Your right, in a high performance dual system the two pipes are always joined by a cross pipe, refered to as a H-pipe. This is needed to balance the system. Part of the fun in playing with the "black magic" of exhaust systems is to figure out the correct location for the H pipe. The length of this pipe can also be important. However your suggestion of using Y's is a good first order approximation to the problem. There will still be an optimum position to place the Y though. I've seen some systems more complicated that use two diagonal pipes to join the two systems. The Bosal page (http://64.45.61.64/) is interesting in that they talk some about tuning the exhaust to optimize both the torque and HP.
If you look at some note I put up on the club page under exhaust you'll see some data from test done on a Ford 289 cu in engine with dual exhaust. In general the stock muffler system is over restrictive and you can get improved torque and HP by making the exhaust more free flowing. In fact it is hard to go to far, but it is possible. The Hugo exhaust system is really not bad. The only thing would if we changed the pipe running from the Magnaflow to the Rhino to 3.5 inch diameter pipe. Then the cross sectional area would be the same as two separate 2.5 inch diameter pipes and considering what the Cats are we probably don't need any large pipe. The Flowmaster makes an exhaust that has a three inch pipe in and two 2.5 inch pipes out for the back muffler.
Well I hope to get through the testing progam by Christmas. All the information will go through the Club. I'm putting in the Hugo system but I'm going to use this Flowmaster in the rear in case I later want to change to the configuration that Otto described for the 300M special. (I would have to change the front magnaflow to the one with two pipes in and two pipes out and run more plumbing.) If the dyno shows that the torque goes down then I'll probably go back to the stock system. However considering what Otto described I imagine that the Hugo is going in the right direction.
but does replacing the exhaust system void any part of the warranty other than that covering the stock exhaust? Will the dealer blame the aftermarket stuff for any and all engine problems?
No it will not as long as the exhaust parts intall were designed for that function. No if you make a home made muffler, them they might try to make a case for it.
HI!! Glad you FINALLY were able to make SOME progress! A LeSabre is a nice car. Just has those BLAH looks, but maybe that will change now that Bob Lutz, from Chrysler, is in charge at GM!!
Don't you love those wheel controls? Not sure if they're like my 96 Riv, but I could change from AM-FM, scan stations, adjust the heating/cooling etc.
I have to admit, one of my favorite features of the M is the stereo system controls on the wheel. I can easily switch CDs and tracks, radio stations, volume, etc. without ever taking my eyes off the road. I really miss that when I drive my wife's car, or when I drive a rental without it.
i really miss that feature on my 2000, my jeep had it and it took me a year to quit pressing the back of the steering wheel...has anyone tried to convert to the 2001 wheel? is it possible? i think it would be worth the $$$. are the wheel controls only on the luxury group wood wheels or is this standard? i don't want the wood.
I don't think you can upgrade - seems to be part of the wheel itself. You may be able to buy a new wheel, but the cost would probably be prohibitive...
I found out about them by reading the manual - the sales rep knew only a hair more about the car than me :-p I was reading and came across it one night when my wife and daughter left to walk the dog. I run out in my robe to the car as they leave and they give me a look - I say, have to check something, and sit down in it. Was pretty funny...
It's standard and doesn't require the luxury group or the wooden wheel. However, I think otto chimed in once and said that you'd have to replace the control module, as the one used prior to '01 wouldn't know what the heck those buttons even did. I think 'doc said those modules were a LOT of money....like $1,000...so I doubt the change would be cost effective.
About 30 minutes ago it got cold, cloudy and windy, and this strange wet stuff starting falling from the sky. Kind of a mist at first, now almost like a gentle shower. I'm not quite sure what it is. Any ideas? I might have to do some research on the Internet to figure it out. Not sure I've seen this "wet stuff falling from the sky" before. Maybe I can name it. Hmmmmmm.
I checked the local archives. According to the records it used to happen here millions of years ago. It seem the wet stuff was called "rain". Plants seem to like it, but most people and cars don't. If you have any extra send it to me, I would love to see what it looks like, for the "archives" of course. Apparently Phoenix doesn't pay it's water bill to get any.
we had the same thing happen here yesterday and they said it might happen again today but it never came, i thought we would be killt' or even worse...it was total pandemonium.
dang control module huh? should have known...well i've put up with not having it for two years, two more won't hurt.
I did a little research and discovered that the two cars are basically the same size. Out of 10 measurements, including length, width, and front/back head/shoulder/hip/leg room, the LeSabre is bigger in 6 measurements and the 300M in 3. One is a wash. Most measurements are within less than 1/2 inch of each other, which would not be noticable. The main differences were in front and rear hip room, where the M was significantly larger (57.4 inches vs. 56.1 in front, and 59.1 vs. 56.6 in back). The LeSabre is a couple inches longer overall, but that's all trunk space.
We've now had the Buick for a day and really like it. Those big stereo controls on the front of the wheel are really fun, I wish our 00' M had them. Also, what we also really like is that speed-compensated volume. I myself thought it would be a stupid annoyance but have found out what a good use it serves. When we'd ride in the M, the stereo would always have to be turned up to hear it over the Crapyear noise but when you'd slow or stop, the radio would be to loud. Now, it's just right all the time.
As for the room comparison, I think the cars are similar. I do still belive that the M's more "low-slung" shape makes it feel a little tighter. For one reason or another, the LeSabre just feels like there's a lot more stretch-out room and there's a lot more headroom. Also, from riding in the back seat, I can tell you that while the 300M is barnlike on its own, the angles of the seat back and bottom make the seat a lot more comfortable, at least to me, on trips. It just feels bigger.
Not to mention, this car is so quiet. For us, it's about perfect; you hear a little rumble when accelerating from the engine but there is nothing in the way of tire noise. Nothing. In addition, it rides really, really nice. I think part of this is not only due to the suspension settings but also because of the 215/70/15 General tires on ugly aluminum wheels. This car would look almost stylish with some 16" wheels of a nicer design.
But most of all, love how quiet it is! I, and especially my mother will miss that the most when we get the re-constructed 300M back. It will seem like a tractor.
We still have no idea when the car will be done, but it will be traded as soon as possible (unless something else happens!). My mother still wants an SUV (at least she does today!) but doesn't know exactly what she likes the most or what exactly we can afford to lease. Overall though, she really likes the new 2002 GMC Envoy and that's probably what we'll look into more. I think they're pretty nice with the air ride and that 270-horse I-6, but am still worried about the build quality. What do you think? We want more room and a bigger vehicle but don't want something too trucky or cheaply built and not a van. Any suggestions?
I have heard people on this board talk about experiencing the "Light Show", where the M dash lights start flickering. Well, I seem to be having a "modified" Light Show limited to my radio. I have a 12 month old 2001 M with the upgraded stereo including the in dash 4 CD changer.
Early this week the radio/CD display started flashing on and off. If I just turned the radio off and back on, the problem was still there. If I turned off the ignition, waited a while, and then turned it back on the problem went away....until the next time I touched the volume control. I thought it might be a problem with one of my CDs in the changer so I got them out of there the next time the radio came back on line, but the problem persists.
As of now all I can say is that sometimes the radio functions correctly when I start up the ignition, sometimes not. If it is working correctly, then what usually starts the flashing is an input from the volume control (either wheel-mounted volume control or panel volume knob do it). One time when it came back all of my radio station memory pre-sets were also gone. Sometimes only the station display flashes and sometimes the flashing even includes the little lights on the graphic equalizer slide buttons.
Had no time to go into the 5 Star this week due to the holidays, but before I take it in next week I thought I would ask if anyone has any experience with this. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
Scotian - we've had a very little bit of that same wet stuff - however, we've been pretty thirsty and don't have much left to spare Of course I washed the cars two days ago and it'll have to happen...
The volume adjustment is a nice feature, my wifes S70 has it as well. But all in all I didn't like the car much. Had to test drive one for a giveaway, and didn't like the ride.
It was necessary to replace a Michelin Energy with 7K miles on it. The cheapest (oops, I mean least expensive) exact replacement that I could find in the Kansas City area was $186 plus the obligatory added taxes and etc. for a grand total of $218. It started out at $140, but they quickly found out that these tires were in short supply and rarely in stock anywhere, so the price went up from there. Did I pay too much? Should there have been a national tire store where the price would have been more reasonable?? Mike S.
Are you talking about the V-rated Michelin Pilots? If so, $200 isn't astronomical. My local Big-O tire guy and I were talking about replacement tires for the M since they sell Nitto and Yokohamas that have been discussed here, and he said that a set of replacement Pilots might run $1,000 (but he hadn't looked it up or anything). Hope that makes you feel better.
It's been snowing here since Friday night and it is still coming down, I've shovelled the stuff three times so far. Driving is crazy, but I have to admit that the M performs great and I do not have or want snow tires, as these all season Michelins do the job, you just have to have eyes in the back of your head for the other idiots who got their licences last summer and don't know how to drive in it. I could sure handle the rain, cause you don't have to shovel it!!!!!!!!!!!
No shoveling yet, but this is out my back door five minutes ago: white stuff. My M is sitting nice and clean in the garage (til tomorrow morning . . . . ). I'm itching for good ski conditions to arrive!
A man seeing flashing red and blue lights in his rear view mirror pulls to the side of the road. A minute or so after coming to a stop, a police officer approaches the car. The man says, "What's the problem officer?"
Officer: You were going 75 miles an hour in a 55 mile an hour zone. I'm afraid I'm going to have to ticket you.
Man: No sir, I was going a little over 60.
Wife: Oh, Harry. You were going at least 80! [The man gives wife dirty look.]
Officer: I'm also going to give you a ticket for your broken tail light.
Man: Broken tail light? I didn't know about a broken tail light!
Wife: Oh Harry, you've known about that tail light for weeks! [The man gives his wife another a dirty look.]
Officer: I'm also going to give you a citation for not wearing your seat belt.
Man: Oh, I just took it off when you were walking up to the car.
Wife: Oh, Harry, you never wear your seat belt!
The Man turns to his wife and yells, "For cryin' out loud, can't you just shut up?!"
The officer turns to the woman and asks, "Ma'am, Does your husband talk to you this way all the time?"
it sounds like an ignition switch problem or maybe the dashboard light intensity control---or then again it could be the body control module. We long time M'ers have a name for the problem: its called the "Christine Syndrome"---named by our fellow past M'er- Fastdriver---time for a trip to your 3*
Well for some reason ,when I try to login using Netscape I get an error message and cant get into Townhall .So now I must use I.Explorer to visit Edmunds. So now I'm back.
rdl40- glad to hear about your special order. We have just started building for retail customers this week . We actually built 7 on my shift Friday. The headlights are so cool ,gota love the HID. Your going to love this car.
The 300 for North America does not have the wire connectors for the side marker lights ,if you want to install them you have to do your own wiring.
300michael- sorry cant help you with the h/lamp sealer stuff.
I read a few posts recently about changing differential fluid. I went to my 99M owner's manual to look up when this should be done, since I have not knowingly done it, and the car has 35K miles on it. I drive it under Schedule A conditions. I looked at all the suggested service times/events and did not find anything about changing the differential fluid. I then looked under the B schedule, and they recommended changing it every 15K miles!! What gives? How can it be that important to change it every 15K miles on one schedule, and never change it on the other? Does anyone have an idea here, or is this another owner's manual error/omission like the one on the radiator fluid that the early 99 books said to change every couple of years, and the newer owner's manuals said the fluid was good to 100K miles? [Or the failure to even discuss the heated outside mirrors.] I have already had the tranny serviced at 24K and the worksheet did not mention the differential or differential fluid. Do I need to be doing this on my next oil change in 1K milles?
Second item. I was at the dealer's on Saturday looking to see if they had a Special in yet. It was mid-morning and the salesmen were prowling the lot in droves. They congregated around my M when I arrived oohing and aahing about its classy appearance. After they stopped drooling, I asked if they had gotten any 300M Specials in yet, and I was greeted by blank stares. What Special? A 300M Special? One of them finally went to the book inside the office and came out and said, "Oh, yeah, I found what you are talking about. We haven't seen any, and the note from DC says if we get one in it has to stay as a floor/demo model, and it cannot be sold. We will use it to get people to order others. If you are interested I will call you if we ever get one in." Now I ask you is that great marketing or what? Here is a pretty good sized dealership, with a 5* rating, and at least three salesmen didn't even know that the Special was available. I had to tell them what features it would have. What do you think the chances are that they will ever see one, or that anyone except people on this board are likely to even know about them? What a system.
My dealer recently went out of business (their service was great) so I went to another dealer. I told them I had the loose seat problem that 300Ms seem to experience and they looked at me with a blank stare. Later in the day they called me and said all was normal. I informed them that you have to drive the car and under acceleration the seat moves. I also informed them that there is a TSB on this problem and gave them the TSB number. Their answer was what's is a TSB? I give up. Im thinking of calling Chrysler and venting my frustration. I love the car just hate the service now available. I should have known better going to this dealer (Walton Chrysler in Skokie IL) When I was looking at 300M they refused to order a car with a full size spare because they felt it was not necessary. If I can't find satisfactory service I may have to give up on Chrysler.
I think your dealership is a close cousin to the one I've been dealing with here in NJ....Went there with a list of things--the 'light show' problem, seat moving rearwards on acceleration, etc. My 1/16th star dealer DID replace the body control module-2 times: the first time with a 're-conditioned' module (fixed @ the place of manufacture & then sent back..) with the light show STILL happening. The second module was a brand-spanking new one (so they told me..) and light show problem solved--so far. The seat movement?....someone else here said their dealer replaced some screws...mine replaced a 'bracket' ... Another poster here posted a TSB number back a bunch of postings.
Bigmike - I had the same question about the differential. My mechanic said I really don't need it, though another opinion would be nice. As for the dealer and the Special - I'm not surprised. Most of the salesmen I've dealt with are all idiots. They may be able to sell (some) but they don't know their own products! It's insane. I went to look at the Toyota hybrid because I was curious - thought I would get some info. I knew more than he did!
Quesion "How much to replace the battery system and how often should it be done since it's a hybrid?"
Answer" I asked the mechanic, said it should last about 3 years and costs about as much as a regular battery."
Um, yeah right!
Bobhex - best time to find another dealer if you can. I went to a place that was <2mi from my house and had a rental plan ($20/day if you had service, sometimes they'd cover it). However, it was always "couldn't duplicate" "couldn't find it" "We think we got it" Just stupid! There's a place I found near work that is huge. The service area is about 120' x 150' and 2.5 stories high - somewhere about 18-20 bays... Well, brought my M in w/o an appt - they fixed the problem same day (wheel bearing) and ordered a new steering wheel and seat bracket w/o any problems. They had told me up front that they'd prolly not have enough time for anything but the bearing (since it was dangerous to drive on) but were pleasant and easy to deal with. Had 3 diff. people, 2 of them service mgrs, ask if I was being helped when I was waiting for them to get my paperwork together
From what I recall from earlier posts, DC discovered that differential fluid was burping out someplace (?) and issued a TSB to use a lesser amount of differential fluid (and they started doing that at the factory with '00 model year M's), resulting in a need to change the differential fluid at 15k intervals. See post #9096, about here, by jj300m, which says, "For the 2000 model year, the actual differential factory fill was 25 ounces, not 32 ounces as stated in the owner's manual and service manual for 2000. According to TSB # 21-17-99 of October 1999, this predicates a change every 15,000 miles. The price of the recommended Mopar 75-W-90 is about $9.00 per quart; synthetics are explicitly not recommended."
I had mine changed at 22K, and I think it cost about $40. I've been real pleased with my dealer, Medved Chrysler. They've been very attentive and they've solved all of my relatively minor problems. One, a noisy driver's door window, took them a couple tries to permanently solve (ultimately replacing the window regulator), but I don't think one can expect that all problems will be solved on the first shot. Every time after I take my car in, I get a call from the dealership to ask how it went. They certainly convey that customer satisfaction is important. For those who have had unpleasant experiences, try another dealer. There are definitely real 5* service departments out there.
In my '99 M. Only problems were the left rear power window (dealer replaced all motors anyhow) and the "loose" drivers seat. I'm taking it in for that in the next couple of weeks.
Still have the original Goodyears, and I haven't experienced any of the problems mentioned with them. Tread looks like I've got about another years worth of wear on them.
No squeaks, no rattles, no leaks, no problems. It averages about 19 mpg around town and on our Thanksgiving roadtrip it averaged 26.6 mpg with the cruise set at 80 and slowing for small towns on the route (US69/75 thru Oklahoma). The return trip had a pretty blustery tailwind and mpg averaged 28. This is the best car in crosswinds that I have ever owned...just rock solid and not affected by strong crosswinds.
Yes, it's a bit noisy on concrete roads. On asphalt, it's pretty quiet. But on my previous cars (Prelude and T-Bird), once you got above 80 things took on an "urgent" feeling...the M makes it seem effortless. All in all, on a scale of 1 to 10 - this car gets a 9.99.
I saw the ad for the first time yesterday. I thought it was pretty funny, though a bit odd I can see how people could be offended (I mean there is a whole following who believes Harry Potter is corrupting our youth), but...
Can't please everyone.
Still think it's a gorgeous car - had one before my M.
My poor Christine. She lives on in "infamy"! ;-)) I like the "Christine Syndrome" description- weird things happening for no apparent reason. I wonder how the new owner in Providence, RI is doing with her? Probably fine since I think I fixed EVERYTHING when I had her! ;-))
ottowkr-
I usually use Netscape all the time, but when I read about the "cookie" problem in Talk To The Hosts topic, I decided to try and enter here with IE and I got the server error message, I went into the preferences and deleted the Edmunds cookies and tried again. NO problem. Just had to sign in again. YOU had the problem with Netscape and not IE. Strange. Glad it's working now.
I saw that Concorde ad several times this weekend. While I wasn't particularly offended by it, I did think it was pretty tasteless. WHAT do these ad people think of? Shock value? If they want that, they should hire Howard Stern since I think he's available now that his radio "show" is off the air! Took long enough! I don't think that ad was the reason for the "insurgence" of Concorde sales in the NE. I think it's the big discounts below MSRP and the 0% financing that has spurred sales.
bobhex40-
Don't waste your time calling "customer service". Call AUBURN HILLS! You'll get better and faster results! OTOH, that's what I found in the past. That might have all changed by now.
Does anyone own this headunit? If so, what are your thoughts on it. Its a 1.5DIN headunit that claims it will work with the factory steering wheel controls?
Do any of you guys know if this will work with the factory 4disc indash changer? If this one doesnt work, do you guys know of any 3rd party headunit that will work with the 4disc changer and steering wheel controls.
Hello all. I have been following this forum for over a year and a half (yes, I'm a lurker). This is the first time I have posted on a message board EVER. I enjoy reading this board and find all the info. you guys provide very helpful. SDMike, I live in North County. Been keeping my eyes out for Big Red...no sightings yet.
I own a beautiful 1999 (early build) deep slate/agate, chrome, upgraded stereo, with dark tinted windows (illegal in CA...but I'm brave...no front license plate either). I am just over 37,000 miles with no real problems except for a couple minor ones just recently. Did start to get the Goodyear shimmy at 28,000 miles. I replaced them with 245/45 Kumho Esta Supras and no problem since (nice tires, but you need to be sure to have both hands on the wheel when breaking on uneven pavement as the aggressive tread really grabs and follows the road). Got to try them in rain for the first time this weekend (bought them in May).
Here's my recent 5* experience (and these guys are the ONLY 5* Chrysler dealer in the entire county of San Diego). A month or so ago I had noticed the auto window down on driver's side was working only intermittently, decided I better get it to the dealer before the Mfg Warranty ran out. I was playing with the window button to determine if it was really a problem and I guess hit the button one to many times and it threw my window off track. Had been having the dreaded seat movement only rarely at first, but the past 6 months or so it had been increasing. I also decided to see if they would fix the horribly fitted window bezel on the outside of the driver's door. Actually, I think the fit and finish on all the windows is horrible and uneven, but this one actually caused the pillar on the driver's door to stick out 1/4" higher than the real door pillar. When I made my appointment I told them all 4 reasons I was bringing the car in. They kept it all day. I get a call at the end of the day saying they only fixed the window motor. Had to order parts for everything else and I would have to bring it in for another entire day. They couldn't even fix the window off track (said a "kit" was needed and would have just replaced the entire window but mine is tinted). They didn't even have the 4 bolts to fix the seat movement. On the service request they list this fix as a "recall". Curious as to why a dealer wouldn't even have these bolts in stock...do they carry anything? Not even a kit to fix an off track window?
I took the car back last week. For these minor fixes they had the car 2 days and it's still not done! Sorry, this post is getting a little long. To be continued........
(see this is why I have never posted...don't get me started)
The first time I saw that Concorde ad with the suggestive reference to conceiving in the back seat I knew it was over the top for the Midwest. My mother was also present when the ad ran & was too embarassed to explain it to my naive father or even discuss it with me (I'm in my 40's!!!).
Regarding poor Chrysler dealers, this is one thing DC MUST correct quickly because it is costing them sales. I bought my 300M from a 5*, but their service tech's are inattentive and sloppy with my car (e.g. interior grease spots both times I've had the car in). For my last oil change I decided to take it to the 5* Dodge dealer who has been servicing my Caravan. Much better service and the car was returned to me spotless! After all, the 300M is very similar to the Dodge Intrepid R/T.
Hey, if you've been lurking for a year you KNOW how long winded some of us can be..especially me! Don't worry about the long post. What part of North County are you in? I'm in Rancho Penesquitos, but I often run up and down the 15 between there and S. Escondido.
I think we have the benefit of several DC dealers in the county, so you should play them against each other like I did. I bought my car at Midway which is down in Mission Valley, but I also priced them up at the Escondido Auto Park (Jack Powell), Poway Chrysler, Rancho in Clairmont Mesa, and Carl Berger. I called Bob Baker in Carlsbad, but they couldn't come close to the price (and they're 45 minutes from me). According to the Chrysler site, all of these dealers except Rancho are 5* dealers. I've had good experience with Poway's service department with my wife's van and my M's electrical issue, and Rancho did my Bosch plugs for me. If you're not happy, just call a couple other service managers and tell them that you're unhappy with the one you're using, and you'll take it to them if (insert your conditions here). I've done this a couple of times and it works great if you play as the "frustrated customer of the competitor".
Hey, if I arrange a So.Cal 300M meet I expect you to be there! Join the club (www.300mclub.org) so I can contact you if I do something like this.
Isnt it strange that most Chrysler dealers are rated 5*. The day after I bought my car, I had them do a couple of small adjustments and put on an inspection sticker. They gave me pretty good service and mentioned to me that I would be getting a questionaire about service and they would appreciate a good recommendation. I did gave them a pretty good one. The next time I received service they knew I was diasappointed with the service. Did I get a quesionaire that time---NO. And I have not received a questionaire for then next 3 visits either. I think you only get a questionaire if they feel you were happy with their service.
My biggest negative feeling about Chrysler was that when I mentioned some creaks, the noisy driver window, and a few other minor things, the service writer said to me with a straight face: remember, its not a Lexus or a Caddy. So I responded: but it IS supposed to be the top of the line Chrysler--and then I reprimanded him for even mentioning a competing brand. So much for giving then a 5* rating. Every time I go there I drop them down a notch. They are now about a negative 3!
About a week after my first visit to the dealer I received 3 separate letters, one for each part, telling me they had arrived and to call to make an appointment. I noticed the window bezel part was listed as rear window (should be front window). I called the parts department and much to his dismay...yes they had ordered the wrong part. I scheduled an appointment for 2 weeks later. In the meantime, I received more letters, again, one for each part, telling me that my parts arrived and such and such date and if I didn't make an appointment within 30 days they would be returned. I had to call and tell them I indeed had already made my appointment...stop wasting postage on the letters.
Had the car in last monday and left it for the day for the front window bezel replacement, bolts for seat movement, and window off track. I showed the service manager the window bezel on the rear passenger side -- the rubber underneath had started to hang out.
I had to take the courtesy shuttle home and I get a call at 4pm telling me the seat and window were fixed, but they couldn't replace the window bezel because some moron had ordered the part for a 2001 with the chrome (but they got the right door this time). He said the part was due the next morning and he also ordered a replacement for the rear door that I had pointed out. He asked if he could keep it overnight (like I had a choice at this point). I expected to get a call before noon telling me the car was done. I left the guy 2 messages telling him I needed the car by 3pm as I had plans. I get no call until just before 3:00 telling me they replaced the rear bezel, the but front bezel had arrived bent. They reordered and now I'm going to have to bring the car in again. I was in such a rush because I was already running late that I didn't really check over the car before I left. Knowing I had to take it in again, I figured if there was anything wrong I would deal with it then.
The rear bezel they replaced looks great. Fits perfectly but I noticed almost right off it was different than the original. The pillar and the real ovalish shaped inset on the back are separate pieces. The originals are all one piece. Also, the rubber trim that borders the bezel is a dull finish and the original is shiney. I was actually happy about this.....now I think I have a case to get all 4 replaced--the poor fit and finish on those were my biggest complaint about the car. No way a $30,000 car is going to have mismatched bezels. The service manager was pretty easy about replacing the first two so I don't think he'll complain, especially with all the trouble I have been through already. (I don't expect to pay a cent either)
First question: I'm thinking this may be a design change because of the poor fit with the original design. Can any of you with a 2000 tell me if their bezels are all one piece or separate fitted pieces? (I need to know this before I call the dealer).
2nd Question and a new problem: Yesterday my rear passenger door (the same one they replaced the bezel on) decided it would not open. It's the weirdest thing. Door lock works but the door just will not open. It actually will unlatch enough for the "door open" chime/symbol and the interior lights to come on during hard left turns (discovered this on my way to work this morning...thought I had a Christine thing going for a while). I think I remember someone on this board had a similar problem. Any ideas? I would really like to make sure they have any possible parts in stock before I take the car in.
Oh yeah, they also put a 3/4 inch long scratch down to the primer on one of my doors. I can't wait for the friently customer service follow up call I should be getting any day now.
Mike - I live in San Marcos and work in RB. Thanks for the tips about the other dealers. This is Jack Powell (how come they claim to be SD CO's only 5* dealer in their ads? -- maybe they're talking about Dodge?) I want to stay with this guy to get the bezels replaced, but if I have any more trouble I'll try Poway.
I actually bought the car from NC Jeep (5*). They have the most wonderful service there. I wish I could take the car there. The former General Manager is a good friend of mine. Someone had traded the M in after a 1 year lease. My friend was driving it. I saw it and wanted it. I took me a week to talk him into letting me test drive it. He let me sign it out for a 3-4 day "test drive." You should have seen the faces on the floor manager and salesmen when I went to pick it up. They couldn't believe he was letting me take it. I guess one of the salesmen, a service manager and the customer service manager all were interested it buying it. It truely is one of the best looking M's I have ever seen (I think it's the window tint). By the time the weekend was over I had read the entire owners manual and customized all the settings. Of course he gave me an amazing deal on the price.
sorry to hear about your poor service---I would think they will replace the bezel to match but dont know that they would replace all of them---bet they deny causing the scratch---once you leave the lot, I think they would give you a hard time---I wonder if that door locking prob is related to the child-safe feature--if it wont open from the inside, but opens from the outside then its just a matter of resetting the child-safe feature located on the edge of the door--if it doesnt open from the outside, then its a prob for the 2* to fix--- just stand up to them and make them earn their supposed 5* rating.
Why can't you take your car to the Jeep dealer where you bought it? They should be able to work on it for you. It's always nice to have friends on the inside.
Comments
If you look at some note I put up on the club page under exhaust you'll see some data from test done on a Ford 289 cu in engine with dual exhaust. In general the stock muffler system is over restrictive and you can get improved torque and HP by making the exhaust more free flowing. In fact it is hard to go to far, but it is possible. The Hugo exhaust system is really not bad. The only thing would if we changed the pipe running from the Magnaflow to the Rhino to 3.5 inch diameter pipe. Then the cross sectional area would be the same as two separate 2.5 inch diameter pipes and considering what the Cats are we probably don't need any large pipe. The Flowmaster makes an exhaust that has a three inch pipe in and two 2.5 inch pipes out for the back muffler.
Well I hope to get through the testing progam by Christmas. All the information will go through the Club. I'm putting in the Hugo system but I'm going to use this Flowmaster in the rear in case I later want to change to the configuration that Otto described for the 300M special. (I would have to change the front magnaflow to the one with two pipes in and two pipes out and run more plumbing.) If the dyno shows that the torque goes down then I'll probably go back to the stock system. However considering what Otto described I imagine that the Hugo is going in the right direction.
HI!! Glad you FINALLY were able to make SOME progress! A LeSabre is a nice car. Just has those BLAH looks, but maybe that will change now that Bob Lutz, from Chrysler, is in charge at GM!!
Don't you love those wheel controls? Not sure if they're like my 96 Riv, but I could change from AM-FM, scan stations, adjust the heating/cooling etc.
They are quiet!
Hope things continue moving forward for you.
fastdriver
I found out about them by reading the manual - the sales rep knew only a hair more about the car than me :-p I was reading and came across it one night when my wife and daughter left to walk the dog. I run out in my robe to the car as they leave and they give me a look - I say, have to check something, and sit down in it. Was pretty funny...
But they are very useful.
dang control module huh? should have known...well i've put up with not having it for two years, two more won't hurt.
I would disagree about the interior room. 300M's cab-forward design is specifically known rto produce as much interior room as possible.
-M
As for the room comparison, I think the cars are similar. I do still belive that the M's more "low-slung" shape makes it feel a little tighter. For one reason or another, the LeSabre just feels like there's a lot more stretch-out room and there's a lot more headroom. Also, from riding in the back seat, I can tell you that while the 300M is barnlike on its own, the angles of the seat back and bottom make the seat a lot more comfortable, at least to me, on trips. It just feels bigger.
Not to mention, this car is so quiet. For us, it's about perfect; you hear a little rumble when accelerating from the engine but there is nothing in the way of tire noise. Nothing. In addition, it rides really, really nice. I think part of this is not only due to the suspension settings but also because of the 215/70/15 General tires on ugly aluminum wheels. This car would look almost stylish with some 16" wheels of a nicer design.
But most of all, love how quiet it is! I, and especially my mother will miss that the most when we get the re-constructed 300M back. It will seem like a tractor.
We still have no idea when the car will be done, but it will be traded as soon as possible (unless something else happens!). My mother still wants an SUV (at least she does today!) but doesn't know exactly what she likes the most or what exactly we can afford to lease. Overall though, she really likes the new 2002 GMC Envoy and that's probably what we'll look into more. I think they're pretty nice with the air ride and that 270-horse I-6, but am still worried about the build quality. What do you think? We want more room and a bigger vehicle but don't want something too trucky or cheaply built and not a van. Any suggestions?
Early this week the radio/CD display started flashing on and off. If I just turned the radio off and back on, the problem was still there. If I turned off the ignition, waited a while, and then turned it back on the problem went away....until the next time I touched the volume control. I thought it might be a problem with one of my CDs in the changer so I got them out of there the next time the radio came back on line, but the problem persists.
As of now all I can say is that sometimes the radio functions correctly when I start up the ignition, sometimes not. If it is working correctly, then what usually starts the flashing is an input from the volume control (either wheel-mounted volume control or panel volume knob do it). One time when it came back all of my radio station memory pre-sets were also gone. Sometimes only the station display flashes and sometimes the flashing even includes the little lights on the graphic equalizer slide buttons.
Had no time to go into the 5 Star this week due to the holidays, but before I take it in next week I thought I would ask if anyone has any experience with this. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
The volume adjustment is a nice feature, my wifes S70 has it as well. But all in all I didn't like the car much. Had to test drive one for a giveaway, and didn't like the ride.
None of that "white" stuff that fell in N. CA landed near you did it? Keep that red beauty away from that area! ;-))
fastdriver
A man seeing flashing red and blue lights in his rear view mirror pulls to the side of the road. A minute or so after coming to a stop, a police officer approaches the car.
The man says, "What's the problem officer?"
Officer: You were going 75 miles an hour in a 55 mile an hour zone. I'm afraid I'm going to have to ticket you.
Man: No sir, I was going a little over 60.
Wife: Oh, Harry. You were going at least 80! [The man gives wife dirty look.]
Officer: I'm also going to give you a ticket for your broken tail light.
Man: Broken tail light? I didn't know about a broken tail light!
Wife: Oh Harry, you've known about that tail light for weeks! [The man gives his wife another a dirty look.]
Officer: I'm also going to give you a citation for not wearing your seat belt.
Man: Oh, I just took it off when you were walking up to the car.
Wife: Oh, Harry, you never wear your seat belt!
The Man turns to his wife and yells, "For cryin' out loud, can't you just shut up?!"
The officer turns to the woman and asks, "Ma'am, Does your husband talk to you this way all the time?"
Wife says, "No officer, Only when he's drunk."
Easyrider300M
rdl40- glad to hear about your special order. We have just started building for retail customers this week . We actually built 7 on my shift Friday. The headlights are so cool ,gota love the HID. Your going to love this car.
The 300 for North America does not have the wire connectors for the side marker lights ,if you want to install them you have to do your own wiring.
300michael- sorry cant help you with the h/lamp sealer stuff.
Second item. I was at the dealer's on Saturday looking to see if they had a Special in yet. It was mid-morning and the salesmen were prowling the lot in droves. They congregated around my M when I arrived oohing and aahing about its classy appearance. After they stopped drooling, I asked if they had gotten any 300M Specials in yet, and I was greeted by blank stares. What Special? A 300M Special? One of them finally went to the book inside the office and came out and said, "Oh, yeah, I found what you are talking about. We haven't seen any, and the note from DC says if we get one in it has to stay as a floor/demo model, and it cannot be sold. We will use it to get people to order others. If you are interested I will call you if we ever get one in." Now I ask you is that great marketing or what? Here is a pretty good sized dealership, with a 5* rating, and at least three salesmen didn't even know that the Special was available. I had to tell them what features it would have. What do you think the chances are that they will ever see one, or that anyone except people on this board are likely to even know about them? What a system.
The seat movement?....someone else here said their dealer replaced some screws...mine replaced a 'bracket' ... Another poster here posted a TSB number back a bunch of postings.
Good luck!
drpixel/Glenn
Quesion "How much to replace the battery system and how often should it be done since it's a hybrid?"
Answer" I asked the mechanic, said it should last about 3 years and costs about as much as a regular battery."
Um, yeah right!
Bobhex - best time to find another dealer if you can. I went to a place that was <2mi from my house and had a rental plan ($20/day if you had service, sometimes they'd cover it). However, it was always "couldn't duplicate" "couldn't find it" "We think we got it" Just stupid! There's a place I found near work that is huge. The service area is about 120' x 150' and 2.5 stories high - somewhere about 18-20 bays... Well, brought my M in w/o an appt - they fixed the problem same day (wheel bearing) and ordered a new steering wheel and seat bracket w/o any problems. They had told me up front that they'd prolly not have enough time for anything but the bearing (since it was dangerous to drive on) but were pleasant and easy to deal with. Had 3 diff. people, 2 of them service mgrs, ask if I was being helped when I was waiting for them to get my paperwork together
I had mine changed at 22K, and I think it cost about $40. I've been real pleased with my dealer, Medved Chrysler. They've been very attentive and they've solved all of my relatively minor problems. One, a noisy driver's door window, took them a couple tries to permanently solve (ultimately replacing the window regulator), but I don't think one can expect that all problems will be solved on the first shot. Every time after I take my car in, I get a call from the dealership to ask how it went. They certainly convey that customer satisfaction is important. For those who have had unpleasant experiences, try another dealer. There are definitely real 5* service departments out there.
Still have the original Goodyears, and I haven't experienced any of the problems mentioned with them. Tread looks like I've got about another years worth of wear on them.
No squeaks, no rattles, no leaks, no problems. It averages about 19 mpg around town and on our Thanksgiving roadtrip it averaged 26.6 mpg with the cruise set at 80 and slowing for small towns on the route (US69/75 thru Oklahoma). The return trip had a pretty blustery tailwind and mpg averaged 28. This is the best car in crosswinds that I have ever owned...just rock solid and not affected by strong crosswinds.
Yes, it's a bit noisy on concrete roads. On asphalt, it's pretty quiet. But on my previous cars (Prelude and T-Bird), once you got above 80 things took on an "urgent" feeling...the M makes it seem effortless. All in all, on a scale of 1 to 10 - this car gets a 9.99.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Can't please everyone.
Still think it's a gorgeous car - had one before my M.
My poor Christine. She lives on in "infamy"! ;-)) I like the "Christine Syndrome" description- weird things happening for no apparent reason. I wonder how the new owner in Providence, RI is doing with her? Probably fine since I think I fixed EVERYTHING when I had her! ;-))
ottowkr-
I usually use Netscape all the time, but when I read about the "cookie" problem in Talk To The Hosts topic, I decided to try and enter here with IE and I got the server error message, I went into the preferences and deleted the Edmunds cookies and tried again. NO problem. Just had to sign in again. YOU had the problem with Netscape and not IE. Strange. Glad it's working now.
I saw that Concorde ad several times this weekend. While I wasn't particularly offended by it, I did think it was pretty tasteless. WHAT do these ad people think of? Shock value? If they want that, they should hire Howard Stern since I think he's available now that his radio "show" is off the air! Took long enough! I don't think that ad was the reason for the "insurgence" of Concorde sales in the NE. I think it's the big discounts below MSRP and the 0% financing that has spurred sales.
bobhex40-
Don't waste your time calling "customer service". Call AUBURN HILLS! You'll get better and faster results! OTOH, that's what I found in the past. That might have all changed by now.
ruski-
LOOKING GOOD!
fastdriver
Do any of you guys know if this will work with the factory 4disc indash changer? If this one doesnt work, do you guys know of any 3rd party headunit that will work with the 4disc changer and steering wheel controls.
Let me know. Thanks.
DJPILL
I own a beautiful 1999 (early build) deep slate/agate, chrome, upgraded stereo, with dark tinted windows (illegal in CA...but I'm brave...no front license plate either). I am just over 37,000 miles with no real problems except for a couple minor ones just recently. Did start to get the Goodyear shimmy at 28,000 miles. I replaced them with 245/45 Kumho Esta Supras and no problem since (nice tires, but you need to be sure to have both hands on the wheel when breaking on uneven pavement as the aggressive tread really grabs and follows the road). Got to try them in rain for the first time this weekend (bought them in May).
Here's my recent 5* experience (and these guys are the ONLY 5* Chrysler dealer in the entire county of San Diego). A month or so ago I had noticed the auto window down on driver's side was working only intermittently, decided I better get it to the dealer before the Mfg Warranty ran out. I was playing with the window button to determine if it was really a problem and I guess hit the button one to many times and it threw my window off track. Had been having the dreaded seat movement only rarely at first, but the past 6 months or so it had been increasing. I also decided to see if they would fix the horribly fitted window bezel on the outside of the driver's door. Actually, I think the fit and finish on all the windows is horrible and uneven, but this one actually caused the pillar on the driver's door to stick out 1/4" higher than the real door pillar. When I made my appointment I told them all 4 reasons I was bringing the car in. They kept it all day. I get a call at the end of the day saying they only fixed the window motor. Had to order parts for everything else and I would have to bring it in for another entire day. They couldn't even fix the window off track (said a "kit" was needed and would have just replaced the entire window but mine is tinted). They didn't even have the 4 bolts to fix the seat movement. On the service request they list this fix as a "recall". Curious as to why a dealer wouldn't even have these bolts in stock...do they carry anything? Not even a kit to fix an off track window?
I took the car back last week. For these minor fixes they had the car 2 days and it's still not done! Sorry, this post is getting a little long. To be continued........
(see this is why I have never posted...don't get me started)
Regarding poor Chrysler dealers, this is one thing DC MUST correct quickly because it is costing them sales. I bought my 300M from a 5*, but their service tech's are inattentive and sloppy with my car (e.g. interior grease spots both times I've had the car in). For my last oil change I decided to take it to the 5* Dodge dealer who has been servicing my Caravan. Much better service and the car was returned to me spotless! After all, the 300M is very similar to the Dodge Intrepid R/T.
I think we have the benefit of several DC dealers in the county, so you should play them against each other like I did. I bought my car at Midway which is down in Mission Valley, but I also priced them up at the Escondido Auto Park (Jack Powell), Poway Chrysler, Rancho in Clairmont Mesa, and Carl Berger. I called Bob Baker in Carlsbad, but they couldn't come close to the price (and they're 45 minutes from me). According to the Chrysler site, all of these dealers except Rancho are 5* dealers. I've had good experience with Poway's service department with my wife's van and my M's electrical issue, and Rancho did my Bosch plugs for me. If you're not happy, just call a couple other service managers and tell them that you're unhappy with the one you're using, and you'll take it to them if (insert your conditions here). I've done this a couple of times and it works great if you play as the "frustrated customer of the competitor".
Hey, if I arrange a So.Cal 300M meet I expect you to be there! Join the club (www.300mclub.org) so I can contact you if I do something like this.
-Mike
My biggest negative feeling about Chrysler was that when I mentioned some creaks, the noisy driver window, and a few other minor things, the service writer said to me with a straight face: remember, its not a Lexus or a Caddy. So I responded: but it IS supposed to be the top of the line Chrysler--and then I reprimanded him for even mentioning a competing brand. So much for giving then a 5* rating. Every time I go there I drop them down a notch. They are now about a negative 3!
Also, is the exhaust tone any deeper than the base 300M?
thanks, ron
About a week after my first visit to the dealer I received 3 separate letters, one for each part, telling me they had arrived and to call to make an appointment. I noticed the window bezel part was listed as rear window (should be front window). I called the parts department and much to his dismay...yes they had ordered the wrong part. I scheduled an appointment for 2 weeks later. In the meantime, I received more letters, again, one for each part, telling me that my parts arrived and such and such date and if I didn't make an appointment within 30 days they would be returned. I had to call and tell them I indeed had already made my appointment...stop wasting postage on the letters.
Had the car in last monday and left it for the day for the front window bezel replacement, bolts for seat movement, and window off track. I showed the service manager the window bezel on the rear passenger side -- the rubber underneath had started to hang out.
I had to take the courtesy shuttle home and I get a call at 4pm telling me the seat and window were fixed, but they couldn't replace the window bezel because some moron had ordered the part for a 2001 with the chrome (but they got the right door this time). He said the part was due the next morning and he also ordered a replacement for the rear door that I had pointed out. He asked if he could keep it overnight (like I had a choice at this point). I expected to get a call before noon telling me the car was done. I left the guy 2 messages telling him I needed the car by 3pm as I had plans. I get no call until just before 3:00 telling me they replaced the rear bezel, the but front bezel had arrived bent. They reordered and now I'm going to have to bring the car in again. I was in such a rush because I was already running late that I didn't really check over the car before I left. Knowing I had to take it in again, I figured if there was anything wrong I would deal with it then.
The rear bezel they replaced looks great. Fits perfectly but I noticed almost right off it was different than the original. The pillar and the real ovalish shaped inset on the back are separate pieces. The originals are all one piece. Also, the rubber trim that borders the bezel is a dull finish and the original is shiney. I was actually happy about this.....now I think I have a case to get all 4 replaced--the poor fit and finish on those were my biggest complaint about the car. No way a $30,000 car is going to have mismatched bezels. The service manager was pretty easy about replacing the first two so I don't think he'll complain, especially with all the trouble I have been through already. (I don't expect to pay a cent either)
First question: I'm thinking this may be a design change because of the poor fit with the original design. Can any of you with a 2000 tell me if their bezels are all one piece or separate fitted pieces? (I need to know this before I call the dealer).
2nd Question and a new problem: Yesterday my rear passenger door (the same one they replaced the bezel on) decided it would not open. It's the weirdest thing. Door lock works but the door just will not open. It actually will unlatch enough for the "door open" chime/symbol and the interior lights to come on during hard left turns (discovered this on my way to work this morning...thought I had a Christine thing going for a while). I think I remember someone on this board had a similar problem. Any ideas? I would really like to make sure they have any possible parts in stock before I take the car in.
Oh yeah, they also put a 3/4 inch long scratch down to the primer on one of my doors. I can't wait for the friently customer service follow up call I should be getting any day now.
I live in San Marcos and work in RB. Thanks for the tips about the other dealers. This is Jack Powell (how come they claim to be SD CO's only 5* dealer in their ads? -- maybe they're talking about Dodge?) I want to stay with this guy to get the bezels replaced, but if I have any more trouble I'll try Poway.
I actually bought the car from NC Jeep (5*). They have the most wonderful service there. I wish I could take the car there. The former General Manager is a good friend of mine. Someone had traded the M in after a 1 year lease. My friend was driving it. I saw it and wanted it. I took me a week to talk him into letting me test drive it. He let me sign it out for a 3-4 day "test drive." You should have seen the faces on the floor manager and salesmen when I went to pick it up. They couldn't believe he was letting me take it. I guess one of the salesmen, a service manager and the customer service manager all were interested it buying it. It truely is one of the best looking M's I have ever seen (I think it's the window tint). By the time the weekend was over I had read the entire owners manual and customized all the settings. Of course he gave me an amazing deal on the price.
Easyrider300M