A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

thecardoc3

roadburner said:

I can't see why he would; he's that rare SA who is also a knowledgeable mechanic, and he has no reason to make things up.

If he is a knowledgeable mechanic, then why isn't he wrenching? Study alone isn't enough to remain physically and technically competent.

Mr_Shiftright

roadburner said:

I can't see why he would; he's that rare SA who is also a knowledgeable mechanic, and he has no reason to make things up.

It's not a matter of "making things up"--it's just not backed up by any testing---so it could be accurate, or not. It's anecdotal---but interesting enough to suggest consulting a BMW engineer about it.

stever

Does your comment mean that you are back to wrenching in your shop again @thecardoc3?

thecardoc3

Part time as much as I can tolerate. I do have to pick and choose what comes in. We tell a lot of people no if the work is going to be too physical.

I do concentrate on the diagnostics and a lot of the time schedule one of the neighboring shops to actually perform the repairs.

roadburner

thecardoc3 said:

roadburner said:

I can't see why he would; he's that rare SA who is also a knowledgeable mechanic, and he has no reason to make things up.

If he is a knowledgeable mechanic, then why isn't he wrenching? Study alone isn't enough to remain physically and technically competent.

Why not ask him?

thecardoc3

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-entry-level-jobs/3716/

thecardoc3

A shop called yesterday for help with a 2005 Ford F-150 super cab 4x4. They originally diagnosed a failed instrument cluster and sent it out for repair. The cluster was repaired with the replacement of the cluster control module (circuit board) and was sent back with a note that programming may be required.

The truck as it sits right now has only two mils that will come on when attempting to start, SRS and Charge.
The security light flashes slow until the crank position, upon which it begins to flash fast.
The power windows, radio, and several other systems are all inoperative. There are no modules communicating on the data bus but a code P1630 can be retrieved. They have checked all of the connections and fuses and can't identify any thing wrong. For this exercise, the most important part is getting the schematics and pre-planning the testing, very similar to what you might recall from high school chemistry lab.

Try to determine which circuits need investigated first, second, and maybe third. How would you start your testing? Trying to guess one part or another will leave you stranded. Can you devise a strategy that will make analyzing this "easier"?

thecardoc3

When preparing to, and then performing diagnostics you have to first take note of what has been reported, then you have to test and confirm yourself. During testing, you need to forget everything else and follow what you can confirm right now.

The rest of the story is this shop is the third to attempt to analyze the vehicle. The instrument cluster was physically damaged to the point that the circuit board was unrepairable, however replacing it still had the same conditions as before it was replaced. No Start, no crank, security light flashing fast. No power windows, HVAC blower operation, radio, or instrument cluster.

The shop owner pointed out this at the PCM.

There was similar wiring repair work under the dash including installation of an aftermarket remote start system.

The first question that needs an answer is, if none of the modules are communicating where did the trouble code come from? The PCM communicates on CAN data bus as does the instrument cluster and the ABS. The other modules are on the UBP bus. Connecting the scan tool revealed the only modules missing were the HVAC, Radio, and Instrument Cluster. The code that was setting in the PCM was described correctly as PATS information not received by the PCM, but the identifier was incorrect, it was really P1681.

For the radio, HVAC and power windows to operate the Instrument Cluster has to turn on the retained accessory power relay. The first check is to see what parts of that circuit are working and what parts are not. Relay testing is best thought of as two separate circuits, the control circuit and the controlled circuit. Power was available to the relay for both of those circuits. Completing the controlled side of the circuit allowed the windows and radio to operate. There was no command from the repaired cluster to turn the relay on.

All of the rest of the testing needed to be performed at the cluster with the connectors attached to the cluster.

About this time the shop owner asked if I could look at another car. A 2010 BMW 328i that the battery died on over the weekend. The customer had the car towed to a shop in the city who replaced the battery and got the car running but told her that she had to go to the dealer to have it reset. The instrument cluster had stopped working with the battery replacement and they told her that the "reset" would solve that as well.

Same routine. How do you prepare to work with this problem? What do you need?

The failure on the F150 that was preventing the instrument cluster from turning on was proven. Upon testing to see if everything then worked the truck cranked but would not start, everything else was fine. Pulling codes revealed a P1233 setting but no other codes.

Next?

BTW, total time for both the truck and the BMW, about 1.5hrs. That includes time to joke around a bit.

stever

Another wiring rat's nest. And that's not including the rewiring mess. Looks worse than the cable farm under my desktop computer.

Mr_Shiftright

I saw that photo and reared back from the screen and covered my eyes. If I were thinking of buying that car, I would have politely shut the hood and gone home.

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

I saw that photo and reared back from the screen and covered my eyes. If I were thinking of buying that car, I would have politely shut the hood and gone home.

Years I looked at an early E24 6er; I popped the hood and immediately saw a Ford solenoid screwed to the inner fender panel. What kind of moron does something like that?

thecardoc3

The same ones that put anti-foulers on the down stream sensors.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you know the fate of some older BMWs. Many are cheap to buy (you can pick up a decent 635 for $5000 bucks) and so they fall into the hands of people who can't possibly afford to give them all the maintenance and repairs they need. So they fall victim to makeshift repairs, often done with little grace. Same with Benz and Audi and old Jaguars. The "look rich for cheap" temptation, which actually fools no one who sees an old BMW with doors of different colors, is understandable, but often puts the last nail in the coffin of an ailing German car.

roadburner

thecardoc3 said:

The same ones that put anti-foulers on the down stream sensors.

You were right; I HAVE taught you a lot about condescending comments. That said, I'll let you know if/when the X3 implodes...

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I saw that photo and reared back from the screen and covered my eyes. If I were thinking of buying that car, I would have politely shut the hood and gone home.

I should have taken a photo of what was under the dash. It made that look like a work of art. I think that's part of this that amazes the shop owner that I went to help out this morning. When things didn't work out, he couldn't see past that stuff and concentrate on the failure. He was contemplating removing all of the rats nest as a necessary part of the diagnostics and repair and it's true that there can easily be problems lurking in that mess but they weren't the primary issue. (Besides, if something in it were the issue, proper testing would easily lead right to it anyway)

With the instrument cluster inoperative it cannot turn on the RAP ( retained power accessory) relay, so all of the testing needed to concentrate on the cluster. That means not only does it need to be removed for access the connectors need to be disassembled to the point that they can be attached to the cluster and allow the circuits to be back-probed. Powers and grounds need to be tested live under a load, which is not the way that trouble trees direct technicians to test. Static tests can quite often fail to reveal a fault, and that's all someone is doing with an ohm-meter when testing for grounds or continuity. Even voltage tests with no current load can show potential voltage, only to have a voltage drop occur when the circuit is under a load.

Seen here is the RH IPC connector with the posi-lock cover removed for access. The green wire tie is on the black/blue wire, pin 18 ground for the instrument cluster that had an 11v drop on it when it was connected to the cluster. Jumping that wire to ground allowed the cluster to turn on and turn on the RAP relay which powered up all of the known affected circuits at that point.

This was the point in time that it was discovered that even though the engine would now crank it still didn't start. I don't know if any of you can really relate to this but as a technician working for someone else similar results in the past would have had someone treating me (any tech) as if we had failed to diagnose "the problem". It seemed that it never failed that what ever was the last problem to be solved no matter how long the string, that was somehow supposed to be the only problem that the vehicle actually had. (There are plenty of threads here that reveal this tendency). Never mind the fact that prior to this point the engine didn't even crank because the security system had it shut down.

So the question now was why isn't it starting. The approach requires the tech to forget everything that has been done to this point and troubleshoot the problem at hand. To get an engine to run you must have spark, fuel, compression (including fresh air) and of course security system permission. Since the truck now cranked it was appropriate to check trouble codes again and that's when the P1233 was found. There was no fuel pressure and with a code for no communication from the fuel pump control module that's where the diagnostics headed next. The pump was confirmed to be OK, the module failed and a final quick test of bypassing the module had the truck running.

The BMW was next. It didn't make any sense that the cluster would be inoperative with the battery replacement, but either way the first thing to do is connect a scan tool and check for codes. The scan tool powers up off of the ALDL pin 16, and uses the pins 4 and 5 for grounds and it didn't turn on when connected. Testing showed no power to pin 16 in the ALDL, and troubleshooting that issue revealed the 5 amp fuse #74 had blown in the fuse center behind the glove box. Replacing the fuse restored the cluster operation as well as provided power to the scan tool. From there clear codes and perform the battery registration and she was ready to roll too.

thecardoc3

roadburner said:

You were right; I HAVE taught you a lot about condescending comments. That said, I'll let you know if/when the X3 implodes...

Here's to hoping that is a long time from now, if ever.

stever

And why did fuse #74 blow?

thecardoc3

stever said:

And why did fuse #74 blow?

That's an unanswered question at this time. Unless it blows again its not something to really be concerned about.

stever

lol, then you are diagnosing the solution, not the cause.

Pardon me while I go swap my gas cap out.

thecardoc3

stever said:

lol, then you are diagnosing the solution, not the cause.

Pardon me while I go swap my gas cap out.

On one hand its odd that you cannot see the difference between these two circumstances, but then again without any practical experience from which to draw from not surprising. Speculating on what "might" have caused the fuse to fail is wasted time, there are too many variables at play. You can't even get a starting point with the circuit now operating normally.

Let's do this another way. How much are you willing to spend to try and find something that you don't even know exists? Do you even have the slightest clue as to the physical aspect that would come into play to try and manually search the affected circuit? Since you don't, why can't you leave the decision of when to chase and when not to up to the people who do?

Mr_Shiftright

I think he was saying that without knowing why the fuse blew, one is left with some doubt as to whether this car is coming back to the shop soon. It's just a bit unsettling to leave that unresolved.

I think if I were the shop owner I'd drive the car around for a bit before letting it out the door.

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I think he was saying that without knowing why the fuse blew, one is left with some doubt as to whether this car is coming back to the shop soon. It's just a bit unsettling to leave that unresolved.

I think if I were the shop owner I'd drive the car around for a bit before letting it out the door.

How many miles do you think you would need to drive the car to prove if it has a problem or not?
How much are you going to charge for that time?
How are you going to respond to any critics that call the road test "joy-riding", as well as gouging the customer for additional diagnostics when "all it needed was a fuse"?

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I don't think it would take very long to test the car---I'd drive it around for ten minutes with all accessories on, and I'd add the 10 minutes to the labor charge but not necessarily note it as a test drive.

If standard procedure for a technician is to "verify the complaint" BEFORE one solves the problem, and charge for that, then I don't see why you can't charge to verify the solution afterwards.

There are legitimate and not-so-legitimate charges. If a bolt is rusted, you charge extra to get the damn thing off, but if someone sends you the wrong part, that's not the customer's problem.

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Oh I don't think it would take very long to test the car---I'd drive it around for ten minutes with all accessories on, and I'd add the 10 minutes to the labor charge but not necessarily note it as a test drive.

Two day's later you find out there was a hidden camera in the car when people start calling and telling you about the video and complaint on YouTube..... Good luck with that.

Mr_Shiftright said:

If standard procedure for a technician is to "verify the complaint" BEFORE one solves the problem, and charge for that, then I don't see why you can't charge to verify the solution afterwards.

Why don't you know you can google BMW 328i instrument cluster inoperative and find out that it's just a bad fuse? Well you can now that I wrote a story about that one car, it doesn't have to actually relate to what's wrong with a different one. But this is exactly what Steve tries to impose over and over again. (aka the gas cap)

Mr_Shiftright said:

There are legitimate and not-so-legitimate charges. If a bolt is rusted, you charge extra to get the damn thing off, but if someone sends you the wrong part, that's not the customer's problem.

Really we get to charge extra for that? That's news to me. In order to stop losing time dealing with rusty fasteners I have about $6,000 in additional specialty tools that help me out in such cases, as well as practical experience that makes a rusty bolt a minor annoyance that doesn't even slow me down 95% of the time. This is one of the little paradoxes of the work we do. The better we get at the work, the more we spend on tools, the less we get to make, not more. Consider that even if everything else was equal, purchasing those additional tools detracts from our weekly earnings since that money comes right off of the top of our paychecks. Then to top it off with the way flat rate is administered, picture me beating the time even with the corrosion issues. By not charging additional the shop gets to not have to deal with selling the additional cost to the consumer once a quote has already been given. The line you would hear if you were the tech working at that level is "You have to take the good with the bad". Plus, we can't charge them anymore because(insert excuse) and besides the doing that "for free" makes us better than the shop (insert location) and that will earn us more business.

thecardoc3

Oh, BTW the really tough ones (corroded fasteners, broken fasteners etc) I haven't had one take me longer than ten minutes to overcome in more than twenty years. You should see how quickly I can weld a washer, and then a nut to a broken bolt in a block, cylinder head, or whatever and take it right out. Even if I do have to drill and re-thread, I do that right in place and it takes between five to ten minutes consistently.

xwesx

thecardoc3 said:

Oh, BTW the really tough ones (corroded fasteners, broken fasteners etc) I haven't had one take me longer than ten minutes to overcome in more than twenty years. You should see how quickly I can weld a washer, and then a nut to a broken bolt in a block, cylinder head, or whatever and take it right out. Even if I do have to drill and re-thread, I do that right in place and it takes between five to ten minutes consistently.

Damn. Do you do call outs? Hahaha. I dread it when that happens, as it is typically a nightmare to correct.

thecardoc3

I did an engine in a Toyota Tacoma about three months ago. I never had to deal with more broken, corroded undersized and seized fasteners than I did on that one. I had to source some twenty bolts and nuts to put the thing back together. That's was harder than the rest of the job.

Mr_Shiftright

"His bowtie was really a camera...." (Simon and Garfunkel)

stever

thecardoc3 said:

stever said:

lol, then you are diagnosing the solution, not the cause.

Pardon me while I go swap my gas cap out.

On one hand its odd that you cannot see the difference between these two circumstances, but then again without any practical experience from which to draw from not surprising. Speculating on what "might" have caused the fuse to fail is wasted time, there are too many variables at play. You can't even get a starting point with the circuit now operating normally.

Let's do this another way. How much are you willing to spend to try and find something that you don't even know exists? Do you even have the slightest clue as to the physical aspect that would come into play to try and manually search the affected circuit? Since you don't, why can't you leave the decision of when to chase and when not to up to the people who do?

I get a check engine light. First thing I'm going to do is tighten the gas cap.

If it's still on a day later, I go to the parts store and pull the codes. If it's an "evap" code, I replace the gas cap.

If that fixes it, I'm done and don't care if it's the seal on the gas cap or if it's cracked or whatever.

A "real" tech would diagnose the issue and weld another gasket on there, right?

You got a plastic welder I presume?

Back to the point, you don't need to be a tech or a pro to search fixes and implement them. Most all of us have a laundry list of skills. We've tackled problems without any experience or training and we have many success stories. If nothing else, we have a frame of reference to use to try to understand the tech's diagnosis.

Mr_Shiftright

It might take me 10X as long as Doc, but sooner or later I pick brains, read up, experiment and somehow muddle threw it. That's why I don't run Shiftright's Garage.

I solved one CEL by replacing the gas cap (used my code reader, got a small leak code).

Another by installing colder spark plugs (misfire)

Another warning light (air bag) by unplugging and cleaning the seat belt sensor on the passenger seat

Another warning light (TPMS) by checking and filling all four tires and resetting the system.

I'm 4 for 4 this past year!

Oh, stopped a sunroof leak by popping off the A Pillar trim and straightening out a kink in the drain tube.

thecardoc3

stever said:

I get a check engine light. First thing I'm going to do is tighten the gas cap.

If it's still on a day later, I go to the parts store and pull the codes. If it's an "evap" code, I replace the gas cap.

If that fixes it, I'm done and don't care if it's the seal on the gas cap or if it's cracked or whatever.

A "real" tech would diagnose the issue and weld another gasket on there, right?

Like I said, no real practical experience.
I suppose if you pop a zit you are a dermatologist, brush your teeth you're a dental hygienist, watch the peoples court on TV and well,,,

stever said:

You got a plastic welder I presume?

Do you have a microwave oven? Guess you're a chef..

stever said:

Back to the point, you don't need to be a tech or a pro to search fixes and implement them. Most all of us have a laundry list of skills. We've tackled problems without any experience or training and we have many success stories. If nothing else, we have a frame of reference to use to try to understand the tech's diagnosis.

Being able to do things doesn't equal skills. Are you trying to apply for a job with what you claim to be capable of doing? Would you be willing to pay a shop the rates they need to charge, for someone with exactly "your skills" and how long it would take him/her to accomplish a given task?

It must seem like good sport to continually waffle your perspective and adjust the finish line to suit your needs at any given moment. It's sad that you don't realize how that impacts a consumers perspective about what is really right as compared to what is not.

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

It might take me 10X as long as Doc, but sooner or later I pick brains, read up, experiment and somehow muddle threw it. That's why I don't run Shiftright's Garage.

How do you feel about the likelihood that you might not be able to accomplish a lot of the challenges techs face today at all?

Mr_Shiftright

thecardoc3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

It might take me 10X as long as Doc, but sooner or later I pick brains, read up, experiment and somehow muddle threw it. That's why I don't run Shiftright's Garage.

How do you feel about the likelihood that you might not be able to accomplish a lot of the challenges techs face today at all?

I'm fine with it. I do as much as I can, and when I can't, I know who to hire.

I'll say one thing, Doc. I know enough not to screw something up.

stever

It's okay to admit you have no idea why the fuse blew. Let's just hope it won't be a come-back.

thecardoc3

Unless it blows again its not something to really be concerned about.

What kind of a statement is this really supposed to be? "It's okay to admit you have no idea why the fuse blew."
Nobody knows exactly why the fuse failed, nor when. It's a sign of incompetence to try and go anywhere beyond where this is at right now. You don't go out and drive it around, you darn sure don't go fishing and you don't waste time speculating. "IF" the fuse fails again then the circumstances change. If it doesn't then regardless I have done exactly what should have been done, BOTH WAYS.

You don't have the experience and insight to judge this (and a lot of other situations) correctly, it's OK to admit that and way past due. Anyone that proceeds in any fashion that contradicts how this BMW situation has been handled up to this point is at the very least incompetent, if not unethical.

stever

Sounds like this mechanic would do more than simply replace the fuse. (youfixcars.com)

"If a fuse blows in a circuit, you can almost guarantee that even if the problem is intermittent you'll see the same fuse fail again."

thecardoc3

Operative word "almost".

Otherwise nice link. Next time read it because what it says in the middle is.
"At first we were just popping in a new fuse and releasing the vehicle to continue its workday. But eventually we had to dig in and find out what was causing this problem. Searching down an intermittent short can be extremely time-consuming and a real headache."

The BMW isn't at eventually yet, and it might never be.

31.24mv. What is it? What does it mean?

stever

Obviously you need to replace the 5 amp fuse #74 with a 10 amp one.

thecardoc3

31.24mv.

Mr_Shiftright

no, no, some tinfoil! Let's make this one a real hooptie!

thecardoc3

Have you talked to a Vo-Tec instructor lately? Tonight is open house at one of the schools. Talking to the instructor, he had some unsettling statistics. None of the kids that have graduated from the program in the last two years are in the trade. None of them. He tried to go back five years and the majority of the kids either didn't respond or couldn't be located. He found three techs working in the trade and none of them were satisfied with their current positions.

The biggest reason that the majority left was that they couldn't make enough money. The common theme from the ones who went to the dealerships was that they started off on the lube rack and got to start growing in capability. The average wage for them was about eleven dollars per hour. Between six to nine months in, they all got switched to flat rate and were being assigned ever more complex work. This effectively buried them since they weren't ready to produce the hours and drove them from the bays. One of the kids went to work at McDonalds and is making more money than he did as a tech.

Should be a fun open house trying to get kids signed up for next year......

Mr_Shiftright

As Lee Iacocca famously said about working in the automobile industry---you need to have "fire in your belly".

He was right. If you don't "love it" on some level, then get the hell out.

I'm also reminded of the difference between being a hobbyist and doing something for a living. Mark Twain has this line (paraphrase) about how delightful it is to walk up and down a mountain on a spring day, but that if if was your job to do everyday, you'd learn to hate it.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's a head-scratcher for Doc:

http://answers.edmunds.com/question-Why-dims-2005-C180-Kompressor-I-start-driving-The-brights-work-211488.aspx

Any chance this is related to the backup lights? How can putting a car in first gear turn off the headlights?

thecardoc3

Did you try to look at a schematic for this? Does he have auto dimming headlights? The Front SAM controls the headlights based on various inputs on the CAN data bus. He isn't doing anything with this without a scan tool that can read and display the data from "the system" modules and also perform bi-directional commands. FWIW My I-Scan WT supports this system but navigation in the tool is miserable to learn. But it only cost 8K as compared to the 20K+ I would have had in the actual O.E. tool.

Mr_Shiftright

SAM = Signal Activation Module. So you're thinkin' something is tickling that?

thecardoc3

That's where the investigation starts. The first thing that must be proven is what the other modules are telling the SAM to do, and then you work to see if it is capable of commanding the outputs. I wouldn't rule out that the CAN bus is dropping out and that's why the high beams come on as a default. It probably is aiming them down below the normal high beam level, if it can communicate to the headlamp assemblies.

Wasn't I just saying something about running into stuff that you wouldn't be able to do at all? Talk about timing.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, you were, but who ever said we could do it all? Not me.

So what can cause the CAN bus to drop out? Isn't this strictly a matter of damaged wiring or connectors?

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes, you were, but who ever said we could do it all? Not me.

Not in so many words, but the message repeated by the average consumer has come through loud and clear over the years and maybe you forget but the whole reason I ever came by here in the first place was in a response to an Edmunds "Expert" that tried to get away with only telling the part of a story that they wanted to.

Let's take Steve's attempt to challenge whether it was appropriate to stop with the BMW as I did or proceed blindly. If I was a DIY'er that same post would not only not be questioned, it would be featured somewhere as being brilliant and it would have been used as a tool to criticize any shop who would have tested further and charged for the time as you suggested to do. Then we have the fact that when I posted it, it was only worthy of trying to find something wrong with it. You can use any reason you want to for that, probably blame me but the reality is that it's been that way long before I ever posted here. I am only guilty of doing what it takes to prove that this kind of bias has been going on for longer than I have been a technician.

Mr_Shiftright said:

So what can cause the CAN bus to drop out? Isn't this strictly a matter of damaged wiring or connectors?

The list of what can cause a failure like this is so long, the engineers cannot write a trouble tree that could guide someone through the diagnostics. When communication fails, its also impossible to connect another computer to the system with software loaded on it that could ferret out the answer too. To solve these problems many "assume" that it is going to take an engineer. The funny thing about that is I've met some brilliant engineers that have designed things that the majority of us couldn't even imagine in a 1000 lifetimes and they wouldn't figure out that Mercedes low beam failure in a 1001. It's a lot of the same education, but a completely different application of it. Saying this another way, you can be taught to play a musical instrument, but you have to have talent to be a musician. I can type words on a computer screen, but that doesn't make me a writer. Being able to tighten or replace a gas cap whether it fixes "A" problem or not doesn't make someone a technician's peer.

As far as the Mercedes goes, until the initial discovery phase is completed which starts with a capable scan tool, the next step doesn't exist. Sort of like the missing insight with the BMW, fuses, and what 31.24mv really meant in context.

guitarzan

Mr_Shiftright said:

As Lee Iacocca famously said about working in the automobile industry---you need to have "fire in your belly".

He was right. If you don't "love it" on some level, then get the hell out.

I'm also reminded of the difference between being a hobbyist and doing something for a living. Mark Twain has this line (paraphrase) about how delightful it is to walk up and down a mountain on a spring day, but that if was your job to do every day, you'd learn to hate it.

Forgive the drawn out soliloquy below but I love talks about work ethics and excellence vs. mediocrity. I think this is one of the most important things to stress to young people especially. Those young mechanics who left? They should all read this post.

I am going to say something which will offend the civilization in general: Most people in the workforce act as though it is a hobby, at least 70-80% if not more. This is a disappointing reality.

Today I administer an enterprise class software product. The documentation for these is terrible and the development tutorials are just as bad. I was lucky and got hired because while every Fortune company has this product, there is no incentive to move from one company to another, so I was hired as a tech guy who will "figure this out along the way."

My first couple of years I worked late every single day. I had no idea that would be the case, and it was painful and not easy. Just like with mechanics, the day was filled with production, requests coming by phone, by e-mail, people stopping at the door and interrupting, just non-stop chaos during a period of huge growth of our company. At "clock out time" I noticed everyone else disappeared. So I figured out that at the end of the day I can poke around this systems and figure out from scratch, "How do I do this? How does this work? Is X capable in this product?" I added major study time to the role, on my own time. Yes we all know it is not fair not to get paid for extra hours, but the reality today is that this is a requirement. What people do not understand is that when you start a new role, you have just begun to go to school.

We have several divisions using this product. They all have people who have been administering it longer than I have. They all call me to find out how XYZ works! For a long time I figured these people were new or had just started with this software. Then I found out they all had 5+ years on me! One thing I noticed that they have in common: They leave at exactly quitting time. Can't do that. The IT role drives the hours. That long line coming out of the IT department at exactly quitting time? Most of those people cannot even have a decent conversation. They are utterly lost. Chair warmers. Refer to my statistic at the top of this post please.

One must be pummeled and dig their way out to get to a competent level.

I would tell these things to anyone starting out. Where do you want to be 5 years from now? Would you like to be the "go to" guy? You can get there. Would you prefer to be like most people who clock in, do the exact work assigned, then leave? You can be that person as well. Not to get religious on anyone, but Christ looked the agrarians in the eye and told them, whatever you put into that field is exactly what you will get out of it. He was acutely aware of man's laziness, and pointed it out to them. I think it is fair to say that mankind never, ever changes.

I know that dealerships are corrupt. From Ford, to Toyota, to Acura, every one has either charged for work they did not do, provide the incorrect parts, or charged me a corrupt rate. I am sure it would be just as terrible an experience to work there. But on the flip side of the coin, the populace has this fairy-tale like picture of work, and a sense of entitlement that someone is required to pay them certain wages and have certain conditions. That is nonsense.

My rule is: Starting a new role or business one must put in 50 hours as employee or 60+ hours as owner, per week for the first 5 years in order to reach a successful level. In this case that means donating 10 extra hours to the company in exchange for an education. Anything less will result in mediocrity or even failure.

Look, I don't like this fact. I am tired! Man I am tired! Ready to retire early! But for lack of a better expression, it is what it is.

thecardoc3

so I was hired as a tech guy who will "figure this out along the way."

Hi @guitarzan.

Thank-you. Nicely done. I'm pretty sure you can identify with the fact that as a tech working for someone else, I was the first one in the building and the last one to leave. There were periods of time that could run ten months without a single day off and on top of the hours in the shop there was another two or three spent studying everything I could get my hands on, only to find something else that I had never seen before when back at work.

Then came the 100 hour weeks. 50 to 60 hours in the shop and then travel to and present evening classes for other shops/techs anywhere from one to four nights in a week. Meanwhile I still had to make time for future class prep as well as study for my own continued improvement. All this while fully recognizing there is no finish line, there will always be more to learn, more tools to buy and not a penny left over to save towards retirement.

Take all of that and your line above that I quoted sums it up nicely. All that effort and what's left is we are still trying to figure it all out.