Andre, that was my point about headroom. Raising the roof a few inches might make the car more "airy", but if I am not hitting the ceiling, it is basically wasted space and certainly does not make the car bigger.
With its strong performance, outstanding fuel economy, precise handling, accommodating cabin and good overall reputation, the 2014 Honda Accord is one of our top picks in the hugely competitive midsize sedan segment. Yet, it's not the only excellent choice. The 2014 Nissan Altima is another of our favorites in this class, and it offers sportier handling, even better mileage from its base four-cylinder engine and impressively rich interior furnishings. Other good picks include the Mazda 6, which is by far the most athletic car in the family sedan class, along with the 2014 Toyota Camry and 2014 Volkswagen Passat, which match the Honda's interior space but give you a softer ride. There's also the value-packed Kia Optima and stylish Ford Fusion. (Meanwhile, the Accord coupe has the midsize coupe segment all to itself, as its only real rival, Nissan's Altima coupe, is discontinued for 2014.) Narrowing down your choices in this strong group won't be easy, but if you want a midsize sedan that does nearly everything right, the Honda Accord should be on your list.
@stickguy said:
Andre, that was my point about headroom. Raising the roof a few inches might make the car more "airy", but if I am not hitting the ceiling, it is basically wasted space and certainly does not make the car bigger.
Another problem with the headroom measurement is that it can be thrown off because most cars today rarely have a flat ceiling like back in the day. So often, the further back you move the seat, the more headroom you'll have. To use one example, my great-aunt, who is maybe 5'7", but used to wear a beehive hairdo, had a 2001 or so Intrepid, and I had a 2000. She always complained about headroom, but I found that car to have plenty. However, I would sit with the seat all the way back, and probably had the seatback reclined further than she did as well...you know how little old ladies tend to sit upright! Well, the roof of that car was sort of egg-shaped, and sloped down the closer you got to the windshield. So, in some cases like this, maximum headroom might be meaningless to some drivers, depending on where the measurement is taken. And, I have no idea if they have a standard for what position the seatback is reclined in, which will make a difference.
Also, since headroom is a function of how much space there is from the floor to the ceiling, it takes into account the height of the seat. Therefore, a car with lower headroom measurement might actually have more room between the top of your head and the ceiling than one with a higher measurement, if the first car also has a seat that's much lower to the floor.
"U.S. consumers are expected to buy or lease 16.4 million new cars and light trucks in 2014, according to the National Auto Dealers Association.
In a statement, NADA Chief Economist Steven Szakaly said: "Consumers will be far better off in 2014 than last year. Employment is improving. Debt has been reduced, and home prices across all regions of the country will remain stable or will rise, yielding a positive wealth effect."
Kind of scary, history repeating itself. Housing prices rising usually due to manipulation one way or another will make people want to buy cars? Aint that America...HELOCs for all!
@Stever@Edmunds said:
In a statement, NADA Chief Economist Steven Szakaly said: "Consumers will be far better off in 2014 than last year. Employment is improving. Debt has been reduced, and home prices across all regions of the country will remain stable or will rise, yielding a positive wealth effect."
"Kind of scary, history repeating itself. Housing prices rising usually due to manipulation one way or another will make people want to buy cars? Aint that America...HELOCs for all!"
Well you know it's the fault of all those CEOs that people want all those things!
It's the CEOs who help buy the laws and fund the propaganda that lets it happen, no doubt also encouraging the lack of financial education in primary school. But this is an "ownership society" and many cereal box MBAs think it is OK, so there's no problem.
Certainly the executive class has no role in the socio-economic calamity of the past few decades, and should not be castigated in any way. They earn their compensation, and are shining stars of responsibility and accountability. All hail the executive class!
@tlong said:
"Kind of scary, history repeating itself. Housing prices rising usually due to manipulation one way or another will make people want to buy cars? Aint that America...HELOCs for all!"
Well you know it's the fault of all those CEOs that people want all those things!
Well the way I see it is that the CEOs couldn't buy laws if the government didn't let them. I fault the government far more, as they are supposed to represent the people. Where your wrath is focused on upper management, mine is focused on the government. Because that's what allows the current problems to continue. Other than those who break laws, both the upper management and the consumers are making perhaps poor decisions, but are doing that in a framework of rules that the government provides. If the framework sucks, then all bets are off.
Like I've said in the past, if I pay you to kill someone, I hold a huge amount of responsibility for the death as well.
When has the government really ever represented the people? Not in our lifetimes. Kind of a pipe dream. In a two party system existing in a lobbyist culture, it's not going to happen.
When the game is rigged, all bets are off. We should probably be thankful it works this well.
@tlong said:
Well the way I see it is that the CEOs couldn't buy laws if the government didn't let them. I fault the government far more, as they are supposed to represent the people. Where your wrath is focused on upper management, mine is focused on the government. Because that's what allows the current problems to continue. Other than those who break laws, both the upper management and the consumers are making perhaps poor decisions, but are doing that in a framework of rules that the government provides. If the framework sucks, then all bets are off.
So that means the general populace bears the responsibility for their HELOCs to spend, spend, spend, and buy their hocked cars, too. At least it powers the economy.
For me, I figure I'm glad those people are out there to keep my housing values up. Then I can drive my cars well over 100K miles and save a ton of $$. Helps (somewhat) to cover the cost of college bills for the offspring.
Responsible to a certain extent, anyway. The should-be-hanged suits and should-be-guillotined "leaders" have some too. Of course, you realize a debt powered economy is only good to a certain point - so long as there are jobs to support the debt. The Pandora's Box of "free trade" and cries for less and less "regulation" haven't helped.
Ah yes, the lucky boomers who have been able to take advantage of the greatest long term run up in asset values in history, now giving a free ride to their coddled and helicoptered devilspawn while demanding that others pay their way and build it themselves. I am glad they get tax breaks for that.
@tlong said:
So that means the general populace bears the responsibility for their HELOCs to spend, spend, spend, and buy their hocked cars, too. At least it powers the economy.
For me, I figure I'm glad those people are out there to keep my housing values up. Then I can drive my cars well over 100K miles and save a ton of $$. Helps (somewhat) to cover the cost of college bills for the offspring.
So funny, devilspawn. I could see that term in a number of contexts.
The problem is that if we weren't powered by a credit economy, it would be a lot smaller and the auto industry would look more like 2008 than 2014. I don't see how the current level of auto spending is sustainable over a long term.
Regarding tax breaks, please let me know of some I can use. I find my current tax rates extremely high, and certainly higher than most of the devilspawn taxes. Somebody has to power this economy, since few others seem to be doing it!
"AutoNation CEO Mike Jackson is warning manufacturers to slow production in 2014.
Jackson said the auto industry is unlikely to grow in 2014 at the same rate it has been growing in the past few years. That means inventory levels must be contained to avoid heavy incentive programs."
I have no problems with a credit economy, so long as the payments can be made. The US has been driven by consumer spending for generations anyway, and the results aren't all bad. Borrowing money isn't inherently evil. So long as credit/debt is cheap, it's a good time to be making cars. Raise interest rates and lease numbers, and it will collapse. At least the cars are generally more durable these days, so if used cars become the standard option, they won't be clunkers.
You have a mortgage, right? Or did you buy back in the days when price:income was much different than today? You think yours are high, try being single with a modestly above average income and no mortgage. And compared to my first world friends elsewhere, they aren't really high - the difference is that others get more in return for their payments.
@tlong said:
So funny, devilspawn. I could see that term in a number of contexts.
The problem is that if we weren't powered by a credit economy, it would be a lot smaller and the auto industry would look more like 2008 than 2014. I don't see how the current level of auto spending is sustainable over a long term.
Regarding tax breaks, please let me know of some I can use. I find my current tax rates extremely high, and certainly higher than most of the devilspawn taxes. Somebody has to power this economy, since few others seem to be doing it!
You have a mortgage, right? Or did you buy back in the days when price:income was much different than today?
Yes, I still have a relatively small mortgage. While others were buying new cars I was driving mine a long, long time and paying extra into the mortgage - so not a lot owed now. But of course I didn't get new cars every three years, either. Definitely a set of tradeoffs. At least others kept the economy booming. I could get a new car right now (mine is at 137K), but it runs well and still looks good ('05 Acura TL), so I see no reason to buy for a few more years. Hopefully the kids are off the "payroll" in the next few years and my disposable income will rise.
And there comes the break. I'd assume the affordability was greater when you bought in, in 1987 or whatever.
One thing to keep you away from buying a new TL is that yours simply looks a lot better. I've seen the upcoming TLX, and it's better than the 09-14 generation. Maybe there's your next car - and it you go that route, it will be built in the USA just like your current car
More than one free ride kid I know also has received new car at graduation, down payment for first property, etc, from his lucky over-involved boomer parents, so your expenses might not decline immediately
@tlong said:
Yes, I still have a relatively small mortgage. While others were buying new cars I was driving mine a long, long time and paying extra into the mortgage - so not a lot owed now. But of course I didn't get new cars every three years, either. Definitely a set of tradeoffs. At least others kept the economy booming. I could get a new car right now (mine is at 137K), but it runs well and still looks good ('05 Acura TL), so I see no reason to buy for a few more years. Hopefully the kids are off the "payroll" in the next few years and my disposable income will rise.
Don't worry, I won't be buying a new TL. I agree mine was one of the best looking and my next car will be something else. I may go for a stick again, too, if I can even find one.
@tlong said:
Yes, I still have a relatively small mortgage. While others were buying new cars I was driving mine a long, long time and paying extra into the mortgage - so not a lot owed now. But of course I didn't get new cars every three years, either. Definitely a set of tradeoffs. At least others kept the economy booming. I could get a new car right now (mine is at 137K), but it runs well and still looks good ('05 Acura TL), so I see no reason to buy for a few more years. Hopefully the kids are off the "payroll" in the next few years and my disposable income will rise.
My 2005 Grand Marquis runs well despite 115K miles but isn't looking so good these days.
@tlong said:
Don't worry, I won't be buying a new TL. I agree mine was one of the best looking and my next car will be something else. I may go for a stick again, too, if I can even find one.
The TL was a nice looking car until Acura decided to put that beak on the front and use Optimus Prime as an inspiration for the rear styling.
@uplanderguy said:
GM wins both NACOTY an NATOTY contests. Damn, they simply aren't able to be the best.
I think I hear teeth gnashing in NJ and CA.
I just heard an announcement that GM stock is going to start paying a dividend again sometime in the near future. Nothing too phenomenal, 30 cents per share, but it's a start! I don't think GM has paid dividends since 2008.
It's a $1.20 annual per the press release. I'm a shareholder - not only have I seen a 65% on paper return in 18 months, now it's paying dividends again.
@tlong said:
Don't worry, I won't be buying a new TL. I agree mine was one of the best looking and my next car will be something else. I may go for a stick again, too, if I can even find one.
@robr2 said:
It's a $1.20 annual per the press release. I'm a shareholder - not only have I seen a 65% on paper return in 18 months, now it's paying dividends again.
Oh, cool! I had bought some GM when it first got re-issued, but then sold it after a few months and bought Amazon instead. I did go ahead and buy some more GM late last year though. I think I'm up about 14%, so I'm not complaining. And that dividend will be nice.
Not US but the implications for us loom large. Ford and GM are shutting EU factories and Fiat/Chrysler can't see bottom.
"European car sales are sliding to a 20-year low after German concerns over the debt crisis sent demand plunging last month in the region’s biggest economy and removed the main buffer protecting automakers.
Registrations in March fell 10 percent to 1.35 million vehicles, the 18th consecutive decline, with Germany’s auto market plunging 17 percent."
Looks like the GM stock thing is official now. Ex- date is 3/14, payable date is 3/28, so everybody get your orders in before 3/14 if you want that 30 cents per share!
@fintail said:
Yeah, new Mirage, has a manual and probably needs it. Built in Thailand - motorcycles made there seem to fare OK, maybe the car will too.
I wouldn't be buying a Mitsubishi. I'm not into marginal players in the US market.
That brand has really squandered what it once had on the US market. It was really relevant back in the days of Legends and Integras. Now, without spoiled stepford wives and their MDXs, I don't know if it would exist at all.
@tlong said:
Well, they weren't nearly as marginal when I bought the car. And still aren't marginal compared to Mitsu in the US.
That brand has really squandered what it once had on the US market. It was really relevant back in the days of Legends and Integras. Now, without spoiled stepford wives and their MDXs, I don't know if it would exist at all.
Well the new TLX looks good in pictures. But in general, while still a good brand, Honda has lost some of their edge from say a decade or two ago. They aren't Toyota, but they have drifted more in that direction. And that's not a good thing.
Still, contrary to some posters' opinions, Honda is a great brand if you want reliablity. At 137K my TL has had very little go wrong and I have no doubt I can go to 200K and beyond with not much work. The car looks close to brand new.
We also have an '04 Odyssey that we bought used about 5 years ago, and it is getting close to 100K with no major issues (and no tranny issues, even though some would think I'd be on my third by now, lol).
I love the German cars but the prices have gone even more stratospheric and what I don't like is their service costs. I also have a sense that they don't age as well, and I keep my cars a long time. My '98 Audi A4 - I loved that car - started having cooling problems around 50K, and the dealer never could figure out what it was, at many hundreds of dollars for each repeat visit. I got rid of that car earlier than I've ever done with any other vehicle, but it was a great car to drive. I wish I could find those interiors and driving dynamics with the reliability of a Honda or Toyota.
@tlong said:
I love the German cars but the prices have gone even more stratospheric and what I don't like is
their service costs. I also have a sense that they don't age as well, and I keep my cars a long time. My '98 Audi A4 - I loved that car - started having cooling problems around 50K, and the dealer never could figure out what it was, at many hundreds of dollars for each repeat visit. I got rid of that car earlier than I've ever done with any other vehicle, but it was a great car to drive. I wish I could find those interiors and driving dynamics with the reliability of a Honda or Toyota.
What you said summarizes my conundrum regarding Japanese and American brands versus German ones. We own and have owned many brands of a variety of national origins over the years, and have had mostly good experiences with all of them. We maintain our vehicles well, and generally keep them a long time, until the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the vehicles. I tend to enjoy driving older cars as much or more than newer ones, for a variety of reasons, and my wife doesn't care, so long as they're reliable and look respectable. Our current fleet includes a '99 TL with 146,000 miles, a '07 A4 with 70,000 and a '13 Fiat 500 with 11,000. The TL has lived up to its low cost of ownership reputation, and, like yours, should eventually exceed 200,000 miles. The transmission is original.
The A4 got a top engine rebuild because of excessive oil consumption, and a new ignition switch, but, fortunately, both were fully covered under the manufacturer's warranty. The car runs and looks great, so we'll keep it until it makes economic sense to trade it.
We cross-shopped the MINI and Fiat, and settled on the Fiat. It's fun, practical and economical, and we're very happy with it. I'm sure we'd be equally happy with the MINI.
Do you service the Odyssey transmission every 40K or so? That might help it. My only experience in that arena is a friend who had an 03 Accord V6 puke a transmission at 70K. Warranty item. Co-worker has an 07 Lexus ES, it just lost a coil pack and had them all replaced - not cheap! Although generally very reliable, even supposed perfect makes can have hiccups.
It's kind of always been that way about German cars - have a warranty or budget for repairs (and don't take an out of warranty car to a dealer). Many 90s era cars were also kind of "dark ages" in that they have a lot of troubles. Did you have your Audi from 98-05? Some of them are becoming rare already. And I've noticed newer Audis sometimes smoke - that doesn't seem right. There's a brand that I might not want to carry a car into old age. The makers get their profit from new and CPO sales - so the cars are kind of built for that. The market seems to agree, with how Audi has grown here in the past decade.
@tlong said:
I love the German cars but the prices have gone even more stratospheric and what I don't like is their service costs. I also have a sense that they don't age as well, and I keep my cars a long time. My '98 Audi A4 - I loved that car - started having cooling problems around 50K, and the dealer never could figure out what it was, at many hundreds of dollars for each repeat visit. I got rid of that car earlier than I've ever done with any other vehicle, but it was a great car to drive. I wish I could find those interiors and driving dynamics with the reliability of a Honda or Toyota.
RE: German cars out of warranty--I always advise friends: "Yes if you are resourceful and/or have friends in the repairs/parts business, otherwise NO".
@fintail said:
It's kind of always been that way about German cars - have a warranty or budget for repairs (and don't take an out of warranty car to a dealer). >
Fin, don't know what the hell happened above, but I was going to ask if your fintail is an everyday car, or if you drive something else daily? Of course, in Seattle you can probably get long without a daily driver in many sections of town.
I live in a suburb, and I work odd hours - a car is needed some days, I won't want to haul my rear end on a bike in 40F rain . Fintail is too old and finicky to be a DD - the rain wouldn't do it any good, and it's not exactly like a new car under the hood. Here's the latest pic of the "fleet"
@berri said:
Fin, don't know what the hell happened above, but I was going to ask if your fintail is an everyday car, or if you drive something else daily? Of course, in Seattle you can probably get long without a daily driver in many sections of town.
Thanks. Color was a big deal - I wanted only white, diamond silver (a light blue), or maybe brown. It's just a lease, as they are insanely subsidized, and I had an itch to have a new car once in my life. Got another year left on it, don't know what I will do then.
@berri said:
NICE ! White works on that daily driver.
@fintail said:
Thanks. Color was a big deal - I wanted only white, diamond silver (a light blue), or maybe brown. It's just a lease, as they are insanely subsidized, and I had an itch to have a new car once in my life. Got another year left on it, don't know what I will do then.
It seems like you only got that in the last year? How long has it been, and how long was the lease?
Almost a year now, 24 month lease with possible "pull forward", should I choose to do another. As of yet I don't know what I will do. It's something relevant to this thread too, as no doubt cheap leases have helped drive the market as high as it is. I think the Germans are overproducing via weaknesses in Europe right now, so you can get decent deals here.
@tlong said:
It seems like you only got that in the last year? How long has it been, and how long was the lease?
Comments
Andre, that was my point about headroom. Raising the roof a few inches might make the car more "airy", but if I am not hitting the ceiling, it is basically wasted space and certainly does not make the car bigger.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Edmunds on the '14 Accord:
With its strong performance, outstanding fuel economy, precise handling, accommodating cabin and good overall reputation, the 2014 Honda Accord is one of our top picks in the hugely competitive midsize sedan segment. Yet, it's not the only excellent choice. The 2014 Nissan Altima is another of our favorites in this class, and it offers sportier handling, even better mileage from its base four-cylinder engine and impressively rich interior furnishings. Other good picks include the Mazda 6, which is by far the most athletic car in the family sedan class, along with the 2014 Toyota Camry and 2014 Volkswagen Passat, which match the Honda's interior space but give you a softer ride. There's also the value-packed Kia Optima and stylish Ford Fusion. (Meanwhile, the Accord coupe has the midsize coupe segment all to itself, as its only real rival, Nissan's Altima coupe, is discontinued for 2014.) Narrowing down your choices in this strong group won't be easy, but if you want a midsize sedan that does nearly everything right, the Honda Accord should be on your list.
Another problem with the headroom measurement is that it can be thrown off because most cars today rarely have a flat ceiling like back in the day. So often, the further back you move the seat, the more headroom you'll have. To use one example, my great-aunt, who is maybe 5'7", but used to wear a beehive hairdo, had a 2001 or so Intrepid, and I had a 2000. She always complained about headroom, but I found that car to have plenty. However, I would sit with the seat all the way back, and probably had the seatback reclined further than she did as well...you know how little old ladies tend to sit upright! Well, the roof of that car was sort of egg-shaped, and sloped down the closer you got to the windshield. So, in some cases like this, maximum headroom might be meaningless to some drivers, depending on where the measurement is taken. And, I have no idea if they have a standard for what position the seatback is reclined in, which will make a difference.
Also, since headroom is a function of how much space there is from the floor to the ceiling, it takes into account the height of the seat. Therefore, a car with lower headroom measurement might actually have more room between the top of your head and the ceiling than one with a higher measurement, if the first car also has a seat that's much lower to the floor.
"U.S. consumers are expected to buy or lease 16.4 million new cars and light trucks in 2014, according to the National Auto Dealers Association.
In a statement, NADA Chief Economist Steven Szakaly said: "Consumers will be far better off in 2014 than last year. Employment is improving. Debt has been reduced, and home prices across all regions of the country will remain stable or will rise, yielding a positive wealth effect."
U.S. Consumers Will Buy 16.4 Million Vehicles in 2014, Dealers Predict
Kind of scary, history repeating itself. Housing prices rising usually due to manipulation one way or another will make people want to buy cars? Aint that America...HELOCs for all!
"Kind of scary, history repeating itself. Housing prices rising usually due to manipulation one way or another will make people want to buy cars? Aint that America...HELOCs for all!"
Well you know it's the fault of all those CEOs that people want all those things!
It's the CEOs who help buy the laws and fund the propaganda that lets it happen, no doubt also encouraging the lack of financial education in primary school. But this is an "ownership society" and many cereal box MBAs think it is OK, so there's no problem.
Certainly the executive class has no role in the socio-economic calamity of the past few decades, and should not be castigated in any way. They earn their compensation, and are shining stars of responsibility and accountability. All hail the executive class!
Well the way I see it is that the CEOs couldn't buy laws if the government didn't let them. I fault the government far more, as they are supposed to represent the people. Where your wrath is focused on upper management, mine is focused on the government. Because that's what allows the current problems to continue. Other than those who break laws, both the upper management and the consumers are making perhaps poor decisions, but are doing that in a framework of rules that the government provides. If the framework sucks, then all bets are off.
Like I've said in the past, if I pay you to kill someone, I hold a huge amount of responsibility for the death as well.
When has the government really ever represented the people? Not in our lifetimes. Kind of a pipe dream. In a two party system existing in a lobbyist culture, it's not going to happen.
When the game is rigged, all bets are off. We should probably be thankful it works this well.
So that means the general populace bears the responsibility for their HELOCs to spend, spend, spend, and buy their hocked cars, too. At least it powers the economy.
For me, I figure I'm glad those people are out there to keep my housing values up. Then I can drive my cars well over 100K miles and save a ton of $$. Helps (somewhat) to cover the cost of college bills for the offspring.
Responsible to a certain extent, anyway. The should-be-hanged suits and should-be-guillotined "leaders" have some too. Of course, you realize a debt powered economy is only good to a certain point - so long as there are jobs to support the debt. The Pandora's Box of "free trade" and cries for less and less "regulation" haven't helped.
Ah yes, the lucky boomers who have been able to take advantage of the greatest long term run up in asset values in history, now giving a free ride to their coddled and helicoptered devilspawn while demanding that others pay their way and build it themselves. I am glad they get tax breaks for that.
So funny, devilspawn. I could see that term in a number of contexts.
The problem is that if we weren't powered by a credit economy, it would be a lot smaller and the auto industry would look more like 2008 than 2014. I don't see how the current level of auto spending is sustainable over a long term.
Regarding tax breaks, please let me know of some I can use. I find my current tax rates extremely high, and certainly higher than most of the devilspawn taxes. Somebody has to power this economy, since few others seem to be doing it!
"AutoNation CEO Mike Jackson is warning manufacturers to slow production in 2014.
Jackson said the auto industry is unlikely to grow in 2014 at the same rate it has been growing in the past few years. That means inventory levels must be contained to avoid heavy incentive programs."
AutoNation's Jackson warns of excessive inventory levels in 2014 (Automotive News)
I have no problems with a credit economy, so long as the payments can be made. The US has been driven by consumer spending for generations anyway, and the results aren't all bad. Borrowing money isn't inherently evil. So long as credit/debt is cheap, it's a good time to be making cars. Raise interest rates and lease numbers, and it will collapse. At least the cars are generally more durable these days, so if used cars become the standard option, they won't be clunkers.
You have a mortgage, right? Or did you buy back in the days when price:income was much different than today?
You think yours are high, try being single with a modestly above average income and no mortgage. And compared to my first world friends elsewhere, they aren't really high - the difference is that others get more in return for their payments.
Yes, I still have a relatively small mortgage. While others were buying new cars I was driving mine a long, long time and paying extra into the mortgage - so not a lot owed now. But of course I didn't get new cars every three years, either. Definitely a set of tradeoffs. At least others kept the economy booming. I could get a new car right now (mine is at 137K), but it runs well and still looks good ('05 Acura TL), so I see no reason to buy for a few more years. Hopefully the kids are off the "payroll" in the next few years and my disposable income will rise.
And there comes the break. I'd assume the affordability was greater when you bought in, in 1987 or whatever.
One thing to keep you away from buying a new TL is that yours simply looks a lot better. I've seen the upcoming TLX, and it's better than the 09-14 generation. Maybe there's your next car - and it you go that route, it will be built in the USA just like your current car
More than one free ride kid I know also has received new car at graduation, down payment for first property, etc, from his lucky over-involved boomer parents, so your expenses might not decline immediately
Don't worry, I won't be buying a new TL. I agree mine was one of the best looking and my next car will be something else. I may go for a stick again, too, if I can even find one.
GM wins both NACOTY an NATOTY contests. Damn, they simply aren't able to be the best.
I think I hear teeth gnashing in NJ and CA.
My 2005 Grand Marquis runs well despite 115K miles but isn't looking so good these days.
The TL was a nice looking car until Acura decided to put that beak on the front and use Optimus Prime as an inspiration for the rear styling.
I just heard an announcement that GM stock is going to start paying a dividend again sometime in the near future. Nothing too phenomenal, 30 cents per share, but it's a start! I don't think GM has paid dividends since 2008.
I think I hear teeth gnashing in NJ and CA.
Damn! I am devastated!
At the current price that's about a 3% dividend - better than a savings account.
It's probably only going to be 7.5 cents per quarter, or 30 cents annually. So more like a 0.75% dividend. But STILL better than a savings account!
It's a $1.20 annual per the press release. I'm a shareholder - not only have I seen a 65% on paper return in 18 months, now it's paying dividends again.
You might end up in one of these
I don't know if it will tear up the US market
Oh, cool! I had bought some GM when it first got re-issued, but then sold it after a few months and bought Amazon instead. I did go ahead and buy some more GM late last year though. I think I'm up about 14%, so I'm not complaining. And that dividend will be nice.
What is that, something Chinese?
Mitsubishi Mirage - already on sale.
Yeah, new Mirage, has a manual and probably needs it. Built in Thailand - motorcycles made there seem to fare OK, maybe the car will too.
Not US but the implications for us loom large. Ford and GM are shutting EU factories and Fiat/Chrysler can't see bottom.
"European car sales are sliding to a 20-year low after German concerns over the debt crisis sent demand plunging last month in the region’s biggest economy and removed the main buffer protecting automakers.
Registrations in March fell 10 percent to 1.35 million vehicles, the 18th consecutive decline, with Germany’s auto market plunging 17 percent."
Europe Car Sales Heading for 20-Year Low on German Slide (Bloomberg)
Looks like the GM stock thing is official now. Ex- date is 3/14, payable date is 3/28, so everybody get your orders in before 3/14 if you want that 30 cents per share!
I wouldn't be buying a Mitsubishi. I'm not into marginal players in the US market.
But, you bought an Acura
Top 10 Best-Selling Vehicles for 2013
The usual suspects....
Well, they weren't nearly as marginal when I bought the car. And still aren't marginal compared to Mitsu in the US.
I was just teasing you
That brand has really squandered what it once had on the US market. It was really relevant back in the days of Legends and Integras. Now, without spoiled stepford wives and their MDXs, I don't know if it would exist at all.
Well the new TLX looks good in pictures. But in general, while still a good brand, Honda has lost some of their edge from say a decade or two ago. They aren't Toyota, but they have drifted more in that direction. And that's not a good thing.
Still, contrary to some posters' opinions, Honda is a great brand if you want reliablity. At 137K my TL has had very little go wrong and I have no doubt I can go to 200K and beyond with not much work. The car looks close to brand new.
We also have an '04 Odyssey that we bought used about 5 years ago, and it is getting close to 100K with no major issues (and no tranny issues, even though some would think I'd be on my third by now, lol).
I love the German cars but the prices have gone even more stratospheric and what I don't like is their service costs. I also have a sense that they don't age as well, and I keep my cars a long time. My '98 Audi A4 - I loved that car - started having cooling problems around 50K, and the dealer never could figure out what it was, at many hundreds of dollars for each repeat visit. I got rid of that car earlier than I've ever done with any other vehicle, but it was a great car to drive. I wish I could find those interiors and driving dynamics with the reliability of a Honda or Toyota.
their service costs. I also have a sense that they don't age as well, and I keep my cars a long time. My '98 Audi A4 - I loved that car - started having cooling problems around 50K, and the dealer never could figure out what it was, at many hundreds of dollars for each repeat visit. I got rid of that car earlier than I've ever done with any other vehicle, but it was a great car to drive. I wish I could find those interiors and driving dynamics with the reliability of a Honda or Toyota.
What you said summarizes my conundrum regarding Japanese and American brands versus German ones. We own and have owned many brands of a variety of national origins over the years, and have had mostly good experiences with all of them. We maintain our vehicles well, and generally keep them a long time, until the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the vehicles. I tend to enjoy driving older cars as much or more than newer ones, for a variety of reasons, and my wife doesn't care, so long as they're reliable and look respectable. Our current fleet includes a '99 TL with 146,000 miles, a '07 A4 with 70,000 and a '13 Fiat 500 with 11,000. The TL has lived up to its low cost of ownership reputation, and, like yours, should eventually exceed 200,000 miles. The transmission is original.
The A4 got a top engine rebuild because of excessive oil consumption, and a new ignition switch, but, fortunately, both were fully covered under the manufacturer's warranty. The car runs and looks great, so we'll keep it until it makes economic sense to trade it.
We cross-shopped the MINI and Fiat, and settled on the Fiat. It's fun, practical and economical, and we're very happy with it. I'm sure we'd be equally happy with the MINI.
2013 Market Share for Cars - Total Market Share - Toyota Leads
Do you service the Odyssey transmission every 40K or so? That might help it. My only experience in that arena is a friend who had an 03 Accord V6 puke a transmission at 70K. Warranty item. Co-worker has an 07 Lexus ES, it just lost a coil pack and had them all replaced - not cheap! Although generally very reliable, even supposed perfect makes can have hiccups.
It's kind of always been that way about German cars - have a warranty or budget for repairs (and don't take an out of warranty car to a dealer). Many 90s era cars were also kind of "dark ages" in that they have a lot of troubles. Did you have your Audi from 98-05? Some of them are becoming rare already. And I've noticed newer Audis sometimes smoke - that doesn't seem right. There's a brand that I might not want to carry a car into old age. The makers get their profit from new and CPO sales - so the cars are kind of built for that. The market seems to agree, with how Audi has grown here in the past decade.
RE: German cars out of warranty--I always advise friends: "Yes if you are resourceful and/or have friends in the repairs/parts business, otherwise NO".
Fin, don't know what the hell happened above, but I was going to ask if your fintail is an everyday car, or if you drive something else daily? Of course, in Seattle you can probably get long without a daily driver in many sections of town.
I live in a suburb, and I work odd hours - a car is needed some days, I won't want to haul my rear end on a bike in 40F rain
. Fintail is too old and finicky to be a DD - the rain wouldn't do it any good, and it's not exactly like a new car under the hood. Here's the latest pic of the "fleet"
NICE ! White works on that daily driver.
Thanks. Color was a big deal - I wanted only white, diamond silver (a light blue), or maybe brown. It's just a lease, as they are insanely subsidized, and I had an itch to have a new car once in my life. Got another year left on it, don't know what I will do then.
It seems like you only got that in the last year? How long has it been, and how long was the lease?
Almost a year now, 24 month lease with possible "pull forward", should I choose to do another. As of yet I don't know what I will do. It's something relevant to this thread too, as no doubt cheap leases have helped drive the market as high as it is. I think the Germans are overproducing via weaknesses in Europe right now, so you can get decent deals here.
Wow, time flies - seems like you only got it a few months ago. How have you liked the E-class?