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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    No, it's about the same here.

    I was comparing qt. to qt. pricing, since BMW doesn't sell oil by the gallon or 5 qt. bottle. And, the N52 6-cylinder BMW engines take 7 qts. For an oil change.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, so they're more known for ranking colleges, but a win is a win, right?

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/08/2013-best-cars-for-families-rankings-from-u-s- -news-resul/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/09/2013-lexus-gs450h-review-video/

    That's 30 mpg with our notoriously frisky right foot in a vehicle that tips the scales at 4,190 pounds and can scoot to 60 miles per hour in 5.6 seconds. Numbers like that can bring a tear to a grown man's eye.

    drop the car into Sport S mode, and the big barge cleans up nicely. Throttle mapping and transmission logic grow a bit more energetic, and Sport S+ mode sharpens up the steering and suspension damping in ways that shouldn't be possible


    The catch? $71 grand? And it's not an LS?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Buy one, get 5 free?

    When including related recalls in Mexico, Canada and other countries, the recall total rises to about 260,000 vehicles, Chrysler said.

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130409/OEM11/130409884/chry- sler-recalls-more-than-214000-vehicles-in-u-s&cciid=email-autonews-daily#ixzz2Q0- 9o2oAQ
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    Number of vehicles affected still a fraction of Hyundai's most recent recalls.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Ironically enough, yesterday I noticed that my 2012 Ram seemed to be putting off more heat than I thought it would. The tire pressure light came on, so I was using one of those little cigarette lighter powered things to fill them up. My bigger compressor, which plugs into a regular outlet, was old and finally fried itself a couple months ago.

    Anyway, I let the truck run while I had the little compressor thingie going., and thought damn...this thing seems awfully hot!

    Oh, and if I didn't need enough evidence that this truck is too danged big...that little compressor wouldn't quite reach the back tires. :blush: Should be fine for just about any car though, I guess. As long as the wheelbase is less than 140.5"!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They said 3500, maybe yours isn't affected?

    What was strange was they announced all 6 at the same time.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, it is bug-fix Tuesday. Everyone else may as well jump on the Microsoft bandwagon.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess it is better than 6 separate recall announcements, given the total volume wasn't huge.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    There's something to be said for taking your punishment all at once, instead of 16 1/2% at the time...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Speaking of Hyundai, another one, for headliners that could detach and fall. That would suck. ;)

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults.action?searchType=ID&targetCat- egory=R&searchCriteria.nhtsa_ids=13V115&refurl=email
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,676
    >16 1/2% at the time...

    16 2/3% :blush:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Some we buy, some are furnished by the manufacturers. The loaner ones have a disclosure at the bottom of the review somewhere.

    An important disclosure, as the 2 cents of credibility goes out the window when they are "loaners" from the manufacturer. I'm fine with the way Edmunds does it, at least they disclose the disclosure.

    When I said "I thought they went out and purchased them randomly like everyone else." I meant like every other consumer, not every other mag. I know CR is the only one that buys exclusively 100% of the time randomly from the manufacturers without them knowing where and when they are buying.

    I think Uplander misunderstood me.

    I don't believe Edmunds is in a conspiracy, I just believe that Chrysler's "loaners" are more reliable than their typical product sold to the masses.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    I should have said that we disclose whether the long term fleet cars are loaners or purchased. You'll see similar language on most regular reviews too, stuff like "The manufacturer provided Edmunds this vehicle for the purposes of evaluation" or Edmunds was invited to a manufacturer sponsored event or whatever. (The best swag comes from the sponsored events; apparently it gets tossed on a table at the home office and it's first come, first served. So us off-site hosts always miss out. :sick: ).
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I would think that the manufacturer loaners are better in certain ways - I'm sure the mfrs screen those vehicles very well and you wouldn't see major issues like fit/finish/assembly.

    Given that, it's still the same vehicle as you'd buy, so if the engine is unrefined or not economical, I don't know how that would be any different. And if certain parts are going to fail early on a long term tester, then I doubt that would be any different, either.

    So the manufacturer-supplied vehicles probably have some slight advantage in a review, but certainly not a huge one, I would guess.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good point, they probably are inspected very carefully.

    At the same time, though, they are used and abused. I would never buy a used car from a press fleet. Lots of full throttle launches, squealing tires, etc.

    I would not be surprised if they were "ringers", too. For instance, compromises are made to meet emissions standards, so it would not surprise me if they were tuned to make more power/economy at the cost of higher emissions. It's not like the press cars are tested for emissions.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Well, I was close... LOL!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    I dunno - that could backfire big time if a bunch of great reviews came out from the car mags and then consumers (and CR) complained about the lack of power or bad mpg with the same model.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    *cough* Elantra *cough*
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    You mean the part about "Outstanding fuel economy on all models"? :blush:

    That was the 2012 review - for 2013 the full review said "In our testing, however, we've noticed that the Elantra struggles to achieve its highway number in real-world driving."
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    And if certain parts are going to fail early on a long term tester, then I doubt that would be any different, either.

    I'll give you a few scenarios where that isn't true.

    For instance, maybe 1 in every 10 belts Chrysler buys gets rejected by quality control (whether it be a timing or serpentine belt or any other). Well, when they are making them for customers, they might save money by removing that QA QC person selecting the 1 in ten to be discarded, but when they select one for the press, they'll be sure to do that QA and QC.

    Another example would be if they get the same part from two different suppliers and factories, spec'd the same, but they can never be built identically; one is going to be better than the other. Shortcuts they would normally take, will not be taken. There's hundreds of parts in a car, it's not just the engine and transmission that will affect performance and longevity. For instance, using bad metals in cables and wiring to hook up a bad battery will surely corrode faster than good metal cables and wiring hooked up to the same bad battery.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    If a car can't handle full throttle launches then they need to stop building it.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure it can, but clutches and tires will wear differently when it's done routinely.

    Also, car shows seem to be addicted to drifting and burnouts lately. Blame Top Gear for that trend.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    GM is not leading anymore....

    Honda, Nissan and Toyota in massive recall
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford and M-B also used them, as well as Mazda.

    This is why I like Automotive News, here's a more complete story:

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130411/COPY01/304119870/toy- ota-other-japanese-automakers-recall-3-4-million-vehicles-over&cciid=email-auton- ews-blast#axzz2Q9a2n5fS

    So 6 automakers should announce recalls soon.

    Looks like they're half German, half Japanese:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takata_Corporation

    They were pioneers and put the first air bags in a Benz.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    I think we'd all like to think that loaners are 'inspected very carefully'...and they probably do get a second look-over...but I've seen many a magazine review over 30 years or more where obvious sloppy workmanship has been pointed out in photos of test cars...some, pretty obvious stuff.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    A Japan-based supplier? Say it isn't so!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Back then they used to rely on dealerships to fix stuff like that. Nowadays that's done at the factory.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    German, too. The German half was founded earlier and they designed the first air bag.

    If I ventured a guess, I'd say the Germans engineered the safety aspects (bag design, inflation, position, etc) and the Japanese the electronic controls.

    That's just a guess.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    True, but I don't think car mags ever got cars from dealerships, even back then. I'm talking the ilk of Car and Driver, Motor Trend, et al.

    When my Dad would buy a car, he'd usually buy on Monday night and they'd tell us the car would be ready Thursday. It'd be waxed. Now, you can drive them right home. I don't think any new vehicle gets waxed by the dealer. Not sure what dealer prep the manufacturers get for their money at the dealership level...a quick wash job probably.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The paint may need to "cure" for a while before waxing too.

    Don't hear much about rail dust anymore. I've seen Audi's shrink-wrapped on car carriers. Guess they've done something with rail transport to fix that problem.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They call it PDI nowadays, Pre-Delivery Inspection. They basically take all the plastic off and deflate the tires (they usually ship overinflated to prevent flat-spotting).

    Much less prep than they used to do.

    Customers love shiny new paint so cars in lots are washed quite often. The pollen around her is so bad that's a lot!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Modern paint is cured by the time it leaves the factory. I waxed my new car within a week of taking delivery, and will likely do it every few months just out of habit (the shape of the new car is somehow much quicker to clean than the old car).

    I've always thought the wrapped Audis were kind of an attention-getting idea under the guise of protection.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    They call it PDI nowadays, Pre-Delivery Inspection. They basically take all the plastic off and deflate the tires (they usually ship overinflated to prevent flat-spotting).

    I doubt many even check the tire pressure.

    The most common PDI I've seen lately is going through the process of checking off the boxes on the PDI list... That's it.

    The last truck I bought had that checklist completed and lying in the passenger seat when I picked up the truck. One line item was "floor mats installed". Yep, they were installed, behind the front seat in the extended cab area, still in the plastic wrapper...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2013
    Modern paint is cured by the time it leaves the factory.

    I'm still living in '99. :shades:

    So, did you also wax the "freshly painted" gas door?

    The Audi's did get my attention.
    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    I'm anxious to but haven't. Oshawa began production a few weeks ago and Hamtramck started earlier this week.
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  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    There was a USA TODAY article on the Impala in today's newspaper.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    I remember the first time I saw a truck of Audis like that, it was pretty remarkable. But now I wonder why nobody else goes to such lengths. Many cars have some protective coverings, but nothing like that.

    I didn't even ask about the gas cap, but as long as the paint is baked, I don't think it is a big deal.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    but I've seen many a magazine review over 30 years or more where obvious sloppy workmanship has been pointed out in photos of test cars...some, pretty obvious stuff.

    Yes, and that should serve as a great warning to consumers out there to BEWARE, be SCARED, and be CONCERNED.

    If the cream of the crop ringer from a company has obvious sloppy workmanship, you can expect even worse from the regular every day typical model. Expect exponentially worse things from the stuff you can't "see" with your own eyes.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    There was a USA TODAY article on the Impala in today's newspaper.

    Thanks, I appreciate the 'heads up'.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    edited April 2013
    Today, I called the dealer I usually go to, asking if they had an Impala yet (production started two weeks ago in Ontario and this week in MI). I should have asked for the guy who sold me my Malibu, as probably two weeks ago he told me they expected one in 'three weeks or so'. The guy who answered the phone said, 'we probably won't get one of those for a few months' and I said, 'Really? They've been building them for a couple of weeks' and he replied, 'yeah, but they gotta get 'em shipped and all that'. I hate when I know more about product than a salesperson.

    I later went to put gas in my Cobalt and stopped in the nearest Chevy dealer (not the one I usually frequent). Didn't see any outside, and stopped in the showroom. Now, I'll admit, I'm short, balding, chubby, and my daily clothes (since I work at home) are scruffy. An older salesman asked if I needed help. Told him I was wondering if they'd gotten a '14 Impala in yet. He said, "Probably by the end of the month." His tone changed dramatically when I inquired about a model they didn't have yet...rather dismissive. Climbing back into a five-year-old Cobalt probably didn't help my image. ;)

    In '85, at age 27 and dressed about like today, I walked into Tim Timmers Chevy in Norcross, GA and was ignored by several salesman. I had to ask one to help me as he walked by me. I left that day with an order for a $12.9K (not bad for those days) Celebrity Eurosport Coupe.

    I know people gotta work, but I don't think I could sell cars I had no personal interest in. But that sure seems like it's the case, doesn't it?
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're salesmen. They know how to sell (and up-sell).

    You're a walking Chevy encyclopedia. ;)
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    The guy who answered the phone said, 'we probably won't get one of those for a few months' and I said, 'Really? They've been building them for a couple of weeks' and he replied, 'yeah, but they gotta get 'em shipped and all that'. I hate when I know more about product than a salesperson.

    Heck, I wonder how he thinks they ship cars... On the backs of pack mules?


    I know people gotta work, but I don't think I could sell cars I had no personal interest in. But that sure seems like it's the case, doesn't it?


    Hey, it's not just car sales. One can find that same exact behavior in places like Best Buy, etc.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    I bought a new MB wearing a t-shirt and jeans - but people around here are pretty casual (and I did drive up in a MB), so the salespeople maybe don't pre-judge too much.

    Sometimes it is too bad being a car salesman is more about the selling game than knowledge. Most I have ever talked to seem to know a little, but the die-hards aren't common, especially in volume brands. It's all about selling.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Aren't quite a few cars shipped from overseas these days basically shrink wrapped or equivalent for the ocean voyage? It may be that Audi leaves it on until it gets to the dealer, while some others do inspection and touch up after leaving the ship at the arriving port. Heck, various items made overseas are sometimes even shrink wrapped before boarding aircraft transports. In fact, I think the military is doing some of that now too.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ah, that would make a lot of sense. Less need for it shipping just around the US.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I bought a new MB wearing a t-shirt and jeans - but people around here are pretty casual (and I did drive up in a MB), so the salespeople maybe don't pre-judge too much.

    My experiences are that even people who don't look like much can be very well off. Any salesperson who prejudges to that degree is risking a sale.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,429
    Especially true in this area, where people tend to dress very casual, and there are many childless younger people with money to spend. I've been a lookie-loo at many highline dealers in the area, most of the time was attended to just fine. But have been ignored at some mainstream dealers, too.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    The guy who answered the phone said, 'we probably won't get one of those for a few months' and I said, 'Really? They've been building them for a couple of weeks' and he replied, 'yeah, but they gotta get 'em shipped and all that'. I hate when I know more about product than a salesperson.

    Uplander, keep in mind that the factory needs to build enough inventory to stock all the dealers in both the US and Canada. The first few weeks of production are stored away, then they are all shipped to the dealer at the same time.

    So, yeah, I can see a month's delay from 'start of production' to 'now available at your local dealer'.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,875
    edited April 2013
    My experiences are that even people who don't look like much can be very well off. Any salesperson who prejudges to that degree is risking a sale.

    My Stude dealer friend told me a guy came in, dirty and scruffy, and inquired as to the single Golden Hawk they had in inventory. My friend admits to first thinking the guy was a 'tire kicker'...until the guy pulled $4,000 cash out of his pants pocket to pay cash for the car! My friend said he learned that lesson that day.

    Of course, our town, although only 9K population then, had several factories where guys did OK then.
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