Since the Firehawk is no longer in production, does Firestone have a similar tire that was meant to replace it. I figure I'll live with them through the winter since they are rather mild here and start looking for new shoes next spring. By then the treads will probably be pretty much gone anyway.
Since Firestone worked with Ford/Lincoln on the Firehawk LH to specifically suit if for the LS, and Firestone and Ford have fallen out, there is no Firestone replacement for it. I've seen other Firehawks, but they don't look anything like our tires. Lincoln now uses the Michelin MXM4 (I think that's right) all-season tire as original equipment on Sport models. I know quite a few people who have them and really like them, but they're around $210 apiece. If snow performance isn't a big factor, there are good tires that will ride smoother and quieter than all seasons, and provide better dry road grip.
"What's the best tire for the LS?" is a hard question, because different people want and need different things. The best dry road tire will be poor in the snow, the best performance tire will ride rough. All-season tires tend to be a bit noisy. Everybody can get what they want from one Michelin or another, but the cost is tough to swallow. I personally couldn't justify it unless I thought they'd last 60k miles, and I can't quite believe that. I'm not cheap about my car, but I drive 30k miles a year and can't see spending $800+ on tires too often. And, so far I've been happy with tires that cost far less. Firehawks are around $125, and the Kumhos I have for summer use, while not the greatest performance tire, are superb in the rain, quiet and smooth, and cost $103 from a well-known internet tire retailer. Lots of choices out there, you'll know what you want after you've lived with the LS for a while.
I completely back what Scottc8 said in message #12488 & Brooster54 said in #12499. Based on reco's from this board, I went with the Pilot A/S's & have no regrets, actually I'm quite happy, despite their price at about $215 each as I recall now. Best deal I got was through my Lincoln dealer. Those + an alignment & I thought my 2000 V8 Sport was new again. I got 35K miles out of my Firehawks. Like others said, even though they looked like they had some life left, winter traction - Cincinnati area - went downhill bad last winter. Maybe should have changed at 30K looking back.
One watchout: My dealer 1st put the MXM4's on as he heard me say Michelin & thought I wanted what's on new LS's today. Good thing I checked before driving out the dealer door.
Has anyone else had a problem with the seat back from the drivers seat repeatedly falling off? I've had my 2000 LS V8 at the dealers three times in the last three years because the seat back keeps coming off. I'm not sure why this is happening, (I'm not a large person) and it is becoming quite annoying. I've got to take it in again, because it's just happened yet again.
My friend had that problem with his passenger seat back on his Town Car, caused by his kids pulling on it and damaging it. The dealer finally affixed it strongly enough that it quit coming loose. I don't know how they did it though.
Well just put the heat on tonight and got a loud creaking noise every time I switched air flow directions, Also when I turn heat on and off it creaks. It happens every time and is loud enough to be annoying that I dread turning the heat on. I am assuming it is a damper but has any one else had this and is it accessible enough for me to try and fix it myself? The location of the noise is behind the top center air vent.
Yeah, mine does that if I let it sit without operating for months. A couple cycles back and forth always "fixes" it. Like anything else, if you don't exercise it periodically, it'll deteriorate...
I haven't had the creaking noise in the heater, but the past couple of mornings(the temps have been much cooler) I've noticed the car has a bit of a rough idle. When I start the car initially, the tach reads 1200 RPM or so for a few moments then begins to drop off. Typically, I'm driving away at this point but a couple of days ago I sat in the car just watch how quickly the revs go down. Once they were down to about 800 or so, I noticed what I consider a rough idle. Almost felt like a miss or something. Once driving, I didn't notice any lack of power and upon arriving to my destination and putting it in park, the idle was smooth. It only seems to do this when the engine is cold. I'm taking the car in tomorrow to have a couple of minor things looked at so I will mention this as well.
I had that problem with both my seat backs continually falling off, my daughter rides in a carseat in the back & her kicking and storing and removing toys from the pocket in the seatback just wore down the plastic clips molded into the seatbacks. I finally replaced them and haven't had a problem since
Definitely mention the idle at start up. You might not like it (I don't) but it should actually idle faster than that for a few seconds after a cold startup, especially in cold weather. Mine starts & runs at around 2000 rpm for a few seconds, which goes against everything I was ever taught about running a cold engine. Turns out it's supposed to. It's part of the emission control routine, and is intended to heat up the catalytic converters quickly. (I still hate it, and it's one of the reasons I switched to synthetic oil very early in the car's life.) It should slow down to around 1000 rpm after 5-10 seconds, then gradually down to the normal, around 750, as the engine fully warms up. And it should never be rough.
Please post what you learn. This is an unusual problem, in my experience.
Your right, the initial start-up idle is closer to 2000 RPM. I noticed this from day one and figured it was normal as my Intrigue also started up with a pretty high idle speed when cold. The roughness just started a couple of days ago. I'll let you know what they find or say.
Well, I took the LS in for service this morning and mentioned the 3 minor issues I have(the rough idle, broken license plate mount, and rattle from the rear part of the headliner). They are ordering me a new license plate mount(which includes the entire chrome surround) as my plate is currently held in by one screw as the other one broke completely out when putting the plate on. They are going to work with the headliner when I bring the car back for the plate as this is a common problem on the LS. He basically said that the headliner is held up by velcro and that this is why they sometimes come loose in places. Anyway, here we go with the main reason I took the car in(the rough idle).
When I mentioned to the advisor that the car idles rough when cold and that I also notice a slight vibration through the steering wheel when idling in traffic, he asks me what grade of fuel I use. Figuring he thought I was putting regular in it, I told him premium(93 octane). He then tells me to put regular(87 octane) in it and says that even though the car recommends 91 or higher, 87 should work fine. He says he drove an LS for a couple of years and never had any problem using 87. What do you guys think, should I give a tank full of 87 a try? Honestly, if it idles rough on premium(which is what the car is designed for) then I seriously doubt that 87 is going to help things a bit. I may have gotten some bad gas on my last fill-up so I'm thinking I am just going to use premium again and see if the problem continues and if it does, tell them when I take it back in. Unless anyone here has any good reason(other than saving .20 a gallon) for me to use regular. Believe me, I'd love to use regular if I can, but I purchased this car with the understanding that it requires premium and intend to use premium unless this really is no reason to. To me, that just sounded a bit strange.
Don't switch to 87 - that guy that you talked to is a quack!
If you are planning on keeping your LS for more than a year or 2 - you could be doing some long-term damage by using 87.
Maybe this is something I'll have to remember about buying a used LS. You just don't know what you are getting and how it was treated. I'd hate to be the poor bozo that bought that guy's car after he used 87 in it for 2 years!
Yes, that "Service Advisor" is an idiot. I can't see how 93 fuel octane could be responsible for your rough idle. You might try adding a large bottle of Techron or a can of BG 44K at your next fill-up. They aren't "snake oil"; in fact, these two products do an outstanding job of cleaning fuel injectors as well as reducing valve and combustion chamber deposits. The car may also have a small vacumn leak. Modern closed-loop engine management systems simply cannot compensate for any unmetered air leaking into the engine. I once looked EVERYWHERE for the cause of a rough idle on an M6 and when all was said and done it turned out to be a bad o-ring on the dipstick handle. Other items you might check include the oil filler cap gasket, all vacumn hoses, and the intake ducting located between the cylinder heads and the MAF meter. I'd also recommend that you use brand name fuel. I use only BP, Chevron, Marathon, or Shell 93 octane and I've never had a fuel related problem in any of my cars. And one more thing- find a new service advisor; one who actually understands how modern IC engines operate.
I agree with the other opinions that this service guy is an idiot. Using the wrong fuel will cause your LS to get worse mileage and have less power; even if no damage is done, you'll still be paying about the same amount of money for fuel & won't be getting the full capability from your car. If it's still in warranty, the dealership is obligated to fix your rough-idle problem--if that dealer won't do it, find one that will.
I would strongly urge you to NOT try to fix it yourself by adding any sort of cleaner. This paragraph is from the 2001 LS owner's manual:
"Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, oil treatments or engine treatments. They are unnecessary and could, under certain conditions, lead to engine damage which is not covered by your warranty."
I've had that rough idle at startup now pretty much since i bought my 2000, but it only lasts a few seconds at first startup in AM, then runs smooth as silk after that. As for gas, always used union76 91 octane gas, and always run w/mobile1 oil. Not too concerned at the moment about the initial rough idle, but am anxious to learn what the service dept says about others experiences.
I believe that the LS manual is referring to products like Slick 50, Prolong, and other such scams. I have never heard or read of a warranty being voided by using Techron or BG 44K as directed. In fact, some TSBs actually recommend the use of such products when the deposit control of a given fuel cannot be determined. The only way these products can possibly damage an engine is if they are used continuously over a period of time AND at a higher concentration than recommended, in which case the product causes damage to the lubricating properties of the engine oil due to dilution. If your interpretation is accurate, then you would have to advise all LS owners to avoid the use of Chevron gasolines, as they all contain Techron in various concentrations. In fact every quality gasoline contains similar cleaners-or at least they do if the refiner wants to meet the stringent BMW 10,000 mile Inlet Valve and CCD Test; see: http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/ch6.shtml and: http://www.octel-corp.com/ftc/pdf/oil_industry.pdf . In any event, if you do have proof of denied warranty claims due to the use of Techron or BG 44K, I would be very interested to see the documentation.
Tell us about your service experience. Did you take your LS to a Lincoln dealership? Hopefully it was better than your Olds experience. Just curious if you perceived a better level of service than what you've had in the past.
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
I think the service advisor should be reported to the General Manager or to Lincoln. That is NOT a prescribed repair, and seems like a way to get out of having to diagnose a difficult problem to locate. Not the kind of professional I would want working on my car.
It was a Lincoln-Mercury dealer. I was treated pretty well and unlike the Oldsmobile dealer, the service department was not all that busy(not sure if that is a good or a bad thing). He knew about the problem with the loose headliner right off, but I was baffled by the recommendation to use 87 octane. I typically use Phillips or Exxon for gas. I'll probably be tanking up in the next day or so and will continue to use Premium. As for ny rough idle, it is more than just a moment or so at start-up. Actually, when the car is first started and running at 1500 RPM or so, it is smooth. It's after a minute or so when the idle speed slows down that you can feel it shake. Once warm it's not as bad, but I have noticed that while idling in traffic, there is a vibration(like a slight miss) that I can feel through the steering wheel. While this Lincoln dealer is closest to me, there are 2 others that are no more than 30 minutes or so away so I can always try one of them if they want to feed me BS again. I know a dealer service advisor is probably not the highest paying job in the world and your probably not going to have anyone with automotive engineering degrees doing that(unless they are retired), but it would be nice to take your car in and have the person there at least appear to know more about it than you do. I won't bash Lincoln service just yet as this may be an isolated case, but with my Intrigue, I practically had to tell them technically what I thought was wrong or else I got the standard "could not duplicate problem" or "normal operating condition". Who knows, a tank full of new gas may cure this problem as I may very well have gotten some contaminated fuel.
I don't have an engineering degree, but I've had a lot of Fords, and I would bet on a dirty injector or two. I would try a few tankfuls of fuel injector cleaner, or have the fuel rail flushed by the dealer or a mechanic. I'm betting, that will fix it.
The LS V8 should idle VERY smoothly. The 3.9L engine is one of the smoothest running V8's I've driven, from idle to red line.
A few possible things:
1. A bad injector. The problem could be the opposite of what others have suggested. That is you cold have a leaky injector that is putting too much fuel into a cylinder. This would explain rough idle, but OK power and smoothness when driving. Have someone check and see if you have any black smoke coming out the tail pipes when you start the car up, or when you are idling or pull away from a stop.
2. Bad / weak coil pack (there is one on each plug).
3. There is dirt / dust on the MAF (Mass Airflow sensor) wire. - This causes more rough running engines than you can imagine.
I would not recommend 87 Octane either. 87 will most likely not harm your engine but mileage and power will be lower. One of the things that you get for your extra 20 cents for premium gas is usually a better additive package in the Premium Gas. There is usually more detergents which do the same thing as fuel injector cleaners.
My LS now has 27K. Until the past week or so, it idled extremely smooth. In fact, this was one of the reasons I bought the car as I was really impressed with the smoothness and refinement of the engine when I test drove it. I've watched in the rear view mirror when I start the car to see if there is any smoke and I haven't seen any. I'm wondering if a plug or coil pack may be bad as the car does seem to be slightly sluggish just off the line(as if it were loaded down with weight). With the cooler temps and the A/C not being on, I would expect just the opposite.
The guy who recommended 87 octane fuel either doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's just too lazy to properly diagnose your complaint.
Yes, some people run 87 in their LSs, and claim to notice no penalty in performance or gas mileage. But why anyone would by an expensive high performance car and then screw around with cheap gas is a mystery to me. The '00-'02 3.9 V8 has 10.55 : 1 compression. It needs premium gas to deliver the performance, economy, and longevity the engineers intended. Period.
FWIW: Of the LS owners I'm acquainted with, defective coil packs are more common than bad injectors. And my car has had a can of 44K every 10k miles since day one. Engine performance and economy are the same at 87k miles as when it was newly broken in. Still so smooth that when the spark plugs were changed at 80k miles I couldn't feel any difference in the way it ran.
Hang in there, v8lincolnguy. A good shop will diagnose & fix this quickly, and you'll have the car you bought.
I've mentioned this gas/octane issue in another forum so I'll use the short version.
ON whichever car you use, go with what the manufacturer tells you is requires for the engine. If it's 87, and your using higher octane, your WASTING money... The psychological babble that your treating your car for some dessert, doesn't work
If your engine requires premium 91, and your using 87 octane fuel, then your not really saving money, in fact probably averaging the same because the engine will have to work a bit harder to try and prevent from knocking, to TRY and deliver the performance (reduced performance) it's programmed to give with premium gas. So the savings argument doesn't apply in this case.
Not to mention your complicating the engines work, and could be causing some possible damage that will not pop up till maybe later in the engines life.
So that's it in a nutshell, in an eloquent manner.... But personally, if you have the money to afford a premium vehicle, Don't be so DAMN cheap and give it the premium gas. Should have thought of this before buying the vehicle! :-)
We are in the 21st day of a 26 day driving trip in our 2000 LS8 Sport.
I changed out the Firestone tires at 39K+ just before this trip. They were very close to the wear marks, but I didn't see any of the rear tire "center wear" some have mentioned. I always kept them at 32 PSI and rotated front/rear every 12K miles. I replaced them with the Michelin Sport A/S 235/50 ZR17 tires, and I love them. We've put about 5000 miles on them so far, and we've covered all sorts of roads. If they make any more noise than the Firehawks, I really can't detect it except possibly only on some very coarse road surfaces, and perhaps when making VERY hard and fast turns (but they stick like glue, wet or dry). Mostly, I notice a kind of soft/cushioned feeling compared with the Firehawks, which were getting pretty worn. Since I had good results with 32 PSI on the Firehawks, I've been running that in the Michelins too.
As alway, the LS is running perfectly with that silky smooth V8 and on good roads, living room quiet in the cabin, even at 80 MPH. The cruise control in this car is the most steady I've ever experienced. This is a fabulous car for long cross country road trips.
v8lincolnguy - first, you need a shorter handle. -:).
27K seems too low mileage to see coil pack failures. Some early LS V8's had small oil leaks from the cam covers. The oil would collect in the sparkplug wells and cause the coil packs to fail. You could try checking for this, but I really wouldn't expect this problem to show up for another 30K - 40K miles.
You may want to check your MAF. If any contamination is on it, it can cause a rough running engine. Often if an engine is running great one day and the next it's running rough a dirty MAF is the problem.
On the 4.6L V8 Ford engines, a common cause of rough idle is the IAC. (Idle Air Controller), but I have never hear of this being a problem on the 3.9 and don't even know if the 3.9 has an IAC like the 4.6's do.
rayainsw, interesting, I never drove a 5 series. But in your opinion how different is my 00 V8 sport driving experience and performance pros and cons compared to the 5 series you just drove. I thought the BMW 5 was a more reliable vehicle?
On a different note can I drive on the Highway with my moon roof open or will the head liner come apart? Or will the glue or velcro separate?
Yeah, BMW is lots of good things - reliability isn't one of them, you just put up with it because of the incredible German-Engineering and all the performance it brings with it.
Hi all, I currently own a Pontiac GP GTP and am contemplating the purchase of a different car. I need something that is in the ballpark as the GP size-wise and MPG. I love the clean styling of the LS and it is number one on my list. But, I am just concerned about reliability and normal maintenance costs. How is the LS in these 2 areas? Don't bother comparing it to the GP, because I know the LS is a higher echelon vehicle. I just want honest opinions. My other options are the '03 Maxima and the Olds Aurora 3.5. Thanks! Swash
The idle problem is not an injector, but a faulty coil on plug. I had the problem on my 2000 ls after about a year and it took several visits to a dealer before they could figure it out. You may want to ask them to loan you a test monitoring computer/diagnostic tool to drive with for a day or two so that they can get more data on the engine.
I'm on my second LS. Sold my 2000 V8 Sport to my father when I got my 2003 Premium Sport in January. If I didn't have every confidence in this vehicle, not only wouldn't I be driving my second but I would never have sold the first one to a relative of all people. Totally reliable car. A thrill to drive. Never get tired of the permanent grin. As for maintenance, the '03s have free maintenance for 36 mos. The '04s were dropped to 12 mos. I've never had anything out of the ordinary done to mine. No major warranty work either. You'll pay for the V8 in gas. I average around 14 mpg city and 22 mpg hwy. V6 is a bit better. You won't find a sweeter V8 anywhere though.
Have you driven the LS? Do yourself a favor and drive it and the Aurora. No comparison. I'm here to tell you, I did it in 2000 and just walked away from the Olds shaking my head. Can't give an opinion on the Maxima other than to say it's not my cup of tea in the styling department. Especially not the '03.
About the best advice I can give you is just to go drive the LS. That's usually all it takes to convince most folks. It did me.
You didn'd say whether you were looking at new or used, that will effect what some of us will say. Also are you looking at a V6 or a V8?
I leased my 2000 LS (3 years). In that time I only had one problem with it. It was a vibration at highway speed. I never was able to get it fully fixed. Probably because the LS was too new to the dealers and their techs were on a learning curve. After turning the 2000 back in I found out that a few other LS owners had had the same problem and it that it was easily fixed. The problem was there are balancing bolts on the driveshaft where it attached to the rear end. Apparantly some of the early LS's were built with the balancing bolts in the wrong positions.
I had no other problems with my 2000 LS. Did absolutely nothing to it other than oil & filter changes. My wife liked my 2000 LS so much that she was upset when I turned it in. She wanted me to buy it for her as the vibration that bugged me was not strong enough to bother her.
The overall experience with my 2000 LS was good enough, the LS was built so solidly and such a blast to drive that I got a 2003 LS V8 Sport - NO vibration problems with this one! The 2003 / 2004 LSs are significantly improved over the 2000-2002 LSs too.
With all the incentives on the Lincoln LS, it is a great bargain. Keep in mind that the LS is a well balanced rear wheel drive car. It really drives and feels much better than the FWD cars you said you were considering. Before I got my 2000 LS I test drove the 2000 Maxima, Olds Intrique and the old Aurora (new one wasn't yet out). There just is no comparison to how those FWD cars drive and feel compared to the Lincoln LS. My decision back in 2000 came down to BMW 528i (way too much $$, $10K more than the LS8), Audi A6 (didn't want a turbo and the 3.0 just wasn't as much fun to drive)and the Lincoln LS V8 (was simply the best price / performance choice). The decision to get my 2nd LS was a lot easier,
Swash, The torque steer on the Maxima prevents it from being a drivers car. Had one for a week in Chicago in the rain. Stab the gas and it will yank the steering wheel out of your hands or jump three lanes to the left. With all its fancy bells and whistles I couldn't keep it between the white lines. My LS on the other hand has seen race duty several times. This is something I would have never in my wildest dreams considered but this cars begs to be driven. Two LS's for me have meant a service recall for a tranny reflash and fogging headlamps. That's it. Given the spirited driving style and having met the "gear heads" that designed this wonderful platform I say go for it.
My 2000 V8S drives like new w/new tires & alignment at 50K miles. & that is quite a pleasure. Handling is superb. There were build startup issues in 2000 & that's what you'll see large majority of complaints on. I had several of those, Lincoln corrected them, & no problems since. I don't see me replacing before '08. Folks say (no personal experience) that 2003's+ are significant upgrades from that. Must really be nice.
More of the same here. I Own a early '00 V8 sport with 64K miles. I have ZERO complaints and plan on at least two more of these cars; one for my wife and another for me. For now, I'm more than happy and wouldn't DREAM of changing. Like Chartrand, I've even raced mine...so has my wife. This car really does BEG to be driven...hard. Every time I write a payment check, I feel good knowing that the money is well spent. Go take one for a drive and push it while you've got it. You'll love it. I promise.
I leased a 2000 LS in May, 1999, then when lease expired, bought a 2001 Lexus GS 430. Went to Lexus only because I wanted a navigation system & the LS didn't offer one at the time.
One day in June of this year I had some time on my hands so I dropped in my Lincoln dealer to test drive a 2003 LS. That reminded me how enjoyable it is to drive a driver's car.
I sold the Lexus (huge financial beating) and bought a 2003 Lincoln LS Premium Sport. Recently completed a 4,500 mile trip from Michigan to Yellowstone & back. The drive was fun in the LS; would have been a chore in the Lexus. (very poor directional stability)
To the 2 LS list. Only I have 2 NOW! My 2000 has 74K miles on it, with only a few teething issues. The only 2 "major" things were am a/c compressor that ate itself (I've NEVER had that happen before!) and the by-pass hose sprung a leak. Both taken care of and no problems since. Well, except my driving causes me to go through a set of tires every ~24K miles. Oh well....
Anyway, I liked my LS so much that when it came time to replace our '96 Sable, I bought my wife a 2001 LS with 30K miles. It's only been back for the free maintenance.
Even the early teething issues were minor and NOTHING like stories from years ago. There were very few lemons produced, but every maker produces a lemon from time to time.
Normal maintenance is the same as any other car. You shouldn't need to change the tranny fluid for ~150K. The plugs on the V6 are a bear to change. Not complicated, really, you just need to remove a bunch of stuff. The V8 is easier. Don't believe anyone's claim to 100K mile plugs! The V6 takes 7 qts. of oil, the V8, 6. If it matters to you (it doesn't to me), the LS needs at least 91 octane gas. The battery is in the trunk for better weight distrubition.
Hope this helps. As was said earlier, drive the LS, then try to wipe the soon-to-be-patented LS Grin off your face!
When considering maintenance cost, ask about the type of camshaft drive ... some call it timing belt. The LS uses a chain that does not require replacement. Many autos use a belt that requires changing as part of scheduled maintenance. Can be big $$.
I love the enthusiasm everyone has for the LS. I always knew the LS was a fine car that was fun to drive, but I didn't know it had such a loyal following. When Oldsman01 defected, or should I say converted (now known as V8lincolnguy), I couldn't help but be intrigued. (Sorry, pun intended.) Hopefully, in about 2 yrs I will be in the market for another car. Maybe a nice used 03/04 LS V8 will be my next ride. Oh, its fun to dream...
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
The BMW's in general have a so-so reliability from what I have read. The outgoing E39 chassis has been VERY reliable from reports I've read. The new E60 BMW may have issues, but it is too new to tell at this point. Considering all the electrical, it could be interesting.
87k miles on a 2000 V8 Sport in three years. Zero problems except for the infamous rear window regulator failures (since permanently fixed). Still tight, noise and vibration free, and it's been driven fast on rough pavement nearly every day of it's life. The steering response & cornering grip still takes my breath away, and the high-speed passing power still brings a kid's grin to this middle-aged face.
There are solid reasons behind the loyalty sda mentions. This is a superbly designed and well-built car that can be driven like a sports car on twisty roads, yet will eat up 1000 miles or more of interstate in a day of driving while coddling the passengers and driver. And many of us have had the privilege of meeting the people who conceived and designed the LS, and those who build and test it. The dedication and passion of these people makes us even more proud to own and drive this car.
Here's something else to try on a test drive: Where it's safe, really nail the brakes and see what happens. The Lincoln engineers designed (and patented) a way to keep the rear end from lifting under hard braking, so the nose dive is almost nonexistent. The car feels like it's being sucked down to the pavement.
Oh, yeah, one more thing: With current incentives, a base V6 '03 LS can be had for something like $26k. And you're not giving much up to the higher models. I got to drive one, briefly, at a Ford test facility this summer, and the low-end throttle response was as snappy as my V8. This car is a steal.
I've had my 01 LS V8 for a month now and am enjoying it alot. My only problem has been a slightly rough cold idle that recently surfaced and small rattle in the rear headliner. As a former Intrigue owner, the only way I'd consider an Aurora would be a V8 model. The 3.5 liter DOHC is a great engine, but it doesn't get along all that well with the 4 speed automatic to which it is mated to. The V8 model has a different transmission which is much better, however, that wonderful V8 is driving the wrong wheels in the Aurora. I may change my mind when the snow falls this winter, but I'm sold on RWD!! Previously, I've owned only FWD cars so it is nice to have a car that doesn't want to take off in it's own direction when you stab the gas. And the LS is one car you'll want to stab the gas in.
I was reminded again today why I love my LS V8. I was pulling onto the freeway this evening after leaving work and had a pesky BMW on my tail. You probably know the type, they ride your a** when your in heavy traffic as if it is your fault things are moving slow. So as I'm starting down the onramp, he's right on me. As the ramp merged into the freeway, I looked over and saw the lane was open so I quickly pulled over into it and nailed the gas. The transmission kicked down with crisp engagement(MUCH smoother than my Intrigue did in a similar move) and I watched the tach quickly start to climb. I was too busy watching the tach and speedo as well as Bimmer boy's round headlights get smaller and smaller in my review mirror to notice if I was grinning, but I'm sure I was. Now, I know some safety [non-permissible content removed] will probably condemn what I did as reckless and yes I'll admit, I was going above the speed limit, but before I merged over I looked over my shoulder to be sure the lane was empty. And I STAYED in that lane and didn't weave in and out of traffic as many people do. So the only really irresponsible thing was the good amount of premium unleaded that was quickly consumed:) I won't make any assumptions, but I would venture that some of the other LS drivers here have had similar fun with their LSs.
Was a hoot some weeks ago to witness one of our more accomplished drivers eat up an M3 on a race course. I'm not green enough to think the LS will take on anything but this same driver in SCCA trials was running Porsche times. Give a good driver the right tools and he'll do amazing things right Dennis?
Comments
"What's the best tire for the LS?" is a hard question, because different people want and need different things. The best dry road tire will be poor in the snow, the best performance tire will ride rough. All-season tires tend to be a bit noisy. Everybody can get what they want from one Michelin or another, but the cost is tough to swallow. I personally couldn't justify it unless I thought they'd last 60k miles, and I can't quite believe that. I'm not cheap about my car, but I drive 30k miles a year and can't see spending $800+ on tires too often. And, so far I've been happy with tires that cost far less. Firehawks are around $125, and the Kumhos I have for summer use, while not the greatest performance tire, are superb in the rain, quiet and smooth, and cost $103 from a well-known internet tire retailer. Lots of choices out there, you'll know what you want after you've lived with the LS for a while.
One watchout: My dealer 1st put the MXM4's on as he heard me say Michelin & thought I wanted what's on new LS's today. Good thing I checked before driving out the dealer door.
I am assuming it is a damper but has any one else had this and is it accessible enough for me to try and fix it myself?
The location of the noise is behind the top center air vent.
Please post what you learn. This is an unusual problem, in my experience.
When I mentioned to the advisor that the car idles rough when cold and that I also notice a slight vibration through the steering wheel when idling in traffic, he asks me what grade of fuel I use. Figuring he thought I was putting regular in it, I told him premium(93 octane). He then tells me to put regular(87 octane) in it and says that even though the car recommends 91 or higher, 87 should work fine. He says he drove an LS for a couple of years and never had any problem using 87. What do you guys think, should I give a tank full of 87 a try? Honestly, if it idles rough on premium(which is what the car is designed for) then I seriously doubt that 87 is going to help things a bit. I may have gotten some bad gas on my last fill-up so I'm thinking I am just going to use premium again and see if the problem continues and if it does, tell them when I take it back in. Unless anyone here has any good reason(other than saving .20 a gallon) for me to use regular. Believe me, I'd love to use regular if I can, but I purchased this car with the understanding that it requires premium and intend to use premium unless this really is no reason to. To me, that just sounded a bit strange.
If you are planning on keeping your LS for more than a year or 2 - you could be doing some long-term damage by using 87.
Maybe this is something I'll have to remember about buying a used LS. You just don't know what you are getting and how it was treated. I'd hate to be the poor bozo that bought that guy's car after he used 87 in it for 2 years!
I would strongly urge you to NOT try to fix it yourself by adding any sort of cleaner. This paragraph is from the 2001 LS owner's manual:
"Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, oil treatments or engine
treatments. They are unnecessary and could, under certain conditions,
lead to engine damage which is not covered by your warranty."
In any event, if you do have proof of denied warranty claims due to the use of Techron or BG 44K, I would be very interested to see the documentation.
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
The LS V8 should idle VERY smoothly. The 3.9L engine is one of the smoothest running V8's I've driven, from idle to red line.
A few possible things:
1. A bad injector. The problem could be the opposite of what others have suggested. That is you cold have a leaky injector that is putting too much fuel into a cylinder. This would explain rough idle, but OK power and smoothness when driving. Have someone check and see if you have any black smoke coming out the tail pipes when you start the car up, or when you are idling or pull away from a stop.
2. Bad / weak coil pack (there is one on each plug).
3. There is dirt / dust on the MAF (Mass Airflow sensor) wire. - This causes more rough running engines than you can imagine.
I would not recommend 87 Octane either. 87 will most likely not harm your engine but mileage and power will be lower. One of the things that you get for your extra 20 cents for premium gas is usually a better additive package in the Premium Gas. There is usually more detergents which do the same thing as fuel injector cleaners.
Yes, some people run 87 in their LSs, and claim to notice no penalty in performance or gas mileage. But why anyone would by an expensive high performance car and then screw around with cheap gas is a mystery to me. The '00-'02 3.9 V8 has 10.55 : 1 compression. It needs premium gas to deliver the performance, economy, and longevity the engineers intended. Period.
FWIW: Of the LS owners I'm acquainted with, defective coil packs are more common than bad injectors. And my car has had a can of 44K every 10k miles since day one. Engine performance and economy are the same at 87k miles as when it was newly broken in. Still so smooth that when the spark plugs were changed at 80k miles I couldn't feel any difference in the way it ran.
Hang in there, v8lincolnguy. A good shop will diagnose & fix this quickly, and you'll have the car you bought.
ON whichever car you use, go with what the manufacturer tells you is requires for the engine. If it's 87, and your using higher octane, your WASTING money... The psychological babble that your treating your car for some dessert, doesn't work
If your engine requires premium 91, and your using 87 octane fuel, then your not really saving money, in fact probably averaging the same because the engine will have to work a bit harder to try and prevent from knocking, to TRY and deliver the performance (reduced performance) it's programmed to give with premium gas. So the savings argument doesn't apply in this case.
Not to mention your complicating the engines work, and could be causing some possible damage that will not pop up till maybe later in the engines life.
So that's it in a nutshell, in an eloquent manner.... But personally, if you have the money to afford a premium vehicle, Don't be so DAMN cheap and give it the premium gas. Should have thought of this before buying the vehicle! :-)
I changed out the Firestone tires at 39K+ just before this trip. They were very close to the wear marks, but I didn't see any of the rear tire "center wear" some have mentioned. I always kept them at 32 PSI and rotated front/rear every 12K miles. I replaced them with the Michelin Sport A/S 235/50 ZR17 tires, and I love them. We've put about 5000 miles on them so far, and we've covered all sorts of roads. If they make any more noise than the Firehawks, I really can't detect it except possibly only on some very coarse road surfaces, and perhaps when making VERY hard and fast turns (but they stick like glue, wet or dry). Mostly, I notice a kind of soft/cushioned feeling compared with the Firehawks, which were getting pretty worn. Since I had good results with 32 PSI on the Firehawks, I've been running that in the Michelins too.
As alway, the LS is running perfectly with that silky smooth V8 and on good roads, living room quiet in the cabin, even at 80 MPH. The cruise control in this car is the most steady I've ever experienced. This is a fabulous car for long cross country road trips.
27K seems too low mileage to see coil pack failures. Some early LS V8's had small oil leaks from the cam covers. The oil would collect in the sparkplug wells and cause the coil packs to fail. You could try checking for this, but I really wouldn't expect this problem to show up for another 30K - 40K miles.
You may want to check your MAF. If any contamination is on it, it can cause a rough running engine. Often if an engine is running great one day and the next it's running rough a dirty MAF is the problem.
On the 4.6L V8 Ford engines, a common cause of rough idle is the IAC. (Idle Air Controller), but I have never hear of this being a problem on the 3.9 and don't even know if the 3.9 has an IAC like the 4.6's do.
Good luck finding your problem.
And I'd still buy an LS8 Sport - If I were spending my money today.
(see: http://www.thenew5drive.com )
- Ray
Go Red Sox . . .
interesting, I never drove a 5 series. But in your opinion how different is my 00 V8 sport driving experience and performance pros and cons compared to the 5 series you just drove. I thought the BMW 5 was a more reliable vehicle?
On a different note can I drive on the Highway with my moon roof open or will the head liner come apart? Or will the glue or velcro separate?
If you look at Consumers reports, BMW's are usually rated below average in reliability with fair or poor ratings.
Have you driven the LS? Do yourself a favor and drive it and the Aurora. No comparison. I'm here to tell you, I did it in 2000 and just walked away from the Olds shaking my head. Can't give an opinion on the Maxima other than to say it's not my cup of tea in the styling department. Especially not the '03.
About the best advice I can give you is just to go drive the LS. That's usually all it takes to convince most folks. It did me.
You didn'd say whether you were looking at new or used, that will effect what some of us will say. Also are you looking at a V6 or a V8?
I leased my 2000 LS (3 years). In that time I only had one problem with it. It was a vibration at highway speed. I never was able to get it fully fixed. Probably because the LS was too new to the dealers and their techs were on a learning curve. After turning the 2000 back in I found out that a few other LS owners had had the same problem and it that it was easily fixed. The problem was there are balancing bolts on the driveshaft where it attached to the rear end. Apparantly some of the early LS's were built with the balancing bolts in the wrong positions.
I had no other problems with my 2000 LS. Did absolutely nothing to it other than oil & filter changes. My wife liked my 2000 LS so much that she was upset when I turned it in. She wanted me to buy it for her as the vibration that bugged me was not strong enough to bother her.
The overall experience with my 2000 LS was good enough, the LS was built so solidly and such a blast to drive that I got a 2003 LS V8 Sport - NO vibration problems with this one! The 2003 / 2004 LSs are significantly improved over the 2000-2002 LSs too.
With all the incentives on the Lincoln LS, it is a great bargain. Keep in mind that the LS is a well balanced rear wheel drive car. It really drives and feels much better than the FWD cars you said you were considering. Before I got my 2000 LS I test drove the 2000 Maxima, Olds Intrique and the old Aurora (new one wasn't yet out). There just is no comparison to how those FWD cars drive and feel compared to the Lincoln LS. My decision back in 2000 came down to BMW 528i (way too much $$, $10K more than the LS8), Audi A6 (didn't want a turbo and the 3.0 just wasn't as much fun to drive)and the Lincoln LS V8 (was simply the best price / performance choice). The decision to get my 2nd LS was a lot easier,
The torque steer on the Maxima prevents it from being a drivers car. Had one for a week in Chicago in the rain. Stab the gas and it will yank the steering wheel out of your hands or jump three lanes to the left. With all its fancy bells and whistles I couldn't keep it between the white lines.
My LS on the other hand has seen race duty several times. This is something I would have never in my wildest dreams considered but this cars begs to be driven.
Two LS's for me have meant a service recall for a tranny reflash and fogging headlamps. That's it. Given the spirited driving style and having met the "gear heads" that designed this wonderful platform I say go for it.
One day in June of this year I had some time on my hands so I dropped in my Lincoln dealer to test drive a 2003 LS. That reminded me how enjoyable it is to drive a driver's car.
I sold the Lexus (huge financial beating) and bought a 2003 Lincoln LS Premium Sport. Recently completed a 4,500 mile trip from Michigan to Yellowstone & back. The drive was fun in the LS; would have been a chore in the Lexus. (very poor directional stability)
Anyway, I liked my LS so much that when it came time to replace our '96 Sable, I bought my wife a 2001 LS with 30K miles. It's only been back for the free maintenance.
Even the early teething issues were minor and NOTHING like stories from years ago. There were very few lemons produced, but every maker produces a lemon from time to time.
Normal maintenance is the same as any other car. You shouldn't need to change the tranny fluid for ~150K. The plugs on the V6 are a bear to change. Not complicated, really, you just need to remove a bunch of stuff. The V8 is easier. Don't believe anyone's claim to 100K mile plugs! The V6 takes 7 qts. of oil, the V8, 6. If it matters to you (it doesn't to me), the LS needs at least 91 octane gas. The battery is in the trunk for better weight distrubition.
Hope this helps. As was said earlier, drive the LS, then try to wipe the soon-to-be-patented LS Grin off your face!
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
-Paul
There are solid reasons behind the loyalty sda mentions. This is a superbly designed and well-built car that can be driven like a sports car on twisty roads, yet will eat up 1000 miles or more of interstate in a day of driving while coddling the passengers and driver. And many of us have had the privilege of meeting the people who conceived and designed the LS, and those who build and test it. The dedication and passion of these people makes us even more proud to own and drive this car.
Here's something else to try on a test drive: Where it's safe, really nail the brakes and see what happens. The Lincoln engineers designed (and patented) a way to keep the rear end from lifting under hard braking, so the nose dive is almost nonexistent. The car feels like it's being sucked down to the pavement.
Oh, yeah, one more thing: With current incentives, a base V6 '03 LS can be had for something like $26k. And you're not giving much up to the higher models. I got to drive one, briefly, at a Ford test facility this summer, and the low-end throttle response was as snappy as my V8. This car is a steal.