Isuzu Axiom

paisan

VX does NOT have ISC at all. It has KYB or Bilstien external resivoir shocks and is built on the Trooper chassis so any lift for a trooper works on the VX.

-mike

yonku

My dealer had turned their back on me at the last moment! They don't want to do the change because of liability issues.....

Oh well, I guess I'll have to go to a non-dealer
to get the shocks replaced.

No report til then....

blackmadness

After re-injuring my back, and being 6'3", it now seems that getting into my Axiom is only aggravating my back pains and may have been what messed it up again altogether, who knows? So, with that in mind, I decided to try to see what would happen if I went to trade it in on something larger for better ease of entry to the drivers seat. I knew that it would not be a pretty financial picture, and was willing to lose a portion of money, but the dealer had other ideas obviously!

The salesman took my car to get a trade-in appraisal and came back to tell me that my Axiom that was just a few months ago sitting on the Isuzu lot for just a few bucks under $32,000.00, is only worth twenty thousand and change!! Needless to say, I drove home in my Axiom!! I could not believe it. I knew it was going to be an ugly situation, trying to trade a new car, but man I was not ready to hear that!

I wonder what I could even realistically sell this car for myself at this point?

Anyone want to buy a beautiful Axiom??!!

I just was left speechless.....

paisan

But if you read this board before purchasing we would have told you you can't sell Isuzus for Jack. Their re-sale is almost nothing. When buying one you need to plan to keep it for about 150-200K miles. It's a shame.

Side note, I'll give yah $21K for it.

-mike

blackmadness

Hi Mike,

I did know that resale was terrible, but I purchased the vehicle hoping I would drive it into the ground because I have heard Isuzus will last forever with little maintenance. I just wish this back injury would have resurfaced before I purchased though! Oh well, I guess I will have to drive it into the ground anyway!!

Oh well........

paisan

I hear yah. Why not just buy an aftermarket seat or seats? Surely that will be cheaper than buying a whole new car! Hopefully someone here or in the aftermarket section can jump in with some seat options.

-mike

drmp

I think the Recaro "Trend" has similar style to the OEM but recaro has multi adjustment.

- set back recline adjustment
- seat slider
- seat bottom tilt adjustment
- seat height adjustment
- extendable thigh support adjustment
- lumbar support adjustment

It costs 700-1200 depending on surface trim and options. Unfortunately, it doesn't come with adapters for Axioms so you have to fabricate your own adapter. Let me know on the update coz, I'll be the next to buy a recaro seat.

Good luck.

yonku

This morning, I had a non-dealer shop
attempt the shock replacement, but they
came back to me and said that they do not want to do it because they just could not predict the
consequences.

Anyone know of someone who actually understands and know the consequences of disabling the ISC system?

paisan

But you need to probably find a local speed shop or race-modification place. They will be the ones willing to tackle it, or a 4x4 shop.

Or you could disconnect the ISC cables yourself and just have a shop put in replacement shocks. Or you could do it all yourself. Apparently shocks are easy to do (although I had mine installed at a shop)

-mike

drmp

Of all ths SUV's and cars, this is the easiest to replace the shocks.

yonku

You are right Mike!
I am just going to unhook the connector on the ISC rear shock to see what would happen.
It can't be that drastic of a change.....

sbcooke

You should email arbusa.com. My OME shocks for my trooper are great. They might have some options available, or may offer to come up with one? At least it would be good to let a company know there is demand.

twocar

My Ax got egged about 3 weeks ago. Poor thing is in the shop for paint. Either when the egg impacted the hood, where I assume it collapsed in on itself, the edges cut through the paint or when the little bastards I caught doing it started to clean it off without water and maybe they rubbed it in. Anyway, that one egg is costing this kid that admitted to it around $540. Around $398 to paint the hood and blend the fenders in with the paint and another $140 or so for an SUV rental for 2 days. Isuzu's must have very thin paint!

paisan

Ever since the EPA required enviromentally safe paints they've been pretty poor on all vehicles across the board. The subie guys always complain of similar problems.

-mike

yonku

I unhooked the connector from the rear shocks yesterday and drove the Ax for about 30min. and so far only the little suspension
warning lamp came on , but that's it....

I think the rear suspension is fixed in the comfort mode dampening setting.

It rides fine with no other effects so far.

I plan to keep it this way for the next week or so just to have a better feel of disabling the ISC and then I will have to find someone to install the Tokicos....

yonku

The rear shock is fixed in a very stiff mode.

drmp

Take a look at this link and keep clicking at the "next" button until you see the seats. They are RECARO's.

http://auto.com/photos/gallery/2002/isuzuxsf/index.htm

blackmadness

DRMP,

Those Recaro seats look like they could make all the difference in the world on my back. I have no clue who or where to even go to find these seats in my area. This is something I would have to sit in and test out before I could order online, etc. Plus, I would have to find someone who would be able to install them for me. Any clues where to start my search?

I love the concept car in that red color. That was nice...

drmp

You should sit on BMW's with OEM Recaros to have a feel of it. If you are budget conscious, you can start to buy only the driver's seat. I think the cheapest way is to mail-order.

The OEM resembles more closely to Recaro "Trend" whereas the Concept Axiom had the Recaro "Style". Anyway, Recaro doesn't have standard bracket for Axiom so you should start looking at the yellow pages and inquire local auto upholsterer for the job of bracket fabrication and seat installation.

Good luck.

PS, My Passport, which has identical ergonomics as the Axiom, lacks thigh support which also gave me severe back pains on long drives. Now I have some sort of contoured padding to support the knee portion of my thigh.

drmp

www.recaro-seats.com/
www.superiorautotrim.com/2-Recaro.htm
www.speedwaremotorsports.com/seat/recaro.asp

joe_frm_kokomo

Thanks to your tip, Amigo_lover.

I actually copied all postings on the topic from this BBS into WordPad and printed it out and handed it to the dealer.

Fortunately, my Isuzu dealer in Ocala, FL has a very competent Isuzu tech, and he was able to duplicate the problem and correct it with a "release cable adjustment". Now, it works great!

I am still enjoying this vehicle's ride and features, even after 3800 miles...

reblfan

I have looked at all the invoice info on the car but was wondering how much dealers are willing to deal. I know the car is not selling well and the 2003s will be coming out soon so now looks like a good time to buy. I see where there is a $3000 customer incentive and up to 2.9% financing for 72 months. Can these be used together or is it either or?

Also, saw where the dealer is getting $3000 per unit plus $0-$1000 depending on volume. How willing is a dealer, on average, to pass along some of his incentive to add to the $3000 customer cash? I have seen some on this board get $7000 off.

I would appreciate any insight. Thanks.

paisan

Will likely not show up til Jan 03. If Isuzu holds to their usual new-model-year release scheme.

-mike

axiomlover

It is good to hear that you are interested in Axiom. Yes, dealers are very willing to deal, so do not buy until you can get at least $3,000 off of invoice. Make sure you do your research and find a dealer that is a volume leader in your area. It will be well worth your trip even if you need to drive two or more hours to a busy Isuzu dealer. It made a $4,000 difference in my case. Call Isuzu and find out, which dealership sells the most. If you ask a dealership, they all say they are volume leaders. Good luck!

reblfan

to clarify; at least $3000 off invoice and not $3000 off MSRP, correct?

thanks for the advice.

axiomlover

Yes, I meant $3,000 off invoice (about $26,900 for 4WD XS). It may vary depending on the region, but in Chicago, I got about $7,000 off of MSRP on my 4WD XS.

slocko

wow. i ended up buying the mdx, but i still like the looks of the axiom and the fact that it's unique because no one has one. I have only seen one on the road. I will continue following this board to see how it all turns out.

cb70

Just seen a few pics of it yesterday.

www.velocityjournal.com/cgi-bin/wi.cgi?i=5492

www.velocityjournal.com/cgi-bin/wi.cgi?i=4638

paisan

Hopefully they'll actually come out with it.

-mike

cb70

Words that were music to my ears-turbodiesel 3.0L V6.

http://www.autonews.com/files/concept2002.htm

Click on the pic of the XST.

cmuniz

Looking to install a hitch on my Axiom. Noticed that both Draw-tite (model #75093) and Putman (model # PH25169) make them specifically for the Axiom. Anyone have any experience with either of these models or any advise before I proceed? Thanks!!

k2rm

This past weekend I drove the Axiom on the same rough roads that I had travelled a couple months ago that compelled me to complain about the Axiom's rough ride. Two months ago, I had three adults in the back and the ride was extremely jarring and it often bottomed out. This time no one was sitting in back and the Axiom handled the roads beautifully.

It seems like the coil springs on the Axiom are pretty soft to give it a more compliant ride. Unfortunately, when the Axiom is loaded up, the springs are compressed making it easier to bottom out, even in sport mode, creating a very uncomfortable ride.

Because of the troubles Yonku has had trying to replace his shocks, I am going to purchase Coil-Rite airbags withing the next few days. These mount inside of the coil springs and can be inflated to increase the spring constant of the coils to counteract load compression. They are supposed to improve ride when a vehicle is loaded up.

I am just waiting for conformation that they have an application for the Axiom. Only one source says there is an application for the Axiom and they list it as the same kit for the Trooper, which surprises me since it is built on the Rodeo frame.

Does the Axiom have the same suspension components as the Trooper (not including ISC)? I would be surprised if it did since many offroad reviewers have said the Axiom doesn't have much wheel articulation and I doubt that has ever been said for the Trooper.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like installation will be too difficult. Air Lift has an application for the Axiom similar in design as the Coil Rite, but it doesn't seem to be as rugged. Anybody out there with any experience on the air suspension products?

paisan

For the purposes of that air-bag system they are the same rear springs. Basically on the Rodeo/Axiom the springs are shorter, but have the same diameter as the Trooper. A lot of Rodeo guys have been using the upgraded OME Coil springs to get 3-4" of lift on a rodeo whereas the same springs yield only 1-2" on a Trooper. So to answer your question the application for an airbag is probably the same.

-mike

paisan

Shocks will only help you to not bounce up and down several times off the bump stops. The springs are what cause you to bottom out. You might want to look into some OME rear coils for the Axiom/Rodeo platform.

-mike

sbcooke

Springs will push the wheels down further...raising the vehicle height, but I don't believe they will increase wheel travel. With "bigger" springs your wheels will only be able to go up more, and down will be further limited as it is closer to the maximum. Adding suspension spacers, longer links, etc. will increase the amount of travel. I am not sure an upgrade worth performing in an Axiom.

twocar

After having read the problems with the ISC suspension (and having experienced it myself with the bottoming-out in "comfort" mode with two adults in the back) I would think Isuzu would be hard pressed to resolve this problem with either an upgrade or modification to the existing software/hardware on the Axiom. This is obviously a problem for many while using the vehicle well below its purported capacity of passengers/load.

paisan

It's the SPRINGS. No matter how hard you make the shocks it won't effect your bottoming out. You need to upgrade the springs to a stiffer rate to not bottom out. Springs hold the weight, shocks only dampen them from continuing to bounce after the initial compression.

-mike

k2rm

I do believe the springs are the problem with the Axiom when it is loaded and airsprings offer the most convenient and flexible solution since they can be inflated or deflated depending on load. They even offer automatic systems to keep the ride hight the same no matter the load.

The website that I was looking at for the Firestone coil-rites seem to have a lot of conflicting information for the different applications. They have a downloadable PDF catalog that list the applications for Isuzu vehicles including the Axiom,

http://www.macsspring.com/website/catalogs/firestonecatalog.pdf

but on their order page none of their application numbers match up with their catalog listings.

http://www.macsspring.com/website/coilrite-catalog-truck-isuzuframe.htm

I am still waiting verification from them about the Axiom. Maybe I should just get the Air Lift system, several sites list an application for the Axiom.

http://www.truckspring.com/airsprings/airlift/app/isuzu.asp

paisan

But yep that's the way to go, if you don't want to get any lift, either stiffer springs or the helper air bladders will stop the bottoming out. Similar problem with stock trooper springs. I've upgraded to OMEs so it's not an issue anymore, but I hit the bump stops a few times when I had the stockers.

-mike

k2rm

seem to be a sign of the times. I don't think that it is solely an issue with Isuzu vehicles. All SUVs today have soft springs for a more compliant ride. GM has their autoride air suspension available on the triplets, Tahoes, and suburbans for the very same reason. My dad has a 01 Tahoe LT that came standard with autoride and the system works great for towing and hauling. It is also amusing since it is the first vehicle I have seen that breaks wind when it relieves pressure

Anyway, it does seem that the air springs for the Rodeo will fit the Axiom since Air Lift lists the same part number for both.

Thanks for the suggestions.

paisan

In Australia the Jackaroo aka Trooper and Frontera aka Rodeo get stiffer springs and Gas charged shocks from the factory. Interesting eah?

-mike

k2rm

I would imagine that manufacturers know that a high percentage of SUV buyers in Australia actually use the utility of their SUV's and thus they equip them with real springs. Here in the US, the majority of SUV buyers probably don't need the real utility of their vehicles (hence the influx of SMV's) so manufactures of real trucks only offer softer springs to compete. I guess they also know that true truck enthusiasts will upgrade their suspension components anyway.

paisan

I think it's mostly for the ride factor. A nice soft ride will sell Americans more than a tougher ride.

-mike

k2rm

I think part of the problem is having a car magazine testing trucks. Truck manufactures know how much americans believe what they read in these magazines and try to make their trucks more car like so the car reviewers will be happy. I always love how in truck comparisons they usually give the nod to the least trucklike vehicle. How else would you explain C&D giving 3 out 5 best trucks to Honda? Don't get me wrong, although hondas don't interest me, they do build good cars and it is obvious they will win against trucks when competeing head to head in car tests.

k2rm

I found this article about the Air Lift 1000 including installation. It basically describes the shortcomings of today's softer springs on SUV's.

http://www.truckworld.com/How-To-Tech/02-airlift-1000install/02-airlift1000.html

drmp

1. Limited suspension travel - frequent bottoming
2. Cheap dampers - cannot absorb sharp bumps but is ironically floaty.
3. Truck-based rubber stoppers - providing alarming jolts when it bottoms, as compared to air bellow-type rubber stoppers (used by sedans, carbased SUV's and pathfinders).
4. Body-on-frame - shaky/jittery ride.

I have a '99 Passport which has basically identical suspension as the Axiom except for the rear rubber stoppers, the axiom's rear have stacks of rubber doughnuts which I pressume is more refined than my passport's simple rear stoppers, but they're not as comfortable as the sedan's bellow-type stoppers.

In quest for more civilized ride, I installed Monoroe matic plus shocks which eliminated the float and provided excellent abnsorption on sharp bumps.

But it still frequently bottomed, so I increased the upward wheel travel by trimming the front and rear rubber stoppers and by doing a mild 1-inch lift.

I can now speed over bumps that I used to avoid without the "jolts".

tidester

I increased the upward wheel travel by trimming the front and rear rubber stoppers and by doing a mild 1-inch lift.

Do you think that will make a serious difference when you hit a "real" bump and bottom out?

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

drmp

There was a nasty asphalt hump at a highway that used to send me flying off my seat. After the modification, I was amazed that my passport gobbled it as if it was a small hump and without the big jolt. Hope that answers your question.

paisan

The reason that your pathy felt better was because of the fact that it's uni-body whereas the Axiom is body on frame.

What did you use to do a 1" lift on it? Just curious.

-mike

paisan

Sept 21

More info at http://isuzu-suvs.com/events

-mike