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Comments
The new 03 LS has made quite a huge opening there by going to an electronic parking brake.
You really need to see this to know what I mean.
The 03 interior is significantly upgraded.
Check it out
The warranty on my 2000 LS V6 w/ convenience and sports packages is almost kaput. What known LS problems should I be aware of and checking during my last free visit to the dealer?
Also, I have had a low humming coming from the rear end for about 6 months. It started sometime after new tires were put on. It starts at about 20MPH and gets louder with speed not RPM. I've replaced brake pads and rotated the tires and the sound is still there and coming from the rear. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Steve
After 3 years and nearly 88,000 miles a few comments;
Pluses-
- engine still powerful and smooth, has never missed a beat.
- body tight, squeak free and solid as first day.
- shocks/struts held up for about 75k ( in the bumpy NE) before ride quality became noticeably bad. I'd recommend replacement at 50-60K to keep the driving experience one of quality.
- interior holding up well, no significant wear/ rips in the leather ( no special care given).
- tranny just starting to clunk ( u joints?). Sport Shift automatic useless for any serious driving,never used.
- overall handling excellent for a Sport sedan.
Minuses-
- power window failure,various electrical/electronic gremlins whicjh are annoying but not amnnoying enough to fix.
- Auto tranny as mentioned above.
- interior storage.(lack of).
Overall an excellent platform for competing with BMW etc. Resale for the car is low right now becuse the only rep the car has is Lincoln's. If FoMoCo realizes that it took many years for BMW to become BMW and keeps refining and improving I think the LS will be right up there with the German marques. Concern is that if they don't take over in 5 yrs they'll give up.
When you take your car in, mention noise from the rear windows when you operate them. If you have an experienced and cooperative dealer, both will be replaced. If you don't, and you get the infamous "could not duplicate," at least you're on record for when they take a dump later.
At that point, there are these "after warranty adjustments," (AWA's) which are said to be not too hard to acquire.
Make sure you have your transmission "reflashed." I'm assuming you don't have a manual, since you didn't mention it.
Otherwise, the car is pretty well developed in terms of long-term failure items. You've already endured the little niggling crap that comes with a first-year car.
Good luck.
I have leased several cars and the dealers always send me notification that the car must be returned to them. However, when I checked with the manufacturer (they held my lease), I was told I could turn the car in at any dealer that was willing to accept it. My cars haven't been Lincolns (or Ford products), but I can't imagine the rules can be any different.
Take it to another dealer of your choice -- I bet they'll give you what you want.
I guess when the time comes I'll start looking at the 2004 5 series Bimmer. Thats the series I drove before and liked it. I had great dealer service.
Perhaps he never drives in the mountains? I have found the SST nearly indispensable for keeping the transmission in 2nd or 3rd gear while traversing switch-backs, especially when going down hill.
It is also useful for avoiding unwanted up-shifts during spirited driving on curving undulating roads when I want to control keeping it in 3rd or 4th. After training, my SST has become very responsive.
Another time I use it is when trying to hold a slow steady pace in heavy traffic. Otherwise the car tends to shift up to 5th, and then it wants to go too fast and I need to keep riding the brakes. Running along in 3rd or 4th, depending on the speed, I can control the speed totally with the accelerator and don't need to ride the brakes.
I still believe that they wouldn't let a car go unsold due to something as insignificant as what dealer you turn the car into. Keep in mind, your original dealer has a vested interest in telling you whatever it takes to keep you coming back to them, instead of another Lincoln dealer.
Also, didn't you mention in your post #11723 that another dealer would meet your terms?
I'll check around and see who wants to deal.
Fortunately for me, I have no reason or desire to change dealers, so I've been well taken care of. Makes no sense to me either.Ford Credit not only will not negotiate and early buy out, but if you want to sell your car yourself, you can't. It MUST go back through the dealer for the buyout. That's their way of getting your trade back.
Again, I like my dealer, and I like the product, so I'm ok with things, but I do scratch my head about the militant stance they take.
Why doesn't FMC negotiate lease buyouts? Let's look at just Lincoln and let's say they sell 100K/yr and 50% of those are leases. That's 50K leases a year or just under 1000 per week. How are they supposed to individually negotiate 1000 lease buyouts every week? And if you throw in all the other Ford and Mercury leases it's a lot more than that. What they can do is to modify the lease buyout prices en masse which they apparently did with some LS leases as one owner reported getting a lower buyout offer. It's just not feasible.
The leasing/financing operations of the major auto manufacturers are far too rigid in administering their leases. It may be they are held so accountable for their own operational results that this takes precedence over the overall profitability of the whole company. Some companies are that disfunctional.
My wife had a 4 year lease through Bank of America and surprisingly, they were very willing to cancel the lease after 2 years. I think it cost us a total of $187. It had to be a loss for them as they had to dispose of the car!
So, if a bank is willing to deal (with no reward), you would think that a car manufacturer would be ecstatic to deal with another new car sale/lease as the outcome!
Bank One called ME, and offered to sell me the vehicle at a discount. Apparently there are too many Explorers on the road, and they did not want to go through the trouble of taking it back and selling it. They reduced the residual by $3000.00 and offered to finance the balance at 3.9% for 3 4 or 5 years with no down payment. I was shocked, and took the 3 year deal. I was able to finish the balance in 7 months. It was truly a pleasureable experience from beginning to end. The dealer was not part of the transaction at all. Everything was handled through the mail, complete with Bill of Sale, taxes and notarization. I have a feeling that if this was a Ford Red Carpet Lease, I would be stuck with the previous residual regardless of the fact that it did not accurately reflect the true current value of the vehicle. Walking away would be easy, but buying it would be expensive. I had 3 previous Red Carpet Leases, but I walked away from all of them. They have been wrong on their residuals before and would not bend on their projections.
I would have no reservations about leasing another vehicle from Bank One. I am not sure if it always goes like this, but it worked well for me.
GSEREP1
Conversely, Ford, Chrysler, GMAC are much better at projecting residuals. But it's still a crap shoot and sometimes they're still quite wrong. But even if they are wrong, they have the mechanism to deal with the lease returns all in place everywhere, and can deal with it better than a bank can. Nevertheless, I have had GMAC leases, and Ford leases (and one from BofA), and with GMAC, you can sell your car to a third party, they don't care. You just go to the local GMAC office with the buyer, he pays off the lease, they sign off the title, and you're done. With Ford, you MUST go back to the dealer, who takes the car back, marks it up and sells it to your buyer. Otherwise, you have to buyout the lease yourself, pay sales tax, then sell it to your buyer, who again pays sales tax!!!!!
All personal experience, and I had a dealers license for a while, so I'm not blowing smoke. I love Fords, but Ford Credit is very heavy handed with lease ends. I don't agree that they can't negotiate lease end residuals, they could, right there at the dealer. It's alllllll negotiable. But they have their policies, and that's fine too, I signed the contract.
No car company can give their cars away. I don't expect them to.
If you're talking about a certain well-regarded, MANIA-maniac early LS buyer who hails from around the Big Apple as the owner who reported a lower buyout order, then I must disagree with this statement. I remember when he posted that and I followed up with him and upon further review, he realized that the buyout was not lower, but in fact was the same.
If you're referring to someone else ...
Also regarding the selling dealer thing: I don't know all the ins and outs but when I was investigating my lease end options I found out that the selling dealer is is either part or full owner of the vehicle, Ford Credit is the lienholder and has some kind of legal rights over pricing and disposition, but the selling dealer is very much part of the process. So if your dealer is a meathead, I dunno what to say. Calling LINCOLN Customer Service hotline might get to the right person, who knows.
You have three issues here. One - FMC won't negotiate the buyout price. You can't let the dealers negotiate the buyout price. Some dealers would use that to their financial advantage (translation: ripoff FMC). FMC could do it but how do you do thousands of renegotiations a week? That in itself would be expensive.
Two - you must use the early termination offer at your selling dealer. Did it ever occur to anyone that the selling dealer may have to fund at least part of the early termination? If it costs the dealer $500 then they have to sell you a new car to make up the difference. I don't know if that's the case but it's certainly possible (even likely). That would explain the dealer's behaviour.
Three - your dealer won't give you as good a deal as other dealers. Blame the dealer, not FoMoCo. They have NO control over the dealers. Also - see #2.
You could just stick with your original contract, wait a few months and then get the deal you want from the dealer you want. If you don't want the early termination, don't use it. It's just an offer.
Also, unless you're in a position to write off car expenses, leasing almost never makes long-term financial sense, unless it's a heavily subsidized deal.
However, the monthly payment is always lower for a leased vehicle. You own nothing at the end of the lease, and for many that must make sense. Never has to me, though.
On a lease, you pay 3 things: rent on the money borrowed (money factor), depreciation based on the residual value, and sales taxes.
The dealer has no control over residual but he has over the negotiated price and the money factor (rent %) which is usually between .0017 and .0025.
The mysterious "Money Factor" depends on the lease term, your FICO/Beacon score, and the miles per year.
Many lease managers will give you their MF, some won't. I have the formula for translating the MF into $ if you need it.
Now leasing really is great if you are self-employed. I write-off 80% of my monthly lease payment -the total payment. Right now I am looking at a replacement car for the wife unit.
Almost no drive-off and $840 a month. It sounds like a lot, but $650 of that is kind of paid for by Uncle Sam.
That's why you see so many expensive cars out there. Most of them are self-employed leased cars.
If you see alot of Hummers, they qualify for Farm and Industrial Equipment depreciation write-offs and tax credits for Capital Equipment.
I could kill my taxes with a Hummer. It's just that I could not stand driving a pig.
Nissan is bringing out the Titan-based SUV this Fall to take advantage of this tax-loophole. All we need is more huge 6000+ lb road hogs to slow down our LSes.
So leasing makes sense to the self-employed. I either make a big lease payment or I give Uncle Sam more money. I might as well drive and enjoy my tax-deduction.
In an unrelated subject but of some significance, I just got Whitey (2000 Manual) back from the hospital. I had a rear end noise over the past year that kept getting worse. More noise on left turns than right. I thought it was a right rear axle U-joint going. Well, it was real simple. It was the outboard wheel bearing.
Whitey is as quiet as new now, except for the Borla.
As for negotiated lease buy-outs. They are possible, and I just talked to an LLSOC member of some prominence at Manias 1 and 3, and he did it. But it takes work and you have to burn up the phone and get attention. Otherwise your LS will be taken back by Ford Credit and auctioned off at a loss. It's easier for corporate type zombies to just do what they always do and lose money with auctions than to give the consumer a break and save some money. After all, the auction buyer has to buy low enough to make a profit. I figure the total FMC loss on Manuals is in the thousands. Start your negotiating early with the Finance Guy at the dealership ADN find out who the honcho is at Ford Credit.
But remember, you can always walk away and let them have it. You can buy new and they will really bend over on a new LS. I'd doo that but I can't buy a new 2003 LS Manual. But if I could drive an auto tranny, I'd jump at the 2003 V-8 LS. They will do anything to sell a returning lease customer one of these. You can't believe the stuff I get in the mail. 0%, $5000 cash back, dealer's wife for a week (oh, that was the Caddy offer), but there are like 53 2003 LSes at my local dealer and they want to throw the keys in my hand if I get near the place.
This is a great time for an LS. They even have 2002's on the "Build Your Lincoln" LM site!
"$5000 cash back, dealer's wife for a week (oh, that was the Caddy offer), "
Yeah, but she's liable to have all the slimness, smooth curves, good looks and sex appeal of a CTS! :>)
HOWEVER- right now, the BEST DEAL BAR NONE out there is the 0% deal for whatever months, 60 is best. You can't beat that anyway you slice it, and if I were in the market right now, I'd grab one, don't car what the car is, (almost). That deal is a steal.
I guess there's going to be a lot of 2003 3.9 V8 engines falling apart out there due to over-revving.
The first time that happened, I thought the engine came apart. I think it's fuel and ignition cut-out at redline.
So redline your 3.9 and watch the tach. That should give you an idea where your redline is!
I thought "No Problem".
Pulled off the faux fuzz covered panel OK.
Could not find any bulb sockets.
I'm lost guys!!!
Help!
Do I get out the wrenches and sockets and remove the light unit?
This has to be simpler than that!
BTW, I don't lease, never have and likely never will...
circlea
Sounds kind of drastic for a light bulb change, though.
It's not the kind of thing the average CPA is going to do on the side of the road or even in the parking lot of the parts store.
I bet alot of people just take it in to the dealer.
Makes me wonder if the windshield has to come off to replace the wipers.(just kidding).
Instead of those two nuts holding the tail light assembly in, they could have put on wing-nuts instead and made it easier (sure).
I fell in love with a nice 02 Boxter low miles for 39k however my senses told me the low mileage '01 A6 for 29k was better.
After I got home my senses told me that buying my 00 LS V8 sport was even better. I just hit 30k miles. Transmission repaired and seems to be good. Crashed windows repaired a year ago. New tires and Brakes (I already spent that money so why throw it away?). The only issues I want to resolve are the fogged headlight's and the rear view mirror has changed colors and does not darken. All of that will be under warranty.
Other than that no Squeaks or rattles. Paint looks good, few chips on front that can be touched, but no dings.
Had her detailed today and thought, wow it cleans up well! Still looks great!
So I am going to negotiate a deal with my dealer. The residual is 20K. Think they would talk for 18.5k? I have seen 00 V8 Sports in the Atlanta paper for 17k...
Would it help If I went there with a check in
hand?
I have really decided that I am going to shy away from new cars and go with slightly used from now on.
The Porsche will have to wait until my kids are out of High School and baseball etc.
One other thing: I plan on a few minor upgrades.
Is the 02 airbox worth it? I already have a K&N Panel.
How hard is it to have the rear facia modified (cut out) for straight back exhaust tips? I would like a new stainless performance exhaust.
Car drives like new,handling is back. I wish I hadn't waited so long. It's like the frog in the pan of water on the stove, things go bad too gradually.
Total tab at the Lincoln dealer was $448.( you do not need an alignment you might expect with front struts because of the way the suspension is configured).
I have a sport (by default, a manual transmission) and have wondered about the shock replacement that I'm sure I'll need soon.
There are a couple of new dealers where I live, so it'll be interesting to see if they match the cost you've quoted. Sounds like you've got a good dealer. Not to nit-pick (well, yeah, otherwise I wouldn't say anything), but the LS doesn't have struts. What it has is unequal-length A-arms, all aluminum. Probably one of the more sophisticated suspensions you'll find on earth, let alone in the U.S.
That's part of why the LS is so much fun to drive.
Here's a tip- bring the car to the dealer so his parts man can 'eyeball' your orig eqpmt struts to order the right replacements. Apparently LM made so many running changes in '00 assembly that there are multiple part numbers for the struts. My parts guy insisted that he take a look before he ordered. Doesn't seem right but seems to be true.
cjs2002.
I've had my LS for almost 3 years and just shy of 65K. I like it so much, I bought my wife a CPO 2001. We both have the V6, and with a few "upgrades", the six is plenty powerful. The '03 is even better! There is a large group of enthusiasts out there. Most of us are very satisified with our cars. Most people that I know that leased, leased the new and improved '03. The V6 base is a fine car. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that they sticker for ~30K. The V6 premium also a good choice. This Saturday on Speedvision there is an in-depth review of the LS. Check www.speedtv.com for times. Drive the LS. You will soon have the not-as-yet-patented LS Grin!