George - the average LS transaction price after rebates was probably $35K or less (the V6 models were selling as low as $25K at one point). Zephyr has to be close to that, at least in the low $30s.
But the biggest difference is Ford is losing money on every LS they sell (even at a higher price) and they're making money on every Zephyr.
That is certainly true. It's too expensive to manufacturer the LS, and anything under $35K makes it unprofittable. Even my fully loaded LS stickered at a bit over $52K...doesn't mean I even paid half of that.
The Zephyr at it's pricepoint does make a profit, although right now it's really paying the amortization in design and manufacturing etc.etc. and so on, but yes... it was designed with profittability in mind.
And most importantly, it's not just the 1800 Zephyr units, it's the Milan numbers as well which is keeping the L/M dealerships happy. Add the new MKZ with the Duratec 3.5L, and the new MKX, and you'll have a much happier L/M showroom.
Stan, good to hear from you! The '06 actually handles better. The ride is more forgiving, yet at the same time extremely well controlled. I think the seats are more comfortable in my '00, but that may be caused by the air-conditioned mechanism. I don't get to drive it much, but am told the seats actually get more comfortable over time. We've had it almost 3 months now and were it not for 3 trips to The Magic Kingdom, a trip to the in-laws and three trips to Mission Valley, we would have barely 2K miles on it. As it sits, we're just shy of 3K. I did the oil at just over 2K, as is my custom. I saw nothing shiney in the old stuff, but some gorilla put the filter on! I had to use the "screwdriver method" to remove it! Witt has ~30 LSes, but the majority are black or silver. We ended up at Townsend L/M. They also gave us, sight unseen, $10K for the '01 V6 with ~62K miles. Witt was only going to give us ~$8K.
I gotta tell you, I really like the '06. The THX/NAV is super. I'll never have our "family truckster" without the NAV again!
I see the TMV on the 2006 LS is around $33k. With 2006 being the last year for the LS, is there any chance we could see these go in the mid to high twenties? I'd bite at that price.
A few of us back in 2000 thought the LS was worth invoice or so.
You folks have a different point of view. If I'd known the LS was going to become a bottom-feeder kind of vehicle, I'd have never bought (that's bought, not leased) it in the first place. Then I'd have kept my record clean and never owned a vehicle built in the U.S. Well, I did, that one time.
Don't feel too bad. There are some folks out there, like me, that bought a TBird and an LS (for my wife).
I paid Z-plan on the 03 TBird (and thought I was getting a great deal), and paid a lot less for the 04 LS (Z-plan less rebate).
If I had to do it again, I still would have bought the LS. But, the jury's still out on the TBird.
It's not that I don't like the 03 TBird. It's just that having two other toys (64 Galaxie convert and 58 TBird) doesn't leave a lot of time to enjoy all threee cars. (My daily commuter/bad weather car is a 94 TBird.)
Hopefully, my inventory will go down by one this spring/summer-goodby 58 TBird.
Hopefully, my inventory will go down by one this spring/summer-goodby 58 TBird.
WOW! Granted, I haven't driven ANY of those, but I don't think that's the one I'd be cutting lose. A late 50s, early 60s Bird is one of my dream cars, though.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
1958 TBird was a first year car and many people who bought them suffered greatly with first year problems. Yeah, I was around then and knew a couple of them. I would imagine jerrym3's has been well sorted out by now. :-)
But, unfortunately, there's not enough time to drive and enjoy all of them. I plan to retire in 2007 and, as long as I have one old car for the local car shows, I'm set.
Sell the 03 Bird (black/saddle buckets/rare combo)? I could, but I'd take one heck of a bath. I still have hopes that this car could be a classic for one of my daughters to exhibit when I'm gone.
Sell the 64 Galaaxie? (turq/black bucket seats/500XL clone/209,000 miles on the body) Can't do it. Bought this car in 1967 for $795. It's part of the family now. Still looks great/rides well, has some chassis rot, but it's had the rot since 1979 and it still runs/rides very nice. They'll bury me in this one.
Sell the 94? (black/LX/4.6/tan leather interior/3:25 rear/sun roof) 129,000 miles and except for a rebuilt trans, still pretty much like new. Added a factory spoiler a few years ago; just took off a nice set of 16" TSW Imola wheels (this car will never get another set of 16" tires, at least not from me). Car is basically my go-to-work vehicle, so this one gets sold also in 2007.
Sell the 58 TBird? logical choice (white hardtop/black/white interior) No real emotional ties. Original 61,000 mile car, second owner, I even have all the paperwork from the Ford dealer (Hackensack, Ford, Hackensack, NJ-prices, options, trade-in, etc). Car need TLC, could use a paint job (if someone really want to restore it) but has no rust. Bought it in 1989 off the original owner (93 year old widow) with 49,000 miles. Paid $4,000. Great car for showing as-is. No Barrett/Jackson car, but a real attention getter. Good car for a square bird lover who wants a restoration project.
I've had a ton of cars over the years (57 Chev BelAir, 57 Olds convt, 54 Olds standard shift (very rare), 68 Cyclone GT, 72 Ltd Brougham, 55 Ford convert, 85 TurboCoupe), but the one I never, never should have sold was a 1965 Corvette (purchased new by me), 327/300/4 sp/two tops/Nassau blue out and in. That car was THE keeper.
If you post your email, I can send pictures of the latest batch.
my email address is in my profile. Its better to get it that way than for me to post it. When you post it, any search engine can find it and exploit it.
Wow. 61k original miles. That's great.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I’m going to offer a contrarian view of the Lincoln LS from what has been voiced here lately and speak out on its behalf. My apologies to the moderators if this is too lengthy.
My 2004 LS (V6 – no frills or options – I’m cheap) is the first American car I’ve bought. I have to admit, it was with some trepidation, considering the reputation American brand cars have garnered over the years. Given the way some of our allies acted after the start of the war in Iraq, I didn’t want to buy anything from Europe, so it was either Japanese or American. I cross shopped the Lexus ES 330, the Acura TL, the Caddy CTS, and, out of curiosity, the Chrysler 300 Limited. The Lincoln LS was the best balance between what I liked and didn’t like of the other cars.
Lexus: too soft and uninspired handling; hate the exterior (looks like a Pokemon with too many facelifts). Great understated interior; great build quality. However, they’re belly button cars – everyone has one. Acura: too harsh and choppy handling; hate the interior (someone here used the term “Tokyo by night” – great description). Liked the exterior. Terrible treatment at the dealership turned me off the brand. Caddy: interior and build not worth the asking price. Not sure about the styling, either inside or out. Nothing in particular to recommend it over the others. Chrysler: cheap interior build quality. Pimp exterior styling, and poor sightlines. Needs the Hemi, but it’s not worth the asking price PLUS the “regional economic adjustment.” Part owned by a European country and not built in the US.
The LS has nicely understated styling – I don’t want to stand out in a bunch of bling. The V6 provides more than enough power – any more and I’d just get myself in trouble. The ride is a nice balance between the harsh Acura and soft Lexus. Part of me wants the mid-life crisis Corvette, but the practical part of me wants the comfortable-yet-still engaging drive. Is the interior worth the $33,000 sticker? No, but it is worth the price I paid after the discounts. All in all, at 20,000 miles I’m happy with the car. And, one thing not often discussed here on the Lincoln LS or Zephyr forums, is the dealership experience. I guess I’m getting old enough and settled enough that I like the red carpet treatment at the Lincoln dealership. To me, it’s all part of the near luxury ownership experience.
Hi Guys. It's like old times.I miss the 00 MTX. When I turned it in at the end of the lease, the Getrag was whining slightly in 2nd gear. Steve - do you hear anything from yours? Of course, I thrashed that box and it held up quite well considering how tiny it really is. The MTX tranny in my 1974 Corolla SR5 was way bigger in size. Amazingly, no clutch problems at all in 36,000 miles. Someone is still having fun with my LS- Somewhere. Anyone hear from Brian at LLSOC? I understand he is not running it anymore. I'm driving a Prius now, so I don't know what G-forces and acceleration are like anymore. I think that Premium gas cars will not be popular in the future as it's 20 to 28 cents more per gallon. It's historically been only 10 cents more than Regular. With real estate in the tank, I am way underemployed. Now that I have some time to play with my car, I don't have a fun one to play with! I've got to think that the remaining LSes will be bargains soon!
Given the depreciation in mine after only 20,000 miles, I'd say they're a bargain now!
The depreciation is one thing that's disappointing, but I expected it going in, so I have nothing to gripe about. Unlike folks who bought one in 2000, when the model was new and award winning. Who would have thought then that the LS would eventually depreciate so rapidly?
So, Stan, you're in a hybrid. How did that Nissan product you got after the LS work out? Murano? -- as I recall it did have a manual. A hybrid is beyond even an automatic in terms of disconnection from the driving experience and/or potential failure modes. Better you than me.
My LS is still running fine, and the manual makes zero noise of any kind. There are a variety of reasons why I'm pondering what I'll get next, but problems with the LS are low on the list.
Why I'm delaying getting anything else has quite a bit to do with the differential between what I paid for the LS (back when we thought it would amount to something) relative to what I'd get for it these days (now that we know that it won't).
Anyone who came into possession of an LS after the first year or two didn't have the burden of having to actually pay somewhere between invoice and sticker. Gotta love those $2-10K rebates.
Does Lincoln and the LS receive the distinct (extinct!) award for being the manufacturer/model to go from a Motor Trend Car of the Year award winner in its debute to being only a memory in 6 years? Has any manufacturer/model done it in less than 6 model years?
The Camary (largest selling car in America) has been around for a number of years with the manufacturer continually improving upon and refreshing it year after year. I believe it won a Car of the Year award a couple of times over its still existence.
Just think what Lincoln and LS could have done with a strategy as such but they just cash cowed the original design and really did not make any major improvements or re-fresh it over the 6 year life span that it had. WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN! and it is probably why the American auto makers are in the state they are in with rapidly declining brand loyalty and marketshare that goes with it.
Agree totally with displaced Texan. My wife has an '04 LS 6cylinder with appearance package, sunroof, etc. Approaching 20,000 miles. Been a good car so far. A few minor problems in the first 6 months (dead battery, had to reprogram transmission, wheel speed sensor went bad) but since then it has been trouble free. Given the discount, the trade-in on a '94 Eldorado, etc. it was a good deal.
It was our first American car in at least 15 years.
Given the huge discounts on the remaining '06s I am serioulsy thinking of getting one for myself. Had 4 Audis in my life, 4 Porsches, etc. Really would like one more Porsche before I retire but driving 35 miles to the dealership and leaving it in the garage during a harsh midwest winter is just no fun. Lincoln dealer is 3 miles from the house. All they handle is Lincoln-Mercury and they know who you are when you walk in the door. Not bad at all.
I have a 2001 LS and can't budge the high brake light cover using the method you indicated...I'm afraid it will break. Was there anything else I should do? Thanks.
Didn't the 2002 TBird go from "Car of the Year" to "discontinued" at the end of the 2005 model run?
Heck, if true, how many other car owners (like myself) can claim that they own two Motor Trend Car of the Year vehicles, and that they have both been discontinued?
Maybe we ought to start a "Car of the Year" failures club. Just goes to show what credibility buyers place on the winner of the COTY.
After lusting after the LS since they first came out, I finally took the plunge and bought one. I have been very happy with the car so far (3 days). From a tight, handling perspective, it is everything I expected and more.
Drive by wire is a little different and will take some getting used to. Almost like a slight delay factor from a dead stop but nearly instant on power when on the highway.
Steering wheel makes a slight noise when being turned but you have to have the radio off and really listen for it. Probably not a big deal.
'Service parking brake' light came on but then went off. I'm not going to worry about that. I think the electric parking brake is a little silly any way. Don't plan to use it much.
OK, enough rambling, I do have a question and need your collective help: Outside of owner's manual reccomendations, I believe, from my reading's on this and other forums, that the trans fluid/filter should be changed (use synthetic?), the spark plugs should be changed using anti-seize compound on the threads (is this a do it yourself job?).
What else preventative should I be thinking about doing just now? Is a service manual a good investment for this car and, if so, which one? Is synthetic motor oil recommended?
Well that is it for now. Thank you in advance for responding.
The electric parking brake takes up MUCH less console space and it will automatically disengage itself. Would've come in handy the 3 times I left the parking brake on in the Aviator.
It's not required but some folks recommend flushing the trans fluid every 30K. The OEM fluid is a synthetic blend and is fine - no need to switch. But make sure it's done at a CLEAN L/M dealer. A dirty flush is worse than not doing one at all.
Spark plugs should be done around 75K. You can DIY but it's a real pain.
The factory 5W-20 oil (motorcraft) is fine as long as you change it every 5K. It's hard to find 5W-20 full synthetic.
But PLEASE - read the owner's manual at least once.
Steering wheel makes a slight noise when being turned but you have to have the radio off and really listen for it. Probably not a big deal.
my service department told me my noise was just a matter of changing the steering fluid (a TSB). I didn't think that would fix the problem, since the noise seemed to me to be up at the top of the wheel (in the cabin), but, sure enough, the noise is gone now.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My new 06 LS came in Friday and either the dealer or factory screwed up the interior color. The dora sheet that I signed for the dealer had black interior. It arrived with shale dove. They are not taking any new orders so dealer gave me an extra $1K off to accept. A good shaped 2000 is now at a NCal dealer waiting for a lucky customer. Even though the LS is discontinued it is still the best value out there compared to BMW, MB, Jag, CTS, M300. A standard item on the 00 that I am missing on the 06 is the moisture sensing wipers. When did they stop putting this on the LS?
The first time I heard or read that the TBird was a three year product was after the car's demise was announced.
I did read limited annual production figures from day 1, but I don't remember reading anything about limiting the production years, and I read Motor trend, Car and Driver, and any other car mag that I can get my hands on in the barber shop.
I think it was Ford's way to cover up what obviously was not a good selling vehicle after the first year. Ford's icon nameplate is "Thunderbird", and at the end, they were practically giving them away. Embarassing.
But, and I made this challenge on the TBird chatbox, if anybody can come up with an article from 2002 that states the TBird will be discontinued after 2005, I'd love to see it. Heck, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
But, no matter. I'll probably keep mine for as long as I can still drive, unless someone makes me an offer that I can't refuse.
I never said it was planned for only 3 years - I think it was probably terminated early due to lagging sales. By the time it came out Ford had already killed any plans to continue using the DEW98 platform and I never saw or heard anything about a new version being planned or tested. So I think it's fair to say that particular model had a limited lifespan although it was probably intended to be 5-6 years instead of just 3.
Agreed, but since the platform still exists, I imagine that Ford would have kept making TBirds a bit longer if they had sold, and might have even kept the name around in some form or another.
Ford never could make it's mind up as to what the TBird really was/is/might be. Two, seater, four seater, four door, personal entry luxury car, family car, near luxury two door, performance car (Turbo and Super Coupes), etc, etc.
I give Gen Motors credit. They were going to kill the Corvette in the early days rather than morphing it into another type of vehicle(they kept making it, thanks to the TBird), but they never let the car stray too much from its roots.
I have three TBirds now, and I owned a 4th until a stupid accident did it in (1985 TurboCoupe)in 1994. Those that I own, or have owned, were pretty interesting cars, but there are some year TBirds that I would never have considered owning.
This is only my 2nd Lincoln (1989 TownCar)and, so far, so good. However, both Lincolns were bought mainly for my wife to drive, although I liked driving them both for different reasons.
Yes, the 94 TBird is heavy and the 205 hp 4.6 (even with the optional 3:25 (3:27?) rear) just about gets it around with a little bit of snap. My motor might be getting tired because I seem to be doing a lot more downshifting on upgrades than I used to. (Could be because I dumped my 16" low profile tires and went back to the original 15" rim with the standard tire profile.)
I assume you mean too expensive to make, because the out-the-door price wasn't that bad.
But, if you think that platform is too flexible (I don't) you would absolutely hate the 2002/5 version. Yes, the new one is a convert and, in that price bracket, converts don't have the tightness of a hardtop, but the looseness really puts a downer on what otherwise is a quick, attractive, fun car to drive.
After 129,000 miles, to me, my 94 still rides great, doesn't rattle, and is extremely quiet and trustworthy. But, it sure could have used the Lincoln 4.6 DOHC that Ford put in the Lincoln two door back then. (I thought I read that there was 1) a space problem under the TBird hood and 2) Ford figured if they put that motor in the TBird, who would buy the Lincoln?)
Jerry - the dew98 Tbird IS the 2002-2005 Tbird based on the LS dew98 chassis. It was so flexible that they had to put cross braces behind the seats and is one reason they created a new platform for the mustang instead of modifying the dew98. It just wasn't stiff enough for a convertible and the mustang needed rear seats - no room for cross bracing.
The 4.6 mod engine will fit in the LS/Tbird engine bay, but it can't be installed from the bottom due to one of the suspension components and that's required for assembly line production. If it had fit then I'm fairly certain it would have been used. It has to be cheaper than the one-off 3.9L AJ based V8, although you won't find a smoother Ford engine.
Guess I wasn't concentrating when I read your quote.
My comments on the motor were geared towards the 94 TBird model, not the 02/05.
The 3.9 is just fine in the Bird and LS. The one plus I like about the Bird and the LS is that there's more than enough power for normal driving and a few bursts back to my drag racing years.
My understanding from others on these forums is that the Zephyr is not a replacement for the LS. Likely the upcoming MKS is the designated replacement.
As for the Car and Driver review, I think the analytical quality is pretty weak, couched in reams of sarcasm. The very few objective measures cited aren’t that far off of those of the competitors listed, except for the Maxima SE and the Avalon Limited 0 to 60 times. (Frankly, I wouldn’t own a Maxima for a number of reasons, and I wouldn’t own an Avalon because I don’t want to deal with arrogant Toyota salesmen, and because I don’t like the stupid cover over the radio controls. My opinions.) There really aren’t any other objectives mentioned. You’ll note most of the negatives are matters of stylistic taste. The reviewer notes the high quality of interior materials and build; he then complains of the high dash cowl – a matter of taste. He slams the exterior keypad, saying that key fobs leave it anachronistic. Obviously, he’s never enjoyed the convenience of one – it allows one to leave the car running and locked when running into the 7-11 for a coffee; it allows one to leave their keys in the car when going to the gym.
Can it be compared to the LS? Obviously not. The LS is RWD, not FWD. Driving dynamics are totally different.
The very few objective measures cited aren’t that far off of those of the competitors listed, except for the Maxima SE and the Avalon Limited 0 to 60 times.
And the Accord and Sonata. Of course, you could argue the Accord or Sonata aren't in the same class ... but then neither are the Maxima or Chrysler, IMHO.
Interesting how, in all those listed in that article, the 3 "American" brands are the 3 slowest ... by quite a margin. I'm not bashing or anything ... just making an observation. I didn't even notice it until I was typing up this response.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The only thing I find attractive about the Z, when compared to the LS, is the dash. Seems more attractive and a bit higher class. (I like the dash in my 94 TBird better than my LS or 03 TBird. But, the LS loooks higher class than the TBird mainly due to the center stack trim.)
Sometimes manufacturers seem to overlook the fact that your most common view of your vehicle is from the driver's seat looking straight at the dash.
Above posts are correct. The LS was a BMW/Audi competitor. The Lincoln Z is a fancy Milan/Fusion, which is an Americanized Mazda, and cannot be considered a sport sedan.
You're spot on with your observations on the article. But, in real-world, everyday driving, I wonder how many drivers really care about quickest 0 - 60 times. Sure, it's one objective measure I might pay attention to when buying a car, but it's not a deciding factor.
I still think it's a poorly written, poorly researched article. The sarcasm was kind of entertaining, though.
thanks for the tsb on changing the power steering fluid. do you know if the dealer will do this for free out of warranty since it is a tsb? If not, does anyone know if this is very hard and where can i find info on what power steering fluid to use to stop the noise and how best to go about changing it.
I will read the manual and am about 1/2 the way through now.
I purchased my car new and have had this problem since I purchased the vehicle. I have never been able to fill up my tank by just holding down the gas pump. I can only get about one gallon in at a time before the line backs up and fuels starts overflowing.
ANT14 posted the following, in response to yet another of my rants regarding how the LS has fallen so short of its original long-term objectives, while meeting the short-term ones (other than sales volume and profit-per-vehicle) so well:
SO what happens when the next LS debuts and it's better overall than the vehicle it replaces? Are you more perturbed over the fact that the "going international" plan didn't pan out, or that the LS name (well, more about it's spirit) will continue on another vehicle with another name?
Back then I certainly hadn't seen a Zephyr & very few had driven one. Well, now I have & they have. The reviews appear less than stellar.
Is Lincoln still seriously trying to. . . do anything? I had a real question in there regarding a younger demographic & other things, but decided it was, well, you know, typical of my bitter self, so I pulled it.
I mount my 03 TBird chrome wheels on my LS for summer driving. (I use the original LS wheels for winter snowtires.)
I'm looking for an LS hubcap to replace the TBird hubcap.
The TBird cap is 6.5" in diameter. Anybody using 17" chrome LS wheels, I'd apprciate if you would measure your cap and let me know if you've found a fit, and the type/year wheel your LS has. (One chrome LS cap that I bought is a bit smaller and will not fit correctly.)
One wheel guy over on the ThunderBirdNest says that the cap off the LS LSE wheel will fit, but I can't find one to measure.
I have a somewhat similar problem on my 94 TBird. Can't get real heat even though the temp is right where it should be.
Is the blend door something that's easily changeable, or must the dash come off? (I had to take the dash off my 81 Fairmont many years ago to change the heater core. I do NOT want to go through that exercise again.)
Comments
LS Sales
Feb '06 Feb '05
1,074 2,812
Zephyr Sales
Feb '06
1,874
Total
Feb '06 Feb '05
2,948 2,812
So they sold 136 more cars, but the average price of the cars must have gone down substantially.
Can you say "cannibalize"?
But the biggest difference is Ford is losing money on every LS they sell (even at a higher price) and they're making money on every Zephyr.
The Zephyr at it's pricepoint does make a profit, although right now it's really paying the amortization in design and manufacturing etc.etc. and so on, but yes... it was designed with profittability in mind.
And most importantly, it's not just the 1800 Zephyr units, it's the Milan numbers as well which is keeping the L/M dealerships happy. Add the new MKZ with the Duratec 3.5L, and the new MKX, and you'll have a much happier L/M showroom.
And thats just the beginning...
I gotta tell you, I really like the '06. The THX/NAV is super. I'll never have our "family truckster" without the NAV again!
George
Greg
A few of us back in 2000 thought the LS was worth invoice or so.
You folks have a different point of view. If I'd known the LS was going to become a bottom-feeder kind of vehicle, I'd have never bought (that's bought, not leased) it in the first place. Then I'd have kept my record clean and never owned a vehicle built in the U.S. Well, I did, that one time.
Never again.
I paid Z-plan on the 03 TBird (and thought I was getting a great deal), and paid a lot less for the 04 LS (Z-plan less rebate).
If I had to do it again, I still would have bought the LS. But, the jury's still out on the TBird.
It's not that I don't like the 03 TBird. It's just that having two other toys (64 Galaxie convert and 58 TBird) doesn't leave a lot of time to enjoy all threee cars. (My daily commuter/bad weather car is a 94 TBird.)
Hopefully, my inventory will go down by one this spring/summer-goodby 58 TBird.
WOW! Granted, I haven't driven ANY of those, but I don't think that's the one I'd be cutting lose. A late 50s, early 60s Bird is one of my dream cars, though.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Sell the 03 Bird (black/saddle buckets/rare combo)? I could, but I'd take one heck of a bath. I still have hopes that this car could be a classic for one of my daughters to exhibit when I'm gone.
Sell the 64 Galaaxie? (turq/black bucket seats/500XL clone/209,000 miles on the body) Can't do it. Bought this car in 1967 for $795. It's part of the family now. Still looks great/rides well, has some chassis rot, but it's had the rot since 1979 and it still runs/rides very nice. They'll bury me in this one.
Sell the 94? (black/LX/4.6/tan leather interior/3:25 rear/sun roof) 129,000 miles and except for a rebuilt trans, still pretty much like new. Added a factory spoiler a few years ago; just took off a nice set of 16" TSW Imola wheels (this car will never get another set of 16" tires, at least not from me). Car is basically my go-to-work vehicle, so this one gets sold also in 2007.
Sell the 58 TBird? logical choice (white hardtop/black/white interior) No real emotional ties. Original 61,000 mile car, second owner, I even have all the paperwork from the Ford dealer (Hackensack, Ford, Hackensack, NJ-prices, options, trade-in, etc). Car need TLC, could use a paint job (if someone really want to restore it) but has no rust. Bought it in 1989 off the original owner (93 year old widow) with 49,000 miles. Paid $4,000. Great car for showing as-is. No Barrett/Jackson car, but a real attention getter.
Good car for a square bird lover who wants a restoration project.
I've had a ton of cars over the years (57 Chev BelAir, 57 Olds convt, 54 Olds standard shift (very rare), 68 Cyclone GT, 72 Ltd Brougham, 55 Ford convert, 85 TurboCoupe), but the one I never, never should have sold was a 1965 Corvette (purchased new by me), 327/300/4 sp/two tops/Nassau blue out and in. That car was THE keeper.
If you post your email, I can send pictures of the latest batch.
PS: I do not distribute or sell email addresses.
Wow. 61k original miles. That's great.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My 2004 LS (V6 – no frills or options – I’m cheap) is the first American car I’ve bought. I have to admit, it was with some trepidation, considering the reputation American brand cars have garnered over the years. Given the way some of our allies acted after the start of the war in Iraq, I didn’t want to buy anything from Europe, so it was either Japanese or American. I cross shopped the Lexus ES 330, the Acura TL, the Caddy CTS, and, out of curiosity, the Chrysler 300 Limited. The Lincoln LS was the best balance between what I liked and didn’t like of the other cars.
Lexus: too soft and uninspired handling; hate the exterior (looks like a Pokemon with too many facelifts). Great understated interior; great build quality. However, they’re belly button cars – everyone has one.
Acura: too harsh and choppy handling; hate the interior (someone here used the term “Tokyo by night” – great description). Liked the exterior. Terrible treatment at the dealership turned me off the brand.
Caddy: interior and build not worth the asking price. Not sure about the styling, either inside or out. Nothing in particular to recommend it over the others.
Chrysler: cheap interior build quality. Pimp exterior styling, and poor sightlines. Needs the Hemi, but it’s not worth the asking price PLUS the “regional economic adjustment.” Part owned by a European country and not built in the US.
The LS has nicely understated styling – I don’t want to stand out in a bunch of bling. The V6 provides more than enough power – any more and I’d just get myself in trouble. The ride is a nice balance between the harsh Acura and soft Lexus. Part of me wants the mid-life crisis Corvette, but the practical part of me wants the comfortable-yet-still engaging drive. Is the interior worth the $33,000 sticker? No, but it is worth the price I paid after the discounts. All in all, at 20,000 miles I’m happy with the car. And, one thing not often discussed here on the Lincoln LS or Zephyr forums, is the dealership experience. I guess I’m getting old enough and settled enough that I like the red carpet treatment at the Lincoln dealership. To me, it’s all part of the near luxury ownership experience.
Considering what an LS can be purchased for, it's one of the all-time best automotive values.
Anyone hear from Brian at LLSOC? I understand he is not running it anymore.
I'm driving a Prius now, so I don't know what G-forces and acceleration are like anymore. I think that Premium gas cars will not be popular in the future as it's 20 to 28 cents more per gallon. It's historically been only 10 cents more than Regular.
With real estate in the tank, I am way underemployed. Now that I have some time to play with my car, I don't have a fun one to play with!
I've got to think that the remaining LSes will be bargains soon!
The depreciation is one thing that's disappointing, but I expected it going in, so I have nothing to gripe about. Unlike folks who bought one in 2000, when the model was new and award winning. Who would have thought then that the LS would eventually depreciate so rapidly?
My LS is still running fine, and the manual makes zero noise of any kind. There are a variety of reasons why I'm pondering what I'll get next, but problems with the LS are low on the list.
Why I'm delaying getting anything else has quite a bit to do with the differential between what I paid for the LS (back when we thought it would amount to something) relative to what I'd get for it these days (now that we know that it won't).
Anyone who came into possession of an LS after the first year or two didn't have the burden of having to actually pay somewhere between invoice and sticker. Gotta love those $2-10K rebates.
The Camary (largest selling car in America) has been around for a number of years with the manufacturer continually improving upon and refreshing it year after year. I believe it won a Car of the Year award a couple of times over its still existence.
Just think what Lincoln and LS could have done with a strategy as such but they just cash cowed the original design and really did not make any major improvements or re-fresh it over the 6 year life span that it had. WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN! and it is probably why the American auto makers are in the state they are in with rapidly declining brand loyalty and marketshare that goes with it.
It was our first American car in at least 15 years.
Given the huge discounts on the remaining '06s I am serioulsy thinking of getting one for myself. Had 4 Audis in my life, 4 Porsches, etc. Really would like one more Porsche before I retire but driving 35 miles to the dealership and leaving it in the garage during a harsh midwest winter is just no fun. Lincoln dealer is 3 miles from the house. All they handle is Lincoln-Mercury and they know who you are when you walk in the door. Not bad at all.
Heck, if true, how many other car owners (like myself) can claim that they own two Motor Trend Car of the Year vehicles, and that they have both been discontinued?
Maybe we ought to start a "Car of the Year" failures club. Just goes to show what credibility buyers place on the winner of the COTY.
Drive by wire is a little different and will take some getting used to. Almost like a slight delay factor from a dead stop but nearly instant on power when on the highway.
Steering wheel makes a slight noise when being turned but you have to have the radio off and really listen for it. Probably not a big deal.
'Service parking brake' light came on but then went off. I'm not going to worry about that. I think the electric parking brake is a little silly any way. Don't plan to use it much.
OK, enough rambling, I do have a question and need your collective help: Outside of owner's manual reccomendations, I believe, from my reading's on this and other forums, that the trans fluid/filter should be changed (use synthetic?), the spark plugs should be changed using anti-seize compound on the threads (is this a do it yourself job?).
What else preventative should I be thinking about doing just now? Is a service manual a good investment for this car and, if so, which one? Is synthetic motor oil recommended?
Well that is it for now. Thank you in advance for responding.
It's not required but some folks recommend flushing the trans fluid every 30K. The OEM fluid is a synthetic blend and is fine - no need to switch. But make sure it's done at a CLEAN L/M dealer. A dirty flush is worse than not doing one at all.
Spark plugs should be done around 75K. You can DIY but it's a real pain.
The factory 5W-20 oil (motorcraft) is fine as long as you change it every 5K. It's hard to find 5W-20 full synthetic.
But PLEASE - read the owner's manual at least once.
Steering wheel makes a slight noise when being turned but you have to have the radio off and really listen for it. Probably not a big deal.
my service department told me my noise was just a matter of changing the steering fluid (a TSB). I didn't think that would fix the problem, since the noise seemed to me to be up at the top of the wheel (in the cabin), but, sure enough, the noise is gone now.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The Tbird was car of the year in 2002. With a three year model run, the TBird easily beats the LS from "car of the year" to "discontinued".
A standard item on the 00 that I am missing on the 06 is the moisture sensing wipers. When did they stop putting this on the LS?
The first time I heard or read that the TBird was a three year product was after the car's demise was announced.
I did read limited annual production figures from day 1, but I don't remember reading anything about limiting the production years, and I read Motor trend, Car and Driver, and any other car mag that I can get my hands on in the barber shop.
I think it was Ford's way to cover up what obviously was not a good selling vehicle after the first year. Ford's icon nameplate is "Thunderbird", and at the end, they were practically giving them away. Embarassing.
But, and I made this challenge on the TBird chatbox, if anybody can come up with an article from 2002 that states the TBird will be discontinued after 2005, I'd love to see it. Heck, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
But, no matter. I'll probably keep mine for as long as I can still drive, unless someone makes me an offer that I can't refuse.
Ford never could make it's mind up as to what the TBird really was/is/might be. Two, seater, four seater, four door, personal entry luxury car, family car, near luxury two door, performance car (Turbo and Super Coupes), etc, etc.
I give Gen Motors credit. They were going to kill the Corvette in the early days rather than morphing it into another type of vehicle(they kept making it, thanks to the TBird), but they never let the car stray too much from its roots.
I have three TBirds now, and I owned a 4th until a stupid accident did it in (1985 TurboCoupe)in 1994. Those that I own, or have owned, were pretty interesting cars, but there are some year TBirds that I would never have considered owning.
This is only my 2nd Lincoln (1989 TownCar)and, so far, so good. However, both Lincolns were bought mainly for my wife to drive, although I liked driving them both for different reasons.
The dew98 Tbird was too heavy, too expensive and the chassis was too flexible.
A modified Mustang platform with all new sheetmetal and a unique, more upscale interior with more amenities and V8 power would be a nice start.
I assume you mean too expensive to make, because the out-the-door price wasn't that bad.
But, if you think that platform is too flexible (I don't) you would absolutely hate the 2002/5 version. Yes, the new one is a convert and, in that price bracket, converts don't have the tightness of a hardtop, but the looseness really puts a downer on what otherwise is a quick, attractive, fun car to drive.
After 129,000 miles, to me, my 94 still rides great, doesn't rattle, and is extremely quiet and trustworthy. But, it sure could have used the Lincoln 4.6 DOHC that Ford put in the Lincoln two door back then. (I thought I read that there was 1) a space problem under the TBird hood and 2) Ford figured if they put that motor in the TBird, who would buy the Lincoln?)
The 4.6 mod engine will fit in the LS/Tbird engine bay, but it can't be installed from the bottom due to one of the suspension components and that's required for assembly line production. If it had fit then I'm fairly certain it would have been used. It has to be cheaper than the one-off 3.9L AJ based V8, although you won't find a smoother Ford engine.
My comments on the motor were geared towards the 94 TBird model, not the 02/05.
The 3.9 is just fine in the Bird and LS. The one plus I like about the Bird and the LS is that there's more than enough power for normal driving and a few bursts back to my drag racing years.
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/10773/2006-lincoln-zephyr.htm
As for the Car and Driver review, I think the analytical quality is pretty weak, couched in reams of sarcasm. The very few objective measures cited aren’t that far off of those of the competitors listed, except for the Maxima SE and the Avalon Limited 0 to 60 times. (Frankly, I wouldn’t own a Maxima for a number of reasons, and I wouldn’t own an Avalon because I don’t want to deal with arrogant Toyota salesmen, and because I don’t like the stupid cover over the radio controls. My opinions.) There really aren’t any other objectives mentioned. You’ll note most of the negatives are matters of stylistic taste. The reviewer notes the high quality of interior materials and build; he then complains of the high dash cowl – a matter of taste. He slams the exterior keypad, saying that key fobs leave it anachronistic. Obviously, he’s never enjoyed the convenience of one – it allows one to leave the car running and locked when running into the 7-11 for a coffee; it allows one to leave their keys in the car when going to the gym.
Can it be compared to the LS? Obviously not. The LS is RWD, not FWD. Driving dynamics are totally different.
And the Accord and Sonata. Of course, you could argue the Accord or Sonata aren't in the same class ... but then neither are the Maxima or Chrysler, IMHO.
Interesting how, in all those listed in that article, the 3 "American" brands are the 3 slowest ... by quite a margin. I'm not bashing or anything ... just making an observation. I didn't even notice it until I was typing up this response.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Sometimes manufacturers seem to overlook the fact that your most common view of your vehicle is from the driver's seat looking straight at the dash.
Above posts are correct. The LS was a BMW/Audi competitor. The Lincoln Z is a fancy Milan/Fusion, which is an Americanized Mazda, and cannot be considered a sport sedan.
I still think it's a poorly written, poorly researched article. The sarcasm was kind of entertaining, though.
I will read the manual and am about 1/2 the way through now.
thanks again
Any suggestions? Anyone else with this problem?
SO what happens when the next LS debuts and it's better overall than the vehicle it replaces? Are you more perturbed over the fact that the "going international" plan didn't pan out, or that the LS name (well, more about it's spirit) will continue on another vehicle with another name?
Back then I certainly hadn't seen a Zephyr & very few had driven one. Well, now I have & they have. The reviews appear less than stellar.
Is Lincoln still seriously trying to. . . do anything? I had a real question in there regarding a younger demographic & other things, but decided it was, well, you know, typical of my bitter self, so I pulled it.
Talk amongst yourselves. Share here.
I'm looking for an LS hubcap to replace the TBird hubcap.
The TBird cap is 6.5" in diameter. Anybody using 17" chrome LS wheels, I'd apprciate if you would measure your cap and let me know if you've found a fit, and the type/year wheel your LS has. (One chrome LS cap that I bought is a bit smaller and will not fit correctly.)
One wheel guy over on the ThunderBirdNest says that the cap off the LS LSE wheel will fit, but I can't find one to measure.
Thanks.
Is the blend door something that's easily changeable, or must the dash come off? (I had to take the dash off my 81 Fairmont many years ago to change the heater core. I do NOT want to go through that exercise again.)