Lincoln LS

desertguy

"The only reason you retire the name is because it failed in the market."
Actually it was because Ford/Lincoln failed to market it!! They are doing the same with the Jaguar XType now. No maketing whatsoever, sales are off 50%.

logic1

You need to read some of the posts above. Ford is trying to leverage its global platforms. Unfortunately, that left the mid-size rear drive platform that bases the LS as the odd plaform out.

The Zephyr is not a replacement for the LS. Rather, it is a wholly new effort by Ford to compete with the entry level FWD near lux sedans along the lines of the Acura TSX and Lexus ES. The LS was definitely not aimed at those cars. The LS was more a US competitor to the 5 Series and MB E Series.

But Ford has Volvo. To make finances work, Ford is now going to use the next generation S80 platform to base a number of cars, including both the LS and Town Car replacements.

Designing cars is expensive. Ford simply can no longer afford to design a luxury car exclusively for the US market. With Volvo very popular the world over, and Jaguar holding the market slightly above the LS, that left the LS the odd car out. Does not mean there is a problem with the car as is.

logic1

Thank you. I am checking out Witt now.

donzi81

Well what they should have done was evolved the styling a bit. I can't tell one year from the other, and the car has been out for some time. They definitely improved the interior over the years and the final year is extremely handsome and well done. It seems only American car manufacturers retire, then resurrect names. Would Nabisco change the name of Oreos if sales were down 10%?? Keep the LS name, change the styling a bit and market it better. The price for the car was always its best selling point. I believe Ford makes the best sedans/cars out of the big three. I sure hope that their new models do well in the marketplace.

ANT14

The replacement, sort of...

Ford Media

brucelinc

Hmmmm.....maybe I won't have to keep my LS forever, afterall. There is lot to like here.

Glad to see the select-shift transmission in the specs. Also, if accurate, the 4.4 sure seems to develop its power at lower RPM. I wonder if the vista roof and 20" wheels will make it to production. Anyone besides me see a hint of Olds Aurora in the rear end styling?

Ant, if you need someone to try the concept out for a year before production, I volunteer!

heyjewel

Nice. And interestingly this is neither of the vehicles I saw at focus group. So now I'm thinking I must have seen 2 potential versions of the next (2008) Lincoln. Too bad in a way if that's true because they were different enough to be 2 different cars. (No, ANT, I'm not looking for an answer, just speculating) And I do agree that the rear end looks (too much?) like the last Aurora.

Also, I agree with another poster that we should ignore 'donzi81'. He is a troll from the toyota prius board who has a dislike of American cars.

qbrozen

I find it REALLY strange that you harp so much on the bland styling of the LS, but rely so heavily on consumer research reports.

Reason is, most of these consumer reporting agencies consistently put Camry, Accord, Civic, Corolla at the tops of their lists. I can't think of any cars that are more bland than those, in both style AND driving dynamics.

Only recently has the Honda managed to instill some performance in the Accord, and only this year have they finally given the styling the tiniest bit of spice.

ANT14

I do believe you saw the "other one", is there anything about the MKS that is similar as to what you saw? They do have some subtle details here and there, that resemble one another.

Also, the grill will be one of those last minute details that will be critisized. The thinking is, "Waterford for sedans, egg-crate for SUV/truck".

heyjewel

"I do believe you saw the "other one", is there anything about the MKS that is similar as to what you saw? They do have some subtle details here and there, that resemble one another.

Also, the grill will be one of those last minute details that will be critisized. The thinking is, "Waterford for sedans, egg-crate for SUV/truck". "

ANT: Second item first. Yes, after I followed your link above, I noticed I could also get to the release for the Aviator - MKX" It has the egg crate grille. I don't like it, though I like the rest of the MKX. The egg-crate grille is used on the Ford SUVs etc. Waterfall on Lincolns. WOn't be able to tell Navigator from Expedition with this thinking.

Now, to the sedan. In this focus group which met probably close to a year ago now, were 2 large sedans which I'd never seen before along with 6 or 8 which I recognized as cars such as the STS, DeVille, M45, LS430, and some I can't recall. I knew right off that the 2 new ones were Lincolns because mainly they had waterfall grilles, IIRC they both had this feature and they looked similar to the link u posted. They also had hi-tech looking headlights like the link u posted. They differed mainly in the profile and rear end treatments. One, which I think was larger than the other, resembled it's 500/Montego brothers in the rear and side while the other had a lot more flair. The side view sported a (perhaps over-the-top) joining of the rear door/window to the rear quarter panel. Very curvy here. And the tailights resembled the last Mark VIII or the new Aviator - IOW they ran across the rear deck. Very nice rear treatment in my book. The other was more sedate - like the Montego. Unfortunately, my money says if these were 2 versions of the same car that the more sedate one will see production mainly because I liked the other one a lot more. To me, one was a Town Car, the other a Continental. Ooops, I mean MKTC and MKC. :>)

ANT14

Yes that is about right, although some items (mainly the rear) will be altered...Not much though. Mind you, sometimes these research groups take place a few times. You might have seen the first round, opinions taken. Vehicle altered, then bring in another focus group, and do the same.

So the end product might differ from what you saw, if you were one of the first ones. The front mainly stays the same for the most part, the rear usually receives last minute touching up, although the interior will stay very much as is, and every bit as luxurious as can be made as well. Headlights are a big focus as well.

"the other" will be more sedate, that is correct. More upright in it's deameanor you might say. The MKS in essense is the sportier of the 2.

heyjewel

""the other" will be more sedate, that is correct. More upright in it's deameanor you might say. The MKS in essense is the sportier of the 2. "

Interesting. If I read you correctly, I saw one version of each of the new sedans rather than 2 versions of the 2008. I can believe that. This vehicle you've linked to does resemble the sportier of the 2 I saw. The rear door glass has a bit of a sharp curl. I must say though I am disappointed in the rear end treatment. What I saw was *much* better than this Aurora look alike. This car needs full-width tail lights. Like the Aviator. Get a theme goin. Some family resemblances. Not another tail treatment that reminds viewers of a lesser car like the Aurora or the Galant. Tell em I said so will ya? :>)

ANT14

Did you see the difference between Zephyr concept, and production? I agree, a styling theme needs to be established, although the thinking lately is to make each vehicle a bit different. As in...

Notice how hard it is to decipher (for some people) some BMW's from one another, or MB's for that matter? Lincolns philosophy lately is trying not to make them all similar but just have enough details that make people take notice that it's a Lincoln.

The grills, being one of those factors. Although I agree, the Egg-crate reminds me of the Ford SUV's, but the Ford SUV's, aren't in chrome. And on some trucks, it was honeycombs for a few years, while keeping mesh distinctively for Jaguar R- vehicles.

I like the full width tail-light treatment as well, that idea hasn't yet been abandoned. Although what you are seeing in this vehicle is about 90% ready for production as you see it.

div2

Notice how hard it is to decipher (for some people) some BMW's from one another

Well, it sure hasn't hurt Munich's corporate identity-or their bottom line, if sales figures are any indication.
In my opinion, Lincoln's problem is due to a total lack of focus. The suits want to appeal to a younger more affluent demographic one minute and the next they want to hang on to ball cap Paw Paw and his Town Car operating(you can't really call them drivers) pals. Look at Lincoln's advertising campaigns; just try and find a coherent theme. Travel well? Reach Higher? What's next, Geeze Gracefully? Putter Proficiently?
I loved my father's Mark VII LSC. It had looks and performance unlike any other Lincoln since-save the LS. Now it appears that Lincoln's mission statement is to tart up Mazda and Volvo platforms in order to duke it out the bottom rung Acuras and Lexus. A marque with Lincoln's proud history deserves far, far better.

pat

Hey folks ... we need to try a little harder to keep in mind that this is supposed to be about the LS. I realize there's not a lot left to say about it and that's why I've let a lot of the topic drift go, but I'm wondering if isn't about time one of you fires up a discussion on Lincoln's future over on the News & Views board. That's really a more appropriate place for most of the conversation that's taking place lately. Or maybe someone would like to ask pf_flyer to unarchive this fairly recent one: The future of Jaguar and Lincoln. Let me know if I can help.

pat

You folks will surely be interested in participating in this: Lincoln to go after Cadillac.

heyjewel

Well, way to kill a thriving conversation on a recently dead list. :>)

ANT- Did't you say you opened a new topic on the new Lincoln D3 sedan? Where to find that?

brucelinc

I never seem to be able to post a link within these sites but under "browse for vehicle" just leave "select model" in the box. Hit "go" and then click on "all Lincoln discussions."

Come on over! We need your input over there!!

ANT14

Under future vehicles, titled Lincoln MKS.

roderickg

hey are these products worth buying, i mean like wipers and filters and batteries and stuff because im like trying to keep my car like dealership handle. like not buying parts from everywhere just from the dealership?

lateralg

Whaaaat??

roderickg

are motorcraft products good thats the name of the dealership products. i want to know are they good parts?

akirby

Motorcraft parts are made by Ford and they came on your car from the factory. So yes - they're fine. Some parts are better and some are worse but you can't go wrong with OEM parts.

cdnpinhead

to the parts delivered on the car when it was new. Perhaps you think Fram makes better filters than the OEM. Autolite spark plugs are made by Ford. Do you prefer Champion or someone else?

Most who drive FLM products don't. If you don't like Motorcraft parts, you probably don't like Ford (Lincoln/Mercury) cars either.

I'm of the opinion that the guys who designed the car were better able to define the bits for it (filters, etc) than the aftermarket.

Others have a different point of view.

cwz

About to replace my 00 LS V8 Sport. Down to either a 06 LS or the MB C350 Sport. Both have their +'s and -'s Looking for others opinions and comments

akirby

If you can find an 05 model there's about $12K in discounts off MSRP available. That's hard to beat.

cdnpinhead

I doubt that you care (most don't, anyway), but the C350 is one of the few cars in the class that can be ordered with a manual transmission.

I've decided I don't really need the size of the LS (or 350), so am actually considering a C230 w/ a manual. The 3-series BMW will probably win out (for me), but a few weeks ago I'd have never imagined I'd be even remotely interested in any of Mercedes' offerings. But, the C series has a lot to offer.

As I'm sure you're aware, there's a lot of anecdotal "bad build quality, poor robustness of the design" stories out there regarding Mercedes, but perhaps many of the bugs have been worked out? In my world, discussion of reliability can't start until a vehicle has at least 75K miles on it -- everything prior to that is build quality or poor design/component selection.

And, as I imagine you've seen with your LS, the long-term reliability is there. My '00 has over 90K on it and has had only one significant mechanical defect, and that was over two years ago.

I'm sure you'll enjoy your new car, whichever one you decide on.

cwz

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes the BMW 3/5 are a good cars, but here in CA they are a dime a dozen and instead of joining the masses at least with the LS or C350 you stick out as a little different than the rest. I have 83K miles on my 00 LS V8 Sport it has had good reliability after the initial issues that J.Rodgers did me good by giving me an extended warranty.

fordforme

I think it may have to do with the fact that they stopped producing this model. My very close friend wants to buy the new Aviator and trade in his LS v6 with NAV. They offered him 15k!!! This for a two year old vehicle with 36k miles. I think that is less money than an Accord!! Are they nuts??

heyjewel

No, they're not nuts. I checked Kelley Blue Book and a 2004 V6 LS w/Nav and 36K on the clock in good condition is worth $15625 on a trade-in in my zip code. It's worth over $19K to a private party if he wants to sell on his own. And you're wrong, similar 2004 Accord is $13825. Now how come your or your friend couldn't do that for yourselves?

Next, I'd like to address your friend's wanting to buy the hideous new Aviator (MKX). Is he nuts? :>)

akirby

Actually it has more to do with the price drop and heavy incentives on the new models that last couple of years than anything else.

The cost of used vehicles is always relative to the cost of a brand new one at that time.

It also has a LOT to do with what's selling in your area relative to inventory. If your area is overstocked on a particular model then you won't get much anyway.

brucelinc

Exactly. In my area, dealers were advertising new LS V6s in the mid $20s in 2004. Two years and 36,000 miles later the trade-in of $15K sounds quite reasonable.

garsarno

Back in 11/04, bought my new 2004 LS, the only option being the Ceramic White paint for $21,500 with all of the rebates and dealer discounts applied. I have since added the 16" LS chrome wheels, the six cd factory radio, Sirius option and the LSE / 2006 front painted grille (all from e-bay motors purchases). After 36,000 miles, outside of adjustments to the transmission and air conditioning (under warranty), the car has been a pleasure to drive and own in Northeast PA. I also took the stock wheels and installed Michelin Arctic snow tires to all four wheels, not a problem in snow (what we have had, which is minimal this year).

rolo77

MILITARY OVERSEAS, MOVING BACK TO THE STATES AFTER 6 YEARS IN JAPAN, LOOKING TO BUY AMERICAN, AND WILL BUY THRU THE OVERSEAS PROGRAM, CURRENTLY ONLY DODGE AND FORD PRODUCTS
ARE OFFERED GM DROPPED OUT LAST YEAR, SHAME!! I LIKE THE ZEPHYR BUT NOT ENOUGH POWER. MY MAX RANGE IS 35K TO 40K,
DOES ANYONE THINK THERE WILL BE LARGE REBATES FOR THE LINCOLN LS DURING THE NOV 06 TIME FRAME, SINCE THIS IS THE LAST YEAR OF THE CAR. LOOKING FOR QUALITY/POWER/AMERICAN

NO DISRESPECT TO JAPANESE CARS BUT I WANT TO SUPPORT THE
AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

CHIEF

qbrozen

If there are LSs left on the lots, you can pretty much bank on there being big rebates.

commissionerpo

Friend,

First of all, I will admit my bias, up front.

I am an hourly Ford worker at the Wixom, Mi plant, where this car is made.

The only reason I do not have an LS, is due to the fact that I have 2 kids in college.

You may know that you can get up to 6K in rebates on an 05, if one is still available; there are also attractive incentives on the 2006. Add this to an A, X, orZ plan, and you are in the mid 30 K range, if you strip some of the high-end exotica, and keep the power, convenience, and driving essentials----what attracted you to the car in the first place.

The LS is a 'driver's car' which will thwart any European brand under $70K, in horsepower, features, and handling.

Not to be confused with the entry-level Teutonic brands, it is not simply a made-over passenger car, with a few performance features and luxury accoutrements, but a 'killer' car with world class handling and authority.

The 280 hp 8-cyl. with DOHC; and Variable Valve Timing adds to the low-end grunt, while winding up to great power in the top end.

I make the car, and see it every day. I want one, esp. for the punch it packs for the $ involved

Good Luck,

Jeff Potter
Ford Wixom Assy. hourly 28 years

[I have no affiliation with the Company's marketing efforts;p I just love the car]

jerseyguy1

What's the best deal anyone knows about on a new '06 LS. My local dealer has about a half dozen of them in stock and in addition to the $3,000 rebate to the customer is prepared to throw the $5,000 rebate to the dealer on top of that. How much better than that might a perosn reasonably expect to do? My wife has an '04 LS v-6 with the appearance package. Been a pretty decent car with a very service oriented local dealer. If I can get an '06 V8 sport for myself at a good number I just might consider it.

heyjewel

Chief;

Welcome home. ANd thanks for thinking that way - I do too. Bought a new LS 5speed in 2001. Still runs like new at 69K miles.

You should be able to get great deals on the LS. I don't know what they offer thru the overseas program, but you could almost assuredly get an X-plan pin from someone which would get you the car for right around invoice and THEN you can subtract any rebates etc that apply.

I hope you find one for a great price. The 06s are V8-Sport only, but that's probably the best model now anyway since they dropped the stick.

Enjoy.

heyjewel

Jeff;

Great to hear from you. And thanks for making a great car. My '01 LS is still like new at 69K miles.

I saw an article saying something like 'Wixom to be saved'. Hope it's true.

Best to you.

akirby

There is currently $3K in customer rebates and $5K in dealer cash but I thought that was for 05s only. You should be able to buy very close to invoice (even without X plan) minus $8K - or around $12K off MSRP.

A screaming deal if you ask me.

LS production is supposed to cease this summer (maybe earlier - sorry Jeff!) so there may not be any left by November. But if there are the deals should be just as good if not better.

qbrozen

The LS is a 'driver's car' which will thwart any European brand under $70K, in horsepower, features, and handling.

i love my LS, but let's be reasonable. An S4 would spank it for $50k, and so would an S60R at $40k. And that's jut off the top of my head. You could slightly amend that to say "will thwart any similary-sized Euro brand under $50k ... etc. etc."

cwz

Thanks Jeff for your comments and and keep building good LS's as the next one you maybe building could be mine as that is the direction I am leaning. A L/M dealer about 50 miles from me has quoted via email a 06 w/adjustable pedals and 6 disc cd changer w/Sirius for $32500. So might be able to get little more off with negotiations. Local dealers not very aggressive. MB dealer did not move off MSRP so screw them with their $10K premium they think the C350 Sport is worth over the LS, which it is not. You even have to pay $680 as an option for any paint other than white, black or red. No wonder MB has fallen all over themselves the past few years and BMW has taken over the German landscape. If you do not value your $$ and need a status symbol then buy a MB.

jerseyguy1

Stopped by my local dealer on the way home. Has all of his '06 LS vehicles marked at 33,500 - 33,900 with window stickers as high as 45,000 +. Almost feel guilty in trying to hammer him down even further. Took the opportunity to drive a new Milan with the V6. Not bad at all but with that car stickered at about 26K with no real incentives vs a v-8 LS sport, the only real decision is whether to buy any new car.

[Deleted User]

Some rust is normal on the muffler of a 3 year old car...you should see the INSIDE of it. It will likely last quite a while longer. It is an item you will expect to replace if you keep your car several years and do a lot of driving.

I don't know if the seat thing "sounds right." If it operates fine (smoothly) and the sound is even and not straining, it may be a normal variation. The passenger adjustment gets used much less. It may need to be run back and forth a few times. (Everything that works should be used regularly.)

cdnpinhead

SEVEN & OUT

Jeff,

I chose to respond to your post, instead of starting from scratch, because you appear to share with me the passion for the LS that I drive. I've driven it all over western North America & it's held up quite well. It handles well, which was the deal when it was introduced, and has held up quite well also. The fuel mileage isn't so good.

The "seven & out" line is to commemorate the seventh anniversary of the first post on this board. I'm going to go out on a limb here and posit that there won't be an eighth. There are only a handful of us who have been here the whole time, and some of us are more forgiving than others.

I was thrown to the curb in '03 when many things were improved on the LS, and the manual transmission was eliminated. My original concept was that six or seven years after I bought my car, I would have a variety of new LS versions from which to choose.

Yeah, right. They took away what I most cared about, eliminated most of the option choices, then flushed the whole car down the toilet.

Oh, and they're about to send your plant down the same hole. In March of last year I had business in western Michigan (Whitehall) that kept me through the weekend. I decided to drive over to Dearborn to have a look at the Ford Museum (as well as the River Rogue plant, or at least the portion that we could see -- F150 line (shut down over the weekend)). Anyway, driving over and back I saw the Wixom plant twice. I wanted to feel better about it, but I already knew I was going to have a different vehicle next time.

Thank you for building me a very fine car.

Ford has cut us all loose. My next vehicle will be either a BMW 3, a G35, a CTS, or a Mercedes C230 -- they all offer manual transmissions & they all handle well. I'm confident that whichever choice I go with will still be selling something similar in 5-7 years. Lincoln doesn't understand this concept.

That said, I share your passion for this car, as it was first presented. Thank you again for building them. It's a shame we couldn't have continued this for a decade or two.

Good luck.

heyjewel

Well, I guess it's official, Wixom is closing.

Sorry to hear it.

jerrym3

Does the 2006 grille come painted from the factory? What about the rear piece around the plate? I'd like to replace my 2004 grille with a 2006/light tundra metallic. (I get Ford retiree discount on Ford parts.)

I think they did a nice job on the 2006. The smaller looking grille and the restyled front facia mesh nicely. The elimination of the rear chrome also looks good, but I wish they could have modified the tailights.

Even withouut changing the facia, just changing the grille on my 2004 would make the front look better.

pat

The number of folks losing their jobs is staggering. I live in Norfolk - the F150 plant here seems to have escaped based on the popularity of the truck, but the local news has been obsessed with reports from folks who are losing their jobs in Wixom - it's really heart-wrenching.

akirby

Funny they don't mention the JOBS bank. Most of these workers will get paid at least 90% of their salary NOT to work anymore. Unless they change the contract.

The problem is they needed to do this years ago but kept putting off the inevitable hoping they could regain market share.

savetheland

Socialism is over for at least 15 years in the most of planet. But it still managed to survive in North Korea, Cuba and – surprise - in the heart of modern capitalism - in Detroit, USA. What I can say – it will not last long.