Thanks for sharing the info. My LS is still at my dealer's service department waiting for black-box (kind of like-flight recorder) to be mounted in the car. it will be there until July 6th. They could not get it to shutdown when service tech drove the car. So, I am not as lucky, but still positive that the flight recorder will capture the problem. The LS is such a great machine when it works and I would hate to get rid off it.
Ironically I just got a special in the mail on new 2004 LS with $3500 in rebates! Well at this time, I would not even think about purchasing another one until this shutdown issue is truly resolved! If the issue does not get resolved this will be my last Ford product purchased. BTW-The June 28 issue of Fortune has a great article on Ford and their shrinking share of the market (see graph on page 70). The new Bill F. Jr. strategy is working..."yes they are loosing market share fast...." LM has 18% share now and 10 year's ago they were 25.4%!
I had expected that the service folks might run in to the same problem, not being able to duplicate the problem, when testing my car so I pretty much just gave it to them with a ful tank of gas and said drive it like it is stolen but just give it back to me fixed. I also told them I didn't want any guessing about what the problem is.
>> question: if you take your car in to be fixed and they say they fixed it and you get off the lot and the problem comes back up like a heavy dose of hot sauce are they responsible for the next fix under the 12 month 12k mile warranty? After all they said the problem is corrected and you paid in good faith.
I thought that I would have recvd a phone call from them yesterday either confirming of denying that the fuel pump(s) are bad. I called about 230 yesterday and have yet to have my call returned. So i am guessing that the fuel pump(s) are not the issue. I know tha as soon as i find the solution to a problem in my line of work I jump right up and sing a song about it, LOL.
I wonder if these folks that are working on our cars have access to Lincoln engineers for tech support if they can't nail it down. Like you I would love to trade out of this albatross but ethically I can't dump this on some unsuspecting dealer.
That's a great set of ethics you have there gm, and I really applaud you. But honestly, the dealer would probably wholesale the car off anyway, making it someone downstream's problem.
I hope they can find it. A "no problem found" diagnosis is the worst.
Yeah I figured some other sap would get sand bagged with it and ultimately that is what I want to avoid. Plus I really don't want to have to buy a new car at least until 2006 I have a good feeling there will be some great offerings out there for manual tranny lovers; I being one of them. I had to settle for the auto when I bought mine and I will not settle on my next purchase.
I certainly apperciate your offering of hope no one wants this fixed more than I do. And being that 2.5 days have passed since they spoke with me it isn't looking good is it?
That usually means they don't have any news yet - they're stumped and waiting for the Ford rep to come into town - or possibly, and we'll hope for this, they think they have it, and are waiting for a part? It would be great if they'd keep you informed, but they usually don't.
You know, this could be as simple as a bad ground to the frame somewhere.....
After waiting on hold for the SA for about 5 minutes the recptionist was kind enough to call the tech up front to give me the low down.
Hhas duplicated the problem multiple times with various diag tools and the most telling is the fule line pressure at the engine. It seems that it dips to about 10psi during these episodes and has peaks upwards to 65psi. So it looks like I am about to be the proud owner of two new fule pumps, 1 new fuel filter and they are going to clean the lines for around 900 dollars.
I can't see what good line cleaning can have on the overall health of the fuel system. I don't have a jealous wife or girl friend that would poor sugar down my tank. You can confirm my satisfaction rating with Mrs. GunnerMate if you like; I bet it is a sound 100%. Any way enough of the Bravo Zulu's for myself.
They don't have the pumps in stock so i don't expect that work will begin till tuesday, so i may have my LS Grin back on by Thursday. I hope!
Happy Independence day to you all. Travel well and drive safely.
IIRC, only one of the pumps provides system pressure. The second is simply a transfer pump to get fuel over the center hump in the tank. Not sure if it's worth messing around replacing only one, though...
This is my first Lincoln and it is the best car I have ever owned. Among others I have owned Volvos, Saabs, and Cadillacs and none compare to my LS. The engine has plenty of power and the sport suspension makes it handle like a sports car. But its luxury and features betray it.
I just recently became aware of the LS. I wonder why Lincoln never advertised this car. They deserve praise for developing it but deserve criticism for neglecting to promote it.
Oh, that's one of our main complaints around here. Lincoln did advertise this car back in 99 or 00, I forget which, for about a minute & a half, as it was then to be the "new direction of Lincoln". But, that was in Nasser's day, and this is now, and Lincoln seems to be the stepchild of Bill Ford at the moment while he concentrates on fixing the company. Hopefully, when Bill comes out of the ether, (and I'm a Bill fan, BTW,) he's get around to new product and a clear mission and direction for what Lincoln is supposed to be. Meantime, you just acquired one of the best values for the money in the world, IMO. That car is way over-engineered for what you paid for it.
Not sure about the function of the but I am going to replace both. When I did the work on my AC clutch coil rather than just rebuild it i chose to replace the compressor and clutch coil. I did want to have to go back in their in a few thousand miles to replace the compressor I just took apart.It just makes more sense to do it all in one swelled foop as my grand father would say.
Intrepid in January, 2005, one of the cars on my list is a 2003 LS premium sport...I want the luxury with all the storage space, the 280 HP V8, and I want the HID headlights, which, if I read correctly, are only available on the premium sport...By Dec-Jan, the 2003 will be, obviously, 2 model years old...any ideas from y'all on what the trade-in value would be and what a dealer might sell it for???...would retail be under $30K???...assume mileage of no more than 30K miles for 2 years use...a 2-3 year old Caddy DTS or STS goes in the high $20s to very low $30s, and I am hoping the LS depreciates likewise (of course, if I paid MSRP for mine I would HATE depreciation, but 2 year old American cars usually depreciate like rocks in the first 2-3 years...
You're probably looking at a new sale price of $32-$35K on a 2003 so figure a 2 year old model would be upper teens/low 20's for retail depending on condition and local supply/demand.
Hi Marsha, you can check the autotrade zone web site for pricing. Select the model and any distance from your location. I have seen regular 2003 ls cars with less then 10K miles posted there for under $25K. My guess is that with higher miles the $25K price would be about right! http://www.autotradezone.com/search_autos.aspx
I got my LS Grin reinstalled today. Two fuel pumps, line flushing and a great car wash seems to have done the trick. Knock on wood but I am confident that they, Courtesy LM in Brandon, Fl, thoroughly tested for the problem before and after the repair.
Ok can I say I got goose bumps and nearly teared up from all the joy i got from hanging this tight on ramp to I-75S although it could have just been something in my eye and the AC was set to 60.
*Martin3* any word on what caused your stall problem(s)
I am a numbers guy so pardon me in advance for the misspellings :-).
I bought an LS in OCT. 99 and have fallen in love with a car for the first time in my life. Now I am worried about the fate of the LS. The car rags haven't given the LS the credit it deserves. Nor has Lincoln promoted this car as they should have. I understand a lack of funds helped hinder the ability to display this car more prominently. I understand as well that the people at Lincoln have a great car but little clue on how to market it. What I don't understand is how an ugly car like the Caddy CTS can produce so many different offsprings in a short period of time. WTF! Did caddy just have better planners in their think tank and marketing department (they sure didn't have them in the styling department of the CTS). And all the stupid car rags have done for the past 4+ years is complain about the LS's transmission! People should not speak there opinion unless they have had significant experience with a car or given situation. Sure I had to have my PCM reflashed but that is nothing compared to the umpteen number of problems I have heard from Benz, BMW and Lexus owners in person and in online forums. Sometimes I just want to preach the gospel of this car. Tell people about the exhilaration of driving in 2nd & 3rd gear on Huffaker Road( twist and turn city)! The astonishment of finding out what kind of power is left in reserve for passing. The feeling of getting out of a car without your back hurting ( i have a bad back) after an 8 hour drive to the pan handle of Florida. The ability to come to a complete stop, in a straight line, with out nose diving. The only gripes I had was that I needed more storage space for maps,paperwork,cd's and better cup holders than us first model year buyers received. Now I will get off my soap box.
The new Zephyr might be a winner. The Continental concept design looks like a very sweet car. Any new LS body style news or is this car's future in Limbo?
Now a message to Lincoln. I am a month from being 30 years old. I believe I am in one of your most targeted demographics (young professional who enjoys a quality car). I am a nerd by trade (database admin) but one of the things it has taught me is to be prepared. Best case worst case scenarios. Plan...it is easier and more cost effective to fix in the planning stage than once something goes wrong in the real world. Build on success but remeber your out of the box thinking (thats what made you successful). Lastly if you let the LS go into that dark night forever then you better carry its traits over to the next generation of Lincolns. If you want to know what they are then ask your LS enthusiast. There are a number of us out here. P.S. When you stop making the current body style of LS send me the last one of the assembly line. It will always be a classic in my mind. Any color but gray. P.S.S Haven't heard the THX but still love the Alpine audiophile system from 5 years ago.
Russ One time owner of a '00 V8 Sport Not an autophile, just an average american
Spending a Billion dollars. It will take many years for caddy to recoup their investment. The jury is still out as to whether they can keep up the sales and profits after the newness wears off and they cut advertising back to normal levels. So far it's working. I don't think Ford is able or prepared to make that kind of investment in Lincoln or anywhere else.
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Gunnersmate Congratulations!!! My LS is still in the shop. They received the flight computer on Tuesday this week and had to special program it and install it. Now they are driving the LS in order to make the shutdown happen. I have a loaner car so they can keep driving and testing for a while. I have not told them about your case and the fuel pumps just yet.
I have to say I do miss the LS and the handling. The loaner Taurus is OK as transportation, but I have been spoiled by the LS handling and power forever. If they stop making it I guess most of us LS lovers will have to jump to Jag-Stype or BMW camp. I do agree with Luxman about the CTS. It may be a great handling car, but it is very unattractive looking machine! Let us hope they keep the LS for a while.....and the Maurauder marketing team away from the LS team!:-)
Car stalled again this AM! I am having it towed back up to Tampa because i was nearly ran over twice this morning both times by very large and fast moving vehicles. If you don't have AAA Plus and you own a 00 LS I suggest you get it soon.
I spoke with the Tech and the SA and they communicated to me that they will fix it and the Tech said his time would come at no charge and I may not incur additional hardware costs. I indicated to them that I am not concerned with what I just paid only that I don't get hit with another large 1000 dollar repair bill.
So I still have some faith in this shop and I told them no rush just fix it; I have another car at my disposal. I also told the tech i love this car to death but am not prepared to die in it .
So for the moment the LS GRIN 2000 has been uninstalled due to an ineffective repair. Keep me posted Martin3. You and I are shipmates on the USS Never Sail. fair winds and following seas.
>>>What is Cadillac doing that Lincoln hasn't been? Spending a Billion dollars. It will take many years for caddy to recoup their investment.
More like $4 billion. And now the General is about to drop $3 billion on Buick with a similar formula used by Cadillac. It boggles the mind to imagine what the ever-cautious folks at Toyota could do to the American market should they decide to open the cash flood gates to which they hold the key.
As I reacll many of you are very knowledgeable in auto detailing, and I would like to draw upon your knowledge. My wife has a new Toyota Solara convertible, and I need to know how to safely care for the black convertible top.
I bought an engine air filter, a fuel filter, six oil filters, a cabin air filter & a PCV valve from these guys and saved about $26, plus which it was all delivered to my front door. The shipping was $7.99, but the tax I would have paid in-state would have been around $10. Turns out the guy is based in Memphis, so FedEx was a piece of cake, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ran the operation out of his basement, given how my tracking number questions were handled.
Putting it all in wasn't bad at all. I'd done engine air & oil filters before, but the cabin air filter was a first. Not bad, but it'll go better next time -- the learning curve is a wonderful thing. The only issues with the fuel filter were the proprietary fasteners used to hold the inner fender in place and the proprietary widgets used to hold the fuel lines in place. I ended up going to a local dealer to get replacements for both. Not a big deal.
One of the more interesting features of all this was learning how many of the various fasteners had been left off by a dealer during my hydraulic cooling fan travails I outlined (whined about, actually) last September. This, by the way, is why I still do everything I can myself. I want ALL the fasteners replaced. I guess this makes me a difficult customer.
Bottom line: buy online and learn to take care of your LS.
Sadly, the average luxury car owner only lifts the hood when the engine: A.Won't start or B.Quits As a consequence, most techs know that grandpa won't complain as long as most of the vehicle components aren't dragging on the ground. Besides, leaving out half the fasteners helps the guy beat the book labor time which often translates into more $$$ for the tech.
Depends on which company is repairing the vehicle. If it's Ford's techs, they get paid one flat rate for the work involved. Each job has it's calculated time it should take for a Ford tech to complete the task. If the computer states it's a 2 hour job, and it takes them 8 hours... They only get paid for those 2 hours, nothing more... The dealership then absorbs the time difference and pretty much losses out.
According to Automotive News, 2 new Lincolns to be based on Fords. LS, Town Car replacements would be built in Atlanta. Ford Motor Co. is developing two sedans to freshen the tired Lincoln lineup, say suppliers familiar with the company's plans. The new Lincolns will be based on the platform that underpins the Ford Five Hundred sedan and Freestyle sport wagon, which will debut this summer.
... I really do, but, unless a miracle occurs, I think it's about the end of the line for me and Ford/Lincoln. Why? ONE stinking issue with my LS that they absolutely refuse to do anything about. It's not a BIG issue, but it's a major annoyance and they have been giving me the runaround for a couple of years on this and they (when I say they, I am referring to one Dan Donleavy, Ford regional engineer for Northern California and he is they because there is NO appealing his judgement, therefore he IS Ford AFAIC) have issued their final position on my issue. To wit:
"It is normal for my HVAC system to blow 110 degree air from the center stack while simultaneously blowing 68 degree air from the defroster and demister."
I dunno how serious this sounds to anyone, but picture driving along in your luxury automobile while the "Auto" HVAC system attempts to warm up the car and keep it warm by blowing hot air on one side of you, and cold air on the other (and some straight on as the defrost air can be felt on my face.) The Ford engineer sat in my car and verified this condition and expressed amazement at the disparate temperatures and left to figure out how to fix it. Well that was then, this is now. Now it's NORMAL. So, if this is normal - how many of you reading this need to bring your LS in to have your HVACs fixed? Cause if they actually blow warm air (or no air) from defrost/demist under these conditions, well that must be ABNORMAL by implication.
My dealer has (or says he has) gone to bat for me by repeating my request for a SPEC or some WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION that says this is normal, or at least gives a range of acceptable air temps out the vents under differing conditions. As an engineer myself i am absolutely sure such a document has to exist IF Ford bothered to test this system properly. The regional engineer claims no such documentation exists. So in that case, ANYTHING can be deemed NORMAL I guess!
So. Folks who've followed my history with the LS will know that, while I haven't been a blind Lincoln sychophant, I have been basically very happy with my LS (bought new in Feb 2001) and with Lincoln in general. I have posted usually in support of same. Now? I am sitting with $85,000 worth of Lincoln iron in my garage (bought a Nav at xmas time) and am being treated like a total [non-permissible content removed] and a fool by their "Customer Service" and Lincoln Commitment" departments. So, unless a miracle occurs, 'To h_ll with them.'
The new D & E sedans will obviously be FWD, or at best AWD then? While I like the S-80, and I guess by association, the platform it is built on, it seems kind of backwards to be moving Lincoln to FWD cars, when Chrysler & Cadillac are going (with accolades) to RWD for handling and performance reasons. And, should I want to go back to a sedan, FWD was the main reason I was resisting an S-80, which I otherwise like a great deal. What's the thinking here, ANT? Sounds like Bill or Hazel or somebody is just desperately trying to get a couple of cars out there with Lincoln on them, and this was the best way to do that. But they won't be too special, will they?
George: I've heard Aviator owners complain about the same phenomenon, with the same result. Does your Navigator do it? I've not had a Ford do this yet, my Navigator and both my 02 and 04 Mountaineers have had extraordinary HVAC performance.
It may actually be NORMAL, but if so, it sounds like a bad idea to me. I would be unhappy as well.
On my 99 Navigator, which had superior HVAC IMO, it did have a quirk that I bugged the dealer about for about a year. The External Temp readout didn't seem to work in town, but worked fine on the highway. I thought it was malfunctioning, but the dealer kept telling me it was normal. Finally, I persisted so much, the service manager printed out a description of the operation of the function for me, which had the operating specs on it. They weren't lying. Some engineering genius had designed the system to only change a readout when the car had been traveling over 40 MPH for 4 minutes or longer, so in stop & go traffic, your readout would likely never change. It was NORMAL, in other words, but useless.
Might be normal? Does your home heater blow hot in one room, cold in another? :>)
Seriously though, I have heard a bit about the Aviator problem as well. In fact, when I bought the Nav, my first desire was the Aviator. I brought the family and we drove it. I was disappointed - not about the handling or looks or power, but it was just too small for the family (of 5) the way I wanted to use it, the driver's seat just did not mesh with me - I couldn't quite get comfortable AND - the HVAC system acted like my LS. I specifically checked that and that would have put me off the Aviator by itself.
Then, I test drove the Nav. I expected a clunky elephantine rig swinging and swerving etc. Was I surprised. The power is fine, the handling superb, there's plenty of room for the family AND - the HVAC system does NOT work the way my LS does. It works correctly. Hot air everywhere when necessary. I checked that too during the test drive.
BTW, my 1993 Mark 8 w/ auto HVAC worked like the Navigator, as do my 1997 Dodge van, my 1986 Jeep Cherokee, my 1994 Toyota P/U in fact ALL the vehicles I've ever owned have blown either hot/warm air or cold air, never both simultaneously.
It boggles my mind that anyone could think the way my LS HVAC works is NORMAL.
"The new D & E sedans will obviously be FWD, or at best AWD then?"
It'll be AWD...Notice how more automaker's are moving to AWD. Caddy STS, G35, Next Acura RL, etc. As I mentioned months ago, it was between the D3 platform, or the Panther platform (TC, GM, CV). Obviously they made a decision to go with a modern unibody, over the BOF of the Panther's.
Details are still being planned out, it's not as bad as people expect it to be.
First off they do not appear on the immediate horizon. Production of one model won't be until 2007-2008 the second being 2008-2009 The following link contains more details:
heyjewel, I haven't had exactly same problem, but somewhat similar recently on my 00. While trying to cool, was blowing extremely hot air out driver window & center dash vents while blowing cold air out same vents on passenger side. So hot I couldn't drive it with fan on. Don't know about defroster vents. Anyway, dealer replace a "diverter valve" (?) that fixed it. Also said a computer chip might be needed to be changed, but wasn't.
I don't have exact name for part in my head. Will try to find dealer receipt & description 2nite at home.
I hadn't heard of this problem. Thanks for posting. I have heard of 'diverter' or other valves being replaced. I *assume* that some diagnostic code was returned that pointed the tech to the valve. Mine returns no diag codes, or so they tell me.
akirby: You've been around since the beginning. What say you about my problem? Does your LS work 'normally'?
I had the valve replaced last year. What happens is the valve fails on one half of the dual climate control causing one entire side (driver or passenger) to blow hot air while the other blows cold (may occur in reverse, too). In other words on the center console the left vent blows hot and the right one blows cold. Very common problem but does not sound like the problem you're having George.
I swear it is like trying to move a moutain of wrongness with them 99% of the time. I love my car despite all the problems I have had but enough nails have been hammered in the ol' pine box now to ensure I shall not return.
I just dropped 1000 dollars on a repair, for stalling, that was supposed to keep me safe in traffic. I had absolute faith in their judgemnet of the repair. So much that I choose to hit the road with it again on to find myself in two near death accidents due to stalling in city traffic.
The fact that safety isn't a concern should be a clear enough indicator that it isn't going to get better.
I have a wife and two kids and I can't be playing chicken with SUV's and large buses every morning. It is appearent that no one at the helm gives two cents about customer satisfaction even if you are a repeat customer.
The die hasn't been cast on my next purchase yet but I can assure you that it will not be, nor ever be, a licoln. Nothing or no one is perfect but an attempt can attempt to be and they are making any attempts.
The avis commercial comes to mind... the one where they say what if we only tried hard and the cut over to some schmoe providing very poor service then they cut back to pitching that is why they try hardER. Could someone at lincoln just try harder?
Gunnersmate, I am picking up my car all fixed tomorrow from my dealer after I have captured for them a shutdown and a no-start condition into their Rotunda-VDR (Vehicle-data-recorder) on loan. As luck would have it the two problems were day appart. I think the best will be that your deler contacts my dealer service department to get the inside scoop (probably confidential info. ) on the fix. I will let you know more tomorrow. Stay tuned!
For most rear window regulators failing simultaneously: 2. 90F & sunny, so when approaching car I held down FOB to open all windows for cool off before starting. Front windows & moon roof opened immediately. Rears hesitated, particularly driver side one, & then both windows fell down! Clap-trapping around inside when tried to close at door. Neither had been opened 50X in 4-3/4 years of owning 00. Had passenger rear fail at about one year.
Best suggestion is to never open rears. Guess I'd forgotten.
My 4th quality issue in 2 months at 57K. Getting real old. Love the drive, but this is ridiculous
Actually, failing to use the windows is what causes them to fail. Frequent use actually prevents failure. In hot weather, the glass sticks to the seal putting pressure on the regulator and eventually the regulator fails. The new ones are fine and once fixed should not reoccur. Normal testing procedures don't cover this type of failure.
I have the problem with hot air coming out of some vents and cold in the others. The dealer told me it was the blower valve getting stuck; is that the same as the diverter? they quoted me $700 - sound right?
Awesome! Thanks for the information. I have yet to hear one word from them since I left my LS Grin with them last week. I would like to exchange contact information with you at some point if possible. Best wishes.
Greta mountain roads my rental was a Taurus so i didn't have any fun but i did see many Lincoln LS's both V6 and V8.
Most of them sailed right by me on the twisty roads of West Virginia. Ahhh memories... although mine are not on mountain roads but I do have some great ramps on I75 and I4. Man I would had rented an LS but I got caught up in an airline debacle up in Newark.
If you treasure your sanity you will never fly in, around or through Newark. Make every effort to go another way. That is all I am going to say.
Well here is the info on "shutdown fix". As I have mentioned earlier. Second day after the shutdown, I was to deliver the car to have the DVR-data dump, but the car would crank but (no fuel or spark like condition again)no ignition out of the garage. Took out my multimeter, opened the trunk fuse box and started doing checks, but all looked OK. I tried rocking the back and front of the vehicle like I did last time but still no start. So I pulled out the fuel pump relay and plugged it back in. Well the car started right away. At this point by my own diagnostics I was convinced that Fuse F204, IFS switch and P63-Fuel Pump relay and possibly the REM were all components under suspicion including the flip-over switch that is inside the fuel pump in the tank and maybe all the cable wiring connectors between all those components.
Here is what the mechanic did based on the DVR data. replaced parts U7Z*12A650*EHA Processor ASY-ENG Electr. Cntrl.(PCM) 2w4Z14A411*CA Wiring assy Connector xw4Z*9F715*BA VLV ASY-Throt Air Bypass 12650D7 - PCM relay Qty.2 F5TZ*14N089*B Rly.Asy-mulpl Func Plg in
Also TSB 03.07.03 and TSB 01.16.04 were executed. Here is quote from my invoice "The DVR info observed lean condition during shutdown IAC command 50%spec 50% at 30 MPH. Fuel trim incresed as well just before the stall. DTC P1237 in memory, however, fuel rail pressure never went above 40% when driving and never below when cranking."
Solution: replace PCM, IAC and Harness per TSB 03.07.03. Installed jumper per TSB 01.16.04. Inspected wiring and fuel pump connectors and verified fuel panel terminals.
So the good news is that the car runs like new again, but I should not get my confidence back-up just yet until I drive it for few weeks with no shutdown!!!
I will provide updates if all the above did the fix. In any case having a bunch a spare relays (Fuell Pump and PCM)in the glove box could be the LS-medical kit or temporary fix that might save money on towing charges!
Of course one could always switch similar relays in the fuse box and never have new spares. With ~24 relays in the three fuse boxes in the vehicle I say having some spares of similar types might be a very good thing!! Relay contact pitting under DC operation and contact resistance changes are all know to be a problem with automotive mechanical and non solid state relays. Just my 2cents worth!
Now I can't wait to get my LS grin back ON.....:-)
Comments
Ironically I just got a special in the mail on new 2004 LS with $3500 in rebates! Well at this time, I would not even think about purchasing another one until this shutdown issue is truly resolved! If the issue does not get resolved this will be my last Ford product purchased. BTW-The June 28 issue of Fortune has a great article on Ford and their shrinking share of the market (see graph on page 70). The new Bill F. Jr. strategy is working..."yes they are loosing market share fast...." LM has 18% share now and 10 year's ago they were 25.4%!
Possibly because the newer vehicle meets tighter emission standards?
- Ray
Glad for clean(er) air . . .
>> question: if you take your car in to be fixed and they say they fixed it and you get off the lot and the problem comes back up like a heavy dose of hot sauce are they responsible for the next fix under the 12 month 12k mile warranty? After all they said the problem is corrected and you paid in good faith.
I thought that I would have recvd a phone call from them yesterday either confirming of denying that the fuel pump(s) are bad. I called about 230 yesterday and have yet to have my call returned. So i am guessing that the fuel pump(s) are not the issue. I know tha as soon as i find the solution to a problem in my line of work I jump right up and sing a song about it, LOL.
I wonder if these folks that are working on our cars have access to Lincoln engineers for tech support if they can't nail it down. Like you I would love to trade out of this albatross but ethically I can't dump this on some unsuspecting dealer.
good luck i hope we both get a fix soon.
I hope they can find it. A "no problem found" diagnosis is the worst.
I certainly apperciate your offering of hope no one wants this fixed more than I do. And being that 2.5 days have passed since they spoke with me it isn't looking good is it?
You know, this could be as simple as a bad ground to the frame somewhere.....
Hhas duplicated the problem multiple times with various diag tools and the most telling is the fule line pressure at the engine. It seems that it dips to about 10psi during these episodes and has peaks upwards to 65psi. So it looks like I am about to be the proud owner of two new fule pumps, 1 new fuel filter and they are going to clean the lines for around 900 dollars.
I can't see what good line cleaning can have on the overall health of the fuel system. I don't have a jealous wife or girl friend that would poor sugar down my tank. You can confirm my satisfaction rating with Mrs. GunnerMate if you like; I bet it is a sound 100%.
They don't have the pumps in stock so i don't expect that work will begin till tuesday, so i may have my LS Grin back on by Thursday. I hope!
Happy Independence day to you all. Travel well and drive safely.
I just recently became aware of the LS. I wonder why Lincoln never advertised this car. They deserve praise for developing it but deserve criticism for neglecting to promote it.
http://www.autotradezone.com/search_autos.aspx
Ok can I say I got goose bumps and nearly teared up from all the joy i got from hanging this tight on ramp to I-75S although it could have just been something in my eye and the AC was set to 60.
*Martin3* any word on what caused your stall problem(s)
I bought an LS in OCT. 99 and have fallen in love with a car for the first time in my life. Now I am worried about the fate of the LS. The car rags haven't given the LS the credit it deserves. Nor has Lincoln promoted this car as they should have. I understand a lack of funds helped hinder the ability to display this car more prominently. I understand as well that the people at Lincoln have a great car but little clue on how to market it. What I don't understand is how an ugly car like the Caddy CTS can produce so many different offsprings in a short period of time. WTF! Did caddy just have better planners in their think tank and marketing department (they sure didn't have them in the styling department of the CTS). And all the stupid car rags have done for the past 4+ years is complain about the LS's transmission! People should not speak there opinion unless they have had significant experience with a car or given situation. Sure I had to have my PCM reflashed but that is nothing compared to the umpteen number of problems I have heard from Benz, BMW and Lexus owners in person and in online forums. Sometimes I just want to preach the gospel of this car. Tell people about the exhilaration of driving in 2nd & 3rd gear on Huffaker Road( twist and turn city)! The astonishment of finding out what kind of power is left in reserve for passing. The feeling of getting out of a car without your back hurting ( i have a bad back) after an 8 hour drive to the pan handle of Florida. The ability to come to a complete stop, in a straight line, with out nose diving. The only gripes I had was that I needed more storage space for maps,paperwork,cd's and better cup holders than us first model year buyers received. Now I will get off my soap box.
The new Zephyr might be a winner. The Continental concept design looks like a very sweet car. Any new LS body style news or is this car's future in Limbo?
Now a message to Lincoln.
I am a month from being 30 years old. I believe I am in one of your most targeted demographics (young professional who enjoys a quality car). I am a nerd by trade (database admin) but one of the things it has taught me is to be prepared. Best case worst case scenarios. Plan...it is easier and more cost effective to fix in the planning stage than once something goes wrong in the real world. Build on success but remeber your out of the box thinking (thats what made you successful). Lastly if you let the LS go into that dark night forever then you better carry its traits over to the next generation of Lincolns. If you want to know what they are then ask your LS enthusiast. There are a number of us out here.
P.S.
When you stop making the current body style of LS send me the last one of the assembly line. It will always be a classic in my mind. Any color but gray.
P.S.S
Haven't heard the THX but still love the Alpine audiophile system from 5 years ago.
Russ
One time owner of a '00 V8 Sport
Not an autophile, just an average american
Spending a Billion dollars. It will take many years for caddy to recoup their investment. The jury is still out as to whether they can keep up the sales and profits after the newness wears off and they cut advertising back to normal levels. So far it's working. I don't think Ford is able or prepared to make that kind of investment in Lincoln or anywhere else.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I have to say I do miss the LS and the handling. The loaner Taurus is OK as transportation, but I have been spoiled by the LS handling and power forever. If they stop making it I guess most of us LS lovers will have to jump to Jag-Stype or BMW camp. I do agree with Luxman about the CTS. It may be a great handling car, but it is very unattractive looking machine! Let us hope they keep the LS for a while.....and the Maurauder marketing team away from the LS team!:-)
I spoke with the Tech and the SA and they communicated to me that they will fix it and the Tech said his time would come at no charge and I may not incur additional hardware costs. I indicated to them that I am not concerned with what I just paid only that I don't get hit with another large 1000 dollar repair bill.
So I still have some faith in this shop and I told them no rush just fix it; I have another car at my disposal. I also told the tech i love this car to death but am not prepared to die in it
So for the moment the LS GRIN 2000 has been uninstalled due to an ineffective repair. Keep me posted Martin3. You and I are shipmates on the USS Never Sail. fair winds and following seas.
More like $4 billion. And now the General is about to drop $3 billion on Buick with a similar formula used by Cadillac. It boggles the mind to imagine what the ever-cautious folks at Toyota could do to the American market should they decide to open the cash flood gates to which they hold the key.
Thanks in advance,
Bob
2001 LSV8 non-sport
I bought an engine air filter, a fuel filter, six oil filters, a cabin air filter & a PCV valve from these guys and saved about $26, plus which it was all delivered to my front door. The shipping was $7.99, but the tax I would have paid in-state would have been around $10. Turns out the guy is based in Memphis, so FedEx was a piece of cake, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ran the operation out of his basement, given how my tracking number questions were handled.
Putting it all in wasn't bad at all. I'd done engine air & oil filters before, but the cabin air filter was a first. Not bad, but it'll go better next time -- the learning curve is a wonderful thing. The only issues with the fuel filter were the proprietary fasteners used to hold the inner fender in place and the proprietary widgets used to hold the fuel lines in place. I ended up going to a local dealer to get replacements for both. Not a big deal.
One of the more interesting features of all this was learning how many of the various fasteners had been left off by a dealer during my hydraulic cooling fan travails I outlined (whined about, actually) last September. This, by the way, is why I still do everything I can myself. I want ALL the fasteners replaced. I guess this makes me a difficult customer.
Bottom line: buy online and learn to take care of your LS.
Thanks, Allen.
A.Won't start or
B.Quits
As a consequence, most techs know that grandpa won't complain as long as most of the vehicle components aren't dragging on the ground. Besides, leaving out half the fasteners helps the guy beat the book labor time which often translates into more $$$ for the tech.
LS, Town Car replacements would be built in Atlanta.
Ford Motor Co. is developing two sedans to freshen the tired Lincoln lineup, say suppliers familiar with the company's plans. The new Lincolns will be based on the platform that underpins the Ford Five Hundred sedan and Freestyle sport wagon, which will debut this summer.
Oh, the extra weight and complexity (not to mention the stupid transverse engine) of AWD holds absolutely NO appeal to me!
"It is normal for my HVAC system to blow 110 degree air from the center stack while simultaneously blowing 68 degree air from the defroster and demister."
I dunno how serious this sounds to anyone, but picture driving along in your luxury automobile while the "Auto" HVAC system attempts to warm up the car and keep it warm by blowing hot air on one side of you, and cold air on the other (and some straight on as the defrost air can be felt on my face.) The Ford engineer sat in my car and verified this condition and expressed amazement at the disparate temperatures and left to figure out how to fix it. Well that was then, this is now. Now it's NORMAL. So, if this is normal - how many of you reading this need to bring your LS in to have your HVACs fixed? Cause if they actually blow warm air (or no air) from defrost/demist under these conditions, well that must be ABNORMAL by implication.
My dealer has (or says he has) gone to bat for me by repeating my request for a SPEC or some WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION that says this is normal, or at least gives a range of acceptable air temps out the vents under differing conditions. As an engineer myself i am absolutely sure such a document has to exist IF Ford bothered to test this system properly. The regional engineer claims no such documentation exists. So in that case, ANYTHING can be deemed NORMAL I guess!
So. Folks who've followed my history with the LS will know that, while I haven't been a blind Lincoln sychophant, I have been basically very happy with my LS (bought new in Feb 2001) and with Lincoln in general. I have posted usually in support of same. Now? I am sitting with $85,000 worth of Lincoln iron in my garage (bought a Nav at xmas time) and am being treated like a total [non-permissible content removed] and a fool by their "Customer Service" and Lincoln Commitment" departments. So, unless a miracle occurs, 'To h_ll with them.'
George
It may actually be NORMAL, but if so, it sounds like a bad idea to me. I would be unhappy as well.
On my 99 Navigator, which had superior HVAC IMO, it did have a quirk that I bugged the dealer about for about a year. The External Temp readout didn't seem to work in town, but worked fine on the highway. I thought it was malfunctioning, but the dealer kept telling me it was normal. Finally, I persisted so much, the service manager printed out a description of the operation of the function for me, which had the operating specs on it. They weren't lying. Some engineering genius had designed the system to only change a readout when the car had been traveling over 40 MPH for 4 minutes or longer, so in stop & go traffic, your readout would likely never change. It was NORMAL, in other words, but useless.
I'm sure that doesn't help. I'm sorry.
Might be normal? Does your home heater blow hot in one room, cold in another? :>)
Seriously though, I have heard a bit about the Aviator problem as well. In fact, when I bought the Nav, my first desire was the Aviator. I brought the family and we drove it. I was disappointed - not about the handling or looks or power, but it was just too small for the family (of 5) the way I wanted to use it, the driver's seat just did not mesh with me - I couldn't quite get comfortable AND - the HVAC system acted like my LS. I specifically checked that and that would have put me off the Aviator by itself.
Then, I test drove the Nav. I expected a clunky elephantine rig swinging and swerving etc. Was I surprised. The power is fine, the handling superb, there's plenty of room for the family AND - the HVAC system does NOT work the way my LS does. It works correctly. Hot air everywhere when necessary. I checked that too during the test drive.
BTW, my 1993 Mark 8 w/ auto HVAC worked like the Navigator, as do my 1997 Dodge van, my 1986 Jeep Cherokee, my 1994 Toyota P/U in fact ALL the vehicles I've ever owned have blown either hot/warm air or cold air, never both simultaneously.
It boggles my mind that anyone could think the way my LS HVAC works is NORMAL.
It'll be AWD...Notice how more automaker's are moving to AWD. Caddy STS, G35, Next Acura RL, etc. As I mentioned months ago, it was between the D3 platform, or the Panther platform (TC, GM, CV). Obviously they made a decision to go with a modern unibody, over the BOF of the Panther's.
Details are still being planned out, it's not as bad as people expect it to be.
The following link contains more details:
http://autoweek.com/cat_print.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=- - carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=06803524&76220785- - 2
I don't have exact name for part in my head. Will try to find dealer receipt & description 2nite at home.
akirby: You've been around since the beginning. What say you about my problem? Does your LS work 'normally'?
I just dropped 1000 dollars on a repair, for stalling, that was supposed to keep me safe in traffic. I had absolute faith in their judgemnet of the repair. So much that I choose to hit the road with it again on to find myself in two near death accidents due to stalling in city traffic.
The fact that safety isn't a concern should be a clear enough indicator that it isn't going to get better.
I have a wife and two kids and I can't be playing chicken with SUV's and large buses every morning. It is appearent that no one at the helm gives two cents about customer satisfaction even if you are a repeat customer.
The die hasn't been cast on my next purchase yet but I can assure you that it will not be, nor ever be, a licoln. Nothing or no one is perfect but an attempt can attempt to be and they are making any attempts.
The avis commercial comes to mind... the one where they say what if we only tried hard and the cut over to some schmoe providing very poor service then they cut back to pitching that is why they try hardER. Could someone at lincoln just try harder?
Sorry for the run on. Again good luck.
I am picking up my car all fixed tomorrow from my dealer after I have captured for them a shutdown and a no-start condition into their Rotunda-VDR (Vehicle-data-recorder) on loan. As luck would have it the two problems were day appart. I think the best will be that your deler contacts my dealer service department to get the inside scoop (probably confidential info. ) on the fix. I will let you know more tomorrow. Stay tuned!
Best suggestion is to never open rears. Guess I'd forgotten.
My 4th quality issue in 2 months at 57K. Getting real old. Love the drive, but this is ridiculous
If you decide to do it yourself i would be happy to help in any way possible.
Most of them sailed right by me on the twisty roads of West Virginia. Ahhh memories... although mine are not on mountain roads but I do have some great ramps on I75 and I4. Man I would had rented an LS but I got caught up in an airline debacle up in Newark.
If you treasure your sanity you will never fly in, around or through Newark. Make every effort to go another way. That is all I am going to say.
Here is what the mechanic did based on the DVR data.
replaced parts
U7Z*12A650*EHA Processor ASY-ENG Electr. Cntrl.(PCM)
2w4Z14A411*CA Wiring assy Connector
xw4Z*9F715*BA VLV ASY-Throt Air Bypass
12650D7 - PCM relay
Qty.2 F5TZ*14N089*B Rly.Asy-mulpl Func Plg in
Also TSB 03.07.03 and TSB 01.16.04 were executed.
Here is quote from my invoice
"The DVR info observed lean condition during shutdown IAC command 50%spec 50% at 30 MPH. Fuel trim incresed as well just before the stall. DTC P1237 in memory, however, fuel rail pressure never went above 40% when driving and never below when cranking."
Solution: replace PCM, IAC and Harness per TSB 03.07.03. Installed jumper per TSB 01.16.04. Inspected wiring and fuel pump connectors and verified fuel panel terminals.
So the good news is that the car runs like new again, but I should not get my confidence back-up just yet until I drive it for few weeks with no shutdown!!!
I will provide updates if all the above did the fix. In any case having a bunch a spare relays (Fuell Pump and PCM)in the glove box could be the LS-medical kit or temporary fix that might save money on towing charges!
Of course one could always switch similar relays in the fuse box and never have new spares. With ~24 relays in the three fuse boxes in the vehicle I say having some spares of similar types might be a very good thing!! Relay contact pitting under DC operation and contact resistance changes are all know to be a problem with automotive mechanical and non solid state relays. Just my 2cents worth!
Now I can't wait to get my LS grin back ON.....:-)