"OK, we checked it out and you need a new fuel pump. I'll just drain your gas tank and drop it right here in your driveway".
THE ACTUAL SCENARIO
"It's your fuel pump but we can't do that here. You'll have to have it towed to a repair shop. Your bill with us is $100"
PART II, ACTUAL SCENARIO
The scene is the owner's repair shop.
"Well, we'll replace your fuel pump if you say so, but it that doesn't fix it, you'll still have to pay. We didn't do the diagnosis."
PART III
"We replaced the fuel pump but the car stalled during the test drive. There's some intermittent electrical issue here. We'll have to do more diagnosis".
PART IV
(Scene is the telephone)
"Your mobile guy said it was the fuel pump but it wasn't. I want my money back"
"Who said it wasn't the fuel pump. Go back to them, then."
Just look at the whole scheme, he starts a company with other investors money builds it to a point and then sells it. He doesn't really have the consumers best interests in mind he is all about making a fast buck and getting out well before the other shoe drops.
Imagine yourself needing to look at a problem with one of today's high tech cars. The owner reports that the battery was run low and the car needed to be jump started. The owner knows what discharged the battery so that wasn't the problem. The problem occurred after the owner re-charged the battery, the auto start/stop function stopped working.
The next day it was working correctly.
Was this normal behavior? How would you test and prove if the system had a random failure if it is working correctly now?
This is just one example of the new breed of quirks that techs have to be ready to contend with.
We all can see where this is going---unless some geniuses come up with a much improved type of nationwide database of solutions, possibly run by web bots with incredible powers of cataloging, searching and sorting.
While there will be some things such as the stop/start example above that could be data based, there are an infinite number of other issues that techs will ultimately have to contend with that are yet to be discovered which would make them impossible to log. At the same time, when lists are out there and if they would happen to work, what does that do for an individual building skill and knowledge that would allow him/her to solve problems that no-one else hasn't solved first?
In your soloist example, let's get Yo-Yo Ma to do a solo at a concert. When he sits down to play we put some sheet music in front of him that he has never seen before and have the conductor start right into the song. Now he would be working just like a top technician has to. If he is perfect and doesn't make a mistake that would almost be expected, but whether he makes a mistake or not that one event doesn't have any bearing on his overall talent and skill.
Try and imagine all of the stuff that goes on (used to?) that was all about painting techs with the same negative brush and let's apply that to the rest of the orchestra. It was not that long ago that if someone on the outside knew of an oddball problem but a given tech had not yet ever encountered it, the techs overall talent, knowledge and experience was judged by that single shortcoming instead of the whole picture. It was quite common to see someone who knew of that single issue to label the tech a moron with no regard for the rest of the tech's talent and skill. So in that vein, anyone in the orchestra who wasn't ready to be a soloist would be by that example a moron. It should be easy to recognize that it would be inappropriate for anyone to treat any of the musicians that way especially when they themselves may have but a fraction of the talent or skill that is required to get to practice with the rest of the group let alone get up on the stage. But if you think back a few years ago most of the stuff you ever saw about a tech falling short for what-ever reason resulted in anything but tolerance and understanding for just how difficult the work really is.
BTW, the best way to picture what a technician's world is really like is every tech IS a soloist regardless of their present experience and training. Most of the time they work within their present skillset and appear as just a part of the orchestra, but they are in fact working solo and in order to grow they have to occasionally step up and work beyond that level and that exposes them to greater risk of failing. Being willing to learn more and take on harder challenges is supposed to be rewarded and if/when they fall encouraged to get back up and try again. When you meet a great technician, stop and consider that he/she has worked hard to gain their skills and knowledge in a career where only they picked themselves back up when they fell, while everyone around them used the event to do anything but that.
Are you having trouble figuring out how to use all of the technology in your car? If you're overwhelmed with how to operate your navigation system, bluetooth, park assist or other advanced technology feature, a reporter would love to talk to you about your experience.
Please send an email to PR@Edmunds.com by Friday, March 17, 2017.
I remember when customers would come into a shop because their car didn't run right. You had to figure out why and then repair what was wrong. Today, you just insert an OBD-II scanner and it tells you what to replace. It is a different world.
Mr. Crain. Who told you that? There is no tool that tells technicians what to replace and it's unlikely that there ever will be one. But instead of just arguing the point why don't you get into a set of work clothes, step into a service bay and try to diagnose and repair a few broken cars?
That means we're going to need a different type of technician tomorrow.
We need a different kind of technician today as well as tomorrow, but if management continues to remain clueless as to what that really means we will continue to fail to grow them.
As automotive systems get more and more complex, it will become even more important to have service techs who are really good at using diagnostic tools and making sure that they know what really needs replacing. Recently I was told that 90 percent of all computer modules that were returned were still perfectly OK.
Wait a minute here. A few sentences ago you tried to say that all someone has to do is plug in a tool and it tells the techs what part to replace, and now you are saying that the majority of the diagnostics getting done result in parts being replaced that aren't defective. There really is a simple explanation for why parts get tossed and result in modules that aren't defective being replaced. Typical dealer flat rate pay plans don't support and reward technicians for performing disciplined diagnostic routines. Techs aren't rewarded for taking on the more difficult work, in fact they are anything but rewarded for rising to the challenge. Meanwhile warranty labor times don't pay the technicians fairly for the repairs that they have to perform. Fix the pay plans, and then address the training gap that exists because of not paying the techs for diagnostics etc. and the rest of the problems will start to go away all by themselves.
It will take a different individual to analyze the problems.
Yes it does take a different individual and that's not new, it's been that way since computers became a part of vehicle control systems.
We don't need mechanics anymore; we need technicians. It also takes a different kind of service adviser to deal with customers today than it did five or 15 years ago.
We still need mechanics but they need to be the same kids that spend most of their day in a robotics lab. We need some of those kids to also love to work on cars and we have to be able to offer them a comparable career to what they can find doing that other type of work.
It just isn't possible to tell a customer that all cars act this way, it's the way they came from the factory. You can't get away with that anymore. As vehicles get more complex, the financial makeup of the service department is changing, too. It is a different world in today's dealership. Different styles, different people. Different vehicles, too, with electric and fuel cell powertrains bringing new challenges. Hiring will be different from now on, and longtime employees will have to be re-trained, whether they like it or not.
Articles like yours prove that the retraining has to start somewhere other than the bays.
Yet despite all the change, it's probably better all around for everybody.
Meanwhile, anyone need a set of points and a condenser?
Sure, there are a lot of engines that use them that are still in service.
I wonder if after they fixed the seal in the Haldex clutch on my '16 TTS, refilling the differential and clutch fluids exacerbated the other problems and helped them to more quickly and easily identify the rear diff was also leaking.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
In a technicians forum there was a post from a dealership technician a couple days ago inquiring about what it is like in the aftermarket when you have to be prepared to work on so many different vehicles and systems. The reason he started asking was revealed to be that the management in dealer that he presently works for just decided to stop paying the techs to do diagnostics. Now it's been bad enough that they don't pay the techs enough to allow them to really be disciplined, but nothing at all will push them even more towards the flawed pull a code and toss a part routine. The tech notably points out that any cars that come back un-repaired via the toss a part approach will likely see the tech back flagged for the time. That makes it a lose-lose proposition for even trying and so he has correctly realized it's time to take his twenty years experience and master certifications in KIA and Mazda and head on down the road.
The worst part right now is in knowing what dealer this is. It's knowing what this will do to the shop first in morale and then the quality of the work they will put out. The corporation that this tech works for owns numerous dealers in his area and this is a decision coming from the dealers corporate warranty clerk. That means it's likely going to happen in most if not all of the stores that this billionaire owner has. When everything does start falling apart even more than it already is, there is no doubt the techs will be burdened with the blame and same insults we have had to deal with in the past especially as the service department's revolving door starts to spin faster and faster. I can well imagine how the up-sales of stuff is going to increase as the remaining techs struggle to make ends meet. Then when a service writer and tech get "caught" overselling they will be dealt with and the poor dealer was just another innocent victim. Never mind the fact that through a series of punishment and reward the system flat out trains the behavior. It's really troubling knowing who this dealer is and knowing there is little to nothing that can be done about it, or should I say little to nothing that I can do about it.
I already set the wheels in motion to connect the tech with a great independent shop who will treat him fairly and value his skills. KIA corporate who made this agreement with this dealer clearly does not.
Average weekly earnings of dealership employees rose 2.6 percent, boosting total annual compensation to an average of $69,000 per employee. Szakaly said that means dealership employees earn one of the highest average salaries of any industry. The average weekly earning per employee was $1,122.
The battle to hire service technicians helped drive up pay, said Szakaly.
"The service-tech shortage is reflected in the rising wages and earnings," he said. "That's why you see these rising wages in what you pay people so you can attract people to the industry."
Question: If your dealership's service adviser is against returning your car while it is waiting for a replacement part, and you go against the Car Doctor's orders, is that grounds to have later warranty coverage denied while it is still in the warranty period?
Part of me thinks that since the rear diff is being replaced anyway, why not drive the old one until it seizes or, what's the worst that could happen? I imagine collateral damage is what they are afraid of....
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
In a technicians forum there was a post from a dealership technician a couple days ago inquiring about what it is like in the aftermarket when you have to be prepared to work on so many different vehicles and systems. The reason he started asking was revealed to be that the management in dealer that he presently works for just decided to stop paying the techs to do diagnostics. Now it's been bad enough that they don't pay the techs enough to allow them to really be disciplined, but nothing at all will push them even more towards the flawed pull a code and toss a part routine. The tech notably points out that any cars that come back un-repaired via the toss a part approach will likely see the tech back flagged for the time. That makes it a lose-lose proposition for even trying and so he has correctly realized it's time to take his twenty years experience and master certifications in KIA and Mazda and head on down the road.
....
I already set the wheels in motion to connect the tech with a great independent shop who will treat him fairly and value his skills. KIA corporate who made this agreement with this dealer clearly does not.
This example just reinforces what you have said over and over again: The value of the work is in the diagnostics. The repair itself is often the easiest part. I have to wonder why this concept is so elusive to the dealer networks. If they embraced diagnostics and trained their people to be fast and effective at it, everyone would benefit. All of the other tactics you mentioned (e.g., the up-selling) just breed the lack of trust that drives people to want to pay less for repairs.
Maybe it is just a diametrically opposed situation for dealerships: Dealers want to sell new cars. Repairs (outside of warranty, in particular) are an indicator of longer terms of ownership. If you frustrate the owners just enough that they don't want the car anymore, but not so much that they don't want the brand, then perhaps you'll drive more sales!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Well that's the Fed's poverty level---$24,000 a year for family of 4 (except Alaska and HI) . So $46K a year is just about $400 a week over that. A family of four on that salary---not so good for a technician with those skills.
Plumbers with a 5 year apprentice program make $50 an hour.
This example just reinforces what you have said over and over again: The value of the work is in the diagnostics. The repair itself is often the easiest part.
Getting paid poorly, and especially in this case not at all for the most challenging that work a tech can be assigned is just plain wrong and hurts the consumers as well as the tradespeople.That was one of the things I wanted everyone to realize when I first came here and why I shared a number of real diagnostic events. It takes a lot of training and experience on top of raw talent to do the job the right way day in and day out.
I have to wonder why this concept is so elusive to the dealer networks. If they embraced diagnostics and trained their people to be fast and effective at it, everyone would benefit. All of the other tactics you mentioned (e.g., the up-selling) just breed the lack of trust that drives people to want to pay less for repairs.
It would also mean that the techs would have to be looked at as more than just warm bodies that are filling a position.
Maybe it is just a diametrically opposed situation for dealerships: Dealers want to sell new cars. Repairs (outside of warranty, in particular) are an indicator of longer terms of ownership. If you frustrate the owners just enough that they don't want the car anymore, but not so much that they don't want the brand, then perhaps you'll drive more sales!
Why do you think they rarely if ever pushed back against the negative stereotypes that used to be tossed around all of the time?
I met a man last week who reminded me a lot of you, Doc. At least, his personality reminded me of how I would imagine you to be (in person)....!
Funny enough, his nickname is "Doc," and he was a GM master tech. He bailed out of the dealership business many years ago for the reasons you cite here, and he now has his own shop. He doesn't work on other peoples' cars much anymore, though, and mostly buys, fixes, and sells cars. He makes a good living at it (from what I could gather).
He was at my place to buy our 2010 Forester, which was totalled in a crash about six weeks ago. The car itself was a quick ten-minute discussion/walk around, but then we were standing in my driveway talking about vehicles, the auto tech trade, etc., for another forty minutes (and I could have easily spent the rest of the day chatting with him!). He was supposed to stop by again on Saturday morning to retrieve the car, but didn't show up.
Turns out, his wife had a stroke the day prior (Friday). He said that she was going to be (mostly) okay, and asked if it was okay to wait until Monday on the car. I laughed and said for him to just give me a call when it was high enough on his priority list to worry about. He has a lot more important things on his mind right now than another crashed car!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Well that's the Fed's poverty level---$24,000 a year for family of 4 (except Alaska and HI) . So $46K a year is just about $400 a week over that. A family of four on that salary---not so good for a technician with those skills.
Plumbers with a 5 year apprentice program make $50 an hour.
Either way, the $69K/yr was for dealership employees as a whole, not techs, specifically. According to the article you linked.
That is correct, some employee's would tend to pull that number higher while others would not. The tech referred to considering moving to an independent is making $25/flat rate hour. Since diagnostics now pay him nothing.......
$25 clams an hour is good pay. Just watch what ya buy, dudes. Watch watcha buy.
Seriously? For a tech with twenty years experience and Master Certifications on multiple carlines? If you really think that is good money, you should put in an application since the job will be open real soon.
FWIW Walmart truck drivers are advertised to make double that.....
I happen to know UPS drivers top out at $39/hr and Fedex at $35/hr. UPS has has a pension and stock plan. Just throwing that out there for no particular reason.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
gbrozen, no that helps. For a mechanic with experience like cardoc's example above, I think they should earn something more in the $45 an hour range. At least. Look at how important their work is, ya know? Brake work is so important for driver(s) safety.
I happen to know UPS drivers top out at $39/hr and Fedex at $35/hr. UPS has has a pension and stock plan. Just throwing that out there for no particular reason.
Fedex Express couriers in our area top out at $29/hr. Good benefits, but new drivers start at $18/hr and it takes 10 yrs to top out.
Anyone that thinks $30/hr isn't a good wage is out of touch with the blue collar world.
apparently, from what I've been told, Fedex does vary by region. UPS, however, is a nationwide contract. Pretty interesting. Makes me wish I moved to a cheap area and went to work for UPS. A friend of mine will retire from there in about 7 more years with 2 pensions (1 for being a driver and 1 for being a hub manager) and nearly $1M in stock (at current value).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I happen to know UPS drivers top out at $39/hr and Fedex at $35/hr. UPS has has a pension and stock plan. Just throwing that out there for no particular reason.
Fedex Express couriers in our area top out at $29/hr. Good benefits, but new drivers start at $18/hr and it takes 10 yrs to top out.
Anyone that thinks $30/hr isn't a good wage is out of touch with the blue collar world.
I think it depends on the benefits! $30/hour as a contract worker with zero benefits; not so good.
$30/hour with typical union benefits that are only matched in the public sector, now your're talking! I suppose in the private sector, you'll find financial companies (banks) can match or exceed the gold-plated public-sector benefits.
Teachers don't get paid enough? Well, they only work about 9 months/year, and get just about every holiday ever invented in all of history. You have to look at the benefits, and time off is certainly a benefit.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Well that's the Fed's poverty level---$24,000 a year for family of 4 (except Alaska and HI) . So $46K a year is just about $400 a week over that. A family of four on that salary---not so good for a technician with those skills.
Plumbers with a 5 year apprentice program make $50 an hour.
You need to get out of California.
Never. There's no better place in the world. Why do you think the highest prices are in the nicest places? Hah? (Got you there, didn't I)
But seriously. No one, IMO, living in say Denver or Peoria is high on the hog on $46K a year. Oh, sure, you can knit your own iron pants from steel wool and harvest dandelions from the highway median, but really, $46K for a family of 4 is not a lot of money anywhere in the USA.
Fact is, wages for the average middle class person, adjusted for inflation, haven't risen in decades.
The rear differential in my Dodge Dakota 4X4 seems a little "grabby" on hard right or left slow turns. What can I do about that? No shutter or noise but some tire squeal.
Yes LSD....that's what I was thinking...a good flush and an additive....worth a try, right? The truck has high miles so there must be some wear in there. Thanks Doc for the link. I'll let you know what transpires!
The rear differential in my Dodge Dakota 4X4 seems a little "grabby" on hard right or left slow turns. What can I do about that? No shutter or noise but some tire squeal.
What can you do about that?
Simple! Don't make hard right turns or slow left turns!
All the manufacturers used to sell special limited-slip additives. I know the diff in my E24 M6 would growl on tight turns once it was good and hot; I think we added the GM additive and it quieted down almost immediately.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The rear differential in my Dodge Dakota 4X4 seems a little "grabby" on hard right or left slow turns. What can I do about that? No shutter or noise but some tire squeal.
What can you do about that?
Simple! Don't make hard right turns or slow left turns!
My name is Steve and I am not sure what Master Mechanic Title encompasses these days. But I am a moterhead son of a motorhead who was a son of a mechanical engineer (aviation). My dad and his brothers all worked for big three, one retired from ford, my dad went on to computers and my other uncle started his own shop.
So i have had a wrench in my hand when i was able to hold it without dropping it. I've only owned one new car in my 56 years the rest i bought and fixed up.
At any rate, I tutored under master mechanics most of my life aka my uncles, and have self taught myself to rebuild automatic transmission, building stroker 383's, and I pretty much pull apart anything and find out whats wrong and put it back together and get it running like new.
I also hold a electronics degree and that lately has been of little use to me in finding out whats wrong with my car. I've posted a thread concerning the issue...if you want to take a stab at it its crank /no start in the blazer thread.
I work on poor folks vehicles these days mosty. Its a need that isn't out there. I charge them 30.00 per hour plus parts but i also charge the travel time to go get parts since nearest parts store is 1 hour away. All in all i am still reasonable for the folks around here and i do it without fancy equipment. Just my wrenchs, my VOM, and a test probe.
When it comes to doing valve jobs and seats i take it to a shop that the guy will rent time on his machine to do the seats and valves.
Comments
THE FANTASY SCENARIO
"Please come over. My car doesn't start"
"OK, we checked it out and you need a new fuel pump. I'll just drain your gas tank and drop it right here in your driveway".
THE ACTUAL SCENARIO
"It's your fuel pump but we can't do that here. You'll have to have it towed to a repair shop. Your bill with us is $100"
PART II, ACTUAL SCENARIO
The scene is the owner's repair shop.
"Well, we'll replace your fuel pump if you say so, but it that doesn't fix it, you'll still have to pay. We didn't do the diagnosis."
PART III
"We replaced the fuel pump but the car stalled during the test drive. There's some intermittent electrical issue here. We'll have to do more diagnosis".
PART IV
(Scene is the telephone)
"Your mobile guy said it was the fuel pump but it wasn't. I want my money back"
"Who said it wasn't the fuel pump. Go back to them, then."
The next day it was working correctly.
Was this normal behavior? How would you test and prove if the system had a random failure if it is working correctly now?
This is just one example of the new breed of quirks that techs have to be ready to contend with.
In your soloist example, let's get Yo-Yo Ma to do a solo at a concert. When he sits down to play we put some sheet music in front of him that he has never seen before and have the conductor start right into the song. Now he would be working just like a top technician has to. If he is perfect and doesn't make a mistake that would almost be expected, but whether he makes a mistake or not that one event doesn't have any bearing on his overall talent and skill.
Try and imagine all of the stuff that goes on (used to?) that was all about painting techs with the same negative brush and let's apply that to the rest of the orchestra. It was not that long ago that if someone on the outside knew of an oddball problem but a given tech had not yet ever encountered it, the techs overall talent, knowledge and experience was judged by that single shortcoming instead of the whole picture. It was quite common to see someone who knew of that single issue to label the tech a moron with no regard for the rest of the tech's talent and skill. So in that vein, anyone in the orchestra who wasn't ready to be a soloist would be by that example a moron. It should be easy to recognize that it would be inappropriate for anyone to treat any of the musicians that way especially when they themselves may have but a fraction of the talent or skill that is required to get to practice with the rest of the group let alone get up on the stage. But if you think back a few years ago most of the stuff you ever saw about a tech falling short for what-ever reason resulted in anything but tolerance and understanding for just how difficult the work really is.
BTW, the best way to picture what a technician's world is really like is every tech IS a soloist regardless of their present experience and training. Most of the time they work within their present skillset and appear as just a part of the orchestra, but they are in fact working solo and in order to grow they have to occasionally step up and work beyond that level and that exposes them to greater risk of failing. Being willing to learn more and take on harder challenges is supposed to be rewarded and if/when they fall encouraged to get back up and try again. When you meet a great technician, stop and consider that he/she has worked hard to gain their skills and knowledge in a career where only they picked themselves back up when they fell, while everyone around them used the event to do anything but that.
Are you having trouble figuring out how to use all of the technology in your car? If you're overwhelmed with how to operate your navigation system, bluetooth, park assist or other advanced technology feature, a reporter would love to talk to you about your experience.
Please send an email to PR@Edmunds.com by Friday, March 17, 2017.
KEITH CRAIN
We don't need mechanics anymore
Say's who?
I remember when customers would come into a shop because their car didn't run right. You had to figure out why and then repair what was wrong.
Today, you just insert an OBD-II scanner and it tells you what to replace. It is a different world.
Mr. Crain. Who told you that? There is no tool that tells technicians what to replace and it's unlikely that there ever will be one. But instead of just arguing the point why don't you get into a set of work clothes, step into a service bay and try to diagnose and repair a few broken cars?
That means we're going to need a different type of technician tomorrow.
We need a different kind of technician today as well as tomorrow, but if management continues to remain clueless as to what that really means we will continue to fail to grow them.
As automotive systems get more and more complex, it will become even more important to have service techs who are really good at using diagnostic tools and making sure that they know what really needs replacing. Recently I was told that 90 percent of all computer modules that were returned were still perfectly OK.
Wait a minute here. A few sentences ago you tried to say that all someone has to do is plug in a tool and it tells the techs what part to replace, and now you are saying that the majority of the diagnostics getting done result in parts being replaced that aren't defective. There really is a simple explanation for why parts get tossed and result in modules that aren't defective being replaced. Typical dealer flat rate pay plans don't support and reward technicians for performing disciplined diagnostic routines. Techs aren't rewarded for taking on the more difficult work, in fact they are anything but rewarded for rising to the challenge. Meanwhile warranty labor times don't pay the technicians fairly for the repairs that they have to perform. Fix the pay plans, and then address the training gap that exists because of not paying the techs for diagnostics etc. and the rest of the problems will start to go away all by themselves.
It will take a different individual to analyze the problems.
Yes it does take a different individual and that's not new, it's been that way since computers became a part of vehicle control systems.
We don't need mechanics anymore; we need technicians. It also takes a different kind of service adviser to deal with customers today than it did five or 15 years ago.
We still need mechanics but they need to be the same kids that spend most of their day in a robotics lab. We need some of those kids to also love to work on cars and we have to be able to offer them a comparable career to what they can find doing that other type of work.
It just isn't possible to tell a customer that all cars act this way, it's the way they came from the factory. You can't get away with that anymore. As vehicles get more complex, the financial makeup of the service department is changing, too.
It is a different world in today's dealership. Different styles, different people. Different vehicles, too, with electric and fuel cell powertrains bringing new challenges. Hiring will be different from now on, and longtime employees will have to be re-trained, whether they like it or not.
Articles like yours prove that the retraining has to start somewhere other than the bays.
Yet despite all the change, it's probably better all around for everybody.
Meanwhile, anyone need a set of points and a condenser?
Sure, there are a lot of engines that use them that are still in service.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20170403/RETAIL05/304039950/1147
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The worst part right now is in knowing what dealer this is. It's knowing what this will do to the shop first in morale and then the quality of the work they will put out. The corporation that this tech works for owns numerous dealers in his area and this is a decision coming from the dealers corporate warranty clerk. That means it's likely going to happen in most if not all of the stores that this billionaire owner has. When everything does start falling apart even more than it already is, there is no doubt the techs will be burdened with the blame and same insults we have had to deal with in the past especially as the service department's revolving door starts to spin faster and faster. I can well imagine how the up-sales of stuff is going to increase as the remaining techs struggle to make ends meet. Then when a service writer and tech get "caught" overselling they will be dealt with and the poor dealer was just another innocent victim. Never mind the fact that through a series of punishment and reward the system flat out trains the behavior. It's really troubling knowing who this dealer is and knowing there is little to nothing that can be done about it, or should I say little to nothing that I can do about it.
I already set the wheels in motion to connect the tech with a great independent shop who will treat him fairly and value his skills. KIA corporate who made this agreement with this dealer clearly does not.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20170417/RETAIL06/304179922/1147
Average weekly earnings of dealership employees rose 2.6 percent, boosting total annual compensation to an average of $69,000 per employee. Szakaly said that means dealership employees earn one of the highest average salaries of any industry. The average weekly earning per employee was $1,122.
The battle to hire service technicians helped drive up pay, said Szakaly.
"The service-tech shortage is reflected in the rising wages and earnings," he said. "That's why you see these rising wages in what you pay people so you can attract people to the industry."
Part of me thinks that since the rear diff is being replaced anyway, why not drive the old one until it seizes or, what's the worst that could happen? I imagine collateral damage is what they are afraid of....
Maybe it is just a diametrically opposed situation for dealerships: Dealers want to sell new cars. Repairs (outside of warranty, in particular) are an indicator of longer terms of ownership. If you frustrate the owners just enough that they don't want the car anymore, but not so much that they don't want the brand, then perhaps you'll drive more sales!
That's $30/hr. Hardly poverty level.
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Plumbers with a 5 year apprentice program make $50 an hour.
Funny enough, his nickname is "Doc," and he was a GM master tech. He bailed out of the dealership business many years ago for the reasons you cite here, and he now has his own shop. He doesn't work on other peoples' cars much anymore, though, and mostly buys, fixes, and sells cars. He makes a good living at it (from what I could gather).
He was at my place to buy our 2010 Forester, which was totalled in a crash about six weeks ago. The car itself was a quick ten-minute discussion/walk around, but then we were standing in my driveway talking about vehicles, the auto tech trade, etc., for another forty minutes (and I could have easily spent the rest of the day chatting with him!). He was supposed to stop by again on Saturday morning to retrieve the car, but didn't show up.
Turns out, his wife had a stroke the day prior (Friday). He said that she was going to be (mostly) okay, and asked if it was okay to wait until Monday on the car. I laughed and said for him to just give me a call when it was high enough on his priority list to worry about. He has a lot more important things on his mind right now than another crashed car!
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That's also before the tech would be spending 5000-10000 on tools for the year. ...
Either way, the $69K/yr was for dealership employees as a whole, not techs, specifically. According to the article you linked.
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2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
If you really think that is good money, you should put in an application since the job will be open real soon.
FWIW
Walmart truck drivers are advertised to make double that.....
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Anyone that thinks $30/hr isn't a good wage is out of touch with the blue collar world.
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
$30/hour with typical union benefits that are only matched in the public sector, now your're talking! I suppose in the private sector, you'll find financial companies (banks) can match or exceed the gold-plated public-sector benefits.
Teachers don't get paid enough? Well, they only work about 9 months/year, and get just about every holiday ever invented in all of history. You have to look at the benefits, and time off is certainly a benefit.
But seriously. No one, IMO, living in say Denver or Peoria is high on the hog on $46K a year. Oh, sure, you can knit your own iron pants from steel wool and harvest dandelions from the highway median, but really, $46K for a family of 4 is not a lot of money anywhere in the USA.
Fact is, wages for the average middle class person, adjusted for inflation, haven't risen in decades.
They are?
*looks around*
Huh.
Are there unions for auto techs?
I wonder if Southern CA auto repair shop industry has a similar lower-skilled labor force in its ranks.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
There's always a reason for the high prices--and it might not be scenery.
And NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation, too. Makes CA look like South Dakota in that regard.
If so, then flushing the differential fluid and putting in an additive might help.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/k-w-chemical-trans-x-posi-trac-limited-slip-gear-oil-additive-7-oz.-402508/7070977-p&c3ch=PLA&c3nid=7070977-P?iv_=__iv_p_1_a_214327102_g_12425515822_w_aud-48166469375:pla-90552023637_h_9009734_ii__d_c_v__n_g_x_pla_y_6201684_f_online_o_7070977-P_z_US_i_en_j_90552023637_s__vi__&utm_source=ACQ&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&utm_content=shoppingcampaigns&gclid=CjwKEAjw_uvHBRDUkumF0tLFp3cSJACAIHMYNoAVtE6IVCLBdz8qvgTViDNKTTNcbrZJrSyWZkR5-RoC3FPw_wcB
Simple! Don't make hard right turns or slow left turns!
See, didn't you miss me?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
My name is Steve and I am not sure what Master Mechanic Title encompasses these days. But I am a moterhead son of a motorhead who was a son of a mechanical engineer (aviation). My dad and his brothers all worked for big three, one retired from ford, my dad went on to computers and my other uncle started his own shop.
So i have had a wrench in my hand when i was able to hold it without dropping it.
I've only owned one new car in my 56 years the rest i bought and fixed up.
At any rate, I tutored under master mechanics most of my life aka my uncles, and have self taught myself to rebuild automatic transmission, building stroker 383's, and I pretty much pull apart anything and find out whats wrong and put it back together and get it running like new.
I also hold a electronics degree and that lately has been of little use to me in finding out whats wrong with my car. I've posted a thread concerning the issue...if you want to take a stab at it its crank /no start in the blazer thread.
I work on poor folks vehicles these days mosty. Its a need that isn't out there. I charge them 30.00 per hour plus parts but i also charge the travel time to go get parts since nearest parts store is 1 hour away.
All in all i am still reasonable for the folks around here and i do it without fancy equipment. Just my wrenchs, my VOM, and a test probe.
When it comes to doing valve jobs and seats i take it to a shop that the guy will rent time on his machine to do the seats and valves.
Have great evening y'all
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