Isuzu Axiom

nichelre

i'm a big nissan fan having owned 5 and very happy with each one. I currently have three nissan vehicles. i am seriously considering buying a pathfinder in 2002 but am curious about the Axiom. What % and parts specifically are GM? I don't trust their quality. Any other thoughts on Axiom verus pathfinder would be appreciated. I like the isuzu warranty but have been very spoiled with nissan and very few visits to service beyond oil changes. Thanks Bill

paisan

From my experience with my '97 Rodeo and my '00 Trooper, the only GM parts are the radiators, battery, and Delphi Computer unit. Also all Isuzus use the GM tranny, but it is also used in the Z3 Roadster, and Catera and Holden Commodore, and there have been no known problems with this tranny ever.

Overall you'll find problems few and far between on the Isuzus. 98 and 99 Rodeos had some wheel balancing issues. Other than that, my '97 Rodeo went 120K miles and never went to the shop for anything (including maintenance) other than oil changes ever 3K miles, 2 sets of pads, and 1 set of tires. The value you will find is much better than the Nissans and the Axiom has a much better AWD/4wd system.

-mike

exzave

I, being a proud new Pathfinder would recommend it. Axiom looks OK but seems to be pushing this hybrid styling to far.
Super Black Pathfinder SE w/ silver wheel trim and roof rack is the best looking SUV out there IMHO.
New 240 hp (auto)/250 hp (manual) are great.
You can eat those prissy 4Runners' lunch.
If you like to do your own shifting Pathfinder is about the only thing out there. I have the manual and it is a blast to drive.

18 mpg city w/ heavy foot
19-21 mpg highway

Coudn't resist raiding Isuzu board after I saw this question.

Exzave

paisan

But you NEVER EVER use that 240/250hp, unless you shift at over 6K rpms, that is where the PF makes it HP#s. You also don't get a real frame on the PF. And with the PF if you want dry AWD traction, you are locked into permenant AWD. With the Axiom you get the superb TOD system, that allows RWD (2wd mode), AWD (15/85torque split), and 4wd Lo (50/50 low range). Also on the Axiom you get things like a rear axle LSD as std equipment, not tied into the moonroof option like the PF. Etc. etc. Bang for the buck you can't beat an Isuzu.

Shall we go raid the PF boards and rave out our Troopers that are far superior to any pathfinder, and sell for 5-10K less?

-mike

exzave

Paisan,

5-10K less for a trooper? A bit of exageration.
Shopping around a little 4x2 SE 26K, 4x4 SE 28-29, AWD LE ~31-32. A loaded out trooper w leather is not a whole lot cheaper. Haven't priced troopers lately but, well they have had some huge sales - to help move the sluggish sales on vehicles. (Sales not limited to Isuzu though)

Point taken on horsepower. Ratings are at max rpm but that is true of most vehicles. Power and torque is plentiful through the whole rpm band, thanks to Nissan's variable timing and intake.
Can't get a manual on trooper or axiom, can on rodeo though right?

About car and suv's in general it's about what you like and need, or at least what you think you need! Come on though, Black Pathfinder SE w roof rack is pretty good looking

Ex

paisan

Trooper can be had in a 5-speed, with the PT 4wd system. The new PFs I've seen here in the NY area with AWD system well over $31K with options to bring it up to the Trooper specs. (rear LSD, moonroof, etc) and Trooper LSs are selling for around $27K which puts them at least $5K less than the PFs. Not to mention that the Trooper seating position and interior room beats the PF hands down and it has the largest moonroof of any SUV on the market. All Isuzus have vairable intakes (have had that for a long while) Not that the Nissan is a bad choice, just not the best value.

-mike

http://isuzu-suvs.com

sbcooke

Even though this is the Axiom board....The PF is nice looking, extremely, and HP and the list is good, but have you sat in the back seat? Every time I go to a Nissan Dealer I try to like this truck, but when I sit inside, it is just too small. I see the outside, read about it and say wow, go sit in it and am disappointed. I like the Trooper more, but there isn't anything inherently bad about the PF.

thirdsuv

re: http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolsu.asp

raydahs,

Was there supposed to be good Isuzu news in there somewhere?

All I saw were Isuzus mired at the bottom while

first year Toyota Highlanders/Sequoias were at full production targets?

sbcooke

I would be interested to see the number produced vs. sold. It is also interesting to see the JGC so high up there. It has great specs, but with all of the problems I read about in these forums it sounds like a bad apple, or even lemon...

sbcooke

It is pretty fair to say that while Jeep came up with one of the most innovative and cool trucks of all time, they did a poor job implementing it. Not trying to pretend that on paper one truck is better than the other.

thirdsuv

"Logic says, if sales are slow" ....then you might be attempting to sell a crappy product.

pitt4

Finally logged on to read what others have to write about the new Axioms. I loved it at the Houston Auto Show and test drove one 6 weeks ago. After driving the rodeo and then the Axiom and then the Rodeo again, there was a signifigant difference in ride quality and wind noise between the two. I picked up the S model (as my dealer called it) or base with a moonroof. Interesting, another dealer told me I couldn't get a factory moonroof, only after-market.

I drove off with a 25,700 price (best I found out of 5 dealerships). I wanted the Anthricite with moonroof and not many were available. I also got 3.9% for 5 yrs. Talked him into throwing an extra $700 for trade-in ($1,200 more than anyone else).

Only problem(s) I have incurred is the exterior latch on the passenger side does not work any more - on order. The second is after traveling 20+ miles with the low fuel indicator (light, not message) that I was only able to put in a max of 15 gal. when the tank is supposed to hold 19.5. Even with 2.5 reserve (as manual suggests), that leaves 2 gal. or so to spare. Dealer checked out sensor and said is working fine, but don't believe him. Only one tech there knows anything about the Axiom.

Otherwise have been more than happy with purchase. Been averaging 17.5 mpg according to MID (message center) and crude calculations. Kind of hard to est. consumption when you can't beleive how much fuel your using.

Any comments. Sorry for the lengthy opening remarks.

pitt4

A couple of people have remarked that they hit the pedals holding or extension bar when depressing one or the other. I find the same problem, but was more noticeable on the Rodeo. Are there after market pad that will fit over or replace those pads to add a little height and/or width for surer footing?

99trooper

Hi all...drove an Axiom again today and had to say I really liked it. Compared to my 99Trooper Ltd, the vehicle feels much more refined on the road. Heres some points:

1. Wind Noise: The Axiom is AMAZINGLY quiet at speeds around 80mph. Both wind and road noise are much quieter than the Trooper, mebbe even quieter than my friends Acura TL. We were both pretty surprised.

2. Axiom has 17" wheels, Trooper 16"

3. Axiom did NOT give you that off the line "kick" that the Trooper does, but it kicks in with more power higher in the rpm range.

4. Axiom was a much easier vehicle to drive, seats were more comfortable etc.

5. Air conditioning in the Axiom works! My Trooper air is not strong enough in 100 degree weather.

6. I remarked once before about the brake pedal being weirdly placed, I take that back. Today it felt fine, could have just been poorly adjusted seat the first time.

DOWN SIDE:

1. After driving it a little while an idiot light on the dash started flashing "Check TOD" and then the little graphic readout of the "TOD" car started blinking. Kinda scary to think the transmission was having probs with only 70 miles on the car..

2. My friend felt like the transmission shift points seemed higher than they should have been, and NO I didn't have "Power Drive" engaged.

Ok...so I saw a dealer in CA that had an Axiom XS 4wd for 26330 yesterday, printed it out. Thats DAMN inexpensive..so why don't these SUV's sell?? I thought the ride, handling etc was awesome, it was a great SUV..I found the ride smoother than my friends Acura (TL I think, the 4 door one). It blows away my Trooper for drive and ride. So then I'm sitting at the dealer after my test drive and pickup the Dec 2000 issue of Car and Driver and they review the Axiom, and flat out call it crap! They complain about the ride, the engine etc. They talk about it being a "truck" (duh)and how it rides like a truck..well to me it doesnt ride much like a truck at all. It rides probably as good as the highlander and RX300, and pretty close to the MDX i'd guess..its miles better than the Xterra, Pathfinder, Infiniti, and 4 Runner. Anyway I don't think there is an SUV with true 4 wheel drive with a low that beats it, EXCEPT mebbe the 2001 Montero, and its just a bit slow.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why no one seems to be buying Axioms??? I know its weird looking but, it offers a LOT of value to me and seems to be the best compromise between true off road and comfort without having to spend 40k and up!

paisan

The problem with all isuzu trucks is the marketing. I just spent 3 days in the Uwharrie National Forest with about 20-30 other Isuzu fans from Planet Isuzoo. The family of Isuzu owners is quite strong, but Isuzu(GM) isn't behind the owners at all. They sent 1 baseball hat to give away at this off-road event. Hopefully we can get some Axiom owners to come down in Oct with us, they are quite capable off-road and a lot of us want to see them strut their stuff.

A few remarks about the above:

1) Trooper is a '92 design, so you are trying to compare the '02 Axiom to a 10 year old design of the Trooper.

2) Trooper has much more interior space to cool down with the A/C, but this past weekend temps were in the 90s on the trail and I had my auto-a/c running the entire time while out on the trail

3) The dealer can tell you exactly what the TOD sensor light means, most likely it's a speed sensor, I had a similar problem on my Trooper's TOD unit.

4) The Trooper seats are much better IMHO. The Axiom is a seated position with feet extended like a car, whereas the trooper has the captain's chairs which gives you more of an upright normal seating position which I find to be more comfy.

Hope everyone is happy with their Axioms they are totally kick-butt trucks, especially for the price. Don't be a lemming like the rest of the people that by exploders, etc.

-mike

jamesja

Interesting . . . I found the same situation regarding fuel capacity. The analog gauge reads zero, this is after the digital indicates "low fuel" and the digital estimated miles remaining on fuel goes to "---" (usually below 50-60 miles remaining indicated) and the idiot light low gas LED icon lights, but when I fill up its only 15 gallons or so (vs. 19.5 capacity).

Perhaps the analog gauge and the estimated fuel is set very conservative. I've taken it into account, but it feels a little "driving blind" to put another 30-50 miles on after all the indicators say it's time right now to get gas. At 30-50 miles "into" the low fuel zone I still have about two gallons left. -jj-

p.s. No other problems with my 2WD base model, purchased for $300 over dealer invoice (no holdbacks, natch) at the end of June. It's fun to drive! And I like that it drives like a truck.

paisan

It's better than my Trooper. My trooper is the other way, very top heavy tank F->3/4 = 1/2 tank then it's down hill after that.

-mike

tntmyth

I love my '01 Trooper S. What is cool is that I like it more every day. The main reason I got it was for the cargo room. But I would not be surprised if in a few years, the Axiom will be just right especially if I don't need all that space anymore. I looked at the Axiom in the Isuzu showroom, but could not pass up that awesome Trooper quality at the 0% financing they were offering. The Axiom I looked at had a mustard color interior I did not care for. Wonder if they have it in charcoal. Also I thought the armrest looked kind of like it was made of cheap vinyl. They should have gone for a more leathery look on the armrest. Isuzu could have made the interior look more refined by fixing just a few details like the armrest. Other than that, the Axiom looked like a hell of a deal at a price point of around $25,000 Definitely looked like a much better vehicle than the Rodeo for the same price.
Also it looks cool. More so than alot of the SUV's out there.

No problems so far with my Trooper at 1800 miles. Gas mileage is still getting better with each tank. I'm up to about 16-17 mpg combined city/highway driving. Will probably drop in some Mobil 1 at 2000 miles or so. Not sure what grade I am supposed to use here in Florida. The AC can seem to struggle here on a really hot day. It does eventually cool down after a while driving. Definitely not like my last car, a Millenia that would almost cause frostbite after a few minutes. But to be fair, it is the middle of summer here and I don't have any tints yet. The Millenia had tints.

So in summary, I will definitely look forward to checking out the Axiom in 5-years when new Troopers are but a memory. Axiom seems like alot of SUV for the money.

P.S. The Pathfinder is a very nice vehicle. I definitely considered getting one. But, I do think they are charging alot of profit for what you get. It is still a car-like vehicle, (unibody and all) and they are asking in the low $30's for a loaded SE. I figured out that it would cost me about $10,000 more for the PF than for the Trooper counting interest, etc. Just could't see it. The Pathfinder can take advantage the fact that the mainstream car magazines gave great reviews and the price reflects that. No doubt that Motor Trend, Car and Driver and of course Consumer Reports are favoring the newer car-like SUV's and giving negative press to the truck-like SUV's including the Trooper, Montero, Axiom, etc. If they have their way, we will soon all be driving Highlanders.

paisan

Yep. Last year when I got my trooper, I would have definitely gotten the Axiom, cause I was originally gunning for a subaru legacy GT. The reason i jumped up to the Trooper was AWD, Towing, Capacity, and engine. The Legacy was fine with no one in it, but then with 5 "Paisan" like guys, It couldn't get out of it's own way. I required AWD in whatever vehicle I got, so I jumped on the Trooper.

-mike

stever

"With the Axiom, Isuzu has created a more sophisticated spinoff that looks more at home on Woodward than in the northern Michigan woods."

Detroit News article

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

jamesja

Counting the cigarette lighter, my Axiom has three accessory outlets, which would be wonderful expect that they are only energized when the engine is running (or with the key in accessory position). I like to keep my GAS off it's batteries, and I occasionally recharge my phone, using the accessory outlets but I can't with the Axiom. A friend tells me this situation is the default on most Japanese-designed vehicles.

Is there an easy-to-moderate modification I can make to make the accessory outlets energized full-time on the Axiom? -j.-

paisan

I'll look and see if there is a way to keep them active. Probably jumping wires will do it. It is true about japanese vehicles v. US ones, although a lot of US ones turn off now too.

-mike

jefegigante

Bought 4WD 'Base' Monday night. Paid right at $27k which to me seems a very fair price for such a trick ride.

Bought it for the styling, performance comparisons, and decent room/cargo space (I lug around guitars, amps, etc) without seeming too large.

While I'd love for it to be all roses, I've already experienced the check engine light (yes, 3rd day, 100 miles). Hopefully this does not drag on as told in earlier example. Haven't taken in yet.

Love how the ISC prevents brake dives and I think the speed-sensitive steering is really nice, esp for parking/turning at low speeds.

Only performance complaint so far is that it seems to be too eager to help be brake when I let off gas (maybe teaching me to drive smoother, I don't know).

All in all, happy with value/performance and looking forward to more drives in the Ax.

P.S. My 'empty' tank took only 15 gallons too. Didn't do manual math yet, but computer says I'm getting 17, with highway/street mix.

alpha01

At first, I really thought this vehicle was hideous, but its been growing on me. I recently drove a Rodeo and was reasonably impressed, given its lukewarm press enthusiasm. Typically not a fan of SUVs, but intrigued by the Axiom... are its ride, handling, acceleration as similar to the Rodeo as the platform sharing would suggest?
~alpha

gpm5

With all my driving in the NE recently I still have not seen one of these trucks on the road. I guess I'll finally see one in real life when I go to the Isuzu dealer next week.

paisan

The ride is far better than the rodeo on the Axiom. It has larger tires, lower ride-height, and better suspension than the rodeo (the axiom comes with gas-charged shocks std) You'll be happily impressed. IMHO it's the most car-like ride out of a truck that can tow 5K lbs, and off-road with ease.

-mike

jamesja

Here in Los Angeles (West Los Angeles, South Bay), I drove mine around for >five weeks< before I saw another one on the road . . . -jj-

99trooper

Redrove an Axiom 4wd XS today and immediately after drove a Highlander. The Highlander felt much more "boaty" on the road..the Axiom had much more feel for the road. The Highlander also is a front wheel drive vehicle and had a lot of torque steer in the front wheels, they tended to pull all over the road under heavy acceleration. As for ride, the Toyota handled rough roads a little better, but it felt so unsure to drive that it wasnt worth the small ride improvement. The Axiom on the other hand amazes me more each time i drive it! I am about 99% sure I'm going to buy one pretty soon even though I have no good reason to as I own a 99Trooper Ltd that is a great truck. After seriously driving the Axiom and the Highlander I really can't see why anyone would select the Higlander except for maybe that great Toyota reputation? Cool things about the Axiom on this drive were i got to take it up some pretty steep hills (paved surface) and it feels so sure footed..I also did a very hard stop from 60mph and not once did i feel the ABS stutter and pulse like it does in my Trooper...could be that the Axiom stopping distance is so good I didnt even get close to its breaking point? Anyway, I really am impressed..I can't believe Isuzu isn't selling more of these!

99trooper

by the way...after leaving the dealerships i got in my Trooper and found a little steep and slippery wooded area with about a 45 degree drop in to a muddy area...swung my Trooper off the road and down the drop in and slogged through the mud effortlessly...To come back out, stuck it in 4wd low, and climbed the incline with no wheel slippage at all...TOD worked amazing as usual. Guess thats why I love my Trooper..I just feel I can drive over anything!...:) The TOD and transmision on the Trooper and Axiom have been about the best variable 4 wheel drive system i've ever seen...

paisan

You do realize that when you put it in 4wd Lo, TOD is disengaged, right? Also the reason that the axiom probably didn't studder on the heavy braking/abs, is because it comes with gas-charged shocks all around. My theory is that the ABS pulse felt in the Rodeo and Trooper is due to the Hydrolic shocks that are std equipment, I noticed that afer I did the Rancho 9000 swap my abs rarely ever kicks in now.

-mike

gpm5

What tires are on the Axiom with the bigger wheels? This could also affect ABS coming on.

99trooper

I had forgotten that TOD is not working in 4wd low..so it just must be the plain old 4wheel drive that worked up the incline with no slippage. As far as the ABS, I don't understand how gas shocks would stop the studdering? Isn't that pulsing just at the brake pads? I'm also curious as to why the ABS on your Troop doesnt kick in now? In the Axiom I did a "panic" stop meaning I was doing 60 and hit the pedal pretty hard, continuing to press hard looking for that point where the wheels would break loose and abs would kick in...it never happened, the truck was fully stopped before it had a chance to. In my Trooper its relatively easy from 60mph to hit the breaks and find that point where abs kicks in. FWIW, the Axiom's stopping distance seems a heck of a lot shorter than the Trooper..

99trooper

Since i'm seriously thinking of trading in my Troop and getting the Axiom, I took out the sales contract for my 99 Trooper. On it are the following items:

StateTax
Vehicle Inventory Tax $73.76
Luxury Tax: $0
Licence Plates: $71.30
Tite Inspection, transfer & Registration: $37.75
Documentary Fee: $50

This is all in the state of Texas by the way. Which fees should I expect to pay? I was thinking the Inventory and Documentary fee seem bogus..but what about the rest?

thanks!

paisan

Those feels look like they are legit, but I'd check with your local officials as to the exact tax.

-mike

paisan

Well the way that abs works is that if a wheel is spinning at a different rate than any other wheel during braking (ie: lockup) it will pulse that brake. Normally this will happen when a wheel hits ice or snow or water, it will lockup and then the abs will kick in on that wheel. If you are driving a car with bad shocks or hydrolic shocks in the trooper's case, during braking you can hit some small bumps causing the wheels to jump off the ground, or loose 100% traction, when that happens your brakes will lock as if you were hitting ice/snow/water, therefore your abs will pulse that hub/tire to keep it in control. With gas shocks, the tires don't jump as easily and therefore the abs doesn't kick in as easily. Other reasons that the Axiom may not have had the abs kick in: Weight, it's about 700-900lbs lighter than the Trooper, Gas Shocks v. Hydrolic, Brand new tires on test vehicle v. used ones on yours, wider tires? (not sure what size they use on the axiom), tread type I believe the Trooper uses more of an AT tire than a ST tire the axiom I believe wears more of an ST type of tire (street v. all terrain)

-mike

thirdsuv

Don't forget the....

Visual assault tax = $230

The Aztec is the only vehicle with a higher tax.

Oh that was too easy.

stever

Edmunds' link

7 New Sport Utility Vehicles Sustain Big Damage In 5 Mph Bumps

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

paisan

We know that SUVs don't have 5mph bumpers, deal with it!

The article is trying to compare trucks with car-based ones. I like how they got to ditch on the Trailblazer even though it didn't sustain any damage due to the fact that the hitch protected the bumper. If the hitch protected the bumper doesn't that mean that it faired well? Go figure.

-mike

raydahs

You know what this means, Get your VCR's ready the 40mph offset test coming down the pike. I love those tests in slow mo! However, did you ever notice that the drivers seat position is too far forward in most tests. I have the Trooper on tape, their is no way (the average person) sits that close the the wheel.

alpha01

Do they base the position of the dummies on the distance from the steering wheel or distance to the pedals, since it seems they test with the dummies left foot on the footrest and the right foot on the accelerator?
~alpha

paisan

And whenever I crash into a brick wall, I always keep my foot on the gas, I never brake when smacking into things Also did you ever notice that the Consumer Union test are always video taped from the rear? They don't show how agressively the driver turns the wheel when he cranks it. Is it a smooth turn for some trucks (Exploder, and other companies that "Donate" to CU) and abrubt for ones that don't make the payoff (Isuzu, Mitsu, Suzuki)

-mike

raydahs

They say that thier standard dummy is 5'10, 170 lbs. Thats me +10 lbs. but there's no way I sit that close to the wheel.

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/dummies.htm

Good points mike. Another thing, how come the drivers window is always down. I bet the chance of head injury would increase if it were up.

gpm5

They must have short legs.

raydahs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=593715782

alpha01

I'd like to believe CR, in that vehicles aren't "donated". I don't see a reason not to believe them.

IIHS--The driver's windows are always down b/c if they weren't, breaking glass would render useless any of the video footage taken at a perpendicular angle to the drivers door from the outside.
~alpha

paisan

Well I have to discount them now even more than CR. How could the IIHS devise a test (backup bumper test) basically setting the standard by which they will judge all the vehicles they are going to test. Then the Envoy/Trailblazer aces this test because they come std. with a trailer hitch, and IIHS turns around and says "well we are going to thow out the results of this test because the Envoy Aced it due to the hitch" The hitch is std on all of the vehicles, so why does that give it an unfair advantage? They kinda made themselves look stupid if you ask me by discounting the test with $0 in damage.

-mike

paisan

They don't make enough $ in subscriptions to not take "donations" from certain companies. Also why do they always shoot the video from the rear, where you can't see the driver, and how hard he cranks the wheel?

-mike

gpm5

I think the bumper bar on the hitch would likely have a positve effect on the 5 mph crash, as was seen for the hitch itself.

paisan

It's like a hitch that goes the whole width of the car. Not to mention it's probably thicker than the metal of the hitch itself!

-mike

drew_

...at 7-8pm Pacific/10-11 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/subaruchat.html