My Lincoln LS 2000 V8 has 61K. The maintainence schedule says replace @ 100K. My dealer says I need to service now and they want $175 to replace fluid and filter. Now that's a luxury car price. Any comments? I also have had to replace 1 back and 1 front window requlator since the warranty ran out about 8 months ago. My first lincoln. Maybe my last.
Tires and wheels are not perfectly round. At the time the car manufacturer mounts the tire to the wheel, they match the "low spot" of the tire with the "high spot" of the wheel. This does a good job of making the assembly nearly round.
Look at a new car or truck that hasn't been preped. You'll see a piece of tape, usually yellow, on the tire and the wheel. That's put there by the tire manufacturer, and the wheel manufacturer to indicate how the tire should be indexed with the wheel.
Things can go awry when the tires are replaced. If the tire is randomly mounted on the wheel, it's possible that the "high spots" are together. When this happens, the tire/wheel assembly can be in perfect balance when spun on a balancing machine, but be an awful vibrator on the highway. Then you get to spend the extra $$ for the Hunter force variation machine & tire indexing.
I avoid this by marking the location of the yellow tapes when I buy the car. Even if the tape is removed, there's usually some residual adhesive on the wheel. Then, when I replace tires, I have them align the little dot on the tire sidewall with the wheel mark. Has worked for me every time.
“My Lincoln LS 2000 V8 has 61K. The maintainence schedule says replace @ 100K. My dealer says I need to service now and they want $175 to replace fluid and filter. Now that's a luxury car price. Any comments? I also have had to replace 1 back and 1 front window requlator since the warranty ran out about 8 months ago. My first lincoln. Maybe my last.”
Comments: First, and by far most important, I would never consider owning a contemporary vehicle as complex as my Lincoln LS (or pretty much any recent BMW, Audi, etc.) out of warrantee. Even a relatively simple parts failure, if it occurs in a hard to service area (a recent post referred to an HVAC valve or flap behind the dashboard, for instance) will likely be very difficult and expensive to repair or replace at today’s labor rates, even if the part is only $10.00 or $100.00.
And diagnosis and repair of major items like the trans. and motor related (electronic and other) components, when (not if) problems eventually occur, will likely be “breathtakingly” expensive.
/ on soapbox /
[This has been stated before here, by me and others, and elsewhere on Edmunds.
But I believe it is a point worth repeating. Unless you are mechanically and electronically skilled, and have access to dealership quality diagnostic equipment, tools, manuals, vehicle schematics, and unless you also have a LOT of time to devote to such activity – and at least 1 other vehicle available to use when the primary is out of service – I believe that a less expensive vehicle that is newer and still under original or extended MFR warrantee is a better choice for anyone and everyone.
Personally, I’d much rather budget a set amount for a car payment, and KNOW there will be no significant additional expenses each month for maintenance or repair. While I certainly do understand the potential attraction (see below) I also believe that buying a very nice vehicle (the LS is only one) that is out of warrantee skews the odds dramatically against the buyer. Driving a new Toyota Camry or Honda Accord (I hear $189 / 199 leases available locally) is probably not nearly as satisfying as driving a LS V8 for people that appreciate and enjoy the performance and driving experience offered by the LS - - when it is running right. But I would prefer not to risk potentially thousands of unbudgeted dollars to repair any vehicle. The risk would not be worth it – to me.
And years ago I certainly owned several vehicles well beyond warrantee. But if my current financial position demanded a choice between a new $20K vehicle and a (somehow better, by my definitions) used $20K vehicle that would demand that I pay for any and all maintenance and repair out of pocket, I would have to choose the new one. Just my opinion. YMMV.]
/ off soapbox /
- Ray
Who very nearly purchased a very nice, ’67 Jaguar E-Type, for a very attractive (initial) price, a couple of years ago – and (for this reason) is glad this did not come to pass . . .
Thanks for the soapbox. But I did not buy the Lincoln used. I bought it new. Now, can anyone answer my question about the A/T fluid w/o a discertation about a totally different subject
The A/T fluid should be changed every 30K or so if you want maximum protection. That's the severe service schedule and almost all driving nowadays is probably severe (especially in Atlanta). They use a machine to extract the old fluid and insert new fluid through the transmission cooler lines AND the fluid is a synthetic blend, thus the high cost. But it will get 95% of the old fluid out vs. 30% by just dropping the pan. Do it.
What akirby said. I totally agree, and $175 isn't much to spend, IMO for the service. Try doing this at a Toyota shop.
Pab5, you don't seem tolerant of lectures, so I'll try to be gentle....but I don't understand why 2 window regulators makes you sour on a 4 year old car. FWIW, the window regulators used by Ford for the Jaguar and LS are also used in the BMW - made by the same subcontractor. But I'll bet if they failed in your Bimmer, that wouldn't be something that would make you say, "maybe my last", would it?
Anyway - it's a machine, it's gonna have issues as it ages. Personally, I lease so that I'm never out of warranty on my main drivers. Like rayainsw said.
...charged $125 for a tranny flush/refill. While it may seem high, consider that synthetic tranny fluid is about $4-5 per quart, and the LS's transmission holds roughly 13 quarts in a total fluid replacement.
I usually consider changing the automatic tranny fluid an annual task. However, given the complexity of changing the fluid in the LS, I reluctantly paid the dealer the $65 in labor to do mine.
With regard to warranty, I agree that it's somewhat spooky driving a highly complex vehicle when it's not covered. After some thought and considerstion, I spent $1200 to purchase a Ford Easy Care extended warranty for my 2000 LS. It's far cheaper than any new car would be. I bought another 3 years and 30,000 miles worth.
I would highly recommend the every 30k miles as well. Believe me the last thing you want is to have tranny problems with this automobile. I have years of documented problems with the tranny and can honestly say 175 is worth it but you may be able to find it cheaper at another dealer and do not consider going to a non-lincoln repair shop for this process becasue they won't be able to do it and you may get taken for a ride.
Generally, I agree, Gunner. There are, however, some independent shops that specialize in Fords - you know, frustrated ex-Ford mechanics who don't want to deal with the sales goals, and time clocks of a dealership, and open up their own shops. You just need to find one who, A) Knows Fords and LIncolns, and Likes Fords & Lincolns. In my town, there are a couple of guys like that. One shop is two ex Ford Mechanics from New Jersey, who moved out west and opened up their own independent shop. The other is a former Service Manager for the local Ford Dealer who did the same. They generally are just as good as the dealer, and a little cheaper.
I concur.... there are specialist out there and I am certain that there are some dealer defectors that do care and do do a great job and absolutely love ford/lincoln. those are the true specialist and deserve the title specialist; if you find one in the Tampa Bay area please let me know as I will certainly be happy to provide them with patronage.
I agree with you .If you can find a shop with someone who knows fords you can save money big time.I live in a small town of 50,000 people unofficially & the dealer here wanted $250 to replace rear diff fluid and manual transmission fluid .At a dealer in town with 500,000 population the price jumped to $500 !!so always shop around .I don't understand why you buy a LINCOLN & expect to pay kia prices you should have taken that into consideration before buying a $40K auto.If your car is out of warranty start doing some repairs yourself I just changed the spark plugs on my 2000 lincoln ls cost just under $60 for the plugs if i went to the dealer $400 .I'm fortunate this car is just my weekend car I drive a 1990 isuzu pickup to work and for everthing else .Less wear and tear on my lincoln & hopefully less money to put out.
You might not see any oil because the oil leaks out and builds up around the spark plugs & sometimes screws up the coil on plug . This job costs alot of labour .Also I reccomend you change your pcv valve while you do this job if its blocked it sends the unburnt gases back and cause leaks ie. valve covers so check it out .I'm still trying to figure out were it located on the 2000 3.0 litre v6 sport model.
I'm sure they did test it to 150,000 and probably were successful, but was it in a Taxi around town, or driven back and forth across the country on the highways? I once bought a Town Car that Ford had owned previously. It was only 6 months old, and had 100,000 test miles on it. It had just been driven around the country as fast as possible. While a valid test of some things, I'm not sure that's a tough on a tranny as being a taxi in Manhattan is. And I agree on the 30,000 mile service interval.
That's ONE of a few tests that transmissions are put through. That's the "let's see how much it can go at very high speeds" tests... There's also the Taxi test, which requires them to use it on stop and go traffic.
Took a quick roadtrip to Indianapolis this weekend(not to the Indy 500 either) and again was reminded why I love the LS so much. Had 4 people in the car and often cruised at speeds close to(and some times above) 80 MPH. Other than the tires being in dire need of replacement(noise and some vibration) the car was as solid as can be. My friend who was in the car with my remarked how well the car handled the road. And our two lady friends in the rear quarters complimented on how comfortable it was several times. The LS just takes those rough spots on I-65 so much better than my Intrigue ever did. I can't wait to get new shoes on her and see how much better than ride and noise levels are. And when we hit a rain storm on the way home, my buddy was amazed at how the wipers adjusted their speed based on the rainfall. I think I've really become spoiled by this car and all it does as I take those "little things" for granted now:)
Took a quick roadtrip to Indianapolis this weekend(not to the Indy 500 either) and again was reminded why I love the LS so much. Had 4 people in the car and often cruised at speeds close to(and some times above) 80 MPH. Other than the tires being in dire need of replacement(noise and some vibration) the car was as solid as can be. My friend who was in the car with my remarked how well the car handled the road. And our two lady friends in the rear quarters complimented on how comfortable it was several times. The LS just takes those rough spots on I-65 so much better than my Intrigue ever did. I can't wait to get new shoes on her and see how much better than ride and noise levels are. And when we hit a rain storm on the way home, my buddy was amazed at how the wipers adjusted their speed based on the rainfall. I think I've really become spoiled by this car and all it does as I take those "little things" for granted now:)
The SA told me during the last valve cover replacement that this engine, 3.0l V6, doesnt have a PCV. That it is built into the valve cover so how. Cansomeone confirm or deny this?
Well this certainly tell's me don't buy an automatic Lincoln? glad I got a 2000 ls 5speed.You trying to tell me that they had all these problems .I thought Ford know's there own engines & tranny's
That was a one-off car with a Roush engine and tranny and they didn't have time to get all the details worked out before the race. It has absolutely no bearing on production LS reliability. Aside from some slow shifting and software issues on the tranny and leaky valve cover gaskets on the engine the LS engine and tranny have been fairly bulletproof.
for slunar and the other if you still getting vibration after tire balancing rotating and tire wearing not straight change the hydraulic bushing in the lower control arm ford dont sale that bushing go to jaguar dealers and ask information about the tsb 204-07 may 2002 to remove vibration of the steering it will work now am veery happy after 4 new tire 2 rotation 3 alignment 2 balance it was only that stupid hydraulic bushing at front giving the problem this bushing is made in Germany and is exactly the same as lincoln my dealer look stupid now he give me a diagnostic tolding my car was inside the lincoln spec and the lincoln supervisor who test my car without driving them and tolding me evrything is in spec i think they gonna look stupid in court i spend around 200$ bushing and camber bolts 1100$ tire 7 or 8 time dealers for the vibration 258$ at the dealers because lincoln dont want to pay anymore and at least 800$ lawyer and 275$ getting the bushing change and alignment and 2 1/2 month lost turn around from a dealers to another im gonna go in court for the time and money i lost....... jaguar have handle this very differently and way faster then lincoln if you have question contact me dwhitton1@hotmail.com
Does anyone know if the stalling issue was ever attributed to any particular component?
Last month I stalled 3 times on the same day and the day before yesterday I stalled twice. My LS had stalled in the past but the problem went away and only stalled my 2 or three times but the incidents were seperated almost by a month each. IIRC it had been almost 2 maybe three years since the last stalls that is till these recent events.
I have an 00 LS V6 Sport and have always used Chevron Premium fuel.
who can recommend a web-based parts supplier for the LS? I need to stock up on filters & whatnot & could probably save quite a bit, even with the shipping.
Signature L/M in Vegas might be cheaper than Torrie, but their email system is awful. IF the part has a price and you can do a total E-transaction, it goes smooth and timely. If you have to email for a price, forget it.
whitton - thanks for the information. I'm glad to hear that you were finally able to get your vibration problem solved.
The real question is why hasn't Lincoln put a TSB out on this to inform the dealers. Ford wasted a huge sum of money unsuccessfully attempting to fix the vibration in my 2000 LS, when it appears that all the time there was a relatively simple fix for it.
Also, if I understand what you said, you cannot purchase the replacement bushings at a Ford or Lincoln-Mercury dearler, but you have to go to a Jag dealer. This sounds like insanity.
The left rear regulator went out in my 2000 LS on Friday at 2pm. I stopped at the local auto glass shop at 2:15, he ordered one for me told me to bring the car back in 30 minutes. I ran a quick errand and returned at 3pm. 3:40pm, window fixed, $141.00 out the door.
I have never understood the big deal about this rather common problem. I have a friend with a BMW who has these things quit on him, once, both the left and right door's regulator went out at the same time! It happens to some vehicles, as do other things to other vehicles. They're machines. Move with life, I say!
I'm in a crummy mood this afternoon, I just noticed. Sorry folks
5 Speed manual you know that let's me decide what gear I want to be in not the cars computer! Teptronic ,steptronic or whatever the hell they call it now is truly sad .With all the problems i've seen people report on this I wouldn't buy a Lincoln again if it's not 5spd or RWD.
My point was you can't just say 5 speed anymore when you mean manual. There are 6 and even 7 speed automatics out there now.
Manumatics are not now, never have been and never will be a substitute for a manual tranny. They simply give you better control of the automatic and some work better than others.
(0.0 - Arthritis means I cannot ever again own a car with a clutch.)
0.5 - In full automatic mode, at WOT and max. rpm, it can snap off shifts very quickly but smoothly – a challenge, of course. At part throttle, again in full auto. mode, it does a good job of dealing with typical metro-Atlanta area traffic.
1 - Ability to hold any selected gear (specifically including top / 5th not possible in the new 300C, for instance) within as wide a range of rpm / mph as practical. I typically run my cars (current and last 2 have has Man-u-matic functionality) at highway speeds ‘locked’ in 5th gear. This allows only TCC unlock, regardless of throttle opening, unless I manually force / request a downshift. Even in a very good automatic, I find the pause (“Are you really serious about this, Mr. Driver?”) before downshifts at highway speed to be rather annoying. This works well for me when in typical 50 – 80 mph traffic. And I can actually hold 5th gear (in my current vehicle) down to about 10 mph – assuming I don’t mind rather leisurely acceleration.
2 - Ability to upshift at any (reasonable) rpm when at WOT. Oddly, BMW’s automanual (as recently as the 2002 model year) does NOT allow this.
3 – Does NOT execute an unrequested upshift except at redline and WOT. (Wish it did, instead of bouncing of the rev limiter, but that’s just me.) (Once again, BMW has some rather odd behavior here. And I really do like a lot about BMWs . . .)
4 - Ability to start in either 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear. And hold any of those gears from idle to redline - or until manually changed.
Just my $0.021251291 worth (precisely adjusted for inflation)
- Ray Wondering how an SST version on this trans. would perform behind the new Mustang’s V8 . . .
“Are you sure about this? I don't think it upshifts. Rather, it activates the rev limiter.
Doesn't it?”
“Typo?”
Well – I certainly was not clear. Clearly cannot proof my own copy!
Here is what I was trying to get at:
Some (I pick on BMW here again) implementations of these man-u-matic devices will actually upshift without being asked under certain circumstances LESS than WOT and (approaching / very close to) red line. BMW’s 3 Series (Steptronic?) did, at least up until about a year ago. It would sense backing off the throttle – wait a bit – then upshift, even when in ‘manual’ mode. I found this both disconcerting and annoying. The LS in SST mode will not do this. In 5th, it will not shift up (clearly - and sadly), and will not shift down (automatically) until just below 10 mph. In 1, 2 and 3, it will not ever shift up – or down without input from the driver.
And, yes, the SST mode in the Lincoln LS will bounce off the rev limiter rather than upshift in any gear. I find this behavior a bit odd, but others prefer it.
My sense is that if your right foot is buried in the carpet and you are approaching the rev limiter, you (and the vehicle) might be rather upset by a sudden interruption in acceleration. Certainly, if I wanted to stay in a certain gear, I’d be letting off as I approached the peak rpm, not still asking for “more power” from the engine room.
Sorry for any confusion.
YMMV. - Ray Perhaps not typical – in many ways . . .
Ray, I think their logic was to simulate as closely as possible the behavior of a manual transmission ... bounces off rev limiter rather than changing gears.
If I want the LS tranny to control upshifts for me, I'll put it in D4 or D5 & floor it.
"Perhaps not typical – in many ways" Are any of us gearheads tupical?
"Ray, I think their logic was to simulate as closely as possible the behavior of a manual transmission ... bounces off rev limiter rather than changing gears."
I believe that you are correct - and I believe that L-M folks have said that. I just disagree with their logic.
And I believe that it technically possible (almost trivial) to allow owners / drivers to customize many aspects of the vehicle behavior - so that it matches what we happen to think is logical.
Meaning: I need an automatic trans., for several reasons. But I enjoy the SST / man-u-matic mode that I have now. It allows me to make shift / no shift decisions when I want to – yet I can also allow the automatic to make decisions at other times, based on the shift lever position. In other words, I have a choice in how the trans. is controlled.
(I also have an Automatic Temp. Control mode on the HVAC system, but typically I run it in ‘manual’ mode.)
I think it is critical that all auto manufacturers address this issue of choice. Never more so than now.
With electronic systems in cars now so pervasive – there is the option / choice to offer amazing flexibility to tailor the car behavior to the individual. The 2005 Mustang will offer a wiiiide variety of instrument panel colors, for instance.
For my LS, in SST for example: [for driver 1, ID by remote / key] Car asks initially:
Mr. Driver, do you want the trans. to allow the engine to bump off the rev limiter and not upshift – if so, press 1.
If you want the trans. to upshift at redline instead – press 2.
(We are really only talking about interpretation of various electronic signals here – why not allow us choice?)
Want the trans. to upshift when shift lever is moved forward [default behavior] - press 1.
Prefer the trans. to upshift when the shift lever if moved to the rear (I believe BMW and others have selected this) – press 2.
Always start in 2nd (or even 3rd gear) for Winter driving – press 2.
Next Spring: resume default / always start in 1st gear – press 1.
Want the headlights to come on with the wipers – press 1. No – press 2.
Etc. Etc.
Let us select. Let us make the choice and tailor the vehicle behavior to us – not the reverse . . .
Just my $.01 (after rebates)
- Ray Preferring to have the car adjust to me (where it makes sense) rather than me adjust to the car . . .
Comments
I also have had to replace 1 back and 1 front window requlator since the warranty ran out about 8 months ago. My first lincoln. Maybe my last.
Look at a new car or truck that hasn't been preped. You'll see a piece of tape, usually yellow, on the tire and the wheel. That's put there by the tire manufacturer, and the wheel manufacturer to indicate how the tire should be indexed with the wheel.
Things can go awry when the tires are replaced. If the tire is randomly mounted on the wheel, it's possible that the "high spots" are together. When this happens, the tire/wheel assembly can be in perfect balance when spun on a balancing machine, but be an awful vibrator on the highway. Then you get to spend the extra $$ for the Hunter force variation machine & tire indexing.
I avoid this by marking the location of the yellow tapes when I buy the car. Even if the tape is removed, there's usually some residual adhesive on the wheel. Then, when I replace tires, I have them align the little dot on the tire sidewall with the wheel mark. Has worked for me every time.
I also have had to replace 1 back and 1 front window requlator since the warranty ran out about 8 months ago. My first lincoln. Maybe my last.”
Comments: First, and by far most important, I would never consider owning a contemporary vehicle as complex as my Lincoln LS (or pretty much any recent BMW, Audi, etc.) out of warrantee. Even a relatively simple parts failure, if it occurs in a hard to service area (a recent post referred to an HVAC valve or flap behind the dashboard, for instance) will likely be very difficult and expensive to repair or replace at today’s labor rates, even if the part is only $10.00 or $100.00.
And diagnosis and repair of major items like the trans. and motor related (electronic and other) components, when (not if) problems eventually occur, will likely be “breathtakingly” expensive.
/ on soapbox /
[This has been stated before here, by me and others, and elsewhere on Edmunds.
But I believe it is a point worth repeating. Unless you are mechanically and electronically skilled, and have access to dealership quality diagnostic equipment, tools, manuals, vehicle schematics, and unless you also have a LOT of time to devote to such activity – and at least 1 other vehicle available to use when the primary is out of service – I believe that a less expensive vehicle that is newer and still under original or extended MFR warrantee is a better choice for anyone and everyone.
Personally, I’d much rather budget a set amount for a car payment, and KNOW there will be no significant additional expenses each month for maintenance or repair. While I certainly do understand the potential attraction (see below) I also believe that buying a very nice vehicle (the LS is only one) that is out of warrantee skews the odds dramatically against the buyer. Driving a new Toyota Camry or Honda Accord (I hear $189 / 199 leases available locally) is probably not nearly as satisfying as driving a LS V8 for people that appreciate and enjoy the performance and driving experience offered by the LS - - when it is running right. But I would prefer not to risk potentially thousands of unbudgeted dollars to repair any vehicle. The risk would not be worth it – to me.
And years ago I certainly owned several vehicles well beyond warrantee. But if my current financial position demanded a choice between a new $20K vehicle and a (somehow better, by my definitions) used $20K vehicle that would demand that I pay for any and all maintenance and repair out of pocket, I would have to choose the new one. Just my opinion. YMMV.]
/ off soapbox /
- Ray
Who very nearly purchased a very nice, ’67 Jaguar E-Type, for a very attractive (initial) price, a couple of years ago – and (for this reason) is glad this did not come to pass . . .
Pete
Pab5, you don't seem tolerant of lectures, so I'll try to be gentle....but I don't understand why 2 window regulators makes you sour on a 4 year old car. FWIW, the window regulators used by Ford for the Jaguar and LS are also used in the BMW - made by the same subcontractor. But I'll bet if they failed in your Bimmer, that wouldn't be something that would make you say, "maybe my last", would it?
Anyway - it's a machine, it's gonna have issues as it ages. Personally, I lease so that I'm never out of warranty on my main drivers. Like rayainsw said.
I usually consider changing the automatic tranny fluid an annual task. However, given the complexity of changing the fluid in the LS, I reluctantly paid the dealer the $65 in labor to do mine.
With regard to warranty, I agree that it's somewhat spooky driving a highly complex vehicle when it's not covered. After some thought and considerstion, I spent $1200 to purchase a Ford Easy Care extended warranty for my 2000 LS. It's far cheaper than any new car would be. I bought another 3 years and 30,000 miles worth.
What are u talking about?
a 5 speed Ls is able to hide easier?
You bought an Ls 5 speed instead of FWD? Apples to oranges?
tire balancing rotating and tire wearing not straight
change the hydraulic bushing in the lower control arm ford dont sale
that bushing go to jaguar dealers and ask information about the tsb 204-07 may 2002 to remove vibration of the steering it will work
now am veery happy after 4 new tire 2 rotation 3 alignment
2 balance it was only that stupid hydraulic bushing at front
giving the problem this bushing is made in Germany and is exactly
the same as lincoln my dealer look stupid now he give me
a diagnostic tolding my car was inside the lincoln spec
and the lincoln supervisor who test my car without driving them
and tolding me evrything is in spec i think they gonna look
stupid in court i spend around 200$ bushing and camber bolts
1100$ tire 7 or 8 time dealers for the vibration 258$ at the dealers
because lincoln dont want to pay anymore and at least 800$ lawyer
and 275$ getting the bushing change and alignment
and 2 1/2 month lost turn around from a dealers to another
im gonna go in court for the time and money i lost.......
jaguar have handle this very differently and way faster
then lincoln if you have question contact me dwhitton1@hotmail.com
Last month I stalled 3 times on the same day and the day before yesterday I stalled twice. My LS had stalled in the past but the problem went away and only stalled my 2 or three times but the incidents were seperated almost by a month each. IIRC it had been almost 2 maybe three years since the last stalls that is till these recent events.
I have an 00 LS V6 Sport and have always used Chevron Premium fuel.
Thanks.
http://www.signaturelm.com
I ordered some fog lights and liscense lights from them. Good price and fast delivery.
The real question is why hasn't Lincoln put a TSB out on this to inform the dealers. Ford wasted a huge sum of money unsuccessfully attempting to fix the vibration in my 2000 LS, when it appears that all the time there was a relatively simple fix for it.
Also, if I understand what you said, you cannot purchase the replacement bushings at a Ford or Lincoln-Mercury dearler, but you have to go to a Jag dealer. This sounds like insanity.
No big deal.
I'm in a crummy mood this afternoon, I just noticed. Sorry folks
Manumatics are not now, never have been and never will be a substitute for a manual tranny. They simply give you better control of the automatic and some work better than others.
Clutchless SMGs really muddy the waters.
In upshifting, it behaves just like a manual tranny: Instead of upshifting, it activates the rev limiter if red line is exceeded.
In manual down-shifting, it prevents shifting into second at 110 MPH ... a good idea in my opinion.
Why?
(0.0 - Arthritis means I cannot ever again own a car with a clutch.)
0.5 - In full automatic mode, at WOT and max. rpm, it can snap off shifts very quickly but smoothly – a challenge, of course. At part throttle, again in full auto. mode, it does a good job of dealing with typical metro-Atlanta area traffic.
1 - Ability to hold any selected gear (specifically including top / 5th not possible in the new 300C, for instance) within as wide a range of rpm / mph as practical. I typically run my cars (current and last 2 have has Man-u-matic functionality) at highway speeds ‘locked’ in 5th gear. This allows only TCC unlock, regardless of throttle opening, unless I manually force / request a downshift. Even in a very good automatic, I find the pause (“Are you really serious about this, Mr. Driver?”) before downshifts at highway speed to be rather annoying. This works well for me when in typical 50 – 80 mph traffic. And I can actually hold 5th gear (in my current vehicle) down to about 10 mph – assuming I don’t mind rather leisurely acceleration.
2 - Ability to upshift at any (reasonable) rpm when at WOT. Oddly, BMW’s automanual (as recently as the 2002 model year) does NOT allow this.
3 – Does NOT execute an unrequested upshift except at redline and WOT. (Wish it did, instead of bouncing of the rev limiter, but that’s just me.) (Once again, BMW has some rather odd behavior here. And I really do like a lot about BMWs . . .)
4 - Ability to start in either 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear. And hold any of those gears from idle to redline - or until manually changed.
Just my $0.021251291 worth (precisely adjusted for inflation)
- Ray
Wondering how an SST version on this trans. would perform behind the new Mustang’s V8 . . .
Are you sure about this? I don't think it upshifts. Rather, it activates the rev limiter.
Doesn't it?
Doesn't it?”
“Typo?”
Well – I certainly was not clear. Clearly cannot proof my own copy!
Here is what I was trying to get at:
Some (I pick on BMW here again) implementations of these man-u-matic devices will actually upshift without being asked under certain circumstances LESS than WOT and (approaching / very close to) red line. BMW’s 3 Series (Steptronic?) did, at least up until about a year ago. It would sense backing off the throttle – wait a bit – then upshift, even when in ‘manual’ mode. I found this both disconcerting and annoying. The LS in SST mode will not do this. In 5th, it will not shift up (clearly - and sadly), and will not shift down (automatically) until just below 10 mph. In 1, 2 and 3, it will not ever shift up – or down without input from the driver.
And, yes, the SST mode in the Lincoln LS will bounce off the rev limiter rather than upshift in any gear. I find this behavior a bit odd, but others prefer it.
My sense is that if your right foot is buried in the carpet and you are approaching the rev limiter, you (and the vehicle) might be rather upset by a sudden interruption in acceleration. Certainly, if I wanted to stay in a certain gear, I’d be letting off as I approached the peak rpm, not still asking for “more power” from the engine room.
Sorry for any confusion.
YMMV.
- Ray
Perhaps not typical – in many ways . . .
If I want the LS tranny to control upshifts for me, I'll put it in D4 or D5 & floor it.
"Perhaps not typical – in many ways" Are any of us gearheads tupical?
I believe that you are correct - and I believe that L-M folks have said that. I just disagree with their logic.
And I believe that it technically possible (almost trivial) to allow owners / drivers to customize many aspects of the vehicle behavior - so that it matches what we happen to think is logical.
Meaning: I need an automatic trans., for several reasons. But I enjoy the SST / man-u-matic mode that I have now. It allows me to make shift / no shift decisions when I want to – yet I can also allow the automatic to make decisions at other times, based on the shift lever position. In other words, I have a choice in how the trans. is controlled.
(I also have an Automatic Temp. Control mode on the HVAC system, but typically I run it in ‘manual’ mode.)
I think it is critical that all auto manufacturers address this issue of choice. Never more so than now.
With electronic systems in cars now so pervasive – there is the option / choice to offer amazing flexibility to tailor the car behavior to the individual. The 2005 Mustang will offer a wiiiide variety of instrument panel colors, for instance.
For my LS, in SST for example: [for driver 1, ID by remote / key] Car asks initially:
Mr. Driver, do you want the trans. to allow the engine to bump off the rev limiter and not upshift – if so, press 1.
If you want the trans. to upshift at redline instead – press 2.
(We are really only talking about interpretation of various electronic signals here – why not allow us choice?)
Want the trans. to upshift when shift lever is moved forward [default behavior] - press 1.
Prefer the trans. to upshift when the shift lever if moved to the rear (I believe BMW and others have selected this) – press 2.
Always start in 2nd (or even 3rd gear) for Winter driving – press 2.
Next Spring: resume default / always start in 1st gear – press 1.
Want the headlights to come on with the wipers – press 1.
No – press 2.
Etc.
Etc.
Let us select. Let us make the choice and tailor the vehicle behavior to us – not the reverse . . .
Just my $.01 (after rebates)
- Ray
Preferring to have the car adjust to me (where it makes sense) rather than me adjust to the car . . .