By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
The largest percentage of those types are found in Quickie Lube franchises as well as a LOT of other franchise shops. Next in line would be new car dealers, and finally independent shops.AS a matter of fact, when I wrote my monthly automotive column for a local newspaper I advised finding a good dealer service department or indie shop and using them exclusively, as selecting shops on price alone virtually ensured that your car will be serviced by incompetents.
I recently found the file that contains most of those articles, and I'll post excerpts from a couple.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
So you replace my timing belt and the tensioner breaks in 10 miles. That's probably your fault. You have to eat this, fix my car, and make things right. Then, afterwards, you can review what the tech did wrong, or failed to notice.
Everybody who works on cars is going to have a bad day. You just have to man up and learn from it. The customer doesn't need a lecture on your struggles. He probably has his own.
Of course, shops have to "fire" some customers now and then--they are cranky, unreasonable, or just plain hustlers.
But trying to cover up a screw-up is a big No No.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Is it costs that prevent companies from using both port and direct injection? Seems like from the video using both solves the problem. And Toyota is apparently already doing that with some of its engines. Maybe Honda and other companies are next?
J.A.
A friends son graduated from an automotive school and went
looking for a new job. A local Chevrolet dealer hired him
for the quick service team at a princely sum of 10 or so
coconuts per hr. After 6 months or so, he wanted to switch
to general repairs in the shop. They agreed and put him on
shop flat rate at the same pay.
My friend advised his son to stick it out for a couple
months and show them what he is capable of. He went back to
the S.M. after 2 successful months and was told that they
couldn't afford to pay him more. He went to another local
dealer and was offered 6 coconuts more than what he was
making.
He went back to his present employer and asked for a
matching raise. They offered to raise his pay by 3 coconuts
only, so he gave a two week notice. He was told that he
couldn't leave as one of the many papers that he signed when
he started working was a Non-Compete agreement. He said
"Good, I'm leaving anyway. I have no money for you to sue
me." After he started his new job, the service manager told
him that his previous employer called them up threatening to
sue for poaching one of their employees. All this for a new
guy just trying to get started in the trade. Bodes well for
the future, doesn't it? Sadly those "incompetents" who given proper training and support could grow to become tomorrow's master technicians no longer work alongside a master technician who could help guide them, double check their work and when necessary teach them how to avoid the common mistakes as well as the not-so common ones. There is no shortage of people both inside and outside of the trade who should shoulder the blame for that, but as I keep saying that doesn't solve the problem it only perpetuates it.
As for fuel, I always ran Top Tier fuels(I run it in all my cars save the Wrangler).
I wasn't seeing any issues with the N55 motor when I worked at BMW, so it gets 10k miles/1 year changes- using BMW 0W-30. Ditto for the naturally aspirated N12 motor in the Clubman.
Bottom line, I wouldn't worry about it. As an interesting aside, BMW offers a proprietary chemical valve cleaning that works pretty well. Just about the time I left my dealer was evaluating a similar process offered by Valvoline and my SA has told me it seemed to work really well also. That said, all the hand-wringing over GDI will encourage some dealers/shops to push valve cleaning-non-GDI or not-when in some cases it simply isn't necessary. Luckily, I have a first-rate SA; when I asked him about using the BMW procedure on my non-GDI Club Sport at 140k he said, "You've always run high quality fuel and maintain it obsessively- it's not necessary."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Then, send in an oil sample for at least the first two or three times you change your oil. You can use many providers; I use blackstone-labs.com. Include a TBN (extra $10 at Blackstone) the first couple of times so that you can see how well your oil is buffering acids. The oil analysis will show you how your engine is wearing internally, and it will also provide you feedback on fuel dilution. Once you establish a baseline on the TBN, you don't need to keep ordering those (I use it for determining reasonable OCIs for extended intervals).
Equipped with this information, you can then modify your behavior with the car (OCIs, fuel type/grade, additives, trip frequency and duration, etc.) and with an idea of what results you might expect, as well as being able to continue to see how the oil looks over time (whether doing samples at every OCI or less frequently).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
so what was changed in the N55 that would prevent carbon buildup?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
My wife (now ex) had a bigger penchant for fast driving than I do. She presently owns (as a second car, strictly for fun) a ground pounding Camaro. I drove that thing once, it is scary. I would estimate sub 12 second 1/4 mile times. Like I said, maybe flogging the h-e-double-l out of it might have helped.
Back when I owned a Cadillac with the Northstar V8, the Cadillac forums had several master mechanics who stated loud and clear that you needed to (at least occasionally) "drive it like you stole it".
And a large portion of problems are also created by inexperienced service writers.
I have seen some very good techs bail on a dealership to go to another one, because the service writer was not communicating very well with the customers.
And then, on the flip side, you have customers who there is no way to make them happy.
So it gives a new meaning to "customer complaint".
NO!
Not in the real world with a paying customer. The customer is paying for expert professional service. Finding one out of four tires was installed with the word "outside" on the inside of the tire/wheel assembly is simply unacceptable, F grade work.
That was the first direct injection engine I had. Maybe only one, unless my 3L TDI is direct?
If I asked for new wheels these would be the guys mounting tires...that would be self-defeating. I told them to get me new center caps and they did.
I can guarantee that place does a lot of destruction and gets a lot of single-visit customers.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20180630/RETAIL05/180709995/ford-car-dealerships-mechanics
Ford helping dealers recruit shop techs
DETROIT — Ford Motor Co. is working to combat a nationwide shortage of body-shop technicians through a new initiative in collaboration with its dealerships.
The automaker said retirements by baby boomers, while young people aren't taught the advantages of a career in skilled trades, have led to a problem properly staffing its dealers' service bays.
Ford cited estimates that the auto industry will need to hire 45,000 technicians a year through 2026. That can directly affect the quality of repair work.
"It speaks to our ability to service customers," Frederiek Toney, president of the global Ford Customer Service Division, told Automotive News. "A dealer's ability to fix it right the first time and get customers in and out in a timely manner is largely dependent on their capacity to do it."
"The technician is the heart and soul of enabling a great experience for customers." Frederiek Toney, Ford.
A poor customer experience could prove costly to an automaker: The Inter-Industry Conference on Auto Collision Repair estimates that, of owners who had a bad experience with a collision repair, two-thirds get rid of their vehicle within a year and 60 percent change vehicle brands.
Ford is hoping to avoid those negative experiences by engaging students through what Toney calls a series of coordinated grass-roots recruiting efforts to add about 5,000 technicians across its network within two years. Ford dealerships currently have about 30,000 technicians to fill 65,000 service bays across the country.
The automaker plans to add "placement specialists" at dealerships to engage with high schools, junior colleges and military bases to connect with students and teach them about vocational careers. Each dealership will be mapped to a particular school, and it will be responsible for sponsoring students by providing tuition and offering summer internships. And Ford plans to donate thousands of current model-year vehicles, as well as engines and powertrain equipment, for students to work on.
"What we want to do inside Ford is to institutionalize these things if we're going to have a sustainable program to be the bedrock of our ability to provide great customer service for our customers," Toney said.
Toney said Ford already has a number of initiatives in place, but it's now bringing them all together.
"If you talk to every dealer, he or she is doing something; getting them engaged is not the problem," Toney said. "We have all these disparate activities that don't tie together in a way that allow us to be efficient and get results. We're now streamlining those efforts into one national program."
Without the still-unnamed program fully in place, Toney says Ford has recruited about 800 to 900 technicians so far this year and hopes to bump that number to 2,500 by the end of the year. Today, about 40 percent of the students Ford sponsors go to work for its dealerships upon graduation. Ford is hoping to improve that number.
"We're helping them recruit more effectively," Toney said. "It's not just attracting them; we need to retain them."
Toney said Ford was spending "an awful lot" on the endeavor but declined to give specifics.
"Dealers have been asking for this sort of support for a long time," he said.
"The technician is the heart and soul of enabling a great experience for customers."
From the article...
"We're helping them recruit more effectively," Toney said. "It's not just attracting them; we need to retain them." Toney said Ford was spending "an awful lot" on the endeavor but declined to give specifics.
There are currently no reports from technicians that Ford is now paying reasonable/achievable warranty labor times that I am aware of.
Abusive people don't stop at the shop. They continue with family and friends.
A good shop supervises all its employees and doesn't give someone a job he/she can't handle.
A good shop owner has the instinct for picking the right people. Sometimes you can just look at a newbie and tell if there's a light on in there.
You have probably heard me say this in here before. I NEVER leave a lot that has touched my wheels, like a PA inspection station or tire place without checking all 5 lug nuts on all 4 wheels. I have found lug nuts over tightened a couple of times and marched back into the desk at tire shops and complained. One time the guy said something like, "why are you checking them. Do you have a torque wrench or what"? My response was, "no I don't have a torque wrench and I don't think you guys have one either".
Totally ignorant of the fact that breakaway torque can easily vary 50% over the tightening torque. I can grab a few more of his quotes if one isn't enough. How does someone know up front exactly where that limit is at? How does a new tech grow and eventually become a master at the trade if he/she isn't given work that will challenge them on a continuing basis? Now we get to the next page. How are we ever going to attract a steady stream of candidates that are bright shining lights if we don't make the career shine bright enough for them to be attracted to it in the first place?
If she is being harassed, then the shop isn't doing it's job making sure good employees stay there. She could be a barista or on a Board of Directors. The same problem might exist.
As for attracting the best and brightest to a career in automotive repair, that answer is very easy:
You pay them a lot of money.
To do that, you charge customers a lot of money and you provide outstanding service that completely outshines your competition.
If you don't strive for excellence, you will be nothing more than part of the pack, where auto repair is drudgery.
Right after WW II, just about everybody jumped into the used car and car repair business---and a healthy portion of these new opportunists were not all that savory. Just page through any car magazine from the 50s and 60s and look at the cartoons or articles: Yep, they are either mocking or warning against repair shop deceptions. Go look--it's informative.
We could say the same of contractors, plumbers and lawyers. It was easy to fleece the public because demand was so high. Boom-Town!
This unsavory reputation has never really gone away. It behooves the modern repair shop to not just sit and wait around for the general public to improve their bad attitude. One can act the martyr, but what happens to martyrs?
Trust must be won these days. It's no coincidence that many new car dealerships are called "stealerships". That doesn't come from mindless paranoia.
It is true that with the complexity of modern cars, the average car owner who has been "informed" by a consumer advocate is, at best, half-informed or, at worst, badly informed. Nonetheless, this is the only defense he has.
Many shops do not deceive, but they do up-sell. Sometimes the up-sell is actually a good thing--preventive maintenance is often justified.
Nonetheless, it's up to the repair shop to disarm the customer.
People WILL pay, and pay well, for good service and a high level of competence. So what if your shop loses the bottom-feeders? Do you really want that type of customer anyway?
In my neck of the woods, highly skilled, affable (well sort of affable), clean, efficient and friendly repair shops have more business than they know what to do with. And with that success comes pressure--to run a thriving business takes a LOT of work that doesn't even involve cars per se.
Ironically, at $150 an hour, the indie shops in my area are not only outperforming the dealerships, they are undercutting them on the cost of repairs. We now have the somewhat ludicrous situation of dealers sending repair work to the indie shops.
We have a lot of specialty shops in CA, and I think developing a specialty is the way for indie shops to survive and even thrive.
It's getting near impossible for a general repair shop to work error-free on 20 different makes of car.
But if you work on the same or similar cars, day after day, you get pretty darn good at it.
Both shops provide excellent service at a reasonable price- which is why I've patronized them since the mid '80s.
These days I wouldn't be inclined to go to a shop that advertises that they service all makes and models.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Some stuff he'll farm out or just refer.
So I have a network of perhaps 5 different shops. I'd sooner shoot myself than go to the dealer.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
My "network" consists of a Porsche/Audi shop, an auto glass specialist, Brakes and Mufflers, Subaru, Saab & Volvo, BMW, smog certification, and an RV place. Many of these people plan to retire within 5-10 years. I used to have connections to tires and car audio and a big used car operation, but those are all gone now.
I remember when cassette decks were common well into the CD era by OEM carmakers.
GM has announced changes in their diagnostic time approach.
As previously announced in GlobalConnect Message
GCUS-9-5742, GM is making several
improvements to the way Dealers are paid for Technician
diagnostic time. These changes are a result of listening to
your feedback and modifying our processes. Effective with
job cards dated July 1, 2018, GM is pleased to announce the
following changes:
• Increase diagnostic allowances from 0.3 hour maximum
to up to 1.0 hour based on
actual time spent by the technician, impacting over 1,100
select labor operations involving electrical and module
diagnosis
• Increase to the R1234YF refrigerant evacuation and
recovery time allowance from 0.5 to
1.2 hours, enabling thorough and accurate diagnosis and
repair, leading to higher customer satisfaction and reduced
comebacks by fixing vehicles right the first time
• In cases requiring more diagnostic time than typical
Warranty Diagnostic Time, dealers
should utilize Other Labor Hours (OLH)
• Variable diagnostic time is no longer required on 93
labor operations involving trim and
incandescent bulbs. If additional labor time is needed on
these items, dealers should follow the current OLH process
The additional labor allowance should be used with the
understanding that not all claims need a full hour of
diagnosis time. Technician cause and correction comments
must support the diagnostic steps and repair performed. GM
will now require any amount submitted in the Labor Diagnosis
Time field be supported with separate on/off punch times.
This applies to all job cards dated on/after July 1 .
Service Management authorization is not required. GM will
continue to verify Job Cards for accuracy and compliance.
All labor time allowance enhancements will be reflected in
the July 1, 2018, Labor Time Guide publication. Service
Management should announce these changes to Technicians and
Warranty Administrators, covering punch time requirements
and proper claim submission. Additional communication will
follow, providing several examples of how to apply the
diagnosis time and how it impacts existing requirements.
Additional training will be available as part of the July
Emerging Issues broadcast.
It's not perfect but it's a move in the right direction.
My father was a mechanic, I spent more than a few hours around a dealership service department when I was young. Insurance didn’t run the world then, and it was possible for a kid to hang around. We lived out in the country, and I would often after school walk down to the dealership where my father worked and hang out with him until he got off work.
My younger brother followed in that trade, and worked in dealerships for many years. For a short while he was the service director at a new car dealership. I think that job is what drove him to drink, but that’s a different story.
My point is, I do have some experience from both sides of this debate. And yes, “factory pays” being much lower than what “customer pays” is a disgrace, a travesty, and something that ought to be illegal. It is most definitely just flat wrong on the face of it.
Which does not mean that there aren’t a lot of incompetent service technicians out there. That is a different matter altogether.
And then, just for something entirely different, there are the dishonest service departments. Something we have all seen.
Do I have the answers? No. But there are many sides to this argument.
Interesting thing is that when we took out the replacement windshield, installed by the dealer who sold me the car (I insisted on a new windshield even though it was a used car)--Troy pointed out what a crappy job they did.
What's really interesting is the pains they took to cobble it up--aside from putting the glue in the wrong place, they re-glued little plastic clips rather than replacing them, left out grommets, and cracked both the anchoring pedestals on both sides of the exterior trim. They basically massacred it.
I always noticed wind noise and an occasional leak, and just blamed Mini instead of the people who did the install work last time.
The weirdest thing is that they actually installed a factory windshield while cheaping out on everything else.
Crazy.
I had the dealer install my windshield and they did a first-rate job.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Gonna stop by one of Guy Fieri's restaurants while you are there
From Acura: "Unlike a conventional automatic, the transmission changes gears though clutches – much more like a manual transmission – rather than simply a torque converter.
The transmission has one clutch for odd-numbered gears (1, 3, 5, 7) and a second for even ones (2, 4, 6, 8). While one clutch is engaged with the current gear, sensors predict whether the next gear change will be an upshift or downshift. The second clutch prepares the next gear ratio for instant engagement with a negligible loss of torque.
Eight gear ratios keep the engine running at or near peak efficiency at nearly all speeds.
Because dual-clutch transmissions have been known to shift roughly (particularly from a stop), we took the unprecedented step of incorporating a torque converter for a smoother launch.
The true performance potential of the 8-Speed DCT is realized by paddle shifters that enable lightning-fast shifts that take only milliseconds versus a typical manual shift of about a half second. This makes lively acceleration out of a turn or engine braking down a mountain road particularly satisfying."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S