No, the spellcheck doesn't cause a duplicate post. The spellcheck was absolutely horrid when we first came to Web Crossing, but it seems to me that all of the issues with it have now been resolved and I have come to trust it - believe me that's quite an endorsement! ; )
What DOES cause a duplicate post is to refresh/reload the screen after posting a message BEFORE going somewhere else. That's because of the way Web Crossing handles stuff -- there are codes in the URL that indicate what you are trying to do. If the code to "post a message" is present and you reload that URL, then whatever you just posted will repost regardless of the fact the message box was empty when you reloaded.
Dumb, I know, but it is what it is.
If you post a message, then click on a link like "Sedans" or anything that takes you somewhere else and THEN come back you can refresh/reload all you want without duplicating your message.
As long as you are logged in, you can ALWAYS delete any message you posted. There is no time limit on that.
As you mentioned, you can edit your post for about 30 minutes after you posted - that's the only thing that is time-limited.
Hate to go on topic here, but I'm currently renting an 03 LS, and am very impressed with the car overall, and specifically about a couple of things. I've rented them before, and recognized them for the incredible driver they are. I'm amazed at the ease of driving, the power, the control & handling. Now, I'm dazzled by the electronic parking brake! Finally, no more dumb handle to pull. Love the air conditioned seats! Wish it had a little more room in the back seat, I could be happy with this car. What a great car to drive!
I've also rented the 2003 LS at Hertz... I love these cooled seats in the desert sun, too. Unlike the 2002 LS, I would really like to treat myself and buy one of these. The LS is still a little pricey to me though; I might consider getting a Hertz w/miles on it if the price doesn't come down enough.
Before I go the Hertz route though, I'm giving incentives a chance to be offered first. I figure even Lincoln is going to pony up some more incentives w/all the competition gearing up for the 2004 models, GM's incentive wars and the like. Lincoln dealers are offering the "base" 6 for about $27,500 after rebate so how much more expensive can an LS8 w/power lumbar & 6 in dash CD player be in the next few months?
Prices should go down, if not tumble, when the new body design appears in 2004 or 2005, wouldn't you think? Especially since it is to have design cues from the sixties' slab styling. That will be quite a departure from current styling. Regarding the new design, with all the changes in management at Ford, will the new LS look like it was done by a committee?
Some of us aren't, given that the manual is no longer available.
The LS is a pretty nice package. It's a shame it wasn't marketed better over the past three years, and the dealer network isn't exactly a plus.
That said, if you're in the market for a sedan with power and handling, with an automatic transmission, the LS certainly ought to be in the running.
The styling thing is totally subjective. Witness the CTS vs Lincoln LS (for the three people on the planet who have actually done such a comparison & published the results) "discussion." The CTS people seem to not recognize that the LS is a player, and the LS people expend a remarkable number of calories taking shots at the CTS's styling.
I guess it's called competition. May the best vehicle win.
Any tips out there for cleaning the hard to remove brake dust from my 2 front wheels? I hesitate to use anything harsh due to the painted surface, but the wheels are in serious need of some sort of remedy.... Thanks in advance!
I am putting on new porterfield pads. Fronts went on like a breeze. I am having trouble with the rears as I can not get the piston retracted via using a C clamp. Any suggestions or what am I missing/doing wrong?
The rear brake piston retracts by turning the piston in. You need to get a piston retraction tool to turn in the piston. I know NAPA has them. It is a little square thing (uses a 3/8" ratchet drive), with protrusions that fit in the slots in the piston face. It takes some force to get the piston to retract.
Hi all first post here. I just need some info. I want to buy a lincoln LS who wouldnt. I am willing to spend $18,000 to $25,000 for a used lincoln yr 2000-2001-2002 model. I would like the car to have 35,000-45,000-50,000 miles on it. I dont have the money up front. But could make at least a $1,500 down payment. With my bugget I could only make $300 monthly payment. I just wanted to know is this realistic ??? What better place to ask. Thank all I love the LS.
I am buying my 2000 LS Sport V8 this week. My previous company leased it for me and now that the lease is done I have decided to buy it. My purchase price is 20k (the residual). I have only just turned over 30k miles. I have tried negotiating the price down but the dealer and Ford has been unwilling to come off the price.
I have seen cars like mine as low as 18.5k. But I know my car and how well it has been maintained. I also just did new tires and brakes so I would hate to throw away that money...
I have had all of the usual warranty issues fixed/replaced like the rear view mirror, Rear power windows, fogged headlights, tranny flash. The only problem I ever had was the tranny went out but they fixed it under warranty.
I love the car and decided to keep it. I am adding a Magnaflow exhaust. In 3 years I will probably get a new LS (depending on how I like the new style and performance).
The '04 LS hasn't changed much from the '03. Ford just released info on '04 models. There is an official Ford/Lincoln photo out there of a Vivid Red '04 LSE. Speculation about the '05 design is purely that: speculation.
First, wash them well with car shampoo. Second, give them two coats of Wheel Wax. Third, dust them regularly (every three or four days) with a microfiber towel or clean cotton terry towel. I suggest a very light misting with water when using a terry towel. You can also predust with at CA Duster before toweling to remove any parafin smudges left by the duster. Use this method only if you are cleaning light brake dust. If the wheels have gotten wet or otherwise dirty, wash the entire car instead. Works for me, been doing it for years.
Do the Silverstars look just like Xenon HID lights or just bright Halogens? are they worth changing the original LS bulbs?
I am asking because I like the Xenon look of acura, infiniti, BMW, etc. I am not paying for an '03 that will drop like a rock for that feature. Looking at '02 Sport with 12k miles for only 26k.
Other than the FWD vs RWD how does the LS8 compare with the I35/Maxima SE. Performance, reliabilty (especially at high miles-brake/rotors, trans, etx), handling, interior noise, etc.
I drove an Acura TLS and I like the performance but don't like how it fits me. Pesonal issue. Otherwise I would have thrown in a TL S-type too.
How does the I35 and LS8 compare. Can get '02's with low mileage for each. What's your take.
There should be a major difference in handling between these 2 vehicles on the twisties because of the FWD vs RWD configurations and the weight distrbution (almost 50/50 on the LS, no where near that on the Maxima). Drive them both for yourself.
I have a 2002 LS8 with 19,000 miles and have had no problems. I know several people with LSes with 60,000-105,000 and they are equally as happy.
I rented a Maxima 2003 with only 5K on the odo. The torque steer was the worst I have ever experienced and I have had many FWD cars. If you press the accelerator while cornering, it literally tries to rip the steering wheel from your hands. Just does not compare to the LS.
if you're a driver, there is no comparison between the Maxima/I-35 and the LS. Remember, the I-35 is a dolled up Nissan, the LS is the poor cousin to a Jaguar S-Type. The difference in engineering is dramatic. I like the Maxima/I-35 for a commuter car, it's functional and comfortable. But the LS is FUN to drive. If it had a back seat, I would own one.
I have a question- I am considering a used '01-'02 LS and would like to know if the LS's V6 powertrain is the same as Ford uses in the rest of the line (Taurus, etc.) or is it a different platform? The Edmunds editor review piece indicated that the LS is based on the same platform as the Jag S type- what does platform entail? Any opinions on the reliability of the LS?
The V6 is identical, in terms of platform, suspension (slight tuning in the shocks & possibly sway bars) and all else, to the V8's.
Several options aren't available w/ the 6 that are in the 8 (trip computer, etc.), but otherwise, the cars are identical. The six can be a dog off the line when it's new, but much better when broken in. In all cases, it's a real pleasure at high speed. This car (with the six or a diesel) was originally intended to compete in Europe, with the high-speed freeways, braking and inspection requirements. For reasons that we don't need to burden this board with, there are no LS's in Europe. It's a shame.
"the LS is the poor cousin to a Jaguar S-Type. The difference in engineering is dramatic"..."But the LS is FUN to drive. If it had a back seat, I would own one."
Care to be more specific on just how dramatically different the LS is as a "poor cousin" to the S-Type? Just how big do you expect a sport sedan's rear seat to be? At least the LS's is bigger than the bloody 5-Series.
The LS is built on the DEW platform, is not even distantly related to the Taurus or anything else in the Ford Stable. It's a Jag under there. My meaning was simply that rather than being a beefed up Maxima, as is the I-35, it's a slightly differentiated version of the S-Type. The underpinnings ae Jaguar, and it's a hell of a car with great engineering. My comment about the back seat was said in jest. I'm used to more room to drag clients around, that's all I love the car.
I own one of these babies. Mine has the 5Speed manual tranny. It's a pleasure to drive. At > 30,000 miles, no problems at all except for a few little PIA issues, all addressed by dealer. Nothing at all affecting driveability.
To add to what others have said, the LS and the Jag S-type were designed as platform-mates. So under the skin they're practically the same, although the Jag does have some computer-controlled suspension components which the LS does not. But they both have Formula-1 inspired aluminum suspension hardware and the cornering and stability is on a par with Beemers.
The drivetrain in the V6 LS uses a brand-new 5Speed automatic transmission that's not used in any other car (except the Jag) AFAIK. It's a great tranny, even if it had some growing pain issues. If you get one, make sure it has the latest 'flash' software. The engine, again in both the Jag and the LS, is a version of the Duratec V6, which is well regarded as to reliability. In the LS, it was tuned for 210HP in '00 and '01, upped to 220HP in '02. The Jag version always had more muscle due to the addition of variable cam timing, which the LS V6 got in '03 and now makes 235HP.
You are quite correct about Lincoln and the LS. By all accounts, the LS is a fine vehicle. It initially sold very well, but has dropped off. Despite that, sales are still very respectable, IMO.
I see the problem with the LS sales situation as three fold:
1. The exterior styling is very bland. Lincoln tries to portray this as an asset, but I don't see it. The LS basically blends in with a sea of mid-sized vehicles on the road today. There are people who want luxury without being noticed, but I'd guess there are more who do want a distinctive look in their luxury car.
2. Unlike with the CTS, the LS is not part of an overall brand strategy for Lincoln. I was amused to read a Ford exec talking about how LS owners wanted more performance and that is why they made some of the changes for the 04. Is Lincoln a performance division? No. That seems a bit anti-thetical to their "understated elegance" theme. This leaves the LS as a bit of a [non-permissible content removed] stepchild in the lineup of trucks and taxicabs. Which is a shame since it is such a good car by all accounts.
3. The marketing and positioning of the LS itself hasn't been that great. For example, Ford wants to market it as a performance vehicle (see the latest print ads claiming the LS outperforms the 540i), yet it killed off the manual edition and elected not to build a tuner version. I'm not sure Ford knows what to do with this car.
Ford apparently has plans for Lincoln going forward around new vehicles on the Mazda6 platform. We'll see where this leads, but I'm not hopeful that they will build a brand and a lineup that supports a car like the LS. The sad fact is that this car would probably be better off in somebody else's lineup.
Perceptive post. Originally (prior to Ford buying Volvo) the LS was intended to compete in Europe as a less expensive alternative to the Jaguar. That went away, as well as the manual and the 350 - 400 hp version, at least for now.
The faithful will tell you the high-performance version may still happen, but no one expects to see a manual anytime soon. Ford Motor Company's financial woes I'm sure enter into the situation, as well. GM has money & is spending it on the CTS, and the sales figures seem to indicate that it's working quite well, so far.
Some of us are very much in a "hide and watch" mode. So long as my LS holds up another 2 - 4 years, it's all academic to me.
is your comment on the exterior. I like it a lot. Look how BMW has messed up the 7 series trying to be "distinctive". Then there are weird cars like the Murano. I almost laugh out loud at the guys driving them. What are they trying to say?
I like the LS since it is agressive and very masculine and yet it is STEALTHY. Interestinly I do not like the Stype, too feminine.
I have ridden in a CTS and there is absolutly no comparison to the LS in terms of poise, handling, stability, and quality. The CTS sounded like a tin can and did not feel substantial like the LS. Just shutting the doors will tell you which is more solid. Not to mention that the CTS is ugly. The guy that had it has had terribly problems with water leaks completely filling up his rear passenger floorboard.
The new CTS with the Vette engine is interesting but I just could not see it in my garage.
Styling is of course a matter of personal preference. For what it's worth, I'm with you on the Murano. The other thing about that car is that it is so unique that it makes it blindingly obvious that the Infiniti FX 35 is just a rebadge.
The new 7 series did have its problems. However, with BMW in general, if you're driving a Bimmer, there's no doubt that anyone on the road who sees you will know you're driving a Bimmer. The same can't be said of the LS.
As for the CTS, I'm of two minds on the styling. I like the front end actualy (though would make some tweaks). It is the rear that I'm not a big fan of. The CTS is selling hot now, but only time will tell if it has staying power or if next year this time the Caddy Art & Science look will be yesterday's news.
Though I'm on record as not hating the CTS, I do not consider it a contender against the LS. With no V-8, and priced where it is, it's more 330i compatible, where the LS is more 540 compatible. I also prefer the LS looks to the CTS, which though not offensive, is wierd to me. The LS feels like quality from the door slam to the slolom.
While looking at purchasing a generic Camary or Accord, I happened to come across a 2000 LS. Due to an incredible price, I had to purchase it after reading much of what the people on this board have had to say. My question is one of a technical aspect, and I hoping there is someone out there with the right info. My LS is a V6 and I know that it doesn't have the Sport tuned suspension. My question is, can anyone tell me the specific difference between how the two suspensions are tuned. I know the sport is more stiff, but what about the physical differences. Different Struts and springs?.. factory anti-sway bars? Just wondering. I hope someone can help me. I only owned the car for a short time, and it is INCREDIBLE. Thanks for any info I can get.
Wow, how did we get to the Murano and FX from the LS? But while on the subject, and as my garage contains a 2000 MTX LS and a 2003 FX45, I need to make a comment on two previous posts concerning the Murano. The Nissan Murano is built on the FWD Altima platform, has IMHO slightly leading edge styling, and so-so performance with it's wierd CVT tranny. The FX platform is the FM RWD chassis from the 350Z, G35 Sedan and Coupe. The FX35/45 have an AWD system from the Japanese home-based Skyline, that only works to 13 mph. It is not intended for off-road, and it's only purpose is to put down the power to all 4 wheels under acceleration. At 13mph, it's 100% to the rear wheels. Don't mistake this car with an SUV. The FX45 is faster than any SUV tested at 6.3 0-60, and in the same C&D test in 02/03, it also pulled .87 on the skidpad. The secret is that it's 315 hp and 329 ft/lbs of torque only have to haul around about 500 lbs more weight than an LS. The FX45 suspension is not for weenies. 265/50/20 tires and Sport suspension mean no roll and a stiff ride. I cannot slide this car like I do in my LS. But then, I probably don't need to. I may take this thing to a Solo 2 here in San Diego and see what AWD does in the slow twisties. I still enjoy my LS MTX. The FX45 is a beast. It will not appeal to the masses. It's too cutting edge in looks and performance, and Joe Average wants something that hauls more, rides softer, and costs less. The FX gets more looks than the H2, and at 10 mpg, dismal 0-60 and .70g, slit-like windows, the only thing the H2 has going for it is a massive tax credit available for industrial and farm machinery that exceeds 6000 lbs. Tax credits are no fun to drive. Of course, "looks" are subjective, but watch out. The FX is just part of a trend that includes the Murano, the Chrysler Crossfire, the FX and a new Lexus crossover coming soon that looks alot like the FX. I wanted a vehicle with good performance numbers, the wife needed an auto tranny, and the kids wanted the DVD system and all the toys. If you want performance with an auto tranny, you need lots of HP. I still miss the shifting of a Manual. The FX has crisp shifts and a second gate with +/- but the control/timing with a manual just can't be duplicated perfectly. Maybe with some practice, anticipating the input lag. My problem is that power shifting with this beast puts me in ticket territory very fast. My only hope is that the cops think this is really just a wierd-looking Suburban, and not a vehicle that eats 4.6 X-5's and ML AMGs for breakfast. When Ford puts the Cobra drivetrain in the LS (an easy transplant), I'll be waiting at the dealer's door. You don't need "tuner" editions. Ford has all the hardware now. Just a longer driveshaft, especially if the 04 Mustang gets the DEW Lite chassis (with the Cobra LSD pumpkin please!)
Easy to tell the difference. If your '00 V6 is a MTX, it has the sport suspension. If it's an auto with 16" wheels, it's a non-Sport and will have chrome on the bumpers. A 2000 V6/V8 auto with Sport would have 17" Super Silver wheels and monochromatic trim (no chrome inserts on bumpers). Under the skin it has an engine oil cooler, firmer shocks and a larger diameter rear sway bar. The rear brake calipers are also aluminum like the fronts. I don't recall if the springs are different.
Thanks for the rear brake tool info. I got the $6 cube from Napa. Is there any special instructions or things I should be aware of in putting in porterfield rear pads?
Pluses: Much quicker/faster. Can also hear the engine a bit more but more deep exhaust. Feels more solid and and refined/quiet. A lot of little issues like the chintzy feeling turn signal stalk have been addressed. I like the handling a bit better, probably since the car came with Michelen Pilots. THX audio and navigation system is fantastic. Heated/cooled seats are very nice, adjustable pedals, rear parking assist, HID headlights, compass in mirror, Exposed straight back tail pipes/tips, Lot more interior space. The CD changer in the dash and the electric parking brake give much useable glove and console storage space. new 4/50 warranty and free maintenance up to 36k miles. 60 month 0%.
Wonderful car.
Minuses: The wood on the steering wheel and shift knob are not to my liking as much as the all leather. The chrome spoke wheels are still growing on me. I think the 2000 super silver wheels are some of the nicest looking wheels ever made. The electronic by wire throttle is harder to get used too. It is not as linear as a regular throttle. Very on or off. This is an issue that many have mentioned and hopefully Lincoln is refining and we can get a flash update...
The cost of a new car is also a minus. More than twice what it would have cost to buy out my 2000 lease... BUT, my wonderful 2000 was not worth what the residual was and they would not deal. Also had less than half the warranty left and no free maintenance. At 22k (after taxes, etc) financed for 3 years with interest payments were close enough to the 03 to make it worth the switch (in my demented mind. OK I know I am fooling myself. Clark Howard always says it is bad to buy a new car. I can't help it. It's a disease I have)
At 45,000 miles, just today replaced the original Firehawk 235/50-17's on my 2000 V8 Sport. Since I rotated all five tires, that's equivalent to 36,000 on a set of 4. Based on wet road slipping for last 5-7,000 miles, probably should have done it that much earlier - as the dealer had reco'd.
Had dealer put on four of the the Pilot Sport A/S's, same size. Installed, with balancing, they were $228 each. About same as Tirerack.com including installation. Pleased with that. Plus when I go in for regular maintainence now, dealer can continue to rotate also w/o me making another stop. Nice thinking about & time savings.
So far have just driven home them home 5-7 miles. Ride feels like new again. Maybe not, but certainly feel a big improvement. Clearly hadn't realized the deterioration. Also had alignment done & thus don't know which helped the most.
Want to thank everyone on here that reco'd the Pilot A/s's. This board was a big help on this (and other things.).
?: What is the wear experience are people having with the Pilot A/s's? Given I got the 32-35,000 miles on the Firehawks, what should I look forward to on the Pilots? Thanks.
P.S. While I had several of the production startup issues on my 2000 that this board warned me of, I've really enjoyed my LS & defintiely would consider when I buy again - in 3-4 yrs. I'm a buy & drive-into-the-ground kind of guy.
I put two of these on most of a year ago and two more about six months ago. The elder ones have over 15K on them and look quite good. The newer ones look fine too, of course.
I've heard that it's important to keep these rotated, and to watch them somewhat carefully. One of the LS faithful put a set of A/S's on and noticed quite a bit of wear in the centre of the rear tires within 10 or 15K. We all concluded that it was unusual.
General consensus is that these are excellent tires, but watch them, and report any "issues" to the dealer as soon as you notice them.
I just installed a Delphi XM tuner in my '00 LS8 Sport. I first installed it with the FM modulator to feed the signal to my stock 'Premium' in-dash changer head unit. The sound quality was very good but not great.
I found out that an outfit called PIE makes a neat gizmo the plus into the back of the factory head unit and creates RCA-type aux. inputs. It costs about $70 and the sound is now great. It even allows my factory integrated cell phone to work as before.
Now, to listen to XM, I simply push the CD button twice and instead of 'CD' being displayed on the screen, 'DJ' is displayed.
You can find them at www.xmfanstore.com and for Lincolns and other Ford products, the model # is FDRN-AUX. I understand that it also works with the Alpine unit and the glove box CD head unit. You can also use it for MP3 players, TV sound, etc.
I've got an '01 PP LSV8, and I'm not very kind to it. In other words, although it's maintained to a "T", I drive it hard. Very hard. Just turned 60,000 kilometers on it. The Canadian issue came stock with Bridgestone Turanza donuts on the 17" Super Silvers, and which were replaced at 45K kms with 245/45 Pilot A/S. Run them at 32 lbs. front and back, and they show very little wear. Whats more, they are wearing completely evenly across the footprint. Best advice yet from the "board members", as they provide phenominal traction wet, dry, or even white. Raised the "nosebleed on the on-ramp" quotient quite a few degrees!
Love the car! Best "all round" set of wheels I've owned to date, and will be replaced with the '03 or '04 LSV8 at the appropriate time unless I get a "senior's moment", which I'm not planning. Follow the board faithfully, and enjoy it almost as much as I enjoy my LS!
I just read a press blurb about Lincoln introducing an LSE model in '04 (late introduction). I was getting very excited thinking that we would finally be getting a real high performance version of the car, but it is only cosmetic changes.
Am I the only one holding out for an SVT LS with a supercharger and a 6 speed? When is Ford going to realize that the people that would buy an S-Type R are completely different from the crowd that would snap up a high performance LS?
I recently pulled the OE Pilot MXM4s off (with just 3000 miles on them) my '03 Premium Sport and replaced them with Pilot Sport A/S rubber. Big difference! Now my '03 feels more like my '00 Sport did. The MXM4s are nice tourers but the Pilot Sports are outstanding performance tires that don't sacrifice ride or quiet. Expensive but worth it!
Brooster, thanks for feedback. I told the dealer I wanted the A/S's in advance, but he must have been in the OE mindset as he first put the MX's on despite my specific A/S request. Fortunately I caught his error & made him change them before I drove off. He graciously acknowledged that it was his mistake. Cost me driving a loaner for 2 days till the A/S's arrived - & that car made me really appreciate my LS! Your comment sure makes me happy I insisted on the change to the A/S's.
"Am I the only one holding out for an SVT LS with a supercharger and a 6 speed? When is Ford going to realize that the people that would buy an S-Type R are completely different from the crowd that would snap up a high performance LS? "
I am on record as looking for such a vehicle. But I would not suggest holding out for one.
I believe that there are actually some people that would consider either / both. (Me, for instance.) And given a choice between an LS Prem Sport with a 6 speed and 4.2 motor and an S-Type Sport, I would choose the LS - every time.
(Not JUST because of Jag's J-Gate, but . . .)
I have noticed that the new Jag XJ (now with the 4.2 and 6-speed) posts EPA highway mileage est. of 28 (yes, 28) MPG. And the weight is very similar to the LS. The '03 S-Type 4.2 is listed at 26 - odd.
Anyway - this is clearly a marketing decision by FLM - as opposed to an engineering decision. As such, I hold out little hope that the R, the 4.2 or the 6-speed will be offered in the LS - because if they were going to do so (given the sales of the LS), they'd have done it by now.
One thing I found particularly interesting was how quickly the LS recovered after bouncing off the curbings at high speeds. One 'bounce' and the dampers quickly brought the car under control. Impressive, given the excellent ride quality.
car, and the Speed Channel commercial builds on that concept. Where was this three years ago?
What's also left unanswered is why such a car is in the Lincoln stable. The original concept was that the LS was going to compete with BMW & Audi on their home turf, plus kick butt back in the states. The reality is that they folded like a cheap tent and are very happy to market 99+% of the vehicles to the Lincoln faithful, who have not a clue what a suspension on a car even is, let alone that the LS has a good one. Senior Lincoln/Ford management has decided that they're "only" competing with Cadillac (not especially well, some would point out), as opposed to the world as a whole (including those pesky European & Asian brands).
Either way, the concept that Lincoln is a performance brand is going to be a pretty hard sell. Given how the LS has been handled to date, it's not too much of a stretch to conclude that the Lincoln LS team (and the 70 enthusiasts who wish otherwise) will eventually succomb to reality -- this car appears to be an orphan.
The good news is that the older LS's are coming off lease and/or are being traded in -- a whole new demographic is finding itself in possession of an LS. It's interesting to watch, though I wonder what the Lincoln marketing folks had in mind while I do so.
That aside, let's all hide and wait for that 350 - 400 hp LS with a 6-speed (manual) that will validate the Lincoln LS as a legitimate entry into the high-performance, high-dollar performance sedan world.
I think the LS was a well intentioned move on Lincoln's part, to drastically change their image. About this time, Lincoln was placed into the Premier Automotive Group with Jag, Aston-Martin, Volvo & Range Rover, and headquarters moved from Michigan to California. They were going to BECOME a performance brand, and the LS was the first offering. Then, as Ford does so often, management changed, profits fizzled, Nasser drop kicked the company onto its [non-permissible content removed], and they couldn't afford to re-engineer Lincoln into a domestic BMW brand. But, we have the LS. No where else to put it, and it sells pretty well, actually, and we love the car, once we've driven it, right?
Meanwhile, Ford starved everything else they had in the Lincoln showroom, in favor of "redefining the brand, LS style", so the Town Car gets no resources, the Continental is discontinued, (not altogether a bad decision), and the Blackwood gets an enormous investment to become the Edsel of the 00's. Sheeeesh.
Only the Navigator and the LS have received any attention of late, and now the Aviator, which is great, but has been made a little on the cheap here and there. I'm a loyal Lincoln fan - but I'm not sure they know where they're headed, and when my need for the big SUV is over, in about 3 years, and I'm looking for a nice old man's sedan to drive around, will they be there for me? I don't know. The LS is too young for me, the Town Car is too neglected and is outclassed by the Cadillac now, no Continental replacement yet - What's an old Ford guy to do?
ought to do is kill off Mercury and bolster the Lincoln Brand.
If Lincoln had been run like Caddy is we would have seen a new Mark IX based on the LS (2 door). We would have seen a baby Lincoln to compete with the 3 series and CTS. This could have been shared with Jag Xtype off the mondeo platform. The Town car would have been thouroughly updated and refined to become a reasonably inexpensive competitor to the 7 series/S Class. Then they could have branched out with a nice convertible sports type car like Caddy is. Finally a performance version of the LS/Mark (SVT,etc).
As it stands the only thing Lincoln is getting right is the SUV's and the LS (with the exception of LS marketing). Caddy went racing in the high brow snooty Le Mans series with a beautiful Riley and Scott chassis and a body that evoked the Art and Science Design theme. No they did not ever finish that well but the cars were used in many advertisements thus establishing Caddy as a performance brand (as opposed to "travel well").
I dearly love the LS and I have been a Ford guy through and through: My wife is on her 2nd Windstar, I had an Escort GT, Mustang, 3 Taurus SHO's in a row, a 2000 LS, and now the 2003 LS.
I am not a caddy or GM fan in the least but they are starting to do some things right.
What I am afraid of is I may have nowhere to go within Ford/Lincoln (unless I switch to Jag) to get the follow on to my 2003 LS. And if I am going to consider Jag I may as well venture out and test the Deutsch Iron.....
Comments
What DOES cause a duplicate post is to refresh/reload the screen after posting a message BEFORE going somewhere else. That's because of the way Web Crossing handles stuff -- there are codes in the URL that indicate what you are trying to do. If the code to "post a message" is present and you reload that URL, then whatever you just posted will repost regardless of the fact the message box was empty when you reloaded.
Dumb, I know, but it is what it is.
If you post a message, then click on a link like "Sedans" or anything that takes you somewhere else and THEN come back you can refresh/reload all you want without duplicating your message.
As long as you are logged in, you can ALWAYS delete any message you posted. There is no time limit on that.
As you mentioned, you can edit your post for about 30 minutes after you posted - that's the only thing that is time-limited.
Before I go the Hertz route though, I'm giving incentives a chance to be offered first. I figure even Lincoln is going to pony up some more incentives w/all the competition gearing up for the 2004 models, GM's incentive wars and the like. Lincoln dealers are offering the "base" 6 for about $27,500 after rebate so how much more expensive can an LS8 w/power lumbar & 6 in dash CD player be in the next few months?
Regarding the new design, with all the changes in management at Ford, will the new LS look like it was done by a committee?
Some of us aren't, given that the manual is no longer available.
The LS is a pretty nice package. It's a shame it wasn't marketed better over the past three years, and the dealer network isn't exactly a plus.
That said, if you're in the market for a sedan with power and handling, with an automatic transmission, the LS certainly ought to be in the running.
The styling thing is totally subjective. Witness the CTS vs Lincoln LS (for the three people on the planet who have actually done such a comparison & published the results) "discussion." The CTS people seem to not recognize that the LS is a player, and the LS people expend a remarkable number of calories taking shots at the CTS's styling.
I guess it's called competition. May the best vehicle win.
cwz
I have seen cars like mine as low as 18.5k. But I know my car and how well it has been maintained. I also just did new tires and brakes so I would hate to throw away that money...
I have had all of the usual warranty issues fixed/replaced like the rear view mirror, Rear power windows, fogged headlights, tranny flash. The only problem I ever had was the tranny went out but they fixed it under warranty.
I love the car and decided to keep it. I am adding a Magnaflow exhaust. In 3 years I will probably get a new LS (depending on how I like the new style and performance).
I am asking because I like the Xenon look of acura, infiniti, BMW, etc. I am not paying for an '03 that will drop like a rock for that feature. Looking at '02 Sport with 12k miles for only 26k.
I drove an Acura TLS and I like the performance but don't like how it fits me. Pesonal issue. Otherwise I would have thrown in a TL S-type too.
How does the I35 and LS8 compare. Can get '02's with low mileage for each. What's your take.
I have a 2002 LS8 with 19,000 miles and have had no problems. I know several people with LSes with 60,000-105,000 and they are equally as happy.
Several options aren't available w/ the 6 that are in the 8 (trip computer, etc.), but otherwise, the cars are identical. The six can be a dog off the line when it's new, but much better when broken in. In all cases, it's a real pleasure at high speed. This car (with the six or a diesel) was originally intended to compete in Europe, with the high-speed freeways, braking and inspection requirements. For reasons that we don't need to burden this board with, there are no LS's in Europe. It's a shame.
Get one. You'll like it.
Care to be more specific on just how dramatically different the LS is as a "poor cousin" to the S-Type? Just how big do you expect a sport sedan's rear seat to be? At least the LS's is bigger than the bloody 5-Series.
To add to what others have said, the LS and the Jag S-type were designed as platform-mates. So under the skin they're practically the same, although the Jag does have some computer-controlled suspension components which the LS does not. But they both have Formula-1 inspired aluminum suspension hardware and the cornering and stability is on a par with Beemers.
The drivetrain in the V6 LS uses a brand-new 5Speed automatic transmission that's not used in any other car (except the Jag) AFAIK. It's a great tranny, even if it had some growing pain issues. If you get one, make sure it has the latest 'flash' software. The engine, again in both the Jag and the LS, is a version of the Duratec V6, which is well regarded as to reliability. In the LS, it was tuned for 210HP in '00 and '01, upped to 220HP in '02. The Jag version always had more muscle due to the addition of variable cam timing, which the LS V6 got in '03 and now makes 235HP.
I hope this helps.
I see the problem with the LS sales situation as three fold:
1. The exterior styling is very bland. Lincoln tries to portray this as an asset, but I don't see it. The LS basically blends in with a sea of mid-sized vehicles on the road today. There are people who want luxury without being noticed, but I'd guess there are more who do want a distinctive look in their luxury car.
2. Unlike with the CTS, the LS is not part of an overall brand strategy for Lincoln. I was amused to read a Ford exec talking about how LS owners wanted more performance and that is why they made some of the changes for the 04. Is Lincoln a performance division? No. That seems a bit anti-thetical to their "understated elegance" theme. This leaves the LS as a bit of a [non-permissible content removed] stepchild in the lineup of trucks and taxicabs. Which is a shame since it is such a good car by all accounts.
3. The marketing and positioning of the LS itself hasn't been that great. For example, Ford wants to market it as a performance vehicle (see the latest print ads claiming the LS outperforms the 540i), yet it killed off the manual edition and elected not to build a tuner version. I'm not sure Ford knows what to do with this car.
Ford apparently has plans for Lincoln going forward around new vehicles on the Mazda6 platform. We'll see where this leads, but I'm not hopeful that they will build a brand and a lineup that supports a car like the LS. The sad fact is that this car would probably be better off in somebody else's lineup.
The faithful will tell you the high-performance version may still happen, but no one expects to see a manual anytime soon. Ford Motor Company's financial woes I'm sure enter into the situation, as well. GM has money & is spending it on the CTS, and the sales figures seem to indicate that it's working quite well, so far.
Some of us are very much in a "hide and watch" mode. So long as my LS holds up another 2 - 4 years, it's all academic to me.
I like the LS since it is agressive and very masculine and yet it is STEALTHY. Interestinly I do not like the Stype, too feminine.
I have ridden in a CTS and there is absolutly no comparison to the LS in terms of poise, handling, stability, and quality. The CTS sounded like a tin can and did not feel substantial like the LS. Just shutting the doors will tell you which is more solid. Not to mention that the CTS is ugly. The guy that had it has had terribly problems with water leaks completely filling up his rear passenger floorboard.
The new CTS with the Vette engine is interesting but I just could not see it in my garage.
http://www.freshalloy.com/site/cars/nissan/2003/murano/home.shtml
Heh heh
http://www.caddyedge.com/
The new 7 series did have its problems. However, with BMW in general, if you're driving a Bimmer, there's no doubt that anyone on the road who sees you will know you're driving a Bimmer. The same can't be said of the LS.
As for the CTS, I'm of two minds on the styling. I like the front end actualy (though would make some tweaks). It is the rear that I'm not a big fan of. The CTS is selling hot now, but only time will tell if it has staying power or if next year this time the Caddy Art & Science look will be yesterday's news.
But while on the subject, and as my garage contains a 2000 MTX LS and a 2003 FX45, I need to make a comment on two previous posts concerning the Murano.
The Nissan Murano is built on the FWD Altima platform, has IMHO slightly leading edge styling, and so-so performance with it's wierd CVT tranny.
The FX platform is the FM RWD chassis from the 350Z, G35 Sedan and Coupe. The FX35/45 have an AWD system from the Japanese home-based Skyline, that only works to 13 mph. It is not intended for off-road, and it's only purpose is to put down the power to all 4 wheels under acceleration. At 13mph, it's 100% to the rear wheels.
Don't mistake this car with an SUV. The FX45 is faster than any SUV tested at 6.3 0-60, and in the same C&D test in 02/03, it also pulled .87 on the skidpad. The secret is that it's 315 hp and 329 ft/lbs of torque only have to haul around about 500 lbs more weight than an LS.
The FX45 suspension is not for weenies. 265/50/20
tires and Sport suspension mean no roll and a stiff ride. I cannot slide this car like I do in my LS. But then, I probably don't need to.
I may take this thing to a Solo 2 here in San Diego and see what AWD does in the slow twisties.
I still enjoy my LS MTX. The FX45 is a beast. It will not appeal to the masses. It's too cutting edge in looks and performance, and Joe Average wants something that hauls more, rides softer, and costs less.
The FX gets more looks than the H2, and at 10 mpg, dismal 0-60 and .70g, slit-like windows, the only thing the H2 has going for it is a massive tax credit available for industrial and farm machinery that exceeds 6000 lbs. Tax credits are no fun to drive.
Of course, "looks" are subjective, but watch out. The FX is just part of a trend that includes the Murano, the Chrysler Crossfire, the FX and a new Lexus crossover coming soon that looks alot like the FX.
I wanted a vehicle with good performance numbers, the wife needed an auto tranny, and the kids wanted the DVD system and all the toys.
If you want performance with an auto tranny, you need lots of HP.
I still miss the shifting of a Manual. The FX has crisp shifts and a second gate with +/- but the control/timing with a manual just can't be duplicated perfectly. Maybe with some practice, anticipating the input lag. My problem is that power shifting with this beast puts me in ticket territory very fast. My only hope is that the cops think this is really just a wierd-looking Suburban, and not a vehicle that eats 4.6 X-5's and ML AMGs for breakfast.
When Ford puts the Cobra drivetrain in the LS (an easy transplant), I'll be waiting at the dealer's door. You don't need "tuner" editions. Ford has all the hardware now. Just a longer driveshaft, especially if the 04 Mustang gets the DEW Lite chassis (with the Cobra LSD pumpkin please!)
I bought a new 2003 V8 Premium Sport with all features.
Love the car.
I guess you are all stuck with me for a few more years!!!
What are the most significant pluses & minuses of your '03 vs. '00?
new 4/50 warranty and free maintenance up to 36k miles. 60 month 0%.
Wonderful car.
Minuses: The wood on the steering wheel and shift knob are not to my liking as much as the all leather. The chrome spoke wheels are still growing on me. I think the 2000 super silver wheels are some of the nicest looking wheels ever made.
The electronic by wire throttle is harder to get used too. It is not as linear as a regular throttle. Very on or off. This is an issue that many have mentioned and hopefully Lincoln is refining and we can get a flash update...
The cost of a new car is also a minus. More than twice what it would have cost to buy out my 2000 lease... BUT, my wonderful 2000 was not worth what the residual was and they would not deal. Also had less than half the warranty left and no free maintenance. At 22k (after taxes, etc) financed for 3 years with interest payments were close enough to the 03 to make it worth the switch (in my demented mind. OK I know I am fooling myself. Clark Howard always says it is bad to buy a new car. I can't help it. It's a disease I have)
Had dealer put on four of the the Pilot Sport A/S's, same size. Installed, with balancing, they were $228 each. About same as Tirerack.com including installation. Pleased with that. Plus when I go in for regular maintainence now, dealer can continue to rotate also w/o me making another stop. Nice thinking about & time savings.
So far have just driven home them home 5-7 miles. Ride feels like new again. Maybe not, but certainly feel a big improvement. Clearly hadn't realized the deterioration. Also had alignment done & thus don't know which helped the most.
Want to thank everyone on here that reco'd the Pilot A/s's. This board was a big help on this (and other things.).
?: What is the wear experience are people having with the Pilot A/s's? Given I got the 32-35,000 miles on the Firehawks, what should I look forward to on the Pilots? Thanks.
P.S. While I had several of the production startup issues on my 2000 that this board warned me of, I've really enjoyed my LS & defintiely would consider when I buy again - in 3-4 yrs. I'm a buy & drive-into-the-ground kind of guy.
I've heard that it's important to keep these rotated, and to watch them somewhat carefully. One of the LS faithful put a set of A/S's on and noticed quite a bit of wear in the centre of the rear tires within 10 or 15K. We all concluded that it was unusual.
General consensus is that these are excellent tires, but watch them, and report any "issues" to the dealer as soon as you notice them.
Enjoy.
I found out that an outfit called PIE makes a neat gizmo the plus into the back of the factory head unit and creates RCA-type aux. inputs. It costs about $70 and the sound is now great. It even allows my factory integrated cell phone to work as before.
Now, to listen to XM, I simply push the CD button twice and instead of 'CD' being displayed on the screen, 'DJ' is displayed.
You can find them at www.xmfanstore.com and for Lincolns and other Ford products, the model # is FDRN-AUX. I understand that it also works with the Alpine unit and the glove box CD head unit. You can also use it for MP3 players, TV sound, etc.
Love the car! Best "all round" set of wheels I've owned to date, and will be replaced with the '03 or '04 LSV8 at the appropriate time unless I get a "senior's moment", which I'm not planning. Follow the board faithfully, and enjoy it almost as much as I enjoy my LS!
Switching back to "lurk mode"...
Am I the only one holding out for an SVT LS with a supercharger and a 6 speed? When is Ford going to realize that the people that would buy an S-Type R are completely different from the crowd that would snap up a high performance LS?
Wonder why the MX's are OE versus the A/S's?
I am on record as looking for such a vehicle. But I would not suggest holding out for one.
I believe that there are actually some people that would consider either / both. (Me, for instance.) And given a choice between an LS Prem Sport with a 6 speed and 4.2 motor and an S-Type Sport, I would choose the LS - every time.
(Not JUST because of Jag's J-Gate, but . . .)
I have noticed that the new Jag XJ (now with the 4.2 and 6-speed) posts EPA highway mileage est. of 28 (yes, 28) MPG. And the weight is very similar to the LS. The '03 S-Type 4.2 is listed at 26 - odd.
Anyway - this is clearly a marketing decision by FLM - as opposed to an engineering decision. As such, I hold out little hope that the R, the 4.2 or the 6-speed will be offered in the LS - because if they were going to do so (given the sales of the LS), they'd have done it by now.
- Ray
Hoping to be proven wrong . . .
One thing I found particularly interesting was how quickly the LS recovered after bouncing off the curbings at high speeds. One 'bounce' and the dampers quickly brought the car under control. Impressive, given the excellent ride quality.
Just my opinion.
- Ray
Opinions always free . . .
What's also left unanswered is why such a car is in the Lincoln stable. The original concept was that the LS was going to compete with BMW & Audi on their home turf, plus kick butt back in the states. The reality is that they folded like a cheap tent and are very happy to market 99+% of the vehicles to the Lincoln faithful, who have not a clue what a suspension on a car even is, let alone that the LS has a good one. Senior Lincoln/Ford management has decided that they're "only" competing with Cadillac (not especially well, some would point out), as opposed to the world as a whole (including those pesky European & Asian brands).
Either way, the concept that Lincoln is a performance brand is going to be a pretty hard sell. Given how the LS has been handled to date, it's not too much of a stretch to conclude that the Lincoln LS team (and the 70 enthusiasts who wish otherwise) will eventually succomb to reality -- this car appears to be an orphan.
The good news is that the older LS's are coming off lease and/or are being traded in -- a whole new demographic is finding itself in possession of an LS. It's interesting to watch, though I wonder what the Lincoln marketing folks had in mind while I do so.
That aside, let's all hide and wait for that 350 - 400 hp LS with a 6-speed (manual) that will validate the Lincoln LS as a legitimate entry into the high-performance, high-dollar performance sedan world.
Don't hold your breath.
As others have said, I'd love to be wrong.
Meanwhile, Ford starved everything else they had in the Lincoln showroom, in favor of "redefining the brand, LS style", so the Town Car gets no resources, the Continental is discontinued, (not altogether a bad decision), and the Blackwood gets an enormous investment to become the Edsel of the 00's. Sheeeesh.
Only the Navigator and the LS have received any attention of late, and now the Aviator, which is great, but has been made a little on the cheap here and there. I'm a loyal Lincoln fan - but I'm not sure they know where they're headed, and when my need for the big SUV is over, in about 3 years, and I'm looking for a nice old man's sedan to drive around, will they be there for me? I don't know. The LS is too young for me, the Town Car is too neglected and is outclassed by the Cadillac now, no Continental replacement yet - What's an old Ford guy to do?
If Lincoln had been run like Caddy is we would have seen a new Mark IX based on the LS (2 door). We would have seen a baby Lincoln to compete with the 3 series and CTS. This could have been shared with Jag Xtype off the mondeo platform. The Town car would have been thouroughly updated and refined to become a reasonably inexpensive competitor to the 7 series/S Class. Then they could have branched out with a nice convertible sports type car like Caddy is. Finally a performance version of the LS/Mark (SVT,etc).
As it stands the only thing Lincoln is getting right is the SUV's and the LS (with the exception of LS marketing). Caddy went racing in the high brow snooty Le Mans series with a beautiful Riley and Scott chassis and a body that evoked the Art and Science Design theme. No they did not ever finish that well but the cars were used in many advertisements thus establishing Caddy as a performance brand (as opposed to "travel well").
I dearly love the LS and I have been a Ford guy through and through: My wife is on her 2nd Windstar, I had an Escort GT, Mustang, 3 Taurus SHO's in a row, a 2000 LS, and now the 2003 LS.
I am not a caddy or GM fan in the least but they are starting to do some things right.
What I am afraid of is I may have nowhere to go within Ford/Lincoln (unless I switch to Jag) to get the follow on to my 2003 LS. And if I am going to consider Jag I may as well venture out and test the Deutsch Iron.....