akirby, you got a NEW keyboard. ryan, i feel your pain. at least try to get an ro to see what repairs they did. they probably won't want to give you one.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Ok, say it was a refurbished but identical keyboard. The point was not to blame the manufacturer for something that a dealer did.
This is no different than getting your car hit by another driver and having their insurance pay for repairing your car. Does the insurance company give you a brand new car? Of course not - they pay to have it repaired which is what the dealer should do in this case.
Well just my two cents but I think Ford should be responsible for the actions of thier dealers. That is one of the major problems in buying a car. I think Ford should sell their cars direct. And all other manufactures as well.
Ford tried that experiment (owning the dealerships) in several marketing areas across the country, including where I live. The experiment was a dismal, costly failure.
The dealers are the ones that are preventing Ford from selling vehicles directly to the public. Nor do they want Ford controlling their business. Ford tried with the original blue oval certified program but the dealers sued them - and won. Ford put up a website for used cars - the consumer found one they liked and the car would be delivered to a local dealer for a test drive and purchase. The dealer sold the car. Great idea, right? The dealers sued Ford and won and they had to take down the website. And these were the very dealers that were making the sales.
I totally agree that the mfrs should have more control over the companies that sell their products but thanks to the franchise laws they don't. Given that, it's not reasonable to hold the mfr accountable for something they have absolutely no control over.
I use 15W-50 Mobil 1 in my '00 V8. No problems @ 32* F. Though, I'll be swithing to 10W-30 Mobil 1 in the next couple weeks since the temps will be dropping into the teens (and lower) before long.
May I ask why you are using such heavy oil in such a modern and refined engine? This is opposite my understanding of what's good for today's power plants (unless they've got 300K - 400K miles on 'em!). In my opinion, you're actually causing unnecessary friction and probable oil starvation in certain engine areas, considering todays tight machine clearances and typically smaller oil passages.
Are the steering wheel controls getting flaky also? Like the mute button doesn't work sometimes, or the station scroll switch? My '00 has been doing that intermittently for several months. When the lights don't come on, something else doesn't work properly. I've asked around and found a couple people who had same problem, and it turns out the radio unit itself was defective. I've been living with it so far, but will hit 100k miles and the end of my extended warranty in a few months. I'm hoping to convince the dealer to just replace the radio without running me through a bunch of visits replacing switches. If your car is still under warranty you should bring it to your dealer's attention.
Allen is correct. Car dealers are a very powerful political group. In some states they have gotten laws passed that out right ban any vehicle manufacturer from selling vehicles directly to the final customers. In other states the laws aren't as direct but most states have many legal provisions designed to protect the middlemen (Not only car dealers but other distributors of all kinds of products).
Both Ford and GM built huge dealer networks many years ago. The logic was that they wanted a nearby dealer in case there was a vehicle break down. As vehicles became more reliable Ford, GM and Chrysler have tried numerous times to trim their dealer count, but have seen only very small reductions in the #'s of dealers.
Of course the whole system always ends up backwards. As many of us have found the small country dealer is often the dealer with the best service department and can be a great place to do business with, but can't offer the lowest prices. It also seems that often the low price mega-dealer that also owns other dealerships have have questionable service departments.
Was reading your info on the 5W-20 oil, very informative, and I thank you. Question I have is: I have an 03 Navigator that has 10,000 miles on it now. It uses about 2 quarts of oil every 5,000 miles. Since it's the first Ford I've ever had that had an oil consumption issue, I'm wondering if it's the newly mandated oil, and if some consumption is expected on these engines now since it's so runny?
It doesn't bother me much if it's consistent, and doesn't escalate.
Some recent Cadillac Northstar owners are using a quart in less than 2k miles and are being told by their dealers that it's normal. My '00 LS V8 has 88k miles on it and uses zero oil between 5k mile oil changes. 5W30 since new, Motorcraft synthetic since the first 6k miles.
Different engine than the Navigator, of course, but I've yet to hear of an LS that uses oil like that, regardless of what viscosity is being used.
When I thought I had an oil loss problem, the dealer service dept told me that 1 quart per **1000** miles would be normal. My oil loss problem turned out to be dealer service putting 5 quarts in my engine when they changed the oil. The engine takes 6.7 qts. Their concientious service dept has now written that number using a black sharpie on the underside of my hood. Ah, modern technology!
When I first got my LS V6 sport - i took it to the dealer, because I had a first free service. No problem - took it to the dealership, met the service manager and said this engine takes 6.7 quarts of oil. He acted like he heard me.
After the service, I promptly checked the level - on the other side of the lot... drove back - got the manager & he checked it. He thought maybe the dipstick was the wrong one from the factory - I informed him of the oil cooler and the sport model. He apologized perfusely, as he added the extra 1.7 quarts.
Wow, this scares the crap out of me, but I believe you guys, and I must admit, most of the damage done to my cars has been done at the dealer. What a statement, huh?
I'm a little conflicted now though, since my son went and got himself a job at the Lincoln store, so I have more of an in there now than ever before - at least for the time being. He doesn't keep jobs long.
Gotta admit though, I don't check anything after getting serviced. I just assume they got it all right. Could be a real revelation to me! My Gator takes 6 quarts I think. Perhaps I don't have an oil consumption problem, since I never check until I've driven it a couple of thousand miles. Perhaps I just have a short out of the gate problem, that I discover 2000 miles later, and think it has used 1.5 quarts of oil!
well, going in for service this week. I think I shall check it when I get it back! Thanks, gents!
Yeah, I feel the same way. When I got the LS it came with 36000 miles of free service. To me, that was a big load off - I didn't have to think about the car at all - more time for other worries. When I first reported the missing oil, some folks chided me for not checking my oil more often. And of course they were right. I should not have trusted the dealership service dept. The good news is that an oil consumption test was run thereafter and it was determined that once the oil gets into my motor, it stays there.
I'm getting ready to take mine in for the 30K service(covered by Lincoln) and am going to mention the rough idle to them again. One other thing I've noticed is the transmission has a slight delay when engaging when shifting from reverse to drive. I remember seeing some posts a while back about a "reflash" for the programming and can't remember if this was just for 2000s or if later models were in need of this as well. Mine is an 01 with 08/00 build date. Otherwise, everything is running nicely.
Thanks to those that responded to my previous question. We're the "new" owners of a 2001 fully loaded Lincoln LS with 28,000. ? on extended plans. Looking at the Ford Premium Care plan----is it wise to buy from the dealership that sold us the car or will we get any better deals shopping around (i.e. Internet)? Thanks
You ought to check out the discussions on the Finance, Warranty & Insurance board while you are waiting for responses here. There's a ton of information there.
Of course in the meantime, I highly recommend you buy the Ford ESP at whatever level you are comfortable, from any dealer you like. They are a negotiable price product, so you can shop it around, but the Ford extended warranty is one of the best in the industry, and will serve you well.
The most recent, and final, software version for your PCM was issued in January, 2001. So if a previous owner didn't have it done, your car will definitely benefit from a reflash.
Is yours a V6 or V8? Sport? I'm a fairly "new" owner of an 01 LS V8 Sport and am considering an extended warranty as well. Mine only has 29K now so I still have some factory warranty left, but I plan to keep this car for several years. The Ford dealer I bought it from tried to sell me one up front, but I had not done any research on pricing and the way the finance guy pitched it to me was the typical salesman trick of lumping it in with the vehicle price when giving you a monthly payment breakdown. I told him at this point I simply wanted the car and would think about the warranty.
If you can afford to pay $1500 for an extended warranty then I would submit that you can afford to pay for an out of warranty repair as well. I don't remember any owners having a repair after the factory warranty period that would have exceeded $1500. If you can afford to pay for a repair then you'll save money in the long run by not buying extended warranties.
Extended warranties are good for people who can't afford a big repair bill (fixed income e.g.) but can afford a few dollars a month extra payment by financing the warranty with the vehicle. Or if it just gives you peace of mind to know you're covered (albeit for a short period of time) that's fine.
Just don't expect to save any money. On average extended warranties pay out less than they cost - if they didn't then nobody would sell them. It's always cheaper to self-insure if you can afford it.
That said - it's your money. If you want it, buy it. Just know what you're getting.
I tend agree with what akirby said. I have never purchased an extended warranty and (fortunately) have never had a huge repair bill. I also have never kept a car over 100k miles but I do keep up with the maintenance. So if I did have an expensive problem I know I would still be way better off than if I purchased warranties in the past.
That said I would be bummed if I had a $1,500, or larger, out of pocket repair even if I know I'm ahead over the long run. I guess it depends on your ability and tolerance to deal with repair if it happens. If it helps you sleep better at night then that's something you should consider.
Suppose that every time we were offered an extended warranty on a car, TV, appliance,stereo, tool ... whatever, we declined the warranty, but put that amount of $$ into a savings account.
Then, whenever (if) we had a failure, we paid out of that account. Odds are that the savings account would have a healthy balance now.
It's definitely a crap shoot with any product made today, but I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that the long-term Tranny & Engine life on the LS's look promising. The LS shares the tranny from the Explorer - if they were failing - you'd be hearing about that - that is for sure!
I too just went out of the standard warranty and plan to keep my LS for a long time. That said, I'm somewhat nervous having a 2/00 built LS, but I'll take the chance.
If LS engines and transmissions were failing - you'd be hearing about it here, there and everywhere...
I just had my tranny replaced to the tune of about $2000. It was covered under the ESP. I opted for the $0 deductible drivetrain ESP from Ford. It cost me ~$800 for 7/100K. Back in '96 when we bought my wife's car, I also got one for it. I was about ~$1000. We never used it. I'm only $200 ahead, so far. Would I do it again? Yep. It's worth the peace of mind to me.
Wow - that's a rare occurrence. The trannys that I've heard about failing all failed within the first couple of years and under factory warranty.
I will say if I was going to buy one it would be just for the powertrain - the most expensive components - and with at least a $500 deductible. That would still protect you from a major failure but would probably only cost a few hundred dollars (as opposed to $1500 for bumper to bumper coverage).
That was exactly my point. If I take the last 4 vehicles I've owned plus all the electronics I've bought over the last 10 years, I've saved between $4K and $6K by not buying any extended warranties. In those 10 years I haven't paid for a single repair that would have been covered by an extended warranty. So I'm at least $4K ahead. If I have to buy a new tranny for $2K I'm still $2K ahead.
But you have to draw the line somewhere. I can afford almost any type of repair bill. I can't however, afford to total a car that's worth $20K so I have car insurance with collision coverage. Same for homeowner's insurance.
Think about it - when's the last time an insurance company went bankrupt? Extended warranties are nothing more than insurance policies.
It's unusual, but hardly inconceivable, to have repairs exceed the cost of an extended warrany in a car this complex, over the course of 100k miles. Yes, it's a reliable car, especially the major components, but $1500 or so doesn't fix much. My car has 88k miles on it, warranty almost gone and I've only had one $300 repair (front window regulator) covered by it. But I'm still glad I did it, and would do it again. Just as I don't feel like my money is wasted on homeowner's insurance just because my roof hasn't been destroyed by hail yet.
I recently purchased a LS8 with 30K for the wife. I was gun shy b/c I spent at least $2K in repairs for her '97 Aurora during 2 years of ownership . . . and it still had a non-functioning A/C (best repair estimate $850) when we gave it to the L/M dealer.
I narrowly favored Warranty Direct over Ford Premium Care. I hope I never have to use it but the intent was truly to buy a peace of mind . . . primarily b/c every dollar spent on the LS delays my Acura TL. Despite all of the LS' positive character traits, it's still a low volume vehicle from FoMoCo.
My elderly mother gave a deposit to purchase a new 2003 LS. She has not taken delivery of it.
1. Two or three competing dealers called her to say that this wasn't possible as there were none available when they did their search for the car she wanted (a non white - non sporty LS).
2. This "new" car has about 266 kms on it.
3. The dealer has also volunteered to my mother that he is going to have the carpet (shampoo?) cleaned - which is an extraordinary thing to do to a new car from my perspective.
4. When I did a VIN check, the US sites acknowledged the VIN (no owner info though) but the one in Canada, where I am, did not.
My mother is concerned if the car is new and I am trying to check it out before/when she takes delivery.
One of the things I thought that I would check is the tires. If they have been changed from the factory standard ? Should I be more suspicious or is this fairly common practice ? Naturally if the serial number on the tires indicates that they were manufactured after the car, it would be another thing that might raise our eyebrows.
And what was the factory standard in 2003 ? (With the Firestone/Ford fight, I haven't been able to find out).
If anyone has any other ideas on the above or how to determine if the car has been driven for a while and the OD turned back, I'd really appreciate them.
cleduc, this stinks to high heaven. If your mother wants to purchase an LS, even if she has particular wants, there is a dealer that will sell her the car she wants, rather than a car they want to be rid of. Unless things are different in Canada, a dealer claiming they can't find a car to match her requirements sounds fishy. And 2004 models are in production so she can order exactly the car she wants.
scottc8, I agree that it doesn't smell too good. The point of mentioning the other dealers is that they were suspicious of the the car's origin when they couldn't find one for her. The problem with just running away is the deposit. I need to try to find more cause/proof so that we can try to recover the deposit - show that the car is "used".
I don't know precisely why she got stuck on a 2003 model but she claimed it had something to do with some safety features available with modification to the 2003 (back up warning alarm, stuff for her eye sight, etc - special things that they could add to it through modification easier than the 2004 - apparently) and the price - discounted because it is a 2003 model.
Knowing a little more about the original factory tires may help as the car is supposed to be a factory model or pure stock that they can modify with these safety features that she wanted.
The fact that other dealer's can't find this LS in their system does not mean anything. When I was searching for a 2003 LS, I found lots of LS's by using the Lincoln dealer inventory locator (from the Lincoln web site) that 2 different dealers told me did not exist. This says to me there is something deficient in the inventory locator system the dealers use (or the dealer's don't know how to use it properly).
If you have a similar internet inventory locator from the Lincoln web site in Canada, see if you can find that car in the dealer's inventory.
I don't know if it is the same in Canada, but in the US non sport LS's come with 225/55R/16 Continental tires and Sport models come with 235/50R/17 Michelin MXM4 tires.
However, with that said, something sounds fishy with this car and dealer. There is no difference in the equipment or options on the 2004 LS. The back up warning (called rear park assist) is avaialble on both 2003 and 2004 LSs. The only difference is that on the 2004 LS you can only buy the RPA in combination with the side curtain air bags.
From what you have found out, I wonder if this could be a US car that the dealer in Canada got his hands on. One way to check whether it is a US or Canadian model, is US LS's do NOT have daytime running lights but Candian models do. So you could check and see if it had DRL's or not.
The LS may be a "low volume" vehicle compared to a Taurus or a Camry, but there are a good number of them on the road. I don't have any sales figures for the LS, but I believe the car hit Lincoln's sales targets. I know I see quite a few of them on the roads. Anyone know roughly how many LSs are sold yearly? Ideally, it is my kind of car. It's common enough that most people know what it is, but you don't see them on every street corner or parking lot. As good of a driving car the BMW 3 series may be, I don't think I would ever want one for the fact that they are EVERYWHERE. In upscale parts of town, 3 series sedans are as common as Camrys and Tauri.
are always interesting, and I've lost track of late. There's industry data that provides year-to-date for the current year and the previous year, as well as current month vs. previous month. I've lost the link that provides the info, but it certainly provides food for thought.
How the LS compares to the CTS, BMW 5, G35 and others could be even more interesting. Many feel/think that the LS is the better vehicle, but the last I heard, the CTS was doing better, between the two domestic competitors.
Initially the delta could be written off to the novelty of the CTS, but it's been out awhile now, so the difference (if it's still there) may have another explanation.
Two questions: 1) Is the CTS still outselling the LS & 2) Why?
Somehow suspected that you'd be Johnny-on-the-spot with the data of interest.
Many of the cars for which you gave us data are showing declining sales, year-over-year. Some aren't.
Read it and think (or weep).
Oddly enough, the post with all the good data has been deleted. It may come back later with even more information, or it may not.
What it said (Readers' Digest version) is that CTS, G35 & BMW are up, year-over-year, and most of the rest are down. Don't recall the month-over-month stuff, but I think G35 was good there as well.
I fully understand about the deposit. '03 Sport models come with Michelin all-season tires, at least in the US. I think the non-Sport models have Continentals, but don't know which model. If your mother is getting the car she wants at a good price, and you have a full new-car warranty, and the mileage at delivery is documented (for warranty purposes) there is nothing wrong with buying a new car with a few miles on it. My '00 had 153 miles on the odometer when I bought it new, because it had been in dealer's stock for several months. The salesmen had taken it out once in a while. It bugged me a little bit, but at least it wasn't sitting around flat-spotting the tires, and the car (now at 88k miles) has been nearly perfect. Mechanically, absolutely perfect.
Sounds like you're stuck, but the good news is your mother is "stuck" with a superb automobile.
I really appreciated your efforts to respond.The posts were helpful. Thanks.
I've coordinated with our mechanic and have a long checklist so we should be able to flush this out one way or the other. It should be an interesting day.
As requested, sales for October on the LS were 2275, compare this with the Aviator at 2630 and Navi at 2,999. So far this year 28,759 have been sold, -13% down from last years year to date sales of 33,257.
cndpinhead posted "Initially the delta could be written off to the novelty of the CTS, but it's been out awhile now"
Steve, although the CTS is presently outselling the LS, it appears that the novelty of the CTS IS wearing off. Monthly CTS sales peaked earlier in '03 and now year over year sales are declining.
CTS sales for Sept 03 were down 8% from Sept 02. For Oct 03 CTS sales were down 21% from Oct 02.
slunar discusses the trends of the month-over-month and year-over-year data -- Excellent! "At the end of the day," units out the door are what count. Is CTS losing potential sales to another vehicle? Is it within GM?
Put another way, is LS losing sales to the Ford trucks (that would include the majority of Lincoln sales volume), or to a completely different brand? I don't know the answer, but will be interested in hearing from those who do.
Some say GM is losing CTS sales to itself, while Lincoln loses LS sales to other brands. I don't know the answer. That's why I asked the question.
It's moderately interesting that when the LS was introduced, it had the domestic field to itself. The CTS is competing with our beloved LS, as well as the G35. Some will say that the G35 isn't a competitor, but others are buying them.
Comments
ryan, i feel your pain. at least try to get an ro to see what repairs they did. they probably won't want to give you one.
This is no different than getting your car hit by another driver and having their insurance pay for repairing your car. Does the insurance company give you a brand new car? Of course not - they pay to have it repaired which is what the dealer should do in this case.
I totally agree that the mfrs should have more control over the companies that sell their products but thanks to the franchise laws they don't. Given that, it's not reasonable to hold the mfr accountable for something they have absolutely no control over.
Both Ford and GM built huge dealer networks many years ago. The logic was that they wanted a nearby dealer in case there was a vehicle break down. As vehicles became more reliable Ford, GM and Chrysler have tried numerous times to trim their dealer count, but have seen only very small reductions in the #'s of dealers.
Of course the whole system always ends up backwards. As many of us have found the small country dealer is often the dealer with the best service department and can be a great place to do business with, but can't offer the lowest prices. It also seems that often the low price mega-dealer that also owns other dealerships have have questionable service departments.
It doesn't bother me much if it's consistent, and doesn't escalate.
Different engine than the Navigator, of course, but I've yet to hear of an LS that uses oil like that, regardless of what viscosity is being used.
FWIW.
My oil loss problem turned out to be dealer service putting 5 quarts in my engine when they changed the oil. The engine takes 6.7 qts. Their concientious service dept has now written that number using a black sharpie on the underside of my hood. Ah, modern technology!
George
After the service, I promptly checked the level - on the other side of the lot... drove back - got the manager & he checked it. He thought maybe the dipstick was the wrong one from the factory - I informed him of the oil cooler and the sport model. He apologized perfusely, as he added the extra 1.7 quarts.
This is exactly why I change my own oil...
Of course the service tech should check the oil level with the dipstick but most probably don't. Yet another reason why I do my own.
I'm a little conflicted now though, since my son went and got himself a job at the Lincoln store, so I have more of an in there now than ever before - at least for the time being. He doesn't keep jobs long.
Gotta admit though, I don't check anything after getting serviced. I just assume they got it all right. Could be a real revelation to me! My Gator takes 6 quarts I think. Perhaps I don't have an oil consumption problem, since I never check until I've driven it a couple of thousand miles. Perhaps I just have a short out of the gate problem, that I discover 2000 miles later, and think it has used 1.5 quarts of oil!
well, going in for service this week. I think I shall check it when I get it back! Thanks, gents!
You ought to check out the discussions on the Finance, Warranty & Insurance board while you are waiting for responses here. There's a ton of information there.
Extended warranties are good for people who can't afford a big repair bill (fixed income e.g.) but can afford a few dollars a month extra payment by financing the warranty with the vehicle. Or if it just gives you peace of mind to know you're covered (albeit for a short period of time) that's fine.
Just don't expect to save any money. On average extended warranties pay out less than they cost - if they didn't then nobody would sell them. It's always cheaper to self-insure if you can afford it.
That said - it's your money. If you want it, buy it. Just know what you're getting.
That said I would be bummed if I had a $1,500, or larger, out of pocket repair even if I know I'm ahead over the long run. I guess it depends on your ability and tolerance to deal with repair if it happens. If it helps you sleep better at night then that's something you should consider.
Then, whenever (if) we had a failure, we paid out of that account. Odds are that the savings account would have a healthy balance now.
I too just went out of the standard warranty and plan to keep my LS for a long time. That said, I'm somewhat nervous having a 2/00 built LS, but I'll take the chance.
If LS engines and transmissions were failing - you'd be hearing about it here, there and everywhere...
I will say if I was going to buy one it would be just for the powertrain - the most expensive components - and with at least a $500 deductible. That would still protect you from a major failure but would probably only cost a few hundred dollars (as opposed to $1500 for bumper to bumper coverage).
But you have to draw the line somewhere. I can afford almost any type of repair bill. I can't however, afford to total a car that's worth $20K so I have car insurance with collision coverage. Same for homeowner's insurance.
Think about it - when's the last time an insurance company went bankrupt? Extended warranties are nothing more than insurance policies.
I narrowly favored Warranty Direct over Ford Premium Care. I hope I never have to use it but the intent was truly to buy a peace of mind . . . primarily b/c every dollar spent on the LS delays my Acura TL. Despite all of the LS' positive character traits, it's still a low volume vehicle from FoMoCo.
1. Two or three competing dealers called her to say that this wasn't possible as there were none available when they did their search for the car she wanted (a non white - non sporty LS).
2. This "new" car has about 266 kms on it.
3. The dealer has also volunteered to my mother that he is going to have the carpet (shampoo?) cleaned - which is an extraordinary thing to do to a new car from my perspective.
4. When I did a VIN check, the US sites acknowledged the VIN (no owner info though) but the one in Canada, where I am, did not.
My mother is concerned if the car is new and I am trying to check it out before/when she takes delivery.
One of the things I thought that I would check is the tires. If they have been changed from the factory standard ? Should I be more suspicious or is this fairly common practice ? Naturally if the serial number on the tires indicates that they were manufactured after the car, it would be another thing that might raise our eyebrows.
And what was the factory standard in 2003 ? (With the Firestone/Ford fight, I haven't been able to find out).
If anyone has any other ideas on the above or how to determine if the car has been driven for a while and the OD turned back, I'd really appreciate them.
I have to know by Monday morning.
I don't know precisely why she got stuck on a 2003 model but she claimed it had something to do with some safety features available with modification to the 2003 (back up warning alarm, stuff for her eye sight, etc - special things that they could add to it through modification easier than the 2004 - apparently) and the price - discounted because it is a 2003 model.
Knowing a little more about the original factory tires may help as the car is supposed to be a factory model or pure stock that they can modify with these safety features that she wanted.
If you have a similar internet inventory locator from the Lincoln web site in Canada, see if you can find that car in the dealer's inventory.
I don't know if it is the same in Canada, but in the US non sport LS's come with 225/55R/16 Continental tires and Sport models come with 235/50R/17 Michelin MXM4 tires.
However, with that said, something sounds fishy with this car and dealer. There is no difference in the equipment or options on the 2004 LS. The back up warning (called rear park assist) is avaialble on both 2003 and 2004 LSs. The only difference is that on the 2004 LS you can only buy the RPA in combination with the side curtain air bags.
From what you have found out, I wonder if this could be a US car that the dealer in Canada got his hands on. One way to check whether it is a US or Canadian model, is US LS's do NOT have daytime running lights but Candian models do. So you could check and see if it had DRL's or not.
How the LS compares to the CTS, BMW 5, G35 and others could be even more interesting. Many feel/think that the LS is the better vehicle, but the last I heard, the CTS was doing better, between the two domestic competitors.
Initially the delta could be written off to the novelty of the CTS, but it's been out awhile now, so the difference (if it's still there) may have another explanation.
Two questions: 1) Is the CTS still outselling the LS & 2) Why?
Many of the cars for which you gave us data are showing declining sales, year-over-year. Some aren't.
Read it and think (or weep).
Oddly enough, the post with all the good data has been deleted. It may come back later with even more information, or it may not.
What it said (Readers' Digest version) is that CTS, G35 & BMW are up, year-over-year, and most of the rest are down. Don't recall the month-over-month stuff, but I think G35 was good there as well.
Go figure.
Sounds like you're stuck, but the good news is your mother is "stuck" with a superb automobile.
I've coordinated with our mechanic and have a long checklist so we should be able to flush this out one way or the other. It should be an interesting day.
Steve, although the CTS is presently outselling the LS, it appears that the novelty of the CTS IS wearing off. Monthly CTS sales peaked earlier in '03 and now year over year sales are declining.
CTS sales for Sept 03 were down 8% from Sept 02.
For Oct 03 CTS sales were down 21% from Oct 02.
Put another way, is LS losing sales to the Ford trucks (that would include the majority of Lincoln sales volume), or to a completely different brand? I don't know the answer, but will be interested in hearing from those who do.
Some say GM is losing CTS sales to itself, while Lincoln loses LS sales to other brands. I don't know the answer. That's why I asked the question.
It's moderately interesting that when the LS was introduced, it had the domestic field to itself. The CTS is competing with our beloved LS, as well as the G35. Some will say that the G35 isn't a competitor, but others are buying them.