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Ironically I just got a special in the mail on new 2004 LS with $3500 in rebates! Well at this time, I would not even think about purchasing another one until this shutdown issue is truly resolved! If the issue does not get resolved this will be my last Ford product purchased. BTW-The June 28 issue of Fortune has a great article on Ford and their shrinking share of the market (see graph on page 70). The new Bill F. Jr. strategy is working..."yes they are loosing market share fast...." LM has 18% share now and 10 year's ago they were 25.4%!
Possibly because the newer vehicle meets tighter emission standards?
- Ray
Glad for clean(er) air . . .
>> question: if you take your car in to be fixed and they say they fixed it and you get off the lot and the problem comes back up like a heavy dose of hot sauce are they responsible for the next fix under the 12 month 12k mile warranty? After all they said the problem is corrected and you paid in good faith.
I thought that I would have recvd a phone call from them yesterday either confirming of denying that the fuel pump(s) are bad. I called about 230 yesterday and have yet to have my call returned. So i am guessing that the fuel pump(s) are not the issue. I know tha as soon as i find the solution to a problem in my line of work I jump right up and sing a song about it, LOL.
I wonder if these folks that are working on our cars have access to Lincoln engineers for tech support if they can't nail it down. Like you I would love to trade out of this albatross but ethically I can't dump this on some unsuspecting dealer.
good luck i hope we both get a fix soon.
I hope they can find it. A "no problem found" diagnosis is the worst.
I certainly apperciate your offering of hope no one wants this fixed more than I do. And being that 2.5 days have passed since they spoke with me it isn't looking good is it?
You know, this could be as simple as a bad ground to the frame somewhere.....
Hhas duplicated the problem multiple times with various diag tools and the most telling is the fule line pressure at the engine. It seems that it dips to about 10psi during these episodes and has peaks upwards to 65psi. So it looks like I am about to be the proud owner of two new fule pumps, 1 new fuel filter and they are going to clean the lines for around 900 dollars.
I can't see what good line cleaning can have on the overall health of the fuel system. I don't have a jealous wife or girl friend that would poor sugar down my tank. You can confirm my satisfaction rating with Mrs. GunnerMate if you like; I bet it is a sound 100%.
They don't have the pumps in stock so i don't expect that work will begin till tuesday, so i may have my LS Grin back on by Thursday. I hope!
Happy Independence day to you all. Travel well and drive safely.
I just recently became aware of the LS. I wonder why Lincoln never advertised this car. They deserve praise for developing it but deserve criticism for neglecting to promote it.
http://www.autotradezone.com/search_autos.aspx
Ok can I say I got goose bumps and nearly teared up from all the joy i got from hanging this tight on ramp to I-75S although it could have just been something in my eye and the AC was set to 60.
*Martin3* any word on what caused your stall problem(s)
I bought an LS in OCT. 99 and have fallen in love with a car for the first time in my life. Now I am worried about the fate of the LS. The car rags haven't given the LS the credit it deserves. Nor has Lincoln promoted this car as they should have. I understand a lack of funds helped hinder the ability to display this car more prominently. I understand as well that the people at Lincoln have a great car but little clue on how to market it. What I don't understand is how an ugly car like the Caddy CTS can produce so many different offsprings in a short period of time. WTF! Did caddy just have better planners in their think tank and marketing department (they sure didn't have them in the styling department of the CTS). And all the stupid car rags have done for the past 4+ years is complain about the LS's transmission! People should not speak there opinion unless they have had significant experience with a car or given situation. Sure I had to have my PCM reflashed but that is nothing compared to the umpteen number of problems I have heard from Benz, BMW and Lexus owners in person and in online forums. Sometimes I just want to preach the gospel of this car. Tell people about the exhilaration of driving in 2nd & 3rd gear on Huffaker Road( twist and turn city)! The astonishment of finding out what kind of power is left in reserve for passing. The feeling of getting out of a car without your back hurting ( i have a bad back) after an 8 hour drive to the pan handle of Florida. The ability to come to a complete stop, in a straight line, with out nose diving. The only gripes I had was that I needed more storage space for maps,paperwork,cd's and better cup holders than us first model year buyers received. Now I will get off my soap box.
The new Zephyr might be a winner. The Continental concept design looks like a very sweet car. Any new LS body style news or is this car's future in Limbo?
Now a message to Lincoln.
I am a month from being 30 years old. I believe I am in one of your most targeted demographics (young professional who enjoys a quality car). I am a nerd by trade (database admin) but one of the things it has taught me is to be prepared. Best case worst case scenarios. Plan...it is easier and more cost effective to fix in the planning stage than once something goes wrong in the real world. Build on success but remeber your out of the box thinking (thats what made you successful). Lastly if you let the LS go into that dark night forever then you better carry its traits over to the next generation of Lincolns. If you want to know what they are then ask your LS enthusiast. There are a number of us out here.
P.S.
When you stop making the current body style of LS send me the last one of the assembly line. It will always be a classic in my mind. Any color but gray.
P.S.S
Haven't heard the THX but still love the Alpine audiophile system from 5 years ago.
Russ
One time owner of a '00 V8 Sport
Not an autophile, just an average american
Spending a Billion dollars. It will take many years for caddy to recoup their investment. The jury is still out as to whether they can keep up the sales and profits after the newness wears off and they cut advertising back to normal levels. So far it's working. I don't think Ford is able or prepared to make that kind of investment in Lincoln or anywhere else.
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I have to say I do miss the LS and the handling. The loaner Taurus is OK as transportation, but I have been spoiled by the LS handling and power forever. If they stop making it I guess most of us LS lovers will have to jump to Jag-Stype or BMW camp. I do agree with Luxman about the CTS. It may be a great handling car, but it is very unattractive looking machine! Let us hope they keep the LS for a while.....and the Maurauder marketing team away from the LS team!:-)
I spoke with the Tech and the SA and they communicated to me that they will fix it and the Tech said his time would come at no charge and I may not incur additional hardware costs. I indicated to them that I am not concerned with what I just paid only that I don't get hit with another large 1000 dollar repair bill.
So I still have some faith in this shop and I told them no rush just fix it; I have another car at my disposal. I also told the tech i love this car to death but am not prepared to die in it
So for the moment the LS GRIN 2000 has been uninstalled due to an ineffective repair. Keep me posted Martin3. You and I are shipmates on the USS Never Sail. fair winds and following seas.
More like $4 billion. And now the General is about to drop $3 billion on Buick with a similar formula used by Cadillac. It boggles the mind to imagine what the ever-cautious folks at Toyota could do to the American market should they decide to open the cash flood gates to which they hold the key.
Thanks in advance,
Bob
2001 LSV8 non-sport
I bought an engine air filter, a fuel filter, six oil filters, a cabin air filter & a PCV valve from these guys and saved about $26, plus which it was all delivered to my front door. The shipping was $7.99, but the tax I would have paid in-state would have been around $10. Turns out the guy is based in Memphis, so FedEx was a piece of cake, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ran the operation out of his basement, given how my tracking number questions were handled.
Putting it all in wasn't bad at all. I'd done engine air & oil filters before, but the cabin air filter was a first. Not bad, but it'll go better next time -- the learning curve is a wonderful thing. The only issues with the fuel filter were the proprietary fasteners used to hold the inner fender in place and the proprietary widgets used to hold the fuel lines in place. I ended up going to a local dealer to get replacements for both. Not a big deal.
One of the more interesting features of all this was learning how many of the various fasteners had been left off by a dealer during my hydraulic cooling fan travails I outlined (whined about, actually) last September. This, by the way, is why I still do everything I can myself. I want ALL the fasteners replaced. I guess this makes me a difficult customer.
Bottom line: buy online and learn to take care of your LS.
Thanks, Allen.
A.Won't start or
B.Quits
As a consequence, most techs know that grandpa won't complain as long as most of the vehicle components aren't dragging on the ground. Besides, leaving out half the fasteners helps the guy beat the book labor time which often translates into more $$$ for the tech.
LS, Town Car replacements would be built in Atlanta.
Ford Motor Co. is developing two sedans to freshen the tired Lincoln lineup, say suppliers familiar with the company's plans. The new Lincolns will be based on the platform that underpins the Ford Five Hundred sedan and Freestyle sport wagon, which will debut this summer.
Oh, the extra weight and complexity (not to mention the stupid transverse engine) of AWD holds absolutely NO appeal to me!
"It is normal for my HVAC system to blow 110 degree air from the center stack while simultaneously blowing 68 degree air from the defroster and demister."
I dunno how serious this sounds to anyone, but picture driving along in your luxury automobile while the "Auto" HVAC system attempts to warm up the car and keep it warm by blowing hot air on one side of you, and cold air on the other (and some straight on as the defrost air can be felt on my face.) The Ford engineer sat in my car and verified this condition and expressed amazement at the disparate temperatures and left to figure out how to fix it. Well that was then, this is now. Now it's NORMAL. So, if this is normal - how many of you reading this need to bring your LS in to have your HVACs fixed? Cause if they actually blow warm air (or no air) from defrost/demist under these conditions, well that must be ABNORMAL by implication.
My dealer has (or says he has) gone to bat for me by repeating my request for a SPEC or some WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION that says this is normal, or at least gives a range of acceptable air temps out the vents under differing conditions. As an engineer myself i am absolutely sure such a document has to exist IF Ford bothered to test this system properly. The regional engineer claims no such documentation exists. So in that case, ANYTHING can be deemed NORMAL I guess!
So. Folks who've followed my history with the LS will know that, while I haven't been a blind Lincoln sychophant, I have been basically very happy with my LS (bought new in Feb 2001) and with Lincoln in general. I have posted usually in support of same. Now? I am sitting with $85,000 worth of Lincoln iron in my garage (bought a Nav at xmas time) and am being treated like a total [non-permissible content removed] and a fool by their "Customer Service" and Lincoln Commitment" departments. So, unless a miracle occurs, 'To h_ll with them.'
George
It may actually be NORMAL, but if so, it sounds like a bad idea to me. I would be unhappy as well.
On my 99 Navigator, which had superior HVAC IMO, it did have a quirk that I bugged the dealer about for about a year. The External Temp readout didn't seem to work in town, but worked fine on the highway. I thought it was malfunctioning, but the dealer kept telling me it was normal. Finally, I persisted so much, the service manager printed out a description of the operation of the function for me, which had the operating specs on it. They weren't lying. Some engineering genius had designed the system to only change a readout when the car had been traveling over 40 MPH for 4 minutes or longer, so in stop & go traffic, your readout would likely never change. It was NORMAL, in other words, but useless.
I'm sure that doesn't help. I'm sorry.
Might be normal? Does your home heater blow hot in one room, cold in another? :>)
Seriously though, I have heard a bit about the Aviator problem as well. In fact, when I bought the Nav, my first desire was the Aviator. I brought the family and we drove it. I was disappointed - not about the handling or looks or power, but it was just too small for the family (of 5) the way I wanted to use it, the driver's seat just did not mesh with me - I couldn't quite get comfortable AND - the HVAC system acted like my LS. I specifically checked that and that would have put me off the Aviator by itself.
Then, I test drove the Nav. I expected a clunky elephantine rig swinging and swerving etc. Was I surprised. The power is fine, the handling superb, there's plenty of room for the family AND - the HVAC system does NOT work the way my LS does. It works correctly. Hot air everywhere when necessary. I checked that too during the test drive.
BTW, my 1993 Mark 8 w/ auto HVAC worked like the Navigator, as do my 1997 Dodge van, my 1986 Jeep Cherokee, my 1994 Toyota P/U in fact ALL the vehicles I've ever owned have blown either hot/warm air or cold air, never both simultaneously.
It boggles my mind that anyone could think the way my LS HVAC works is NORMAL.
It'll be AWD...Notice how more automaker's are moving to AWD. Caddy STS, G35, Next Acura RL, etc. As I mentioned months ago, it was between the D3 platform, or the Panther platform (TC, GM, CV). Obviously they made a decision to go with a modern unibody, over the BOF of the Panther's.
Details are still being planned out, it's not as bad as people expect it to be.
The following link contains more details:
http://autoweek.com/cat_print.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=- - carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=06803524&76220785- - 2
I don't have exact name for part in my head. Will try to find dealer receipt & description 2nite at home.
akirby: You've been around since the beginning. What say you about my problem? Does your LS work 'normally'?
I just dropped 1000 dollars on a repair, for stalling, that was supposed to keep me safe in traffic. I had absolute faith in their judgemnet of the repair. So much that I choose to hit the road with it again on to find myself in two near death accidents due to stalling in city traffic.
The fact that safety isn't a concern should be a clear enough indicator that it isn't going to get better.
I have a wife and two kids and I can't be playing chicken with SUV's and large buses every morning. It is appearent that no one at the helm gives two cents about customer satisfaction even if you are a repeat customer.
The die hasn't been cast on my next purchase yet but I can assure you that it will not be, nor ever be, a licoln. Nothing or no one is perfect but an attempt can attempt to be and they are making any attempts.
The avis commercial comes to mind... the one where they say what if we only tried hard and the cut over to some schmoe providing very poor service then they cut back to pitching that is why they try hardER. Could someone at lincoln just try harder?
Sorry for the run on. Again good luck.
I am picking up my car all fixed tomorrow from my dealer after I have captured for them a shutdown and a no-start condition into their Rotunda-VDR (Vehicle-data-recorder) on loan. As luck would have it the two problems were day appart. I think the best will be that your deler contacts my dealer service department to get the inside scoop (probably confidential info. ) on the fix. I will let you know more tomorrow. Stay tuned!
Best suggestion is to never open rears. Guess I'd forgotten.
My 4th quality issue in 2 months at 57K. Getting real old. Love the drive, but this is ridiculous
If you decide to do it yourself i would be happy to help in any way possible.
Most of them sailed right by me on the twisty roads of West Virginia. Ahhh memories... although mine are not on mountain roads but I do have some great ramps on I75 and I4. Man I would had rented an LS but I got caught up in an airline debacle up in Newark.
If you treasure your sanity you will never fly in, around or through Newark. Make every effort to go another way. That is all I am going to say.
Here is what the mechanic did based on the DVR data.
replaced parts
U7Z*12A650*EHA Processor ASY-ENG Electr. Cntrl.(PCM)
2w4Z14A411*CA Wiring assy Connector
xw4Z*9F715*BA VLV ASY-Throt Air Bypass
12650D7 - PCM relay
Qty.2 F5TZ*14N089*B Rly.Asy-mulpl Func Plg in
Also TSB 03.07.03 and TSB 01.16.04 were executed.
Here is quote from my invoice
"The DVR info observed lean condition during shutdown IAC command 50%spec 50% at 30 MPH. Fuel trim incresed as well just before the stall. DTC P1237 in memory, however, fuel rail pressure never went above 40% when driving and never below when cranking."
Solution: replace PCM, IAC and Harness per TSB 03.07.03. Installed jumper per TSB 01.16.04. Inspected wiring and fuel pump connectors and verified fuel panel terminals.
So the good news is that the car runs like new again, but I should not get my confidence back-up just yet until I drive it for few weeks with no shutdown!!!
I will provide updates if all the above did the fix. In any case having a bunch a spare relays (Fuell Pump and PCM)in the glove box could be the LS-medical kit or temporary fix that might save money on towing charges!
Of course one could always switch similar relays in the fuse box and never have new spares. With ~24 relays in the three fuse boxes in the vehicle I say having some spares of similar types might be a very good thing!! Relay contact pitting under DC operation and contact resistance changes are all know to be a problem with automotive mechanical and non solid state relays. Just my 2cents worth!
Now I can't wait to get my LS grin back ON.....:-)