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Isuzu Axiom

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  • sowrsowr Member Posts: 69
    Sorry to hear about your problems. In my estimation, the chances of both the axles(?)and the drums being warped are slim to none. Although it does sound like a braking problem. Is more pronounced in the front or rear?

    My Axiom (4x4) has had no such problems.
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    I've got a 4x4 2002 Axiom with 17,000 miles on it and have not had any problems with it at all. Braking is fine although it seems to take more pedal effort than other cars I've owned. I'm not sure how you define "buffeting" but I agree that you need to have someone else look at it. Your dealer seems to be taking a hot gun approach to fixing the problem.
  • twocartwocar Member Posts: 95
    I'm not sure either what you mean about "buffeting" but the only thing I have ever noticed on my 2002 4x4 Axiom with over 24,000 miles is that at stop and go...like initially letting off the brake or applying the brake it feels like something is moving in the rear. I first assumed it to be the spare tire being loose and moving slightly, but it was tight. Seems to be more noticeable in "normal" vs. "sport" suspension setting. I only notice this from a dead stop or start. Not at speed.
  • twocartwocar Member Posts: 95
    Well, all, I had to really put my Ax to the test last night. I was trying to pull my boat from a really crappy boat ramp that had lots of dirt and sand and I less than desirable slope into the water. I put the Ax in low and noticed while my wife was trying to pull the trailer out that when the trailer "A" arms got hung on the sand/dirt shelf...the rear wheels would stop turning but the fronts would continue. I made sure it was in "low" and not "auto". The switch was in the "lo" position and the LED indicator showed all 4 wheels lit up without the "auto" indicator in the middle. Should our ax's do this? I thought when in "lo" the differential locked the wheels together and didn't slip vs. in "auto" mode.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The reason that you'll see slipping in the front v. rear is that the rear's are LSD the fronts aren't so you'll get slippage from the wheel in the front with the "least" grip. You were still getting power to the rear wheels, but because both had traction due to the LSD they didn't slip.

    -mike
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Did your forward progress stop or did the one front spin while you kept moving.

    TOD should provide a maximum of 50/50 depending on slippage and Low should provide a locked 50/50 front/rear.

    If your fronts were spinning, yet you weren't moving that sounds strange? That would mean all power was going to the front without traction?

    In theory 4 low should be 2/3 wheel drive at a minimum. In a very low traction situation, like ice, only one front wheel will spin (due to open differential) and both rears should spin or alternate power to each other (LSD functionality). The LSD in the Isuzu's is geared more for road travel so I have seen situations where only 1 front and 1 rear is getting power due to slippage, but never only front/rear. That would be a 0/100, 50/50, 100/0 setup?
  • twocartwocar Member Posts: 95
    Forward progress would stop and the front driver side would spin. Don't know about the other side as I was on the driver's side of the vehicle. Plus, I know it was in 4 low because I had to put it in neutral and hold the brake and disengaging it to get the taller gearing as it was in "creeper" gear when I first started out after getting out of the mess.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Sounds like it's working ok. I've seen similar situations before like that on the trail.

    Don't forget that we have automatic transmissions on these vehicles. You don't necessarily have to have the wheels spinning to dissipate the energy, you can have the torque converter sucking up that energy.

    -mike
  • icedog97icedog97 Member Posts: 141
    Our Axiom has about 4500 miles on it and lately I have noticed the issue that several people have mentioned as braking or shuddering/vibration.

    It's not very noticeable, but it does seem to occur when stopping (from 10mph to stop) and starting from a stop. At first I thought it was something with the brakes but then I did a little test and now I am inclined to think it is drive train related.

    I ran the Ax in both normal and power modes and it seems more noticeable in power mode. Let me also say that it only happens sporadically...so it's not something that seems like a big problem.

    Anyway, I was just curious what 'mode' those folks that are experiencing this problem usually drive in? You would think if it was a breaking issue it would be consistent, regardless of the power/non power mode. And if it were drive train related, you would think it would be more noticeable in power mode, right?

    I need to stress again that it does not happen often with my vehicle...but it does happen.

    Let me know what you think...thanks...
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    What you guys are noticing is the hard 1->2 and 2->1 shift exhibited by the 4L30E transmission. This helps to ensure a long life of the tranny by not wearing out your torque converter (the heart of your AT)

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just wanted to let you know that a bunch of Isuzu folks are going to be offroading @ the Uwharrie National Forest in Troy/Eldorado, NC May 17-18. Figured I'd invite the Axiom folks too, as this is gonna be a decent size group and we will probably do some of the novice trails. Camping saturday night at the Arrowhead campground.

    Check out the 4x4wire trailriding section for more details or post up here.

    -mike
  • twocartwocar Member Posts: 95
    Paisan, I don't think it is the tranny. If the "buffeting" discussed before is what I think it is after driving my Ax again it is brake related. I too have noticed the brakes feel like they are on a warped rotor or spindle. The pedal almost feels like it is pulsing under pressure and the more pressure the more severe the pulsating. Further, I agree with a previous poster who said the pedal travel is more than on other vehicles they had owned. The Ax's pedal travel is MUCH more and spongy vs. a solid feeling braking action.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Could definitely be true. It's always hard to tell just from words what the exact situation is.

    I did notice my brakes are slightly more travel than my subarus. But stopping hasn't been a problem, just took a 1000 miles to get used to :)

    -mike
  • icedog97icedog97 Member Posts: 141
    I'll start off by saying I am not very educated/experienced in the mechanical workings of a car...so some of what I say my be incorrect as far as terms go...that said...

    I definitely think I am experiencing something "somewhat" different than you are.

    I don't really sense a vibration as I am braking, I sense a "hop" (for lack of a better word) that occurs occasionally just before the vehicle comes to a stop. And then almost the exact same thing when moving from a stop.

    If I were to describe what seems to happen when moving from a stop (assuming it is brake related)...it's almost as if there is a delay from the time you take your foot off of the brake pedal and the actual separation of the pad...in that small span of time, the car starts to move forward but the brake has not released yet. That's the best I can do to explain it...

    The only thing that doesn't make sense is why it would happen during breaking...assuming it is break related...

    That's why I started to believe it it the drive train...there could be a small amount of "play" between parts that is noticeable at times...
  • twocartwocar Member Posts: 95
    I know exactly what you are talking about. Not only do my brakes vibrate and feel like they are spongy, but I also have had the sensation of something dropping or releasing before and after a stop. I had said earlier that I thought it was the spare tire being loose, but it wasn't. Since you described it again, it does seem to be like it is ratchet driven under the force of braking and then maybe releases on acceleration (much like seatbelts lock when you brake hard and release when you accelerate again. I have wondered if the Isuzu has what Subaru used to call and has reintroduced as "hillholder" technology. That is where the brakes hold the car in place until you push the accelerator. I think this was only in manual tranny Subarus, but I have noticed my Ax seems to sit perfectly still on an incline after braking and other vehicles I have owned would tend to roll backwards on a steep hill if the brake wasn't being applied. Something to think about that you brought up, but I don't think it is a problem, just maybe a less than ideally refined feature.
  • icedog97icedog97 Member Posts: 141
    A while back I almost bought those leather Axiom seats that were on ebay. Does anybody know if replacing the seats yourself voids any part of the warranty?

    It sounds crazy to me if it does...but you never know...
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My guess is that the seats aren't gonna be covered by much more than the 12mo/12K warranty anyway, so chances of them "breaking" are slim to none. I'd also think if you brought it in for a broken seat (power motor or leather surface) that you'd likely not be covered.

    -mike
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    Icedog97 - I experienced the problem that you mentioned and it was corrected by "lubing the slip yolk on drive shaft". That is a direct quote from a much earlier post on this forum and I mentioned it to my mechanic when I did an oil change several months ago. He knew what I was talking about, did it and it solved the problem. It is something that has to be done as part of the regular chassis lubrication. Try that to see what happens and let us know as it appears to be somewhat common.
  • bobo325bobo325 Member Posts: 6
    "Buffeting" apply the brakes and the car 'shudders'

    The problem is now in the hands of the Regional Customer Service Mgr.

    They have one more chance to get it right. If not, it's history. (And now the perforated panel insets on the front passenger doors are separating!!!)

    All this at about 8500 miles! I had a '92 Rodeo for 10 years and it was super. Our Axiom is a big disappointment.

    Spell it LEMON.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You do realize that it's extremely difficult to get your car "returned" under the lemon law. It's not like going to the customer service counter at the local walmart! :)

    In all seriousness, it's probably something rather simple to fix, your particular dealer is probably just not the best. I know I had to try 3 different dealers to get my mirror fixed on my trooper.

    -mike
  • icedog97icedog97 Member Posts: 141
    I actually spelled 'braking' as 'breaking'...yikes!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    No sweat - we're all fluent in chat typo around here.

    Steve, Host
  • annejoe1668annejoe1668 Member Posts: 9
    Hi, I'm new in this townhall.

    We live in the Bay area of SF, CA and own this Axiom 2WD for 18 months now. Since I have been driving front wheel drive for 18 years and this is my first time driving a rear wheel drive vehicle, I am not sure whether this has anything to deal with rear wheel drive in particular.

    What bothering me is that we had 2 incidents of "fish tailing" in the last week alone. By the way, including these 2, we had total of 4 times in the past 18 mo! First, I suspected maybe related to those 18K miles old tires. But since the first occurance happened when the car was 2 weeks new, most likely that's not the case.
    3 out of 4 occurances were very similar:

    1. completely stopped at stop light,
    2. started left turning at green light,
    3. by the time almost finishing the turn, the rear of the Axiom started spinning to the right,
    4. I needed to keep steeling left & right 3 to 4 times before it started going straight again.

    By the way, the road condition was wet for all four incidents.

    Any ideas / suggestion that you can share? Thx.
  • annejoe1668annejoe1668 Member Posts: 9
    You know what? Two of the 4 perforated panel insets on my 2002 Axiom's doors are also falling apart. I guess I am not alone!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That is perfectly normal for a 2wd RWD car in the rain. Unfortuantely you need to be more gentle on the gas on turns in the rain. :( Or you can start in "winter" mode in those situations that will make the car start in 3rd gear which will cause the wheels not to spin and then you won't get the fishtailing.

    -mike
  • bobo325bobo325 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the many comments.

    Yes, I do know that claiming LEMON can be an arduous process. Fortunately, we live in Georgia where we have one of the strongest LEMON LAWS.

    If they can fix it, great.

    I've had a lot of cars, and even raced a couple, none of them behaved like this one.

    We have the first meet next Friday.....I'll let you know how it goes:)

    Bob
  • annejoe1668annejoe1668 Member Posts: 9
    Mike,

    Thanks for your input.

    By the way, regarding what you said on #1614, we also experienced that kind of "issue". Now it sounds like it's a "feature" instead of an "issue". Is that correct?

    Joe
  • cptsessocptsesso Member Posts: 116
    Try replacing the stock Goodyear Integrity tires with just about anything else. They were definitely a very bad choice of tires by Isuzu. They probably got them dirt cheap. I have had the same thing happen to me a few times before.

    Now, whenever the roads are wet or anything less than dry, I switch to TOD.

    Go and read some reviews on these tires and you will see the terrible ratings they get.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah it's a characteristic of the 4L30E Tranny so yeah it's a "feature".

    -mike
  • tig2002tig2002 Member Posts: 81
    I found Isuzu Axiom Coil-Rite Air Helper Springs on eBay and wondering if anyone ever tried these on Axiom, and what the results are. I heard that the rear suspension of Axiom is very weak and the ride is terrible with load (never experienced or noticed on my Axiom). Will these springs solve the problem? Thanks.
  • axiombroaxiombro Member Posts: 1
    Hi: I am new to this town hall. I live in the Phoenix area. Just purchased a used 2002 Axiom 2WD model. Anyone have info on how to install a roof rack. The dealer sells them for aprox $320 and will install for an additional fee. Will it be a do-it-yourself type job or better to leave it to the "pros"
     
    lou
  • axiomloveraxiomlover Member Posts: 216
    I started noticing that dropping and releasing sensation when coming to a stop and then going forward. I am convinced that it is the fuel in the tank moving forward and backward, which creates a sensation of "something dropping and releasing". It only happens when my gas tank is more than half full and completely goes away when the level of gas in the tank gets low. Try it for yourselves and you will come to the same conclusion. Let us know.
  • k2rmk2rm Member Posts: 205
    Coilrites and the similar product Airlift 1000 are exactly what the Axiom needs to control the suspension under load conditions. I have an airlift 1000 kit on mine with an onboard compressor. Before the kit, the Axiom would bottom out frequently on rough roads if I was carrying two adults in the back or a load. After the kit, it has never bottomed out again. With the compressor, I am able to tailor the ride while driving depending on the road conditions. The front to back rocking motion while empty has also decreased.

    The problem is that Isuzu and other manufactures compromise load carrying ability for a softer ride. Kia, GM, and Toyota offer similar systems on their SUVs as options for this very reason. It would be nice if Isuzu did as well, but considering you can buy the springs for less than $100 dollars and compressors for around $100, it is a cheap aftermarket upgrade.

    I just wish there was away to increase the stiffness of the front suspension in a similar fasion without raising the front end.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Get sway away torsion bars. They'll stiffen up the front w/o raising the ride height, you can also go to a thicker front sway bar or poly bushings on the front sway bar.

    -mike
  • twocartwocar Member Posts: 95
    I am very disgusted with my Isuzu service as of yesterday. I left the vehicle all day for them to do absolutely nothing to it all day. But that is a dealer issue. I have noticed my tan and black steering wheel is turn black in spots on the tan portion...especially the lower tan part (between 4:00 and 8:00 for you military types). First real shoddy workmanship I have really observed. Ax has a little over 24k miles on it.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's tan, could it be dirty? I always like a grey interior cause it hides dirt better.

    -mike
  • twocartwocar Member Posts: 95
    No, Paisan. You can even feel some of the material rubbing off when you slide your hand over the wheel.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just checkin, see what the dealer says, they can probably get it replaced for you.

    -mike
  • k2rmk2rm Member Posts: 205
    Could you tell me more about the torsion bars? How easy are they to install? Where do you get them? Price?
    Thanks
  • k2rmk2rm Member Posts: 205
    TOD is amazing! I normally always have it in TOD when driving on wet roads as a precaution and have never slipped in the rain. Today I turned it off halfway to work and couldn't believe how easy it was to break the rear tires loose and fish tail with even modest attempts at accelerating. Kind of fun, but not safe. I knew TOD was working, but I didn't think the results would be night and day like that. I am very impressed!

    In 2 wheel drive the Axiom is definitely squirrely in the rain, definitely a trait of RWD vehicles with lots of power, but not nearly as squirrely as my 1970 chev truck with a 350. Probably due to the limited slip on the Axiom.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Not sure of pricing but in the $300 range.

    Installation is quite easy. Here is an explaination of T-bars on my webpage:

    http://isuzu-suvs.com/howto/torsionbarsexplained.html

    and step by step instructions

    http://isuzu-suvs.com/howto/torsionbarupgrade.html

    -mike
  • bobo325bobo325 Member Posts: 6
    Anyone know if the T Bar upgrade is available for the Axiom?

    Thanks, Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Should be the same as the rodeos. I believe Sway Away makes a rodeo one, check with Joe Darlington or Matt @ Independent 4x

    -mike
  • bobo325bobo325 Member Posts: 6
    For the Sway Away info.

    Bob

    PS Iksuzu Zone Mgr visited with my Ax on Fiday..."....we are effecting repairs....." No word as yet as to whether they have cured the braking problem!
  • sveltaxsveltax Member Posts: 72
    The "hop" or "clunk" is gone while coming to a stop or when starting out. It was done during the 15K service, $72.50. Some type of pressure grease is used. I tried to get the dealer to pay since it was not lubed correctly from day 1 but they said it was a maintanence item. $72.50 for the 15K service isn't bad! I get free oil changes at the dealer I bought my AX from.
  • icedog97icedog97 Member Posts: 141
    Concerning your message title...it almost sounds perverted...

    BUT, since I know what you meant, that's good to hear! My clunk/hop has been minimal, but it's nice to know it can be remedied without much effort.

    Thanks for the feedback...
  • axiomloveraxiomlover Member Posts: 216
    I realize that Axiom is not a speed vehicle, but I like to know what its limits are. I had a chance to "open it up" on an empty road in a middle of nowhere. I took it up to 110 mph, but I don't think it would go far past that. It might be limited by its weight or size, because I did not experience any fuel or ignition cut-off. Even at 110 mph, the ride was very smooth and easy to control.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    my Trooper up to ~115, ran out of road though.

    -mike
  • bobo325bobo325 Member Posts: 6
    I am pleased to report that, after envoking the Lemon Law, Isuzu and my dealer solved the braking problem we had been having: required a second replacement of the drum brakes on our 2WD Ax, and replacement of one of the tires. Apparently, according to the dealer's service manager, the Axiom has had tire problems with the orig Goodyear shoes.

    Keeping our fingers crossed. We still have 1,ooo miles to go until LL expiration.

    I must say that all the personnel, both Isuzu and the dealer, Lou Sobh, were courteous, helpful and got the job done!

    Bob
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    Took my Axiom to the dealer and they completed the work in about 1/2 hour. I was surprised they had the part in stock, then again, it's hard to tell what they did. It looks the same as when I brought it in but I guess they stufffed some padding in there somewhere.
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