Chrysler 300M

illini4

The 300C seems to be waking everyone up. How long has it been since we've heard from you? Brings back memories of you and ruski taking on jeffew!

hayneldan

IMHO the front end needs some work. Either the Crossfire (best looking) or the Pacifica (2nd best) looks a lot better than the concept 300C.

blonda

I showed the pics to my 14 year old son yesterday. He loves it (he was telling me a month ago that he'd like to have a Bentley so go figure). He also thinks it will be a real popular car along the likes of the Cadillac Escalade, rap stars, etc. (I have to agree as I thought the same thing myself).

It's not all that bad looking to me personally except for the grill. If it's going to be so prominent they should at least make it look a little more classy instead of the cheap, plastic-crate look. A little brushed alunimum, etc. would make a big difference.

On the other hand...I still love my 99 M and have no desire to trade it in for anything else at this time. Down the road...who knows. If they brought out that Charger concept I would probably have a change of heart.

fuzzywuzzy

I didn't take them. I forgot my camara It was a little hard to see detals with the car being on a platform. The interior looks nice. Has alot of the 300M's feel to it. The car does look better in person as I suspected it would. This car is very big though. The front end is sooooooo wide & tall! I would think the car weighs ALOT! I didn't like the small narrow windows. It's going to be intresting to see how much of this car goes to production. You can tell it's very German now. It has Contential tires on it.
http://community.webshots.com/album/70492003xgKSmw

ruski

glanced in my rearview mirror and there it is!

ruski

http://www.truckpaper.com/images/truck/fullsize/70012486.jpg

ruski

ruski

kosh_2258

Assuming for a moment that may be a reasonable statement about the potential buyers, then I know I wouldn't want one.

The last thing anyone needs is to be driving along and having a car load of bangers pull up along side and want your ride, or worse, you, because they think you're a rival banger dissin their turf.

I'll keep my very UN-gangsta like M, thank you very much.

Ruski - fastest shutter on earth!

svevar

Though I originally posted in defense of the 300C, on second thought, now I see others' side of the story. Don't get me wrong, I still think the 300C is a beautiful car, but maybe not a good replacement for the 300M. I agree that it doesn't look as sporty as the M, and might be better as a Concorde replacement, or a New Yorker. For those of you who dislike the front end of the 300C (particularly the grille), maybe Chrysler will modify it for the production version. Remember the great changes between the Crossfire concept (which I found somewhat ungainly) and the production model (which, to me, is beautiful, if a little similar to the Audi TT).

ruski

actually I liked the Crossfire concept much more than the production.

scotian

Paint Shop Pro 8.0 is out the door. I have spent countless hours of my life on it these past many months, and haven't had any time to dote on Emmy, who just turned 70K.

My driver's door lock yells at me; I'll take apart the door. And I'll look into that seat bolt recall.

I like the new TH look, hate the 300C look.

pjyoung

I took my 99 in for the seat bolt recall and they told me that it didn't apply to 300M's...only the other LH cars. Odd thing is, the bolt's loose in my LH car.

emale

illini4,

i'm around, just haven't visited the 300m conference too much. just thought i'd drop in to see what you 300m folks are saying about the 300c....and, of course, figured i should submit my two cents worth!!

i can't say that i totally dislike the 300c, but i must admit too that it seems like a step backward both in functionality and styling.

kosh_2258

It's been said that when the well runs dry of fresh ideas that there's a tendency to recycle old ones.

There's been way too much of that lately with revivals of old TV shows and movies, in most cases badly done.

Now it appears it's happening with cars too. The 300C is by DC's own admission a return to the past, apparently because they ran low on fresh ideas to go into the future with. DC is trying to sell this thing to the public by telling us it's a modern classic. That's pure bunk.
Over the 10 model years the letter cars first ran none - not one - had a long hood and short deck.
If anything it was the other way round with the letter cars and most cars of that time period - long deck, shorter hood.
Not one of the letter cars was a 4 door until the M came along. And a hemi engine was only installed 4 out of the 10 years, the remaining 6 years had wedge engines. This is just marketing hype to convince the world the design is a good one and we should embrace it. Baloney.

I wouldn't mind owning a rear drive car, but would prefer one that leveraged current technology, not some conceptual throwback to 1955. Been there, done that. Sure, put some brand character into the product but don't just recycle a past design or thinking. The past belongs in the past and doesn't wear well in the present except as a short lived fad.

tnbob

My 2000 PHP M came with 16" Michelin Pilot XGT V4s. These are high performance tires. They have always been on the noisy side, but the handling was great. I am thinking of replacing them with the MXV4 Plus. Has anyone had any experience with these tires and how do they perform versus the XGTs?

llbean30

Hello fellow 300m fans, I just ordered the infinity basslink,(found it on ebay,from CAR STEREO 200, IN N.C.. $183.58 UPS GROUND).I've felt that the 11 speaker 360 watt system in my 2002 leaves a lot to be desired as far as deep bass goes.I did check the front speaker polarity, as per the post on the enthusiasts club ezboard website, and found them to be wired correctly.Any hints as to the best and easiest way to install the basslink would be much appreciated,ie: best way to run the power cable, colors of the speaker wires to tap into at the amp, and where to drill the mounting holes without hitting something vital.I really appreciate the input of the posters on this board so any help would be great.
  On another subject, I went to the dealer last weekend , and took a close look at the new PACIFICA, my impressions were , the looks are not bad, it has a lot of nice features, quality of the fit&finish is not improved over the 300m, and the interior seems very claustrophobic for such a large vehicle, and the front seats are very uncomfortable, also the engine(basically the same as in the 300m), is not up to the task of moving this heavy vehicle very well(it weighs at least 700 lbs more than the 300m).
   Thanks in advance for any helpful hints you can give me on the basslink install.
Luck to all--Jack

russklass

Did you actually DRIVE a Pacifica?
I have driven 3, and do not agree with your observations.
SEATS: 10 way adjustable, plus adjustable pedals. I found a very comfortable position in minutes.
CLAUSTROPHOBIC INTERIOR: The dark interiog colors may make it seem so, but try one with the Taupe interior, seems much larger.
FIT & FINISH: All 3 examples I drove were superb. Body was tight & quiet, road noise minimal.
To each his own, however.

intrepidspirit

I don't know if anyone caught the article on resale values of luxury cars in the 4/22 issue of the Wall Street Journal. It basically said what we all knew -- resale values of cars have been dropping like a rock over the past year. They gave some introspective reasons why luxury cars have been hit harder than usual.

At the top of their luxury car list for depreciation loss was the 2001 300M, which lost 27.1% from 3/02 to 3/03. Further down the list was the 2001 Lexus LS 430 which lost 23.4%, as did the the Saab 9-5. The Mercedes C-Class lost 20.0%.

However, if you calculate the dollars lost from the WSJ table, the Lexus lost $12,512, the Saab $7,261, the 300M $6,276 and the Mercedes $6,213.

Again, this demonstrates that resale values are unimportant in buying a car. A car is basically a lost investment once you have purchased it -- therefore the less you pay, the less you will lose over the years.

If I were a Lexus LS 430 owner, I don't think I would be happy with my lower % loss vs. the 300M (23.4% vs. 27.1%) when, in fact, it cost me an additional $6,236 in value. That's double the depreciation of the 300M!

Just my point of view...

scotian

So, are there any new and good 9006SX bulbs out there? I don't like the Eaglites. I may consider popping for new HIDs, but until then it would be nice to use something else.

Also, anyone making 300M model kits or toys yet?

fastdriver

WOW!!! Like the good old days- tons of messages to catch up on when gone for a week! Guess this new 300 design has struck a chord with many!

intrepidspirit-

You are a BRAVE soul indeed. I DID shudder a little when I read #3!! LOL..... Good luck.

llbean30-

IF I'm not mistaken, it was you who had the tranny fluid drain out. Happened to me too when my former 99 300M was 6 months old and I was 90 miles from home. Only thing is that I didn't know most of it had leaked out- while the car was sitting still for 3 days- until the following morning after I drove 90 miles home. Unless things have changed, you're only supposed to use CHRYSLER tranny fluid! Better check that out before something worse happens.

laurasdada-

Come on now. You KNOW where your money went!! Thank you says out state coffers! LOL....

ruski-

You had me going there for a second. I was wondering how you got to see a 300C in FL and I didn't! Then again, I didn't see you or fuzzywuzzy while I was there. I was even on the FL turnpike several times.

To all-

Off topic, but I'm interested in WHY you think the Thunderbird is going away again. I know that I most likely could find a T-Bird topic discussing this, but I don't know those people like I know most of you. Their opinions wouldn't mean anything to me. Forget that the car is small and a 2-seater etc. I know NOTHING about its reliability either. I'm just curious as to what you think is the real reason. I think it was overpriced and that's why sales slumped. Agree?

Thanks.

fastdriver

ruski

thecarconnection.com says that T-bird was overproduced and dealers couldn't sell it for the asking price.

They also said that there were plans to re-introduce it again, based on retro '61 design.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5965&sid=17- 3&n=156

fastdriver

ruski-

Thanks for the link.

fastdriver

intrepidspirit

I'm sorry I made you "shudder a little" when you found out about my new M (#3), but anyway, better you than my new M... (shudder, that is!) Obviously, I haven't had the misfortunes you have had...

About the T-Bird -- I actually was looking at it at the time I got my 3rd M, as the prices have dropped to the low $30's. My wife found it hard to get in and out of and uncomfortable to sit in. And from the reviews I read, it came across as a car that is cool to be seen in and little else to recommend it. With 280 HP it moves well, but does not handle well. One reviewer said it is not to be confused with a sports car. And it has a high drag coefficient -- .38 compared to .31 for the 300M and .29 for the Intrepid.

I think it's starting to lose its nostalgia value which may have been it's greatest asset...

kosh_2258

I happen to like the T-Bird but it is a very niche vehicle with only a limited market. I think Ford simply overestimated the stamina of the whole "retro" or nostalgia fad - and that's all it is is a fad. It's the same thing that happened to the Prowler and may eventually happen to the Viper too. You notice you don't see much mentioned about that car anymore either.

illini4

There's little to compare regarding T-Bird, and Viper from a business stanpoint. All Viper production for next year is sold out in advance, and they have always been in high demand.

300michael

You have to remember who is now incharge of the retro.designing now. It is MB. Chrysler retro = PT Cruser. MB retro = Brick.
PS I would not put the Concorde, New Yorker, or Imperial name on the car. Non of them fit this design eather. MB B500 fits better (B for brick and 500 for how many they will sell).

ruski

MB500 - ouch

intrepidspirit

I agree that the Viper is not going to disappear -- Chrysler gets a lot of hype out of the most powerful production car in America and it has more practicality than the Prowler.

In August/02 I recall seeing pictures of a 2005 Chrysler New Yorker. The article stated it was replacing the Concorde. It looked like a natural progression of the 300M, much more so than the 300N (or C). The hood, lights and grill were almost identical to the 300M.

I guess the biggest problem I have with the 300C is that it is NOT a 300. I might be more receptive to it if it were called something else.

ajpiii

After seeing the 300C, it got me thinking of whether the 5.7L Hemi Engine would fit in the M ? Im going to hit 100,000 miles next week, and the M's days of being a commuter car are numbered (about a year left). Instead of buying the ugly thing they are calling a 300, just take its best feature (Engine & 5speed Tranny) and drop it in the M... What do you guys think ?

BTW you can buy Hemi Engines here: http://www.hotrodlane.cc/

wire2

>...just take its best feature (Engine & 5speed Tranny) and drop it in the M...

If only it was that simple.
The floor pan has to be redesigned, due to the entirely different (and increased) stresses from the front/rear drive train. I believe there are some test vehicles getting lots of miles on them at this moment that are made with custom designed frame/floor pans with M body parts stuck on to make it into a roadworthy car.

pster

Thunderbird phase out: Quite obviously due to it being the ugliest "retro" ever created. This car exudes blandness and ennui. I don't think I've seen anyone under the age of 65 driving one. Apologies to the age sensitive. This is perhaps the first retro car that when you see it, you actually think its a 30 year old car and not a retro.

Resale Values: Quite obviously due to automobiles being consumer throw away goods. I am waiting for the economists to reclassify automobiles from "Durable Goods" to "Consumables". The day is drawing near when it will be cheaper to toss a car with a $2,000 repair bill and buy a new one. Witness television sets. Who would spend $150 to put in a voltage regulator on a $400 TV? Consumer goods are uniquely weird: the cheaper they get, the more they want to sell you long term warranties. Go figure that one out.

pster

I told you so.......

"With its new shape and noble proportions, the Chrysler 300C redefines the classic American car, while moving the Chrysler brand solidly into the premium segment," said Dieter Zetsche, Chrysler group CEO.

Dieter the Zieter is moving Chrsyler into the upper price point realms.....the 300C with HEMI V8 will be over $40M, easily. Any bets? I won't pay $40M for ANY car.

kosh_2258

Sure the Viper is a sell out and that's great, but it was mostly sold out to existing owners of the first generation Viper.
  
My point was: Maybe, at some point, interest in the Viper will fall by the wayside for any number of reasons. Will DC elect to continue it? Who knows, but I suspect when the next time comes to make the decision it will be more an econonic one with little emotion.

You don't hear much about the Viper anymore. This latest Viper has gotten nowhere near the ink in the motoring press the first one did, it's no longer a novelty.

And what about DC's involvement with NASCAR? I've yet to see anything that will be a suitable substitute for the Intrepid on the race track. If DC bails out of NASCAR, that will not really bode very well long term for the Viper. It signals that DC management places a lower value on this type of promotion and will probably elect to invest resources elsewhere.

No guarantee of that for sure, but this scenario has played out before in other companies with similar results.

kosh_2258

I know I've been vocal about the car and my less than positive reaction to but it finally hit me that it makes no difference really.

I've been appalled because of some sense of brand loyalty to Chrysler Corporation. But that entity no longer exists. The 300C is simply a creation of DaimlerChrysler with the "Chrysler" name on it. 20% (at least) of the car is Mercedes Benz.

The issue is: At what level of MB content does the car stop being a "Chrysler" and simply becomes an MB by another name? Thats all the Crossfire is when you get down to it. And how long will it be before the 300 is in that same position if it isn't already.

We who own a 300M are actually the last to own a true Chrysler letter car - one that was designed and engineered by Chrysler Corporation - regardless of whose watch it was created under.

bluesky999

Ruski,

Great pix of the prototypes. I think I like the prototypes better because 1)trunk space is more generous 2) ride height is higher affording a better view of the road and 3) tough-guy trucker styling.

fastdriver

A few hints about price-

http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0304/25/insiders-145858.htm

Curious to see how the 300C reliability will be i.e. speed senors, rubber window trim, flashing lights etc.

fastdriver

beespecial

I took a friend for a ride in my M today and she liked the visor plaques I installed to cover up the ugly warning sticker on the visor. She wants to get something similar for her S-10 pickup. Does anyone know an aftermarket accessory site that carries visor plaques for the S-10? PTWAREHOUSE.COM claims to carry items for all makes but I don't see anything other than Chrysler parts there.

kosh_2258

Well the problem is that the Chrysler side of the business has been doing a lot better than their German brethren in the areas of quality and reliability lately.

So having Mercedes parts on board may not be much of an advantage - maybe even a disadvantage.

indydriver

Thank you, Fastdriver.

indydriver

with all you naysayers, I'm going on record to predict that the entire LX family of vehicles will be very desireable and huge successes. We are entering the golden age of Chrysler/Dodge cars (you heard it here first).

Don't all you middle aged males get all tingly just thinking about that big V-8 and RWD in a modern automobile? And if the styling of the new 300 doesn't flip your switch, you gotta love the Magnum, right?

daytona3

I'm new here, but I have been following the forums for some time. Basically, I've been curious to see how the 300M community has taken to the 300C. It looks like I am not in the minority on this one.

The first time I saw the 300C, I could not believe what happened. I don't own a 300M, but I know for sure that I will not be buying the 300C (N) any time soon. I really don't care for it at all. From the looks of it, the interior isn't that great looking, save the wood trim and the gauges.

I will miss the LH cars for their nice appearance. The LX cars have not shown me anything yet.

300michael

I saw early pics of the Mustang III and fell in love with it, so of course they go with the ugly design for the new one instead. retro. I was hopeing that the Chrysler vehicles would continue, with their sleed futureistic designs. No. I hate to say it but if I stay in the MB/Chrysler family it will be a MB (maybe that was their plan all along). By the time I get rid of my M the 500SL's will be in my price range. Or a Nissan I35. A year ago I would have shot myself for even thinking this.
About changing out the engine. If needed a set of pp gears and other changes should help the current M stay right along with the C.

golfnut5

I am considering the purchase of a 2003 or 2004 300M. Does anybody know if the transmission speed sensor problem has been corrected on 2003 models. Also does anybody own a high mileage 300M (80,000 miles plus) and if so, what mechanical problems have you experienced?

dustinnewton

Interesting prediction. What is your definition of "success" as it refers to the 300C/LX line? The Hemi does nothing for me if it's not wrapped in a nice package. Would a supermodel still be a supermodel if she were ugly, yet still had a good heart on the inside?

scottjohnson

I just happen to own both a 300M and a 2002 T-bird. And I'm 45 so at least one person under 65 has one. It is my wife's daily driver and based on our experience, pster, your view of the styling is not shared by many. It turns heads EVERYWHERE we go.

The 300M is my daily driver and fits me much better. The feature set for the money is WAAAY better than the t-bird but it isn't near as much fun on a sunny day. Somehow the sunroof just doesn't provide the same effect as lowering the top. :-)

dukeofdallas

I own a '99 with 80k. I bought with 40k on the dial. My only problems have been the tranny sensors, a worn idler pully, and a minor A/C problem.

ruski

is your wife 65?

bluesky999

IMO, this vehicle beats the &%#$@ out of the 300C at a much lower price point. I also like it a lot more than the '04 Grand Prix. BTW, I trust GM's quality more than Chrysler's. Isn't it gorgeous?

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/2003- /naias/pontiac.g6/pontiac.g6.f34.500.jpg

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/83142/page012.html

bluesky999

I forgot to mention that the G6 is expected to be the replacement for the Grand Am. It will be built on the new GM platform that they are going to build Volvos and a ton of midsize and/or subcompact cars on. Oh, what eye candy...