Lincoln LS

lateralg

Ray,

Initially at the specified 30 PSI. Now at 29; still unacceptable ... to me. Almost as harsh as my Mustang GT.

rgnmstr

I run 32 in my 2002 V8 Sport. Thwe ride is just fine. I think the 114" wheelbase makes up for any harshness that the Sport suspension might add.

the_necroscope

I'm currently running my LS at 38 psi, yes, three-eight, and I'm very surprised how little the ride has changed from 30 psi. I'm still very happy and comfortable during my 35 minute commute.

Re: Conti vs. LS

That LS is overpriced. I payed 22K for a '00 V8 Sport in '02 that had 25K miles. You should be able to work them down to ~19K. If not, move on.

marsha7

Thanks to all who responded, I am grateful for feedback...

akirby: you mentioned the test a few years ago, but I do not know if they drove those hours in an LS or Continental...which is it???...:):):)

pat

I'm happy to reopen the Continental discussion if anyone would like me to do so. It archived itself after 45 days of inactivity - there is no intent for it to be stay shut down if folks want to post in it. Just let me know.

marsha7

I remember in this board a few years ago, much of the posting was about tranny shifting troubles, and it was solved by either reprogramming the module or replacing the module, and most who did either felt their tranny problem was solved...since I may be looking at 2000/2001 used models, is this something to look out for, or is it fair to assume that most have been repaired (i.e. has there been a recall on them?)...also, in case it falls to 2 vehicles, LS V8 or LS V8 Sport, what would the differences be between the two, aside from thicker sway bars on the Sport??? Are the interiors any different between them, are the seats any different, or is it just a suspension difference, and would the Sport have markings on it to identify it as a Sport???...so many questions...:):):)

akirby

It was the LS - sorry for not making that clear!

Sport vs. Base

Sport models have monochrome bumpers (no chrome), 17" wheels, different shocks and sway bars, SST shifter (manual tranny shifting), leather steering wheel and shifter.

Base model has chrome strip bumpers, 16" wheels, standard shifter, wood steering wheel and shifter.

The only other difference is the audiophile stereo system on the sport due to weight issues and CAFE. Early 2000s had the full system, late 2000s could not even be ordered with the audiophile stereo and for 2001 they offered it but without the subwoofers (and maybe different door speakers). A base V8 would either have the standard stereo or the full blown Audiophile with subs.

The dealer can check and see if the reflash was applied or not. If it shifts ok don't worry about it. If not you could check and maybe get it reflashed.

rgnmstr

The V8 Sport also has an oil cooler and a few other goodies that I can't remember at the moment.

rgnmstr

Just brought my new 2003 V8 Sport home. During the brief drive the additional 28HP was noticable. Not that I ran it thru the gears. It just seemed more efortless. I still believe in a little break in period before you go crazy. Car was extreemly tight and quiet. New exhaust note is great. NAV system is fun. $33.8K ... don't know why anybody would buy a 3 Series. I wouldn't mind having a 740 but...... I still feel the LS has to be the bargain of the century. In the past century the Pantera was the all time bargain at $9999. I missed that one.

jerrym3

I came very close to buying one of the last Contis, but I couldn't find a black one with black or tan interior bucket seat interior. The price was just too darn good to pass up: about 42K list, 28K pay (rebates plus Ford A plan). As for resale, ICCL (I couldn't care less).

The one I drove was a pretty impressive car, if luxury is what you are after. But, I would never consider any Conti without the Driver Select System, which provided three different levels of shock adjustments.

While it was no sports car, it did take bumps better in the "firm" mode, and, with a 275 HP, 4 valve per cylinder engine, was not a slouch. (I made it a point to drive over the same road in "firm" vs "normal" modes, and there was a difference.)

No LS, but it was never supposed to be.

chartrand

Different brake pads as well with the sport having a harsher lining.
Sport has select shift tranny.

rgnmstr

Anyone know the best way to remove those bugs that really get attached to front bumpers and won't come off with normal washing? Thanks.

nvbanker

Personally, I would not be afraid of either of the two cars, in the years you mentioned. They should both be excellent. The Continental will be a more value for the dollar car, because it's discontinued and goes fairly cheaply now, but was a wow car if you like it. The interior was too cramped for me, but the LS is a bit that way for me too. I like more room. They are totally different cars from soup to nuts, and you should drive them both, consider them both, and choose the one you like best. In Atlanta, land of little snow, I'd lean toward the LS, but the Conti sounds like a great deal.

rgnmstr

I'd buy a MKVIII before I bought the fancy Taurus.

nvbanker

while a great car, was a "fancy T-Bird" underneath, with more motor. And 98 was the last of that breed, sadly.

AND, I agree with whoever above said, the LS should have been the replacement Continental. I still hate the LS designation. Not enough cache.

rgnmstr

<<<<<<<AND, I agree with whoever above said, the LS should have been the replacement Continental. I still hate the LS designation. Not enough cache. >>>>>>>>.

   In my humble opinion I think Lincoln has dropped the ball from the beginning on marketing the LS. Yes, the LS designation is stupid and non memorable. How many cars out there include LS models. A zillion. The car could have been called the LS 3.0 & LS 3.9 to coinside with engine size and they could have added an 'S' after the numbers to designate a Sport model.
   Advertising has just reciently started to portray the car as a performance sedan. Most people have never even heard of the car when I mention what I drive. Their usual response is "I wouldn't want to drive a car that big" refering to the Town Car. All too bad because the car is one of the best values on the road. I own 2.

akirby

Try BUG and tar remover.

Originally they were called the LS6 and LS8 but Toyota complained it was too close to the LS400 and made them change it. Mainly because Ford made Toyota change their T-150 to Tundra because it was too close to F-150. Or something like that.

rgnmstr

<<<Originally they were called the LS6 and LS8 but Toyota complained it was too close to the LS400 and made them change it.>>>>

I've heard that story before but from what I've always heard it's pretty hard for a manufacture to "claim" a number. Plus how could Toyota claim a number is "close" Hell anything might be construed as "close" Finally since I heard that story I've noticed there are lots of model numbers out there that are the same or "close"

akirby

They don't have to 'claim' a number. Ford argued that T-150 was too close to F-150 and that consumers would be confused. I don't think it went to court - I think Ford told them to change it or they would take it to court, and some folks think the LS6/8 thing was just retaliation and that it wouldn't have happened without the T-150 problem.

Whether the courts would have ruled it as trademark infringement or not is a good question. I don't think either case made it that far.

gkarg

Bugs were really bad this year in NW PA.

I've bought and used those little net-wrapped sponges to clean the bugs - when using with regular car wash soap.

Remember that bug & tar also strips the wax - so you'll have to rewax the front where you spray - or the next batch of bugs will be sticking to the clearcoat.

omnipresent

I was wondering if anyone had recently purchase a new LS v8, with a sticker around 42k what they had paid with all the discounts that are currently being given. Or tell me what the price you paid was versus the sticker price.

div2

FWIW, The first generation 911 was originally called "901", but Peugeot objected because at that time their numbering system used a zero in the middle- 404, 505, etc. And you think the guys in Ford's marketing department are clueless these days? Well, back in 1982 the model name of the 5.0 HO Mustang was going to be "SS" until someone finally pointed out that GM had used that term for two decades. Too bad; we might have seen a "Boss 305" Camaro soon after...

rgnmstr

In answer to your question I just took delivery of a 2003 V8 Sport that had along with the Sport stuff a moonroof, rear park assist, Advance Trac and the THX/NAV package. MSRP/sticker was $45.8K and I paid $33.8K. $12K off!!! $6K in rebates and the dealer discounted $6K. I would have never opted for the NAV package @ $3K if it were not for this deal. Another poster on this group has been talking to dealers trying to duplicate the deal and no dealer will match the price or I should say give him $12K off. He may not be looking at similar cars. The dealer where I bought had 1 more 2003 left. It is a 6 cylinder and it too has the THX/NAV package. It has a sticker of $42.5 or so and he is selling it at $11K off. Good luck.

slunar

omnipresent - are you talking about an '03 or and '04 LS. rgnmster got about the best deal I've heard of. I'd guess that rgnmster's dealer dug into their holdback to give him that price and there must have been some dealer cash.

I'd say that right now you should be able to get about $10K off of a 2003 V6 and $11K off of a 2003 V8, including both rebates and dealer discount.

If you are talking about a 2004, you're probably looking at more like $6K off a V6 and $7K off a V8 (again rebates + discount). You may want to look at the RCO program, with is the "fake" lease or baloon payment purchase. There may be extra rebates with that program.

v8lincolnguy

Seems I remember reading that as well about Lexus not liking the Lincoln LS6 and LS8 monikers. Wonder if they would have complained about LS VI and LS VIII.

v8lincolnguy

I replaced the four stock speakers in my LS yesterday and the improvment in sound is very noticeable. I bought 4 JBL 6x8s(GTO series) that I found on sale at Crutchfield for $59 a pair. The clarity is MUCH better and bass response is also less muddy than the stock speakers were. Car still could use a little more bass and I may consider a small sub down the road, but the new speakers really improvd things. Looking at the old speakers, I'm amazed Ford used such cheap speakers, especially with the Alpine radio.

nvbanker

Yes, I heard the same, and wondered at the time, why Ford cared what Toyota thought, and why they went ahead with the most innocuous moniker possible anyway...... (LS)

rgnmstr

<<<<Looking at the old speakers, I'm amazed Ford used such cheap speakers, especially with the Alpine radio.>>>>>>>.

I believe those cheap speakers are also from Alpine. Alpine is not the high tech company most people think. They are more or less just a marketing company. They spend squat on R&D. They never invent anything, they are never first with anything, there product is no better than average. What they do do is limit the amount of dealers they have so those dealers are able to sell at a higher profit because they face less competition therefore they "talk it up" as beeing better.

lobsenza

The 01 V8 Sport had poor door speakers and no subwoofer available.

chartrand

Couldn't agree with you more. I was brought in to referee a pointing match between two departments that were blaming each other for defects. My bottom line to them was that if they didn't quit fighting and solve the problem that there wouldn't be anything left to fight over. I recently received a note from an engineer at that site. She said the factory was closing by years end with production moving to Mexico. Quality won't improve there, but it's cheaper to make mistakes and you can throw a lot of bodies at the repairs . It's not only our LS that has these systems. The lines I worked on built for Honda, BMW and Mercedes as well.

v8lincolnguy

I remember up until a few years ago, Ford used JBL speakers for their uplevel audio systems, anyone know if those were better than the Alpine speakers they have been using for the past few years? I've never been a big fan of Alpine as I thought their stuff was overrated and overpriced. The speakers in my LS had "Ford" stamped on the back of the magnet and had paper whizzer cones in them. Cheapo indeed.

akirby

I think only the head units were JBL or Alpine, not necessarily the speakers. They probably buy the speakers from various mfrs based on who gives them the cheapest price. The THX system may (or may not) be the exception.

kenq

Has anyone replaced '03 speakers yet. I have an '03 V8 w/Alpine Audiophile & the 6 disc in dash changer. The speakers are very "average" compared to my former Bonnevilles. What are reccommended replacements and how difficult is the process?

erickpl

My neighbor bought a 300M this weekend and said he was cross shopping with a LS. I hope he meant the LS V6. I didn't really consider these two cars comparable. What do you guys think?

-Paul

rgnmstr

The 300M is just another boring front wheel drive car. He probably fell for the more features/accessories pitch that Chrysler always makes. I've had company cars from each of the big three over the years and while you may get a few more power options etc. for a given price with a Chrysler car the cars just fall apart. They are cheaply made.

erickpl

pretty much my take on it too. I have a Jeep GC and I love it, but I also realize it is a truck and not a luxury car. For what it is, it is great, but I just don't see the comparison between the RWD LS and the FWD Chryslers. He said something to the effect that these cars have almost the same features in them.

I had to laugh and go back to modding my daughter's Wrangler.

-Paul

slunar

I wouldn't exactly call a 300M a boring car, but its quite different from a LS. I test drove one a few years ago, I don't know if they've improved the 300M any in the past few years.

300M +++'s - big interior , big trunk, decent audio system.

300M - - -'s VERY crude compared to a LS, Lots of noise, lots of vibration, lots of harshness, lots of road noise, real harsh shifting trannie.

Bottom line, if you're looking for quiet, comfort & luxury, with great handling, you'd want a LS. If your looking for a FWD car with lots of room, has performance overtones, a bargain price and don't mind lots of NVH, then you should go with a 300M.

v8lincolnguy

If you think Lincoln resale is bad, check out Chrysler. The 300M is not a bad looking car and offers alot of features and decent performance for the price, but with a 250 hp V6 in a car that only weighs about 3600 lbs, it should be quicker than it is. My old Olds Intrigue only had a 215 hp V6 and was no more than 100 lbs lighter than a 300M, yet it was as quick as the 300. With an additional 35 or so horses, I would have expected the 300M to be a better performer. Between an LS V6 and a 300M, I'd pick the LS hands down. Make that LS a V8 and you'd be a fool to even ask me which one I'd pick.

babicka

This week my LS had the engine die on me 3-times so it is going to a dealer for checkup. When the car was brand new the car did it about 3 times in a year and always after a left turn and on a leveled straighaway at 30Mph or less.(Never up-hill) I also noticed that everytime it did that my gas gauge was 3/4 full or 1/4 full. After it dies it will not start up for anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes. I have tried the ignition key removal and re-insertion, but it makes no difference.

Today I did a left turn from a stop sign followed by a right turn about 50 yards away. After the right turn (speed 25Mph) the car continued straight for about 200 yards and stalled. I just did the search on "stalling" in all the posted messages to see if there is correlation. Anyone knows if Lincoln has a solution. My current guess is that it is a component in the fuel system. Each time this happened I was lucky that I noticed it and was able to stop the car safely. Now I am getting scared due to the random occurence and the fact that it is getting to be more frequent. Three times in a week is too...much!

lolaj42

When the LS owners club met with Lincoln officials in Dearborn this past July, we inquired about the stalling issue. My '00 LS 8 sport has stalled in the past, but only after completing an SCCA autocross course, and NEVER on a public road. My most recent stall was in May of this year, but I haven't found any correlation with fuel level or direction I'm turning in (it's happened about a dozen times while autocrossing). My car ALWAYS starts right up immediately after the stall without hesitation.

The response the LS owners club was given by the Lincoln officials was that a TSB would be issued in the near future, though the timing was dictated by EPA certification testing as the solution involves a new PCM reflash which somehow affects both mileage and emissions ratings. We were told that the solution involved the management of several engine operational parameters, coupled with the fact that fuel mixtures/blends (oxygenated blends such as MTBE and ethanol) vary sufficiently over the country where a combination of several factors lead to these stalls.

I was just at one of the most sophisticated and modern Lincoln Mercury dealerships in the country (North Scottsdale LM, Arizona) yesterday to take care of a few minor things, but was told that no TSB has been (recently) issued to address engine stalling. They even made several phone calls on my behalf (both the Service Manager and the Shop Foreman know of my relationship and contacts with Lincoln/Ford engineers) to investigate the matter further, but to no avail.

Rest assured, Lincoln is aware of this problem, and something is in the works, but no word yet on when this PCM reflash will be released. I'm eagerly awaiting it myself.

akirby

Chris - that doesn't sound like the same issue since his won't immediately restart. I would assume it's different just to be safe.

What are the no start symptoms? Does it turn over but not start or does it do nothing? If it does nothing it could be a problem with the PATS security system. I forgot what the workaround was but it involved jiggling or moving something around the keyhole on the dash - loose wire or connection.

lolaj42

Allen - From babicka's post, it sounded as if he might have a combination of problems . . . the stalling problem that I, and others have had with (mostly) the 2000 model year LS, AND the no-start problem. The no-start problem is also a somewhat complicated issue and has similar characteristics as a flooded carburator . . . that is, you need to floor the gas pedal and continue to crank the starter until the engine finally fires.

Much of the stalling symptoms though, do sound similar to those expressed by me, and others. Also, the stalling problem doesn't seem to affect as many people (I haven't heard from more than about 6 other people that have experienced and engine stall - on this, or any other forum). The stall usually occurs at a low speed after a rapid deceleration. In any event, engine stalling and no/hard-starts should not be occuring and solutions have either already been identified (no/hard-starts) or will be available soon (stalling).

I only know of one owner that had a no-start problem related to the Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS), and you are correct in that the solution turned out to be a poor electrical connection behind the ignition switch in the dash.

babicka

The engine will crank no problem after the stall, however there seems to be no spark/ignition at all
and yes the characteristics are as a flooded carburator . . . but stepping down on the gas and flooring the gas pedal awhile cranking the starter will not get the engine going. The secret is the waiting time. After the wait time it starts right up on the first crank. The most frustrating part is the non-starting condition, otherwise one could probably live with the stalling.The next trick to try is to always run with the A/C on and see if that helps any. All my stalls have been with A/C turned off. A/C on does increase the idle speed of the engine. Just a note that I keep Advanced-TC switch always on. This time after starting the computer made the famous mystery beep with no message on the display.

lolaj42

I believe there is an acknowledged solution to the No/hard start problem. Like the impending- stalling solution, I'm pretty sure it involves a Powertrain Control Module (PCM) reflash. The no/hard start problem is caused when the exhaust valve on the first cylinder to fire upon restart is left open, and no compression can take place . . . hence no ignition. The reflash prevents the engine from stopping with exhaust valves open on the cylinder that will fire first upon subsequent re-start. I'm sure there's more to the solution than what I've described, but I've not had this particular problem and my recollection of the solution isn't complete. However, check with your dealer to see if this is true and a TSB can solve your no-start problem or whether I'm just dreaming this stuff up! ;-) Hope that helps.

pat

if a TSB exists, there are a couple of good folks hanging out in our Technical Service Bulletins discussion who can get the details for you.

pab5

I have a 2000 Lincoln LS sport and really like the new Xenon headlamps and rear lights on the newer model. Has any one heard or know if these improvements can be retrofitted to older models?

babicka

Lolaj42 thank you for the input! I have just purchased sort of a "life insurance policy for 12,000 miles or 1 year" on the stalling issue. Cost ~$300.00 My LM dealer gave me "NHTSA item number SB612420, service bulletin number 8221" solution to the problem, after he told me that he had lot more info than the printout I gave him covering all the info on stalling from this LS-message board discussions group. Looks like the tranny fluid and filter change will do the trick.If it does not my wife and her lawyer will have fun with Bill Ford after I am gone! (-: I still strongly feel that this is a design defect and should be repaired free of charge to the customer!

lolaj42

While properly maintained tranny fluid levels are absolutely critical to trouble-free operation, the stalling problem that I'm familiar with, and the one that Lincoln is addressing, relates to a PCM reflash.

Good luck to you, and I sincerely hope that whatever your dealer did for you takes care of the stalling once and for all. It's not been a bothersome problem for me, even though my car has stalled on more than a dozen occasions, but it's apparently been a real headache for others. Like I stated earlier, my car has only stalled when involved in a particular, and non-typical circumstances . . . SCCA Solo II autocrossing. Apparently, others have experienced stalls while exiting highway off-ramps, which COULD be dangerous if not handled properly. I'm confident that the solution I'm looking for will be addressed in a TSB authorized PCM reflash in the near future. Stay tuned.

babicka

The invoice items for the stalling repair are:
1)WDS-System check
2)PCM-Reprogramming and test
3)Tranny new screen and 5QT-mercon fluid
Parts total cost$54 and Labor total cost $214
I also noticed that due to reflash the engine idle is little higher ~600 RPM. Again I hope that for anyone that is having the same problem this repair does the it and makes stalling a history!

lolaj42

Have you ever had your 2000 LS 8 reflashed? I had mine reflashed once before, about 4 months after I purchased it new in January 2000. The reflash I had done was to improve the time it took to shift from Park to Reverse, and from Reverse to Drive. I think there are other reasons to reflash the PCM as well because the PCM controls so many aspects of the car. If the PCM reflash you had performed specifically relates to fixing the stalling condition, I'd be very interested to know how I can direct my dealer to perform the same reflash on my car. Can you get this information from your dealer, or send me an email with name and address of your dealer so I can inquire myself?