Yeah, you do have to get out of the warranty period to experience real ownership costs. Good point. I'm experiencing them on my Explorer and my Civic, but not my Navigator or Mountaineer as of yet.
I did experience my last Navigator well past he warranty period (drove it to 65,000 miles) and never had to put a dime beyond routine service into it - oh, and tires. Depreciation on the car over 4.5 years was $18,000, from sales price to sales price.
What is the "fail safe" cooling the LS brochure refers to? Does it mean any additional protection from the LS overheating... especially in this desert heat? Is it a common feature on 2003 cars?
Is there a "loyalty incentive" for people who own old beater Lincolns who get a 2003 LS?
sawmill, the resale value actually has more to do with the future incentive on the same model than current incentive amount. Look at 2000 LS owners. They bought theirs with little to none incentive, they will get hit hard if they want to sell theirs NOW. As to 2-3 years down the road, unless Ford offers even more (8k+) rebate on new LS at the time I want to sell, my "real life depreciation" won't be bad.
no1trust, the "fail safe cooling", IIRC, refers to a feature that allows the car to run (safely to the engine" 50 miles after a complete cooling system failure, i.e. all the coolant leaked out. I have no idea what other cars have it. I would think it would be more common on luxury models than mass market ones, just like the "running flat" tires.
Had a look at it today at it's official unveiling. As you know it wasn't offered for 03. Nice touches, nothing over the top. The one we saw was in the vivid red with chrome flat spoke wheels.
it actually kicked in when my thermostat was malfunctioning. Temperature went rapidly up -- and engine quickly cut power and message signal gave warning that engine power was reduced.
What is amazing is how fast the temperature shot up! Of course, I did not try to limp home - but shut the engine off immediately. Fortunately, the thermostat "unstuck" so normal temperature control was restored. Mechanic checked the computer log, and instantly knew it was the thermostat.
Yup, the future incentives will affect resale price. But so will supply and demand. We have these incentives now 'cause Lincoln made too many 2003's. If you don't believe me -- look at the incentives on Aston Martins.
Too many cars in the market means the value is pushed down. Lowering the price on new LS's will also push the price down, but so will a large supply of unsold used cars, in the used car market (how many people choose between a new LS vs. a used LS?).
Yes, after many months of trying, somebody told me about the button on the Genie that I had to push, that syncs the rotating code with the homelink. Doing that, and following the instructions in the manual did it. Works every time now, and works very well from the mailbox down the street. Haven't yet got it to work on the gate though.....maybe I'll try again someday.
Sorry. Wish I was adding something that would shore up the value of this great automobile but alas I am not. But I do hope that I can help with the cars image. I will try to waste as few pixels as possible here but first I would just like to say that this is a fine car and do not hold Lincoln in contempt for the lack vigor this car obviously has. I love my Double-Oh, insert pun, for it is a beauty but lacks the thorn required to prick the competition. They were just trying to cater to their long time market and they know who they are. We pass many of them daily usually with some sort of hand gesture. Any way I digress right in to the waste of valuable pixels.
It just doesn't make any of its competitors say ouch, well except when it is next to the curb.
In short this is what I aspire to do to my Sloop. I can't get the thought out of my testosterone saturated grey matter of having a Mustang Cobra 00 or newer power plant firmly ensconced under the hood. Of course it would be bolted on to thier 6 speed manual along with a drive shaft and rear end replacement.
I asked my wife for a Ducati 999 and was denied as expected but this was by design because my absolute intention all along was to get her so worked up about my not having a bike that what ever I asked for next would most certainly be approved. So now I have the blessings of my CFO and am ready to go shopping but really do not know where to start.
I now open the floor to this perverse concept in hopes that out here in cyberspace someone shares this fervor of sick modifications.
I have a 2000V8 and drove the car on a long trip and heard the audible tone sound twice during the day as I was driving. No other indicators appeared. Been to the dealer way to many times on other issues all ready. Has any one have any ideas or insight before I re visit my home away from home?thanks, congarobert
aka "mystery beeps" actually fairly common. I get one every 2-3 months or so. There's likely nothing wrong, a dealer trip will probably be a waste of time. Other owners state they have read a brief message having something to do with gear select error or something. Someone else may recall what the message center actually reads during that brief period of time. I believe I've read on another board that all model years thru even the 03's can do this. You'd think Lincoln could figure it out and eliminate it.
I've yet to experience a mystery beep in my '03 and I've not read of any other instances in an '03 either. I used to get them periodically in my '00. I think the issue has been resolved, intentionally or otherwise.
Lincoln has not solved this issue as it's too random for them to track. We were told this while talking to them last week. I had it 3 times in one day while driving from Detroit to Dallas on Friday. In our caravan to Detroit at least one car per day would chime in. Lincoln say it gives the car personality.
Some have asked about the resent changes in warranty, and complimentary service warranties. Here's the changes for this year MY 2004 Lincolns.
The changes:
* Lincoln owners will receive complimentary oil changes, tire rotations and inspections for one year or 12,000 miles, down from three years, 36,000 miles. Parts such as wiper blades, spark plugs and engine belts will not be replaced.
* Emergency roadside assistance will be limited to four years and 50,000 miles. Through 2003, there had been no mileage limit.
* Emergency travel reimbursement, destination assistance and trip planning service have been eliminated from the program.
* The Lincoln Commitment package is no longer transferable to other owners.
I'm looking for a Lux sport sedan and have been reading with great interest about the LS V8.
I currently own a BMW 3 Series (AWD) and my first thought was a new 530i. I've read about the LS beating out the 540 with performance issues.
I've test driven the LS and it feels really big compared to what I'm used to. But my key criteria are: comfortable yet enthusiastic drive, acceleration, handling, luxury, space for 4 easily, and RWD/AWD.
I'm looking at: G35 Sedan BMW 530i Lincoln LS V8 Cadillac?
Anybody care to offer up their comparisons? My purchase probably isn't until early next year, so I have time, but any personal experiences would be appreciated.
that's not encouraging. I recoil at Lincoln being compared to Buick but things like this will go a long way toward eliminating the value proposition of the Lincoln brand. The bean counters are winning again...
erickpl I had a leased 2000 LS V8, and have been looking at a replacement. I have test driven all the cars you mentioned and keep coming back to the LS V8.
First, the LS V8 is significantly bigger than not only a 3 Series, but it is also larger than a 5 Series, sort of half way between the 5 and 7 series, so it definately feels bigger than a 3 series.
If I had a 3 series, I think I'd be dissappointed going to a G35. Don't get me wrong, the G35 is very sporty feeling and it is pretty darned fast, which is why a lot of the car rags love it. But it's ergonomics are horrible and it feels like the G35 is inherently unstable. I test drove 2 of them and both hopped sideways pretty bad when cornering over bumps. CR mentioned this and another car rag, was either Autoweek or C & D advised never to drive it with the stability system off. The G35 lacks some of the luxury items and its rear seats don't fold down. A G35 Coupe would be a fun 2nd car to have, but I think I'd get tired of a G35 as a daily driver pretty fast.
530i is still a very nice car, but expensive. At street price equivalently equipped it will run $10K - $12K more than a LS V8. It also is smaller than a LS and for me has a pretty small trunk, all depends what size car you really want and need. The 530 is still the standard and you're going to pay for it, especially when you ad in higher sales tax, property tax (if you have it) and higher insurance.
The CTS was a bit of a disappointement. I'm sure the new 3.6L will help and it has a very nice auto trannie, but I just did not warm up to driving it. It has a very high belt line, which made me feel like I was sitting in a bath tub. You can option yourself to death on a CTS everything is an option including the fold down rear seats. The interior looks and feels like it belongs on a $20K car not a $35K car. Of the 4 cars you mentioned, I found the CTS is the least fun and least rewarding to drive.
If money was no object I might consider a 530i, keeping in mind that new version of the 5 series will be out this fall. But I keep coming back to the LS, especially given its street price. The Lincoln LS may not excel and any one thing, but overal it's still a fun car to drive and it has the best all around combination of Luxury and Performance.
Nvbanker, yes I'm not very happy about that complimentary program being cancelled> the thinking behind it was "Well, in those 3 years those cars do not really need more than 4 oil changes, and the bulk of maintenence doesn't occur after that"... Whereas my thinking was "At least the person keeps coming back, and chances are you can address any warranty issues without creating a backlog of reservations, and get them comfortable with the dealer".
Yes, I agree. For the $20 it costs to do the oil change, the perceived value and incentive to return to the dealer is worth it, but the boys back in Dearborn are looking at a ledger, and can save a buck & a half by cutting the programs here and there. It's like taking water coolers out of the office and cancelling magazine subscriptions...it looks good, feels like you're saving money, but it's a bad long term strategy.
On top of the amenities on the service side, they are also starting to sneak things out of the car. In our face to face discussions with Lincoln last week, we were told the rain sensing wipers have disappeared because no one knew how to use them! Pop the hood on an 03 and you'll see covers missing on struts and various modules that have been there from the beginning. They're missing the big picture when they try and pull fast ones on customers. Of course if the majority of buyers are blue haired little old ladies, then they can yank the engine and no one will notice.
The engine compartment is one of the easiest places to cut costs, but then again, how often is a Lincoln buyer really going to get dirty and nasty and do maintenence on it? So those things are taken into consideration when cost cutting comes into play.
Buttons are so different for people. Take my wife. She had keyless entry on her 94 Cougar. When the 96 Cougar came out, the keypad was gone. She made me buy her 94 out of the lease for that reason alone! It's a total deal breaker for her. And if Ford is the only company that makes keypads for the door, she'll drive Fords the rest of her life! She would like a Jag S type, but with no keypad, forget it. So, what they decontent out will hit her there, but believe me, what's missing from the engine bay will never be missed by her. Or, probably by me.
Hmm, how about keyless entry systems like MB's which have Smart key, and if you have the credit card/key transponder on you, your able to open the doors and start the engine without the need of a key? $1000 Option....
Apparently, according to BON, the decontenting now includes not painting some items. Like the back seat frames of Expeditions and Navigators. Results? Seat frames are already beginning to rust and Ford must now pay dealers to remove/paint/replace the seats. The original business case to leave out the paint? Saves $1.11 per car. Brilliant, huh? Course now they also gotta come up with $$Millions of dollars to pay Magic Johnson to say he likes Lincolns. Brilliant, huh? Probly gonna start leaving out the back seats altogether to pay for MJ.
Hey, they all got make a profit, or they go the way of Nash..... The whole idea of decontenting is to make it transparent to the customer, or at least, to make it an issue that is so insignificant that it won't cost sales. So not painting an interior part ought to be ok. Sometimes things don't work out quite so well. But I remember how GM made seats for my 80's Cadillacs that were painted inside, but were so thinly reinforced, that my large friend would bend the seat permanently back if he sat in the car. Happened in 3 of my GM cars. I'd rather them not paint.....
I suggest a detailed comparison of features and their importance to you. It's important to look closely in order to find some that would add greatly to your satisfaction. Example: The LS power seat cushion tilt is independent of the seat back. The 'easy entry', adjustable pedals, ... the car has a long list.
And above all, drive each car in the conditions you use most. Notice that the LS is laser-straight on X-way cruising, even in gusting winds. When you set it into a corner, road surface irregularities do not affect your line AT ALL. Try a panic stop on all the vehicles you're considering, and note the amount of nose-dive.
And, if you're a techie, look at the underside of the LS. You'll see a very unique suspension system, the engineering of which explains its outstanding driving characteristics.
The LS is a driver's car that also carrys three more people in quiet luxury.
nvbanker: "not painting ought to be OK" ??? trying not to be disrepectful, but wouldn't you rather NOT have rust on the seats? Why would u give Ford a free pass to save a buck by affecting the quality and life of your vehicle? To me this kind of nickel/dime beancounting is horribly counter-productive. If Bill Ford thinks he can save the company doing this, well, he ought to "Look again."
I was once in your shoes. In 99 money was an object for me. So when it came time to choose I was going to get the most bang for my buck. I had ruled out bmw, benz, volvo and audi. I was dead set on getting a lexus GS. Then I stumbled across the Lincoln LS.
My criteria for choosing my car was based on the following: 4 door sedan, safety, performance, semi lux to luxury, under $45K. I visited the dealership several times and enjoyed the test drives. Sure the 0-60, on the LS, wasn't the best but it satisfied my appetite. The emergency stop test was impressive though. 60-0 in a straight line without nose diving! I really felt in control. Having been in a bad tractor trailer accident, 3 years earlier, I knew what the benefits of that extra ounce of protection were. It was till about a month after I bought the LS till i was able to get on to the interstate and see what kind of cruise ride and passing power it had. This car has amazing passing abilities. The handling is fantastic! We have an old 5 mile road near my home that has more twists, turns, ups and downs then you could imagine. Using the select shift in 3rd gear it was perfect. Press on the gas once you were in that banking turn and you pushed right through the curve! It was the best roller coaster ride ever! Back to the safety part. If you look at different insurance agency and their polls on the safest cars to drive you will see that the Lincoln LS has been in the top 5 every year.
I know times have changed and there are new models that weren't available 4 years ago. But that car left a lasting impression on me. It would be very difficult to get me to sway from the LS V8 sport. If money was no option well... maybe the Maclaren version of the LS.
ps the LS was my first American car. others were Japanese or European.
Thanks for your input. It is really appreciated. I guess my apprehension is with the American stigma and buying essentially a Ford product. From my reading on here, I have to wonder how committed Ford/LM really is.
I have a Honda and Jeep as well. My concerns about the American quality make me wonder, but with a car 4 model years into production, I would think most kinks have been resolved. My E46 3 Series is a 2002 and 3 or so years into that model. It's been solid as a rock. My Honda Si is a typical Honda. My Jeep, my only American car, has had some issues. My Pontiac had issues as well. So I guess my only reservation is with the American quality stigma.
Has anybody used the nav system in the LS? How about the THX stereo? In my test drive, I thought the stereo was very full sounding, but I'm by no means an audiophile.
"Ford isn’t sure which direction Lincoln is headed — except it’s not chasing Cadillac into the stratosphere. by Joseph Szczesny"
That has been the problem for years. When the LS first came out and people were paying sticker or more (that's when I bought mine btw) Lincoln didn't know what to do. How to market the car or who to appeal to or even how to get the dealers to order it and sell it. IMO, Bill Ford has done a poor job so far. First Lincoln was a PAG brand, then it wasn't. It would be sold over seas, then not. It just goes on and on. The same article says the Aviator will be out of production by the 2005 model. And don't forget that hot seller the Blackwood. I will be hesitant to get another Jaguar when my lease is up as I feel Ford will screw up that brand too!
Two unique opportunities presented themselves to me last week that allowed me to test the LS to its limits. One was a visit to Fords Romeo proving grounds. We were allowed to "flog" the 03 LS in both V6 and V8 versions of two test tracks, accompanied by professional drivers. What was interesting is one course was flooded with an inch of water. We were taught to drive to the limits of traction with advance track on and then with it off. I don't think a single driver made it trough the course without incident with advance track off. Then again, that's what we were supposed to do. It made a believer out of everyone who drove that day.
The next event was for us to race (yes race) our LS's at a race track. We first went out with professional racing drivers who taught us breaking points and apex entry, exit etc. Then it was off to the races (literally). It's one thing to see a race car lose it but seeing a fellow members $40K LS pulling a 360 on the front straight is quite another matter. I lost mine entering the back straight too aggressively and got sideways at around 80 mph. I caught it but also realized that in a normal car, I would have been on the roof. Both experiences of driving this car near its limits takes you to a level you would never understand otherwise. Then we hopped in and drove 1376 non stop miles from Detroit back to Dallas and felt great when we got home. Well done Lincoln!
The Denso/NavTech combination is considered by many to be the best automotive navigation system. I recently sold my 2001 Lexus GS 430 (with navigation system) in order to buy an '03 Lincoln LS with nav.
They are both good systems, but the LS is significantly better. One reason is that it has voice control (both nav. & audio). It also has MANY more points of interests. The LS has 72 recognized voice commands (only 22 documented in the owner's manual) Some examples are: "Rest Area", "Auto service", "Golf course", "School", "University" ...
I'm not an audiophile, so I have to report second-hand information. My wife says the THX in the LS is better than the Lexus Mark Levinson. My grandkids say "Wow, the sound seems to be coming from EVERYWHERE".
Another factor with the nav/sound system is the ease of changing CDs. With the LS, the nav screen moves out of the way to reveal the 6-CD loader. Changing a CD is easily done at a stoplight. Not so with the glovebox-mounted changer in the Lexus.
I wonder if you're off your meds, DG, you seem to be a bit cranky! Look, it was Jacques Nasser who put Lincoln in the PAG. Bill Ford took it back out, and moved headquarters back to Iceland (Michigan) from California (like, that is SO TOTALLY wierd, huh?) to get it on track to produce what it was best at. Lincoln has had the best success with rock-solid large cars, and some tweaked with power, (Mark & Continental) and the invention of the Luxury SUV, copied by EVERYONE now. The LS was the venture that was out of place, and surprisingly, it has done very well. But it really doesn't fit all that well into the niche of Lincoln. OTOH, it fills a void in their demographics, so it's not that out of place.
I do wish Lincoln would get focused..but for now, they fill my needs perfectly. Give Bill a chance. Nothing he does will really be noticed for 3 more years, except financially, which is noticed every single day.
In 1999 when the LS came out, the DOW was at 11,000, the NASDAQ at 6,000, several million American people who are now unemployed had jobs, the average incentive on all US cars was thousands less and the LS had 4 or 5 fewer competitors.
The Aviator is being replaced by a cross-over vehicle, which appears to be the where that market is headed. The Aviator has also gotten pretty good reviews on everything but its price.
If if were not for Ford buying Jaguar, Jag would have gone bankrupt and folded its doors. Jag quality in the 80's was an absolute joke. Ford has managed to save Jaguar, including its spirt while funding the development of vastly improved Jag cars with vastly better quality and reliability. The main thing Ford needs to do with Jag right now is gets Jag's production costs in line, (probably need to consoladate production in one plant) which is no easy feat given how protected jobs are in the UK.
The fact remains that the LS is a wonderful car which was not promoted or sold properly. I have a feeling that is one reason JR is no longer the marketing head. HE knew how to promote the car but was probably overruled.
You are absolutely right about the Jaguar purchase and ensuing Ford guidance. They are in fact doing some consolidating moving the Range Rover (Freelander I think) into the same plant as the XType which has a good quality rep and room for increased production.
I gotta wonder about all this. It costs a helluva lot of money to develop a new vehicle. And in Ford's case, at least during the jack (n)asser reign it took a helluva long time. So, what new vehicles has Ford done lately? Count em: T'Bird. Mercury Marauder. Lincoln Blackwood. Lincoln Aviator. These cars all share some things in common as I see it: 1) They all were criticised for being overpriced. 2) They all were compromised in some way by bean counters and this affected their acceptance in the marketplace and gave support to (1). 3) They all were victims of horrible marketing. Absolutely pathetic. 4) They all are now strongly rumoured to be going away in 2005. (Well, except the Blackwood:>)
Do I believe they're going away? Not that it matters, but I strongly doubt the Aviator will be dis'd in 2005. It's sales are not that bad. The Marauder? maybe. But a Supercharger would solve ALL the issues with that vehicle and make it a big success (IMHO) The TBird? Looks like it will go. (Does that affect the LS?) The Blackwood? - Yeah, I believe that one's a goner! :>)
So, Ford spends a HUGE amount of money creating these 4 vehicles. $$HUGE$$ Then the bean counters compromise them, eg: T'bird dash = LS dash. Come on, a little fresh thinking please. Aviator styling = Navigator styling. Not that that's real bad, but heck I can't tell em apart till I can read the nameplate. Also, some givens were left out of the luxury Aviator like power seatbacks and auto-dimming mirrors. Lots of folks complaining about those. Merc Marauder - a muscle car without the muscle? What's up with that? WHY did they do that? Lincoln Blackwood - No 4WD offered. For starters ..
So I wonder long and hard why Ford can afFord to develop these cars, yet can't afFord to go the last mile to make the cars unique and at least marketable, if not best in class, can't seem to afFord to spend any $$$ to market them intelligently and can't or won't at least keep quiet about their potential early demise.
And the early demise is the most puzzling of all. Hell, except for the T'Bird, all of these vehicles were given death sentences within about a year of their introduction! The T'Bird closer to 2 years. Is this a better idea? Except for the Blackwood, these vehicles could and should be big successes with a few more $$$s for mktg and a wee bit more on the vehicles themselves. Instead, they throw in the towel?
I wonder, does Bill Ford have nightmares about the Edsel?
Yes it'll be replaced on a modified, next generation (C1) Focus platform. The current Freelander leaves little to be desired in terms of reliability and dependability, but the next generation will be geared head on to the new BMW X3 that will soon debut. Ironically, over in Europe, the Freelander is the segment leader.
Lincolns issue has been it's lack of focus (not the car). Everytime it's headed in a direction, new management comes in and alters it. Let's take into account that everytime new management comes in, it's 2-3 years before we see progress or results. So consider the current situation to be the after effects of the plans of few years back. It's not till another 2 years where we'll see new results of todays plan, as in 2-3 new vehicles for Lincoln. But it's definatly headed in a positive direction.
Same as Mercury. Now with Elena Ford giving it some direction, Mercury's mission will not be altered anytime soon, and if there were another game plan to occur, it will not enter managements head till the next 4 years.
Marketing a car is a team effort -- putting together that team is an art, with a lot of luck thrown in. Jim Rogers was (is?) a driver, as well as an exec, and he spoke to the enthusiast. He used to tell us how once they moved out to Irvine, Lincoln could do things that just couldn't be done back in Detroit, because of the Automtive Executive culture back there.
The "focus" we saw in 2000 was Lincoln building up grass-roots positive good word of mouth about the LS -- from the enthusiasts and trade publications that had credibility -- rather than reliance on massive hype and ad buys (not that they skimped on that, either). Now the product line is launched - and they feel they have reached all the "drivers" they can -- so they are trying to broaden the market to appeal to non-enthusiasts (move a lot of cars to those old-timers who objected the LS did not have a compass -- or overcome the car renters who objected to the storage space and interior room.
Enthusiasts alone don't make a successful mass-produced car. Right now, Detroit decided low prices is the way to move vehicles -- along with a hyped up sticker price and a massive, advertised "one time only" rebate.
The September R&T has an article predicting that the new Continental will be built on the DEW 98 platform-with styling very similar to that of the concept car and including the suicide doors. The article goes on to mention that the LS will either be heavily restyled(to match the "new" Lincoln design cues)or discontinued. LS, say hello to Capri I, Capri II, XR4, and Scorpio...
Comments
I did experience my last Navigator well past he warranty period (drove it to 65,000 miles) and never had to put a dime beyond routine service into it - oh, and tires. Depreciation on the car over 4.5 years was $18,000, from sales price to sales price.
Is there a "loyalty incentive" for people who own old beater Lincolns who get a 2003 LS?
no1trust, the "fail safe cooling", IIRC, refers to a feature that allows the car to run (safely to the engine" 50 miles after a complete cooling system failure, i.e. all the coolant leaked out. I have no idea what other cars have it. I would think it would be more common on luxury models than mass market ones, just like the "running flat" tires.
Nice touches, nothing over the top. The one we saw was in the vivid red with chrome flat spoke wheels.
I know it's there on the V8, but I'm not so sure about the 6. Hope it is, since that's what I've got.
What is amazing is how fast the temperature shot up! Of course, I did not try to limp home - but shut the engine off immediately. Fortunately, the thermostat "unstuck" so normal temperature control was restored. Mechanic checked the computer log, and instantly knew it was the thermostat.
Too many cars in the market means the value is pushed down. Lowering the price on new LS's will also push the price down, but so will a large supply of unsold used cars, in the used car market (how many people choose between a new LS vs. a used LS?).
I know someone who had a GS-430, paid $48K for it and one year later he had a hard time selling it and finally had to settle for $40K.
I don't know exactly how many days he had it, but I'm sure it ended up being over $20 / day in depreciation.
It just doesn't make any of its competitors say ouch, well except when it is next to the curb.
In short this is what I aspire to do to my Sloop. I can't get the thought out of my testosterone saturated grey matter of having a Mustang Cobra 00 or newer power plant firmly ensconced under the hood. Of course it would be bolted on to thier 6 speed manual along with a drive shaft and rear end replacement.
I asked my wife for a Ducati 999 and was denied as expected but this was by design because my absolute intention all along was to get her so worked up about my not having a bike that what ever I asked for next would most certainly be approved. So now I have the blessings of my CFO and am ready to go shopping but really do not know where to start.
I now open the floor to this perverse concept in hopes that out here in cyberspace someone shares this fervor of sick modifications.
-Don't give up the ship.
I had it 3 times in one day while driving from Detroit to Dallas on Friday. In our caravan to Detroit at least one car per day would chime in. Lincoln say it gives the car personality.
The changes:
* Lincoln owners will receive complimentary oil changes, tire rotations and inspections for one year or 12,000 miles, down from three years, 36,000 miles. Parts such as wiper blades, spark plugs and engine belts will not be replaced.
* Emergency roadside assistance will be limited to four years and 50,000 miles. Through 2003, there had been no mileage limit.
* Emergency travel reimbursement, destination assistance and trip planning service have been eliminated from the program.
* The Lincoln Commitment package is no longer transferable to other owners.
I currently own a BMW 3 Series (AWD) and my first thought was a new 530i. I've read about the LS beating out the 540 with performance issues.
I've test driven the LS and it feels really big compared to what I'm used to. But my key criteria are: comfortable yet enthusiastic drive, acceleration, handling, luxury, space for 4 easily, and RWD/AWD.
I'm looking at:
G35 Sedan
BMW 530i
Lincoln LS V8
Cadillac?
Anybody care to offer up their comparisons? My purchase probably isn't until early next year, so I have time, but any personal experiences would be appreciated.
-Paul
First, the LS V8 is significantly bigger than not only a 3 Series, but it is also larger than a 5 Series, sort of half way between the 5 and 7 series, so it definately feels bigger than a 3 series.
If I had a 3 series, I think I'd be dissappointed going to a G35. Don't get me wrong, the G35 is very sporty feeling and it is pretty darned fast, which is why a lot of the car rags love it. But it's ergonomics are horrible and it feels like the G35 is inherently unstable. I test drove 2 of them and both hopped sideways pretty bad when cornering over bumps. CR mentioned this and another car rag, was either Autoweek or C & D advised never to drive it with the stability system off. The G35 lacks some of the luxury items and its rear seats don't fold down. A G35 Coupe would be a fun 2nd car to have, but I think I'd get tired of a G35 as a daily driver pretty fast.
530i is still a very nice car, but expensive. At street price equivalently equipped it will run $10K - $12K more than a LS V8. It also is smaller than a LS and for me has a pretty small trunk, all depends what size car you really want and need. The 530 is still the standard and you're going to pay for it, especially when you ad in higher sales tax, property tax (if you have it) and higher insurance.
The CTS was a bit of a disappointement. I'm sure the new 3.6L will help and it has a very nice auto trannie, but I just did not warm up to driving it. It has a very high belt line, which made me feel like I was sitting in a bath tub. You can option yourself to death on a CTS everything is an option including the fold down rear seats. The interior looks and feels like it belongs on a $20K car not a $35K car. Of the 4 cars you mentioned, I found the CTS is the least fun and least rewarding to drive.
If money was no object I might consider a 530i, keeping in mind that new version of the 5 series will be out this fall. But I keep coming back to the LS, especially given its street price. The Lincoln LS may not excel and any one thing, but overal it's still a fun car to drive and it has the best all around combination of Luxury and Performance.
Obviously My idea didn't come into play...
The original business case to leave out the paint? Saves $1.11 per car. Brilliant, huh?
Course now they also gotta come up with $$Millions of dollars to pay Magic Johnson to say he likes Lincolns. Brilliant, huh? Probly gonna start leaving out the back seats altogether to pay for MJ.
The whole idea of decontenting is to make it transparent to the customer, or at least, to make it an issue that is so insignificant that it won't cost sales. So not painting an interior part ought to be ok. Sometimes things don't work out quite so well. But I remember how GM made seats for my 80's Cadillacs that were painted inside, but were so thinly reinforced, that my large friend would bend the seat permanently back if he sat in the car. Happened in 3 of my GM cars. I'd rather them not paint.....
And above all, drive each car in the conditions you use most. Notice that the LS is laser-straight on X-way cruising, even in gusting winds. When you set it into a corner, road surface irregularities do not affect your line AT ALL. Try a panic stop on all the vehicles you're considering, and note the amount of nose-dive.
And, if you're a techie, look at the underside of the LS. You'll see a very unique suspension system, the engineering of which explains its outstanding driving characteristics.
The LS is a driver's car that also carrys three more people in quiet luxury.
I think I misunderstood what you mean, because this didn't make any sense to me. If I did misunderstand, I apologize.
http://www.blueovalnews.com/2003/trucks/expy.rustedseats080403.ht- m
nvbanker: "not painting ought to be OK" ??? trying not to be disrepectful, but wouldn't you rather NOT have rust on the seats? Why would u give Ford a free pass to save a buck by affecting the quality and life of your vehicle? To me this kind of nickel/dime beancounting is horribly counter-productive. If Bill Ford thinks he can save the company doing this, well, he ought to "Look again."
My criteria for choosing my car was based on the following: 4 door sedan, safety, performance, semi lux to luxury, under $45K.
I visited the dealership several times and enjoyed the test drives. Sure the 0-60, on the LS, wasn't the best but it satisfied my appetite. The emergency stop test was impressive though. 60-0 in a straight line without nose diving! I really felt in control. Having been in a bad tractor trailer accident, 3 years earlier, I knew what the benefits of that extra ounce of protection were. It was till about a month after I bought the LS till i was able to get on to the interstate and see what kind of cruise ride and passing power it had. This car has amazing passing abilities. The handling is fantastic! We have an old 5 mile road near my home that has more twists, turns, ups and downs then you could imagine. Using the select shift in 3rd gear it was perfect. Press on the gas once you were in that banking turn and you pushed right through the curve! It was the best roller coaster ride ever! Back to the safety part. If you look at different insurance agency and their polls on the safest cars to drive you will see that the Lincoln LS has been in the top 5 every year.
I know times have changed and there are new models that weren't available 4 years ago. But that car left a lasting impression on me. It would be very difficult to get me to sway from the LS V8 sport. If money was no option well... maybe the Maclaren version of the LS.
ps
the LS was my first American car. others were Japanese or European.
I have a Honda and Jeep as well. My concerns about the American quality make me wonder, but with a car 4 model years into production, I would think most kinks have been resolved. My E46 3 Series is a 2002 and 3 or so years into that model. It's been solid as a rock. My Honda Si is a typical Honda. My Jeep, my only American car, has had some issues. My Pontiac had issues as well. So I guess my only reservation is with the American quality stigma.
Has anybody used the nav system in the LS? How about the THX stereo? In my test drive, I thought the stereo was very full sounding, but I'm by no means an audiophile.
-Paul
"Ford isn’t sure which direction Lincoln is headed — except it’s not chasing Cadillac into the stratosphere.
by Joseph Szczesny"
That has been the problem for years. When the LS first came out and people were paying sticker or more (that's when I bought mine btw) Lincoln didn't know what to do. How to market the car or who to appeal to or even how to get the dealers to order it and sell it. IMO, Bill Ford has done a poor job so far. First Lincoln was a PAG brand, then it wasn't. It would be sold over seas, then not. It just goes on and on. The same article says the Aviator will be out of production by the 2005 model. And don't forget that hot seller the Blackwood. I will be hesitant to get another Jaguar when my lease is up as I feel Ford will screw up that brand too!
One was a visit to Fords Romeo proving grounds. We were allowed to "flog" the 03 LS in both V6 and V8 versions of two test tracks, accompanied by professional drivers. What was interesting is one course was flooded with an inch of water. We were taught to drive to the limits of traction with advance track on and then with it off. I don't think a single driver made it trough the course without incident with advance track off. Then again, that's what we were supposed to do. It made a believer out of everyone who drove that day.
The next event was for us to race (yes race) our LS's at a race track. We first went out with professional racing drivers who taught us breaking points and apex entry, exit etc. Then it was off to the races (literally). It's one thing to see a race car lose it but seeing a fellow members $40K LS pulling a 360 on the front straight is quite another matter.
I lost mine entering the back straight too aggressively and got sideways at around 80 mph. I caught it but also realized that in a normal car, I would have been on the roof.
Both experiences of driving this car near its limits takes you to a level you would never understand otherwise.
Then we hopped in and drove 1376 non stop miles from Detroit back to Dallas and felt great when we got home.
Well done Lincoln!
They are both good systems, but the LS is significantly better. One reason is that it has voice control (both nav. & audio). It also has MANY more points of interests. The LS has 72 recognized voice commands (only 22 documented in the owner's manual) Some examples are: "Rest Area", "Auto service", "Golf course", "School", "University" ...
I'm not an audiophile, so I have to report second-hand information. My wife says the THX in the LS is better than the Lexus Mark Levinson. My grandkids say "Wow, the sound seems to be coming from EVERYWHERE".
Another factor with the nav/sound system is the ease of changing CDs. With the LS, the nav screen moves out of the way to reveal the 6-CD loader. Changing a CD is easily done at a stoplight. Not so with the glovebox-mounted changer in the Lexus.
I do wish Lincoln would get focused..but for now, they fill my needs perfectly. Give Bill a chance. Nothing he does will really be noticed for 3 more years, except financially, which is noticed every single day.
The Aviator is being replaced by a cross-over vehicle, which appears to be the where that market is headed. The Aviator has also gotten pretty good reviews on everything but its price.
If if were not for Ford buying Jaguar, Jag would have gone bankrupt and folded its doors. Jag quality in the 80's was an absolute joke. Ford has managed to save Jaguar, including its spirt while funding the development of vastly improved Jag cars with vastly better quality and reliability. The main thing Ford needs to do with Jag right now is gets Jag's production costs in line, (probably need to consoladate production in one plant) which is no easy feat given how protected jobs are in the UK.
You are absolutely right about the Jaguar purchase and ensuing Ford guidance. They are in fact doing some consolidating moving the Range Rover (Freelander I think) into the same plant as the XType which has a good quality rep and room for increased production.
These cars all share some things in common as I see it:
1) They all were criticised for being overpriced.
2) They all were compromised in some way by bean counters and this affected their acceptance in the marketplace and gave support to (1).
3) They all were victims of horrible marketing. Absolutely pathetic.
4) They all are now strongly rumoured to be going away in 2005. (Well, except the Blackwood:>)
Do I believe they're going away? Not that it matters, but I strongly doubt the Aviator will be dis'd in 2005. It's sales are not that bad. The Marauder? maybe. But a Supercharger would solve ALL the issues with that vehicle and make it a big success (IMHO) The TBird? Looks like it will go. (Does that affect the LS?) The Blackwood? - Yeah, I believe that one's a goner! :>)
So, Ford spends a HUGE amount of money creating these 4 vehicles. $$HUGE$$ Then the bean counters compromise them, eg:
T'bird dash = LS dash. Come on, a little fresh thinking please.
Aviator styling = Navigator styling. Not that that's real bad, but heck I can't tell em apart till I can read the nameplate. Also, some givens were left out of the luxury Aviator like power seatbacks and auto-dimming mirrors. Lots of folks complaining about those.
Merc Marauder - a muscle car without the muscle? What's up with that? WHY did they do that?
Lincoln Blackwood - No 4WD offered. For starters ..
So I wonder long and hard why Ford can afFord to develop these cars, yet can't afFord to go the last mile to make the cars unique and at least marketable, if not best in class, can't seem to afFord to spend any $$$ to market them intelligently and can't or won't at least keep quiet about their potential early demise.
And the early demise is the most puzzling of all. Hell, except for the T'Bird, all of these vehicles were given death sentences within about a year of their introduction! The T'Bird closer to 2 years. Is this a better idea? Except for the Blackwood, these vehicles could and should be big successes with a few more $$$s for mktg and a wee bit more on the vehicles themselves. Instead, they throw in the towel?
I wonder, does Bill Ford have nightmares about the Edsel?
Heyjewel - Ditto on what you said.
Lincolns issue has been it's lack of focus (not the car). Everytime it's headed in a direction, new management comes in and alters it. Let's take into account that everytime new management comes in, it's 2-3 years before we see progress or results. So consider the current situation to be the after effects of the plans of few years back. It's not till another 2 years where we'll see new results of todays plan, as in 2-3 new vehicles for Lincoln. But it's definatly headed in a positive direction.
Same as Mercury. Now with Elena Ford giving it some direction, Mercury's mission will not be altered anytime soon, and if there were another game plan to occur, it will not enter managements head till the next 4 years.
The "focus" we saw in 2000 was Lincoln building up grass-roots positive good word of mouth about the LS -- from the enthusiasts and trade publications that had credibility -- rather than reliance on massive hype and ad buys (not that they skimped on that, either). Now the product line is launched - and they feel they have reached all the "drivers" they can -- so they are trying to broaden the market to appeal to non-enthusiasts (move a lot of cars to those old-timers who objected the LS did not have a compass -- or overcome the car renters who objected to the storage space and interior room.
Enthusiasts alone don't make a successful mass-produced car. Right now, Detroit decided low prices is the way to move vehicles -- along with a hyped up sticker price and a massive, advertised "one time only" rebate.
Who are they fooling?