My one month old LSV8 Sport is sitting at the dealers with the front driver's seat torn apart. The heat/cool function worked properly only the first time or two; since then it's decided that it would operate for only a couple or three minutes and then shut down. Once it does that it can only be reset by cycling the ignition.
The dealer is telling me that the diagnostics indicate a kinked tube somewhere in the assembly, as the sensors are detecting a large pressure differential between the seat bottom and seat back. They spent considerable time on the phone with Ford to get to this conclusion. Apparently when this happens the related computer shuts the system down. Their solution is to send the seat out to an auto upholsterer to be "stripped", returned to them to inspect/repair the guts, sent back to the upholsterer to be recovered, and then returned to them for final installation and testing. Having said that, these guys have been terrific in their service and attitude from day one (16 - 18 cars ago!), and have looked after me very well.
Two questions for the LS gurus out there...
1) What do you think of the method of repair?
2) How does the bloody thing heat and cool, anyways? I do know that when it did work, the seat got cold enough to make me feel like I was sitting in the car with wet bathing trunks on!
Thanks! And I love the car- man, that thing launches when you give it some wellie :-)
They use a peltier device which generates heat or cold based on the electrical polarity. The fan circulates the air throughout the seat. There is no coolant or refrigerant per se.
Do a google search on peltier.
Yes - most dealers use auto upholstery shops anytime the seat covers must come off. Trust me - you don't want the mechanic doing it.
Thought my experience might be useful to those of you that happen to have the manual 5 speed. About a month ago, I began to have some trouble with clutch disengagement when the car sat for more than 12 hours. Acted almost as if the slave cylinder piston seal was leaking some ( a problem Ford had with their trucks). The problem would dissappear by the the third or fourth shift. Initially, the dealer replaced the tran fluid - obviously to no effect. On the second trip in, they called Ford's hot line and ended up replacing flywheel, clutch, pressure plate and slave cylinder. The tech couldn't give a good reason for why all the components were replaced, but I wasn't going to complain. All is good now, but I'll give some more feedback in a month or so. Car only has 31k on the odometer.
to everybody getting vibration in steering have a look to the 6 sub frame bolts 4 are located just over the big hydrolic bushing in lower control arm and the 2 other are near the rack an pignon all 6 was loose by 1 turn and a half on my car that will explain why my bushing was no good wen i replace the bushing vibration was almost gone but the guy look to this bolt and it was loose
Just replaced the original Firehawks at 45,000 miles. (2001 Sport). Although there was still tread left, the last 5-7000 miles I had noticed that the car did not handle as well on curves, and often spun out on the least excuse. Put on Michelin Pilot Sport A/S V rated tires, and the difference is amazing. Not only do they handle fantastic, they are extreamly quiet, and a little smoother than the Firehawks. I selected the Pilot Sports based on comments from other satisfied users on this board, so keep the info comming.
With regards to some recent board entries regarding problems with the LS. Mine is a little over three years old, with over 45,000 miles. To date the only issues have been the replacement of an engine sensor and both rear window regulators. My dealer Harnish LM in Pullupe WA is outstanding and has fixed all issues quickly with not question.
The LS is fun to drive and I just wish the LM would show signs of continuing the breed, but does not look like it has a long term run. Not concerned for now as I expect to get another 3-5 years out of the car.
Is it me or are there others out there that also have this issue of intermittent water leaking into the headlamp? Every time I wash the car, water enters the passenger side's headlamp and it takes FOREVER for the water to evaporate.
Is there a way to remove the water faster and how can I prevent this from happening again in the future? (other than getting another car)
It's a very common problem - the glue doesn't seal it properly. You can fix it yourself by removing it and putting the entire assembly in the oven at low temps until the black sealant releases, then putting it back together. If you want more details email me.
I haven't thought about putting it in the oven. That's a great idea. I rather not spend +$270 to get a replacement lamp if it's a persistent manufacturing problem.
They've fixed the new ones - I think they use a different (grey) sealant. So if you did buy a replacement it should be ok. But it's a lot cheaper to fix it yourself or just live with it.
That's correct - I had it backwards. If you have grey glue you can put in the oven at 250 for no longer than 10 minutes. This will soften the glue and you can reseal it. Won't work for black.
Are the both of you talking about the rubber-link seal that goes around the top of the headlamp?
How about this? Since I have the black sealant, can I just remove the low & high beam bulbs and just put the entire housing in the oven at low temperatures to dry out the moisture?
Are you beyond warranty? If you are still under warranty, why not take it back to the dealer and get it repaired/replaced? Headlight assemblies are not supposed to leak by design.
It's the sealant that holds the clear lens to the headlamp body. Once it's hot you can remove the clear lens. But in this case you just want to heat it up and reseal it.
If you have the black sealant holding the halves together, you must have a newer car or a car that has had the headlights replaced per an obsolete TSB. Sorry, I don't remember the TSB number that called for total replacement, but it was superceeded by one calling for the service tech to simply spread new sealant over the seam. Anyway, one way or the other, the black sealant should be on a headlight new enough to be covered under warranty. All replacement parts carry a 12/12,000 warranty and all Lincolns have a 4/50,000 warranty. If you qualify, take it in. Leaking REPLACEMENT headlights should not be tolerated!
As far as I know, the only cars that got the Black sealant (on the old style housings) from the factory were VERY late '02's and VERY early '03s. Other than that, they were (are) only used as replacement parts.
November last year I had my dealer do the tranny flush TSB-00-18-05 the stalling problem went away until now. Coming home from work and decelerating about 300 feet from a red light the car stalled. It started about 2 minutes later and run fine all the way home. This morning it would not start at all. The classic problem no-spark, no-ignition like "no fuel symptoms" while cranking the engine. Prior to my call to AAA to have it towed to my dealer, I decided to check all the fuse covering ignition and fuel system. Well all the fuses were OK, so I tried one more time and the engine cranked but no spark, no ignition just like before.
I was ready to call AAA and decided to rock the car by pushing on the bumper 3-times front and back (like checking shocks in the old days....!) and decided to try to start the car one more time.
Well, the car started!! Amazed, I let it idle as to charge the battery and I am hoping that it will start tomorrow morning for my trip to my dealer. I am not sure if this is a possible clue for Lincoln engineers at the factory for maybe resolving this stalling problem for me and many LS- owners that have had the same issues with the car.
As they say there are those who travel and those who travel well....if they can get started!! This problem is a factory design problem and owners should be compensated by the factory for the trial and error repair costs!!!
Stalled 3 times this AM coming in to work. Seems to be more of persistent problem than those who had the occasional stall at a red light. Has anyone else out there been through this or maybe lend some insigt as to what the problem may be. I know if i droip this off at the dealer chances are they won't be able to duplicate this on the test drive.
I have not experienced any stalls at red lights they seem to occur at speeds greater than 40 and less than 80. I have to pull over to the sholder and turn the ignition off for about 30 seconds to one minute and back on before I get to go vroom vroom again. No check engine light as of yet in all I have had about 12 stalls occur since my first poost.
Any constructive feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Good news, I got the car to my dealer this morning. It started fine and stalled just once about 3 miles from the LM dealership and after a short 2 minute cool down it started up again and and made there. The more I thought about it from an engineering perspective (yes this is a life and death problem if it happens at the wrong place and time so I am lucky to be here to talk about it!) here is my brain dump on the subject:
General observations (conditions on how and when the problem occurs)
1) The stalling is independent of humidity and temperature.
2) It is also independent of engine rpm/speed and throttle position.
3) When it happens there is no sign of engine misfire/hesitation and the condition is almost equivalent to ignition key shut-down. In other words ignition,injection and fuel pump systems all shutdown at the same time.
4) The car will not start until few minutes at rest. Assumptions:
5) When the shut-down occurs the electronic sensors are not all back to their default condition that they would be if the engine was shut-down with the ignition key. However, when the engine electronics and sensors warm up or cool down depending on their respective mounting positions on the engine while in the vehicle shutdown state it is possible that their position changes enough to allow for engine restart and ignition to occur, similar to cold engine start ignition (except the engine is at operating temperature and not cold.)
6)If the condition that creates this problem was due to a bad wiring harness connector one would assume that it would occur more frequently and be possibly very repeatable.
7) It is not fuel pump or injection problem, because there are no visible warning signs that the stall will occur (i.e. misfire, etc.)
What is needed to diagnose and resolve problem.
Because the on board computer can't pick up any trouble code when the condition occurs (since it is almost equivalent to an ignition key shutdown why should the computer think there is a problem???) a CAN-bus/protocol monitoring instrument in the vehicle is needed for continuous and single shot monitoring, such that data on all sensors and electronics can be recorded during the following three phases.
Phase-1-data prior to the stall. Phase-2-data taken during the stall and no start condition. Phase-3-data taken after re-start and ignition and vehicle moving again.
Analyzing this data might provide more clues and possible resolution to the problem.
ago Lincoln engineers were supposed to be working on the "final solution" to this stalling thing. For a variety of reasons, I never heard how it turned out, but was aware that a year into the study they still hadn't figured it out.
Steve - this sounds different than the stall condition you're thinking of. That one was a stall when coming to a stop, especially after a left hand turn autocrossing (or was it a righty?). I think this is a different problem. Your dealer should be able to hook up an OBDII reader to do exactly what you mentioned at the end. Could be a faulty PCM - we've had a few of those.
1) I recently had Jiffy Lube flush my oil system and put synthetic oil in the engine. When I went to the dealership, they said that very few people ask for pure synthetic, and that they usually use a blend. Mine is an 01 LS V6 with 42K on the clock. Comments and suggestions are welcome.
2) I am coming up to the end of my basic warranty. Which warranty companies would anyone recommed for an extended warranty? How much did you pay for yours?
I believe the 5W-20 Ford oil is a synthetic blend. A lot of folks are running Mobil 1 5W-30 or 0W-40 (the latter is better in very cold climates). I can get the Mobil 1 5W-30 at Costco.
As for #2 - None and $0. If you can afford to pay cash for a warranty now you can afford to pay for a repair. It will ALWAYS be cheaper over time to insure yourself. Otherwise the insurance and warranty companies would be out of business already. The only time it makes sense to get an extended warranty is if you can't afford to pay for a repair (fixed income e.g.) and would rather finance it with the vehicle so you only pay a few dollars a month for it. Or if it just makes you feel better to have one, go for it but it will almost never save you money in the long run.
about the warranty. In fact, every time I have purchased one (and it has always been the Ford ESP warranty from the dealer, oops, except for that Dodge.....) I have never used it to the extent that I paid for it. But on the Dodge, I made out, the transmission failed. So you can come out ahead, but obviously, the insurance companies are winning or they wouldn't offer the product. Most of the time, you pay more for the warranty than you will use for repairs.
The key is "over time" and "long run". You may well have to pay for some repairs on one or two vehicles that cost more than the warranty, but more often than not you'll pay nothing or a lot less.
The other key is to NEVER buy an extended warranty on anything. If you try to pick and choose you'll end up buying warranties that you don't use and not having them when you need them.
If you must have one, just get powertrain coverage (the big ticket items) with a big deductible ($500 at least). That will be much cheaper than bumper to bumper with a $50 deductible while still providing protection against a several thousand dollar repair.
I think I've decided to NOT buy an extended warranty. My V6 LS has just under 49K on the clock so I've been thinkin about it. But the car has been quite reliable. The only non-wear item that broke was the front sway bar linkage. Another, perhaps the kicker, reason is: I've got the manual tranny. I priced out a warranty and found, not to my surprise, that the cost was the same whether I had an automatic or manual. I gotta believe the aut tranny will be much more trouble, on average, and will cost a lot more to fix than the 5speed. YMMV.
Wouldn't a faulty PCM through the Check Engine Light?
My stalls have have begun to happen so frequently now I have developed a rolling start technique that almost always keeps me from having to pull over and kill the ignition.
If I can catch the stall early enough I put the car in neutral and put the pedal to the metal the last time events I have successfuly recovered or prevented the full loss of power. If by chance i do not catch it early enough I place the car in neutral, while at highway speeds, and then rotate the iginition to the left unitl I have killed even the accy power. I coast while making my way safely to the right lane and allow the car to decellorate naturally; after about 30seconds to 1 minute I turn the ignition back on and attempt to start the car. This has worked 2 times.
as stated by martin, i think, there are really no precursors to the stall that would indicate it is about to happen. Typically, I just loose the ability to increase speed. Like a bolt from the blue it strikes and have used an obdII to search for codes. Sometimes I can goe hundreds of miles before it stalls and then there are times when it happens back to back to back all within miles of each other.
I cannot attribute it to time of day, temp, humidity or fuel source which has always been chevron supreme unleaded 93 octane. Fortuneately, the majority of these events have been on the interstate becasue this is where I spend most of my driving time but they have struck on city roads. A stalled Lincoln LS with its hazard lights on is not a pretty sight in the intersection.
I would have to say you are sitting pretty if you have the manual and opt out on the warranty. You would be better served with just putting 1800 to 2000 in a CD or your savings account and wait and see if your number ever comes up.
I know several folks with the manual and have yet to see the first problem and these are high milage folks just like me.
Well we can add in park at idle. I was at my childrens day care and stepped out of the car and left it running wth the AC on and in a matter iof minutes it stalled. I was standing next to the car when it happened and did not hear anything misfire or rough idle. It just quit running.
I talked with the mechanic and he explained that my problem properly phrased is described as "SHUTDOWN" and not a "stall". I guess stall by definition has some hiccups/hesitation prior or during the actual dying phase. As for this condition I always drive with the "Advanced Trac" turned on. I wish I knew if this can occur as well with no advanced track. Has anyone experienced this shutdown with no Advance trac?? I started thinking if maybe marginal sensor in that part of that system could communicate a shutdown to the PCM (Power Train Control Module) creating the shutdown effect, providing such communication is there! The other possibility are all the solenoids/controls in the transmission that are somehow marginal which would explain why after the TSB-00-18-05 execution the issue went away for 6 months.
well it just so happens that i turn mine off just about everytime I drive the car, honestly. I prefer to turn the things on that I want to use and the fact the the de facto condition for this feature is on has always grated at me.
The TSB you mentioned does it have anything to do with the solenoid pack? I have had 3 replacements of the solenoid pack; the first was at about 40k miles +/- 5k.
Thanks for bringing what you have learned back to the forum.
This TSB does not touch any solenoids or the tranny torque-converter. It is just a fluid change only. It simply states" that on some vehicles the transmission fluid filter maybe installed improperly during manufacturing and/or after servicing which may result in the vehicle exhibiting engine stalling at idle and/or no transmission engagement" please note that TSB does not states anything about "SHUTDOWN" just stalling only!
Ford sends this info to ~5000 dealers around the country using OASIS= "On Line Automotive Service Information System" and this TSB refers to (OASIS) message numbers/codes 503000, 607000, 607400.
Mania V has been cancelled for lack of partcipation. None are being considered for the future. The required minimum attendance was 50. That's .025% of LS owners. This may be the death knell of a soon-to-be-classic sedan.
sounded quite some time ago. Some were listening for it more carefully than others.
Twenty or thirty zealots and six guys in the Ford Motor Corporation doesn't equal an enthusiast's car. The car is willing, but the spirit is weak.
I'm in Georgetown, CO, enjoying my car on the roads for which it was designed (my wife's in Georgia visiting her sister). I've driven 1500 miles or so, so far for this trip, and have seen one (count it) other LS. I'll hit 70K miles in the next month or so, and should get to 100K sometime in '05 or early '06.
"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been."
I had a pool going with myself regarding when the cancellation would be announced. I hit the site from time to time to see what's being posted publicly, but haven't lately. Thanks for the update.
The next pool has to do when how long that organization will continue to exist.
...for quite a while. However, I think it will ultimately outlive the car.
I considered buying a 2003 LS, as the incentives were quite lucrative. However, since the value of my 2000 LS is dropping like a rock, I couldn't justify spending almost $20K just to upgrade 3 model years.
My 2000 has only 33,000 miles, and has been fairly trouble free, other than a couple of the known problems for that year. The dealer took care of those issues in a fairly painless manner, so overall, I'm happy with the car.
That, however, doesn't translate to sales of new cars for L-M, and that's the only thing that will keep the LS afloat, along with some advertising support. The advertising is nearly nonexistant, so I guess we know where the LS is heading....
I am shocked everytime a Lincoln commercial rolls on screen and narry a word is mentioned about the LS. In this case it appears that the writting is not on the wall in regards to the LS's future.
As much trouble as I have had with this car I certainly hate to see it go.
"Wouldn't a faulty PCM through the Check Engine Light? "
No - the PCM is what activates the CEL in the first place so if it's flaky nothing will work the way it's supposed to. You get random failures with little or no warning. It's like your PC blue screening.
Dropped my LS off yesterday at 5pm EST since this stalling ordeal is more consistent than tax day and had 3 near death experiences after stalling at a red light. Nothing like seeing a sport utte zoom up on your six o'clock and narrowly missing you SHEW that is living. At that point I pretty signed on with martin3's philosphy that this is a safety hazard.
At any rate I spoke with the sa and the senior tech and they said that the pcm is either good or bad. That they have yet to witness one in the middle of the road.
I haven't heard anything from them yet, lord I hope the tech is still alive. I felt obligated to point out where the hazard lights are located just in case he didn't know as a joke of course. These folks seemed genuinely intersted in solving the porblem and in listening to me as well as educating me on a few points.
In fact when I mentioned that I had work performed previously on my AT they acknoledged that this was a common problem that they have seen in the LS and explained that their repair for the problem was differnt than that of the other dealer service center after looking at the work order from there and have yet to see a recurrence in cars that they fixed.
could be smoke but judging by the fact that they didn't want to see what the other shop has done in order to keep them from presuming what the problem is in this case i think they are on the up. The sa and the tech were very frank about doing thier own research and troubleshooting which I think is a feather in their hat.
I will keep you all posted in order to share the knowledge esp for those who have similar concerns. I pray this one doesn't go deep into the bank acount.
Spoke with the SA at Courtesy LM and they were able to duplicate the problem on the road test, got it 3 times in a row just like had, any way they are driving it again tonight with fuel presure gauges attached in the engine compartment to record the line pressure tonight on the ride home as they think it may be fuel pump(s).
I have now learned that there are two in the fuel tank as if one wasn't bad enough to worry about. Tey should have used two window regulators scratch that . So the wait is on I will have to wait till the morning for confirmation.
I have a question. I live in Florida and religously get my fuel from chevron which recently had an incident where they pumped fuel at the stations that had too much sulfur in it. I would like to know if anyone can provide a technical opinion as to whether or not excessive sulfur could damage a fuel pump. I hit the pump about 3 days a week which means i could have 48 gallons or more of defective fuel.
Yes it could be an issue, those fuel companies said they were willing to fix the issue's that may have caused damage to your vehicle. Provided that you show proof that you refueled at one of the stations affected with the issue.
Ironically I was going to refuel at a Shell nearby my house and right before I turned in received a call and had to continue on my journey. I later found out the next day, they had closed it down because of high sulphur had damaged some of the vehicles... Close one.
On Friday 6/25 I took the car in and they replaced both headlamps that had moisture in them. It was still under the 4/50,000 warranty so it was at no cost.
from a not-quite one week drive up to and around Colorado, from Phoenix -- a little under 2600 miles. Some observations:
At almost 70K miles, the engine (V6) is stronger than ever. I'm still very pleased with how the car pulls the Colorado mountains, and I saw a lot of them. I did add a quart of oil in the course of the journey, but there was lots of climbing and engine braking. I did all my favourites -- Million Dollar Highway, Grand Mesa, Loveland Pass, Mt. Evans, Slumgullion Pass & several others. Not much traffic = plenty of enjoyment. The weather could have been better, but the rain was needed.
I got a hair under 25.7 mpg, with lots of 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear climbing (gear selection dictated by speed, dictated by sharpness of curves, not by the need to shift down for more power). On a similar (but longer) trip in '00 (when the car was new), I got 24.4 mpg over 3645 miles. Looks like the engine is finally broken in. Not bad at all, but I still haven't figured out why my 3.5 litre '94 Eagle Vision got 1 - 2 mpg better under all the same conditions with a bigger engine that ran on regular.
Part of the trip had to do with stopping from time to time for bicycle rides. With the rear seat folded down, putting my bike in the trunk is a piece of cake. It does matter exactly how the pedals are positioned, but once figured out, it's easy. Anyway, this is why I'll probably have to think long and hard about ever buying a G35. They don't offer a fold-down rear seat -- the rear seats recline. My put is that most sports sedans are driven solo 95+% of the time, and trading the ability to bring a bike (or any other large object) along against increased comfort for passengers (who are almost never there) is questionable, at best.
The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S's are still fantastic, though they are showing their age. I'll probably squeeze another 5 or 10K out of them, but there's no doubt that I'll replace them with another set.
I caught and passed two more sets of motorcyclists. The kinds of roads that the LS loves are the same ones that give pause to two-wheelers, regardless of the power/displacement/weight advantages.
What a wonderful car.
What a horrible waste.
A lot of people worked very hard to provide me with a vehicle that I just enjoyed tremendously using in the manner for which I think it was intended. The vast (really, really (really) vast) majority of the people who drive LS's have absolutely no passion for cars, let alone actually driving them. The dealers. . .
If my car were totalled tomorrow, my replacement options are pretty bleak, given my requirement for a manual transmission, RWD (or AWD) and a fold-down rear seat. Looks pretty European to me. So far the LS has good long-term reliability written all over it. The next year or two will tell the tale (and the two or three after that, if all goes well). Don't think Audi or BMW have that potential, but will have to watch closely.
Oh well.
Oh yeah, I'm still on my original clutch. Plan to be for quite some time, in spite of the 4+ years of daily commuting in Phoenix rush-hour traffic.
Actually, I might be wrong, but I think the premium required for the increased performance in your LS over your vision, could consume the extra MPGs pretty easily.....
Comments
The dealer is telling me that the diagnostics indicate a kinked tube somewhere in the assembly, as the sensors are detecting a large pressure differential between the seat bottom and seat back. They spent considerable time on the phone with Ford to get to this conclusion. Apparently when this happens the related computer shuts the system down. Their solution is to send the seat out to an auto upholsterer to be "stripped", returned to them to inspect/repair the guts, sent back to the upholsterer to be recovered, and then returned to them for final installation and testing. Having said that, these guys have been terrific in their service and attitude from day one (16 - 18 cars ago!), and have looked after me very well.
Two questions for the LS gurus out there...
1) What do you think of the method of repair?
2) How does the bloody thing heat and cool, anyways? I do know that when it did work, the seat got cold enough to make me feel like I was sitting in the car with wet bathing trunks on!
Thanks! And I love the car- man, that thing launches when you give it some wellie :-)
Do a google search on peltier.
Yes - most dealers use auto upholstery shops anytime the seat covers must come off. Trust me - you don't want the mechanic doing it.
Jim
have a look to the 6 sub frame bolts 4 are located
just over the big hydrolic bushing in lower control arm and the 2 other are near the rack an
pignon all 6 was loose by 1 turn and a half on my car that will explain
why my bushing was no good wen i replace the bushing vibration was almost gone but the guy
look to this bolt and it was loose
With regards to some recent board entries regarding problems with the LS. Mine is a little over three years old, with over 45,000 miles. To date the only issues have been the replacement of an engine sensor and both rear window regulators. My dealer Harnish LM in Pullupe WA is outstanding and has fixed all issues quickly with not question.
The LS is fun to drive and I just wish the LM would show signs of continuing the breed, but does not look like it has a long term run. Not concerned for now as I expect to get another 3-5 years out of the car.
Is there a way to remove the water faster and how can I prevent this from happening again in the future? (other than getting another car)
thanks, I will e-mail you for the details.
It's the gray sealant that can be softened in the oven.
How about this? Since I have the black sealant, can I just remove the low & high beam bulbs and just put the entire housing in the oven at low temperatures to dry out the moisture?
As far as I know, the only cars that got the Black sealant (on the old style housings) from the factory were VERY late '02's and VERY early '03s. Other than that, they were (are) only used as replacement parts.
I just looked up the TSB it is (03-16-2) dated Aug 03.
So I'll give the dealership a call and see what they say.
Well all the fuses were OK, so I tried one more time and the engine cranked but no spark, no ignition just like before.
I was ready to call AAA and decided to rock the car by pushing on the bumper 3-times front and back (like checking shocks in the old days....!) and decided to try to start the car one more time.
Well, the car started!! Amazed, I let it idle as to charge the battery and I am hoping that it will start tomorrow morning for my trip to my dealer. I am not sure if this is a possible clue for Lincoln engineers at the factory for maybe resolving this stalling problem for me and many LS- owners that have had the same issues with the car.
As they say there are those who travel and those who travel well....if they can get started!! This problem is a factory design problem and owners should be compensated by the factory for the trial and error repair costs!!!
I have not experienced any stalls at red lights they seem to occur at speeds greater than 40 and less than 80. I have to pull over to the sholder and turn the ignition off for about 30 seconds to one minute and back on before I get to go vroom vroom again. No check engine light as of yet in all I have had about 12 stalls occur since my first poost.
Any constructive feedback would be greatly appreciated.
General observations (conditions on how and when the problem occurs)
1) The stalling is independent of humidity and temperature.
2) It is also independent of engine rpm/speed and throttle position.
3) When it happens there is no sign of engine misfire/hesitation and the condition is almost equivalent to ignition key shut-down. In other words ignition,injection and fuel pump systems all shutdown at the same time.
4) The car will not start until few minutes at rest.
Assumptions:
5) When the shut-down occurs the electronic sensors are not all back to their default condition that they would be if the engine was shut-down with the ignition key. However, when the engine electronics and sensors warm up or cool down depending on their respective mounting positions on the engine while in the vehicle shutdown state it is possible that their position changes enough to allow for engine restart and ignition to occur, similar to cold engine start ignition (except the engine is at operating temperature and not cold.)
6)If the condition that creates this problem was due to a bad wiring harness connector one would assume that it would occur more frequently and be possibly very repeatable.
7) It is not fuel pump or injection problem, because there are no visible warning signs that the stall will occur (i.e. misfire, etc.)
What is needed to diagnose and resolve problem.
Because the on board computer can't pick up any trouble code when the condition occurs (since it is almost equivalent to an ignition key shutdown why should the computer think there is a problem???) a CAN-bus/protocol monitoring instrument in the vehicle is needed for continuous and single shot monitoring, such that data on all sensors and electronics can be recorded during the following three phases.
Phase-1-data prior to the stall.
Phase-2-data taken during the stall and no start condition.
Phase-3-data taken after re-start and ignition and vehicle moving again.
Analyzing this data might provide more clues and possible resolution to the problem.
2) I am coming up to the end of my basic warranty. Which warranty companies would anyone recommed for an extended warranty? How much did you pay for yours?
Thanks in advance.
As for #2 - None and $0. If you can afford to pay cash for a warranty now you can afford to pay for a repair. It will ALWAYS be cheaper over time to insure yourself. Otherwise the insurance and warranty companies would be out of business already. The only time it makes sense to get an extended warranty is if you can't afford to pay for a repair (fixed income e.g.) and would rather finance it with the vehicle so you only pay a few dollars a month for it. Or if it just makes you feel better to have one, go for it but it will almost never save you money in the long run.
The other key is to NEVER buy an extended warranty on anything. If you try to pick and choose you'll end up buying warranties that you don't use and not having them when you need them.
If you must have one, just get powertrain coverage (the big ticket items) with a big deductible ($500 at least). That will be much cheaper than bumper to bumper with a $50 deductible while still providing protection against a several thousand dollar repair.
My stalls have have begun to happen so frequently now I have developed a rolling start technique that almost always keeps me from having to pull over and kill the ignition.
If I can catch the stall early enough I put the car in neutral and put the pedal to the metal the last time events I have successfuly recovered or prevented the full loss of power. If by chance i do not catch it early enough I place the car in neutral, while at highway speeds, and then rotate the iginition to the left unitl I have killed even the accy power. I coast while making my way safely to the right lane and allow the car to decellorate naturally; after about 30seconds to 1 minute I turn the ignition back on and attempt to start the car. This has worked 2 times.
as stated by martin, i think, there are really no precursors to the stall that would indicate it is about to happen. Typically, I just loose the ability to increase speed. Like a bolt from the blue it strikes and have used an obdII to search for codes. Sometimes I can goe hundreds of miles before it stalls and then there are times when it happens back to back to back all within miles of each other.
I cannot attribute it to time of day, temp, humidity or fuel source which has always been chevron supreme unleaded 93 octane. Fortuneately, the majority of these events have been on the interstate becasue this is where I spend most of my driving time but they have struck on city roads. A stalled Lincoln LS with its hazard lights on is not a pretty sight in the intersection.
I know several folks with the manual and have yet to see the first problem and these are high milage folks just like me.
I talked with the mechanic and he explained that my problem properly phrased is described as "SHUTDOWN" and not a "stall". I guess stall by definition has some hiccups/hesitation prior or during the actual dying phase. As for this condition I always drive with the "Advanced Trac" turned on. I wish I knew if this can occur as well with no advanced track. Has anyone experienced this shutdown with no Advance trac?? I started thinking if maybe marginal sensor in that part of that system could communicate a shutdown to the PCM (Power Train Control Module) creating the shutdown effect, providing such communication is there! The other possibility are all the solenoids/controls in the transmission that are somehow marginal which would explain why after the TSB-00-18-05 execution the issue went away for 6 months.
The TSB you mentioned does it have anything to do with the solenoid pack? I have had 3 replacements of the solenoid pack; the first was at about 40k miles +/- 5k.
Thanks for bringing what you have learned back to the forum.
belay my last.... I found this link by refining the search
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/32/003212DO.html
Ford sends this info to ~5000 dealers around the country using OASIS= "On Line Automotive Service Information System" and this TSB refers to (OASIS) message numbers/codes 503000, 607000, 607400.
Mania V has been cancelled for lack of partcipation. None are being considered for the future. The required minimum attendance was 50. That's .025% of LS owners. This may be the death knell of a soon-to-be-classic sedan.
Twenty or thirty zealots and six guys in the Ford Motor Corporation doesn't equal an enthusiast's car. The car is willing, but the spirit is weak.
I'm in Georgetown, CO, enjoying my car on the roads for which it was designed (my wife's in
Georgia visiting her sister). I've driven 1500 miles or so, so far for this trip, and have seen one (count it) other LS. I'll hit 70K miles in the next month or so, and should get to 100K sometime in '05 or early '06.
"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been."
I had a pool going with myself regarding when the cancellation would be announced. I hit the site from time to time to see what's being posted publicly, but haven't lately. Thanks for the update.
The next pool has to do when how long that organization will continue to exist.
I considered buying a 2003 LS, as the incentives were quite lucrative. However, since the value of my 2000 LS is dropping like a rock, I couldn't justify spending almost $20K just to upgrade 3 model years.
My 2000 has only 33,000 miles, and has been fairly trouble free, other than a couple of the known problems for that year. The dealer took care of those issues in a fairly painless manner, so overall, I'm happy with the car.
That, however, doesn't translate to sales of new cars for L-M, and that's the only thing that will keep the LS afloat, along with some advertising support. The advertising is nearly nonexistant, so I guess we know where the LS is heading....
As much trouble as I have had with this car I certainly hate to see it go.
No - the PCM is what activates the CEL in the first place so if it's flaky nothing will work the way it's supposed to. You get random failures with little or no warning. It's like your PC blue screening.
At any rate I spoke with the sa and the senior tech and they said that the pcm is either good or bad. That they have yet to witness one in the middle of the road.
I haven't heard anything from them yet, lord I hope the tech is still alive. I felt obligated to point out where the hazard lights are located just in case he didn't know as a joke of course. These folks seemed genuinely intersted in solving the porblem and in listening to me as well as educating me on a few points.
In fact when I mentioned that I had work performed previously on my AT they acknoledged that this was a common problem that they have seen in the LS and explained that their repair for the problem was differnt than that of the other dealer service center after looking at the work order from there and have yet to see a recurrence in cars that they fixed.
could be smoke but judging by the fact that they didn't want to see what the other shop has done in order to keep them from presuming what the problem is in this case i think they are on the up. The sa and the tech were very frank about doing thier own research and troubleshooting which I think is a feather in their hat.
I will keep you all posted in order to share the knowledge esp for those who have similar concerns. I pray this one doesn't go deep into the bank acount.
I have now learned that there are two in the fuel tank as if one wasn't bad enough to worry about. Tey should have used two window regulators scratch that
I have a question. I live in Florida and religously get my fuel from chevron which recently had an incident where they pumped fuel at the stations that had too much sulfur in it. I would like to know if anyone can provide a technical opinion as to whether or not excessive sulfur could damage a fuel pump. I hit the pump about 3 days a week which means i could have 48 gallons or more of defective fuel.
Ironically I was going to refuel at a Shell nearby my house and right before I turned in received a call and had to continue on my journey. I later found out the next day, they had closed it down because of high sulphur had damaged some of the vehicles... Close one.
We'll see how these replacement lamps hold up.
RE: 2001 Lincoln LS moisture in the headlamps.
At almost 70K miles, the engine (V6) is stronger than ever. I'm still very pleased with how the car pulls the Colorado mountains, and I saw a lot of them. I did add a quart of oil in the course of the journey, but there was lots of climbing and engine braking. I did all my favourites -- Million Dollar Highway, Grand Mesa, Loveland Pass, Mt. Evans, Slumgullion Pass & several others. Not much traffic = plenty of enjoyment. The weather could have been better, but the rain was needed.
I got a hair under 25.7 mpg, with lots of 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear climbing (gear selection dictated by speed, dictated by sharpness of curves, not by the need to shift down for more power). On a similar (but longer) trip in '00 (when the car was new), I got 24.4 mpg over 3645 miles. Looks like the engine is finally broken in. Not bad at all, but I still haven't figured out why my 3.5 litre '94 Eagle Vision got 1 - 2 mpg better under all the same conditions with a bigger engine that ran on regular.
Part of the trip had to do with stopping from time to time for bicycle rides. With the rear seat folded down, putting my bike in the trunk is a piece of cake. It does matter exactly how the pedals are positioned, but once figured out, it's easy. Anyway, this is why I'll probably have to think long and hard about ever buying a G35. They don't offer a fold-down rear seat -- the rear seats recline. My put is that most sports sedans are driven solo 95+% of the time, and trading the ability to bring a bike (or any other large object) along against increased comfort for passengers (who are almost never there) is questionable, at best.
The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S's are still fantastic, though they are showing their age. I'll probably squeeze another 5 or 10K out of them, but there's no doubt that I'll replace them with another set.
I caught and passed two more sets of motorcyclists. The kinds of roads that the LS loves are the same ones that give pause to two-wheelers, regardless of the power/displacement/weight advantages.
What a wonderful car.
What a horrible waste.
A lot of people worked very hard to provide me with a vehicle that I just enjoyed tremendously using in the manner for which I think it was intended. The vast (really, really (really) vast) majority of the people who drive LS's have absolutely no passion for cars, let alone actually driving them. The dealers. . .
If my car were totalled tomorrow, my replacement options are pretty bleak, given my requirement for a manual transmission, RWD (or AWD) and a fold-down rear seat. Looks pretty European to me. So far the LS has good long-term reliability written all over it. The next year or two will tell the tale (and the two or three after that, if all goes well). Don't think Audi or BMW have that potential, but will have to watch closely.
Oh well.
Oh yeah, I'm still on my original clutch. Plan to be for quite some time, in spite of the 4+ years of daily commuting in Phoenix rush-hour traffic.