Our Dallas chapter took to the high banks of Texas Motor Speedway Saturday night for a charity drive. Our 2 hour wait netted us about 5 minutes of track time, but it was worth the wait. I've run this track in a Winston Cup car at over 160 mph and can honestly say I felt as confident in my LS at 100 mph with the AC on and Beach Boys playing. Seeing 3 other LS's under me (I took the high line) was quite a sight. If you ever get the chance to try your LS on any type of course, you'll truly appreciate what you have under you.
My notice from Lincoln came and they will let me out of my lease 8 months early if I lease or buy a new LS. I now have the base 6 cyl car and would do it again for the 2003 model. Does any body know how much the holdback is and are their other incentives to the dealer? I have been told that holdback is 2% of MSRP plus a rebate of 2.5% of total invoice to CERTIFIED dealers. I like the 2003 and hear that they are not selling as well as the past models. Lincoln is trying to get sales up. Any comments that will allow me to make a good deal. I'm in So. West Florida.
FWIW they are advertising the base 2003 LS v6 including rebate for $27,500 - $27,900 here in Nevada this past week.
I also rented a 2003 LS this past week finally... what a BEAUTIFUL running car. Lincoln really did a job on the 2003; too bad it's so underrated.
Anyone know if the 2004 is coming out in the next handful of months? Wonder what incentives with be offered to get rid of the leftover 03s?? Might save thousand$ here on top of a rebate with just a short wait.
I have a 2002 V6 LS and it is in the shop again today for the 4th time since I purchased it. This time I am being told my swaybar end-links are gone, the car rattled something awful over bumps. The last time it was in was because the front tire was squealing when I turned the wheel at all and come to find out my wheel bearings were gone. Is anyone else having problems like this? I love,love,love my car but these problems seem a little strange for a car that just turned 8,000 miles. (the wheel bearings were gone at about 5,000 mi.)I am also having a problem with it stalling when it is taken out of park, it just dies, that they cannot seem to fix. It does it very sporadically, with no rhyme or reason to when it is happening, cold-hot-dry-raining.....anyone have any ideas on this one??
Sorry to here your having all these issues with your 02'LS. I remember something about the swaybar end-links a while back, but I checked my personal LS library and couldn't come up with any TSB or saved discussion pertaining to it. I checked into the other issues also and couldn't locate anything specific. The only problem that I have had with my 02'LS, has been leaking valve cover gaskets which caused a burning odor inside the car. My 00'LS on the other hand more the it's share of problems. Sometimes your the windshield and sometimes your the bug.
The Stabilizer Bushings are a known problem with the LS. I'm not offering this as an excuse, but as far as I know, model years 2000-2002 have been affected by this problem. I've yet to suffer this indignation on my 2000, but I could see where it would bother me to no end!
Wheel bearings, ah, here's the conundrum of modern manufacturing. Please remember that these are supplied by outside suppliers and that this is outrageously low mileage to have them "eat themselves", but it does happen. Years ago, (I hate how that constantly works it's self into my lexicon) I remember where a BMW 318 ate it's rear wheel bearing during a comparison test (R&T) and was left by the side of the highway, yet it won the comparison test!??
The stalling out of Park is a new one on me. I know that there is a process for "training" the transmission, but I'm not sure that this would apply. Make sure that you LS has the latest version of the transmission software installed, if that's applicable.
Hopefully, it will quickly restart once you slip it into neutral, then on your way you go once again. I don't suffer this problem myself, I only get the "too" rich syndrome, where it stumbles and idles roughly until operating temperature has occurred.
As far as ideas to the running of your LS, we need more information. Can you pin point when this might happen. I could steer you to a web site that might help where you can post your question.
Settle down Pat, the site would be FlatRateTech.com, there are many Ford, Mercury and Lincoln Mechanics that can help you out with you idle situation. I'm sure that they would have more ideas that I do!
Well this Saturday will mark 2 weeks without my 00 V8 Sport. They are still waiting on parts. The only updates I get are from my own calls. They never call me to tell me what is going on.
Thank god my lease is almost over.
I am now leaning toward a Subaru Impreza WRX STi.
0-60 4.9 1/4 mile 13.3 @ 103 MPH Braking from 60 111 ft. Slalom 68.4 0.88G on skidpad $32,550
For gods sake a BMW M5 is:: 0-60 4.8 1/4 Mile 13.3 @ 108.5 MPH Braking from 60 116 Ft Slalom 66.4 MPH 0.85G on Skidpad $72,645
The Suby may be the best bang for the buck performance sedan in the world...
The static figures are impressive indeed. Check out the latest Road and Track, you may want to check out the newest Dodge Neon.
I'm sorry that you're so uninspired about your LS due to the problems you had with your it and it's lease, but if it cures your whining, things might be looking up for everyone involved.
Your comparison of the Subarau WRX only shows how diverse of vehicle's you are looking at, but you show an absolute lack of reality comparing a Subaru WRX, Lincoln LS and then a BMW M5.
We've dealt with sour grapes here before, and the taste here is familiar. I won't call anyone out here, but please post any positive posts that you've written about the LS immediately following.
Keeleyo, lot's of luck with you future choice. I hope that it will live up to your highest standards, whatever they are.
Thanks for the insight. I guess I should be thankful that the things that are going wrong are "little things". It's just more of an inconvenience more than anything to have to keep dropping my car off at the dealer, at least this time I actually got a Lincoln Town Car as a loaner, I usually get a junky Mercury Villager (mini-van) or a Taurus. The Taurus I can deal with but the mini-van...please. If I wanted a mini-van I would have bought one. As for the stalling there really is no rhyme or reason at all to it. Sometimes it does it twice in one day and then it won't happen again for another 2 weeks - very frustrating and embarrassing when my $38k car won't start.... Again, I love,love,love my car. Wished I has waited for the 03's though, hindsight is 20/20 right?? I do have to say though after driving this 03' Town Car for the last 2 days I can definitely see myself in one of those in about 30 years when I'm 60...what a sweet ride. Thanks again to everyone for their insight.
I agree that the Suby, LS, and M5 comparo is night and day. If performance is my sole criteria then bang for the buck goes to the Suby. Obviously the m5 is in a class by itself (and the E55, Audi Rs6). I subscribe to R&T and C&D so I have read all of the latest issues. The Mitsi Evo is nice too and I do like the Dodge you mentioned. I also see that caddy is coming out with the LS6 version of the CTS with the 6 speed.
When I leased my LS 3 years ago My hopes were that they would have an "SVT" version by this time at a price around or under 50k. THAT is what I want and cannot have unless I go to the Caddy but I think the CTS is hideous. I still plan on driving my play-toy Jeep Wrangler through the summer and then reconsider my options.
It is nice to be in the drivers seat and not have to do anything until it is right and feels right to me. I have not totally ruled out the 03 LS either and maybe when the 04's are out I can get a good 0% deal on a loaded 03 (THX Nav V8 Etc) say 40kish... My previous post was a bit of a rant since I have been without my ride. All in all until this Transmission problem I have had a very good experience with the LS. However, there are now so many choices in the 30-50k range that were not there 3 years ago. Lincoln needs to smell the roses.
If I appear to be fickle it is because I can afford to be... (the benefit of having a 3rd car paid off)
I know 0-60 is a single measurement but if you car has the grunt to hit 60 in less than 6 seconds then it can be felt across the range of driving activities.
The LS has everything I want except a 6 speed and about 1/2 to 3/4th a second to 60. I would love an LS that hits about 5.5 to 5.9.
For less than 50k.
So what I am doing now is listing all of the cars that meet this and then eliminating the ones I do not like.
I will tell you this: I keep coming back to the Audi S4...
2003 LS V8 today when I went to pick up my (finally) repaired '00.
I was duly impressed. The THX is very nice as well as the nav. The cooled seats are very weird but I like them. The power is much better and very noticable compared to my 00 V8. Brakes and handling are improved. The sounds coming from under the hood and out the nice exposed tail pipes are an improvement as well.
Several nits: The Throttle is like an on/off button. It is not linear at all and you have to mash down quite a ways before anything happens.. After driving my car home I definately prefer the direct linkage over the throttle by wire.
I do not like the wood steering wheel. My hands kept slipping on turns. Dangerous in my opinion.
The wheels are nice but I also like the sport wheels.
47k is a bit high too. (I looked at a LOADED Navigator with a dual screen video system that was only 51k)
The solution might be a sport with the THX/Nav added. Then I would get different wheels, Leather steering wheel, and Leather shift knob.
I remember a recent car magazine that said that a V-6 Accord beat the Mercury Marauder by half a second. The 540i is so heavy it only beats the new LS by .01 to .02 seconds. The 0-60 numbers are quite relative. In most cars, you can't judge it unless you have a 3rd wheel or other instrumentation. Everyday driving is a more important criteria. The new RX-8 Rotary is 5.9 but you have to dump the clutch at high rpm to get that time. The car has almost no torque at lower rpms. The WRX is not as bad but you have to keep the turbo spooled up. We Americans are used to stump pulling torque. The LS may not be as fast as some, but it is a highly satisfying street car with great balance. Like 8 or 9's in every category instead of a 10 in one and 6's in the rest.
stanny1... You wrote "The 540i is so heavy it only beats the new LS by .01 to .02 seconds." I'm assuming you are talking about 540ia. According to BMW, the '03 540ia weighs 3,803 pounds and the 540i6 weighs 3,748 pounds. In comparison to MB, Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. V8s, think the weight is reasonable. What does a loaded '03 LS8 weigh?
According to the June 2003 issue of Motor Trend, their '03 540ia Sport went 0-60 mph in 6.2 seconds. One key area is whether the 540ia has the Sport Pkg. The Sport Pkg provides a 3.15:1 final drive ratio. The base 540ia uses a 2.81:1 final drive. (The 540i6 comes only with the 2.81, while the M5 uses the 3.15.) The current E39 5 Series came out in CY1996 as a MY1997. That was an eternity ago, but she still acquits herself magnificently.
Actually, I did not look up the weight of the 540i, but I know the weight of the M5, and I guess it is substantially heavier for some reason (must be the NOX system- HA!). I see two markets in the 4 door "near-luxury" sedan segment. One is the heavier, more loaded and luxurious sedans like the LS, the 540, etc with automatic trannys. The other category is the lighter, less luxurious, and smaller sedans also available in MTX form like the IS300 and Infiniti G35. Right now, you could buy an MTX G35 with six-speed Manual with leather for about $32,500. And that's less than 6 seconds 0-60. Resale value and residuals on the Manuals are low, as is the LS even in Auto, and the BMW is probably better, even in Manual trim. But finding a 540i MTX is probably harder than finding an M5, and about as hard as getting an M3 for sticker. Even the O3 V-8 LS is out of my league. I draw the line at $500 a month, even though my CPA says I need more write-offs.(I still owe the IRS 10k). Maybe I should lease a Maserati! Ha!
stanny1... You should check out the May 2003 issue of C&D.
BMW M5= 3,995 pounds (curb weight) Jaguar S-type R= 4,066 pounds Audi RS6= 4,229 pounds MB E55 AMG= 4,237 pounds
BMW M3= 3,394 pounds (curb weight) MB C32 AMG= 3,651 pounds Audi S4 Quattro= 3,864 pounds
Notice who is lightest? And notice that the 3 over 4,000 pound sumo heavyweights in the top listing need forced induction to overcome their weights and ATs?
[BMW is soon to release its lightweight version of the M3, the M3 CSL. It drops 243 pounds and adds 17 hp. Prefer that to forced induction any day.]
<<regnmstr - my dealer said the exacat same thiing - it's a sealed unity and does not need to be changed. I actually asked my local mechanic to do it - when I picked it up, he complained how hard it was to do. Turns out he damaged the plug and overfilled it - had to bring it to LM to repair the damage.>>>>>>>
Thanks for the insight. I got back to the dealer's service dept. since my wife didn't ask too many questions after she was given the sealed story. As expected they don't have the equipment to do the transmission fluid change BUT it's on order and they expect it in in a month or so. I guess at that time since they will have to pay for the machine they will no longer tell people it's a sealed system and changing the fluid is not recomended. New car dealers service departments just kill me.
Yes, I read that issue. That's where I picked up on the M5's weight. I still can't figure out why it's heavier than the 540i. Maybe the ZF Manual vs the GM automatic? I agree with Colin Chapman - lighter is better, even with the same hp/lb ratio. I'm still trying to figure out where all the weight is in the LS. Aluminum hood, quarter panels and trunk lid, suspension arms. Gee, without these, what would it weigh? 4300? If I were the car compnies, I would use skinny midgets for the car tests. Maybe robot drivers or automated radio-activated steering, brake and throttle for the straight-line tests.
stanny1... Don't forget that the M5 uses a 4.9L V8 versus the 540i's 4.4L V8. And the M5 has over 100 more HP. Everything is beefed up. Heavy-duty clutch. Or more sophisticated. 8 individual throttles. Rides on bigger tires and wheels. Has bigger brakes. Comes standard with more things, too. Has few options.
I haven't been following this disussion close but I saw the M5? Now there is no way that car can be brought into this. I have raced my best friends M5 with our GS430 and that blows ours away. In fact we are thinking of getting a m5. But otherwise I am looking for a car and the LS looked good for me. But I was just wondering how they last, I only drve 10k a year.
I am pretty sure they will fit as they are both built on the same platform and utilize similar tires so don't see why not. Go to a local dealer and/or compare to another LS.
Best Regards, Victor. I will ask a Thunderbird owner that is a member of our local LS Group and post back.
My Tri-color 2000 MTX is going into the shop for a strange rear axle noise. It makes a hum that is proportional to speed. At low speeds, there is actually a vibration. The hum or grinding sound is worse on left turns and less on right turns. I think this can be explained. Whatever is failing is on the passenger side, since the noise increases with load on left turns. It may be a bearing, but I think it's one of the "U-joints" on the half shaft. The right tire is the lightest loaded and the one that spins and wears the fastest. A couple of Manias and having a manual tranny increases the shock loading on this side. I'm hell on drivetrains. This is a similar problem to the joint failure on FWD cars, but FWD drive cars have increased weight to aggravate the problem. Since this is probably a rare situation, I expect my car to be tied up at the dealer for at least a week, as the parts required probably won't be on the Left Coast. I will provide periodic reports for the curious. The car has been bulletproof for almost 3 years.
Last December, I got a "free" rental from the dealer who actually uses Hertz. I think it was about $50 for two days. The extra coverage I bought was probably not necessary, as my insurance might cover the liability/damage to the rental car. Hertz makes it sound so important. I take my wife to work everyday since her job as an RN in a local hospital syncs with my schedule (self-employed), so her Volvo just sits in the garage (8 years old and 50k). I'll just drive the Brick for a week or so while Whitey is in the hospital. Hertz has no "fun" cars. Just too late, I guess. In the 60's, I could have rented a Shelby Mustang!
I have a 2000 (Received in December, 1999) LS-8 Sport/SST pushing 40K miles. I have had one problem with the car; a bad connection between the connector and cable on the Passive Anti-theft System. It was tricky to find, but trivial to fix.
Other than that, NO PROBLEMS whatsoever. It has been a superb driving car, and we've taken trips all over the USA, including CA Highway 1 and many mountain roads through the rockys as well as long hauls across Kansas and Texas. It is quiet, comfortable, and still tight as a drum. We are seeing about 18.5 MPG in the city and 26 MPG on the highway. There are very few cars that can follow it around curves or corners if driven in a spirited fashon. It is a lot of fun to drive. It compares in size more to a BMW 7-series than to a 3 or 5 series car. It is a lot of car for the money, and just plain a lot of car....
It gives every indication that it is going to last a long time.
It's a little early yet, but, I will be turning in this fall my leased Lexus GS400. I love the car but will not go Lexus again because '04 GS400/300 is basically the same car I have now; my wife has an ES300 and LS430 is too pricey for our budget.
My wife and I have had 4 Lexus products and are a bit spoiled with Lexus quality and service.
In considering a different car, we have decided to go with a 6 cylinder version, automatic with premium options; i.e. moonroof etc.
We are considering the following: Lincoln LS6, Jaguar X-Type 3.0, and Cadillac CTS 3.6 (coming out in 04).
We would appreciate your experience and comments on quality, service, reliability and performance on the above automobiles.
Also, we hear that some domestic manufacturers give a special discount (on top of negotiated deal)for customers who leave foreign manufacturers; i.e. Toyota, Honda, etc; to purchase domestic products. Is that true and how do we find out about these programs.
Further information. I am 57 years old 5'10" 225lbs. Live in Chicago area. (2000 GS400 was terrible in snow).
I had my powerful car experience with the GS400. 0 - 60 in 6.2 seconds, had dealer installed radar to help avoid tickets.
Today, I am mellowing a bit. Looking for comfort features in something fun to drive that looks good and is less expensive in price than the Lexus GS400 product and a bit more economical to run.
My biggest concern in leaving Lexus is the quality, service and customer care I have received from the dealers and Lexus management. I hope to find that level of quality and customer service in another manufacturers product.
Hey, nice 'problem' to have! Which great car to buy. Just my 2 cents follows:
Of the 3 cars you're considering, I think the weakest entry is the X-type, simply because it may be too small for your taste. It's built off the Ford Mondeo platform with, of course, some 'bettermments' thrown in. The 3.0 will perform very well in it and the AWD is certainly nice in the winter. But it's pretty pricey for what u get, IMHO.
I haven't driven a CTS, but have looked carefully at them and it appears to be a worthy competitor for the LS. But of course it's definitely an acquired taste, looks-wise. I think they're upgrading the interior a bit in '04. Don't know about the 3.6 at all, but any performance improvement in any car is always a plus in my book. Overall though, I think you'll find the CTS does not quite keep up with the LS performance and handling-wise. Surprise! My vote would go to the LS. I guess I'm biased - I own a 2001 V6 with the 5-speed manual. Nice ride. Been perfectly reliable mechanically. Some little nits have caused some extra dealer shop time, but I've got no complaints about the car. The V6 now (03) has VVT and 235 hp with a flatter torque curve than mine. Performance should be pretty good. Handling is outstanding (better than the 540i the tests say) That said, if you could spring for the 280 Hp V8 (also with VVT) you'd have a car with performance approaching the GS400 for much less $$$. Also, for some reason Lincoln left out the instrument panel computer on the V6. V8 gets it, so if you like that sort of thing V8 is a must. The LS has better 'roots' than the X-type, maybe even the Caddy as it was designed in parallel with the Jag S-type with which it shares most of the under-pinnings. The seats have always been great and this year they've added adjustable pedals, so driving position should be very comfortable.
Speaking of the S-Type, you may want to add that to your list. Beautiful car. 3.0 V6 in it is a reasonable engine.
Now for dealer service. I can only speak for my experience. Bought my car at a Ford Lincoln/Mercury dealership. So their mechanics are more used to seeing F150s and Foci than a Lincoln LS, especially one of the 600 or so ever made with a manual tranny. That has cuased me some problems. But they always have a loaner car ready if they're keeping mine overnight. I gotta reserve in advance though if I want a Lincoln. Otherwise it's usually a Windstar or Sable. The dealership owner and my sales gal have been GREAT. The service mgrs (there have been 3 or 4 since I bought) have always been respectful and have mostly tried to keep me happy (which ain't always easy). But I must say my overall rating of service dept would be no better than 7/10. A strictly L/M dealer would probably be better. Caddy? Jag? I dunno. But in short, I think you are right to be concerned about this part of leaving Lexus.
I think the 03 LS V-8 was made for you. It's the secret under-rated car that not every one drives. So you will be noticed more than with the Lexi which all have such plain Toyota-like styling. While the GS 400 may be .2 seconds faster, you'll find the LS interior probably as luxurious and full-featured, and also roomier. You will find the LM dealers well-stocked with product, and you can probably cut an unbelievable deal on a loaded V-8 LS. You just cannot beat the value. As Heyjewel said, the LS shares the same race-defined chassis as the Jag S and T-Bird. This chassis design is so expensive to produce, Ford can't afford to use it on lesser cars. Your LS should easily out-handle your GS. I have never had any serious issues with my LS, and most were teething issues typical with "first-year" introductions. Besides having all those addressed, LM has made over 500 improvements for 03. Take a test drive. The first corner will convince. The "LS Bonus" is the comaraderie here and on the LLSOC website which will provide you with a lot more enjoyment with the car than you could ever have with a another make. LS MANIA IV is happening this Summer, and as a veteran of 2 of the last three, I can tell you that no make has the factory support, communications, and connections that LLSOC members and LS Owners have. A free 6 month membership to LLSOC is included with your new LS (It's with the owner's manual material). By the way, I'm 55, 5'10' and over 200 lbs also. The seats are spectacular. But I really appreciate the handling. Ask the guys on this board. They know how I like to take a "spin" in an LS.
One of my employees acquired the CTS a few months ago. He also has a Lexus as his other car. Although he is still in love with the Caddy, or at least his wife is, he has had a few little niggling problems he has not been used to with the Lexus in the past. Also, the dealer is somewhat unresponsive to his complaints. He says the car is a performer and a great road car. It may be a good alternative for you. Personally, I don't care for the way the car "feels" (I have tried his out). You sit way low, inside a bathtub IMO. Cowl position seems way high to me. I'm almost as big as you, and it's roomy, but not my style, and the inside is #1 with me. I have rented lots of Lincoln LS models in the past, and always enjoy them because of the way they perform. I do drive them irresponsibly though, and am better off in my Titanic SUV probably. But the LS is more comfortable to me. Only downside besides the overall size, which I consider to be a bit small for my taste, is the lack of interior storage room. I have lots of "stuff" I take with me - no place to put them while I drive except the other front seat. But it's a hellova driver's car!
JAG X - Another of my employees bought an X type late last year, and I have been amazed with how good it is, for as little as it is. She has had zero issues or problems with it, and it seems to hold up great. Not sure it's near the performer either the CTS or LS is, but it's nice to drive, and a remarkable car for the price. Quite the value is my bottom line on that one....
We're getting ready to replace my wife's 98 Catera. It's a wonderful car, especially at high speed. German roots, you know. Too bad it was so underrated by the media. But our problem has been Cadillac service. The Catera ate trough tires like I was Bibi the Michelin Man even though it had been aligned by the dealer twice. We had to put the third set of tires on at 44K miles. We're looking at the 04 LS V-8, S-type V-8, BMW 530i or MB E-320 - NOT anything from Caddy. The CTS might be a fine car - if you can get past the styling - but if Caddy doesn't know you when you have a problem, they're not worth your money. BTW, has anyone really looked at the interior of a CTS? Seems like Caddy went to a lot of trouble to make leather look like naugahyde.
I don't care for the interior of the CTS either, feel like I'm sitting in a bathtub. Didn't notice the leather imitating vinyl, but I'll take your word for it. I don't mind the outside though.
I'm very impressed with the way the LS handles and feels. You should drive one if you haven't. They are an amazing machine. The Jag feels a bit more statly, like you should call it Stuart, or something. I'm not a BMW fan, so I'll just leave it at that. My only knock on the LS is the lack of interior storage compartments. Pretty normal, I guess, but I'm used to some more space.
I feel the need to point out the '00-'02 LS was a bit short on interior storage. But the 2003s have quite a bit more - better, bigger door pockets, doors also designed to give occupants more room and easier access to seat controls. But the big improvement is the console. Space is probably 4 times or more bigger than old, the top, which doubles as an arm rest, moves fore and aft - this made possible mainly by replacing the pull-lever hand brake with an automatic electronic parking brake. Nice in itself.
NOW, we're talking!!!!! That's exactly what I was saying, and evidently I wasn't alone. That is just what it needed. Thanks for pointing that out to me, jewel, I will give it another look.
Conversely, my 99 Navigator had TONS more space to put stuff, or cubbie holes for my cubbies, as I like to call them. In the new interior, which is beautiful, I agree, I have only one small door pocket, and 2 cupholders up front. The old one had huge door pockets, side console pockets, and a large box in the console (unless you had navigation, which I didn't), and 4 cupholders and an ashtray all up front. I miss it.
My 2000 LS has been virtually flawless and after 4 years and 60,000 is still tight as a drum. However, I noticed this morning a slight "jingle" noise coming from inside the passenger seat back when it is not occupied and when driving over rough pavement. It kind of sounds like a spring making contact with another spring.
I want to remove the molded plasic that is on the back of the seat. (as seen while sitting in the back) and have a look inside. I am not too sure how it comes off, though. Just pulling on it doesn't seem to want to budge it. Anyone have any experience in this area? Thanks.
Check for seat belt buckles hitting each other in the back seat.
I have an 02 LS V8 and love it. The 03 improvements are definitely worth it. But, there are almost no changes for 04. I definitely would look at the V8 Sport. I think it will get the price where you need it to be and give you a great car to boot.
Dealer service depends on the dealership you choose. Mine is the best dealership I have ever dealt with. Look at the dealership rating. There are 3 categories: Standard, the middle category (I forget what this is called) and the top is premier (only 50 in the country). I think you would be satisfied with a dealership in the top 2 categories.
I received a letter from Lincoln that says that they will let me out of my lease early, if a buy or lease another Lincoln from my dealer. Sounded great..BUT...my dealer does not have the best price deals and he won't let me go to another dealer. He says that they are low balling. If they are, thats good for me. The Lincoln people want to move cars....why not let me get the best deal? I have had 2 LS's. One would think that with the LS rated 11 out of 11 in Road and Track and 6 out of 7 in Car and Driver, Lincoln would try to move cars and not stymie the buyer. I DON'T GET IT? The LS is a good car but not the only car in its class. I have had trouble with both cars and I would still stick to the brand, I like the car. It looks like the Lincoln message is OUR way or the highway. With diminishing sales you would think that they want to keep loyal customers. Maybe they don't care because they are going to do the same to the LS as they are doing to the T-BIRD.(STOP MAKING IT at the end of the cycle). Can some body help me understand?????
Comments
I've run this track in a Winston Cup car at over 160 mph and can honestly say I felt as confident in my LS at 100 mph with the AC on and Beach Boys playing.
Seeing 3 other LS's under me (I took the high line) was quite a sight.
If you ever get the chance to try your LS on any type of course, you'll truly appreciate what you have under you.
I also rented a 2003 LS this past week finally... what a BEAUTIFUL running car. Lincoln really did a job on the 2003; too bad it's so underrated.
Anyone know if the 2004 is coming out in the next handful of months? Wonder what incentives with be offered to get rid of the leftover 03s?? Might save thousand$ here on top of a rebate with just a short wait.
Thanks for any info.
Tom
Wheel bearings, ah, here's the conundrum of modern manufacturing. Please remember that these are supplied by outside suppliers and that this is outrageously low mileage to have them "eat themselves", but it does happen. Years ago, (I hate how that constantly works it's self into my lexicon) I remember where a BMW 318 ate it's rear wheel bearing during a comparison test (R&T) and was left by the side of the highway, yet it won the comparison test!??
The stalling out of Park is a new one on me. I know that there is a process for "training" the transmission, but I'm not sure that this would apply. Make sure that you LS has the latest version of the transmission software installed, if that's applicable.
Hopefully, it will quickly restart once you slip it into neutral, then on your way you go once again. I don't suffer this problem myself, I only get the "too" rich syndrome, where it stumbles and idles roughly until operating temperature has occurred.
As far as ideas to the running of your LS, we need more information. Can you pin point when this might happen. I could steer you to a web site that might help where you can post your question.
Settle down Pat, the site would be FlatRateTech.com, there are many Ford, Mercury and Lincoln Mechanics that can help you out with you idle situation. I'm sure that they would have more ideas that I do!
Please report back regarding your progress.
Thank god my lease is almost over.
I am now leaning toward a Subaru Impreza WRX STi.
0-60 4.9
1/4 mile 13.3 @ 103 MPH
Braking from 60 111 ft.
Slalom 68.4 0.88G on skidpad
$32,550
For gods sake a BMW M5 is::
0-60 4.8
1/4 Mile 13.3 @ 108.5 MPH
Braking from 60 116 Ft
Slalom 66.4 MPH 0.85G on Skidpad
$72,645
The Suby may be the best bang for the buck performance sedan in the world...
I'm sorry that you're so uninspired about your LS due to the problems you had with your it and it's lease, but if it cures your whining, things might be looking up for everyone involved.
Your comparison of the Subarau WRX only shows how diverse of vehicle's you are looking at, but you show an absolute lack of reality comparing a Subaru WRX, Lincoln LS and then a BMW M5.
We've dealt with sour grapes here before, and the taste here is familiar. I won't call anyone out here, but please post any positive posts that you've written about the LS immediately following.
Keeleyo, lot's of luck with you future choice. I hope that it will live up to your highest standards, whatever they are.
As for the stalling there really is no rhyme or reason at all to it. Sometimes it does it twice in one day and then it won't happen again for another 2 weeks - very frustrating and embarrassing when my $38k car won't start....
Again, I love,love,love my car. Wished I has waited for the 03's though, hindsight is 20/20 right?? I do have to say though after driving this 03' Town Car for the last 2 days I can definitely see myself in one of those in about 30 years when I'm 60...what a sweet ride.
Thanks again to everyone for their insight.
When I leased my LS 3 years ago My hopes were that they would have an "SVT" version by this time at a price around or under 50k. THAT is what I want and cannot have unless I go to the Caddy but I think the CTS is hideous. I still plan on driving my play-toy Jeep Wrangler through the summer and then reconsider my options.
It is nice to be in the drivers seat and not have to do anything until it is right and feels right to me. I have not totally ruled out the 03 LS either and maybe when the 04's are out I can get a good 0% deal on a loaded 03 (THX Nav V8 Etc) say 40kish... My previous post was a bit of a rant since I have been without my ride. All in all until this Transmission problem I have had a very good experience with the LS. However, there are now so many choices in the 30-50k range that were not there 3 years ago. Lincoln needs to smell the roses.
If I appear to be fickle it is because I can afford to be... (the benefit of having a 3rd car paid off)
The new Toyota Sienna MINIVAN is 7.6!!!
I know 0-60 is a single measurement but if you car has the grunt to hit 60 in less than 6 seconds then it can be felt across the range of driving activities.
The LS has everything I want except a 6 speed and about 1/2 to 3/4th a second to 60. I would love an LS that hits about 5.5 to 5.9.
For less than 50k.
So what I am doing now is listing all of the cars that meet this and then eliminating the ones I do not like.
I will tell you this: I keep coming back to the Audi S4...
Fickle I am!!!
I was duly impressed. The THX is very nice as well as the nav. The cooled seats are very weird but I like them. The power is much better and very noticable compared to my 00 V8. Brakes and handling are improved. The sounds coming from under the hood and out the nice exposed tail pipes are an improvement as well.
Several nits:
The Throttle is like an on/off button. It is not linear at all and you have to mash down quite a ways before anything happens.. After driving my car home I definately prefer the direct linkage over the throttle by wire.
I do not like the wood steering wheel. My hands kept slipping on turns. Dangerous in my opinion.
The wheels are nice but I also like the sport wheels.
47k is a bit high too. (I looked at a LOADED Navigator with a dual screen video system that was only 51k)
The solution might be a sport with the THX/Nav added. Then I would get different wheels, Leather steering wheel, and Leather shift knob.
I would also order the HID lights.
Now I am going to go drive an S4...
Enjoy the S4 test drive! New one with the V8 correct?
-B
I remember the pre-03 V8 LSes to be more like 7.2. The 03s are 6.4 I believe.
But the Toyota Sienna at 7.5sec 0-60? Where did you get that. Best I've seen for that, with the 230hp 6 is around 8.5
Lastly anecdotal experience - if your biggest reason for leaving the LS behind is maintenance issues - Audi would not be a terrific place to end up.
I was a bit off however, the published number to 60 is 7.8 Still quite acceptable for a minivan.
The 0-60 numbers are quite relative. In most cars, you can't judge it unless you have a 3rd wheel or other instrumentation.
Everyday driving is a more important criteria. The new RX-8 Rotary is 5.9 but you have to dump the clutch at high rpm to get that time. The car has almost no torque at lower rpms.
The WRX is not as bad but you have to keep the turbo spooled up.
We Americans are used to stump pulling torque. The LS may not be as fast as some, but it is a highly satisfying street car with great balance. Like 8 or 9's in every category instead of a 10 in one and 6's in the rest.
According to the June 2003 issue of Motor Trend, their '03 540ia Sport went 0-60 mph in 6.2 seconds. One key area is whether the 540ia has the Sport Pkg. The Sport Pkg provides a 3.15:1 final drive ratio. The base 540ia uses a 2.81:1 final drive. (The 540i6 comes only with the 2.81, while the M5 uses the 3.15.) The current E39 5 Series came out in CY1996 as a MY1997. That was an eternity ago, but she still acquits herself magnificently.
I see two markets in the 4 door "near-luxury" sedan segment.
One is the heavier, more loaded and luxurious sedans like the LS, the 540, etc with automatic trannys.
The other category is the lighter, less luxurious, and smaller sedans also available in MTX form like the IS300 and Infiniti G35.
Right now, you could buy an MTX G35 with six-speed Manual with leather for about $32,500. And that's less than 6 seconds 0-60.
Resale value and residuals on the Manuals are low, as is the LS even in Auto, and the BMW is probably better, even in Manual trim.
But finding a 540i MTX is probably harder than finding an M5, and about as hard as getting an M3 for sticker.
Even the O3 V-8 LS is out of my league. I draw the line at $500 a month, even though my CPA says I need more write-offs.(I still owe the IRS 10k).
Maybe I should lease a Maserati! Ha!
BMW M5= 3,995 pounds (curb weight)
Jaguar S-type R= 4,066 pounds
Audi RS6= 4,229 pounds
MB E55 AMG= 4,237 pounds
BMW M3= 3,394 pounds (curb weight)
MB C32 AMG= 3,651 pounds
Audi S4 Quattro= 3,864 pounds
Notice who is lightest? And notice that the 3 over 4,000 pound sumo heavyweights in the top listing need forced induction to overcome their weights and ATs?
[BMW is soon to release its lightweight version of the M3, the M3 CSL. It drops 243 pounds and adds 17 hp. Prefer that to forced induction any day.]
Thanks for the insight. I got back to the dealer's service dept. since my wife didn't ask too many questions after she was given the sealed story. As expected they don't have the equipment to do the transmission fluid change BUT it's on order and they expect it in in a month or so. I guess at that time since they will have to pay for the machine they will no longer tell people it's a sealed system and changing the fluid is not recomended. New car dealers service departments just kill me.
Maybe the ZF Manual vs the GM automatic?
I agree with Colin Chapman - lighter is better, even with the same hp/lb ratio.
I'm still trying to figure out where all the weight is in the LS.
Aluminum hood, quarter panels and trunk lid, suspension arms. Gee, without these, what would it weigh? 4300?
If I were the car compnies, I would use skinny midgets for the car tests. Maybe robot drivers or automated radio-activated steering, brake and throttle for the straight-line tests.
I haven't been following this disussion close but I saw the M5? Now there is no way that car can be brought into this. I have raced my best friends M5 with our GS430 and that blows ours away. In fact we are thinking of getting a m5. But otherwise I am looking for a car and the LS looked good for me. But I was just wondering how they last, I only drve 10k a year.
Best Regards,
Victor.
I will ask a Thunderbird owner that is a member of our local LS Group and post back.
It makes a hum that is proportional to speed. At low speeds, there is actually a vibration.
The hum or grinding sound is worse on left turns and less on right turns.
I think this can be explained. Whatever is failing is on the passenger side, since the noise increases with load on left turns.
It may be a bearing, but I think it's one of the "U-joints" on the half shaft.
The right tire is the lightest loaded and the one that spins and wears the fastest.
A couple of Manias and having a manual tranny increases the shock loading on this side. I'm hell on drivetrains.
This is a similar problem to the joint failure on FWD cars, but FWD drive cars have increased weight to aggravate the problem.
Since this is probably a rare situation, I expect my car to be tied up at the dealer for at least a week, as the parts required probably won't be on the Left Coast.
I will provide periodic reports for the curious.
The car has been bulletproof for almost 3 years.
S-Type Jag?
Or use the Volvo . . .
- Ray
Who gave in to such temptation - once . . .
The extra coverage I bought was probably not necessary, as my insurance might cover the liability/damage to the rental car. Hertz makes it sound so important.
I take my wife to work everyday since her job as an RN in a local hospital syncs with my schedule (self-employed), so her Volvo just sits in the garage (8 years old and 50k). I'll just drive the Brick for a week or so while Whitey is in the hospital.
Hertz has no "fun" cars. Just too late, I guess. In the 60's, I could have rented a Shelby Mustang!
Other than that, NO PROBLEMS whatsoever. It has been a superb driving car, and we've taken trips all over the USA, including CA Highway 1 and many mountain roads through the rockys as well as long hauls across Kansas and Texas. It is quiet, comfortable, and still tight as a drum. We are seeing about 18.5 MPG in the city and 26 MPG on the highway. There are very few cars that can follow it around curves or corners if driven in a spirited fashon. It is a lot of fun to drive. It compares in size more to a BMW 7-series than to a 3 or 5 series car. It is a lot of car for the money, and just plain a lot of car....
It gives every indication that it is going to last a long time.
My wife and I have had 4 Lexus products and are a bit spoiled with Lexus quality and service.
In considering a different car, we have decided to go with a 6 cylinder version, automatic with premium options; i.e. moonroof etc.
We are considering the following: Lincoln LS6, Jaguar X-Type 3.0, and Cadillac CTS 3.6 (coming out in 04).
We would appreciate your experience and comments on quality, service, reliability and performance on the above automobiles.
Also, we hear that some domestic manufacturers give a special discount (on top of negotiated deal)for customers who leave foreign manufacturers; i.e. Toyota, Honda, etc; to purchase domestic products. Is that true and how do we find out about these programs.
Thanks to all who take time to respond.
I had my powerful car experience with the GS400.
0 - 60 in 6.2 seconds, had dealer installed radar to help avoid tickets.
Today, I am mellowing a bit. Looking for comfort features in something fun to drive that looks good and is less expensive in price than the Lexus GS400 product and a bit more economical to run.
My biggest concern in leaving Lexus is the quality, service and customer care I have received from the dealers and Lexus management. I hope to find that level of quality and customer service in another manufacturers product.
Hope this additional information helps.
Of the 3 cars you're considering, I think the weakest entry is the X-type, simply because it may be too small for your taste. It's built off the Ford Mondeo platform with, of course, some 'bettermments' thrown in. The 3.0 will perform very well in it and the AWD is certainly nice in the winter. But it's pretty pricey for what u get, IMHO.
I haven't driven a CTS, but have looked carefully at them and it appears to be a worthy competitor for the LS. But of course it's definitely an acquired taste, looks-wise. I think they're upgrading the interior a bit in '04. Don't know about the 3.6 at all, but any performance improvement in any car is always a plus in my book. Overall though, I think you'll find the CTS does not quite keep up with the LS performance and handling-wise.
Surprise! My vote would go to the LS. I guess I'm biased - I own a 2001 V6 with the 5-speed manual. Nice ride. Been perfectly reliable mechanically. Some little nits have caused some extra dealer shop time, but I've got no complaints about the car. The V6 now (03) has VVT and 235 hp with a flatter torque curve than mine. Performance should be pretty good. Handling is outstanding (better than the 540i the tests say) That said, if you could spring for the 280 Hp V8 (also with VVT) you'd have a car with performance approaching the GS400 for much less $$$. Also, for some reason Lincoln left out the instrument panel computer on the V6. V8 gets it, so if you like that sort of thing V8 is a must. The LS has better 'roots' than the X-type, maybe even the Caddy as it was designed in parallel with the Jag S-type with which it shares most of the under-pinnings. The seats have always been great and this year they've added adjustable pedals, so driving position should be very comfortable.
Speaking of the S-Type, you may want to add that to your list. Beautiful car. 3.0 V6 in it is a reasonable engine.
Now for dealer service. I can only speak for my experience. Bought my car at a Ford Lincoln/Mercury dealership. So their mechanics are more used to seeing F150s and Foci than a Lincoln LS, especially one of the 600 or so ever made with a manual tranny. That has cuased me some problems. But they always have a loaner car ready if they're keeping mine overnight. I gotta reserve in advance though if I want a Lincoln. Otherwise it's usually a Windstar or Sable. The dealership owner and my sales gal have been GREAT. The service mgrs (there have been 3 or 4 since I bought) have always been respectful and have mostly tried to keep me happy (which ain't always easy). But I must say my overall rating of service dept would be no better than 7/10. A strictly L/M dealer would probably be better. Caddy? Jag? I dunno. But in short, I think you are right to be concerned about this part of leaving Lexus.
Good luck!
You will find the LM dealers well-stocked with product, and you can probably cut an unbelievable deal on a loaded V-8 LS. You just cannot beat the value.
As Heyjewel said, the LS shares the same race-defined chassis as the Jag S and T-Bird. This chassis design is so expensive to produce, Ford can't afford to use it on lesser cars. Your LS should easily out-handle your GS.
I have never had any serious issues with my LS, and most were teething issues typical with "first-year" introductions. Besides having all those addressed, LM has made over 500 improvements for 03.
Take a test drive. The first corner will convince.
The "LS Bonus" is the comaraderie here and on the LLSOC website which will provide you with a lot more enjoyment with the car than you could ever have with a another make.
LS MANIA IV is happening this Summer, and as a veteran of 2 of the last three, I can tell you that no make has the factory support, communications, and connections that LLSOC members and LS Owners have. A free 6 month membership to LLSOC is included with your new LS (It's with the owner's manual material).
By the way, I'm 55, 5'10' and over 200 lbs also.
The seats are spectacular. But I really appreciate the handling. Ask the guys on this board. They know how I like to take a "spin" in an LS.
JAG X - Another of my employees bought an X type late last year, and I have been amazed with how good it is, for as little as it is. She has had zero issues or problems with it, and it seems to hold up great. Not sure it's near the performer either the CTS or LS is, but it's nice to drive, and a remarkable car for the price. Quite the value is my bottom line on that one....
I'm very impressed with the way the LS handles and feels. You should drive one if you haven't. They are an amazing machine. The Jag feels a bit more statly, like you should call it Stuart, or something. I'm not a BMW fan, so I'll just leave it at that. My only knock on the LS is the lack of interior storage compartments. Pretty normal, I guess, but I'm used to some more space.
Conversely, my 99 Navigator had TONS more space to put stuff, or cubbie holes for my cubbies, as I like to call them. In the new interior, which is beautiful, I agree, I have only one small door pocket, and 2 cupholders up front. The old one had huge door pockets, side console pockets, and a large box in the console (unless you had navigation, which I didn't), and 4 cupholders and an ashtray all up front. I miss it.
I want to remove the molded plasic that is on the back of the seat. (as seen while sitting in the back) and have a look inside. I am not too sure how it comes off, though. Just pulling on it doesn't seem to want to budge it. Anyone have any experience in this area? Thanks.
I have an 02 LS V8 and love it. The 03 improvements are definitely worth it. But, there are almost no changes for 04. I definitely would look at the V8 Sport. I think it will get the price where you need it to be and give you a great car to boot.
Dealer service depends on the dealership you choose. Mine is the best dealership I have ever dealt with. Look at the dealership rating. There are 3 categories: Standard, the middle category (I forget what this is called) and the top is premier (only 50 in the country). I think you would be satisfied with a dealership in the top 2 categories.
Thanks
It looks like the Lincoln message is OUR way or the highway. With diminishing sales you would think that they want to keep loyal customers. Maybe they don't care because they are going to do the same to the LS as they are doing to the T-BIRD.(STOP MAKING IT at the end of the cycle). Can some body help me understand?????