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Comments
Rene -- good motorcycle story w/ #1121 (unless it's changed, which it can do now). Good to hear from you
Steve
How about that "leatherette" upholstery at this price? When I met my wife-to-be in 1969, she had a base model '69 Chevy Nova with a vinyl interior and no A/C. As we suffered through the first 2 summers of our marriage with this thing, little did I know that that some 32 years later some auto writer would be extolling the virtues of same. I am gratifed that the writer's guilt is assuaged B/C no cows died in vain. I am certain that he buys only footwear that is non-leather, has a canvas wallet and never has a steak dinner. I'll bet his wife or girlfriend even has a leatherette handbag. Can you spell sour grapes?
And, oh yeah. I commuted to work by car for 22 years. I don't think a morning or evening passed when some testosterone-charged imbecile also decided to became "Mr. Wheeler" so as to not have to suffer the ignominy of looking at the back of my car. Of course, in this case they were not rewarded with the open road. Instead they got to see the backs of the hundreds of thousands other cars on the world-famous Long Island Expressway.
After I got my first motorcycle with ABS brakes (a 1992 BMW K75/RT) I had to (re)train myself to be ready to fully use my front brake when needed instead of being so careful to avoid lockup. Lock up the front wheel on a bike, and you are down so quickly you won't know what hit you (voice of experience). A bike doesn't stop very quickly while sliding along on its saddle bags and crash guards.
It is important not to have to delay while figuring out how much traction the road surface can provide when someone pulls a sudden "lefto" in front of you. The fact that I could just react with violent braking when the old lady cut me off on my R1100 probably saved my bacon.
The effects of locking the wheels on a 4-wheel vehicle aren't as catastrophic as they are on a motorcycle, but the loss of steering is serious, and the stopping distance is significantly extended. I think ABS provides a HUGE real-world advantage under panic stop/avoidance circumstances when our "modulating" skills are most likely at a minimum.
So this is my idea of why they like BMW's. The LS definitely edges the BMW in luxury, but not so for steering and handling. A BMW 3 and 5-series have envious vehicle dynamics, whether you're at 3/10's or 10/10's. The LS feels nice until about 7/10's. I think a BMW is a racecar in luxury clothing, the original sport sedan. The LS is a luxury car with improved vehicle dynamics, a sporty luxury car.
I'm guessing the "bias" exists because during the '70s and '80s only BMW and Porsche were obsessively focused on driver-oriented performance cars. All of their platforms sold in the USA are far more performance oriented than the complete lines of their competitors. They have worked hard since the '50s to build and maintain their reputations.
Closest Detroit has come is the Corvette. But does anyone think the '76, '81, or '86 Corvettes were great cars then or today? Think of what happened to the T-bird in the late '50s onwards. Anyone remember the Mustang II? And Lincoln hasn't had a positive driver's orientation since the early '50s. Or look at a once great marque like Jaguar. The late '70s and '80s were mostly a performance nightmare. They are having to work hard to rebuild their once great fame.
The 328 was a nice sporty car but too small and spartan. The steering wheel was manual adjust not auto & memory and it's "precise" steering was at times annoying because it was too skittish on our northern frost heaved and bumpy roads. A reasonably equiped 328i new, was also more expensive than a LS.
I didn't consider new 528's due to price. The old generation used 528 which was priced similar to the LS felt its age. The new generation used 528's drove similar to the LS but still felt smaller than the LS, had a bit more luxurious feel than the 328 but not necessasarily better than the LS. Next time I'm looking for a car I won't be considering BMW unless they drop their prices by 20%. IMHO your paying for status with those cars.
Forget luxury, forget horsepower, forget handling. The best thing about my LS is that it warms up faster than any car I have ever driven. The other day in 26 degree weather, it was blowing warm air withing 2 miles of starting it.
Don't forget to mention www.llsoc.com in the comments field or let the sales rep. know if you call in so you get the free shipping offer. If they have issues with it, tell them to ask Mike, the owner, about it.
Brian
I just added an icon on our site that will allow questions to be asked and answered in real-time, if I'm online. It's called Human Click and the icon is both on the main page and on the navigation bars for both the public and members-only area. If I'm not online it will tell you to leave a message which I get as soon as I go back online.
Brian
If this does not happen by 2002 I'll have to look at the jaguar x-type. I currently have an 2000 ls v8 non-sport. I love the engine and handling and everything else, but the transmission ratios do not make sense. A six speed manual would be perfect!
Jim
Jim
The front spindle/steering knuckle is a very tall piece, arcing up over the front tire. The upper ball joint is ABOVE the tire and seems to be positioned at about the tire centerline.
Zero scrub radius? Less sensitivity to externally-induced forces? ??????????????
Whatever it is, it sure looks like $$$. I'm guessing that you guys spent extra money to keep something undesireable from reaching/affecting the driver.
Is this something else we LS fanatics can brag about?
If you really, really, really gotta 'ave a V-8 manual tranny sedan, 'ave you thought about a used BMW 540i? Good luck finding one, but it is a magnificent car. Just too darn expensive new. (I took my wife out on her birthday to dinner the other night. When I came out a beautiful BMW 635i manual was parked next to me. Guessing it was from '85-'88. I always wanted one. Wish BMW would revive the 6 Series. Or I could find a granny-driven low mile one in an Arizona barn.)
And it has curtain airbags, a Jag first!
Jim
Lincoln is probably looking at the number of manual LS's sold, (I saw a number at 3% somewhere) and figures there is no market for a manual with the v8. They need to understand that a manual ls v8 would attract a whole different group of people for a sub 7 second Lincoln.
Jim
I picked up my 2000 V8 Sport Jan 8. It is/was a Ford HP car. What ever that means. It had 7,500 hi already. I now have 12,000 i. Yes I drive alot. In fact my last car died prematurely (<200,000) and I wasn't quite financially ready for a new S. So I had to settle fro this one for $30,997. shah hub? But enough about me, what about the AS?
Good Gad, do I love this car. From a fellow licensed mechanical engineer, congradulations Lincoln (Mr. Kupka) for what is truely an outstanding vehicle. It takes a compitent engineer/team to come up with a great machine for the kind of money BMW wants. It takes true talent, dedication and a tremendous amount of hard work to design a machine such as this for such a reasonable cost. Bravo, give your team a raise and my compliments. I could not suggest a single big-picture design change. The car is fundimenatlly RIGHT.
I do share the opinion of many of the detail oriented comments posted on this page. I also have one, what I consider significant, core engineering "tweak" you folks may wish to cansider in following generations.
The center section where the front door closes and the rear door hinges on causes a blind spot for me blocking my perifial vision. I have adjusted the mirrors and seat position several times but still have this problem. I understand that this section most likely contributes significantly to the rigidity of the car and any sacrifices here would be a tradgety, but perhaps this area could be designed as a parralellagram to reduce its impact on ones lign of sight. I noticed that the front winshield frame seems to be designed with a triangular crossection. Rigid yes, but it also sucsessfully reduces the amount of vision inparement the driver experiences from this member.
Just a thought.
Brian, I will be seing you folks at the LLSOC soon.
Enjoy folks, I sure am.
Scott
Scott
FWIW, I've seen a useful suggestion on using the spell check - look at what it wants to do, take what makes sense from it, hit the BACK button in your browser and make your own corrections, then post.
Or skip it altogether.....
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
FWIW.
Jim
You should read some of Brock's books. I most strongly recommend his 1983 classic, "The Decline and Fall of the American Automobile Industry". Just pulled out my well-worn copy. Check out pages 204-208. His description of Cadillac's proving ground circa 1966 is priceless. The then engineers' disdain for 4-wheel disc brakes and IRS is still symptomatic of so much of today's Detroit that eschews developing and selling all around high performance automobiles! It is one of the reasons people like him have a "bias" toward marques like BMW, Porsche, or MB. He was there when they were routinely using readily available technology, like IRS or 4-wheel disc brakes, to make their cars better when Detroit wouldn't 'cause they didn't feel the need when they dominated over 90% of the U.S. market. Oh, how times have changed, and for the better.
Brian
I'd need to know/learn a little more about this engine, particularly its overall weight. I'm a little skeptical about dropping this motor into the LS without disturbing the weight distribution, and subsequently the handling. Obviously, I'd love the added oomph under the hood, but not necessarily at the expense of increased NVH and handling.
I think it would speak volumes for Lincoln to mate that powerplant with a manual transmission, but, alas, I rather enjoy my SST transmission (OK, maybe a slight change in the gear ratios could be in order). I've owned 2 seater sports cars (red of course) with manual transmissions, but, in my mind, they were sports cars . . . not sport sedans. While I appreciate the desire of others to row-your-own, IMHO, I'd rather have the SST set up.
Unless the overall weight of the 4.6L is equal to, or less than the Jag 3.9/4.0, I would wait to see how the additional weight affects the handling (not to mention the price!) My 2 cents.
As to the comparative quality, I only have some web cruising and the installation last week of the Joshua trim product, but I would be shocked if there was a nickels worth of difference on this. I am convinced that there are probably only one or two manufacturers of these trim products which are then retailed by several retailers. I note that when I got my Joshua wood product last week, it came from somewhere else and there was a blanked invoice on it that said ship to (me) bill to (an individual, obviously the principal of Joshua Wood Trim). If this were their factory, why bill anyone? It is obviously a factory that sells to more than one retailer.
Having said that, I am totally satisfied with my Joshua Wood trim that is plastic, remarkably like the plastic that came from the factory. It was cheaper than some of the others and the quality is excellent. I did not use the pieces for the overhead light (called a console for some reason) and the piece for the top of the console as I thought it looked stupid and too much, but that is personal. I also think the rear door parts are kind of hokey looking. Try them on before you put them on as they expose too much plastic and look kind of silly (again, IMHO). I wish I had not put them on as the individual ash tray trim just looks added on. I may remove them. It is the only part I used that I wish I had not. I would have preferred to have a choice as to which parts to order, and they are so cooperative at Joshua Wood trim that they probably would have worked with me, but I bought the whole kit and did not use two pieces that are kind of big. Nice kit, simple procedure, looks really nice. I have gotten some nice compliments, but only after I bragged about putting it on as it looks very OEM. My wife has not even noticed and she has ridden in the car several times.
Now I'll get off my soap box and call my local fire department.
Got my K & N today. What a GREAT "growl" under moderate to hard acceleration!
I have a 2000 LS V8 Sport with 20K miles on it. The mileage has steadily improved to the point where I generally get around 17.5-18 MPG in mixed surface streets/urban freeway driving. If I get really jammed into a bunch of stop and go stuff, the mileage will get down around 14.5-15 MPG during concentrated stop and go, but I almost always can average at least 17 MPG for a tank of general city driving. It DOES pay to be gentle with the right foot during the stop and go though.
On the highway I usually drive around 80 MPH and get 23.5-25 MPG. My car frequently sees triple-digit speeds for short spurts, usually when overtaking, so I don't drive like the typical Volvo or Cadillac driver ;-) I didn't get this car so I could cruise along in LaLa Land. I still usually average around 24 MPG on trips.
I always use 93 octane fuel and always get it from the same station (unless I'm out of town, of course.) Most of my driving is in-town/neighborhood streets, a 6-mile freeway commute, and relatively short highway trips (30-70 miles at a time) at or above the speed limit; I'm not a lead-foot, either.
I have noticed a slight improvement over time, but it hasn't been significant; maybe 1 MPG. Eleven-point-four sounds really low; I'd definitely mention it to a service writer if I were you, especially if it persists.
Scott
Joe,
Are you sure you meant to say that the Joshua Tree wood trim kit is plastic? I just got the package and I'm pretty sure it's wood. I do agree that there are probably only two or three manufacturers of the stuff.
lolaj42,
I agree with you. Leavy is going to be doing the initial development of this in his street car. Once he gets all the bugs and kinks worked out of it and doesn't affect the handling, which he and I both agree we don't want to degrade in any way,
then it will work its way onto Project LS-GT, but not before then.
Brian
Brian
Don't get me wrong, I'd love more HP in my LS, and I'm anxiously waiting to see the Project LS-GT car develop. When do you think the Magnaflow project will produce some numbers (cost, and HP increase)? I've been looking into the K&N filter, but as others have stated (particularly the Edmunds participants from Arizona), increase in airflow at the expense of filtration capability isn't doing your engine any favors. With the airborne dust conditions prevalent in the desert southwest, I go through air filters almost as quickly as oil filters. I'd like to see a more definitive study of the filtration effectiveness of the K&N filter as compared with the specified Ford filter.
I'm waiting with baited breath for Leavy to get some performance LS products out to the masses! However, at this point, I don't think I could afford the 4.6L engine even if it could be done without affecting handling and NVH. I'm curious though.
I, too, am going to give the X-type a close look. No one has mentioned the Lexus IS-300 (rwd) which will add a manual this year, but I can't take that wedgie styling. And it has a support rod for the hood, too, which sealed its death for me.