A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

xwesx

I dropped that same car off at the dealership today to have the short block replaced (under warranty, due to terms of a class action settlement). It consumes a ridiculous amount of oil, and apparently that is a "thing" with these early FB25 engines.

I'd like to see pictures of that job! It's been a long time since I pulled an engine out of a Subaru.

Mr_Shiftright

Doc--how did you repair the wiring---solder + heat shrink at the breaks or did you replace entire runs of wire with new harness, etc?

thecardoc3

xwesx said:

I'd like to see pictures of that job! It's been a long time since I pulled an engine out of a Subaru.

It takes less than an hour to have one out and on the engine stand.

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Doc--how did you repair the wiring---solder + heat shrink at the breaks or did you replace entire runs of wire with new harness, etc?

Just repaired the damage. Some of the wires needed jumpers spliced and soldered in. It took longer to clean the mess they left behind than to repair the wiring.

xwesx

thecardoc3 said:

xwesx said:

I'd like to see pictures of that job! It's been a long time since I pulled an engine out of a Subaru.

It takes less than an hour to have one out and on the engine stand.

That's encouraging! It takes me closer to three hours, but that's likely a tool and familiarity issue; the outcome is still the same.

henryn

One of my neighbors is a pretty fair shade tree mechanic. He actually worked for Houston Metro at one time, working on the buses. Drinking issues keep him from holding a regular job, which is a shame, but …

I often pay him to do repairs that I don’t want to tackle, but that are not too big to take on in my driveway. A few years ago, the air temperature control valve went out in my 2006 Tahoe. The passenger side was getting only hot air. I researched the problem, bought the replacement part, found a video on YouTube, and then chickened out and paid my neighbor $50 to install it. I have sent several of my friends and co-workers to him for tune-ups and brake jobs. He often borrows my jacks / jack stands / hand tools, he accumulates such things and then loses them.

A few months back he tackled replacing the transmission in an Impala (2006? Thereabouts). He wouldn’t ordinarily tackle a job that big, but this was for his son’s girlfriend, so away he went. I looked it up, found a video on YouTube, which he watched (and came back and watched again). The professional on YouTube had that transmission out on the floor in 30 minutes flat. In all fairness, he had the car up on a lift and dropped the transmission from the bottom, using air wrenches. My neighbor spent an entire weekend getting the old transmission out, working only with floor jacks and hand tools. But he DID get it done.

kyfdx

That's admirable.

I actually repaired a leaky toilet, last month. $6 part, and 30 minutes watching videos. Saved me $150.
That doesn't happen very often in my house.

thecardoc3

xwesx said:

thecardoc3 said:

It takes less than an hour to have one out and on the engine stand.

That's encouraging! It takes me closer to three hours, but that's likely a tool and familiarity issue; the outcome is still the same.

I pull the engine when I do head gaskets on them, its easier on the old body to do it that way and the time it takes to do them that way is almost exactly the same as what it takes someone to do them in the car. (right around five hours, six for the DOHC)

xwesx

thecardoc3 said:

I pull the engine when I do head gaskets on them, its easier on the old body to do it that way and the time it takes to do them that way is almost exactly the same as what it takes someone to do them in the car. (right around five hours, six for the DOHC)

I agree! It is so much easier to do the heads with the engine out.

Mr_Shiftright

And while you're at it, you can replace your Subaru CVT, because it's gonna need it soon enough.

thecardoc3

I glanced at Automotive news this morning and found these.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829995/1434Chronic shortage of service techs threatens dealership profits
The chronic shortage of service technicians is growing even more acute, threatening dealership profits from fixed operations. 8/20/18

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829989/1434
Body shops also facing acute tech shortage 8/20/18

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829987/1434
More dealerships are creating initiatives to hire, train and retain techs 8/20/2018

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829981/1147
Suppliers help promote tech recruitment. Automotive suppliers and equipment manufacturers, like automakers, are working to boost the supply of well-trained service technicians at dealerships.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180739918/technicians-job-isnt-what-it-used-to-be
Technician's job isn't what it used to be Editor David Kushma's column on auto repair personnel statistics should have someone concerned -- maybe the consumer.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829982/1147
Who pays for techs' online training? As cars and trucks evolve, service technicians routinely keep up with the changes -- and maintain their professional certifications -- by taking small-scale online refresher courses.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829984/1147
Automakers broaden efforts to help dealerships train, keep service techs
Automakers and suppliers, amid a chronic industry shortage of technicians, are ramping up efforts to help dealers find, hire and keep techs. Such initiatives include training, apprentice and scholarship programs, often with emphasis on recruiting military veterans.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829985/1147
Mentoring, leadership advocated to boost tiny share of women techs
Just over 1 percent of the 317,000-plus service technicians at new-vehicle dealerships are women, but that share seems likely to grow.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829983/1147
Dealers say they benefit from paying for service techs' certification
Dealers say that paying for service technicians' certification training and exams boosts employee retention and customer satisfaction.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829993/1147
Postsecondary schools confront tough challenges to train tomorrow's techs
Colleges and trade schools are partnering with dealers and automakers to train tomorrow 's mechanics.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829988/1147
Southeast Toyota gets ahead of tech turnover game, keeps fighting
Keeping experienced and talented technicians is important to a dealership's bottom line. Southeast Toyota estimates a dealership must spend nearly $5,000, not including the cost of lost work hours, to bring a technician up to the level of master tech.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20180820/RETAIL05/180829994/1147
Battling the tech challenge, again and again and again ...
An National Automobile Dealers Association initiative aims to boost the number of auto techs, and centralize information about tech training and scholarships.

I didn't even hit the "load more " button. Do you think they are starting to notice that there aren't enough technicians? Are they going to really start changing thigs and do something about it?

Mr_Shiftright

I think they are just "tinkering" with the problem, not addressing it head-on.

Why Germany Is So Much Better At Training Workers

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

And while you're at it, you can replace your Subaru CVT, because it's gonna need it soon enough.

CVT. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I think they are just "tinkering" with the problem, not addressing it head-on.

Why Germany Is So Much Better At Training Workers

That's a four year old article where some effort was put into helping attract people to the trades, but there just isn't that much being done today. In the article even Germany had people thinking about more college and a bachelors degree than entering one of the trades.

Posting that same information on a couple technicians websites led to some one hundred responses. The majority of the techs that wrote them still feel that those articles are more about simply trying to attract anyone into the trade with no intention of making any changes that would make being in it worthwhile.

Mr_Shiftright

It's a cultural issue in America, even more so than in Europe, and changing cultural attitudes takes a lot of time and a great deal of effort. Things like "mechanics get dirty" and "mechanics are cheats" and "mechanics are not educated people".

Nonsense like this dies hard.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's a cultural issue in America, even more so than in Europe, and changing cultural attitudes takes a lot of time and a great deal of effort. Things like "mechanics get dirty" and "mechanics are cheats" and "mechanics are not educated people".

Nonsense like this dies hard.

Especially when one meets a "mechanic" that is dirty, a cheat/liar, and not educated/skilled/competent to do great work even if they wanted to anyway. All of the above has been encountered by me.

Mr_Shiftright

Well sure, every stereotype contains a grain of truth. We could find miscreants in any profession on earth.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well sure, every stereotype contains a grain of truth. We could find miscreants in any profession on earth.

Do STEALERships otherwise known as dealerships get a free pass for charging 3X more than a reasonable shop for similar work? It is a free country, but some might consider excessively high rates "gouging" unsuspecting customers.

Mr_Shiftright

The labor rates are posted at the door. Take 'em or leave 'em.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

The labor rates are posted at the door. Take 'em or leave 'em.

What about how much time they charge for simple tasks?

roadburner

As far as I'm concerned, dealers and/or indie shops can choose to charge whatever they want- and I can choose to patronize them or not.

Mr_Shiftright

Well if they're so simple, you can do them yourself!

thecardoc3

andres3 said:

Do STEALERships otherwise known as dealerships get a free pass for charging 3X more than a reasonable shop for similar work? It is a free country, but some might consider excessively high rates "gouging" unsuspecting customers.

My rates are higher than the local dealers. Then again my cost of doing business per hour is higher than theirs is too. Take any one of those dealers and they only have to tool up and train for what they sell. They aren't required to do any more than that. I end up buying the same tools that they have to have, which actually cost me more than they do the dealer, but I also tool up for another nine manufacturers and I don't even work full time anymore so I have fewer cars to spread the expense over. That means if I am to be there to help someone they have to be prepared to pay what it costs or else they have to try to find someone else that can do what I can do.

thecardoc3

@imidazol97 In one of the other threads this came up. I figured instead of going any further with it there, bring it back here.
My Cobalt is showing signs of inner CV joint wear at 120,000, making a heavy rattle on slight bumps at low speeds.

When an inner joint goes bad it has a very distinct symptom. As the inner joint turns or the suspension has to jounce and rebound it has to plunge to take up any travel. When they wear it is the cup that usually starts failing preventing the joint from being able to do that. So if the joint cannot plunge, then the changing length of the drive axle causes the engine and transaxle to get pushed side to side. So it doesn't so much rattle, it creates a vibration that has a noticeable lateral effect. In many cases putting the car on a hoist, raising the hood and allowing the suspension to hang while putting the transmission in gear and speeding the engine up and spinning the wheels will allow you to see the engine/transaxle moving side to side in the engine bay.

So if that's not what is wrong then what else might it be? One of the first things to do is to try and figure out in what direction the sound is coming from. This can be done with one person but in many cases works better with two. Noises can reach your ears three different ways. Directly, transmitted, or by an echo.

In the case of a sound that is heard directly from its source, you should be able to point in the direction that it is coming from. With two people in the car, where the lines from each of them pointing meet, that's where the origin of the sound will be found.

In some cases maybe you both point to the ground through the floor. Putting the car in the air you look and there is nothing in that location that could possibly create any noise. At this point the other two possibilities are in play, it is either being transmitted to that point or else the sound is echoing off of the road. Echo's are often the way a driver hears a vehicle noise when driving past a parked car or along side building especially with the windows open. Now you have to figure out where that angle that you think you hear the sound coming from reflects back to the car.

A transmitted noise can be one of the more difficult sounds to track down. An example that I worked through recently was a noise that could be clearly heard just to the left of my feet when I was driving and hitting bumps. The vehicle had been diagnosed by a DIY'er as needing struts. My wife riding in the passengers side of the car heard the sound to the right of her feet. The only things in those two locations were the locations where the rear of the engine cradle bolted to the body of the car. For the record, those bolts were not loose. That means the sound is being generated by something that is attached to the cradle such as suspension system components, transmitted to the cradle attachment point and then broadcasted from there. With that information, now the next step was just a matter of putting the vehicle through some stress to see what movement would generate the noise.

The noise BTW was a hard clunk that would have you think a wheel was falling off of the car.

A hard stop at 5mph made no sound. There was no bouncing front to back or side to side, just a lowering of the nose and then a rise to stable when stopped.

The sound occurred more driving the car on a rough road when one wheel hit a bump or dip and the other did not. If they both moved the sound did not occur.

The sound did not occur on a loaded turn either left or right.

The sound did not occur hitting the throttle for a hard acceleration, it did not occur braking.

I could make the sound occur at will by turning the car rapidly side to side. That was all that was needed to know exactly what was wrong with this one and it wasn't the struts.

Putting the information here to use, see if you can figure out what was wrong. What would you now manually inspect to prove where you think the sound would be coming from. It's not a diagnosis until you find movement where there shouldn't be any.

guitarzan

Engine mounts? Due to me being uninitiated, that is the only part that comes to my mind. I suspect that mounts might generate noise in more of your tests such as hard stops, but again, what would I know?

thecardoc3

When trying to teach someone how to diagnose we have to allow them to come up with what they believe to be a plausible source of the symptom.  Your answer at this moment is that it might be the engine mounts. Ok, let's run with that for the moment. What could you do from the front seat of the car to potentially rule in or out whether the engine mounts are genuinely a likely possibility? 

If you can come up with an answer to that and you can make the noise occur then great, get the car in the shop and inspect the mounts to prove that they are bad. 

If you cannot come up with an idea of how to prove it while on the road, now you might have to rely on simply inspecting them. There is a problem here however because there is room for you to find a bad mount or two even though they might not be the actual source of the noise that the owner is concerned about. 

The main thing right now is the more insight you can get about the problem the less time you will need to spend physically testing and inspecting things.

Mr_Shiftright

Have you ever used remote microphones in such diagnoses?

Do you find that a fair number of "rebuilt" axle kits are junk?

guitarzan

thecardoc3 said:

What could you do from the front seat of the car to potentially rule in or out whether the engine mounts are genuinely a likely possibility?

To separate some rotational problems from movement problems, rev the engine in park/neutral. That generates rotational torque which I think would isolate the mounts versus drive shafts (?). What did that do in this case? Any noise?

thecardoc3

Have you ever used remote microphones in such diagnoses?

I rarely get out the chassis ears for this kind of a problem. I will if I have to though.

Do you find that a fair number of "rebuilt" axle kits are junk?

No I don't. But that's what happens when you source the right parts first and don't go for the cheapest stuff out there.

thecardoc3

guitarzan said:

To separate some rotational problems from movement problems, rev the engine in park/neutral. That generates rotational torque which I think would isolate the mounts versus drive shafts (?). What did that do in this case? Any noise?

That wouldn't have done much to try and help prove if the mounts were bad or not. To check them simply open the hood and using one foot on the brake and one foot on the throttle put the car in drive and load the engine up against the brakes. If the mounts are bad as in torn, you will see and feel the engine try to roll over in the engine bay. Now repeat that check in reverse to check the other mounts. Again this check is to see if they are physically torn/broken.

The engine mounts were not the problem this time.

BTW. A lot of cars today use computer controlled dampening in the mounts and many are fluid filled. That's another whole set of routines way over and above what we have the time to look at right now.

thecardoc3

I edited out the overview from this response and only have the observations that were made during the road test and what they meant below. What's more important than what was wrong is how this is used. You have seen me demonstrate diagnostic routines with electronics and other high tech systems. What young techs need to learn is the very same base routines that are used with the high tech stuff are in play even when diagnosing other mechanical issues like a suspension noise. Every diagnostic has a discovery of some piece of information about the problem you are trying to figure out. In some cases that discovery can directly lead to a solution, in others it may be necessary to try and change the way the discovery was made to see if a change in the symptom can be observed. Where some people make a mistake about the work that techs do is in thinking that someone can simply learn to do the high tech stuff without first mastering the mechanical side of the job. That's essentially asking someone to run before they learn how to walk.

thecardoc3 said:

The noise BTW was a hard clunk that would have you think a wheel was falling off of the car.

A hard stop at 5mph made no sound. There was no bouncing front to back or side to side, just a lowering of the nose and then a rise to stable when stopped.

This was actually just one of the checks of the shocks and struts. The shocks and struts on todays cars are so strong that it is difficult to push on the bumper and try to get the car to bounce even when one of them is worn. Using the brakes applies a hundred times the force than I'm going to deliver with my hands and arms. Any one corner of the car that rebounds more than a single time deserves a closer look. An experienced technician/driver will usually feel differences in dampening at any one or more corners of the car when just driving too.

thecardoc3 said:

The sound occurred more driving the car on a rough road when one wheel hit a bump or dip and the other did not. If they both moved the sound did not occur.

This one is a big clue. If one wheel moves vertically the sound could be observed, if both wheels moved together the sound did not occur.

thecardoc3 said:

The sound did not occur on a loaded turn either left or right.

Usually associated to a wheel bearing issue, a growl would tend to change in intensity depending on which way the vehicle was turning and how sharply the turn was being executed.While the owner didn't say that a growl such as a failing wheel bearing was or was not present, it is necessary to know whether that kind of an issue is present or not as part of the investigation. A loose wheel or wheel bearing could also clunk or even stop clunking when turning loads are applied. For this vehicle this check confirmed that there was no concern abut the health of the wheel bearings etc.

thecardoc3 said:

The sound did not occur hitting the throttle for a hard acceleration, it did not occur braking.

This is one of the checks that would help reveal if a control arm bushing was or was not a potential cause for the noise. Something that has to be watched very closely is where the steering wheel is positioned when traveling in a straight line. If a control arm bushing has excessive movement it can cause a clunking sound under a number of conditions and accelerating and/or hitting the brakes are some of them. Another thing that will happen is the steering wheel will move slightly to one side under acceleration, and the opposite side under braking. It might be only a couple degrees but it is enough to notice if you are looking for it. This check did not reveal any noise of movement of the steering wheel. That made the control arm bushings an unlikely source of the noise. This also serves to rule out the cradle mounts (if used) and bolts as a likely cause.

thecardoc3 said:

I could make the sound occur at will by turning the car rapidly side to side. That was all that was needed to know exactly what was wrong with this one and it wasn't the struts.

I had to word this one carefully so to not write the answer to what was wrong. I used "turn the car side to side" when I could easily have stated "sway the car side to side". Do you know the source of the noise yet?

thecardoc3 said:

Putting the information here to use, see if you can figure out what was wrong. What would you now manually inspect to prove where you think the sound would be coming from. It's not a diagnosis until you find movement where there shouldn't be any.

The sway bar link on the passengers side had one of the joints worn and loose in the socket. If one wheel moved, that loose joint clunked as it put a load to the sway bar which was being held by the link attached to the other side. If both wheels moved the other side would move the bar preventing the loose joint from having to push or pull on the bar first. A sway bar helps keep the body of the car more level on turns. Swaying side to side causes the suspension to be moving in opposite directions and that is why the sound could be made to occur on demand.

The reason the sound appeared to be coming from just to the left of my feet as the driver is that it was being transmitted to the body by the cradle and wasn't being heard directly. This was an easy one with one single failure. It can really get interesting when there are multiple worn items that are easily observed when trying to prove if one of them is causing the symptom that the owner is concerned about. It's not uncommon to have a car present with multiple worn components that while they are problems that do need to be dealt with they don't have to be "the problem" that had the owner bring the car in for service.

Mr_Shiftright

I've noticed with bad control arms (at least on a front drive car) that you can notice that condition when you brake, and then you feel a very very subtle further movement forward.

qbrozen

I figured end link by the 2nd clue but I've experienced it before since they are a known weak point in Volvo S70s.

isellhondas

andres3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well sure, every stereotype contains a grain of truth. We could find miscreants in any profession on earth.

Do STEALERships otherwise known as dealerships get a free pass for charging 3X more than a reasonable shop for similar work? It is a free country, but some might consider excessively high rates "gouging" unsuspecting customers.

You know, when you use terms like that you lose most of our audience.

Do you really think dealerships charge three times more than Indy Shops? Really?

And when you get some miserable problem that your Indy guy can't fix, be sure when you grovel into a dealership to let them know what you call them on public forums.

Probably first in line for your warranty work, huh?

thecardoc3

isellhondas said:

And when you get some miserable problem that your Indy guy can't fix, be sure when you grovel into a dealership to let them know what you call them on public forums.

I'm not sure that they care, and it's not like they are really worried about actually being able to fix difficult issues when all they need to do is sell him a different car. Didn't it ever seem strange that they have never stood up for their service departments or techs when someone tries to cut them down like that?

andres3

isellhondas said:

andres3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well sure, every stereotype contains a grain of truth. We could find miscreants in any profession on earth.

Do STEALERships otherwise known as dealerships get a free pass for charging 3X more than a reasonable shop for similar work? It is a free country, but some might consider excessively high rates "gouging" unsuspecting customers.

You know, when you use terms like that you lose most of our audience.

Do you really think dealerships charge three times more than Indy Shops? Really?

And when you get some miserable problem that your Indy guy can't fix, be sure when you grovel into a dealership to let them know what you call them on public forums.

Probably first in line for your warranty work, huh?

How's 1 hour for an easy battery change ('06 A3)? Not all the Audi dealerships are the same, this is one particular dealership that seems to enjoy charging for excessive time on labor. Their labor rate in 2018 is $165 or $169. I'm not saying all dealerships are this way, but they do exist.

The best shop charges around $100/hour as an indy. I wouldn't be suprised if they only charged .25 hours for a battery change. The A3 is much like a GTI with the battery up front in the engine compartment under the hood. I don't think there is anything on an Audi/VW the indy shop couldn't handle. For warranty work of course it's the dealership, but I avoid one particular dealership.

henryn

The battery died in the 2008 Passat the last time it was in the VW dealer service department for an oil change. Rather convenient, actually. They charged $195 for the battery (compared to +/- $150 at WalMart), and zero for the installation.

The Autozone down the street will install a new battery "in most cars" for free, As will the O'Reillys Auto Parts.

In my experience, most places that sell car batteries will install the battery for no charge. Just make sure they're not charging you a truly exorbitant amount for the battery itself.

I read somewhere that BMW's require a new battery to be "registered" (not sure of that word). That is, use of a special electronics tool to make the software in the car aware of the new battery. One reason I don't want a used out of warranty BMW. It is legitimate or at least semi-legitimate for the dealer to charge you a fee when they use their very expensive special equipment to interface with your car. But why would you want to own a car that requires that?

Exception if you're so well off you don't mind the money. But if you're that well off, what are you doing with a car that's so old it needs a new battery?

About the "three times more than indy" -- I haven't encountered that. More? Yes, I've encountered that. Probably the worst dealership service department crimes (using the word loosely) are the ones that recommend a lot of expensive maintenance not required or recommended by the factory.

guitarzan

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well sure, every stereotype contains a grain of truth. We could find miscreants in any profession on earth.

Every OEM dealership has either treated me poorly or cheated me, and this includes Toyota, Acura, Ford, and for my motorcycle, the only Honda motorsports dealer in the entire region. For me the bad about OEM vehicle dealership service is not a stereotype, it is an empirical rule.

I have learned from my hobby that the motorsports dealers are the same as car dealers. All they want to do is perform oil changes and sell weed whackers. At the same time they put 150 ft-lbs of torque on the oil filter and create nightmares by screwing up even the simplest of jobs. They seem to stay in business and make up for it with their competing sales interests. The only dealers that bikers universally recommend are Harley dealers. I think they are doing something different for their technicians. (Perhaps the Cardoc has insight into this.) Sport bikers ubiquitously warn about any dealer whatsoever touching their Honda, Suzuki, or Kawasaki due to nothing but nightmares.

isellhondas said:

And when you get some miserable problem that your Indy guy can't fix, be sure when you grovel into a dealership to let them know what you call them on public forums.

isellhondas consider that the only reason a dealership service department should exist is for warranty work and for solving highly complex problems that only they would know to fix, as they admittedly have the premier resources and network of expertise to do so.

I think it reasonable to advise people to generally avoid dealership service departments. Not that my indy guys have been perfect, but they have never padded the job or wrote up work that they did not actually do. And they seem to own torque wrenches. Apparently dealer techs cannot afford these (?).

Mr_Shiftright

You want a nice clean waiting room with a coffee machine? You want maybe a loaner car, or free shuttle service? Nice clean restroom? Chances are you won't get that at an Indy shop. So the dealer rates include the overhead for all these extra perks you get when you go there.

roadburner

henryn said:

I read somewhere that BMW's require a new battery to be "registered" (not sure of that word). That is, use of a special electronics tool to make the software in the car aware of the new battery. One reason I don't want a used out of warranty BMW. It is legitimate or at least semi-legitimate for the dealer to charge you a fee when they use their very expensive special equipment to interface with your car. But why would you want to own a car that requires that?

Exception if you're so well off you don't mind the money. But if you're that well off, what are you doing with a car that's so old it needs a new battery?

Please, PLEASE keep repeating that to every car buyer you know- and whatever you do, DO NOT mention that there is an app/adapter that allows you to register a BMW/Mini/RR battery in a couple of minutes(not to mention dozens of other coding, diagnostic, and maintenance procedures).

Could you also broadcast that oil changes are at least $500, and tires are $5000/set?

Your help in keeping BMW used car values depressed is sincerely appreciated!

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but that app/adapter also costs you money. It's still a royal PITA for the average owner. Most aren't motivated to search for software and adapters and learn how to do that, or other diagnostic. They just want to drop in a battery and go somewhere.

Worse yet, if you ignore the registration, you can create more problems for you and your car.

What other automaker requires this, if any?

roadburner

The app has gone up in price from when I bought it, but it's extremely simple to use.
That said, the more I think about it, the more BMW scares off those "average owners"- not to mention the poseurs and "wearers" who wet their pants at the thought of opening the hood, the better I like it.

roadburner

I think Mercedes may require it as well.

Mr_Shiftright

Some people want nothing to do with fixing their own cars. I suspect the majority of BMW owners are no different.

I do what I know how to do and what I have the tools for. If I'm going to gear up for some new task, either with buying the right tool or the right books/software to learn how to do it--it has to be worth the time and money I spend.

thecardoc3

roadburner said:

I think Mercedes may require it as well.

and GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, plus others.... Specific models and not necessarily the whole product line. It's often called something different but the result is to reset charging system adaptives.

Mr_Shiftright

Seems to me that they could make this an on-board process. Just punch in your battery specs to the DIC.

henryn

thecardoc3 said:

roadburner said:

I think Mercedes may require it as well.

and GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, plus others.... Specific models and not necessarily the whole product line. It's often called something different but the result is to reset charging system adaptives.

Never heard of it. Changed a lot of batteries in my time, never heard of this until I read it somewhere about a BMW. Which specific GM or Ford models require this? I changed the battery on a recent model Cadillac SRX (2016?) not that long ago, didn't require anything special. And a 2014 Ford Mustang GT last year, nothing special required.

Mr_Shiftright

I think some Mercedes also require battery registration.

The BMW dealer will nick you maybe $375 for the battery and 1/2 labor for the 5 minute registration job.

Nice.

Autozone and such will probably charge you around $200 for a battery. Not sure which APP roadburner was referring to---maybe CARLY?

roadburner

With the exception of a few of the newer AGM batteries I've found that a BMW battery is cheaper than the equivalent AZ piece- at least with respect to my E36 and E90 3ers. And yes, the app is Carly. I also have a Schwaben/Foxwell for my OBD I(and older) Bimmers.
Again, all this "Oh my paws and whiskers! BMWs are SO expensive to fix." is a godsend for enthusiasts like me.
Carry on!

Mr_Shiftright

They are expensive to fix. So are a lot of other cars.