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Comments
I am a fellow M-owner from central IN ('01 w/all options inc. PHG). No prob's in 19 mo. of service, but I do not put on the miles like you do.
BTW- Your dealer seems to be very considerate in not wasting your $$$. Is your dealer located far North, Northwest, or North/South side of Indy? No dealer names, please- I'll just guess :-)
Jon
I have an '02 Special in Bright Silver. I didn't drive my car in this last storm, but drove it in the 3 smaller ones before it. I agree that these tires aren't the greatest for this type of weather, but like easyrider300 said, if you take it easy, the car is pretty much OK. I used my auto stick for 2nd gear starts and basically was very easy on the gas. I allowed a little extra room and started my braking for turns and/or stops a little earlier. This car is about as challenging to drive in the snow as the '01 V-8 Camaro I traded to buy my Special. If you get in a panic type situation like if some moron pulls in front of you, I'll concede that there won't be a whole lot you can do about it on the Pilot Sports. If you can swing a set of alternate tires, that's probably the way to go. I'd love to be able to have a spare set of the 18-inch wheels with a set of good all-season tires, but that's a little pricy for me right now...
Good luck.
I have a 02 Special and have the same issue living in Minnesota (well usually, this year you folks are getting all our snow!). I took the route of getting a second set of snow tires for the car. In winter I swap off the 18's for a 16" winter tire package I got from the Tire Rack which includes Michelin Pilot Alpins.
The down side of having the tires swapped on the wheels is that you risk getting the wheels "skinned up" dismounting and mounting tires and the 18's are a challenge to balance. You have to be sure to go to a really good tire shop that knows how to handle those wheels & tires.
Hopefully by the time we need new rubber Michelin will have our size in the Pilot Sport A/S (All Season) model.
indydriver,
beespecial isn't exagerating, the Michelin Pilot Sports are pure summer rubber. On snow and ice they're like teflon on teflon. Your tires are all season rubber so getting around on them isn't a problem even of they are worn.
The rubber compound and the siping is what makes the difference. The Sport have almost no sipes and the rubber gets really hard in cold weather.
It's been awhile since I had the stock air cleaner parts on my car, but I seem to remember if you lift it out of the engine bay you will be able to see the indicator on top of the battery. You may be able to see it without removing the air cleaner, I just don't remember. With most of the custom intakes people are installing, you can clearly see the battery and it's indicator.
From past experience with OEM Chrysler batteries, I replaced mine when I hit the 3 year mark. The guys from Brampton confirmed it is only a 3year battery, which seems strange for a top line Chrysler with a lot of power options with little scheduled maintenace before 100K miles.
The OEM tires on the 300M Special are not 4 season rated. If you have never attempted driving on snow with tires like this you don't have a clue what it is like. "Teflon on teflon" is a good description!
As kosh did, the best solution is a set of 16" wheels with winter tires of the same diameter as the OEM 18" tires. Michelin Arctic Alpins are a great choice; I would be leary of the Blizzaks as they tend to be a bit "squirmey" an a large car.
The end result is phenominal traction in the winter, and the preservation of the OEM wheels for summer use.
The car died several times unexpectedly on the road, no energy at all.
Dealer look at the car and found a short on a harness connector, he replaced the connector, then the problem continued, so the car was back into the shop, dealer found the turn signal lever with a short, he replaced it, two weeks later same problem, car died, no battery, no power steering, no power brakes etc.etc.
The car was for third time TOWED to the dealer, then they said maybe the battery has a short, no matter they performed several times tests to it, it always came out with no faulty codes, so dealer replaced battery.
Another week, and every time I had to turn on the lights or apply the brakes the car died!!
So again, towed to dealer, the fix ANOTHER BATTERY!!
Two weeks later, the car died again, this time they found AGAIN the harness connector and the turn signal lever with a short, so they replaced again those parts.
One week later the car died again, then they ordered a new instrument cluster harness and replaced it. No cure because after a couple of days the car died again, then they tested again the battery, and said it was Ok, but they decided to replaced it, because they said Chrysler was selling the cars (ALL OF THEM), with very bad batteries.
My son took out the car from the dealer with a new harness, new turn signal lever, and new battery, well the car died after two weeks!!!
I phoned Chrysler, and gave them HELL, they said they needed MORE TIME, to try to find the problem, the car was coming out and back to the dealer since July, so this answer from Chrysler was in NOVEMBER. and those guys asked me for more time!!
After I decided to tell them and the dealer I was going to sue them, they answered me, I can do it if I like it, ´cause they were not afraid, because they were working and trying to fix the car!
So finally, they replaced to more harness and the POWER CONTROL MODULE!
I took out the car from the dealer just a couple odays ago, the car is running but I had to take it to another dealer, to place everything where it belongs, because the dash is STILL out of place a lot of screws were missing, here and there!
Well I already had to visit twice another dealer (FIVE STAR ONE), but the car will be back on Monday, because NOW there are a couple of noises coming out from the dash, it seems some screws are not placed well.
They also had to replace the A/C dash control, because the first dealer broke it, and the car then had a vacuum leak, plus still having a terrible noise in the rear suspension, and also the first dealer damaged the steering wheel, and until today they are refusing to pay for it, because it´s very expensive.
I phoned Chrysler and let them know about everything, their answer:
We are sorry Sir. we can´t do anything to force the dealer to change your damaged steering wheel, because if they damaged the steering wheel it´s their fault, it´s not Chrysler´s fault, so the steering wheel it´s not cover under warranty for damages, same happened to rear shocks and wheel alignment!
The dealer screwed up the alignment of the suspension, don´t know why, their answer was, that they had to remove some parts to change the harness and the power control unit.
Anyway my son is still fighting with the new five star dealer to fix the car, Chrysler WASHED HANDS!
To hell with Chrysler´s warranty, dealers, batteries, etc.etc..
Chrysler sales, service practices stink!
So, don´t believe in their warranty, they still have a very long road to go for CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.
PS. I´ll rather pay for the fix of the car instead of wasting my time for Chrysler to repair it, or wasting it at court!
I have all the proves with me about their TERRIBLE SERVICE, (DEALER and CHRYSLER), so I´m showing it to everybody know, I´m also spreading the word, and telling every single POTENTIAL customer who wants to buy a Chrysler product, also I´m doing it to the dealer, because I´m spending a couple of hours at the dealer telling customers my experience with them.
So do not believe also in FIVE STAR DEALER PROGRAM, it´s a FRAUD!, so is CHRYSLER.
I just hope someday, somehow, a CHRYSLER EXECUTIVE will contact me, and then I´ll show him everything.
Somebody HAS to STOP THOSE PEOPLE!
They have to open their eyes and really care for CUSTOMER SATISFACTION!
SOMEBODY FROM DC READY TO ACT???
IF SO CONTACT ME!
Better buy a battery elsewhere, and if you can AVOID CHRYSLER, JEEP, and DODGE VEHICLES!!
BEWARE OF THEIR FIVE STAR DEALERS!!
couple of electrical problems with it so far.
Yesterday when I was driving I started hearing a
loud clanging noise coming from the engine compartment. When I opened the hood, both fans
were vibrating alot and hitting the shrouds. Has
anyone else had this problem and if so what is the fix? I already checked all of the mounts to see if they were loose or cracked, but they are
all secure.
Thx for info on battery. I looked at it briefly yesterday (too cold to work outside for long), and as I have OEM air cleaner it seems exactly as you say. Like 300michael, mine is almost 4 years old and seems ok, but I'm a little nervous as it sounds like they're only rated for 36 months.
Yosito--your experience w/your sons Neon is unfortunate. At least it sounds like the car should be under warranty. It would also seem highly likely that if you're replacing multiple batteries, that the battery is not the problem. The battery is but one piece of the electrical system, and it interrelates with other components. You may have much better luck if you take it to a different dealer for service or an independent mechanic. I'm not sure why you're posting a problem with a Neon here on the 300M board, unless you're just venting on all the Chrysler related boards. Good luck.
About the BATTERIES, it´s a FACT that CHRYSLER batteries are junk, DEALER and CHRYSLER told me and showed me SEVERAL cars (NEW and USED), that their batteries were having an internal short, because no matter that after performing SEVERAL tests to them, they showed NO FAULTY CODES, BUT the car suddenly was out of energy, and sudenly the energy was back, so I BELIEVED in them, and also saw SEVERAL customers complaining about battery problems; even the new car sales manager, complained about those batteries, so as you can see if they changed THREE batteries to my car from July to November was because something was WRONG with those BATTERIES.
Of course my car had also other electrical problems, BESIDES the BATTERY, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, and you are right about taking it to another dealer, that´s what I did!
No matter that I took it to a different dealer (A FIVE STAR DEALER), the car was not fixed at the first time, after another week with them!
After driving the car again we still found out the car still has some loose screws inside the dash panel, which are making noise, rear suspension is still making noise, and wheel alignment is still needed.
About my steering wheel, I´ll try to speak in January with the owner of the first dealer, (the one who damaged it) to see if HE will be more decent and replace my steering wheel, (I don´t think they will).
And if you want to know why I vented my problem here?
Well I vented it because I want you to know what´s going on with CHRYSLER BATTERIES ( MOPAR), as I mentioned it, most of them are junk, so try not to replace your battery with a MOPAR one, and if you still have one, go to any dealer and tell him to test it before your car dies.
And I also vented here the problem, because of the BATTERY a car can suddenly die, and after a couple of minutes it can run as nothing happened before, and that´s because of a faulty battery, a battery with an internal short, and of course I vented it also here to alert all of you about CHRYSLER´s QUALITY, WARRANTY, SERVICE, plus the terrible SERVICE PERFORMED BY DEALERS, including a FIVE STAR DEALER.
So let me insist:
TRY TO AVOID A CHRYSLER PRODUCT!
Go and make them perform the full test to your MOPAR BATTERY, BEFORE IT´s LATE!
You´ll be happier you did!
PS. Thanks for your opinion, and I just hope everybody will listen here to my experience.
BEST LUCK TO YOU PEOPLE, and a HEALTHY and HAPPY NEW YEAR.
:-)
Doing what you suggest might get things back close to original but the whole assembly will still have to be rebalanced when the summer tires are remounted on the wheels. The Special rims only use clip on weights on the inside of the rim, the outer weights are stick ons mounted behind the spokes, so once they're removed they're trash.
What you suggest still doesn't address the risk that the wheels will get scuffed up during the dismounting and mounting process not to mention the damage the wheels might suffer from the salt and road debris.
At $179 ea that's $716 for just 4 Pilot Alpins in the 18" size not counting the cost of mounting and balancing. The entire 16" winter package from The Tire Rack mounted, balanced and generic wheelcovers is around $680. Yeah, they look poor but they work great and allow the car to get around more safely which is the objective.
The middle ground is to trade the Sports for a high performance, all season tire but the choices are few and cost high for those.
So in the end the least cost alternative is the second set of tires/wheels and living with a somewhat ugly vehicle for however many months winter lasts in a given area. Like anything else, it's a choice.
When I ordered mine, I inquired about alloy wheels, and bought some very attractive 5 spoke alloy 16" wheels with Michelin Arctic Alpin tires, mounted, balanced and delivered for about $840.
I put stick-on Chrysler logos on the center caps,and several people have commented on my "optional OE wheels"!
When I got my second 300M, I replaced the worn out Michelins with Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice tires, also very good. My bargain wheels are now in their 4th winter and second set of tires.
Pster-You do not have to take the negative cable off the battery until you pull the battery out of the car , the cable has lots of slack . The only one you do need to take off is the positive one.
In the plant we only remove the batteries from above , we never take the fender panel off . yes it will take longer to remove one outside in the cold , but in the summer it would only take me 10-15 min to re and re a battery. But I guess years of practice helps .;-))
Well, you've gone beyond the required maintenance, so if the tranny is bad it certainly wasn't your fault. I have a relative who is a service manager at a dealership for a Chrysler competitor, and if they have a good relationship with a customer (i.e. you go to them for your maintenance needs) they will replace such things as transmissions and occasionally an engine that fails prematurely. If your tranny has indeed failed prematurely, which indications are that it has, perhaps either your dealership or Chrysler would be sympathetic to a complaint and could recompensate you to some extent. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but it wouldn't hurt to try if you had the time to write a few letters and make a few phone calls and perhaps a visit or 2. Just a thought. Good luck with it.
Being a bit miffed that I couldn't get the Alpins in the same size as my Sports, I fired off an email to Michelin and this was their response:
The 245/45R18 Pilot Alpin is slated for production early 2003.
Our part # is 76152.
Please check back with us in 30-45 days for a more current production schedule.
So there you have it. If you're a bit anal like me about what you want on your M, and you want the Alpin 45s, you'll probably have to wait until spring when you won't need them.
Thanks to all for the great info and comments.
I had to replace several sets of tie rods on my previous '88 and '94 Taurus cars. Also the wife's GV is having its second tie rod replacement today. Is this a common problem with front wheel drive vehicles? The GV has 135k miles, so I am expecting frequent repairs. My 5* told me it needed a new rack and pinion, but I took it to Pep Boys and they said there was nothing wrong with it. They did say the tie rod was bad and the power steering pump was leaking.
Who to believe? What a racket.
Silver
I´ll wait to see at least two more years before I´ll buy a new Chrysler product, yesterday I visited the VW dealer, today I´ll have to take back the car to the Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep dealer, hope they will fix the car before the end of the year.
Best luck to you with your batteries and your 300M
The Missouri New Vehicles Warranty Law, commonly called the "Lemon Law," protects buyers of new motor vehicles by enforcing the manufacturer's expressed warranty.
WHAT VEHICLES ARE COVERED?
All new vehicles sold or leased with warranty provisions are covered under the law, except for commercial and off-road vehicles, mo-peds, motorcycles and the non-chassis portion of recreational vehicles. Also included are demonstrators or lease-purchase vehicles as long as a manufacturer's warranty was issued as a condition of the sale.
A defect must affect the use, value or safety of the vehicle. The law applies while the vehicle is under the manufacturer's expressed warranty or up to one year after the date of delivery, whichever expires earlier. Some extended warranties are offered by the dealer or an insurance company -- check with your dealer.
VEHICLE OWNER RESPONSIBILITIES
New-vehicle owners must report problems or defects in writing to the manufacturer to use the provisions of the Lemon Law. The manufacturer must be permitted a "reasonable" number of attempts to correct the problem. Under the law, it is presumed that there have been a "reasonable" number of attempts to correct the problem if:
The vehicle has been in the repair shop for the same problem four or more times and the problem still exists; or
The vehicle has been out of service because of a warranty repair for 30 or more working days since delivery, excluding delays that are beyond the manufacturer's control.
If the problem cannot be fixed in a "reasonable number of repair attempts" the manufacturer can offer you a cash refund or a vehicle of comparable value.
Under the law, dealerships can deduct a "reasonable allowance for the consumer's use of the vehicle" from the refund. The law also stipulates that a replacement vehicle must be acceptable to the consumer.
REFUND QUALIFICATIONS
If after repairs are made to your vehicle you still believe the vehicle does not conform to the warranty, but the manufacturer or dealer has indicated that it doesn't believe you are due a refund, then submit a complaint according to the manufacturer's informal dispute settlement procedure.
Most automobile manufacturers have appeals procedures. These arbitration boards try to resolve problems consumers have with the manufacturer or dealer. The address and phone number of your manufacturer's consumer appeals or arbitration center are listed in your owner's manual.
During or at the end of the dispute procedure, the manufacturer may make a settlement offer. You must decide whether to accept the offer or try to get a refund under the Lemon Law by going to court.
What's the rotor have to do with it? You'd need to mark the wheel and tire such that the same tire was remounted on the same rim in exactly the same place.
We're not talking about swapping two complete wheel and tire assemblies here, we're talking about swapping two sets of tires on one set of wheels - removing a tire from the wheel and putting on a different tire. There is absolutely no way in hell that can be done without completely rebalancing the assembly every time. Tires just aren't that consistent.
Now if it was one set of tires between two sets of wheels then I could see marking the wheel and tire to line them back up again and perhaps getting away with it.
The wheel weights don't fall off, the tire tech removes them because he knows the assembly is going to have to be rebalanced once the new tires are installed on the rims.
I appreciate your encouragement to press for assistance on the repair. I will ask, and I've brought enough business to Chrysler and this dealer that they should at least listen. However, Chrysler has stood behind their original 36,000 mile warranty and the extended warranty I purchased (3-yr, 100,000 mile) and they have both obviously expired. So, as much as I hate paying for repairs, I have to admit that it would be purely an act of grace on Chrysler's part to participate.
Indy, I hope that your dealer or Chrysler will step up and help you out. It seems like a shame that you just missed out with your 100K warranty, but that's life I guess. Let us know what they find while they inspect it during the week--it's an intriguing problem, being that it's shifting beautifully while the code says the torque converter is no good...
Chrysler still insist about more time, the car has been back to dealer more than 8 times, and if we speak about time and mileage, I can tell you the car has been at the shop for about 8 weeks, and since July my son just drove it 750 miles.
The car is again back with another dealer, this time they are trying to eliminate rattles, noises, coming out from dash, waiting for rear shocks, etc.etc.
So far no more problems with the BATTERY or any electrical gremlin, now just trying to fix what other dealer damaged while "REPAIRING IT".
Well I do insist, take your car to the dealer and make him perform the test to your battery ( If it´s a MOPAR one), and good luck with your Chrysler products.
I hope that everyone has a fun and SAFE New Year!
Phil
Anyway , as long as you got it out thats all that matters.