The Current State of the US Auto Market

dieselone

Gasoline weighs around approx. 6 lbs/gal (water is around 8lbs/gal and is why it settles to the bottom of the tank) . But yes theoretically, extra 200lbs likely makes a small difference in fuel economy. But you can't drive around with an empty tank, so say only filling 1/2 the tank means you're carrying an extra 100lbs, I don't think the extra 100lbs is noticeable.

I don't notice a difference between a nearly empty tank or full tank in my Expedition. IIRC, I read somewhere that every extra 100lbs can cost up to 1% in FE. If true, it would be hard to notice in regards to FE.

ateixeira

I guess a hyper-miler might get 0.2mpg better and save 12 cents a week, but....

If you run empty, the fuel pump is cooled by the fuel itself. So it can overheat and leave you with an expensive repair.

Not to mention leave you stranded.

I say that's penny wise, pound foolish.

stever

I don't run completely to empty but I often get down to the E, and sometimes the low fuel light comes on. Haven't lost a fuel pump yet. It's rare that I can get more than 17 gallons in my 20 gallon tank.

Don't know what it weighed but I tossed the back seat in my minivan when it was new. Have always managed to beat the EPA numbers (even the higher numbers before they revised them downward).

The weight savings is one reason why gas tanks got smaller. For a while there one of the Prius models had a bladder type gas tank, presumably to save weight.

ateixeira

Early ones did, but that's gone now. I guess people complained about the loss of range.

Even still, US models have a 11.9 gallon capacity while JDM models can fit a whole 15.9 gallons! Easy to see why JDM Prius hold the world records for total range. Some of those crazy hyper-milers get 112+ mpg, imagine that with nearly 16 gallons...

The Prius c holds about 9 gallons, IIRC. That kills range.

stever

My guess is that the small tanks are there to game the EPA tests.

dieselone

I usually fill up around 1/4 tank. Though when the low fuel light comes on when DTE is 50 miles, I still have about 5 gallons in the tank. I ran it down to 0 once and still had almost 2 gallons in the tank.

IMO a 26 or so gallon tank in a pickup isn't enough. When I'm towing and only getting 8-12 mpg, that doesn't provide much range.

andres3

The 100lbs is a lot more noticeable in a compact car weighing about 3,000 lbs or less than it is in an over 2 ton behemoth like the Expedition.

andres3

Finally got to drive the company Honda minivan rather than the dreaded lame Dodges '02 and '12. The '12 Dodge is light years better than the '02, but the Honda still destroys it in every way.

I wouldn't even call it a competitive comparison, but that's just me. The quietness, refinement, steering feel, and solidness of the Honda were just too much greater to not be noticed.

dieselone

The 100lbs is a lot more noticeable in a compact car weighing about 3,000 lbs or less than it is in an over 2 ton behemoth like the Expedition.

True.

ateixeira

Did you wear a bag over your head? With cut outs for eyes.

Great van, sure, but it's just about the ugliest thing on the road.

stever

"Ford reported an April sales increase of 18%, while General Motors and Chrysler each enjoyed 11% gains, bolstered by a strong stock market, rising home prices and many consumers’ need to replace old vehicles.

Cars sold well for Ford, up 21%, led by the Fusion. Truck and utility vehicle sales were both up 16% as the momentum continues for F-Series and Escape. The automaker had total sales of 212,584.

GM reported a 34% increase for Cadillac, 11% for Buick, 11% for Chevrolet and 7% for GMC.

Toyota reported its sales slipped 1% from a year earlier. Honda sales grew 7% and Nissan was up 23%.

Volkswagen, by contrast, saw sales fall 10% to 33,644 units.

Honda’s sales of 130,999 for the month included a record April for the CR-V while the Pilot and Civic also did well. Accord sales fell 5%. The Honda brand was up 6.6% and Acura was up 14% for the month.

At Nissan, the volume Nissan brand was up 24% and the Infiniti luxury brand was up 10% for total sales of 87,847."

Detroit 3 gain market share in April on strength of pickups, crossovers and luxury cars (Detroit Free Press)

fintail

A few Nissan products will win that battle.

andre1969

I don't think the Odyssey's *too* bad looking. There's just that odd cut on the beltline that makes me think of those old 1960 Dodge Matadors and Polaras, where the tailfin started early on, and ended short of the rear of the car.

The Sienna's a bit ugly up front, and the Quest has an odd, puckered-up look in front, and just seems way slab-sided. Probably helps a bit with interior room, but it just looks awkward with no taper on the sides.

I think the Caravan/Town & Country are good looking, but a bit slab-sided, themselves.

andres3

This is a previous generation Honda van, probably the kind you like, its gotta be a few years old, it has 45K miles on it. They get driven an "average" amount.

uplanderguy

I always thought it odd that the previous generation Odyssey (don't know about the current one, don't want to burn my retinas! LOL) had the gear shift lever protruding out of the instrument panel. Not a big deal, but four decades after design starting to get rid of protrusions from the instrument panel, just seemed odd to me.

andre1969

The previous model Odyssey's not bad looking. Nothing exciting at all about it, but there's nothing really irritating about it, either. About the only thing I can think of to nitpick about it is the jumbo-sized headlights. But, on a minivan, they don't look as disproportionate.

I know minivans are anything BUT fashion statements, but IMO, about the best looking minivans were the Voyager/Caravan/T&C from 1996 until around 2001 or whenever they gave them a facelift, where they got bigger headlights.

fintail

My dad had a T&C of that era, white with grey leather, the slightly gold washed wheels, loaded to the brim. He loved that thing, even though it puked a transmission when relatively new. Pricey bugger when new, I think well north of 35K back in 97, I think.

I agree that 96+ Mopar van design was very clean, looked like something from the future when they debuted (early launch, spring 95 IIRC, I was 18 then and seem to remember then as much as yesterday).

uplanderguy

When I first started seeing a lot of Odysseys, I thought it a little unusual that on a tall vehicle, there were horizontal taillights. I think all the domestics had taillights placed vertically on the corners of the rear of the body.

stever

Word on the street is that price cuts will expand to other models too - this is just the first volley.

"Industry analysts say Nissan can afford the cuts because of efforts in Japan to weaken the yen against the dollar. That makes cars and parts made in Japan cheaper than goods made in the U.S. Nissan's Munoz denied the weak yen influenced Nissan's decision, saying that four of the seven affected models are built in North America."

Nissan cuts prices on 7 U.S. models (Yahoo)

ateixeira

Lexus was up 3%, but they should be given the fresh lineup.

Accord beat Camry, and Altima dropped out of the top 10! Maybe Mazda6 stole a few of those sales? Nissan still managed to be up 25%

Big winners were Ram, Cadillac, and Subaru.

Seems like Subaru can do no wrong. Up a whopping 25% from the previous record year, thanks to the bigger and more fuel efficient Forester. Best April in its history. They should have no problem breaking their record for the 5th year in a row. What recession?

ateixeira

gear shift lever protruding out of the instrument panel

Minivan moms want that - they need space for a large purse in between the front seats. Or a huge console, and maybe a purse in front of it.

I'm not kidding. That's basically mandatory. I think all shifters in vans are on the upper console.

For parents with young infants they also want the pass through, so you can't have a shifter coming out of the floor.

ateixeira

Makes sense if they are able to reduce the rebates and still make a profit. You don't want to be known as the cheapest car in each class, though.

dieselone

Big winners were Ram, Cadillac, and Subaru.

Ram had impressive incentives for April. When I looked at a new Ram last week. They were offering $4k in rebates, plus 84 months no interest.

I definitely see a lot of Ram pickups running around here. Nice truck.

ateixeira

That's gotta be on the outgoing model, right? Not the new 8EAT...

Then again, $4k is like 10% off most of them, not that much when you think about it.

dieselone

That's gotta be on the outgoing model, right? Not the new 8EAT...

I could have gotten that deal on the '13 Ram Laramie Crew Cab with Hemi/8 speed, according to the salesman anyway.

Then again, $4k is like 10% off most of them, not that much when you think about it.

That was just rebate money, not including what the dealer was willing to do.

fintail

Most remarkable thing I recall about any Odyssey was the early oughts style with the creased rear glass. Interesting design touch, but probably expensive to replace.

andre1969

I just did a quick search on the dealer's website that I bought my 2012 Ram from. The closest 2013 equivalents they have to my truck (regular cab, long bed, fairly basic) were internet-priced at something like $18348 and $19320.

here's the inventory page, if anyone wants to see.

For comparison, my 2012 was internet-priced at $17499. To get those internet prices, they throw every conceivable rebate on, even though you probably won't qualify for every single one. And they don't include freight, which was $995 on my truck. And dealer processing, which I forget how much that was.

Anyway, my 2012 was an end of the model year and I'm sure they wanted it gone, so the rebates were pretty hefty. I think the MSRP on it was around $25-26K. According to the sales tax I paid (Maryland taxes rebates as income), I "paid" about $23,750 for the truck, plus freight/dealer processing, minus the trade-in on my uncle's old truck. But it really came out to around $18,300, plus freight/dealer processing, and minus the trade. Plus, I got them to throw in a sliding rear window and third key fob.

My '12 has the Hemi, but just a 6-speed, whereas these two '13's have the 3.6, but 8-speeds. The $18.3K one looks totally basic, even more stripped than mine, as mine has a spray in bedliner at least, and wider rims. The $19.3K one looks spruced up a bit, with nicer wheels than my truck, chrome grille and bumpers, and just spruced up a bit in general.

So, it looks like these things can still be had pretty cheap, if you hold the line on options and trim levels.

ateixeira

Those don't often break, plus comprehensive insurance would cover it here in MD.

fintail

Old enough vehicle where many don't have comprehensive, I bet. A rare breakage, but shaped glass like that can't be cheap.

ateixeira

Definitely not cheap. It does have a nice crease to it.

Those vans hold their value, though. I'd be keeping full coverage on one. They came out in 2005, I bet they still cost a bunch, let me look it up...

About $8-14 grand. 150k miles on the lower priced ones.

fintail

Oh, I never noticed it in the 05+ model. The 01+ model has it too, that's where it caught my eye. Kind of a funny detail, like a designer was allowed just a little freedom.

circlew

Saw a new Impala in Woodstock, VA today. My first impression tells me Gm is awake.

The pictures only tell a hint of the actual package. The design is now befitting of the Impala namesake of 40 years ago.

I am truly impressed! Only issue is the price since the 6 is the only power train that is worthy,afaic.

Like I posted previously, it was a good move to fleet the '13 Impala and limit the '14 for consumer only. GM should do the same with the refreshed 'Bu to make sure the nameplate cache is renewed from "The Lost Decades". :shades:

uplanderguy

I gotta tell you, I like the car although haven't driven one. I haven't been this interested in a new Chevy for a long time. I saw a V6 with a sticker of $31,700 which seems OK to me, but superfluous (to me) options can drive that to $40K. I don't see the $8K difference, myself.

I have to say, though, after a week of driving turnpikes from PA to IN, I've yet to see one on the road.

andre1969

I gotta tell you, I like the car although haven't driven one. I haven't been this interested in a new Chevy for a long time.

I remember Lemko saying that if GM still made a car as nice as a 1970 Caprice/Impala, he'd have no need for a Cadillac. Or, something to that degree.

I think the 2014 Impala is definitely a step back to that era, where the name still had some prestige to it. A fully-loaded one might seem like a hard sell for $40K, simply because people have gotten so used to being able to get the old W-body version for so cheap. But, I don't think GM is planning on huge sales numbers for the Impala, anyway. The larger end of the size scale (I still hesitate to call any of these "full size" cars) is becoming more of a fringe market, and no longer the mainstream.

I'm still curious to check out the new Impala, but trying to hold off, because I have to admit I'm getting a new car urge right now. My Park Ave acted up last week, to the tune of $1028, and I'm starting wonder when the axe will fall next. This time around, it was a seemingly small enough issue...the belt to the supercharger broke. But, it turned out, it was a tensioner that self-destructed, that made the belt break. And the part for the other belt, which handles the water pump, alternator, and power steering was about to fail as well. So, two new belts, the two tensioners, and a coolant flush because there's a coolant passage through one of those mounts.

It's probably not a good idea to go tire-kicking when you're irritated with your current ride! :P

iluvmysephia1

It's probably not a good idea to go tire-kicking when you're irritated with your current ride!

No, come on, that is the time ta look for a new ride. How 'bout a 2014 Chevrolet Impala? They do look new world order impressive!

andre1969

How 'bout a 2014 Chevrolet Impala? They do look new world order impressive!

Wow, both you and CircleW posting nice things about the new Impala...that must mean that GM really IS on the right track!

Or, in the words of Sheriff Buford T. Justice... "What in the hell is the world coming to?" :P

Actually, I've perused the inventory of the dealership I bought my 2012 Ram from, and they have a couple of 2013 Charger R/T's, with the Hemi, for as low as $23-24,000. That has me a bit tempted. Now, they're basic models, with no nav, leather, or sunroof. So, in modern day terms, a stripper. And, I know from experience that those prices don't include freight, and they throw on every possible incentive, so it's a crap shoot whether you'll actually qualify for them all.

For example, my 2012 Ram had a listed price of $17,499. But, by the time you threw on freight and dealer processing, it came out to around $19,400, plus tax. But still, even accounting for that, it seems those Charger R/T's can be had pretty cheap.

iluvmysephia1

I don't like the new Chargers, for some reason. I do like the old late 60's Chargers, though.

andre1969

I'm not particularly fond of the 2006-2010 Charger, although if I could get a 3.5 or Hemi cheap enough, I wouldn't turn my nose up at it. But, for whatever reason, the 2011+ models really grab me, in a good way.

And yeah, I'd LOVE a '68-70 Charger!

stever

"We've never had anything like this," said Michael J. Jackson, chief executive of AutoNation Inc., a large chain of new-car dealerships. "If you look at the quality, innovation and distinctive design of these midsize vehicles, this is what luxury cars used to be 10, 15 years ago."

Toyota and Honda's grip on the segment started to loosen in 2011, following the arrival of a boldly designed Hyundai Sonata and cheaper VW Passat. New versions of the Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion and Chevrolet Malibu arrived in showrooms last year.

The new competition has forced the Japanese to do something unexpected: Raise their discounts and other sales incentives."

Japanese Car Makers Lose Their Midsize Edge (Wall St. Journal)

hpmctorque

I still hesitate to call any of these "full size" cars...

The '60s and '70s definition of full-size is, well, old. If they no longer make 'em that way, and the new Impalas, LaCrosses, XTSes, Tauruses, MKSes, 300s and Chargers are about as big as they get, then they're "full-size," as I see it. Besides, the new full-sizers may have a bit less shoulder room than yesteryear's, but aren't they generally comparable or even roomier in one or two other internal dimensions?

"Full-size" was a term concocted by Detroit marketing types, to bend peoples' minds into shunning anything less than the land yachts of yore - intermediates, compacts, imports. The idea was to instill the notion that if your main car was one of the latter there was something wrong with you. You didn't measure up. You were inadequate. You were weird. I'll stop there.

hpmctorque

They do look new world order impressive!

Except fot the dashboard. I don't understand the contrasing material on the top of the new Impala's dashboard. Can someone explain it? To me it looks like some tacky left over material that someone might throw on the dash to protect it from the sun. I'm sure that some just love it.

andre1969

The idea was to instill the notion that if your main car was one of the latter there was something wrong with you. You didn't measure up. You were inadequate. You were weird. I'll stop there.

Interestingly, Consumer Reports started bucking against that mindset back in 1968. They tested a 1968 Impala 4-door sedan with a 307 V-8 and a 2-speed Powerglide transmission. It did 0-60 in 14.5 seconds. They made a point of it, to mention that they had previously tested a Dodge Dart sedan that had more legroom, both front and rear, than the Impala. And, the Dart, with just a slant six, was good for 0-60 in 14.0 seconds.

But, to its credit, a '68 Impala would most likely have had thicker, more comfy rear seat cushions. As for front seat comfort, I can only offer my old '68 Dart hardtop and my '67 Catalina convertible (similar to a '68 Impala) up for comparison, but I can vouch that the Dart had more legroom, and was about as comfy as the Catalina.

An Impala would be much better though, for 3 across seating if that's what you needed. And have a larger trunk. And, when properly equipped, would have better towing capacity.

But, with today's crop of cars, I still hesitate to call any of them "full-size". The Taurus feels barely bigger than a Fusion inside to me. According the the EPA, it's about the size of a 1978-83 Malibu inside (or your old LeMans). The Chargers and 300's I've been in seem about on par with my old Intrepid, with the exception of the center spot in the back seat being pretty useless. And the Impala, while fairly roomy, is still just a VERY comfy 4-seater. It simply doesn't have the shoulder room for 3-across seating.

Now, in all fairness, I rarely need to have 3-across seating in a car. But, I do like to have a comfy, roomy car where the other passengers aren't pressed up against me.

uplanderguy

I saw on Chevy's website that the closest dealer to me (not the one I buy from) has a '14 Impala LS with a sticker of $27,535.00--zero options. I think 197 hp would be OK for us, quite honestly. This is a car I'd like to test-drive, although I'm a bad liar/BS'er and really am not in the market for a new car at all right now.

The LS doesn't have some of the unnecessary (to me) electronic gadgetry, like a screen that says "Impala" when you start the car (making that up; but I remember the Chev website alluding to less gadgetry). That's actually a good thing to me.

hpmctorque

I agree with your preference for less electronic gadgetry. If you do test drive the 197 hp Impala, please let us know your impressions.

As most of us know, MB and BMW sell models with less content in Europe. Those would appeal to me if the prices reflected the content level. I don't envision MB or BMW ever selling these here, though. The BMW 320i is a step in the right direction, but the price reduction is insufficient to justify the lower performance versus the 328i. As for MB, a C250 sedan with reduced content would appeal to me more than the FWD CLA.

uplanderguy

I drove to look at the $27,535.00 Impala. First salesman said it was in-transit; then a salesman I somewhat know and he recognizes me (I've never bought a car from him but I used to buy there and he's been there for decades; nice guy, but quoted me $1,100 more between the new car and trade allowance on my old one than where I did buy our '11 Malibu) also said it was in-transit. They had a very nice LTZ in maroon, sticker $39,505. First thing he says after telling me the silver base model is in-transit, is, "Wanna drive this one?". I was sorely tempted, but figured he'd be calling me all the time then. That is a large car, no doubt about it. He said they sold a dark blue one last week.

circlew

I know we are polar opposites because I'd love to drive the V-6 just to compare to my Optima. Since you do not like the loaded versions, perhaps you can give a review of a loaded Chevy that's the first indication GM means business in large cars for Chevy.

I'd love to get your impressions as you know Chevy better than most of us. My dealer in Central NJ has yet to display one. You can test the V-6 and tell the SR he can only sell you the 4 under any circumstances....Please?

Interesting as I had to travel to VA to see my first Impala that is worthy of the name, however.

uplanderguy

I'll admit that I've not seen a single one on the road yet.

Sounds silly, but I haven't had a nearly 'giddy' feeling about a new Chevy in a long time. I've liked the ones I had, but this feeling is like when I looked at them up 'til about maybe and including....'81?

I think it mostly stems from my long-thought feeling that Chevy did large cars well for a long time...and this is a nice-looking large car IMHO.

ateixeira

they have a couple of 2013 Charger R/T's, with the Hemi, for as low as $23-24,000. That has me a bit tempted

That might be worth it just to have the last of a dying breed. Big, V8 sedans may soon become a thing of the past, with 54.5 CAFE staring us in the eye.

ateixeira

I've seen a few. On the road they look like a better executed Avalon. They got the details right. It's just better executed.

Can you get that awesome 12" screen from the XTS? Probably not.

ateixeira

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130506/AUTO0104/305060385/1148/rss25

Far reaching effects for this one...