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Comments
KarenS
Owner's Club Host
However a LS Mania 2-East Coast is a definite possibility if enough people are interested. Jim Rogers is enthusiastic about having more of the Mania events so he would like me to get an interest list together. Timing would probably be summertime. I'm thinking possibly Washington D.C. area, perhaps the old Summit Point racetrack. Seems to be convenient to Southeast and Northeast folks. If interested post it on the LLSOC Message Board under LS Mania 2001-East Coast and here so we can start planning.
Brian
Hector
I humbly apologize to the group for the miserable start of the mailing list. I assumed(I know, I know!) that there wouldn't be a high volume of emails since we had the Edmunds board so I thought I would save everyone the trouble of signing up for the mailing list by loading it from the newspaper list. Bad move!
For punishment I will not drive my LS for the entire weekend and watch old episodes of Starsky and Hutch.
Brian
Brian,don't be so hard on yourself. I actually enjoyed it for a while. Based on the # of emails I was getting, I thought I had suddenly become wildly popular. Not driving the LS for a whole weekend is punishment enough, but adding Starsky & Hutch reruns?-too much. Instead I suggest you rent the Mitsubishi Mirage that I had at LS Mania (because they didn't have the Ford Focus I had asked for-wanted to see if it was as good as they say)
I'm close to trading in my 2000 Acura TL to trade up as I want a more potent driving experience as well as as somewhat of a more upscale feel in a car and I'm trying to decide if I'm making a mistake.
Comments appreciated.
Thanks, RLM from Boston
We loyal forum members and LS owners are trying to provide input and energy to improve all three. So far, it's been very rewarding, due to the efforts of a few dedicated forum members and some knowledgeable risk-takers from Ford.
I'm not in complete agreement with jnowski's post ... I'm uncomfortable with his steroetyping dealers, even though his comments fit many dealers I've dealt with. I'd like to see dealers participate in this forum. To do so, I think we need to create an environment friendly to them.
I believe that the dealer personnel he described are an endangered species ... largely due to the power and reach of forums like this.
I'll now roll back my chair & don my helmet and goggles.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference between a email discussion list and the message board is. I would have thought people would be more comfortable posting on the board than sending an email but the avalanche of email that was generated on the first day of the email list seems to negate that theory plus what was being discussed hasn't really shown up on the board. Is having an email list worthwhile, as long as I start it out with no one in it and whoever(whomever?) wants to participate can opt-in? What are your thoughts? I don't want to create something that is a) a pain-in-the-neck or b)useless.
So as not to tie up the board please send me an email with your thoughts to postmaster@llsoc.com
I'll compile them and report back before I do anything.
Thanks for your opinions.
Brian
The 'official' communication channels don't always work. Often, there are some wise thoughts that aren't allowed entry into the official channel. This forum is an opportunity for them to be heard.
Dick
As the dealer is the first impression people get of Lincoln, so is the saleperson the first impression people get of the dealer. I still deal with salespeople that think the customer is just an idiot wanting to be ripped-off.
I've also dealt with salespeople who have an intimate knowledge of the car they are selling. That's what made me buy the LS at the dealer I bought it from. She knew what she was talking about, was obviously enthusiastic about the handling characteristics of the car, and didn't try the "Get a great deal if you buy it right now" garbage that is too common. The entire sales process was very low-key and not pressured. I was impressed with both the salesperson and the dealer's handling of the sale.
Since then I found the salesperson has moved on, but the dealer still handles the sales the same way. Would I use this dealer again? Sure. The owner also drives a LS. Now if I could convince them that stocking a couple of manuals would be good....
Brian
Thank you for your response. It is nice to know the real cause for the condensation. In my post regarding condensation, I was merely repeating what I had picked-up from following this board for the past year. Shortly after taking delivery on my LS8 sport a little over a year ago, I had read about several people on this board complaining about headlight condensation. Someone stated that they were sealed units and should never show condensation. Shortly after reading about this condition, I too noticed the problem (I intentionally started looking to see if it occurred). In both instances, the condensation would not clear up. My dealer was very cooperative in replacing these units.
This board has proven its usefulness time and time again. While I would have eventually noticed the condensation problem, the board sensitized me to the issue and brought about a quick resolution. Now, Dick Cupka once again provides clarity to issue. Thank you board participants, LLSOC club members, Edmunds, and the folks at Lincoln-Mercury for contributing to fantastic ownership experience!
a. slightly,
b. moderately,
c. seriously,
d. totally and completely
misunderstand the meaning of jnowski's post? It seemed to me that he was commenting on the "lack of enthusiasts" in the topic, and I was simply responding that the topic is not an enthusiast's topic, per se. What did I miss?
I wasn't taking you to task for commenting. Extending the discussion perhaps. Dealers do need to have enthusiasts as salespeople, at least for those cars that enthusiasts purchase. It is a delight, albeit an infrequent one, to experience a salesperson that seems to be as jazzed about the car as you are.
It is true that the "dealer boards" are not enthusiast topics, but should they be? Does the enthusiast audience generally demand higher levels of service and knowledge than the average car purchaser to make the experience worthwhile? Does a dealer who markets cars to enthusiasts care more than a dealer who doesn't or take in more money than a regular dealer? Don't know the answers. It would be interesting to know what the dealers think. I know it has long been an adversarial relationship between dealers and their customers, not to mention the factories. Not sure why it is so. I also wonder why American dealerships are more so this way than the Japanese or German luxury dealers, at least from the limited experience I've had with the latter.
Thanks,
Medphys
I was contacted by phone by a Gene Angelino of the NJ branch of LSM. Their business is chiefly in modifying Mark VIII's. They don't really have any kind of defined program for the LS yet. He told me that he was eager to work up an LS, but had been unable so far to get one into his shop to work on. He did say that he had "played" with an LS that,I think, belongs to a relative. He installed a 73mm MAF sensor and a lower temp thermostat. He said that this really made a difference but if I'm not mistaken, we were cautioned in an earlier post against using a lower temp thermostat in the LS.
If you log onto their site, www.lincolnmotorsport@maxrpm.com, the home page has a thumbnail of a modified LS. I had thought that this was a sketch, but Gene informed me that this was a real car. We agreed on our dislike for most ground effects packages, but he was quite adamant that this one really looks good. It will be available in about a month.
Also on their site are photos and a downloadable sound sample of the exhaust system that they use on the Marks. Gene indicated that this could easily be duplicated on an LS at substatially lower cost compared to the Borla.
He talked some about the Mark VIII's that they do. In his words, "we turn them into 2-ton Cobras". There are Marks running around with Triton V10's swapped in!
He acknowledged that the Mark is obviously dead for now and that most of the mods are being done by "kids". At this point, I tried to pursuade him that he should get in on the ground floor with the LS. I told him about LS Mania and how many enthusiasts there were who were interested in modifying their cars. (By now, there may have been more LS's sold than the entire Mark 8 model run). I told him that in light of the forthcoming T-Bird, planned "baby" LS and 2003 Mustang all using a version of the DEW98 platform, it would behoove him to get into this. Especially in the case of the Mustang, it looks like they will be going to the Lima V8. We all know what the Mustang aftermarket is like, don't we.
That's about it. I was a little disappointed in the lack of product, but he does seem interested in the LS. He asked me for the the LLSOC web address and he knows about Town Hall, so who knows?
Would anyone like to volunteer their car for them to experiment on:)? They do have a shop in Las Vegas also. If mine wasn't leased, I would definitely go for at least the exhaust system and maybe the MAF.
Art
jnowski wrote:
After visiting some of the forums where car salespeople reside, i.e. "inconsiderate
buyers" & "Confessions of a car salesman", I'm not so sure that I would want those
peoples comments on this forum. They seem to have a very negative view of any
buyer who tries to get a decent deal on an automobile, e.g. calling customers
"grinders", "moochers", etc. Their main interest seems to be in tactics useful in
manipulation of the customer, and maximization of their commission. Actual interest
in the car itself is limited to sales/commission potential and almost nothing else.
They are NOT car enthusiasts.
akirby is entirely correct, although I suppose that I could have made myself a little clearer. My comment was directed towards the only apparent, (to my knowlege), car salespeople on Edmunds. I agree with everyone else that there are excepions to my "stereotypical" comments, although like most everyone else, I have met very few.
I too, was very pleased with my LS buying experience. My salesman was very courteous, didn't play games, and we did it all through the internet. But, without implying anything bad or unproffessional, he was not at the "enthusiast" level of knowledge about the car. Which is just fine with me, I do my own research and only expect a pleasant buying experience from my salesperson anyway.
jjfrye: If by your comment you are implying that I am "lining my pockets" by requesting people pay for membership in my club you are way off-base and I'm insulted by your inference. Since I started LLSOC I have spent 60 hours, on average, per week, on the site. I have also spent a considerable sum of money getting the site up and running. I won't dignify your comment by telling you how much because it is meaningless to you and to this board.
If people don't want to pay for membership in the club, guess what? It's a free country and no one is forcing them. If anyone feels that I'm way off base then I'll quit and someone else can tackle all this work. I doubt anyone else out there is willing to sacrifice this much time for a car. And if people want me to stop posting, then I'll do that too. This is all a labor of love for me and my LS. I'm not doing it as an "opportunity to line my pockets".
Brian
The annual dues for the two major '94-'96 Chevy Impala SS Owner's Clubs--NAISSO and ISSCA--are each $40. ISSCA just starting printing their bi-monthly magazine. Very nice 24 page glossy b&w and color. Check out the NAISSO web site. These things take time and cost money. No one would or should do it for free. I don't think any of the people responsible for these groups is lining their pockets. They are providing a valuable service that people willingly pay for. LS owners should do same for their club. Count me in.
If poll responses are limited to dues-paying members, the validity of the results increases substantially.
Where do I send my $35.00?
Don't ask me how, but I've managed to get two different presentations of this forum. One has the user name at the beginning of each header and the other has the message number at the beginning. If you click on the user name at the beginning of the header you do not get a pop-up window - doing this gave me an email address for jjfrye with no other information. If you click on the user name at the end of the header (with the other format) you get a pop-up window with the normal town hall profile info. I think in one case I clicked on the Lincoln LS forum from the sign-in page top 10 list and the other I went through the subscription "check messages" feature. I'll see if I can reproduce it.
LS mailing list, about a mid-year new model.
As a pre-LS owner who is ready to convert over to
LS owner in anywhere from 0-6 months, I would
like to know if waiting some time gets me a car
that is 'X' times better?
BTW: For demographics, I am only considering the
manual transmission, and I just turned 33. I
think the buyer range that the LS covers is
amazing.
Also to follow up on the Dues subject, if you do
not have a paypal account, why not sign up and
give Brian the referral credit? I was a long time
member of the Eagle Talon (Club DSM) list. That
was free, but accepted donations, Todd Day did
tons of free work to help the community and he
is well respected and appreciated! I would stay
on LS club even becoming dues based, because
I realize the value this provides. Thanks Brian!
- Scott
I certainly agree with thomas_l. We can easily get used to getting all this info on the Internet for free. But someone has to work hard to create and maintain it. If the info on LLSOC is expected to be useful and timely, then we should expect to pay for it. Brian puts in a ridiculous amount of time into this effort and it is entirely unfair for us to take that for granted.
Joe
=================================================
This is James R. Healey's USA TODAY column, which appeared June 4, 1999.
Lincoln crafts unbelievable LS
GEYSERVILLE, Calif. - The thunderous cough of a modified, carbureted Detroit V-8 swept through the tunnel of trees, an overture.
Moments later, a 1970s Chevrolet appeared in the rearview mirror. The rate at which it filled the mirrors of the 2000-model Lincoln LS made it clear that the Chevy driver meant to overpower those in his way.
Two-lane blacktop, with unforgiving trees tight on the shoulders. No straightaway more than a few car lengths. Time to see if LS could do what Lincolns can't: go fast gracefully when the road kinks.
Then came a true 15-mph corner. Whump went the left front suspension as LS' weight transferred there, compressing everything compressible - spring, shock absorber, all the give in the rubber bushings.
Tires howled, suspension bottomed out, but the LS nailed that corner at a speed not contemplated by the highway builders and stayed in its traffic lane doing so. The Chevy shrank in the Lincoln's mirrors.
A sublime moment and a most convincing episode in two days of prodding the smallest, lightest, hippest Lincoln into compromising situations to see how much of the bad, old Lincoln philosophy remains.
Almost none, thank the engineers.
Here's more evidence: Jam the brakes violently. LS does not pitch forward. It hunkers, settles, stops, as if sucked to a halt by the pavement.
Good brakes, yes. But the disciplined emergency behavior also is a product of careful chassis tuning and weight management. LS is well-balanced, thanks to its rear-wheel drive and extensive use of aluminum - hood, front fenders, engine, suspension parts, trunk lid. About 52% of the weight is over the front wheels, vs. 60% or more on some rivals. That allows Lincoln to put atypically big brakes on the back wheels and make them work harder for better balance and more control in fast stops.
But drama isn't necessary to appreciate LS. Run it over San Francisco bumps or across the Golden Gate Bridge. The leather seats cosset properly; the gauges and controls are big, legible, simple.
It has a much smoother ride than the Jaguar S-type, its corporate cousin. Both products of Ford Motor, they were designed simultaneously, sharing a platform, expertise, some parts. But they are far different cars. The Jag got the styling and more powerful engines, but the Lincoln is better overall for $11,000 less.
The LS also feels more comfortable and controllable than German rivals BMW and Audi howling through tight corners, swerving around sudden obstacles, accelerating like crazy.
Yep. A Lincoln that's more pleasing to drive than a BMW or an Audi. Marvelous heresy.
The V-6 LS handles a little more precisely than the V-8 because the smaller engine puts less weight over the front tires. Although the V-6 is a marginal 210 horsepower, it had enough low-speed pep to handle San Francisco's hills without burning out a clutch or killing the engine.
The V-8 LS hardly is cumbersome, though, and its brisk performance makes it preferable. Its liquid cornering, bump-sponging chassis, hot-rod engine and comfortable seats made easy work of a gravel road so bad it should have been closed.
The Lincoln LS, in fact, seems unbelievably good, though that's less complimentary than it sounds. The unbelievable part is that it's a Lincoln. If those guys have been sitting around on the talent to do something as fine as LS, why have they been turning out wretched, floaty, ugly barges, simultaneously whining about a lack of younger, import-savvy customers?
LS is the car Cadillac Catera wishes to be. Here's the stunner: LS is bigger than a BMW 5-series yet priced like a 3-series.
Gripes are few. Wood trim is fake; LS patrons deserve a higher level of integrity. Cup holders are subpar. Surface finishes inside are a tad lowbrow for a luxury sedan. The styling, though restrained for Lincoln, seems overdone around the grille.
Overriding those, LS signals new light shining at Ford Motor. Significant clues are two overdue features previously blocked by Ford-think:
World-class automatic transmission. It shifts with an exquisite blend of instant precision and delicate touch found almost nowhere else. Ford had rejected such behavior for years, prejudging it abrupt, unseemly, annoying.
Separately switchable air conditioning. You decide whether to activate the air conditioning. It doesn't come on when you select certain vents, as in other Ford models.
Those two developments, banal as they may seem, signal a revolutionary shift. Plus, the philosophical overhaul implicit in moving from a Continental/Town Car/Navigator mind-set to an LS attitude is so severe as to be frightening.
But then, danger can be fun. Burn the place down, Lincoln.