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Comments
ryan, i feel your pain. at least try to get an ro to see what repairs they did. they probably won't want to give you one.
This is no different than getting your car hit by another driver and having their insurance pay for repairing your car. Does the insurance company give you a brand new car? Of course not - they pay to have it repaired which is what the dealer should do in this case.
I totally agree that the mfrs should have more control over the companies that sell their products but thanks to the franchise laws they don't. Given that, it's not reasonable to hold the mfr accountable for something they have absolutely no control over.
Both Ford and GM built huge dealer networks many years ago. The logic was that they wanted a nearby dealer in case there was a vehicle break down. As vehicles became more reliable Ford, GM and Chrysler have tried numerous times to trim their dealer count, but have seen only very small reductions in the #'s of dealers.
Of course the whole system always ends up backwards. As many of us have found the small country dealer is often the dealer with the best service department and can be a great place to do business with, but can't offer the lowest prices. It also seems that often the low price mega-dealer that also owns other dealerships have have questionable service departments.
It doesn't bother me much if it's consistent, and doesn't escalate.
Different engine than the Navigator, of course, but I've yet to hear of an LS that uses oil like that, regardless of what viscosity is being used.
FWIW.
My oil loss problem turned out to be dealer service putting 5 quarts in my engine when they changed the oil. The engine takes 6.7 qts. Their concientious service dept has now written that number using a black sharpie on the underside of my hood. Ah, modern technology!
George
After the service, I promptly checked the level - on the other side of the lot... drove back - got the manager & he checked it. He thought maybe the dipstick was the wrong one from the factory - I informed him of the oil cooler and the sport model. He apologized perfusely, as he added the extra 1.7 quarts.
This is exactly why I change my own oil...
Of course the service tech should check the oil level with the dipstick but most probably don't. Yet another reason why I do my own.
I'm a little conflicted now though, since my son went and got himself a job at the Lincoln store, so I have more of an in there now than ever before - at least for the time being. He doesn't keep jobs long.
Gotta admit though, I don't check anything after getting serviced. I just assume they got it all right. Could be a real revelation to me! My Gator takes 6 quarts I think. Perhaps I don't have an oil consumption problem, since I never check until I've driven it a couple of thousand miles. Perhaps I just have a short out of the gate problem, that I discover 2000 miles later, and think it has used 1.5 quarts of oil!
well, going in for service this week. I think I shall check it when I get it back! Thanks, gents!
You ought to check out the discussions on the Finance, Warranty & Insurance board while you are waiting for responses here. There's a ton of information there.
Extended warranties are good for people who can't afford a big repair bill (fixed income e.g.) but can afford a few dollars a month extra payment by financing the warranty with the vehicle. Or if it just gives you peace of mind to know you're covered (albeit for a short period of time) that's fine.
Just don't expect to save any money. On average extended warranties pay out less than they cost - if they didn't then nobody would sell them. It's always cheaper to self-insure if you can afford it.
That said - it's your money. If you want it, buy it. Just know what you're getting.
That said I would be bummed if I had a $1,500, or larger, out of pocket repair even if I know I'm ahead over the long run. I guess it depends on your ability and tolerance to deal with repair if it happens. If it helps you sleep better at night then that's something you should consider.
Then, whenever (if) we had a failure, we paid out of that account. Odds are that the savings account would have a healthy balance now.
I too just went out of the standard warranty and plan to keep my LS for a long time. That said, I'm somewhat nervous having a 2/00 built LS, but I'll take the chance.
If LS engines and transmissions were failing - you'd be hearing about it here, there and everywhere...
I will say if I was going to buy one it would be just for the powertrain - the most expensive components - and with at least a $500 deductible. That would still protect you from a major failure but would probably only cost a few hundred dollars (as opposed to $1500 for bumper to bumper coverage).
But you have to draw the line somewhere. I can afford almost any type of repair bill. I can't however, afford to total a car that's worth $20K so I have car insurance with collision coverage. Same for homeowner's insurance.
Think about it - when's the last time an insurance company went bankrupt? Extended warranties are nothing more than insurance policies.
I narrowly favored Warranty Direct over Ford Premium Care. I hope I never have to use it but the intent was truly to buy a peace of mind . . . primarily b/c every dollar spent on the LS delays my Acura TL. Despite all of the LS' positive character traits, it's still a low volume vehicle from FoMoCo.
1. Two or three competing dealers called her to say that this wasn't possible as there were none available when they did their search for the car she wanted (a non white - non sporty LS).
2. This "new" car has about 266 kms on it.
3. The dealer has also volunteered to my mother that he is going to have the carpet (shampoo?) cleaned - which is an extraordinary thing to do to a new car from my perspective.
4. When I did a VIN check, the US sites acknowledged the VIN (no owner info though) but the one in Canada, where I am, did not.
My mother is concerned if the car is new and I am trying to check it out before/when she takes delivery.
One of the things I thought that I would check is the tires. If they have been changed from the factory standard ? Should I be more suspicious or is this fairly common practice ? Naturally if the serial number on the tires indicates that they were manufactured after the car, it would be another thing that might raise our eyebrows.
And what was the factory standard in 2003 ? (With the Firestone/Ford fight, I haven't been able to find out).
If anyone has any other ideas on the above or how to determine if the car has been driven for a while and the OD turned back, I'd really appreciate them.
I have to know by Monday morning.
I don't know precisely why she got stuck on a 2003 model but she claimed it had something to do with some safety features available with modification to the 2003 (back up warning alarm, stuff for her eye sight, etc - special things that they could add to it through modification easier than the 2004 - apparently) and the price - discounted because it is a 2003 model.
Knowing a little more about the original factory tires may help as the car is supposed to be a factory model or pure stock that they can modify with these safety features that she wanted.
If you have a similar internet inventory locator from the Lincoln web site in Canada, see if you can find that car in the dealer's inventory.
I don't know if it is the same in Canada, but in the US non sport LS's come with 225/55R/16 Continental tires and Sport models come with 235/50R/17 Michelin MXM4 tires.
However, with that said, something sounds fishy with this car and dealer. There is no difference in the equipment or options on the 2004 LS. The back up warning (called rear park assist) is avaialble on both 2003 and 2004 LSs. The only difference is that on the 2004 LS you can only buy the RPA in combination with the side curtain air bags.
From what you have found out, I wonder if this could be a US car that the dealer in Canada got his hands on. One way to check whether it is a US or Canadian model, is US LS's do NOT have daytime running lights but Candian models do. So you could check and see if it had DRL's or not.
How the LS compares to the CTS, BMW 5, G35 and others could be even more interesting. Many feel/think that the LS is the better vehicle, but the last I heard, the CTS was doing better, between the two domestic competitors.
Initially the delta could be written off to the novelty of the CTS, but it's been out awhile now, so the difference (if it's still there) may have another explanation.
Two questions: 1) Is the CTS still outselling the LS & 2) Why?
Many of the cars for which you gave us data are showing declining sales, year-over-year. Some aren't.
Read it and think (or weep).
Oddly enough, the post with all the good data has been deleted. It may come back later with even more information, or it may not.
What it said (Readers' Digest version) is that CTS, G35 & BMW are up, year-over-year, and most of the rest are down. Don't recall the month-over-month stuff, but I think G35 was good there as well.
Go figure.
Sounds like you're stuck, but the good news is your mother is "stuck" with a superb automobile.
I've coordinated with our mechanic and have a long checklist so we should be able to flush this out one way or the other. It should be an interesting day.
Steve, although the CTS is presently outselling the LS, it appears that the novelty of the CTS IS wearing off. Monthly CTS sales peaked earlier in '03 and now year over year sales are declining.
CTS sales for Sept 03 were down 8% from Sept 02.
For Oct 03 CTS sales were down 21% from Oct 02.
Put another way, is LS losing sales to the Ford trucks (that would include the majority of Lincoln sales volume), or to a completely different brand? I don't know the answer, but will be interested in hearing from those who do.
Some say GM is losing CTS sales to itself, while Lincoln loses LS sales to other brands. I don't know the answer. That's why I asked the question.
It's moderately interesting that when the LS was introduced, it had the domestic field to itself. The CTS is competing with our beloved LS, as well as the G35. Some will say that the G35 isn't a competitor, but others are buying them.