I was comparing qt. to qt. pricing, since BMW doesn't sell oil by the gallon or 5 qt. bottle. And, the N52 6-cylinder BMW engines take 7 qts. For an oil change.
That's 30 mpg with our notoriously frisky right foot in a vehicle that tips the scales at 4,190 pounds and can scoot to 60 miles per hour in 5.6 seconds. Numbers like that can bring a tear to a grown man's eye.
drop the car into Sport S mode, and the big barge cleans up nicely. Throttle mapping and transmission logic grow a bit more energetic, and Sport S+ mode sharpens up the steering and suspension damping in ways that shouldn't be possible
Ironically enough, yesterday I noticed that my 2012 Ram seemed to be putting off more heat than I thought it would. The tire pressure light came on, so I was using one of those little cigarette lighter powered things to fill them up. My bigger compressor, which plugs into a regular outlet, was old and finally fried itself a couple months ago.
Anyway, I let the truck run while I had the little compressor thingie going., and thought damn...this thing seems awfully hot!
Oh, and if I didn't need enough evidence that this truck is too danged big...that little compressor wouldn't quite reach the back tires. Should be fine for just about any car though, I guess. As long as the wheelbase is less than 140.5"!
Some we buy, some are furnished by the manufacturers. The loaner ones have a disclosure at the bottom of the review somewhere.
An important disclosure, as the 2 cents of credibility goes out the window when they are "loaners" from the manufacturer. I'm fine with the way Edmunds does it, at least they disclose the disclosure.
When I said "I thought they went out and purchased them randomly like everyone else." I meant like every other consumer, not every other mag. I know CR is the only one that buys exclusively 100% of the time randomly from the manufacturers without them knowing where and when they are buying.
I think Uplander misunderstood me.
I don't believe Edmunds is in a conspiracy, I just believe that Chrysler's "loaners" are more reliable than their typical product sold to the masses.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I should have said that we disclose whether the long term fleet cars are loaners or purchased. You'll see similar language on most regular reviews too, stuff like "The manufacturer provided Edmunds this vehicle for the purposes of evaluation" or Edmunds was invited to a manufacturer sponsored event or whatever. (The best swag comes from the sponsored events; apparently it gets tossed on a table at the home office and it's first come, first served. So us off-site hosts always miss out. :sick: ).
I would think that the manufacturer loaners are better in certain ways - I'm sure the mfrs screen those vehicles very well and you wouldn't see major issues like fit/finish/assembly.
Given that, it's still the same vehicle as you'd buy, so if the engine is unrefined or not economical, I don't know how that would be any different. And if certain parts are going to fail early on a long term tester, then I doubt that would be any different, either.
So the manufacturer-supplied vehicles probably have some slight advantage in a review, but certainly not a huge one, I would guess.
Good point, they probably are inspected very carefully.
At the same time, though, they are used and abused. I would never buy a used car from a press fleet. Lots of full throttle launches, squealing tires, etc.
I would not be surprised if they were "ringers", too. For instance, compromises are made to meet emissions standards, so it would not surprise me if they were tuned to make more power/economy at the cost of higher emissions. It's not like the press cars are tested for emissions.
I dunno - that could backfire big time if a bunch of great reviews came out from the car mags and then consumers (and CR) complained about the lack of power or bad mpg with the same model.
You mean the part about "Outstanding fuel economy on all models"?
That was the 2012 review - for 2013 the full review said "In our testing, however, we've noticed that the Elantra struggles to achieve its highway number in real-world driving."
And if certain parts are going to fail early on a long term tester, then I doubt that would be any different, either.
I'll give you a few scenarios where that isn't true.
For instance, maybe 1 in every 10 belts Chrysler buys gets rejected by quality control (whether it be a timing or serpentine belt or any other). Well, when they are making them for customers, they might save money by removing that QA QC person selecting the 1 in ten to be discarded, but when they select one for the press, they'll be sure to do that QA and QC.
Another example would be if they get the same part from two different suppliers and factories, spec'd the same, but they can never be built identically; one is going to be better than the other. Shortcuts they would normally take, will not be taken. There's hundreds of parts in a car, it's not just the engine and transmission that will affect performance and longevity. For instance, using bad metals in cables and wiring to hook up a bad battery will surely corrode faster than good metal cables and wiring hooked up to the same bad battery.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I think we'd all like to think that loaners are 'inspected very carefully'...and they probably do get a second look-over...but I've seen many a magazine review over 30 years or more where obvious sloppy workmanship has been pointed out in photos of test cars...some, pretty obvious stuff.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
German, too. The German half was founded earlier and they designed the first air bag.
If I ventured a guess, I'd say the Germans engineered the safety aspects (bag design, inflation, position, etc) and the Japanese the electronic controls.
True, but I don't think car mags ever got cars from dealerships, even back then. I'm talking the ilk of Car and Driver, Motor Trend, et al.
When my Dad would buy a car, he'd usually buy on Monday night and they'd tell us the car would be ready Thursday. It'd be waxed. Now, you can drive them right home. I don't think any new vehicle gets waxed by the dealer. Not sure what dealer prep the manufacturers get for their money at the dealership level...a quick wash job probably.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The paint may need to "cure" for a while before waxing too.
Don't hear much about rail dust anymore. I've seen Audi's shrink-wrapped on car carriers. Guess they've done something with rail transport to fix that problem.
They call it PDI nowadays, Pre-Delivery Inspection. They basically take all the plastic off and deflate the tires (they usually ship overinflated to prevent flat-spotting).
Much less prep than they used to do.
Customers love shiny new paint so cars in lots are washed quite often. The pollen around her is so bad that's a lot!
Modern paint is cured by the time it leaves the factory. I waxed my new car within a week of taking delivery, and will likely do it every few months just out of habit (the shape of the new car is somehow much quicker to clean than the old car).
I've always thought the wrapped Audis were kind of an attention-getting idea under the guise of protection.
They call it PDI nowadays, Pre-Delivery Inspection. They basically take all the plastic off and deflate the tires (they usually ship overinflated to prevent flat-spotting).
I doubt many even check the tire pressure.
The most common PDI I've seen lately is going through the process of checking off the boxes on the PDI list... That's it.
The last truck I bought had that checklist completed and lying in the passenger seat when I picked up the truck. One line item was "floor mats installed". Yep, they were installed, behind the front seat in the extended cab area, still in the plastic wrapper...
I remember the first time I saw a truck of Audis like that, it was pretty remarkable. But now I wonder why nobody else goes to such lengths. Many cars have some protective coverings, but nothing like that.
I didn't even ask about the gas cap, but as long as the paint is baked, I don't think it is a big deal.
but I've seen many a magazine review over 30 years or more where obvious sloppy workmanship has been pointed out in photos of test cars...some, pretty obvious stuff.
Yes, and that should serve as a great warning to consumers out there to BEWARE, be SCARED, and be CONCERNED.
If the cream of the crop ringer from a company has obvious sloppy workmanship, you can expect even worse from the regular every day typical model. Expect exponentially worse things from the stuff you can't "see" with your own eyes.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Today, I called the dealer I usually go to, asking if they had an Impala yet (production started two weeks ago in Ontario and this week in MI). I should have asked for the guy who sold me my Malibu, as probably two weeks ago he told me they expected one in 'three weeks or so'. The guy who answered the phone said, 'we probably won't get one of those for a few months' and I said, 'Really? They've been building them for a couple of weeks' and he replied, 'yeah, but they gotta get 'em shipped and all that'. I hate when I know more about product than a salesperson.
I later went to put gas in my Cobalt and stopped in the nearest Chevy dealer (not the one I usually frequent). Didn't see any outside, and stopped in the showroom. Now, I'll admit, I'm short, balding, chubby, and my daily clothes (since I work at home) are scruffy. An older salesman asked if I needed help. Told him I was wondering if they'd gotten a '14 Impala in yet. He said, "Probably by the end of the month." His tone changed dramatically when I inquired about a model they didn't have yet...rather dismissive. Climbing back into a five-year-old Cobalt probably didn't help my image.
In '85, at age 27 and dressed about like today, I walked into Tim Timmers Chevy in Norcross, GA and was ignored by several salesman. I had to ask one to help me as he walked by me. I left that day with an order for a $12.9K (not bad for those days) Celebrity Eurosport Coupe.
I know people gotta work, but I don't think I could sell cars I had no personal interest in. But that sure seems like it's the case, doesn't it?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The guy who answered the phone said, 'we probably won't get one of those for a few months' and I said, 'Really? They've been building them for a couple of weeks' and he replied, 'yeah, but they gotta get 'em shipped and all that'. I hate when I know more about product than a salesperson.
Heck, I wonder how he thinks they ship cars... On the backs of pack mules?
I know people gotta work, but I don't think I could sell cars I had no personal interest in. But that sure seems like it's the case, doesn't it?
Hey, it's not just car sales. One can find that same exact behavior in places like Best Buy, etc.
I bought a new MB wearing a t-shirt and jeans - but people around here are pretty casual (and I did drive up in a MB), so the salespeople maybe don't pre-judge too much.
Sometimes it is too bad being a car salesman is more about the selling game than knowledge. Most I have ever talked to seem to know a little, but the die-hards aren't common, especially in volume brands. It's all about selling.
Aren't quite a few cars shipped from overseas these days basically shrink wrapped or equivalent for the ocean voyage? It may be that Audi leaves it on until it gets to the dealer, while some others do inspection and touch up after leaving the ship at the arriving port. Heck, various items made overseas are sometimes even shrink wrapped before boarding aircraft transports. In fact, I think the military is doing some of that now too.
I bought a new MB wearing a t-shirt and jeans - but people around here are pretty casual (and I did drive up in a MB), so the salespeople maybe don't pre-judge too much.
My experiences are that even people who don't look like much can be very well off. Any salesperson who prejudges to that degree is risking a sale.
Especially true in this area, where people tend to dress very casual, and there are many childless younger people with money to spend. I've been a lookie-loo at many highline dealers in the area, most of the time was attended to just fine. But have been ignored at some mainstream dealers, too.
The guy who answered the phone said, 'we probably won't get one of those for a few months' and I said, 'Really? They've been building them for a couple of weeks' and he replied, 'yeah, but they gotta get 'em shipped and all that'. I hate when I know more about product than a salesperson.
Uplander, keep in mind that the factory needs to build enough inventory to stock all the dealers in both the US and Canada. The first few weeks of production are stored away, then they are all shipped to the dealer at the same time.
So, yeah, I can see a month's delay from 'start of production' to 'now available at your local dealer'.
My experiences are that even people who don't look like much can be very well off. Any salesperson who prejudges to that degree is risking a sale.
My Stude dealer friend told me a guy came in, dirty and scruffy, and inquired as to the single Golden Hawk they had in inventory. My friend admits to first thinking the guy was a 'tire kicker'...until the guy pulled $4,000 cash out of his pants pocket to pay cash for the car! My friend said he learned that lesson that day.
Of course, our town, although only 9K population then, had several factories where guys did OK then.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Comments
I was comparing qt. to qt. pricing, since BMW doesn't sell oil by the gallon or 5 qt. bottle. And, the N52 6-cylinder BMW engines take 7 qts. For an oil change.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/08/2013-best-cars-for-families-rankings-from-u-s- -news-resul/
That's 30 mpg with our notoriously frisky right foot in a vehicle that tips the scales at 4,190 pounds and can scoot to 60 miles per hour in 5.6 seconds. Numbers like that can bring a tear to a grown man's eye.
drop the car into Sport S mode, and the big barge cleans up nicely. Throttle mapping and transmission logic grow a bit more energetic, and Sport S+ mode sharpens up the steering and suspension damping in ways that shouldn't be possible
The catch? $71 grand? And it's not an LS?
When including related recalls in Mexico, Canada and other countries, the recall total rises to about 260,000 vehicles, Chrysler said.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130409/OEM11/130409884/chry- sler-recalls-more-than-214000-vehicles-in-u-s&cciid=email-autonews-daily#ixzz2Q0- 9o2oAQ
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Anyway, I let the truck run while I had the little compressor thingie going., and thought damn...this thing seems awfully hot!
Oh, and if I didn't need enough evidence that this truck is too danged big...that little compressor wouldn't quite reach the back tires.
What was strange was they announced all 6 at the same time.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults.action?searchType=ID&targetCat- egory=R&searchCriteria.nhtsa_ids=13V115&refurl=email
16 2/3%
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
An important disclosure, as the 2 cents of credibility goes out the window when they are "loaners" from the manufacturer. I'm fine with the way Edmunds does it, at least they disclose the disclosure.
When I said "I thought they went out and purchased them randomly like everyone else." I meant like every other consumer, not every other mag. I know CR is the only one that buys exclusively 100% of the time randomly from the manufacturers without them knowing where and when they are buying.
I think Uplander misunderstood me.
I don't believe Edmunds is in a conspiracy, I just believe that Chrysler's "loaners" are more reliable than their typical product sold to the masses.
Given that, it's still the same vehicle as you'd buy, so if the engine is unrefined or not economical, I don't know how that would be any different. And if certain parts are going to fail early on a long term tester, then I doubt that would be any different, either.
So the manufacturer-supplied vehicles probably have some slight advantage in a review, but certainly not a huge one, I would guess.
At the same time, though, they are used and abused. I would never buy a used car from a press fleet. Lots of full throttle launches, squealing tires, etc.
I would not be surprised if they were "ringers", too. For instance, compromises are made to meet emissions standards, so it would not surprise me if they were tuned to make more power/economy at the cost of higher emissions. It's not like the press cars are tested for emissions.
That was the 2012 review - for 2013 the full review said "In our testing, however, we've noticed that the Elantra struggles to achieve its highway number in real-world driving."
I'll give you a few scenarios where that isn't true.
For instance, maybe 1 in every 10 belts Chrysler buys gets rejected by quality control (whether it be a timing or serpentine belt or any other). Well, when they are making them for customers, they might save money by removing that QA QC person selecting the 1 in ten to be discarded, but when they select one for the press, they'll be sure to do that QA and QC.
Another example would be if they get the same part from two different suppliers and factories, spec'd the same, but they can never be built identically; one is going to be better than the other. Shortcuts they would normally take, will not be taken. There's hundreds of parts in a car, it's not just the engine and transmission that will affect performance and longevity. For instance, using bad metals in cables and wiring to hook up a bad battery will surely corrode faster than good metal cables and wiring hooked up to the same bad battery.
Also, car shows seem to be addicted to drifting and burnouts lately. Blame Top Gear for that trend.
Honda, Nissan and Toyota in massive recall
This is why I like Automotive News, here's a more complete story:
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130411/COPY01/304119870/toy- ota-other-japanese-automakers-recall-3-4-million-vehicles-over&cciid=email-auton- ews-blast#axzz2Q9a2n5fS
So 6 automakers should announce recalls soon.
Looks like they're half German, half Japanese:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takata_Corporation
They were pioneers and put the first air bags in a Benz.
If I ventured a guess, I'd say the Germans engineered the safety aspects (bag design, inflation, position, etc) and the Japanese the electronic controls.
That's just a guess.
When my Dad would buy a car, he'd usually buy on Monday night and they'd tell us the car would be ready Thursday. It'd be waxed. Now, you can drive them right home. I don't think any new vehicle gets waxed by the dealer. Not sure what dealer prep the manufacturers get for their money at the dealership level...a quick wash job probably.
Don't hear much about rail dust anymore. I've seen Audi's shrink-wrapped on car carriers. Guess they've done something with rail transport to fix that problem.
Much less prep than they used to do.
Customers love shiny new paint so cars in lots are washed quite often. The pollen around her is so bad that's a lot!
I've always thought the wrapped Audis were kind of an attention-getting idea under the guise of protection.
I doubt many even check the tire pressure.
The most common PDI I've seen lately is going through the process of checking off the boxes on the PDI list... That's it.
The last truck I bought had that checklist completed and lying in the passenger seat when I picked up the truck. One line item was "floor mats installed". Yep, they were installed, behind the front seat in the extended cab area, still in the plastic wrapper...
I'm still living in '99. :shades:
So, did you also wax the "freshly painted" gas door?
The Audi's did get my attention.
I didn't even ask about the gas cap, but as long as the paint is baked, I don't think it is a big deal.
Yes, and that should serve as a great warning to consumers out there to BEWARE, be SCARED, and be CONCERNED.
If the cream of the crop ringer from a company has obvious sloppy workmanship, you can expect even worse from the regular every day typical model. Expect exponentially worse things from the stuff you can't "see" with your own eyes.
Thanks, I appreciate the 'heads up'.
I later went to put gas in my Cobalt and stopped in the nearest Chevy dealer (not the one I usually frequent). Didn't see any outside, and stopped in the showroom. Now, I'll admit, I'm short, balding, chubby, and my daily clothes (since I work at home) are scruffy. An older salesman asked if I needed help. Told him I was wondering if they'd gotten a '14 Impala in yet. He said, "Probably by the end of the month." His tone changed dramatically when I inquired about a model they didn't have yet...rather dismissive. Climbing back into a five-year-old Cobalt probably didn't help my image.
In '85, at age 27 and dressed about like today, I walked into Tim Timmers Chevy in Norcross, GA and was ignored by several salesman. I had to ask one to help me as he walked by me. I left that day with an order for a $12.9K (not bad for those days) Celebrity Eurosport Coupe.
I know people gotta work, but I don't think I could sell cars I had no personal interest in. But that sure seems like it's the case, doesn't it?
You're a walking Chevy encyclopedia.
Heck, I wonder how he thinks they ship cars... On the backs of pack mules?
I know people gotta work, but I don't think I could sell cars I had no personal interest in. But that sure seems like it's the case, doesn't it?
Hey, it's not just car sales. One can find that same exact behavior in places like Best Buy, etc.
Sometimes it is too bad being a car salesman is more about the selling game than knowledge. Most I have ever talked to seem to know a little, but the die-hards aren't common, especially in volume brands. It's all about selling.
My experiences are that even people who don't look like much can be very well off. Any salesperson who prejudges to that degree is risking a sale.
Uplander, keep in mind that the factory needs to build enough inventory to stock all the dealers in both the US and Canada. The first few weeks of production are stored away, then they are all shipped to the dealer at the same time.
So, yeah, I can see a month's delay from 'start of production' to 'now available at your local dealer'.
My Stude dealer friend told me a guy came in, dirty and scruffy, and inquired as to the single Golden Hawk they had in inventory. My friend admits to first thinking the guy was a 'tire kicker'...until the guy pulled $4,000 cash out of his pants pocket to pay cash for the car! My friend said he learned that lesson that day.
Of course, our town, although only 9K population then, had several factories where guys did OK then.