'll have to keep an eye on that. Any warning signs to look out for? You'll be unsurprised to hear, though, that my automatic transmission is a casualty of war, so to speak. A rather brutal tint shop employee dropped it into drive from reverse and shredded it, or so I imagine. He, obviously, won't fess up. He did a nice job on the tint, though! Extended warranty will cover replacement, so I'm not TOO upset. Though I've got a Taurus SE until it's fixed...sometime next week. MANIA IV was blast! The run around Waterford Hills with all the other LS's was a sight to behold. Brings tears to the eyes. One of the members (ErikH) did a 720 on the back straight @~70MPH and missed the concrete barrier by inches. That was tense few seconds...last run of the day, too. Several others spun out into the grass & dirt. I managed to keep it going forward but did put all four in the dirt once. We even got to see Alex (the suspension engineer) blow a test engine on the track! Shot a connecting rod clear through the block! I was really hoping to see you there. Finally asked where you'd been... I was sorry to hear about...stuff... I always enjoyed your outlook on things. Take care. I'll check in here from time to time. OH! Brian bought a BRAND NEW 2002 manual a couple weeks ago...one of the very last ones still on a dealer lot...with a little locating help from...uh...friends. Had it trucked in from somewhere in the central US, I think. He got a chance to drive Bill Beggs' manual at MANIA and fell in love. "Prima Donna" has almost 120K on her now so he was starting to consider something new anyway. 'Donna has been retired from daily-driver status and given over to full-time-club-project-car status.
depending where the car is in my ownership cycle I'll probably pay up. It's not much more than a car payment. Then again one of my other cars is an older 911. While it's quite reliable, when something goes, it's usually well into triple digits to get it fixed...so I'm somewhat used to three digit surprises. Don't take this to mean I like however...
I have 25,000 miles on my 2000 LS-8. I love the car, and based on the fact that the 2003s are greatly improved, I'd love to trade up.
However, depreciation has made my once $39K automobile worth only $16.5K, so trading up just isn't a viable option. So, once the warranty runs out, I'll just have to suck it up and have any necessary repairs done. $700 to fix a fan is a real bummer, but as emc said, it's only the dollar value of one car payment.
Steve, Before you continue bashing American car quality, I have to remind you that the hydraulic fan motor used on the 2000 - 2002 LS is made in Germany.
Let's cut off the domestic vs import quality discussion right here and return to discussing the LS. There are plenty of discussions for that on the News & Views board. Thanks!
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Being as I am a new LS owner, I'm a bit curious about this hydraulic cooling fan as I noticed when reading the manual that there is a reservoir for engine cooling fan fluid. You don't have to get technical, but how does it work? One thing I'll say about the cooling fan is that it is ALOT quieter than the electric cooling fans(there were two) on my Intrigue were. I'm always amazed at how quietly the LS idles. When the A/C is on, pretty much all you hear is a refined "whirr" from the fan. And as I discovered a few nights ago when I had the A/C off and was standing outside the car, it is even quieter! I don't think a Lexus LS idles much quieter.
repairs, I am seriously considering an extended warranty on my LS simply because I plan on keeping it a while. And while it seems to be a well designed and built car, I know that ANY car like this can be expensive to repair. Any opinions on whether an extended warranty is worth it or not. And how long does one have to buy the Ford ESP? I know on GM cars, you can pretty much buy their proctection plan(Major Gaurd) as long as the vehicle is still under the factory warranty.
cdnpinhead, I know they are out there, but to date I have never seen an LS(in person) with the stick. A was a bit disappointed that Lincoln never offered the V8 with the manual and even more disappointed when they dropped the manual all together. Especially considering the V6 got more powerful for 03. Come on Lincoln, Cadillac is going to be offering a 6 speed manual with the CTS's new 255 hp V6 next year as well a V8 powered high performance model that will come ONLY with a 6 speed. And I'm not mentioning all the European machinery that offers a manual with their higher performance engines.
and glad you enjoyed the visit to Michigan. Thanks for the update & by all means check in here from time to time.
It doesn't matter to me much who makes the hydraulic pump and motor assembly used in the early cooling systems. It seemed to me when I bought the car an incredibly complex approach to what would normally be a fairly simple system. When a conventional electric fan system does break, it's much less expensive and the alternator that drives it isn't dedicated to the cooling system.
Anyway, I get the car back later today (I hope) and shouldn't have to worry about the cooling system for awhile.
Regarding symptoms, the little high-temp light (thermometer shaped & red) comes on anytime the temp gauge is between 3/4 and the top, and the A/C shuts off automatically when it gets to the top. When I felt hot air blowing from the A/C, I saw the idiot light at about the same time and the gauge, which was near, but not quite at the top. The temp continued coming down, and I shut the A/C off so it wouldn't come back on, and all was well. As I alluded to earlier, the 8's have a system that fires only some of the cylinders, and alternates them, such that the car can be driven at much reduced power for quite a distance without overheating.
A hydraulic rotary motor is simply an impeller that you force hydraulic fulid through and it turns. Sort of like a water pump in reverse. The advantages of a hydraulic fan motor are that it is relatively easy make the fan speed infinately asjustable. Therefore you can run the fan at the minumum required speed lowering noise. Most car electric fan motors have 2 or 3 fixed fan speeds. Plus as someone else stated electrical load was also an issue.
Keep in mind that when the LS was designed one of Lincoln's main objectives was to make a very refined vehicle. This is why some other key design decisions were made such as manufacturing a new V8 engine based of the Jag AJ-V8 design (more expensive) instead of just throwing in some version of Ford's 4.6L V8. The Jag engine is a smoother running engine with lower NVH (Noise, Vibration & Harshness).
This is also why they decided to use the Getrag manual trannie. They could have used a Tremec, but the Tremecs are not refined units like the Getrag is.
In hindsight, one can always second guess Ford's decisions. If Ford has just thrown in some form of the 4.6L mod motor and a Tremec T56 a lot of people could be very happy with a 320 HP hard shifting unrefined quasi American muscle car. But the refinement the LS has would not exist which could have turned off the majority of LS customers.
That that discussion exists at all may point to a time-related failure mode in the hydraulic system. Having been fairly active in another LS board until about June, I never heard much about this. I'm pretty sure my cooling system (in Phoenix) has to endure the worst of the worst, but I also put on a lot of highway miles.
Could be something as simple as seals that harden or some other situation that has more to do with time than mileage, or even than use/duty cycle. Either way, I had no clue others were dealing with this at the same time I am.
In the future, I'll appreciate the quiet more
It's definitely true that my wife's minivan's fans make a hell of a racket. OTOH, the vehicle has 133K miles on it and is over nine years old, and those noisy bastards haven't missed a lick.
IMO, you guys are NUTS if you don't buy the Ford ESP before your factory warranty is up - which I believe you can do if you're the first owner of the car, right up to the mile or day the factory warranty expires. If you're the subsequent owner, you can buy it from the dealer at the time of sale, and you should. If you buy the car used, see if it has one on it, and get it transferred for $50 to you.
The Ford Premium ESP is the best one, and it's worth it. One decent repair will get your money back for you, sometimes, many times over. And, should you trade your LS in on another Ford product, Ford will rebate you the unused portion of your pro-rated warranty cost back to you in a cash refund, so your risk is minimal. It's a very good program.
Also, IMO, the Ford extended ESP warranty is far superior to anybody's aftermarket independent warranty, just because it is hassle free. You go right into the computer as an ESP covered vehicle, and what's covered is right there, so when your tranny blows, or whatever, you pay your deductible, and forgetaboutit. With the aftermarkets, you usually have to be approved for the repair, and pay the dealer, you get reimbursed later.
There are cars I don't bother to get the warranty for, because the reputation of the car, and my experience with the car is so good, I don't worry, and I've been right every time. A couple of times, I have extended the warranty and been very glad I have. A couple of times, I have extended the warranty and never used it. My 99 Navigator was one example.
But on the LS? I'd buy it, in fact, I wouldn't buy an LS without it. I love the LS, don't get me wrong, but it's not always a bullet -proof car.
Glad you like your LS so much - almost as much as I like mine, I'll bet! Just as a comment, my headlights act the same way as yours do, and I've never thought anything to be wrong. When I first got the car, what threw me off was the running lights not coming on until the tranny is shifted into reverse or forward (Canadian thing, I guess). If you check out most photocell controlled outside lighting, you will find that they come on for a few seconds when the circuit is powered up, and then shut off if sufficient light is detected. As far as I can remember, my loaded Windstar (traded in for the LS) did the same thing with the auto headlights. Just my two cents worth...
My lights do the same as LLSOC's do. I took the car in right after we bought it for this. My 4 previous Sable's didn't do this, so I thought something was wrong. It seems the other LSes we tried on the lot did the same thing. Must be a "feature".
My 2000 blew a hose that attached to the fan, requiring the replacement of the fan assembly. It happened under warranty. I was told that they found a few of these hoses had the fittings incorrectly attached, and the hoses would eventually fail. My 2001 has 38,XXX miles and all is well, so far.
On a side note, I was also told they had a high failure rate of the cooling hose that goes into the thermostat. Apparently, it's a short hose that has a 90º bend. The failure occurs at the elbow. The "fix" is a revised hose with a reinforced elbow. Yes, that blew on my 2000, after the warranty expired. The repair was only $100 (parts & labor), so I figured I'd let them do it.
Has anyone heard or seen about something called the LSE? It's supposed to be coming out sometime in 2004. Is it like the 2002 LSE or is there more to it than that? I've been lurking around for the last year and finally decided to join in the discussion.
The 2004 LSE does exist and is an appearance package to the regular LS V8. The LSE was unveiled by Lincoln a couple of months or so ago. See this Ford (Lincoln) press release for more information: http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=16010
Thanks for posting the link above. I've been considering parting with my 2000 LS for a new one since I've really enjoyed my current one. The 2004 LSE looks fantastic! I've been a lurker off and on for quite a while now and have a 2000 V8 with the sport package. I've logged 35,000 relatively trouble free mile. It's been a GREAT car for me. The handling is amazing for a 4-door sedan.
I also hadn't realized there was an owner's club for the car. Does anyone have any experience with them?
I have recently totaled my 300M Special and decided I was tired of the stiff ride.(don't tell those 300 guys!) So I upgraded! To a 2001 LS-8 w/sport opt. I tried searching this board for some kind of performance upgrade (not that it needs it) ideas and have only been able to find exhaust ideas. Is there some kind of computer chip upgrade for this engine or is it all maxed out from the factory? Also I am looking into a ground effects package. Found a local company that will do the wings west ground effect and rear wing install for $1800.00. Is this a good deal? Any help will be appreciated.
No chip available. A few claims but none have panned out. Don't believe anyone who claims to have successfully turboed or supercharged an LS, either. Nobody can crack the code, and there truly isn't much that could be done, anyway.
There are a few aftermarket upgrades out there, most notably an improved intake system. Try a search, such as "Lincoln LS", and you'll find a source.
You've given up a number of things by getting rid of the 300M, and you won't mind a bit.
That did sound kind of . . . not right, didn't it? Assuming (hopefully) no one was hurt, let's just say that Fate moves each of us to the LS in it's own way. And now, time to shut up before I have to make room in my mouth for the other foot.
I thought 300mlover was saying he was quoted $1,800 for the complete Wings West kit, which would include front & rear bumper covers, rocker covers and spoiler.
In any case welcome aboard 300mlover. Time for a new handle before someone from the 300m forum comes over here and outs you.
I have had experience with them during the two months I have had my LS. I can't say much on this forum about them since it is against their policy to promote other sites.
Personally, I love them though. They are a good source of information and conversation.
$1,800 sounds a bit steep. Have you considered installing a kit yourself? On ebay there are a couple of Wing West kits for around $500. I don't think they are that difficult to install. It would probably cost around $500 to get painted and you'd save about $800.
I tried to get some small scracthes out of the top of the trunk on my new 03 LS. I tried using rubbing compound (live and learn I guess), even though I didn't use very much, now it looks as if I scratched the clear coat. I've waxed and washed several times, and I can always see it if the light strikes it just right. I'ts not a tragedy but I know its there. Any help out there? Thanks in advance.
There is an Edmunds topic on car car, you might try checking what they say there.
Regular rubbing compound will leave visible scratches in your clearcoat.
There are clearcoat safe rubbing compounds. 3M makes a clearcoat scratch remover as does Meguires and other polish companies. Most auto stores carry the 3m products and they are typically used by professionals.
However, some of the swirl mark removal is done by fillers. These fillers will eventually wear away, just like a wax does, so you may have to repeat the treatment every so often.
Comments
RCO program (balloon payment, fake lease) up to $7,000 rebates available. In states without sales tax, the rebates may be lower.
Cash Purchase $5,500 in rebates.
4.9%APR / 60 months and $5,500 in rebates.
0% APR / 60 months and up to $4,500 in rebates.
1.9% APR / 72 months PLUS up to $4,500 in rebates
Thanks again
Anthony
I remember those first generation Nav systems from rental cars around 5 or so years ago and I agree those first generation CD based systems were somewhat useless.
However the new gen. Nav systems like the LS has are way different. Some of the key points I've picked up (at least I think this is what they said):
Part of the price of the NAV system is due to the THX super-premium audio system, which has received great reviews.
It has virtually every street and road in the US in its map data base.
It is one of the easyest Nav systems to use. For example it has voice recognition. If you are anywhere and want to find a way home, all you say is "Home" and it will lay out a route back to your home.
You can enter a particular address, Town, street & # and it will find that address and make a route to it.
It will Zoom in and out from 1/32 mile per division to 128 miles per division with 13 steps available.
This one is a biggy. If you miss a turn on your route, it can automatically update the route to get you back on your desired route. Many NAV systems just start yelling at you "Turn Missed, Turn Missed ...." and you have to figure out how to back track or enter a new route.
There are route preference options:
Minumum Time / Distance
Use Major Roads
Use Toll Roads
Use Ferries
You can program in places to avoid. For example, you're planning trip to visit Grandma in Peoria for Thanksgiving and she tells you that the bridge in Quincy was wiped out by a flood. You put a X over Rt 24 in Quincy and it then will calculate a route bypassing Rt 24 in Quincy. I think you can put up to 6 bypass points in your route.
You can store up to 15 destination points and assign them icons. That way you can instantly recall a route.
For trip time calculations you can enter your typical speeds on Residential, Main and Freeway roads for more accurate personalized trip time calculations.
There are a bunch of points of interest stored in the map data such as hotels, gas stations, restaurants, supermarkets, parking, etc.
I'm pretty good with maps and finding my way around. So getting from my home to Chicago is childs play. Where I see the Nav system's value is what happens when I'm actually in the middle of Chicago and am trying to find my way around. In addition I see it as saving a lot of time doing route planning prior to a trip. It also would be valuable if you're on a trip and decide to change your plans.
I could go on a lot more, but I'll leave that to LS drivers who actually have the NAV system. But if you are looking at a leftover 2003 LS and want a Nav system, you better get out there soon as there aren't a lot of LS's left that have it.
Caveat: If you’re planning a trip using historic roads like Route 66 which no longer show up on newer maps, you’re better off taking advantage of Lincoln’s custom trip planner available free to current owners.
Thanks once again
Anthony
I've had LS 2 weeks now and am still loving it very much. Thus far, the only problem that I need to have the dealer look at is the headlights come on whenever the car is started(even in broad daylight) and then go off in about 10 seconds if it is bright enough. Otherwise, everything works perfectly.
The nine of you who have been here over the past three+ years will recall that I bought my '00 LS (with a manual and only audio options) in an attempt to acquire a reliable American vehicle that competes with BMW & Audi. In '00, there were no Asian vehicles with RWD & a manual in this "class."
My LS handles very well. Since I absolutely required a manual when I bought this car, I have the 3 litre six, which isn't going to knock anyone's socks off. When I bought the thing, the concept was that in a "year or two" the V8 would be available with the manual. Yeah, and we'll all flap our arms and fly to the moon (credit to C. Shultz).
Anyway, I dumped my previous American car ('94 Eagle Vision) because of reliability issues that became obvious in the fourth year. That car stranded me beside the road twice in that pivotal fourth year, once for an ignition switch and once for cam belt "slippage." I also had to spend a lot of money on the automatic transmission in the meantime, but that never put me beside the road.
Given that, this is the year that I'm paying really careful attention to my LS. I'm perfectly willing to pay for reasonable wear after the warranty runs out, but I've driven Asian vehicles that haven't required squat until well after 100K miles.
A week ago, I had a high engine temperature event. What I learned was that if I turned off the air conditioner, the temp gauge came down and the engine was no longer in danger. Given a couple of additional days, I learned that it was a marginal situation, even in Arizona (where it's beyond miserably hot) -- only in the afternoon or after multiple restarts during noontime errands did the problem occur. What I also learned was that the system that fires only certain cylinders to keep the engine cool in these kinds of events apparently only applies to the V8.
That said, I was quoted $680 yesterday afternoon to fix the hydraulic cooling fan system. Imagine my surprise.
The good news is that the dealer I took the car to for service is willing to give me one of the two (for each vehicle) after-warranty allowances, and I'm only going to be charged something on the order of $150. Excellent. The way this dealership responded to my distress is much to their credit. I expect any vehicle to run without anything beyond oil, filter and spark plug changes until way more miles than this car has.
I will continue to keep this board informed. There's no reason that my car shouldn't contintue to provide service for another 60K+ miles with only routine maintenance.
I guess we'll continue to define routine.
Here's the question: What are the rest of you with '00 - '03 vehicles going to do when your cooling fan packs up and you learn that it's a $700 event?
These days the LS has an electric cooling fan. This is why. The old-timers will remember that the the hydraulic fan was an issue not so long ago -- it no longer exists. Do the '03's have the electric fan, or doesn one need an '04 to get it?
However, depreciation has made my once $39K automobile worth only $16.5K, so trading up just isn't a viable option. So, once the warranty runs out, I'll just have to suck it up and have any necessary repairs done. $700 to fix a fan is a real bummer, but as emc said, it's only the dollar value of one car payment.
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repairs, I am seriously considering an extended warranty on my LS simply because I plan on keeping it a while. And while it seems to be a well designed and built car, I know that ANY car like this can be expensive to repair. Any opinions on whether an extended warranty is worth it or not. And how long does one have to buy the Ford ESP? I know on GM cars, you can pretty much buy their proctection plan(Major Gaurd) as long as the vehicle is still under the factory warranty.
cdnpinhead, I know they are out there, but to date I have never seen an LS(in person) with the stick. A was a bit disappointed that Lincoln never offered the V8 with the manual and even more disappointed when they dropped the manual all together. Especially considering the V6 got more powerful for 03. Come on Lincoln, Cadillac is going to be offering a 6 speed manual with the CTS's new 255 hp V6 next year as well a V8 powered high performance model that will come ONLY with a 6 speed. And I'm not mentioning all the European machinery that offers a manual with their higher performance engines.
It doesn't matter to me much who makes the hydraulic pump and motor assembly used in the early cooling systems. It seemed to me when I bought the car an incredibly complex approach to what would normally be a fairly simple system. When a conventional electric fan system does break, it's much less expensive and the alternator that drives it isn't dedicated to the cooling system.
Anyway, I get the car back later today (I hope) and shouldn't have to worry about the cooling system for awhile.
Regarding symptoms, the little high-temp light (thermometer shaped & red) comes on anytime the temp gauge is between 3/4 and the top, and the A/C shuts off automatically when it gets to the top. When I felt hot air blowing from the A/C, I saw the idiot light at about the same time and the gauge, which was near, but not quite at the top. The temp continued coming down, and I shut the A/C off so it wouldn't come back on, and all was well. As I alluded to earlier, the 8's have a system that fires only some of the cylinders, and alternates them, such that the car can be driven at much reduced power for quite a distance without overheating.
Watch your gauges, and good luck.
schneider11 "Anone having problems with an overheating Lincoln LS" Sep 12, 2003 9:41pm!make=Lincoln&model=LS&ed_makeindex=.ef17b29
A hydraulic rotary motor is simply an impeller that you force hydraulic fulid through and it turns. Sort of like a water pump in reverse. The advantages of a hydraulic fan motor are that it is relatively easy make the fan speed infinately asjustable. Therefore you can run the fan at the minumum required speed lowering noise. Most car electric fan motors have 2 or 3 fixed fan speeds. Plus as someone else stated electrical load was also an issue.
Keep in mind that when the LS was designed one of Lincoln's main objectives was to make a very refined vehicle. This is why some other key design decisions were made such as manufacturing a new V8 engine based of the Jag AJ-V8 design (more expensive) instead of just throwing in some version of Ford's 4.6L V8. The Jag engine is a smoother running engine with lower NVH (Noise, Vibration & Harshness).
This is also why they decided to use the Getrag manual trannie. They could have used a Tremec, but the Tremecs are not refined units like the Getrag is.
In hindsight, one can always second guess Ford's decisions. If Ford has just thrown in some form of the 4.6L mod motor and a Tremec T56 a lot of people could be very happy with a 320 HP hard shifting unrefined quasi American muscle car. But the refinement the LS has would not exist which could have turned off the majority of LS customers.
Could be something as simple as seals that harden or some other situation that has more to do with time than mileage, or even than use/duty cycle. Either way, I had no clue others were dealing with this at the same time I am.
In the future, I'll appreciate the quiet more
It's definitely true that my wife's minivan's fans make a hell of a racket. OTOH, the vehicle has 133K miles on it and is over nine years old, and those noisy bastards haven't missed a lick.
The Ford Premium ESP is the best one, and it's worth it. One decent repair will get your money back for you, sometimes, many times over. And, should you trade your LS in on another Ford product, Ford will rebate you the unused portion of your pro-rated warranty cost back to you in a cash refund, so your risk is minimal. It's a very good program.
Also, IMO, the Ford extended ESP warranty is far superior to anybody's aftermarket independent warranty, just because it is hassle free. You go right into the computer as an ESP covered vehicle, and what's covered is right there, so when your tranny blows, or whatever, you pay your deductible, and forgetaboutit. With the aftermarkets, you usually have to be approved for the repair, and pay the dealer, you get reimbursed later.
There are cars I don't bother to get the warranty for, because the reputation of the car, and my experience with the car is so good, I don't worry, and I've been right every time. A couple of times, I have extended the warranty and been very glad I have. A couple of times, I have extended the warranty and never used it. My 99 Navigator was one example.
But on the LS? I'd buy it, in fact, I wouldn't buy an LS without it. I love the LS, don't get me wrong, but it's not always a bullet -proof car.
My 2000 blew a hose that attached to the fan, requiring the replacement of the fan assembly. It happened under warranty. I was told that they found a few of these hoses had the fittings incorrectly attached, and the hoses would eventually fail. My 2001 has 38,XXX miles and all is well, so far.
On a side note, I was also told they had a high failure rate of the cooling hose that goes into the thermostat. Apparently, it's a short hose that has a 90º bend. The failure occurs at the elbow. The "fix" is a revised hose with a reinforced elbow. Yes, that blew on my 2000, after the warranty expired. The repair was only $100 (parts & labor), so I figured I'd let them do it.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=16010
I also hadn't realized there was an owner's club for the car. Does anyone have any experience with them?
KarenS "Lincoln LS Enthusiasts: Meet the Members" Jan 26, 2001 9:45am
Thanks
Craig
There are a few aftermarket upgrades out there, most notably an improved intake system. Try a search, such as "Lincoln LS", and you'll find a source.
You've given up a number of things by getting rid of the 300M, and you won't mind a bit.
In any case welcome aboard 300mlover. Time for a new handle before someone from the 300m forum comes over here and outs you.
Personally, I love them though. They are a good source of information and conversation.
Regular rubbing compound will leave visible scratches in your clearcoat.
There are clearcoat safe rubbing compounds. 3M makes a clearcoat scratch remover as does Meguires and other polish companies. Most auto stores carry the 3m products and they are typically used by professionals.
However, some of the swirl mark removal is done by fillers. These fillers will eventually wear away, just like a wax does, so you may have to repeat the treatment every so often.