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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    The Korean makes do seem to be making a "run" for the recall title lately.

    Just wait a while, though.... There's always a competitor sitting out in the wings wanting to "one-up" the leader...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    How many thousand under MSRP did you pay for your Malibu again???...???

    Counting my GM card rebate, about $5,500.

    As a consumer, I consider that a good thing. As an armchair auto executive....well, I don't ever pretend to be one of those.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    Boy, Edmunds' experience sure didn't mirror the fellow who posted here not very long ago about his '11 model. They had no recalls, service bulletins, or reasons for anything but routine maintenance stops during their long-term test:

    http://www.edmunds.com/jeep/grand-cherokee/2012/long-term-road-test/wrap-up.html-
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    No, I mean like the Impala! ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2013
    Before anyone puts on party hats, GM is calling 800k cars in for oil changes and to reprogram the oil light to come on sooner.

    They're not even calling it a recall, though.

    I'd be pretty miffed if I got something I thought would be low maintenance and then they tell me I had to service it more frequently.

    It's not even about the cost, it's the extra visits.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're making profits nowadays.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You should watch the CR video from the NY show. They gush about the JGC.

    The main editor, Tom something, with the beard, bought a Durango Hemi for his wife, and he absolutely loves it.

    The other one owns an X3.

    Now I should find a link...hang on...

    Gabe Shenhar (X3) and Tom Mutchler (Durango):

    http://youtu.be/d-s2_NoAFqE

    Not exactly the Japanese name brand party you might expect.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Honestly, I think the current Malibu is "almost there". To be truly competitive, I'd give it a 2" stretch in wheelbase, making sure all of it goes to back seat legroom. And do something about the powertrain, which seems to come up short when it comes to fuel economy. The base 2.5 is rated 22/34. In comparison, the Camry is 25/35, Accord is 26/35 with a 7-speed automatic or 27/36 with a CVT. And the Altima is something like 27/38.

    In the overall scheme of things, that's not a huge difference. The EPA lists annual fuel costs for the Malibu at around $2100, compared to $1950 for the Camry and $1850 for the Accord CVT (15K miles per year, 55% city/45% highway). But, you can bet that when people cross-shop these cars, they focus on those fuel economy numbers.

    As for as fit and finish, quality, and such, I think the Malibu is okay. The interior might be considered a bit over-styled and busy, but I think it's decent quality, at least.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited April 2013
    Before anyone puts on party hats, GM is calling 800k cars in for oil changes and to reprogram the oil light to come on sooner.

    They're not even calling it a recall, though.

    I'd be pretty miffed if I got something I thought would be low maintenance and then they tell me I had to service it more frequently.


    What would yank my crank is if there's already engine damage, even though one followed the manufacturer's recommendations to the letter of the law, but not enough damage YET to indicate a premature failure.

    I suspect we haven't seen the end of this one yet...

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130405/CARNEWS/130409904

    GM began updating the software in December after noticing warranty claims for worn-out balance chains. The chains link the crankshaft and the balance shaft -- "just like the chain on your bicycle goes from the pedals to your back wheel" -- and make noise when they're worn, Adler said. The company declined to disclose the number of claims.

    Product investigators found that recalibrating the oil-life monitor will help the chains last longer, Adler said.

    The monitor "tells you when you should change your oil. It might be 5,000 miles, it might be 7,000 miles. It's going to vary based on how you drive your car," Adler said.

    "Those intervals between oil changes were longer, but now they're going to be a little shorter because we have to find the right balance between how long the parts last and how much lubricant the vehicle needs."

    Adler said the program is not a recall because it does not involve a safety issue.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited April 2013
    Just guessing, but since GM warranties the engine for 40K more miles than most everybody else, I'd think any issue would come up before the regular powertrain warranty is up.

    Hyundai's still the recall 'winner' this week. ;)

    I posted this elsewhere when it was posted by ateixera, but I never trusted the 'oil life monitor', ever. I was a religious 3K mile changer, but am probably up to 4K miles now. I wonder why the 2.4 Malibu isn't in the 'campaign'?

    My dealer does use partial synthetic in my Malibu--unlike my Cobalt--and says GM says to do that in '11 and newer cars. I've never checked in my owner's manual; I need to do that I guess.

    Apparently this issue isn't chronic enough for CR to have dropped their "Recommended" rating for the Equinox and Terrain. I still don't like the looks of the Equinox. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    And do something about the powertrain, which seems to come up short when it comes to fuel economy. The base 2.5 is rated 22/34. In comparison, the Camry is 25/35, Accord is 26/35 with a 7-speed automatic or 27/36 with a CVT. And the Altima is something like 27/38.

    I don't see why they couldn't do something about the FE. Take Mazda, a tiny company by GM standards. Their Mazda 3 engines weren't very efficient so they came up with a variety of improvement technologies, labeled it "SkyActiv", and now the Mazda 3 is among the best. GM should be able to do that if they had some focus.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    But aren't those profits mostly from corporate white collar welfare in the form of tax rebates, tax forgiveness, bailout forgiveness, and SUV and truck sales?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    I think Ford held Mazda back for years! Mazda might be a leading manufacturer today if it wasn't for Ford's negative influences.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Boy, Edmunds' experience sure didn't mirror the fellow who posted here not very long ago about his '11 model.

    Of course not. Did you read the review in the link you posted? This is a copied quote and explains why Edmunds would have a much better experience with a Chrysler product than the typical consumer:

    Resale and Depreciation:
    Jeep supplied a $62,880 Grand Cherokee SRT8 to us for the purpose of testing.


    Trust me, Chrysler didn't provide this specific vehicle for the purposes of honest scientific testing, but for marketing reasons.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited April 2013
    Um...do you believe that this car was a hand-built specimen or something? Come on, get real. And we're talking a long-term test, not a week of testing.

    Time to pinch yourself. Do you think Chrysler's handling of this long-term test vehicle was any different than any other manufacturer's, and do you think Edmunds doesn't list things that go wrong with their long-term vehicles?

    You talk about 'keeping it real', but I see a lot of lala land.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    edited April 2013
    >My dealer does use partial synthetic in my Malibu--unlike my Cobalt

    There are very few cases where this might make a difference, sort of like the flaws in many other brands of cars that are not GM. If a car is not requiring synthetic, the oil life monitor is geared for regular oil. If someone is using the basic oil and runs it fully to the 0% on the monitor AND if that driving is a lot of cold starts and short drives that don't help the oil purge the contaminants with heat, then that might affect the timing chain. But if someone is using partial or full synthetic oils, their oils probably outlive the monitor by 50% even with short drives. The one real key is the one oil change per year requirement.

    On the 3800 in my 03 leSabre, I run my Pennzoil Platinum synthetic to 40% or maybe 30% when it was summer and several long trips of 3-6 hours one way were involved. On the last Blackstone lab analysis, 8000 miles was suggested instead of the 6500 - 7000 mi, based on contaminants. Earlier an additive analysis had also indicated sufficient additives left at the end of the 7000 mi approx on that oil change.

    On the Cobalt which is a 2.2 engine, it had about 3-4 thousand miles on synthetic, but the 1 year requirement popped up and required an oil change. The oil life monitor was saying 70% IIRC. Most of that driving was trips of 15 miles for son's commute to his internship during the summer. So that oil wasn't worn out other than by time.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Um...do you believe that this car was a hand-built specimen or something?

    Maybe not hand-built, but certainly hand quality assured and controlled, something I'm sure other Chrysler's coming off the line never receive (unless done by a drunk who's high).

    Do you think Chrysler's handling of this long-term test vehicle was any different than any other manufacturer's,

    Yes, I think Chrysler is more willing to commit fraud than other manufacturers, they have a history of doing so.

    I have no idea how Edmunds normally gets their long term testers. I thought they went out and purchased them randomly like everyone else, but I guess if someone offers you a free 65,000 dollar car, it's hard to resist.

    I thought Edmunds did normally do like CR and purchased untainted product, but I could be wrong.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited April 2013
    Yes, you are wrong.

    CR does buy theirs, but I'm not aware of any long-term tests they've done like Edmunds and the mags do pretty routinely.

    If you really believe Edmunds is in some conspiracy with Chrysler in that their testing is different or the acquisition of the vehicle is different than other manufacturers, well....what else can be said. Best to leave it there I think.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I still don't let my oil go longer than 3K miles, so it doesn't matter to me.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I have no idea how Edmunds normally gets their long term testers. I thought they went out and purchased them randomly like everyone else

    Some we buy, some are furnished by the manufacturers. The loaner ones have a disclosure at the bottom of the review somewhere.

    Back to GM, I bet the real problem is their "proprietary" Dexos oil. :P

    (I know Busiris was waiting for me to get that shot in there, lol).
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I know edmunds reports some long term vehicles are purchased because they report what they get for them when they sell them at the end of the test.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    Yeah, and employees generally get first dibs on those, at TMV. They had to flip a coin recently when more than one employee wanted the long term 1996 Lexus ES 300 "beater" (that one wasn't a manufacturer loaner, lol). (link)

    In the long term tests, the disclaimer saying whether the car was loaned or purchased is usually at the bottom of the Introduction.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    You talk about 'keeping it real', but I see a lot of lala land.

    Of course, any make/model can be perfect or a disaster. Edmund's experience with one LT vehicle doesn't mean much of anything. Stats and customer sentiment both show Chrysler has had more awful than average stuff out there for a long time.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Back to GM, I bet the real problem is their "proprietary" Dexos oil

    What is the rationale for proprietary oil? It's bad enough when makes have proprietary fluids like coolant, etc.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    Upon looking, the 'Dexos' oil is what has been put in my '11 GM car since new at the dealer's.

    Looking online verifies what the dealer told me, that this started with '11-model vehicles. Funny that the 'campaign' includes '10-12 models, which would span Dexos/non-Dexos use.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    Of course, any make/model can be perfect or a disaster. Edmund's experience with one LT vehicle doesn't mean much of anything.

    Same with the one poster here about his Jeep.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    What is the rationale for proprietary oil?

    Oh no, don't get me started. :D

    That reminds me, the Outback needs some Subaru branded nitrogen in the tires.

    (The long term JGC SRT8 just wrapped up and drivers were pretty happy with it, especially after the run flats were swapped out. No hiccups in 23k miles).
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    edited April 2013
    > the Outback needs some Subaru branded nitrogen in the tires.

    Is that nitrogen imported from Japan?
    Made in the USA?
    Or just bottled in the USA after being imported?

    Do they threaten that they will void the warranty if Subaru brand nitrogen is not used? ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited April 2013
    What is the rationale for proprietary oil?

    Oh no, don't get me started. :D


    I run into that with our water craft. I do use Yamalube 10w-40 4W which is their watercraft 4stroke oil. Supposedly it has an additive package to deal with a marine environment. The stuff is nearly $10/qt, but the Waverunner has a dry sump oil system which I can only change about 3qts at a time and I only do it once a season, so it isn't a big deal. It is amazing how 1,052CC 20v 4cylinder can run 8k rpm all day long and not break a sweat.

    With our boat it's the same type of deal. Sure it has a Chevy 350 in it, but Mercruiser specifies their own oil, Mercury MerCruiser Full-Synthetic Engine Oil, 20W-40, NMMC FC-W rated. Which I guess is a low sulfur oil for protection of the catalyst. Prior to the Catalyzed engines, Merc never recommended synthetics. But marine engines can and sometimes do burn oil. Ours burned over a quart over the first 20 hours of use. I only have 30 hours on it now, hopefully with being broke in, oil use will drop.

    But like the waverunner, I only change the oil once a season, so I don't mind paying for the manufacturers oil even if it is a scam. At least if something breaks during the warranty period, they can't tell me I didn't use the proper oil.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Is that nitrogen imported from Japan?

    Yes, and what's cool is your tires will glow in the dark;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    I want to grab the 5W20 whatever jug that's on sale at Walmart or NAPA, glance to make sure it has the starburst logo on it and get out. I'd rather not be tied down to buying a "dexos spec" or other "branded" oil.

    The warranty issues are a concern, in spite of Magnuson-Moss.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    I'm not compelled to go anyplace else other than my dealer for an oil change...they do it cheaper than any of the in-'n-out places.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    Yeah, but I can do them myself for $15 or so.

    My problem is that I upsell myself with coffee, brownies or Hershey bars for watching the oil drain. :D
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited April 2013
    While my daughter was at her violin lesson today, I washed the Cobalt and decided to go to the nearest Chevy dealer to see if they had an Impala yet. If they did, I didn't see it. I did see a pearlescent white Malibu being test-driven. They had a lot of Malibus. I think I remember seeing here that the sticker price was being lowered, and that did appear to be the case on the couple I looked at. While with my wife and I in front, the back seat would probably be OK but I still don't like going backwards in rear-seat room from ours to a new one. That said, I think the interior is significantly more upscale than ours.

    I looked at an "LZ", which must be what the old "LTZ" was called. It had the 2.5, but had a very nice two-tone leather inside and sunroof. About the only thing I saw that it wouldn't have had is the Turbo engine. Sticker was just a hundred or two over $30K. An almost exact duplicate of our '11--color, interior material and color, and options--a 1LT--stickered at $25.2K, about $600 more than the sticker of our '11. I'm almost certain both of these are lower than earlier '13's I've looked at. I didn't notice/look at any of the lowest-priced LS models.

    As said previously, I saw a Fusion Titanium (I don't know what engine) that stickered at $35K, a month or so ago. That is a good bit more than the Malibu, in percentage dollars, considering especially Ford saved on Mexican labor. ;)

    Just an observation.

    Just stumbled on this blog about Malibu space versus everybody else. Interesting observations, including the comments below, as such comments always are, both pro and con:

    http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/10/just-how-spacious-is-the-2013-chevy-malibu/

    Another observation--and you heard it here first--I saw where Chevy will be offering a "Hot Wheels" Camaro. That wins my award for dumbest marketing of a sports car. Would anyone be more compelled to buy a Camaro because of a 'Hot Wheels' edition? Supposedly, the car doesn't need much to sell well....why this?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited April 2013
    Back to GM, I bet the real problem is their "proprietary" Dexos oil.

    (I know Busiris was waiting for me to get that shot in there, lol).


    I dunno... Which is better? Change your oil with a brand name synthetic that, on the surface, meets the obvious needs of the car (correct weight, etc.) every 3-4 K miles, or run the manufacturer EXACT spec'ed oil, but change it strictly by the on-board computer's notification (sometimes 12-15 K miles or more)?

    I'd like to see a long term study on that exact process, but if I absolutely had to guess, I'd say the better option of the two would be changing the oil every 3-4 K miles, assuming a "normal" driving environment.

    But, like I always tell folks, when in doubt, run the lubricants that fully meet the manufacturer's specifications.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    The Chev oil life monitor factors in short trips, hard accels, and everything else rpm and temp related. You don't need to factor in anything except the % left readout.

    I did notice my gas mileage jump up 1 mpg with an oil change when I took it down to zero %. I was trying to get to that first 50 degree day in March. I think it was about 8500 miles to get to 0%.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Proprietary anything drives me nuts. They're trying to force you to choose one supplier (them).

    I come across this a lot in the IT world. Now when we evaluate we account for that since it affects operating costs.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited April 2013
    As said previously, I saw a Fusion Titanium (I don't know what engine) that stickered at $35K, a month or so ago. That is a good bit more than the Malibu, in percentage dollars, considering especially Ford saved on Mexican labor. ;)

    You'd have to take content into consideration. I think the Fusion has a few options not available on the Malibu such as AWD, active park assist, and adaptive cruise control which add thousands, AWD is nearly $2k alone.

    A Platinum Fusion starts around $30k. I bet option to option the Fusion and Malibu are similar in price.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    I'll take your word for it. I don't believe one could get a Malibu up to $35K, so I'll assume it's because the Titanium had other options. Frankly, I saw the $35K at the bottom, and turned away stunned.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    While I admit, changing your oil every 3-4K miles will never hurt your car, it's truly not necessary anymore, especially with Synthetic. Total waste of money. Ford recommends 7500 now.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Twice as many chances to strip the oil plug. :D
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I don't believe one could get a Malibu up to $35K.

    I agree. I went to the Chevrolet site and used the "build" option. I selected the most expensive base model (2LTZ, I think it was) and added every available option. The price totaled up to a tad less than $34 K, and that was before the $2500 discount figured in at the end.

    I do think the Titanium has more available options...
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    My wife was looking at BMW 3-series and the recommended OC for those is 12 months/15k miles!

    Can one really risk that kind of mileage between changes? :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They use expensive proprietary synthetic oil to reach that interval.

    You probably spend more than you would doing conventional changes at 5k.

    I seem to recall some ridiculous cost per quart. Anyone?
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    My wife was looking at BMW 3-series and the recommended OC for those is 12 months/15k miles!

    Can one really risk that kind of mileage between changes?


    I own 3 BMW products, and I don't follow the "suggested" interval. IMO, oil/filter change costs just aren't that significant.

    Lots of owners do follow the recommended change intervals, though...
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I seem to recall some ridiculous cost per quart. Anyone?

    I pay $6.70/qt. at my local BMW dealership, and right at $10 for the filter/o-rings, etc.

    I'd pay more if I bought name brand oil at Walmart.

    I can't say anything about what other dealerships charge...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's not unreasonable at all. Perhaps different dealers charge more?

    You know how it goes, people love to complain.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I've never had the dealer do an oil service where I had to pay, but I'd guess it could be pricey at a BMW dealer. I don't think they do any service cheaply...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    When my local Chevy dealer closed in the "restructuring", many of the Service Dept. personnel went to a dealer about six congested miles further away. The first two or three times I went there for oil changes (as I liked and trusted the Service Dept. personnel), I'd smile and say, "I HATE driving this far for service!". At the end, the Service Manager would say, "Ah, it's on us today". Wished it still were. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >I'd pay more if I bought name brand oil at Walmart.

    Your Walmart must charge more for oil than Walmart close to me. I think $5 quart in 5 qt. containers is typical for synthetics.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

This discussion has been closed.