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Comments
The dealer is telling me that the diagnostics indicate a kinked tube somewhere in the assembly, as the sensors are detecting a large pressure differential between the seat bottom and seat back. They spent considerable time on the phone with Ford to get to this conclusion. Apparently when this happens the related computer shuts the system down. Their solution is to send the seat out to an auto upholsterer to be "stripped", returned to them to inspect/repair the guts, sent back to the upholsterer to be recovered, and then returned to them for final installation and testing. Having said that, these guys have been terrific in their service and attitude from day one (16 - 18 cars ago!), and have looked after me very well.
Two questions for the LS gurus out there...
1) What do you think of the method of repair?
2) How does the bloody thing heat and cool, anyways? I do know that when it did work, the seat got cold enough to make me feel like I was sitting in the car with wet bathing trunks on!
Thanks! And I love the car- man, that thing launches when you give it some wellie :-)
Do a google search on peltier.
Yes - most dealers use auto upholstery shops anytime the seat covers must come off. Trust me - you don't want the mechanic doing it.
Jim
have a look to the 6 sub frame bolts 4 are located
just over the big hydrolic bushing in lower control arm and the 2 other are near the rack an
pignon all 6 was loose by 1 turn and a half on my car that will explain
why my bushing was no good wen i replace the bushing vibration was almost gone but the guy
look to this bolt and it was loose
With regards to some recent board entries regarding problems with the LS. Mine is a little over three years old, with over 45,000 miles. To date the only issues have been the replacement of an engine sensor and both rear window regulators. My dealer Harnish LM in Pullupe WA is outstanding and has fixed all issues quickly with not question.
The LS is fun to drive and I just wish the LM would show signs of continuing the breed, but does not look like it has a long term run. Not concerned for now as I expect to get another 3-5 years out of the car.
Is there a way to remove the water faster and how can I prevent this from happening again in the future? (other than getting another car)
thanks, I will e-mail you for the details.
It's the gray sealant that can be softened in the oven.
How about this? Since I have the black sealant, can I just remove the low & high beam bulbs and just put the entire housing in the oven at low temperatures to dry out the moisture?
As far as I know, the only cars that got the Black sealant (on the old style housings) from the factory were VERY late '02's and VERY early '03s. Other than that, they were (are) only used as replacement parts.
I just looked up the TSB it is (03-16-2) dated Aug 03.
So I'll give the dealership a call and see what they say.
Well all the fuses were OK, so I tried one more time and the engine cranked but no spark, no ignition just like before.
I was ready to call AAA and decided to rock the car by pushing on the bumper 3-times front and back (like checking shocks in the old days....!) and decided to try to start the car one more time.
Well, the car started!! Amazed, I let it idle as to charge the battery and I am hoping that it will start tomorrow morning for my trip to my dealer. I am not sure if this is a possible clue for Lincoln engineers at the factory for maybe resolving this stalling problem for me and many LS- owners that have had the same issues with the car.
As they say there are those who travel and those who travel well....if they can get started!! This problem is a factory design problem and owners should be compensated by the factory for the trial and error repair costs!!!
I have not experienced any stalls at red lights they seem to occur at speeds greater than 40 and less than 80. I have to pull over to the sholder and turn the ignition off for about 30 seconds to one minute and back on before I get to go vroom vroom again. No check engine light as of yet in all I have had about 12 stalls occur since my first poost.
Any constructive feedback would be greatly appreciated.
General observations (conditions on how and when the problem occurs)
1) The stalling is independent of humidity and temperature.
2) It is also independent of engine rpm/speed and throttle position.
3) When it happens there is no sign of engine misfire/hesitation and the condition is almost equivalent to ignition key shut-down. In other words ignition,injection and fuel pump systems all shutdown at the same time.
4) The car will not start until few minutes at rest.
Assumptions:
5) When the shut-down occurs the electronic sensors are not all back to their default condition that they would be if the engine was shut-down with the ignition key. However, when the engine electronics and sensors warm up or cool down depending on their respective mounting positions on the engine while in the vehicle shutdown state it is possible that their position changes enough to allow for engine restart and ignition to occur, similar to cold engine start ignition (except the engine is at operating temperature and not cold.)
6)If the condition that creates this problem was due to a bad wiring harness connector one would assume that it would occur more frequently and be possibly very repeatable.
7) It is not fuel pump or injection problem, because there are no visible warning signs that the stall will occur (i.e. misfire, etc.)
What is needed to diagnose and resolve problem.
Because the on board computer can't pick up any trouble code when the condition occurs (since it is almost equivalent to an ignition key shutdown why should the computer think there is a problem???) a CAN-bus/protocol monitoring instrument in the vehicle is needed for continuous and single shot monitoring, such that data on all sensors and electronics can be recorded during the following three phases.
Phase-1-data prior to the stall.
Phase-2-data taken during the stall and no start condition.
Phase-3-data taken after re-start and ignition and vehicle moving again.
Analyzing this data might provide more clues and possible resolution to the problem.
2) I am coming up to the end of my basic warranty. Which warranty companies would anyone recommed for an extended warranty? How much did you pay for yours?
Thanks in advance.
As for #2 - None and $0. If you can afford to pay cash for a warranty now you can afford to pay for a repair. It will ALWAYS be cheaper over time to insure yourself. Otherwise the insurance and warranty companies would be out of business already. The only time it makes sense to get an extended warranty is if you can't afford to pay for a repair (fixed income e.g.) and would rather finance it with the vehicle so you only pay a few dollars a month for it. Or if it just makes you feel better to have one, go for it but it will almost never save you money in the long run.
The other key is to NEVER buy an extended warranty on anything. If you try to pick and choose you'll end up buying warranties that you don't use and not having them when you need them.
If you must have one, just get powertrain coverage (the big ticket items) with a big deductible ($500 at least). That will be much cheaper than bumper to bumper with a $50 deductible while still providing protection against a several thousand dollar repair.
My stalls have have begun to happen so frequently now I have developed a rolling start technique that almost always keeps me from having to pull over and kill the ignition.
If I can catch the stall early enough I put the car in neutral and put the pedal to the metal the last time events I have successfuly recovered or prevented the full loss of power. If by chance i do not catch it early enough I place the car in neutral, while at highway speeds, and then rotate the iginition to the left unitl I have killed even the accy power. I coast while making my way safely to the right lane and allow the car to decellorate naturally; after about 30seconds to 1 minute I turn the ignition back on and attempt to start the car. This has worked 2 times.
as stated by martin, i think, there are really no precursors to the stall that would indicate it is about to happen. Typically, I just loose the ability to increase speed. Like a bolt from the blue it strikes and have used an obdII to search for codes. Sometimes I can goe hundreds of miles before it stalls and then there are times when it happens back to back to back all within miles of each other.
I cannot attribute it to time of day, temp, humidity or fuel source which has always been chevron supreme unleaded 93 octane. Fortuneately, the majority of these events have been on the interstate becasue this is where I spend most of my driving time but they have struck on city roads. A stalled Lincoln LS with its hazard lights on is not a pretty sight in the intersection.
I know several folks with the manual and have yet to see the first problem and these are high milage folks just like me.
I talked with the mechanic and he explained that my problem properly phrased is described as "SHUTDOWN" and not a "stall". I guess stall by definition has some hiccups/hesitation prior or during the actual dying phase. As for this condition I always drive with the "Advanced Trac" turned on. I wish I knew if this can occur as well with no advanced track. Has anyone experienced this shutdown with no Advance trac?? I started thinking if maybe marginal sensor in that part of that system could communicate a shutdown to the PCM (Power Train Control Module) creating the shutdown effect, providing such communication is there! The other possibility are all the solenoids/controls in the transmission that are somehow marginal which would explain why after the TSB-00-18-05 execution the issue went away for 6 months.
The TSB you mentioned does it have anything to do with the solenoid pack? I have had 3 replacements of the solenoid pack; the first was at about 40k miles +/- 5k.
Thanks for bringing what you have learned back to the forum.
belay my last.... I found this link by refining the search
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/32/003212DO.html
Ford sends this info to ~5000 dealers around the country using OASIS= "On Line Automotive Service Information System" and this TSB refers to (OASIS) message numbers/codes 503000, 607000, 607400.
Mania V has been cancelled for lack of partcipation. None are being considered for the future. The required minimum attendance was 50. That's .025% of LS owners. This may be the death knell of a soon-to-be-classic sedan.
Twenty or thirty zealots and six guys in the Ford Motor Corporation doesn't equal an enthusiast's car. The car is willing, but the spirit is weak.
I'm in Georgetown, CO, enjoying my car on the roads for which it was designed (my wife's in
Georgia visiting her sister). I've driven 1500 miles or so, so far for this trip, and have seen one (count it) other LS. I'll hit 70K miles in the next month or so, and should get to 100K sometime in '05 or early '06.
"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been."
I had a pool going with myself regarding when the cancellation would be announced. I hit the site from time to time to see what's being posted publicly, but haven't lately. Thanks for the update.
The next pool has to do when how long that organization will continue to exist.
I considered buying a 2003 LS, as the incentives were quite lucrative. However, since the value of my 2000 LS is dropping like a rock, I couldn't justify spending almost $20K just to upgrade 3 model years.
My 2000 has only 33,000 miles, and has been fairly trouble free, other than a couple of the known problems for that year. The dealer took care of those issues in a fairly painless manner, so overall, I'm happy with the car.
That, however, doesn't translate to sales of new cars for L-M, and that's the only thing that will keep the LS afloat, along with some advertising support. The advertising is nearly nonexistant, so I guess we know where the LS is heading....
As much trouble as I have had with this car I certainly hate to see it go.
No - the PCM is what activates the CEL in the first place so if it's flaky nothing will work the way it's supposed to. You get random failures with little or no warning. It's like your PC blue screening.
At any rate I spoke with the sa and the senior tech and they said that the pcm is either good or bad. That they have yet to witness one in the middle of the road.
I haven't heard anything from them yet, lord I hope the tech is still alive. I felt obligated to point out where the hazard lights are located just in case he didn't know as a joke of course. These folks seemed genuinely intersted in solving the porblem and in listening to me as well as educating me on a few points.
In fact when I mentioned that I had work performed previously on my AT they acknoledged that this was a common problem that they have seen in the LS and explained that their repair for the problem was differnt than that of the other dealer service center after looking at the work order from there and have yet to see a recurrence in cars that they fixed.
could be smoke but judging by the fact that they didn't want to see what the other shop has done in order to keep them from presuming what the problem is in this case i think they are on the up. The sa and the tech were very frank about doing thier own research and troubleshooting which I think is a feather in their hat.
I will keep you all posted in order to share the knowledge esp for those who have similar concerns. I pray this one doesn't go deep into the bank acount.
I have now learned that there are two in the fuel tank as if one wasn't bad enough to worry about. Tey should have used two window regulators scratch that
I have a question. I live in Florida and religously get my fuel from chevron which recently had an incident where they pumped fuel at the stations that had too much sulfur in it. I would like to know if anyone can provide a technical opinion as to whether or not excessive sulfur could damage a fuel pump. I hit the pump about 3 days a week which means i could have 48 gallons or more of defective fuel.
Ironically I was going to refuel at a Shell nearby my house and right before I turned in received a call and had to continue on my journey. I later found out the next day, they had closed it down because of high sulphur had damaged some of the vehicles... Close one.
We'll see how these replacement lamps hold up.
RE: 2001 Lincoln LS moisture in the headlamps.
At almost 70K miles, the engine (V6) is stronger than ever. I'm still very pleased with how the car pulls the Colorado mountains, and I saw a lot of them. I did add a quart of oil in the course of the journey, but there was lots of climbing and engine braking. I did all my favourites -- Million Dollar Highway, Grand Mesa, Loveland Pass, Mt. Evans, Slumgullion Pass & several others. Not much traffic = plenty of enjoyment. The weather could have been better, but the rain was needed.
I got a hair under 25.7 mpg, with lots of 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear climbing (gear selection dictated by speed, dictated by sharpness of curves, not by the need to shift down for more power). On a similar (but longer) trip in '00 (when the car was new), I got 24.4 mpg over 3645 miles. Looks like the engine is finally broken in. Not bad at all, but I still haven't figured out why my 3.5 litre '94 Eagle Vision got 1 - 2 mpg better under all the same conditions with a bigger engine that ran on regular.
Part of the trip had to do with stopping from time to time for bicycle rides. With the rear seat folded down, putting my bike in the trunk is a piece of cake. It does matter exactly how the pedals are positioned, but once figured out, it's easy. Anyway, this is why I'll probably have to think long and hard about ever buying a G35. They don't offer a fold-down rear seat -- the rear seats recline. My put is that most sports sedans are driven solo 95+% of the time, and trading the ability to bring a bike (or any other large object) along against increased comfort for passengers (who are almost never there) is questionable, at best.
The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S's are still fantastic, though they are showing their age. I'll probably squeeze another 5 or 10K out of them, but there's no doubt that I'll replace them with another set.
I caught and passed two more sets of motorcyclists. The kinds of roads that the LS loves are the same ones that give pause to two-wheelers, regardless of the power/displacement/weight advantages.
What a wonderful car.
What a horrible waste.
A lot of people worked very hard to provide me with a vehicle that I just enjoyed tremendously using in the manner for which I think it was intended. The vast (really, really (really) vast) majority of the people who drive LS's have absolutely no passion for cars, let alone actually driving them. The dealers. . .
If my car were totalled tomorrow, my replacement options are pretty bleak, given my requirement for a manual transmission, RWD (or AWD) and a fold-down rear seat. Looks pretty European to me. So far the LS has good long-term reliability written all over it. The next year or two will tell the tale (and the two or three after that, if all goes well). Don't think Audi or BMW have that potential, but will have to watch closely.
Oh well.
Oh yeah, I'm still on my original clutch. Plan to be for quite some time, in spite of the 4+ years of daily commuting in Phoenix rush-hour traffic.