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The Current State of the US Auto Market
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Well, "old" is a relative term I guess. At the time, this lady was in her 50's (died in 1986, at the age of 60, from complications from cancer). She was a scary driver, too. I remember riding with her once in that Monte Carlo, and a Ford Courier pulled out in front of her a little too close, making a left turn across her bow. She actually AIMED at that truck, almost like Cruella DeVil trying to run down a Dalmatian puppy!
I remember saying something like "watch out!" or "slow down" and she simply said "Well, he shouldn't have pulled out in front of me!" We weren't wearing out seatbelts either, so even with the weight disparity, I'm sure that if she had actually hit that Courier, the end result wouldn't have been pretty...
As for those old 70's doors, again, if my LeMans is an indication, they're actually not too bad. The doors on 4-door cars have gotten a lot larger over the years, so I'd imagine that those old coupe doors aren't all that much heavier. The biggest problem with the LeMans is that, with all the windows rolled up, you have to slam the door hard, because the inside of the car is so airtight. If the windows are cracked, it doesn't take much effort at all to close them...although I have to remind people NOT to slam them. Those old frameless windows are really loose in those cars, and I always worry about them breaking. I remember once, back in the 90's, seeing someone slam the door of a mid-70's Lincoln Continental sedan and the window shattered.
A 1957 GM product purchased new, still the buyer's only car? Blasphemy!
Actually, I posted this on the old car forum, but think most anyone can appreciate this lady and her '57 Bel Air Sport Sedan.
http://www.youtube.com/v/QwcRG2aEi3s
Yup, those GM US products don't last. Everyone should have been buying tyotas and Hondas. Actually I recall someone in my in-law's family had an Opel sitting along their driveway that wouldn't work in the late 50's or early 60's, in Western Ohio. Is my memory working right?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
There is something to be said for agricultural simplicity in an automobile.
Interesting thing about the U.S. market these days: nine of the top ten cars for sales worldwide are actually available here (the only exception is the Polo, which is tenth in sales). And how about that? The Focus outsells the Corolla worldwide (something it doesn't do in its home country)...
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/the-10-most-popular-automobiles-worldwide-in-2013.html/?ref=YF
And it looks like 15.6 million U.S. sales for 2013, right? With 16 million forecast for 2014? I wonder, though, if they are being too optimistic there...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well Fiat has reached an agreement to buy the rest of Chrysler: $4.35 billion for the union's 41.5% stake valuing Chrysler at $10.6 billion.
Fiat Buying Chrysler
I remember a discussion on the valuation here when the union filed for it's IPO. Does anyone remember what the numbers were?
I didn't go back and see if the links still work but my recollection was that the number Sergio wanted was around 3 billion.
Seems like that stuff was mostly in The Progression of Chrysler discussion, although some probably were in the UAW one too.
(You can find the laundry list of those discussions by clicking on the News & Events tag on the right).
December US auto sales slower than expected. GM lost market share for both the month and the year. Chrysler and Ford both outperformed GM in market share change. Toyota also lost market share for the month and year, similarly to GM.
I think Ford deserves to have more sales success than GM due to their huge focus on product, so I'm glad to see that.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That would be the consensus I think, despite CR rating a '13 Malibu eleven points in their testing higher than a '13 Fusion. I think a lot of people don't realize that. The Focus has grown on me, but I still don't care for the Fusion's styling. The Taurus is blah IMHO too.
malibu
Here are some comments regarding the '14 Bu. While not a crappy effort, not class leading for sure.
**The 2014 Chevrolet Malibu ranks 15 out of 22 Affordable Midsize Cars. This ranking is based on our analysis of published reviews and test drives of the Chevrolet Malibu, as well as reliability and safety data.
Critics say that while the updated 2014 Chevrolet Malibu has improved, it still doesn’t stack up well against competitors that offer more refinement, flashier styling or better fuel economy.**
"If you're shopping for a midsize family sedan, making a choice isn't going to be easy. Some cars might hold a little more overall appeal, such as the dramatically styled Ford Fusion, the polished Honda Accord and the fuel-efficient Nissan Altima. The Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Mazda 6 and Volkswagen Passat have earned strong accolades from us as well. But overall, the 2014 Chevrolet Malibu is still a good prospect worth scouting during the search for your next family car." -- Edmunds
TOP 10 Cars
Rank Best-Selling Car 2013 2012 % Change
1 Toyota Camry 408,484 404,886 0.90%
2 Honda Accord 366,678 331,872 10.50%
3 Honda Civic 336,180 317,909 5.70%
4 Nissan Altima 320,723 302,934 5.90%
5 Toyota Corolla/Matrix 302,180 290,947 3.90%
6 Ford Fusion 295,280 241,263 22.40%
7 Chevrolet Cruze 248,224 237,758 4.40%
8 Hyundai Elantra 247,912 202,034 22.70%
9 Ford Focus 234,570 245,922 -4.60%
10 Hyundai Sonata 203,648 230,605 -11.70%
"The Ford F-series truck was the top-selling vehicle for the 32nd year." (bostonherald.com)
Pretty amazing record. My brother has two of them.
Maybe I am a heretic (I do prefer smaller cars too) but regular pickups have just gotten too darned big. Forget about getting into a garage, or most parking spaces. At this point they are overgrown for normal urban use.
I really think Ford should bring over the new Ranger. Probably figure it would steal sales though this time. Will be interesting to see how the new Chevy does. Though I looked at the specs on that, and it certainly does not qualify as a compact. Probably about as big as a 1/2 ton from a couple of generations ago, but at least closer to a usable size.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm surprised the Cruze outsells the Focus. Pleased, since it's built in my area.
Is your Kelley Blue Book quote for the '14 Malibu? I can't tell.
Funny, CR new-car test results have often been used by a poster or two here to goof on GM, yet when GM exceeds the mainstream cars, it's never brought up, except by me.
These posts are all subjective quotes, not test results. If a mag tells me I should buy one make because of styling, I laugh. For instance, to my eyes, the Fusion and Optima are about the worst-looking cars in that class. CR doesn't do that, thankfully. I would guess that there's less 'this car is/isn't cool' by their testers, than the 'enthusiast' rags. Yes, I still dislike their sampling techniques, and the magazine's editing, but I believe they can test a car as well as anybody...maybe better and/or with more objectivity.
I agree with you, and I'm someone that prefers, up to a certain point at least, larger vehicles. I still held onto Granddad's '85 Silverado even though I bought a 2012 Ram, and in a lot of respects I still prefer the Silverado! The Ram's seating position is better (more legroom, steering wheel further away, etc) and it's a LOT faster, handles better, and gets better economy. But the Silverado is a lot more manageable, easier to see out of, easier to park, etc. As for how they stack up size wise, I think the Ram is about 233" long and on a 140.5" wheelbase. The Silverado is something like 131.5" in wheelbase, and the only length I've ever seen published, for the regular cab/8-foot bed, was 212". However, I've had them both side by side and the Ram doesn't look THAT much longer. IIRC, back in the day, they may not have counted the rear bumper in overall length, since they were still optional I think. So if that's the case, the back bumper could add an easy 8" right there.
The Ram's biggest problem, IMO, is that it sits up so high that it's hard for me to judge distances, so it's harder to park than the Silverado. It's also a lot harder to back up with it, because the roof pillars and headrests block my vision, and the jacked-up height in general makes it rough. Sometimes if a low enough car is behind me, I can't even see it.
No, but you'll hear it, so that's almost as good
@stickguy, I did give my brother a bit of grief when he showed me the built in step and grab bar in the tailgate of his newer F-150. Crazy liftover height. I always liked Rampages and LUVs and the small Toyota pickups "back in the day". Just prefer covered storage that you can mostly access from the cabin. My wife has always liked the idea of a camper shell though, moreso than a conversion van.
That's why I have front and rear parking sensors and a rear camera on my Ram. Makes parking much easier. But yeah, having a wheelbase over 140" simply makes parking a challenge.
I'm nearing 8,500 miles on my Ram, no issues so far. Considering all of the electronics, I'm somewhat surprised.
You got me beat...I'm just shy of 7,000 as of this morning, and I've had it about 15 1/2 months. And no issues, yet. Last year, there were two times that it stalled out in the driveway, and twice it got stuck in 4th gear, but both issues worked themselves out and haven't come back to haunt me. Not yet, at least...
Car and Driver on the '14 Malibu:
Despite Chevy’s impressively quick face lift on this Malibu, we simply don’t think there are enough other substantive improvements to draw in hordes of new buyers. (We’ll reserve judgment on the base model until we test one.) The back seat is still too cramped, in spite of the newly scooped-out front seatbacks that give rear passengers slightly more kneeroom. The clashing colors, textures, and materials in the cabin give us a headache. The standard and optional equipment lists mirror those from last year, too.
**We had wondered whether this refresh might mitigate the Malibu’s wallflower status, but the Chevy still doesn’t wow like the Honda Accord, Mazda 6, Ford Fusion, and Volkswagen Passat—all of which offer more character and driving satisfaction. **Had the turbocharged Malibu incorporated the base car’s engine stop-start system, at least it would have a relatively unique feature to attract buyers. Without it, EPA estimated fuel economy stays unchanged at 21 mpg city and 30 highway. We tallied the same 23 mpg during our test as we did in last year’s car. Perhaps worrisome for Chevrolet is that the turbo shares showroom space with the roomier, better-looking, and similarly priced V-6–powered 2014 Impala. The latter is the Chevy we’d choose, and we doubt the brand intended to conquest sales from itself. That’s a problem that will require more than a mild refresh to fix.
Edmunds on the '14 Malibu:
If you're shopping for a midsize family sedan, making a choice isn't going to be easy given the vast spread of qualified candidates. The 2014 Chevrolet Malibu should meet most of your requirements, but family cars like the dramatically styled Ford Fusion, the polished Honda Accord and the fuel-efficient Nissan Altima have more all-around appeal. The Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Mazda 6 and Volkswagen Passat have also earned strong accolades in our testing. Although the Chevrolet Malibu doesn't have any significant advantages over these competitors, it's still a good prospect and, particularly with this year's upgrades, worth scouting during the search for your next family car.
Commenting on 'more character' and color combinations is something you don't see in a CR review. That's all frou-frou subjectivity things. I still hate the Fusion's looks and the made-in-Mexico status (except for Flat Rock-built ones). Thanks for substantiating my earlier-posted opinion. Eleven points is a big spread--and isn't even with the '14 model Malibu and Fusion.
Why I wouldn't utilize someone's reviews of styling and color combinations is one reason, also, I would never utilize an interior decorator. I'll make the call on those things, thank you.
In reference to one of your earlier posts about the Malibu being 15 out of 22, I was just thinking that it's surprising there are actually 22 "affordable, midsized" cars to choose from these days!
Once upon a time, there were essentially four. GM, Ford, Mopar, and AMC.
Just out of curiosity, do you know where the Camry ranked on that list? On New Year's Day, I went with my uncle and grandmother to see my Mom and stepdad because we missed Christmas with them, and I drove my uncle's 2013 Camry. It's not a bad car at all, but at the same time, I don't think there's anything really special about it. Seems like such an easy-to-hit target, that it shouldn't be hard for the competition to surpass it. But, these things also have to be built to a certain price, and I think even Toyota is having to succumb to that more and more these days.
I think Toyota has been coasting on the Camry's reputation for a long time. Plus very devoted owner base that are conveniently people that have no interest in cars as more than an appliance.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Just out of curiosity, do you know where the Camry ranked on that list?
Camry was #5....Sonata was #1
For some odd reason, when it comes to midsized cars, I find myself being drawn a bit to the Mazda 6 and VW Passat. For years I liked the Altima, but the latest version just doesn't do it for me.
The best-looking Altima, IMHO, was the 2002 when it came out. It even turned my head. But then, I liked late '80's (I think) and early '90's Maximas too--smooth lines, wall-to-wall light in back. I think that Altima invented the aftermarket for chrome-inside-taillight lenses for other cars...Altima did it from the factory.
I like the passat style. And it is huge inside.
but the Mazda 6 is a really nice overall package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
...and the Malibu remains, not crappy but not a great car. Strike two....
This is going to sound a bit silly, but one reason I liked the 2002 Altima was that that taillights reminded me just a bit of a '55 or so Dodge! Especially at night. It was also about as big as anything marketed as a midsize got at the time. In some areas, notably front seat legroom, it was roomier than my old Intrepid.
But when the 2007 model came out, it felt smaller in some respects. The trunk shrunk a bit, and it felt like headroom did as well, especially in the back seat. It still had great legroom though, which is usually the one dimension I'm I'll find fault with first.
As for the current model, I sat in one at the DC auto show, but don't remember much about it, except that I didn't care for the style.
I do find myself liking the Maxima more and more, though, although they're a bit more "premium"...and actually smaller inside than the Altima these days!
As for that older Maxima you reference, Uplanderguy, I think that one ran from 1989-94, and I thought they were really sharp looking, as well.
There used to be a pearlescent white Maxima of that era at work when it was new, and I liked it. In contrast, I think the Maxima before it looked...ick. Made a Celebrity look almost aerodynamic...LOL
I don't have a fleet of cars at my disposal;)
Maxima sells a lot to rental fleets these days, and is an aging model, which means the potential for good deals. I see screamer print ads advertising new ones in the low 20s, like 10K off MSRP - not a bad Camcordima alternative - marginally more expensive, but probably has more content.
_the Malibu remains, not crappy but not a great car. Strike two
I don't think there really are any crappy family sedans anymore (well, until the Chinese crap comes here I suppose). Something tells me that the margin between #1 and #22 on your list is probably fairly small. Most any car has strong and weak points, so I'm not sure why you're always singling out GM products these days. For example, many of the reviews complain about your Hyunkia cars needing improvement in suspension and steering, but that doesn't make them a crappy selection either. Like most everyone else, they have strong and weak points. The Malibu's I've rented have actually been pretty comfortable vehicles. I'd agree they are not at the top of that segment, but I certainly don't think they are bad enough cars that they need to be singled out here.
so I'm not sure why you're always singling out GM products these days.
Because they still need to improve, particularly the 'Bu. Even with the quick fix, it's still lacking in some major areas. Honda did a far better job to fix their cheapo Civic recently.
I agree the Koreans need to improve as well.....just that they are beating GM at the moment! I'd buy a Fusion or another Optima and leave the current 'Bu for the rental community. I'd even buy an Impala if I needed a large vehicle.
Presently, it's the Japanese in the lead in the major car segments.
Funny but my 15 YO daughter wants an Accord as a first choice for a new car...
Sometimes I think it's easy to pick on GM because once upon a time, they were a leader in just about every segment when it came to popularity. PIckup trucks, full-sized cars, intermediates, personal luxury coupes, domestic luxury cars, etc. The only area where they tended to come up weak was in smaller cars, but they'd at least put in a decent effort. For instance, the Mustang almost always outsold the Camaro, but a Camaro was still nothing to be ashamed of. Ditto a Chevy II/Nova.
And, even as recently as 1985 (okay, I guess that's not so recent anymore, but it doesn't seem that long ago to me), GM had 7 of the top 10 selling car model nameplates.
But today, is there even a single category they lead in, anymore? The F-series has outsold the Silverado for ages now, and often outsells the Silverado/Sierra combined. In what they try to pass off as "large" cars nowadays, which has become more of a niche market, I have a feeling that the Taurus, and perhaps the Charger, are outselling the Impala. To be fair though, the Impala has moved considerably upmarket compared to the old one, which was a fleet queen. In midsized cars, which is now the bread and butter, it's usually the Accord and Camry that lead, with the Altima putting in a good showing as well. The Fusion has done well of late, but the Malibu is really lagging behind. And in compacts, the Civic and Corolla pretty much have that market wrapped up.
I guess in larger crossovers, GM does pretty well. I see a good turnout of Traverses and Terrains. And I tend to see more Tahoes, Yukons, and Suburbans than I do Expeditions. The Equinox also seems to sell pretty well.
It's easy to pick on GM because they deserve it. They need to fight their way out of their historical failures. I agree they are doing a good job of late but I like to keep the pressure on.
Some think GM has/can do little wrong and miss the tell-tale signs that not all is well at GM even now. At least they admit they made crappy cars so that's a huge philosophical improvement.
Next step is eliminating the "Crappy UAW" philosophy.
And never a peep about the US auto company formerly known as Chrysler.
The Chinese will be trying again.
Buffet-Backed BYD Prepares for Another Crack at the U.S. Auto Market (wallstcheatsheet.com/)
Meanwhile, they're quietly moving into Detroit.
"While the US automotive industry continues to rebound after its near collapse from the financial crisis few years back, China is quietly expanding its presence in the Detroit-based market. Encouraged by the low price of real estate and the high level of advanced engineering talent, dozens of Chinese auto companies and suppliers are opening plants and offices in and around the Motor City, where they hope to one day sell cars to US buyers."
Why China is stepping up its presence in Detroit auto industry (csmonitor.com)
The Chinese coming to Detroit will pseudo-ly upset a lot of 'Mericans but I could see it coming. Actually, I thought they'd export to the U.S. for a good while before they came to Detroit in person. Interesting topic for discussion...makes sense when you see how far they're coming along getting it down how to design a car and manufacture it. They're not up to snuff yet, but it will come. That statement prolly makes 'Mericans mad right dere!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I wouldn't say they put in a decent effort at all. As somebody who likes smaller cars that are not cheap, they've never been as competitive as they are today, and I still don't think they're anywhere near the lead in that segment.
How hard is it to make a carbon copy of someone else's car? That is basically how the Chinese design. Just using inferior materials
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It would be something if bought-off US policymakers had the cojones to hold any Chinese firms wishing to sell in the US to the same standard China holds US firms wishing to sell there. Heavily controlled joint ventures with loads of IP theft, etc. Some "partner", eh.
Oh, the Chinese selling cars here will be a hot and heavy topic sure to upset and bring angst and worry. I prefer the Japanese brand of automobile and will not jump on the Chery or FAW bandwagon anytime in the next 50 years. And that's final.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The Chinese will get slaughtered at first if they bring inferior crap here no matter how cheap. Who knows if they can even meet safety standards
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I think the Chinese are going to do things differently. BYD is coming in with electric cars so that's a small segment of the market. The Chinese are buying US real estate and companies on the cheap in order to get into the market.
60 minutes had a good story about the "clean tech" crash. One company featured was Wanxiang that has bought A123 and Smith Electric Trucks and today bid on Fiskar. As a company, they have 27 plants in 23 states employing 6000 Americans. The president of the company, Pin Ni, said in the interview that they send no money back to China but does share technology. Watch the segment - it's interesting.
When they do selling cars here, I feel they will be manufactured here, will get high safety scores and have unique styling. The Chinese have to get past the stigma of "Made in China" and know that consumers today value safety. Lastly, they won't be able to just foist inspired designs here - the IP laws are much stronger here and they would never get to market with copycat styling.
The First "Toyopets" (Toyota) to come to America in the late 1950s were viewed with contempt, and rightly so---they were ugly and thoroughly incompetent at freeway speeds in the USA. Only a handful of downtrodden salesmen, stuck with trying to sell them to Americans, noticed, to their surprise, that despite their disdain for the cars and their deliberate abuse of them (to get rid of them), these vehicles were surprisingly tough. It took a good ten years for Toyota to earn any kind of reputation here in the states.
As I was reading a few catchup posts, it was no shock to me at all that they have had their sights on Detroit. Then I was thought exactly what you posted here. You are absolutely right..if they screw around it will take longer than it took Hyundai to recover with their first import samples. Sometimes 'price' really isn't everything. I'm getting sick of buying a new 'whatever' (let's say garden hose nozzle) every single year because the rubber in the sealing areas inside is so crap, they crack and leak. They barely last a year. Countless other similar and different examples. This is also not good for our landfills and recycle depts.
That might be a key to making it in the first world. Local assembly and (probably) design, and likely a lot of materials from local vendors, too. There's a huge stigma to overcome, some of it probably unfair, but most of it, not. And even then, some will walk the other way based on the regime it supports. "Inspired" is a nice euphemism, too.