Just turned 97K a week or so ago, so should be well over 100 by the end of the year. A couple of fairly expensive repairs, but given the mileage, nothing unacceptable. It's never stopped me beside the road (knocking on wood), so far.
My 2001 Getrag LS has about 78,000 on it now. I've spent almost nothing on it for repairs, except for tires and just a couple months ago brakes for the first time. If only they could (would) fix the HVAC, I'd be about 100% satisfied. (Oh, make that 95% - I'd also like a blower or something to get more HP out of the V6). Else, happy as a clam.
I guess I figured that since the home page hadn't changed for months (at least on the address I'd bookmarked), that might be an indicator of something. Now I see there have been things going on, just invisible to me until now (or, more properly, the 11th).
Original owner, 2000 LS V8 Sport, build date 12/99, purchased 3/00. Only has 22.6K miles on her. Love her to death and will never let her go. Turned in my leased '03 LS Premium Sport earlier this year. Loved her too but had to let her go with less than 20K miles on her.
Bought ours in July 2006 with 96K miles. I like LS's look and the way it handles. Do not like the only greedy dealer in town. To replace three passenger side plugs they charged $270 parts and labor. The plugs are only $6.5 each. Had an air bag light coming on, they charged some $370 to replace the clock spring. The light came on 2-3 days later, now they want another $320 to replace a pig tail under the seat. The check engine light fix cost another $273 ($85 for diagnostics.) In the last two weeks I have spend $933 on this good looking LS.
In the old days, they determined what was wrong(no charge), then charged you parts and labor. That was it. These days, You are charged $50-$80 (or whatever they feel like) for diagnostics in addition to parts, labor, and shop material. These days service departments are business centers to rib you off coming and going. I think all are that way. There is no way of knowing if their service technicians are competent or whether they made a mistake and they expect you to pay for multiple repairs.
The seat sliding back and forth with key removal is a stupid idea. It puts way too much stress on power seat motor ( that sounds noisy right now compared to passenger side) and wears out the eletrical connections.
Using hydraulics for cooling fan is another unusual idea, and from what I have seen from other owners, that will fail pretty soon too.
LS is a very beautiful car but very expensive to fix. In 9 years of owning a 96 Toyota Camry XLE V-6, I spent only $150 to have the timing belt replaced. My E430 has been decent so far also.
The recent repairs reinforce the notion that the American cars not only have poor resale value, but they also drain you with poor down the road reliability. If the car is relible at least I don't have to deal with greedy dealers.
I expect a "Luxury" 7 year old car with 100K miles that has not been abused to hold up. If Toyota and Lexus do, why not expect that from Ford/Lincoln? I hate to use Toyota/Lexus name, but they have become benchmark for auto industry.
Do we have to always buy brand new cars with 3/36 warranty to feel good about what we drive?
You do know by their very nature that "luxury" cars are more prone to failure than economy cars dont you? A year ago when I was looking for something for my daughter to drive for a year or two, I looked at a used Lexus with about 135000 on it. The thing would've cost at least $1000 to fix the stuff that was wrong with it. And how do you know how it's been treated? You cant and you dont unless you were the original owner. Why did you buy it? Did you get a good price?
Amen.... This car has all the bells and whistles and we love it. We've had our share of probs w/our LS but the more electronics and computerized our cars get - the more that can go wrong! Sometimes I do miss the easy things in life - like driving our our old Mustang. Small block 289, automatic trans, manual window cranks, manual fresh air ducts, wind wings,drum brakes, no pvc/smog equipment, no a/c, just about any old Ford key will start the darn thing and NO computer controlling my vehicle. Oh those were the days!
Mine too.(Phoenix) They are selling the LSE for $28,000. The sticker is $46,000 hence the 18K off. But this is a 2005!! They don't even advertise a 2006.
I purchased a used 02' Silver LSE V8 Sport last March with only 32K. I now have 42K and replaced the original Michelen Tires with Goodyear Response Edge Tires. The tire dealer had to replace one lug nut that was stripped. Some time ago on some other LS Discussion Group I saw that someone had found a good aftermarket supplier of "hardened" LS Lug Nuts. Does any one know of such replacement lug nuts that are better than the OEM ones from the LM dealer? I trully love my LSE and have had no problems to date. A carfax check revealed no problems period.
........." Why did you buy it? Did you get a good price?"
Of course I bought it because I got it at a good price. What is wrong with that?
I buy good used cars as a hobby, drive them for a few years, do regular maintenace on them, try to figure out how they are put together,and then sell them and buy something else. I paid $17K for a 2001 E430 about eight months ago at a local MB dealer with 73K miles. They wanted $23K. that was when gas was $3 a gallon. I guess people were scared of V8 cars. The Mercedes V8 gets better gas mileage than LS's V-6. The best was 28.8 mpg at 70mph. The MB gets 26-27 on my highway commute to work. I paid $8500 for the LS with 96K miles.
I think I can tell how a used car is treated by spending about 30 minutes with the car. If one does not have the skill then I don't expect one to understand this. Let me know if you would like to know a few things about checking out a used car.
On the service part of the LS, I called the Lincoln service manager and said what if you charge me $100 for part and labor(instead of $300) to fix the pigtail under driver seat that is causing the air bag light to come on. they had already charged some $340 for supposedly bad clock spring. After some discussion, he agreed to $120.
The LS is a very good looking car, hopefully I am done spending money on it for several months.
It's eight years since the first post was made here concerning the Lincoln LS. I posited a year ago that the board would be dead by now, and it almost is. . .but not quite.
There were a few posts back in November about the infamous lug nuts, and there have been 218 posts in the last year. Plus which, the problems & solutions micro boards have had the occasional post, with the always-helpful reply from Akirby.
My '00 manual now has 106K on it and continues to do yoeman service as my daily driver; I try to get it out at least once a year on a real road trip (2-4K miles+), and am always pleased with its performance on the open, often twisty & hilly, road.
Enjoy your LS's, and let us know what you get as a replacement, when it's time to get a new car.
My 4/99 build LS V8 has 107K and still looks and runs like new. I had to replace a couple of COPs about a year ago and also the driver's heated seat element. Otherwise, the car has been flawless and is a solid and quiet as ever.
I have really wanted to replace my LS for a long time but Ford offers nothing that appeals to me. If not for my stupid loyalty, I would probably be driving an STS, DTS, or maybe even a 300C.
I thought perhaps the new Volvo S80 would be a good replacement but after looking them over, they just strike me as overpriced. I have driven XJ8s a couple of times but the styling is stale, the J-gate shifter is stupid, and the price high.
At this point, I am waiting for the MKS and the Jag XF to be introduced. Looks like I will be keeping my trusty LS for at least another year.
Yes, the XK has paddle shifters. I am hoping the production XF will have them, too. I love the XF concept. I also think the platform, AJ V8, and ZF transmission are stellar.
I am really looking forward to more information on the production XF.
Long live MY LS, cause I can't afford a new car. Knock wood - 80K miles and basically only scheduled maintenance, except for those GD chrome lug nits ARRGGHH.
Having been an original member a lincoln club which will go unnamed, which I resigned from a few years ago, this will be my last posting.
I would like to thank everyone here for their help over the years in figuring out some of my 2000 LS V8 problems.
The repairs have just gone past the point of reasonability (the car still needs AC fixed as it only throws cold on one side, heated seats don't function, there is $2k rattle). Through the years I replaced the following: heater motor ($725), 4 coils, all valve gaskets ($850), 2 window motors (yes motors just not regulators $450) and some other stuff too much to mention. I loved it when it was clean and ran right.
Ther are a few extra parts left over that I want to get rid of at a reduced cost (Air cabin filter (FP-25)& 3 Air filters, 1 of which is OEM and 2 are Purolator premium plus. If interested give me an email before they go on ebay.
Again thx to everyone for their help. It was a good run when it ran right (sounds like one of my old XKE stories).
Sorry to hear of your issues. How many total miles did u put on the car? Funny that it reminds you of XKE since the LS is a big part Jaguar, especially the V8. What is the $2K rattle you refer to?
As for 2 specific problems: The heated seats were failing right and left in 2000 and 2001. That's the reason that heated seats were the only option I left off my V6 when I ordered it. As to the AC blowing cold on one side - fuggettaboutit. My experience teaches that that is within spec according to Ford engineers. At least when the car is under warranty.
The car only had 78k on it. The 2k rattle is a group of knuckles, sway bars, etc. I could have lived w/o the heated seats but the rattle drove me nuts everytime i hit a bump. As far as the A/C, my gf wasn't too crazy about hot air blowing on her when it was 95 outside.
It will be replaced by a loaded Toyota Camry or a Nissan Altima 3.5. Something very highly rated in terms of minimal repairs. The Lincoln people treated me so poorly, after owning Lincolns for 15 years, that I would never go back. Such is the demise of American automakers.
I know about the rattle too. It's actually just the sway bar bushings (usually) that cause the rattle. $30 parts that wear prematurely. However Ford will NOT sell the bushings anymore. Instead they force the owner to replace the badly designed sway bar and bushings with a new design for about $800 and up. The up is if you also need the sway bar mounts, knuckles etc. What a RIP. They design it bad but force us to pay for their mistake. Mine (at80K) needs this work too but somehow my mechanic got hold of the old bushings (at least he thinks he did) and I'll be putting them in one of these days.
And as far as how they treat folks like you and I, it's a GD shame that they treat their customers like disposable idiots, but they do. I finally had it with my local dealer repair (North Bay Ford Lincoln Mercury in Santa Cruz Cal) recently and went off on them and the owner and my saleswoman in no uncertain terms. They dont care though. They have no desire to cater to customers who actually expect proper treatment. They just want dummies who'll take their cr_p and be quiet about it.
You are right, such is the demise of American companies in general. They care only about the bottom line this quarter. Everything else is ignored. Well their chickens are coming home to roost. Like you, I've had 3 Lincolns in the past 9 years. I haven't totally given up on them I guess cause I haven't had the reliability issues you have. But my advice to anyone considering a Ford product would be in part to avoid automatic transmissions and avoid auto HVAC systems. Ford's are trouble prone and they will not fix them. In my experience anyway.
Good luck with the Camry. I might avoid the Altima if I were you. My brother has one and it is not a well-made car. I dont think he's had a lot of reliability issues, but it is a rattletrap and it's only like an 02 or 03.
I began to look at the articles you posted and was surprised that the first one was from *NPR* !!?? and supposedly has positive things to say about American car companies!!?? Not usually their MO. Usually they are clueless PC robots.
Course, this sentence in the first paragraph does little to lift my expectations of them:
Also, this engine sludge problem is real. I guess Toyota is going to do something about it now, after a class action lawsuit.
Too bad there arent more LS owners around who might sue Ford for the sway bar and lug nut situation on the LS. Maybe we could get some help from Ford after all? Yeah, right. I was a member of a class action suit a few years ago. We won. I have yet to cash my settlement check. I'm going to frame it instead. It is for 67 cents. Meanwhile the lawyers have new vacation homes in Tahoe.
Actually, George, the bay is ~$100 from the dealer in Vegas. The real expense is in the labor. Bruno did his bar a while ago and said it was a real pain in the caboose!! I have 135K miles on my 2000 and will be in need of ball joints as well as the bar. The ball joint replacement is what is a crying shame! You must replace the whole knuckle to the tune of ~$220 each!!
I wonder if your cooling problem is the heater valve. Mine was blowing hot from the passenger side and cool from the drivers. I replaced the valve and all is well.
How come we don't hear from you at the other site??
You are right, such is the demise of American companies in general. They care only about the bottom line this quarter. Everything else is ignored.
That may have been true for the overall company strategy, but as for the individual dealerships, my experiences couldn't be more different. Here, I won't buy from the local Acura or Lexus dealers (one each) - I don't enjoy being treated like it's my privilege to shop there and I should be thankful they've let me in the door. That is, if you can get any attention at all. Ditto the nearest Honda and Toyota dealerships.
My shopping experience at the domestic dealerships was almost pleasant, and my buying and service experience at the nearest Lincoln dealership couldn't have been better.
Mike; Yeah, I've heard just how hard it is to replace the whole sway bar. Not sure I'd attempt that myself. Bushings are doable though.
As for the HVAC problem I have, it seems to be a blend door issue where too much AC air is added to the peripheral vents so they blow at about 60 degrees while center stack is about 110 degrees. Both sides are appx same. And Ford says that's "within spec". Not just the dealer, but the division rep and the company engineers themselves. But dnt ask to see the spec. While a fairly minor issue all things considered, it is the treatment I received on this issue alone that pushed me over the top.
I'd love to get back on the other site, but I just cant see paying for it. Yeah I know it costs $$$s to run, but there are other ways around that than charging the users.
I just fired off letters to the 2 local news channels as well as the local paper about "shop supply" overcharges and possibly how many 1000's of customers have been overcharged in the past few years. Hopefully there will be a full scale investigation and hit the headlines. Yeah I guess they pissed me off.
Veyy simply, there is a line item on your bill called "shop supplies" It is typically equal to 10% of the labor charges. It is supposed to cover nuts, bolts, lube that somehow don't come w/ the parts you've already paid for.
It also states that the "shop supply" is to be a maximum amount (read the very fine print). At Osman LM (Melbourne, FL) the cost was a max of $15., which has now been raised to $20. My charges were always over the $15. max.
I'm cocked in the "ready" position to buy something different the minute my LS gives me serious grief. However, I'm still waiting.
Every month that passes (with the LS long since paid for) is another month that I'm not spending money on whatever comes next. I'm a bit "thrifty," so this is a good thing.
Yesterday I was driving home from work at a fairly sporting speed for rush hour (70+), listening to the tunes, enjoying the otherwise quiet & considering whether I really "need" a different vehicle anytime soon. It inhales my mountain bike without a problem, with the rear seats down, and life is good.
My trip to the middle of Texas in October gave me yet another opportunity to enjoy the LS on the road -- 80+ mph on the Interstate & plenty of twisties in the hill country and Big Bend to exercise the suspension. I could be driving this thing for a long time.
Or not -- generally it's a single episode that drives me to the next vehicle. . .because I'm "cocked" to move on. When I first bought my LS I assumed the next one would be to a manual V8 LS, with all the improvements that ten years of development would have produced.
Whoops, sorry, I'm on the wrong board. People who think like this aren't welcome at Lincoln/Ford. They run BMW.
I have had excellent dealer service for my LSes from 2 dealerships: Mac Haik in Georgetown TX and Johnson-Sewell in Marbel Falls TX. They address any concern the car comes in with sincerely and work hard to fix any issues. If they have trouble duplicationg anything, we talk about it and work together to fix the problem. I always get a nice loaner car whenever it is in for service. Currently I have a Flight Recorder in my car to try to capture a bad transmission shift that occurs about once per month. I simply press a button when the bad shift occurs and it records data from all of the sensors for a period of time before and after I press the button. I thought this was a great solution for something that was next to impossible to duplicate. Now, I just have to wait for the even and push the button.
Well said. You and me both. Knock wood. I think one of the smarter things we did was buy the manual tranny model with the V6. The Ford Duratech seems to have been a lot more reliable than the Jag V8 and auto trannies by their very nature (and IME Ford's in particular) are much more trouble prone than a stick shift.
Have you had ANY trouble with the tranny or clutch? I haven't.
Last time I took my LS and cruised at over 80mph to LA, the CHP didn't like it. That's the most expensive problem I've had yet in my LS.
About eight months ago, my clutch began to not disengage completely. I wrote it off to a bad master cylinder & bought some fluid to top off the system. No joy. I went from the first symptom to no clutch whatsever in a few hours on a Saturday. Having driven a (class 8) truck for awhile, I've learned how to shift without the clutch, so was able to get the car home & on to the dealer by starting in first gear at red lights (when they turned green) & shifting clutchless from then until I got to the next red light.
Turned out to be the slave cylinder, which in this car (along with several others, I've learned) is INSIDE the bell housing -- the transmission needs to be taken out to do the replacement.
Imagine my surprise. Anyway, given that there's so much labour involved in getting at the damn slave cylinder, I went ahead & replaced the clutch & throwout bearing. All of this, BTW, cost a lot less than the automatic transmission work I've had done in the past on other cars.
So far, so good.
Oh, by the way, on the way back from Texas I was cruising down a traffic-free state highway that parallels I10 in southern New Mexico, where the speed limit had been 65 for about 70 miles -- I'd set the cruise to 69, and all I saw in the way of traffic was Border Patrol. As soon as I turned north to rejoin I10 (where the speed limit was reduced to 55 for some reason), I came over a rise and met one of New Mexico's finest, who zapped me with the latest in what used to be called VASCAR. First ticket I've had in years, but it was worth it. Really fine day, otherwise.
Would you think NC or Fla would be the better purchase locale for a Lincoln LS? NC does have state tax, but are there any glaring reasons why Fla might be better?
My son is trying to buy one but has not priced them on the lot in either state. He's military and just returned from the mideast...and got to have that newer car.
Anyone interested in purchasing OEM Air Cabin Filter and Air filter at a discount. $30 for both including shipping. These are for the 8 cylinder if it makes a difference.
I would like some help on tires for my 2002 LSE (in other model years it may be referred to as the LS V8 Sport).
The original tires on this car were the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4's. I was very happy with these tires. I never had Michelin tires before and I liked the ride. Getting used to the car as a whole package, I noticed some slight sway on turns but I didn't care. I was (and still am) very happy with my choice of vehicle after an extensive search.
I frequented Edmunds and this forum before and after my purchase. I read some postings of owners with older models who talked about replacing the MXM4's with I believe the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S's and they couldn't belive how much better the ride was.
Well, it was time to replace the MXM4's so I went to tirerack.com to view my options. I was surprised at the poor ratings given to the MXM4's so I looked for tires that were considered better. At this point I enjoy more the smooth ride of a luxury car like the LS, especially since my prior vehicle was a Camaro with a very jarring ride. I ened up finding that there were these Bridgestone Potenza AS Pole Position tires where reviewers gave it the highest grades (about 9 out of 10) for ride comfort so I decided to buy them. Note: reviewers gave the MXM4's about a 6 on ride comfort. Ratings for Pilot Sports were slightly lower than these Bridgestones.
I called my local tire dealer (Big O Tires) and they had them in their warehouse so I ordered them and had them installed. So, here I am expecting a smoother ride than the MXM4's but was very disppointed. These new tires ride very hard. The ride was almost as bad as my Camaro. I called the tire store and asked about tire pressure. The installers had followed Mfgr recommendations and put in 35 PSI ( I also went with nirtogen fill)but the LSE recommendation is 30 to 32. They said to bring it back and they adjusted the pressure to 30 PSI. To me it didn't help that much. So I went back in again and actually had a service guy go for a ride. He thought they were fine and actually the ride seemed smoother than the AM (nitrogen fill is not supposed to change with temperature). I decided to try for a couple more days but I asked about my options. He said I had 30-days to return if i don't like them and I'd get a pro-rated allowance towarsd replacements. I do find that the handling is much better with these tires so the give on turns is likely attributed to the MXM4's and not the car.
So here I am with about a week to go, have decided I don't like these Bridgestones and need to decide on replacements. I'm favoring going back to the MXM4's as I don't understand the comments and ratings by other owners. I thought I'd post here though since it's likely others have gone thru what I'm going thru. Since my biggest want is a smooth ride, I think I should go with a touring tire vs a High Performance Tire despite the favorable comments about the Pilot Sports (which are Hi-perfomance and Z-rated)
Any input and feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Comments
My 2000 LS8 (build date 10/99) is up to 113K....still runs great if I can ignore all the little things that have gone wrong with it.
My 2001 Getrag LS has about 78,000 on it now. I've spent almost nothing on it for repairs, except for tires and just a couple months ago brakes for the first time. If only they could (would) fix the HVAC, I'd be about 100% satisfied. (Oh, make that 95% - I'd also like a blower or something to get more HP out of the V6). Else, happy as a clam.
And I'm blessed to have the first (2000 V6 w/ 128+K miles) and the last (2006 w/~9K miles) LS.
I guess I figured that since the home page hadn't changed for months (at least on the address I'd bookmarked), that might be an indicator of something. Now I see there have been things going on, just invisible to me until now (or, more properly, the 11th).
Hope those two LS's hold up well for you.
In the old days, they determined what was wrong(no charge), then charged you parts and labor. That was it. These days, You are charged $50-$80 (or whatever they feel like) for diagnostics in addition to parts, labor, and shop material. These days service departments are business centers to rib you off coming and going. I think all are that way. There is no way of knowing if their service technicians are competent or whether they made a mistake and they expect you to pay for multiple repairs.
The seat sliding back and forth with key removal is a stupid idea. It puts way too much stress on power seat motor ( that sounds noisy right now compared to passenger side) and wears out the eletrical connections.
Using hydraulics for cooling fan is another unusual idea, and from what I have seen from other owners, that will fail pretty soon too.
LS is a very beautiful car but very expensive to fix. In 9 years of owning a 96 Toyota Camry XLE V-6, I spent only $150 to have the timing belt replaced. My E430 has been decent so far also.
The recent repairs reinforce the notion that the American cars not only have poor resale value, but they also drain you with poor down the road reliability. If the car is relible at least I don't have to deal with greedy dealers.
Joe
78k and still running although rather expensively.
Do we have to always buy brand new cars with 3/36 warranty to feel good about what we drive?
Joe
A year ago when I was looking for something for my daughter to drive for a year or two, I looked at a used Lexus with about 135000 on it. The thing would've cost at least $1000 to fix the stuff that was wrong with it.
And how do you know how it's been treated? You cant and you dont unless you were the original owner.
Why did you buy it? Did you get a good price?
Of course I bought it because I got it at a good price. What is wrong with that?
I buy good used cars as a hobby, drive them for a few years, do regular maintenace on them, try to figure out how they are put together,and then sell them and buy something else. I paid $17K for a 2001 E430 about eight months ago at a local MB dealer with 73K miles. They wanted $23K. that was when gas was $3 a gallon. I guess people were scared of V8 cars. The Mercedes V8 gets better gas mileage than LS's V-6. The best was 28.8 mpg at 70mph. The MB gets 26-27 on my highway commute to work. I paid $8500 for the LS with 96K miles.
I think I can tell how a used car is treated by spending about 30 minutes with the car. If one does not have the skill then I don't expect one to understand this. Let me know if you would like to know a few things about checking out a used car.
On the service part of the LS, I called the Lincoln service manager and said what if you charge me $100 for part and labor(instead of $300) to fix the pigtail under driver seat that is causing the air bag light to come on. they had already charged some $340 for supposedly bad clock spring. After some discussion, he agreed to $120.
The LS is a very good looking car, hopefully I am done spending money on it for several months.
Joe
There were a few posts back in November about the infamous lug nuts, and there have been 218 posts in the last year. Plus which, the problems & solutions micro boards have had the occasional post, with the always-helpful reply from Akirby.
My '00 manual now has 106K on it and continues to do yoeman service as my daily driver; I try to get it out at least once a year on a real road trip (2-4K miles+), and am always pleased with its performance on the open, often twisty & hilly, road.
Enjoy your LS's, and let us know what you get as a replacement, when it's time to get a new car.
I have really wanted to replace my LS for a long time but Ford offers nothing that appeals to me. If not for my stupid loyalty, I would probably be driving an STS, DTS, or maybe even a 300C.
I thought perhaps the new Volvo S80 would be a good replacement but after looking them over, they just strike me as overpriced. I have driven XJ8s a couple of times but the styling is stale, the J-gate shifter is stupid, and the price high.
At this point, I am waiting for the MKS and the Jag XF to be introduced. Looks like I will be keeping my trusty LS for at least another year.
I am really looking forward to more information on the production XF.
I would like to thank everyone here for their help over the years in figuring out some of my 2000 LS V8 problems.
The repairs have just gone past the point of reasonability (the car still needs AC fixed as it only throws cold on one side, heated seats don't function, there is $2k rattle). Through the years I replaced the following: heater motor ($725), 4 coils, all valve gaskets ($850), 2 window motors (yes motors just not regulators $450) and some other stuff too much to mention. I loved it when it was clean and ran right.
Ther are a few extra parts left over that I want to get rid of at a reduced cost (Air cabin filter (FP-25)& 3 Air filters, 1 of which is OEM and 2 are Purolator premium plus. If interested give me an email before they go on ebay.
Again thx to everyone for their help. It was a good run when it ran right (sounds like one of my old XKE stories).
As for 2 specific problems:
The heated seats were failing right and left in 2000 and 2001. That's the reason that heated seats were the only option I left off my V6 when I ordered it.
As to the AC blowing cold on one side - fuggettaboutit. My experience teaches that that is within spec according to Ford engineers. At least when the car is under warranty.
Any idea what you'll replace your LS with?
It will be replaced by a loaded Toyota Camry or a Nissan Altima 3.5. Something very highly rated in terms of minimal repairs. The Lincoln people treated me so poorly, after owning Lincolns for 15 years, that I would never go back. Such is the demise of American automakers.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6865776
Or this:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/toyota_sludge_settlement.html
I know about the rattle too. It's actually just the sway bar bushings (usually) that cause the rattle. $30 parts that wear prematurely. However Ford will NOT sell the bushings anymore. Instead they force the owner to replace the badly designed sway bar and bushings with a new design for about $800 and up. The up is if you also need the sway bar mounts, knuckles etc. What a RIP. They design it bad but force us to pay for their mistake. Mine (at80K) needs this work too but somehow my mechanic got hold of the old bushings (at least he thinks he did) and I'll be putting them in one of these days.
And as far as how they treat folks like you and I, it's a GD shame that they treat their customers like disposable idiots, but they do. I finally had it with my local dealer repair (North Bay Ford Lincoln Mercury in Santa Cruz Cal) recently and went off on them and the owner and my saleswoman in no uncertain terms. They dont care though. They have no desire to cater to customers who actually expect proper treatment. They just want dummies who'll take their cr_p and be quiet about it.
You are right, such is the demise of American companies in general. They care only about the bottom line this quarter. Everything else is ignored. Well their chickens are coming home to roost. Like you, I've had 3 Lincolns in the past 9 years. I haven't totally given up on them I guess cause I haven't had the reliability issues you have. But my advice to anyone considering a Ford product would be in part to avoid automatic transmissions and avoid auto HVAC systems. Ford's are trouble prone and they will not fix them. In my experience anyway.
Good luck with the Camry. I might avoid the Altima if I were you. My brother has one and it is not a well-made car. I dont think he's had a lot of reliability issues, but it is a rattletrap and it's only like an 02 or 03.
I began to look at the articles you posted and was surprised that the first one was from *NPR* !!?? and supposedly has positive things to say about American car companies!!?? Not usually their MO. Usually they are clueless PC robots.
Course, this sentence in the first paragraph does little to lift my expectations of them:
"The new Saturn Aurora ... "
Too bad there arent more LS owners around who might sue Ford for the sway bar and lug nut situation on the LS. Maybe we could get some help from Ford after all? Yeah, right. I was a member of a class action suit a few years ago. We won. I have yet to cash my settlement check. I'm going to frame it instead. It is for 67 cents. Meanwhile the lawyers have new vacation homes in Tahoe.
I wonder if your cooling problem is the heater valve. Mine was blowing hot from the passenger side and cool from the drivers. I replaced the valve and all is well.
How come we don't hear from you at the other site??
That may have been true for the overall company strategy, but as for the individual dealerships, my experiences couldn't be more different. Here, I won't buy from the local Acura or Lexus dealers (one each) - I don't enjoy being treated like it's my privilege to shop there and I should be thankful they've let me in the door. That is, if you can get any attention at all. Ditto the nearest Honda and Toyota dealerships.
My shopping experience at the domestic dealerships was almost pleasant, and my buying and service experience at the nearest Lincoln dealership couldn't have been better.
You just never. . .
Yeah, I've heard just how hard it is to replace the whole sway bar. Not sure I'd attempt that myself. Bushings are doable though.
As for the HVAC problem I have, it seems to be a blend door issue where too much AC air is added to the peripheral vents so they blow at about 60 degrees while center stack is about 110 degrees. Both sides are appx same. And Ford says that's "within spec". Not just the dealer, but the division rep and the company engineers themselves. But dnt ask to see the spec. While a fairly minor issue all things considered, it is the treatment I received on this issue alone that pushed me over the top.
I'd love to get back on the other site, but I just cant see paying for it. Yeah I know it costs $$$s to run, but there are other ways around that than charging the users.
What does that mean? Care to paraphrase your letter here?
It also states that the "shop supply" is to be a maximum amount (read the very fine print). At Osman LM (Melbourne, FL) the cost was a max of $15., which has now been raised to $20. My charges were always over the $15. max.
Every month that passes (with the LS long since paid for) is another month that I'm not spending money on whatever comes next. I'm a bit "thrifty," so this is a good thing.
Yesterday I was driving home from work at a fairly sporting speed for rush hour (70+), listening to the tunes, enjoying the otherwise quiet & considering whether I really "need" a different vehicle anytime soon. It inhales my mountain bike without a problem, with the rear seats down, and life is good.
My trip to the middle of Texas in October gave me yet another opportunity to enjoy the LS on the road -- 80+ mph on the Interstate & plenty of twisties in the hill country and Big Bend to exercise the suspension. I could be driving this thing for a long time.
Or not -- generally it's a single episode that drives me to the next vehicle. . .because I'm "cocked" to move on. When I first bought my LS I assumed the next one would be to a manual V8 LS, with all the improvements that ten years of development would have produced.
Whoops, sorry, I'm on the wrong board. People who think like this aren't welcome at Lincoln/Ford. They run BMW.
Well said. You and me both. Knock wood. I think one of the smarter things we did was buy the manual tranny model with the V6. The Ford Duratech seems to have been a lot more reliable than the Jag V8 and auto trannies by their very nature (and IME Ford's in particular) are much more trouble prone than a stick shift.
Have you had ANY trouble with the tranny or clutch? I haven't.
Last time I took my LS and cruised at over 80mph to LA, the CHP didn't like it. That's the most expensive problem I've had yet in my LS.
About eight months ago, my clutch began to not disengage completely. I wrote it off to a bad master cylinder & bought some fluid to top off the system. No joy. I went from the first symptom to no clutch whatsever in a few hours on a Saturday. Having driven a (class 8) truck for awhile, I've learned how to shift without the clutch, so was able to get the car home & on to the dealer by starting in first gear at red lights (when they turned green) & shifting clutchless from then until I got to the next red light.
Turned out to be the slave cylinder, which in this car (along with several others, I've learned) is INSIDE the bell housing -- the transmission needs to be taken out to do the replacement.
Imagine my surprise. Anyway, given that there's so much labour involved in getting at the damn slave cylinder, I went ahead & replaced the clutch & throwout bearing. All of this, BTW, cost a lot less than the automatic transmission work I've had done in the past on other cars.
So far, so good.
Oh, by the way, on the way back from Texas I was cruising down a traffic-free state highway that parallels I10 in southern New Mexico, where the speed limit had been 65 for about 70 miles -- I'd set the cruise to 69, and all I saw in the way of traffic was Border Patrol. As soon as I turned north to rejoin I10 (where the speed limit was reduced to 55 for some reason), I came over a rise and met one of New Mexico's finest, who zapped me with the latest in what used to be called VASCAR. First ticket I've had in years, but it was worth it. Really fine day, otherwise.
My son is trying to buy one but has not priced them on the lot in either state. He's military and just returned from the mideast...and got to have that newer car.
Thanks, Jim.
aiuto@att.net
The original tires on this car were the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4's. I was very happy with these tires. I never had Michelin tires before and I liked the ride. Getting used to the car as a whole package, I noticed some slight sway on turns but I didn't care. I was (and still am) very happy with my choice of vehicle after an extensive search.
I frequented Edmunds and this forum before and after my purchase. I read some postings of owners with older models who talked about replacing the MXM4's with I believe the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S's and they couldn't belive how much better the ride was.
Well, it was time to replace the MXM4's so I went to tirerack.com to view my options. I was surprised at the poor ratings given to the MXM4's so I looked for tires that were considered better. At this point I enjoy more the smooth ride of a luxury car like the LS, especially since my prior vehicle was a Camaro with a very jarring ride. I ened up finding that there were these Bridgestone Potenza AS Pole Position tires where reviewers gave it the highest grades (about 9 out of 10) for ride comfort so I decided to buy them. Note: reviewers gave the MXM4's about a 6 on ride comfort. Ratings for Pilot Sports were slightly lower than these Bridgestones.
I called my local tire dealer (Big O Tires) and they had them in their warehouse so I ordered them and had them installed. So, here I am expecting a smoother ride than the MXM4's but was very disppointed. These new tires ride very hard. The ride was almost as bad as my Camaro. I called the tire store and asked about tire pressure. The installers had followed Mfgr recommendations and put in 35 PSI ( I also went with nirtogen fill)but the LSE recommendation is 30 to 32. They said to bring it back and they adjusted the pressure to 30 PSI. To me it didn't help that much. So I went back in again and actually had a service guy go for a ride. He thought they were fine and actually the ride seemed smoother than the AM (nitrogen fill is not supposed to change with temperature). I decided to try for a couple more days but I asked about my options. He said I had 30-days to return if i don't like them and I'd get a pro-rated allowance towarsd replacements. I do find that the handling is much better with these tires so the give on turns is likely attributed to the MXM4's and not the car.
So here I am with about a week to go, have decided I don't like these Bridgestones and need to decide on replacements. I'm favoring going back to the MXM4's as I don't understand the comments and ratings by other owners. I thought I'd post here though since it's likely others have gone thru what I'm going thru. Since my biggest want is a smooth ride, I think I should go with a touring tire vs a High Performance Tire despite the favorable comments about the Pilot Sports (which are Hi-perfomance and Z-rated)
Any input and feedback would be greatly appreciated.