Has LS sales continued to go up after it was introduced (as it was setting Lincoln records in the first 24 months) or did sales level off or ... decline?
I see LS's everywhere these days on the West Coast -- looks like it sells well -- but I have not tracked the figures.
I chalk up the premiums-- flutes, touch-ups, Lincoln pens, keychain ring, crystal clock (Mania 1) hats (2), day bag w/sun shield -- to J Rodgers leadership. They really struggled to come up with unique premiums. Oh well, its the car that counts ultimately.
Noted today that JD Power & Assoc survey of 2000 makes' long-term reliability put Lincoln well above average and way ahead of other makes of RWD/AWD sport sedans the LS was competing with at the time - Audi, M-B. Also ahead of BMW, but not quite so far. That's even given the LS short-term startup issues we are all well aware of. Reinforces highly-satisfied feeling I have for my sport V8.
I don't have the numbers (I know who would though, I'll try and find him). My understanding is that the LS has sold quite well in 2002 & 2003, leading Lincoln sales, and up from 2000.
Ok has requested, these are the sales figures for the LS since it's introduction.
1999 (Year introduced) 26,368 take into consideration it debuted later in the year, it didn't have a full year start. And tradtional Lincoln buyers weren't fond of the cars european drivability, concentration was placed upon getting the word out there, and get people in the showroom.
2000: 51,039 Word was out, reviews came pouring in, great year, better than anticipated.
2001: 39,787 ON target, everything as expected.
2002: 39,775 Everything's fine, considering the product needs a refresh in it's midlife cycle.
2003: So far half way thru the year, 16,907 . A bit lower than last years 19,XXX midway numbers, but let's not forget the new revamped LS just came out, so many people WAITED till the new version debuted. Next half of the year should improve.
From personal experience, and other experiences. The current V6 (upgraded this year) is really more than enough for most people. The Duratec engine itself is very solid and used in various applications, from Mazda's, to Jaguar's.
BUT the 3.9L V8, overall is a bit more refined. It's more Jaguar, then Ford-ified and it IS known as being much more quieter/sophisticated/refined than any of Ford's other engines. You can probably stand a nickel on the engine top, and see it stay still, of how refined the engine is.
And enjoy it now, because that engine will no longer be used for Ford/Lincoln products past the LS redesign.
Last week my independent mechanic said to me, "Look around you. Nothing but a sea of Fords. The 4.0 in the Explorer and the 4.6 and 5.4 are coming apart at the seams beofore 100,000 miles." And now, Ant14, you are saying the 3.9 V-8 will "no longer be used..." in the LS? Is this true? Please provide your source.
What did he mean, coming apart of the seams, the 4.6 and 5.4L Tritons are very dependable (cept for a few 5.4L that were shipped because a supplier didn't install a part properly, something relating to valves), which were recalled. The Explorer 4.0L V6 HAD (later rectified) issues with the plastic manifold. And these are issues that affected a very small percentage of vehicles. (supplier issue again)
The 3.9L is dying, there's no source OUT there online, but this is insider information I'm sharing. The AJ engine will definatly stay with Jaguar, Lincoln will receive another type of V8 that's more familiar to us. One example is, the Jag's 4.0L grew to 4.2L, this year, while Ford's 3.9L just implemented VCT without increase in displacement. (limited investment because of pending doom) That's the closest clue I can give you.
Based on the sales rates ANT14 cites, it seems the LS reached found its market, and Lincoln is resigned to keep the car at that level. That may be the result of Lincoln failing to adequately promote the car to expand its base of buyers -- it is merely preaching to the converted, using the same formula, rather than broadening the market appeal. I'd be curious in the average age of those 35,000 people per year -- bet its pretty constant. (Remember, Lincoln greenlit the LS for development because the average age of its customers were growing older in lockstep with the years -- meaning they would die off with no ne customers to replace them. That's when they realized they needed younger customers). My two-bit advice to Lincoln -- work on those dealers.
Continuing to compare the 2000 LS 8 to the 2003 LS 6 -- they should have the same transmission, and the 2000 programming has been updated to the latest version, that should be in the LS 6. However, the shifts in the new car -- before it has learned any driving habits -- seem a bit smoother than the LS8. I wonder if there were any mechanical modifications to the automatic transmission since inception, or if the smoothness is a function of the different engines. It would not be unreasonable to guess the 6 has different shift points than the 8. Does anyone know?
Yes the tranmission was improved in various factors, for example. Drive by Wire Throttle control, over linkage systems. The advantages of Drive by Wire is seamless engine response, better integration of powertrain systems such as stability control systems, traction control, etc. as well as overall fuel economy.
Because this removes the old linkage system, pedal feel will remain consistant through out the life of the vehicle. And for those who might be concerned about safety, the system implements microprocessors that monitor sensors on the pedal, to elliminate sudden acceleration or any other issue that might stem from it.
Because of this, and the enhanced engines, they were able to lower the shift points by several MPH . That coupled with the improved power curves, has allowed them to use a taller 0.71 overdrive gear which also improves fuel economy.
All these factors and enhancement, allow the vehicle to "shift" much more efficiently, and seamlessly, at different RPM's, mainly because of the Drive By Wire system, which enchances ALL the above mentioned. Allowing you to perceive softer, smoother, better power distribution, etc. Just overall refinement.
When looking at LS sales keep a few things in mind:
1. In 1999 and early 2000 when the LS came out the DOW was @ 11,000 and NASDAQ was @ 6,000. The market, economy and unemployment are a different story these days.
2. In 1999 when the LS came out, the CTS, X-type, G35, M45,IS-300 ALL did not exist and I'm sure there's a couple other cars I forgot. That is, LS sales have held up pretty well in the face of a lot of new competition.
3. The '03 LS was late to market and Ford made a mistake of building too many '02 LS's (was kept in productio until Nov '02). There were virtally no '03 LS advertisements until this spring after most of the '02's were sold. This really slowed the launch of the '03 LS.
The 4.6L mod motor is a very relable motor. There are numerous stories of Crown Vics in taxi service and Town Cars in Limo service that have gone well over 200K miles without any significant problems. Go read any Mustang chat site and see how those guys run nitrous on them, supercharge them, race them regularly at drag tracks and keep the engines together with amazingly few problems.
There are strong rumors that the 3.9L V8 is going away at the end of 2005. At that time the T-Bird ends production and the LS will be significantly updated. Ford management has publicly stated that it needs to reduce the # of powertrain families it has. Since Ford makes less than 50,000 3.9L V8's per year and the LS & T-bird are the only vehicles that use this engine, I have to think that it is on the chopping block. Look for the 2006 LS to use some form of the DOHC 4.6L engine with VVT.
2003 LS-V6. This is an impressive engine for only 180 CID. When I test drove a '03 V6 LS, I felt by the my seat of my pants that is was only about 1/2 second slower 0-60 than my '00 LS V8. So I looked up the #'s. For a '00 LS V8 with 3.31 rear end, which mine has, typical 0-60 times from the car rags are 7.5 sec. For the '03 V6, 0-60 time is around 8.1 - 8.2 sec. Where you will notice the extra V8 power is at passing speeds, say 60 - 80 MPH.
Sawmill, Having just traded my 2000 sport 8 for a 2003 base 6 I must say that the transmisions are very different and the 6 is no where near as smooth as my 8 was. I must admit I've only had the new one for two weeks now so I'm hoping that time will smooth things out. Other than that I like my new '6'.
Comparing drivetrains on my 2003 TBird with my 94 (4.6) TBird, there is no comparison.
The 2003 is head and shoulders over the 94 4.6.
Power is exceptional on the 3.9; gas mileage about the same, but the 2003 is still new.
My 4.6 has 104,ooo miles and, except for plugs/wires, has never been touched.
I personally change the oil/filter myself every 3,000 miles, and curse the engineer who designed the oil filter position and all the "stuff" in the way.
I do notice a higher highway RPM level on the 2003 Bird (3:58 rear, 17" tires) as opposed to the 94 Bird (16" tires; 3:27 rear), but that 2003 can really run.
generates a few questions. When the LS was introduced, it had not so much competition -- BMW 5, Audi 6 & Lexus GS are all I can think of at the moment (plus the Jag S, which counts as incest). In that environment, the sales documented above were generated.
Now it's 3 - 4 years later, and there's those three, plus the CTS and G35, combined with significant upgrades to the LS. With the current situation, it's worth noting that the LS is holding its own. Some would say that it's also interesting to note that the CTS is increasing its numbers (2003 vs. 2002) in this same highly competitive environment. Is it such that those who wish to "buy American" have gone to GM?
I have yet to see a really objective comparison of the LS vs the CTS (most of these discussions devolve to "it's ugly" within the first three words), but my impression overall is that the LS handles better and has the better interior. Yet the CTS sells more and is increasing year-over-year.
Hello to everyone I have not posted here before but I read this board almost everyday I wanted to post my views about our 2001 Lincoln LS sport. I have to say I love this car I am a sedan man. I have owned an 85 Monte SS 86 GN and a 95 Impala SS. This car is by far my most favorite:-) We have not had many problems with the vehicle, leaky headlamps and a valve cover gasket that’s it. The car has 27000 miles on it and on the way to San Francisco to pick up someone at the air port. About 5 miles out the trans decides to give up 4th and 5th gear, well I don’t want to stop on the bay bridge so we call road side assistance for the nearest place to take the vehicle to for service and they sent us to a Ford dealer roadside assured us they could fix it when I voiced my concern I know few Ford/Jaguar cars have this trans. This turned out to be big mistake, as this Ford dealer and I bet most can’t fix this trans. Its been at this dealer almost two weeks now and Ford told them to replace two solenoids first and when that did not work, Ford then authorized them to drop the trans to check the 4th and 5th clutches WHY did Ford authorize this. The codes they gave me were T0734 T0735 and T0795 but I believe they are the letter “p” not “t” I looked them up in my 2000 service CD, not good!
Ok I fix LaserJet printers and computers all day long so I understand things break, not a problem for me as long as someone knows how to fix what ever is broken.
Well now they are telling me they don’t have the proper tool to pull the front seal and they broke another whatever trying to remove it, they are hunting around for the correct tool now. They also probable don’t have the unit that is necessary to flush the trans but this is speculation on my part. Since the trans is out I cant have it towed to a LM dealer now as this dealer will not get paid to put it back in and to top it all off the trans techs are on strike. This info was from a LM dealer in the area we called. We called two and both say they are backed up and can’t touch it, how convenient. The dealer is trying to some degree so I cant totally blame them, but when we did voice our concerns about the lack of info they said the car was drivable and we could take it, nice huh.
The next beef is with roadside assistance they plain stink for the above plus there total lack of knowledge on what they will cover for emergence situations like this. Since we were over 100 miles from home we are suppose to get lodging and rentals and we did need to take advantage of this one night as we did not know what was wrong with the car at the time and were hoping it was something simple like a solenoid. Well we finally think we figured all this out on our own after several calls to LM speaking to clueless people who could not even under stand that the show room address was not the same as the service address which wasn’t in there data base. It also remains to be seen if we get reimbursed for our expenses, as there are some stipulations. We also rented a car to pick it up after the dealer said it would be fixed and on the way down we get a call saying the first fix did not work so we turned around and went home, who’s fault both I guess we should have waited.
Well I have to sum it up as TERRIBLE customer service from Ford/LM/roadside I don’t expect Champaign in my hotel room but I do expect competent people who know there product and can fix it in a reasonable amount of time and it does not seem Ford can offer this service to it customers. Sorry for the length but I wanted to cover most of it to be fair. I really wanted to look at the 2003 but with this situation I cant. In my opinion the car is going to be down for a while if they open up the trans. I have to say, in eight months the car is gone and its on to another make.
Ford/LM/roadside really dropped the ball on this one, they should have NOT sent me to this dealer and this dealer should have NEVER touched this car.
I'm sympathetic with you in your situation -- sometimes I think I've had every problem on my LS 8 that was possible.
When mine broke 144 miles away, Lincoln picked up $35 dollars per day for reental -- even though the dealer said they would pay all of it (about $40 per day - Hertz). When it came time to pay up - they paid late, and shorted about $100 bucks. But made it up by free service on the next oil change tire rotation.
When I had my transmission shift loss (about a year ago - different service event) it was close to home, and my great LS mechanic immediately diagnosed it as a failed shifting switch in the center console. Once they got the correct part from Detroit, the car was fixed in minutes. My hometown dealer always supplies a free rental in these situations -- that's why I bought my second LS 6 there, and that's a major reason I stick with the brand.
Call the 800 Lincoln service line to clear up problems. I found Patrick there was very diligent, and sincere. You can say "Rick" suggested you speak with him -- but that may not mean anything.
Yes, I agree, billygoat. You can't just settle for this crap. You yell and scream and jump up and down if you have to, and escalate the problem until you get satisfaction. They owe you this, and whether you buy again or not, you deserve better attention than this. Ask for a supervisor, and when you get one, first thing you do is ask who the next 5 people are above him. Then if he doesn't help you, you have 5 other names to call. You'll get attention.
Some may remember that I've a 2001 LSV8 PP that I'm very, very happy with. Thanks to input from you guys, last fall I put 245/45/17 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S donuts on the car, and am even happier. Man, do these cars handle!
Many applications of Nevr-Dull (great stuff!) ago I noticed that the chrome plating around the wheel center emblem thingies was starting to crack and peel up on all four wheels, but never thought too much about it. Just yesterday I saw that one of them had actually gone missing, and I figured that some punk had pried it out for a souvenir. Upon closer inspection, I saw that the wheel center opening was 3/4 full of corrosion and mung - what I had originally thought of as a finger sized hole in the center was actually much bigger. After digging out all the accumulated gundge, I discovered that the corrosion had started to digest the wheel from the center out, and that this was the root cause of the plating failure! Took the car to my ABFAB Ford/Lincoln dealer this morning and asked them to order a new emblem thingy and a spare, as I was going to take the other ones off and thoroughly clean out the cavity on each wheel. I was concerned that I might break off the retainer tabs on another, and wanted one available. To make a long story short, they said "no way, Mr. Customer, Sir", and ordered four new wheels for me on the spot! They'll be replacing them next week. I'm blown away by the service! I'm also curious as to whether anyone else has had this experience/problem with their wheels? Anyone have a prevention plan? I'm thinking that periodic removal of the center cap, a thorough cleaning, and a light film of axle grease over the hidden surfaces might help. Anyways, your input greatly appreciated, and, yes, I do live in the great white north where those Pilot A/S do a credible job getting through the flakey stuff!
this is a common problem, there is a TSB 00-17-03 for the problem. I had mine repaired, under warranty, about 6 weeks ago. I also have a 2000 Sport model. Repair cost billed to Ford was $58. $18 was labor...they replace both lights.
beats me, it's free to ask. I've heard of something called an AWA (after warranty adjustment) that dealers can use. I've heard each car gets two. I have no idea if that is true however. Your warranty must be expired secondary to miles so if you're not too far over 50K mile, whining may be effective....!
jerrym - you can't compare your 94 T bird 4.6L to what engine will end up in the 2006 LS. Your 96 T-Bird had a SOHC engine rated at about 225 HP. The LS will most likely get some version of the all aluminum DOHC 4 valve 4.6L engine. This engine is more powerful than the 3.9L. In the old Continental / MK-VIII version it put out 290 HP and I think 300 lb ft. In the Cobra / Mach 1 version it puts out around 310 HP / 320 lb. ft. ANT14 made a comment suggesting that the version for the 2006 LS will add VCT to the DOHC engine which by my estimates could give it up to 330 HP, so it will blow away even the 2003 3.9L in the power department. I just hope they work on NVH on the 4.6L as I do agree the 3.9L is a much more refined engine.
sawmill - the transmission in the 2003 LS is the 5R55S, the 2000 - 2002 LS used the 5R55N. The S stands for "synchronous shift". It uses a simplified valve body and is supposed to shift faster. I've test driven 4 2003 LS's, on 3 of the cars the shifts were very fast and smooth, I'd say much better than my 2000 LS-8. The 4th LS seemd to have harsh shifts, especially down shifts, so it is possible there is some variation in transmissions.
CTS sales #'s. Here are my reasons why the CTS is doing so well:
1. Price - Most people perceive that the CTS is less expensive than a LS. While this is true for a V8 LS, this is NOT true for a V6 LS. With the CTS everything is ala carte, that is you can option yourself to death with a CTS. Even the fold down rear seats are an option on the CTS. The 2 best CTS paint colors are $750 options, vs. $295 - $375 on the LS. A CTS is more expensive than a comparable V6 LS, especialy with the latest LS incentives.
2.Advertising - don't know what it's like where you folks are, but around here I'd say that CTS ads easily out number LS ads by 10:1.
3. Buzz - Caddy has successfully created buzz around its brand, from the now ended Caddy racing program, edgy styling, Bob Lutz, Caddy 16, the new SRX etc. Caddy has successfully raised both its visibility and image.
4. Dealers - as a couple people just noted, most Lincoln dealers just plain STINK!
A while back I test drove a CTS and the CTS is not a bad car, but it has its faults. IMHO the LS is the better car in almost every way, especially the 2003 LS. In fact the ONLY 2 things I can say where I thought the CTS was better than the LS are its transmission shifting (except there is no SST) and its option ordering flexibility. Now if only Lincoln could whip its dealers into shape and create some buzz around the Lincoln brand............
Glad to see you're still here, slunar. Sttill have your LS w/ that had the axel balance promise.
One plate light on my 2000 LS also has dropped -- I kept telling the dealer to fix it when he had time - thinking it was a not that fell off. Now that I know it is an actual broken part, covered by a TSB, I'll request replacement before the warranty expires (but I will extend warranty anyway).
The different transmissions explain it! I only drove the my wife's 2003 once - took it home from the dealer by the "long route" over the freeway and some twisty surface streets -- and that explains why the untrained tranny is a bit smoother than my 2000 trained tranny with 37,000 miles on it.
Finally -- there is a big difference between Lincoln dealers and mechanics -- Lincolns control over them is not absolute. I am forunate to have found a very good dealer with a small, well trained service department -- I know everyone there by first names -- and they do a lot of commercial (Limo) servicing, so they are used to working with businessmen. This makes all the difference -- and they do Lincoln a much greater service than just selling and repairing cars.
First, CTS Vs. LS; I've tried them both, and although the CTS is a big improvement over the Caddy that Zigs, it feels infinitely less engineered to me than the LS. I don't like the hole you sit in, the dash seems Chevy engineered to me, although I think the LS could do better in that dept. also. With the LS, I feel like saying, WOW! With the CTS, I feel like saying, "about time, you're getting closer".
Second, Lincoln Dealers: In my town, both Lincoln-Mercury dealers are pretty decent. One is a nationally owned dealer, the other is family owned. I deal with the family shop. They generally treat me like Gold in most respects. Their mechanics aren't always the best, but they do back flips to make me happy in sales & service. I used to drive Cadillacs, and the Cadillac dealer across the street was arrogant, elitist, unpleasant, no loaner cars, not even a smile when you pay your bill. So, while I'm sure there will be some crappy Lincoln dealers, I'm not impressed with Cadillac here at all.
I still maintain that you will get better service from a Linc/Merc dealer than you will a Ford/Linc/Merc dealer. Unfortunately, I bought my LS from the latter as that was what my local dealer was. When the service (and sales I suppose) spend most of their day dealing with Escort and Focus drivers, they find it hard to switch gears for the more upscale customers. My dealer did have a service lane marked Lincoln Red Carpet only but it was always full of Escorts and Mustangs. Lexus service wouldn't be as great as it is perceived now if they were using the same facility as a Toyota franchise.
I guess I don't get it, regarding the deletion of the 3.9. Why would Lincoln not prefer a Jaguar based engine since Lincoln is a premium vehicle over a Ford engine (4.6) that's been pushing around pickups, SUVs and Mustangs?
Ford has a history of cheapening a brand. The Pinto based Mustang II, the Versaille, a Ford Granada, the Continental, a heavy-weight Taurus, etc...
You're probably right. Interestingly, the Lincoln dealer I've been doing business with the past 13 years died suddenly and unexpected (in the showroom one night), and his widow hired a General Manager from a Dodge store to run the place for her. Service levels took an initial dive as the guy came in transfering his Dodge mentality right over. But a few people (like me) must have got him to rethink a bit as I see things returning to the standard set by the owner when he took over the store years ago. It does matter what you drive in though, because I get a little different level of initial treatment when I bring my Navigator in than I do when I bring in my wife's Mountaineer or son's Explorer. At least, from the people there who don't know me. I think if a dealer could overcome that one dynamic of prejudgement, they could own the market. Because Ford Focus customers are people too, you know? And the Focus guy may not have the money the Lincoln guy has, but he might, you just can't tell, and if you treat the Focus guy right, he will eventually trade up.
Problem is, Ford has too many engine platforms at the moment, an inefficient way to manufacture power in this day and age, and they need to kill the most expensive ones to remain competitive. But I too mourn the loss of the 3.9L. And you had to bring up the Mustang II and Lincoln Versailles didn't you! Neither of which were the abject disasters the Cadillac Cimarron or Chevy Vega were, BTW. But the Continental was a great design....I owned 2. That Limosine roofline, huge back doors & seat, incredible ride and comfort. (Lousy power train, but nobody's perfect). Yes, I know, it was the worst car Ford had at the time, but I liked the design anyway. I still miss mine.
I just wanted to share with everyone on the board that Lincoln vehicles sucks (especially LS). I currently drive an 01 LS V8 and it's the worst car I've owned during my 8 years of driving experience. Some of you mention this is a BMW fighter and a lot of other !@#$%^'s, but my comments to you folks... You guys are crazy! All of you folks probably wanted the following cars:
1. BMW 528/530 2. Lexus GS300 3. Audi A6
but couldn't justify/afford the extra $7k/10K.
Big mistake!!!! as I did - first, I got ripped on the car, 0% APR is attractive, but again - resale value !@#$%^& sucks.
This is my first american car after having driven only German/Japanese cars for the past 8 years... I just want to let everyone know that Lincoln is just not ready for prime time for BMW/AUDI/Lincoln and other nicer cars.
Also, for the folks currently considering a new purchase or lease of a Lincoln LS... please try to spend the extra $$$ and go elsewhere. You won't regret it!
If you are current posses a Lincoln LS and don't agree with me "please post a follow-up msg" or "send me an email"
I just can't imagine anyone here disagreeing with you. You are obviously correct. We're just too cheap to buy "the real thing". I'll just take my 2 LSes and go home, HUMPH!!
I wonder if the LS will, looking back 20-30 years, be an historic, watershed car for Lincoln, or just a transition to a new series. I perceive it as the first successful American-made competion to the solid, tight euro-yuppie cars of the late 90's boom. But also, as such a change in direction for Lincoln - will it be seen as a clean break from the past, or a step in a new direction?
Well, omgomg, if don't trade that LS on Monday for the eurocar of your dreams, you're a moron. I would never keep a car I hated that much for 2 years like you have. I refuse to be that unhappy.
So I'm suppose to trade my bullet proof LS (Lincoln 212) with 92K miles, and 0- issues, for a BMW (262) or Audi (318) which was ranked much lower in overall vehicle dependability by JdPower's figures released last week? Not....
"I guess I don't get it, regarding the deletion of the 3.9. Why would Lincoln not prefer a Jaguar based engine since Lincoln is a premium vehicle over a Ford engine (4.6) that's been pushing around pickups, SUVs and Mustangs?"
Because it's diluting the Jaguar brand, something that makes more of a profit, over the Lincoln. So concentration on that, is being implemented.
And Ford's modular family has received numerous engineering awards by Wards Auto, over the 3.9L which only received it one year. The modular family are flexible enough for any application, and for every possible need. While I love the 3.9L's refinement, the 4.6L (with the proper tuning) can deliver a punch that the 3.9L would require more investment, to match. And if so, it would impede on the Jag variation which they simply will not allow. Stuff enough insulation, and program the transmission specifically, and the 4.6L can sound and feel just as refined as the 3.9L. It's just a give and take senario, but always possible.
Lexus, Inifiniti, Acura share their engines with their lower stablemates, but many seem to turn a blind eye to them for doing so, yet if Ford does it (Gasp) the horror....
IMHO (And that's all it is) the supposed competition between Lincoln and Jaguar is all in some enthusiast's head. I doubt it is in Ford's mind. There is virtually no cross-shopping of the two brands. Jag buyers are comparing other European cars and maybe a couple high end Japanese. One is not cannibalizing the other. I feel Ford is more concerned with Volvo's new offerings eating into Jag sales.
I cannot imagine a Jaguar buyer feeling the jag is a lessor car because its basic engine is used in other vehicles.
After all, Aston Martin for decades shared its Spicer differential with U.S. postal mail jeeps, etc.
If both cars share the same dashboard and interior materials -- that is a sifferent matter -- but not sharing the same engine (and much more importantly) the same suspension.
sawmill - thanks for the words. My '00 LS is gone, the lease was over. The vibration resonance was never fixed. The rear axles were replaced 2 times with different revision parts. The 2nd rev. parts got rid of the 51 MPH drone, completely but didn't fix the resonance.
After talking to another '00 LS owner who had the exact same problem, I belive the problem was the exhaust system vibrating. His Lincoln dealer solved his problem by welding some weights on the exhaust pipes, first time he brought it in complaining about it.
I suggested this to my dealer, but they weren't listening, which is my complaint about the 2 Lincoln dealers I tried for service. Both of their service departments only wanted to know was "What is the customer complaint" after that it's a black hole, which the paperwork barely telling you what they did let alone why and when they hand you the keys back they think the problem is fixed whether you do or not.
If I had it to do over again I would have stuck some weights on the exhaust pipes myself and given it a try. I usually work on my own cars and I can say initially I was a bit intimidated by the complexity of the LS, but once you get to know it, things aren't that hard to figure out.
Other than that one resonance problem, I had no other complaints about the LS and still miss it. The 51 MPH drone really didn't bother me. I'm debating whether to get a '03 LS now given the latest incentives, but since I have a 9 month old car and a 2 year old car I don't have any pressing need to buy another vehicle right now.
It looks like Lincoln is abandoned. Ford pays far more attention to Jaguar and Volvo. And Jaguar isn't profitable for a decade! Ford NA operations are profitable. So what going to happen, going Ford to phase out (basically not paying attention to make it unprofitable) Lincoln and replace it with Jaguar and Volvo ?
Another question. If Lincoln was unprofitable for a decade like Jaguar would Ford keep it alive or let it go? Is Jaguar more valuable brand than Lincoln ? And why American brands become expendible while Europeans are considered as a heritage. Even something like Rover is still alive, though there is no profit and even no sales, while 100 years old Oldsmobile is gone like many others (Packard, etc.). GM wastes fortunes on Fiat, Isuzu, Suzuki. For what reason ?
Volvo and Jag shopper's do not cross shop, therefore Ford isn't concerned about one over the other. Lincoln vehicles, and their tooling are pretty much paid for considering they are based mostly on other Ford vehicles, therefore it's profittable. Jag doesn't have to be based on, therefore it's that much harder to make it profittable, which should be in the next year or two.
Which is why the next X-type is being based on another platform, over the current Mondeo based one. There's been too much critisizm over it's plebian roots, and sales are not as expected. Going on a larger platform, the next S-type will also grow a bit but not much. And overall engines will be shared with other PAG brands, look for a possible Inline engine. And for Jag to share it's V8 engine with Land Rover.
That's still being worked on, we won't see definate results till the new vehicle assults debut for 2006. Then it'll be a "wham bam" senario with all the debuts so close to each other.
Ant14, so I take it that the replacement body style is slated for sometime in 2005 as a 2006? I will seriously want one if it has some of McGovern's slab styling influences of the early sixties. I loved that look then, and I do now.
At this point, would you say that the exterior design direction is similar to the show vehicle that made the rounds of the auto shows? It was tagged a Continental, but it restored Lincoln to looking like a Lincoln again.
Anyway, my LS ('00 manual w/ only audio options) has continued to please. I just got home a few days ago from a 2K mile driveabout while my wife was at a conference, and the car was pure pleasure. It just turned 55K miles, and I'm on my own now (no warranty), so every little glitch seems much more important.
Either way, the next two years will tell the tale. My previous American (actually built in Canada) car was great for the first three years and went into the toilet in the fourth year. I'm moderately confident that the LS won't follow that pattern.
If it does, I'll never own another U.S. brand. So far, so good.
The part that's so discouraging is that the newly improved LS is no longer offered with a manual transmission. Originally, the manual was an option on the six. Now, with the CVT six, or better yet with a CVT 8, a manual would make the LS a real competitor with the best available elsewhere. For whatever reason, Ford thinks this is not "a better idea."
CARJIM, It's too early to tell yet, exactly the direction a vehicle might make. So many times, and what's usually the case, the manufacturer will parade 'concept' vehicles to test out consumer reactions, after that time, a vehicle can be severely altered from that starting point, then presented to various consumer groups, and have them nit-pick at the various elements, to see if it pleases the majority of people (Wonder what happened with the [non-permissible content removed]-tek).
So the concepts we have seen are a HINT of what CAN be expected, but maybe in different intepretations. As example, let's take the Mustang. Don't look too much at the hard edges, and too many of the folds/curves, but look at the story they are trying to communicate (short rear desk, stretched wheelbase, thicker platform, headlamps, tail-lamps) or like I tell some people "squint your eyes a bit, and what sticks out is what usually makes it at the end". ________________________________________________
CNPINHEAD, So far I have 92,000 miles on my '00 LSV8 and so far no issue. I'm NOT the gentlest of driver's, and I make it a point to abuse a car to find it's weaknesses, and so far with regular maintenence, and my bad habit of changing extending oil life 2 times over, all is well.
I'm looking to buy another vehicle soon, but there's not many choices within the Ford family that has RWD and V8, which is why I've kept it this long and I'm sure I'll hit over 100K before I make a choice.
But trust me, if something would have broken down before 50K, I surely would have used it as an excuse to get something new, which is why I've held on to it this long.
My dealer is a Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury dealer and provides A+ service. No complaints. Look at Johnson-Sewell FLM if you are in the Marble Falls TX area...
Actually, the HP rating on the 94 4.6 SOHC is about 205.
I know it's not apples/apples comparing the 2003 TBird 2003 3.9 to the 94 Bird 4.6.
But, the point I was trying to make is that the 94 is a very competent car (except for having one of the worst transmissions that Ford ever made). It's "peppy", gets 20MPG in normal driving with mid-upper 20's on straight highway trips, and has gone over 100,000 with zero engine malfunctions.
But, the 2003 Bird, which might actually weigh more than the 94 model, is averaging 20 MPG while still not broken in, and, in relative terms, can really haul.
Which is what I'd expect for a car that's nine years newer; technology marches on.
Comments
I see LS's everywhere these days on the West Coast -- looks like it sells well -- but I have not tracked the figures.
I chalk up the premiums-- flutes, touch-ups, Lincoln pens, keychain ring, crystal clock (Mania 1) hats (2), day bag w/sun shield -- to J Rodgers leadership. They really struggled to come up with unique premiums. Oh well, its the car that counts ultimately.
What does the V8 give me that would induce me to pick it over the V6? Just curious. I haven't had a chance to drive either yet.
My concerns are:
company solidity
reliability
Any assistance would be appreciated.
-Paul
1999 (Year introduced) 26,368 take into consideration it debuted later in the year, it didn't have a full year start. And tradtional Lincoln buyers weren't fond of the cars european drivability, concentration was placed upon getting the word out there, and get people in the showroom.
2000: 51,039 Word was out, reviews came pouring in, great year, better than anticipated.
2001: 39,787 ON target, everything as expected.
2002: 39,775 Everything's fine, considering the product needs a refresh in it's midlife cycle.
2003: So far half way thru the year, 16,907 . A bit lower than last years 19,XXX midway numbers, but let's not forget the new revamped LS just came out, so many people WAITED till the new version debuted. Next half of the year should improve.
Recap:
1999-26,368
2000-51,039
2001-39,787
2002-39,775
2003-16,907 mid year.
BUT the 3.9L V8, overall is a bit more refined. It's more Jaguar, then Ford-ified and it IS known as being much more quieter/sophisticated/refined than any of Ford's other engines. You can probably stand a nickel on the engine top, and see it stay still, of how refined the engine is.
And enjoy it now, because that engine will no longer be used for Ford/Lincoln products past the LS redesign.
The 3.9L is dying, there's no source OUT there online, but this is insider information I'm sharing. The AJ engine will definatly stay with Jaguar, Lincoln will receive another type of V8 that's more familiar to us. One example is, the Jag's 4.0L grew to 4.2L, this year, while Ford's 3.9L just implemented VCT without increase in displacement. (limited investment because of pending doom) That's the closest clue I can give you.
Lincoln TCar 5,422 6,650 22,895 25,216
Cadillac CTS 4,651 3,473 21,358 11,237
MBnz E-Class 4,724 2,104 21,513 13,161
MBnz C-Class 4,583 4,344 19,718 18,912
BMW 5 Series 4,067 3,550 16,894 17,068
Infiniti G35 3,278 3,298 14,317. 8,731
Lincoln LS.. 3,176 3,383 14,137 16,190
Jaguar X-Type 2,223 2,961 9,900 16,171
Lexus IS 300 1,504 2,418 6,169 8,348
Audi A6 1,428 2,324 6,589 8,448
Volvo S80 1,399 1,121 5,826 6,407
Jaguar S-Type 1,388 1,246 5,965 5,820
Lexus GS 300 1,058 1,233 4,236 5,911
Because this removes the old linkage system, pedal feel will remain consistant through out the life of the vehicle. And for those who might be concerned about safety, the system implements microprocessors that monitor sensors on the pedal, to elliminate sudden acceleration or any other issue that might stem from it.
Because of this, and the enhanced engines, they were able to lower the shift points by several MPH . That coupled with the improved power curves, has allowed them to use a taller 0.71 overdrive gear which also improves fuel economy.
All these factors and enhancement, allow the vehicle to "shift" much more efficiently, and seamlessly, at different RPM's, mainly because of the Drive By Wire system, which enchances ALL the above mentioned. Allowing you to perceive softer, smoother, better power distribution, etc. Just overall refinement.
1. In 1999 and early 2000 when the LS came out the DOW was @ 11,000 and NASDAQ was @ 6,000. The market, economy and unemployment are a different story these days.
2. In 1999 when the LS came out, the CTS, X-type, G35, M45,IS-300 ALL did not exist and I'm sure there's a couple other cars I forgot. That is, LS sales have held up pretty well in the face of a lot of new competition.
3. The '03 LS was late to market and Ford made a mistake of building too many '02 LS's (was kept in productio until Nov '02). There were virtally no '03 LS advertisements until this spring after most of the '02's were sold. This really slowed the launch of the '03 LS.
The 4.6L mod motor is a very relable motor. There are numerous stories of Crown Vics in taxi service and Town Cars in Limo service that have gone well over 200K miles without any significant problems. Go read any Mustang chat site and see how those guys run nitrous on them, supercharge them, race them regularly at drag tracks and keep the engines together with amazingly few problems.
There are strong rumors that the 3.9L V8 is going away at the end of 2005. At that time the T-Bird ends production and the LS will be significantly updated. Ford management has publicly stated that it needs to reduce the # of powertrain families it has. Since Ford makes less than 50,000 3.9L V8's per year and the LS & T-bird are the only vehicles that use this engine, I have to think that it is on the chopping block. Look for the 2006 LS to use some form of the DOHC 4.6L engine with VVT.
2003 LS-V6. This is an impressive engine for only 180 CID. When I test drove a '03 V6 LS, I felt by the my seat of my pants that is was only about 1/2 second slower 0-60 than my '00 LS V8. So I looked up the #'s. For a '00 LS V8 with 3.31 rear end, which mine has, typical 0-60 times from the car rags are 7.5 sec. For the '03 V6, 0-60 time is around 8.1 - 8.2 sec. Where you will notice the extra V8 power is at passing speeds, say 60 - 80 MPH.
Having just traded my 2000 sport 8 for a 2003 base 6 I must say that the transmisions are very different and the 6 is no where near as smooth as my 8 was. I must admit I've only had the new one for two weeks now so I'm hoping that time will smooth things out. Other than that I like my new '6'.
The 2003 is head and shoulders over the 94 4.6.
Power is exceptional on the 3.9; gas mileage about the same, but the 2003 is still new.
My 4.6 has 104,ooo miles and, except for plugs/wires, has never been touched.
I personally change the oil/filter myself every 3,000 miles, and curse the engineer who designed the oil filter position and all the "stuff" in the way.
I do notice a higher highway RPM level on the 2003 Bird (3:58 rear, 17" tires) as opposed to the 94 Bird (16" tires; 3:27 rear), but that 2003 can really run.
Now it's 3 - 4 years later, and there's those three, plus the CTS and G35, combined with significant upgrades to the LS. With the current situation, it's worth noting that the LS is holding its own. Some would say that it's also interesting to note that the CTS is increasing its numbers (2003 vs. 2002) in this same highly competitive environment. Is it such that those who wish to "buy American" have gone to GM?
I have yet to see a really objective comparison of the LS vs the CTS (most of these discussions devolve to "it's ugly" within the first three words), but my impression overall is that the LS handles better and has the better interior. Yet the CTS sells more and is increasing year-over-year.
Go figure.
Ok I fix LaserJet printers and computers all day long so I understand things break, not a problem for me as long as someone knows how to fix what ever is broken.
Well now they are telling me they don’t have the proper tool to pull the front seal and they broke another whatever trying to remove it, they are hunting around for the correct tool now. They also probable don’t have the unit that is necessary to flush the trans but this is speculation on my part. Since the trans is out I cant have it towed to a LM dealer now as this dealer will not get paid to put it back in and to top it all off the trans techs are on strike. This info was from a LM dealer in the area we called. We called two and both say they are backed up and can’t touch it, how convenient. The dealer is trying to some degree so I cant totally blame them, but when we did voice our concerns about the lack of info they said the car was drivable and we could take it, nice huh.
The next beef is with roadside assistance they plain stink for the above plus there total lack of knowledge on what they will cover for emergence situations like this. Since we were over 100 miles from home we are suppose to get lodging and rentals and we did need to take advantage of this one night as we did not know what was wrong with the car at the time and were hoping it was something simple like a solenoid. Well we finally think we figured all this out on our own after several calls to LM speaking to clueless people who could not even under stand that the show room address was not the same as the service address which wasn’t in there data base. It also remains to be seen if we get reimbursed for our expenses, as there are some stipulations. We also rented a car to pick it up after the dealer said it would be fixed and on the way down we get a call saying the first fix did not work so we turned around and went home, who’s fault both I guess we should have waited.
Well I have to sum it up as TERRIBLE customer service from Ford/LM/roadside I don’t expect Champaign in my hotel room but I do expect competent people who know there product and can fix it in a reasonable amount of time and it does not seem Ford can offer this service to it customers.
Sorry for the length but I wanted to cover most of it to be fair.
I really wanted to look at the 2003 but with this situation I cant. In my opinion the car is going to be down for a while if they open up the trans. I have to say, in eight months the car is gone and its on to another make.
Ford/LM/roadside really dropped the ball on this one, they should have NOT sent me to this dealer and this dealer should have NEVER touched this car.
When mine broke 144 miles away, Lincoln picked up $35 dollars per day for reental -- even though the dealer said they would pay all of it (about $40 per day - Hertz). When it came time to pay up - they paid late, and shorted about $100 bucks. But made it up by free service on the next oil change tire rotation.
When I had my transmission shift loss (about a year ago - different service event) it was close to home, and my great LS mechanic immediately diagnosed it as a failed shifting switch in the center console. Once they got the correct part from Detroit, the car was fixed in minutes. My hometown dealer always supplies a free rental in these situations -- that's why I bought my second LS 6 there, and that's a major reason I stick with the brand.
Call the 800 Lincoln service line to clear up problems. I found Patrick there was very diligent, and sincere. You can say "Rick" suggested you speak with him -- but that may not mean anything.
Many applications of Nevr-Dull (great stuff!) ago I noticed that the chrome plating around the wheel center emblem thingies was starting to crack and peel up on all four wheels, but never thought too much about it. Just yesterday I saw that one of them had actually gone missing, and I figured that some punk had pried it out for a souvenir. Upon closer inspection, I saw that the wheel center opening was 3/4 full of corrosion and mung - what I had originally thought of as a finger sized hole in the center was actually much bigger. After digging out all the accumulated gundge, I discovered that the corrosion had started to digest the wheel from the center out, and that this was the root cause of the plating failure! Took the car to my ABFAB Ford/Lincoln dealer this morning and asked them to order a new emblem thingy and a spare, as I was going to take the other ones off and thoroughly clean out the cavity on each wheel. I was concerned that I might break off the retainer tabs on another, and wanted one available. To make a long story short, they said "no way, Mr. Customer, Sir", and ordered four new wheels for me on the spot! They'll be replacing them next week. I'm blown away by the service! I'm also curious as to whether anyone else has had this experience/problem with their wheels? Anyone have a prevention plan? I'm thinking that periodic removal of the center cap, a thorough cleaning, and a light film of axle grease over the hidden surfaces might help. Anyways, your input greatly appreciated, and, yes, I do live in the great white north where those Pilot A/S do a credible job getting through the flakey stuff!
It's like the latching nubs that hold the light housing has broken inside the license light openings.
Has anyone had the same problem. Of course, the car is out of warranty now.
sawmill - the transmission in the 2003 LS is the 5R55S, the 2000 - 2002 LS used the 5R55N. The S stands for "synchronous shift". It uses a simplified valve body and is supposed to shift faster. I've test driven 4 2003 LS's, on 3 of the cars the shifts were very fast and smooth, I'd say much better than my 2000 LS-8. The 4th LS seemd to have harsh shifts, especially down shifts, so it is possible there is some variation in transmissions.
CTS sales #'s. Here are my reasons why the CTS is doing so well:
1. Price - Most people perceive that the CTS is less expensive than a LS. While this is true for a V8 LS, this is NOT true for a V6 LS. With the CTS everything is ala carte, that is you can option yourself to death with a CTS. Even the fold down rear seats are an option on the CTS. The 2 best CTS paint colors are $750 options, vs. $295 - $375 on the LS. A CTS is more expensive than a comparable V6 LS, especialy with the latest LS incentives.
2.Advertising - don't know what it's like where you folks are, but around here I'd say that CTS ads easily out number LS ads by 10:1.
3. Buzz - Caddy has successfully created buzz around its brand, from the now ended Caddy racing program, edgy styling, Bob Lutz, Caddy 16, the new SRX etc. Caddy has successfully raised both its visibility and image.
4. Dealers - as a couple people just noted, most Lincoln dealers just plain STINK!
A while back I test drove a CTS and the CTS is not a bad car, but it has its faults. IMHO the LS is the better car in almost every way, especially the 2003 LS. In fact the ONLY 2 things I can say where I thought the CTS was better than the LS are its transmission shifting (except there is no SST) and its option ordering flexibility. Now if only Lincoln could whip its dealers into shape and create some buzz around the Lincoln brand............
One plate light on my 2000 LS also has dropped -- I kept telling the dealer to fix it when he had time - thinking it was a not that fell off. Now that I know it is an actual broken part, covered by a TSB, I'll request replacement before the warranty expires (but I will extend warranty anyway).
The different transmissions explain it! I only drove the my wife's 2003 once - took it home from the dealer by the "long route" over the freeway and some twisty surface streets -- and that explains why the untrained tranny is a bit smoother than my 2000 trained tranny with 37,000 miles on it.
Finally -- there is a big difference between Lincoln dealers and mechanics -- Lincolns control over them is not absolute. I am forunate to have found a very good dealer with a small, well trained service department -- I know everyone there by first names -- and they do a lot of commercial (Limo) servicing, so they are used to working with businessmen. This makes all the difference -- and they do Lincoln a much greater service than just selling and repairing cars.
Second, Lincoln Dealers: In my town, both Lincoln-Mercury dealers are pretty decent. One is a nationally owned dealer, the other is family owned. I deal with the family shop. They generally treat me like Gold in most respects. Their mechanics aren't always the best, but they do back flips to make me happy in sales & service. I used to drive Cadillacs, and the Cadillac dealer across the street was arrogant, elitist, unpleasant, no loaner cars, not even a smile when you pay your bill. So, while I'm sure there will be some crappy Lincoln dealers, I'm not impressed with Cadillac here at all.
Ford has a history of cheapening a brand. The Pinto based Mustang II, the Versaille, a Ford Granada, the Continental, a heavy-weight Taurus, etc...
I just wanted to share with everyone on the board that Lincoln vehicles sucks (especially LS). I currently drive an 01 LS V8 and it's the worst car I've owned during my 8 years of driving experience. Some of you mention this is a BMW fighter and a lot of other !@#$%^'s, but my comments to you folks... You guys are crazy! All of you folks probably wanted the following cars:
1. BMW 528/530
2. Lexus GS300
3. Audi A6
but couldn't justify/afford the extra $7k/10K.
Big mistake!!!! as I did - first, I got ripped on the car, 0% APR is attractive, but again - resale value !@#$%^& sucks.
This is my first american car after having driven only German/Japanese cars for the past 8 years... I just want to let everyone know that Lincoln is just not ready for prime time for BMW/AUDI/Lincoln and other nicer cars.
Also, for the folks currently considering a new purchase or lease of a Lincoln LS... please try to spend the extra $$$ and go elsewhere. You won't regret it!
If you are current posses a Lincoln LS and don't agree with me "please post a follow-up msg" or "send me an email"
H
6/13 @ 12:19PM EST
"I guess I don't get it, regarding the deletion of the 3.9. Why would Lincoln not prefer a Jaguar based engine since Lincoln is a premium vehicle over a Ford engine (4.6) that's been pushing around pickups, SUVs and Mustangs?"
Because it's diluting the Jaguar brand, something that makes more of a profit, over the Lincoln. So concentration on that, is being implemented.
And Ford's modular family has received numerous engineering awards by Wards Auto, over the 3.9L which only received it one year. The modular family are flexible enough for any application, and for every possible need. While I love the 3.9L's refinement, the 4.6L (with the proper tuning) can deliver a punch that the 3.9L would require more investment, to match. And if so, it would impede on the Jag variation which they simply will not allow. Stuff enough insulation, and program the transmission specifically, and the 4.6L can sound and feel just as refined as the 3.9L. It's just a give and take senario, but always possible.
Lexus, Inifiniti, Acura share their engines with their lower stablemates, but many seem to turn a blind eye to them for doing so, yet if Ford does it (Gasp) the horror....
After all, Aston Martin for decades shared its Spicer differential with U.S. postal mail jeeps, etc.
If both cars share the same dashboard and interior materials -- that is a sifferent matter -- but not sharing the same engine (and much more importantly) the same suspension.
After talking to another '00 LS owner who had the exact same problem, I belive the problem was the exhaust system vibrating. His Lincoln dealer solved his problem by welding some weights on the exhaust pipes, first time he brought it in complaining about it.
I suggested this to my dealer, but they weren't listening, which is my complaint about the 2 Lincoln dealers I tried for service. Both of their service departments only wanted to know was "What is the customer complaint" after that it's a black hole, which the paperwork barely telling you what they did let alone why and when they hand you the keys back they think the problem is fixed whether you do or not.
If I had it to do over again I would have stuck some weights on the exhaust pipes myself and given it a try. I usually work on my own cars and I can say initially I was a bit intimidated by the complexity of the LS, but once you get to know it, things aren't that hard to figure out.
Other than that one resonance problem, I had no other complaints about the LS and still miss it. The 51 MPH drone really didn't bother me. I'm debating whether to get a '03 LS now given the latest incentives, but since I have a 9 month old car and a 2 year old car I don't have any pressing need to buy another vehicle right now.
Another question. If Lincoln was unprofitable for a decade like Jaguar would Ford keep it alive or let it go? Is Jaguar more valuable brand than Lincoln ? And why American brands become expendible while Europeans are considered as a heritage. Even something like Rover is still alive, though there is no profit and even no sales, while 100 years old Oldsmobile is gone like many others (Packard, etc.). GM wastes fortunes on Fiat, Isuzu, Suzuki. For what reason ?
Which is why the next X-type is being based on another platform, over the current Mondeo based one. There's been too much critisizm over it's plebian roots, and sales are not as expected. Going on a larger platform, the next S-type will also grow a bit but not much. And overall engines will be shared with other PAG brands, look for a possible Inline engine. And for Jag to share it's V8 engine with Land Rover.
At this point, would you say that the exterior design direction is similar to the show vehicle that made the rounds of the auto shows? It was tagged a Continental, but it restored Lincoln to looking like a Lincoln again.
Anyway, my LS ('00 manual w/ only audio options) has continued to please. I just got home a few days ago from a 2K mile driveabout while my wife was at a conference, and the car was pure pleasure. It just turned 55K miles, and I'm on my own now (no warranty), so every little glitch seems much more important.
Either way, the next two years will tell the tale. My previous American (actually built in Canada) car was great for the first three years and went into the toilet in the fourth year. I'm moderately confident that the LS won't follow that pattern.
If it does, I'll never own another U.S. brand. So far, so good.
The part that's so discouraging is that the newly improved LS is no longer offered with a manual transmission. Originally, the manual was an option on the six. Now, with the CVT six, or better yet with a CVT 8, a manual would make the LS a real competitor with the best available elsewhere. For whatever reason, Ford thinks this is not "a better idea."
It's too early to tell yet, exactly the direction a vehicle might make. So many times, and what's usually the case, the manufacturer will parade 'concept' vehicles to test out consumer reactions, after that time, a vehicle can be severely altered from that starting point, then presented to various consumer groups, and have them nit-pick at the various elements, to see if it pleases the majority of people (Wonder what happened with the [non-permissible content removed]-tek).
So the concepts we have seen are a HINT of what CAN be expected, but maybe in different intepretations. As example, let's take the Mustang. Don't look too much at the hard edges, and too many of the folds/curves, but look at the story they are trying to communicate (short rear desk, stretched wheelbase, thicker platform, headlamps, tail-lamps) or like I tell some people "squint your eyes a bit, and what sticks out is what usually makes it at the end".
________________________________________________
CNPINHEAD,
So far I have 92,000 miles on my '00 LSV8 and so far no issue. I'm NOT the gentlest of driver's, and I make it a point to abuse a car to find it's weaknesses, and so far with regular maintenence, and my bad habit of changing extending oil life 2 times over, all is well.
I'm looking to buy another vehicle soon, but there's not many choices within the Ford family that has RWD and V8, which is why I've kept it this long and I'm sure I'll hit over 100K before I make a choice.
But trust me, if something would have broken down before 50K, I surely would have used it as an excuse to get something new, which is why I've held on to it this long.
I know it's not apples/apples comparing the 2003 TBird 2003 3.9 to the 94 Bird 4.6.
But, the point I was trying to make is that the 94 is a very competent car (except for having one of the worst transmissions that Ford ever made). It's "peppy", gets 20MPG in normal driving with mid-upper 20's on straight highway trips, and has gone over 100,000 with zero engine malfunctions.
But, the 2003 Bird, which might actually weigh more than the 94 model, is averaging 20 MPG while still not broken in, and, in relative terms, can really haul.
Which is what I'd expect for a car that's nine years newer; technology marches on.