Road Trip!

ab348

fintail said:

Back home now. Traffic wasn't too bad coming back - usual congestion in Tacoma due to poor infrastructure management, I think I might have accidentally cut someone off on 90 in Bellevue (trying to get around another who sped up as I was passing, after that due to embarrassment I just nailed it and got ahead of the pack of morons), pass was a breeze, really thinned out past Ellensburg headed eastbound, which is nice. Cruise set at 78 or so most of the trip, another serene journey in the wagon.

Any tumbleweeds encountered once you hit the desert?

fintail

Always plenty in the scrubland, not windy enough for any to be blowing around. I did see a few dust devils out in the plowed fields.

When I was a kid in Moses Lake, tumbleweeds were a normal thing. We lived on the edge of a subdivision with a big field in front of our house, and the weeds would sometimes blow in from there, get stuck in fences, etc, I also remember them blowing into traffic.

ab348 said:

fintail said:

Back home now. Traffic wasn't too bad coming back - usual congestion in Tacoma due to poor infrastructure management, I think I might have accidentally cut someone off on 90 in Bellevue (trying to get around another who sped up as I was passing, after that due to embarrassment I just nailed it and got ahead of the pack of morons), pass was a breeze, really thinned out past Ellensburg headed eastbound, which is nice. Cruise set at 78 or so most of the trip, another serene journey in the wagon.

Any tumbleweeds encountered once you hit the desert?

ab348

I remember being on I-82 east of Yakima and seeing them blowing around, a first for me.

The other memorable thing that day was getting to visit Klipsun Vineyards in the Red Mountain region and getting a tour around by the lady who ran it. I see that their current release (which is always sold out and by invitation/allocation) went for $900 per 6-bottle case. Yikes.

Michaell

When we would go to Cheyenne to visit my in-laws, they would be all over the place. We’d call them Wyoming Christmas Trees.

fintail

Cleaned out the SD cards today, forgot about this amusing stereotypical driver (no sound, I was talking to a passenger):

https://youtu.be/CenTCXQ_ODM

xwesx

Wow; that's a scary combination of belligerence and entitlement!

xwesx

I finally input all of my fuel receipts, including converting all of the ones from Canada. Looks like my Q7 managed the following:

From Alaska to Ohio (no trailer, but heavily loaded including the top-mounted carriers): 23.12 mpg, 240 gallons of diesel, 5,500 miles, and at a cost of $900.

From Ohio to Oregon (pulling trailer at about 2,800# with top-mounted carriers): 12.83 mpg, 178 gallons of diesel, 2,275 miles, and at a cost of $626.

From Oregon to Alaska (pulling trailer at about 6,000#, maybe a little more, with top-mounted carriers): 14.37 mpg, 176 gallons of diesel, 2,500 miles, and at a cost of $715.

Sadly, I cannot really compare the two legs pulling the trailer, as the first leg (while the trailer was lighter) involved much higher average speeds and strong headwinds across all of Nebraska as well as much of Wyoming and Iowa. My worst tank on that leg was 10.14 mpg when I filled up at Waco, Nebraska (best was 15.95 when I filled up in central Indiana).

The second part of the trip, with the trailer fully loaded, I did not encounter nearly as much wind, plus our average speeds were around 10-15 mph slower. My best tank was 16.22 mpg between Cache Creek and Prince George, BC. The worst tank was 11.29 mpg on a 150-mile stretch of the Cassiar (filled up at Bell 2 Lodge). I'm not sure what the reason for it was - I remember it being wet, with a couple stops, and relatively high speeds (~70 mph), but nothing too much out of the ordinary; probably just consistent elevation gain. It was immediately out of here (Bell 2) that I hit those huge potholes that tweaked something in the suspension, but whatever happened, it didn't seem to have an effect on fuel economy. My very next tank (covering the remaining Cassiar highway) was just shy of 16 mpg (second best for the trip).

fintail

Impressive trip, you're using that thing like most would a 1 ton truck.

cdnpinhead

Wind and elevation make a hell of a difference. Generally the wind comes from the west, but not always.

Sandman6472

Took a trip up to Orlando this weekend and my kid's Hyundai Accent showed 45.8 mpg's at one point. There were three of us in the car plus suitcases in the trunk. Kept the cruise at around 70 with the a/c on the whole trip so was quite pleased with how the vehicle drove. It's their base Accent but it gets the job done with no issues at all. It's her second Accent with her first only having one issue in her eleven years of ownership and that was covered under her 5 year/60K warranty. I only had 40K on it when some guy hit her as she was turning into her apartment complex in Miami and the insurance company totalled it. Gave her a check for $5K and she went out and bought another one. Great little vehicle, one I would have no trouble owning & driving as my d d!

xwesx

Sandman6472 said:

Great little vehicle, one I would have no trouble owning & driving as my d d!

Oh, I don't know about THAT! You might own and drive one, but you'd be constantly talking about an upgrade....

explorerx4

Back from our trip to Ohio.
Previous trip under similar conditions, the almost new Explorer got about 22 mpg.
This time with just under 6k starting out, we averaged over 25 mpg, so it's breaking in quite well.

fintail

Went into the office this morning, came upon a crash - LEO already on scene. Mangled Crosstrek, and about half a mile ahead, mangled RAV4 with a rear wheel perpendicular to the others. Not sure how it made it so far, unless the wheel buckled just before it stopped. I actually don't mind the commute, so long as traffic is light

imidazol97

Drove from Ohio to Pigeon Forge, TN, yesterday. Wonderful drive thru
most of Kentucky as the drivers, travelers, were considerate and seemed
to show ability to allow other drivers to merge over to avoid being
caught behind slower vehicles. Best trip for driving courtesy of the
last 4 I can recall coming here. Hope the drive home will be as pleasant.

The Monday morning 8 o'clock traffic in Cincinnati was never at a dead
stop on I75 in the bad spots. Amazing luck for us.

My Malibu 2014 with 2.5L gave 37 mpg to the stop in Knoxville at CFA. That's despite the "hills" in lower KY and TN at 70-75 mph. Who needs electric vehicles!

No really interesting cars. Traffic from TN I40 to Sevierville (Dolly Parton's
home) was heavy in all 3 lanes. There are all these old folks here around
Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg. We fit right in, by the way.

They come for the scenic Smokey Mountains with
the deciduous trees changing colors--but from what I see in the distance
the trees didn't get the message to change. A bus load of widowed ladies
is staying at our motel. They were stereotypes of TV shows.
Fun to watch them as I grabbed the breakfast stuff to bring up to the room.

fintail

Out on the road this time of year, the dopes without lights are back in force.

xwesx

fintail said:

Out on the road this time of year, the dopes without lights are back in force.

I had one just tonight! However, I did a quick succession of flashes while behind him, and, amazingly, a few seconds later the lights came on! I was so impressed that I waved and gave a thumbs up when I drove by. Although, with my lightly tinted windows, the driver probably couldn't see me anyway.

I was honestly impressed.

fintail

Amazing that it worked, that means someone wasn't engrossed with a passenger or their phone.

Seeing them already in October, it's going to be a long winter. This is one instance where tech (auto lights as opposed to DRLs that only illuminate the front) is helpful.

xwesx said:

fintail said:

Out on the road this time of year, the dopes without lights are back in force.

I had one just tonight! However, I did a quick succession of flashes while behind him, and, amazingly, a few seconds later the lights came on! I was so impressed that I waved and gave a thumbs up when I drove by. Although, with my lightly tinted windows, the driver probably couldn't see me anyway.

I was honestly impressed.

Sandman6472

Think I could live with the top level Accent, the SEL, with the sun/moon roof, alloys and whatever other goodies come with it. It looks way better with those alloys and I like my hole in the roof, especially starting this time of year. Think we're always wanting something better, that's just most of us in these forums, but I do think I could live with the top of the line if I had to. Not saying I'm going to though!!!

fintail

For a loaded Accent, I wonder the difference between it and a middle or even upper middle Elantra, which seems like a lot more car.

On the road this morning. An Idaho plated vehicle cuts in front of me - no signal, then turns the direction I am going - no signal, then gets confused at a metered on ramp and stops twice. I had to honk. Then when merging, he signals! Speeds up as I am alongside him, then drops back as I pass. I swear, if one border needs a wall... (no video, there was profanity and then some)

On the way home tonight, looks like at least a 5 car pileup - 90 through downtown Spokane is a zoo, many ramps and drivers who don't always get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQuc-AlZ_L4

Sandman6472

Poured this afternoon on I-95 in the Delray Beach/West Palm Beach area and folks were driving like they've never seen rain before, it was a zoo!!! Just blew me away as to how stupid folks were being speeding up and passing other vehicles with almost no room in between and then tailgating those in front of them. All the lanes were moving slowly so why, since there was no way to speed up anyways. Think folks do stupid-a_s things in a car because there's they know the average person will not challenge them in a violent way. It's similar to being on ones computer keyboard where folks say things to others they'd never say face to face. In a vehicle, most folks honk at these offenders or at worst, flip them the middle finger. Not that many rally exhibit serious road range where a confrontation actually happens.
We've become a mean society in these past few years, and it'll take a few more years for most folks to become nicer again to their fellow citizens which is a shame. Being nasty or downright mean is not acceptable to me in any way, shape or form. It's time that we become nicer to our fellow man especially with what's been going on this last year and a half. We really are better than that... or at least we were, time to go back to being a polite society once again.

ab348

fintail said:

On the way home tonight, looks like at least a 5 car pileup - 90 through downtown Spokane is a zoo, many ramps and drivers who don't always get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQuc-AlZ_L4

Well, someone added rain. That is always a recipe for mayhem.

Interesting to see the ends of guardrail at the exit equipped with flashing LED chevrons. I hadn't seen them before. I imagine those will be the latest "best practice" thing that our taxes will need to pay for.

fintail

Rain is especially fun with the hordes of Californicators who continue to pour into this area. I think most locals can handle it. Snow season is especially fun with the newbies.

I think the chevron thing is my LED headlights reflecting, with the refresh rate quirk making them flicker.

ab348 said:

fintail said:

On the way home tonight, looks like at least a 5 car pileup - 90 through downtown Spokane is a zoo, many ramps and drivers who don't always get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQuc-AlZ_L4

Well, someone added rain. That is always a recipe for mayhem.

Interesting to see the ends of guardrail at the exit equipped with flashing LED chevrons. I hadn't seen them before. I imagine those will be the latest "best practice" thing that our taxes will need to pay for.

fintail

Was in the office today, and some heavy slushy snow rolled in just as people were getting off work. Nothing sticking to arterial roads in town by the time I got home - most roads with traffic were bare and wet, but it still took me half an hour to go around 9 miles, and I suspect 25 minutes of that was on a 3-4 mile stretch of 90. No crashes, no hazards, just timids freaking out in the snow. I'll blame the transplants/invaders from sunnier climes.

I had the snow wheels installed last week, so I was confident either way.

cdnpinhead

Got back a week or so ago from a mini-vacation that my wife and I took through Death Valley, then up 395 to find the first Sierra pass that wasn't closed for the season (Monitor on CA 89). Dodged most of the Bay Area traffic and went up the PCH north of Point Reyes and US 101 as far as Eureka (the old Redwood Highway was as impressive as always), then headed back down. We had one and a half days of decent scenery (Trinity Alps & back across the Sierra) before dealing with a long day and a half getting back through NV and AZ.

The Forester did fine, except for one major thing which is important to me in mountain driving. I want to shift into a gear going downhill that enables me to descend without ever touching the brakes, except maybe for a 20 mph curve or something. I can do this exactly as I wish with a manual transmission, and have been able to do pretty well with a conventional automatic also, but the rubber band transmission on the Forester is absolutely useless. I can shift into a sort of low range, but it becomes apparent quickly that the system makes liberal use of the brakes to maintain downhill speed, not engine braking.

The journey was 2580 miles in nine days, with about 900 miles on the last two days, so the first seven were pretty mellow. Anyway, the "new" Forester now has over 71K miles on it. So far, so good, except for the crap transmission programming.

xwesx

Pretty solid miles for a 2017 model! I think we're only a little over 100K on our 2013.

I don't have a good image in my mind of your route. I recall we took some road through redwood territory just south of the Oregon border quite a few years ago now, but I don't think that is the one you took. I'll need to break out the map when I get a chance of it.

kyfdx

We hiked in Point Reyes when we were on vacation in 2017.
Also, the Armstrong Redwood Preserve in Guerneville.

Beautiful area.

cdnpinhead

The Richardson Grove is on the southern end of the redwoods that are immediately adjacent to US 101, and I recognized some stuff there that I hadn't seen in nearly 70 years, when my folks lived near Mammoth and June Lake and we were up there on a short holiday. The real meat and potatoes is a ~38 mile stretch of road that is off the current 101 -- it's the old highway, but now a much more pleasant drive with closer contact with the trees and lighter slower traffic. It's called The Avenue of the Giants and starts at exit 645 on the southern end, about 14 miles north of Richardson Grove.

xwesx

Okay, after looking at a map, I see now that we were much farther north, on 199 through "Jedediah Smith" state park, when we drove through redwoods.

Sounds like a great time.

I may need to figure out an excuse to sneak down that far south one of these years just to experience it. I think my family may have gone through there many years ago when we were visiting family in San Bernadino. I recall crossing the Golden Gate Bridge on my birthday, but I don't recall which one at this point.... it was either 8 or 9. Darn memory is failing me.

Funny enough, I remember clearly that we were driving our 1980 Subaru GL wagon. Dad wanted to drive some of the famed steep streets of San Francisco, which we did before crossing the bridge, and there was one that had a stop sign on the uphill end. He stopped, and the car simply wouldn't move forward from that stop. He had to carefully back a u-turn and head down the other way!

cdnpinhead

Ah, the Golden Gate. I've crossed it in my MGB, the 240Z, both Miatas, and several of my other cars. Best memory though was when I was driving my KW and delivered a sailboat in Sausalito that I'd brought from Painesville, OH, early in the morning. I deadheaded across the gate and drove through downtown SF pulling an empty 42' boat trailer, then on down to Costa Mesa.

Good times.

xwesx

Driving that through downtown SF would be quite a memorable experience, I'm sure!

Was that boat something that required either oversized flags or pilot vehicles? I know a lot of them sit up very high on trailers due to the lower stabilizer. If so, how often did you need to bypass overpasses due to clearance issues?

cdnpinhead

Anything over 8 feet wide (it's up to 8'6" now) required oversize permits in each state, as well as anything over 13'6" tall. It gets awkward back East with anything very high, and I generally was under 14'. Anything over 12 feet wide required a pilot vehicle on two-lane roads. Anything oversize required Oversize Load signs front and rear, as well as flags front and rear and on the widest part of the load. The trailers were specialty lowboy designs where the keel of a sailboat could sit less than a foot above the road. We had adjustable steel risers and carpeted pads to support the hull around the sides, but the bulk of the weight was supported by the keel.

As I recall, I got into every one of the lower 48 except for ND in the 2.5 years I drove. I owned my Kenworth tractor (350 Cummins, 9 speed Roadranger), but the company I was leased to (Boat Transit Inc., long since out of business) owned the trailers and set up the loads and permits. Most of the loads ran from coast to coast or to the Great Lakes, so I ended up in a lot of nice places, with a lot of nothing in between.

I had a single drive axle tractor, so the really big stuff was hauled by guys with tandem drives, and they often required running back roads to avoid low overpasses, along with two pilot cars. They got those loads and I got stuff that had to go through states that had an overall 55' length limit (back in those days - it's 65' or more everywhere now) with my short truck -- 120" wheelbase, even though it weighed 13,200 lbs.

In any event, I enjoyed it a lot and regretted many times getting out of the business when I did.

xwesx

That's a great story; thanks for the share!

I sometimes think that driving might be a good way to pass a few years after I retire, but I'm not sure if I would enjoy it as much if I was doing it for a living. I'm sure my wife would appreciate having me out of her hair for a while, though!

cdnpinhead

It's physically hard work at the ends, and dealing with the weather and various state officials can be an issue. In my opinion it's a young person's job, and dealing with the paperwork and other problems can also be a problem for some people.

That said, you get paid to drive, and that certainly works for me.

Michaell

cdnpinhead said:

It's physically hard work at the ends, and dealing with the weather and various state officials can be an issue. In my opinion it's a young person's job, and dealing with the paperwork and other problems can also be a problem for some people.

That said, you get paid to drive, and that certainly works for me.

You could do that by driving for Lyft or Uber - without the getting paid part, I suppose.

explorerx4

Drove the Explorer about 1300 miles round trip over Thanksgiving.
Filled up 4 times and paid between 3.399 and 3.599 for RUG.
MPG averages in order were 21.1, 22.0. 23.5, 24.6.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

Drove the Explorer about 1300 miles round trip over Thanksgiving.
Filled up 4 times and paid between 3.399 and 3.599 for RUG.
MPG averages in order were 21.1, 22.0. 23.5, 24.6.

Hey, that was trending well. You should have kept going!

How were the roads/traffic during the holiday craziness?

explorerx4

@xwesx,
Trip was making great time mixed with some long traffic jams.
As usual, once we got east of Poughkeepsie NY on the way back, things really slowed down for long stretches through Waterbury CT on I-84.
Our timing for that wasn't good, 5-6 PM Sunday evening.
Could have been worse. In PA at Dubois, highway was shut down eastbound from MM exit 97 to MM 90 on I-80. Only local roads off that exit. Ton's of 18 wheelers caught up in that.
Good thing we were headed west.
In Ohio we went from 3 lanes to 1, instead of 2 for over 10 miles, for no apparent reason, other than cones blocking off the other lane.

xwesx

Bleh. But, at least the weather wasn't (it sounds) against you as well! Seems like there's always a storm blowing through much of the nation on the holiday (THIS holiday) weekend because, well, why not?!

fintail

First really wintry commute of the season - there have been dustings of snow here and there, but this was stronger. I left work a little early to avoid chaos, no huge issues, but some roads were slow going.

Untreated road was fine:

https://youtu.be/7GR7uecZUhc

But this treated backroad arterial was slick - deicer was applied in the past few days, but in today's snow it didn't do much. Some cars were having a hard time making it up the hill:

https://youtu.be/zoVSaoEJIhI

(noise from defrost, old Christmas music Sirius channel)

fintail

Apparently yesterday evening and night was indeed a mess around here, I left work at the right time:

https://www.krem.com/article/weather/spokane-winter-weather-advisory/293-8edb413b-ee7c-4633-bf93-dcd7928be6d3

On the road today, came across this incident. I noticed a LEO on the left with lights on, zoom in and check out the truck and what's in front of it. Someone and their insurance company are not having a good day:

https://youtu.be/6Qs6KdENjsw

That road had tons of ice, too - it seems road clearing around here is inconsistent, as this road is a major arterial. I also notice that at least in my opinion, Spokane was doing a better job than Spokane Valley at keeping main roads passable. Sprague, another major arterial, was treacherous in spots in the valley, much better past the city limits.

I am pretty sure the wagon has never been this dirty before, not sure if the car sees it as a badge of honor or a sign of sloth - I will vote for the former:

cdnpinhead

fintail said:

I am pretty sure the wagon has never been this dirty before, not sure if the car sees it as a badge of honor or a sign of sloth - I will vote for the former:

You and me both. Cars are meant to be driven, not just when the roads are dry.

Well done.

xwesx

Ooooooooh dang! That's all kinds of slothiness. I know what you'll be doing this weekend....

xwesx

In other news.... crazy how folks just lose their minds when a little snow falls. I couldn't quite tell what was in front of the truck (other than a building), but it looks like a classic case of loose tail syndrome on the slightest of curves in the road. I have to wonder where the driver's mind was at the time, as it didn't look like that portion of the road was any different than the rest (e.g., guy should have been driving carefully long before that point!).

Seems like if DOT was less quick to step in to rescue folks from themselves, drivers would be more willing to prepare for the conditions. I vote for the latter, but what do I know.

I have a friend here that talks about her inability to get around with her new-to-her car because it doesn't have winter tires on it. She can't afford to buy winter tires, yet she cannot get around without them. I keep fluctuating between buying her a set and letting her suffer her own fate of mixed up priorities.... /sigh

fintail

Yeah, look at the building, it has a new window or door that I think wasn't there before the truck arrived. All I can see is $$$ in that situation. I think people here assume a road has been treated - I assume the same thing too, then find out maybe the hard way that it isn't. The city (Spokane proper) does a good job with the major arterials, but if the ice piles up quickly, anything else will be iffy. We don't have as many hills as Seattle, but this is still a city of hills, being built around a river.

The wagon has been a trooper in the snow and ice so far, that tire and wheel package was a fine investment. Now just to see how long I can look at it with a layer of greasy sludge - maybe that layer will protect it from future grime

xwesx said:

In other news.... crazy how folks just lose their minds when a little snow falls. I couldn't quite tell what was in front of the truck (other than a building), but it looks like a classic case of loose tail syndrome on the slightest of curves in the road. I have to wonder where the driver's mind was at the time, as it didn't look like that portion of the road was any different than the rest (e.g., guy should have been driving carefully long before that point!).

Seems like if DOT was less quick to step in to rescue folks from themselves, drivers would be more willing to prepare for the conditions. I vote for the latter, but what do I know.

I have a friend here that talks about her inability to get around with her new-to-her car because it doesn't have winter tires on it. She can't afford to buy winter tires, yet she cannot get around without them. I keep fluctuating between buying her a set and letting her suffer her own fate of mixed up priorities.... /sigh

fintail

On the road today, more snow and ice, but the roads were better. Still a few slick patches, but I kept it on the road The driving world can be summed up in snow driving - being behind someone in an Avalon being maybe a little timid (but I was fine with it, if I arrive at work at 7:18 or 7:23, it'll still be there) with a Toyota 4x4 and foglights too close to my rear, or a stereotype in a yellow Jeep zooming by everyone then getting stuck at a light.

Drove to work, started snowing, car sat outside, snow fell and melted, icicles. Drove home and they remained intact even after going ~45 for awhile, strong ice (pic was taken immediately after I got home):

xwesx

lots of snow here, too. I didn't think to take photos. Your car looks pretty good compared to mine. Even considering the MB badge on the front!

andres3

Eeeked out 26 MPG from the Tiguan in rainy wet conditions going up and down the State of CA with 3 people, 1 small dog, and a full load of presents and clothes/luggage.

Mostly at super legal speeds around 80-85 MPH since the electronic CHP signs all read "It's a Highway not a Speedway; Watch your speed!" on them. Did slow down when the rain fell heavier, but there were some dryer patches.

kyfdx

34.7 mpg in my rental RAV 4 for about 400 miles, today

fintail

Had some fun yesterday - pulled out of the driveway and was treated to a TPMS warning showing 11 PSI in the left rear tire. That one has thrown warnings before, I had assumed because of a quirky sensor responding to our yo-yo temperatures - I would previously just add air now and then and make the warning go away, and it be fine for weeks. I guess not. I got out and could visibly see the tire was low, so pulled up to an adjacent gas station with a (paid, but the modern kind that automatically goes to the pressure you specify) tire pump. I then noticed the pressure was steady as I went home, so I decided to drive to work to see what would happen. It didn't lose a single PSI. Took it into a nearby repair shop, and it had a big nasty looking nail, but was able to be patched - I guess the chunky Blizzaks can take some abuse.

Been dicey on the roads here the past week too - first the slick mess after we had 10" of snow with a layer of freezing rain, then a freeze-thaw cycle, then ice fog - yesterday morning was especially bad with all exposed surfaces having a glaze of ice. I'd much rather have plain old snow, nicer to look at and easier to drive in (and seems to scare the timid off the road more than ice, somehow, I guess as it is easier to see).

xwesx

fintail said:

Had some fun yesterday - pulled out of the driveway and was treated to a TPMS warning showing 11 PSI in the left rear tire. That one has thrown warnings before, I had assumed because of a quirky sensor responding to our yo-yo temperatures - I would previously just add air now and then and make the warning go away, and it be fine for weeks. I guess not. I got out and could visibly see the tire was low, so pulled up to an adjacent gas station with a (paid, but the modern kind that automatically goes to the pressure you specify) tire pump. I then noticed the pressure was steady as I went home, so I decided to drive to work to see what would happen. It didn't lose a single PSI. Took it into a nearby repair shop, and it had a big nasty looking nail, but was able to be patched - I guess the chunky Blizzaks can take some abuse.

Been dicey on the roads here the past week too - first the slick mess after we had 10" of snow with a layer of freezing rain, then a freeze-thaw cycle, then ice fog - yesterday morning was especially bad with all exposed surfaces having a glaze of ice. I'd much rather have plain old snow, nicer to look at and easier to drive in (and seems to scare the timid off the road more than ice, somehow, I guess as it is easier to see).

Sounds like the old normal for that region! That sort of weather was par for the course during January and February in the eastern parts of Washington and Oregon during my time there (~1980 - 1995).