In an era where the world has a billion more people with cell phones than have access to toilets, the access to a "live person" is only a phone all away. And, you can take your cellphone with you everywhere. OnStar stays with the car.
Surely you realize, but choose to omit, that if you are injured in an accident, reaching for your cellphone is probably not an option.
The vehicle we traded in 2011 had OnStar, and my wife wouldn't drive a vehicle without it. Our new one has it.
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Well, I got rid of one lawn ornament last week, when I finally got my '79 New Yorker started and limped it off to the mechanic. And, now my '00 Park Ave has taken its place! :sick:
It wouldn't start today, and the digital display kept showing "driver unknown". I tried jump starting it though, and it fired right up. However, the security light kept coming on at random. I didn't trust it enough to drive it, so I moved it out of the way in the driveway. Just to test it, I turned it off and on a few times, and every time it fired up, but the "driver unknown" message kept coming up.
Well, this evening I tried messing with it, and same thing. It wouldn't start, but would jump, at least. This time though, I let it sit, and it wouldn't re-start. Oh, and the gas gauge needle is as far to the left as it could possibly go. At first, I was worried that the ECU or something major electronic was starting to fail, But, I kept thinking that maybe it was just the battery...even though the battery was only 3 years old.
I started pulling the battery out, planning to swap it with the battery in my '76 LeMans, and see how it acted. Yanking that sucker out was a bit of a chore, as it's squeezed in tight. But, as soon as I got everything loose and was able to wrestle it out, it put my mind somewhat at ease to see this...
So yeah, I think it's just the battery! :P Back on the last Saturday in April, a tensioner failed and shredded, taking the supercharger belt with it. I got all that taken care of, and the mechanic did the other belt as well, but apparently, that shredding took a chunk out of the battery in the process, and the mechanic didn't notice it I guess.
Thankfully, the sucker picked my driveway to die in. I had driven into DC over the weekend, and it could have died there. Even worse, I went into a parking garage in Georgetown. That would've been fun! :surprise: Now, all it would have done, was taken a jumpstart to get it running, but I have a feeling that if it left me stranded, and started pulling that "unknown driver" crap on me, I would've been thinking the worst, and simply jumpstarting it probably would have been the last thing to cross my flustered mind!
Anyway, I guess I'll see how it behaves after I get a new battery in it. Hopefully that takes care of all that "unknown driver" nonsense, and makes the fuel gauge act normal again.
Surely you realize, but choose to omit, that if you are injured in an accident, reaching for your cellphone is probably not an option.
The vehicle we traded in 2011 had OnStar, and my wife wouldn't drive a vehicle without it. Our new one has it.
No, I didn't omit anything.
Your logic is the very same as I've heard people use against wearing seatbelts... That one instance in which a person can't escape the sinking or burning car and dies in the accident.
Obviously, you think OnStar is worth the price charged. As I stated earlier, if you see the value in it, then you should buy it. I'm not condemning anyone who prefers it.
I can't think of a single person that I know of, including myself, that's ever been in an accident in which someone nearby, or inside the vehicle itself, couldn't use an available cellphone. Has it happened to someone? Sure... Absolutely. Then again, what are the odds?
Again, if you see the value in it, then its suitable for you.
We'd all probably be safer, statistically, if we all wore crash helmets 24/7, but I don't see anyone doing it. Surely, the minimal cost of a helmet would be much less than the cost of a head injury.
I can't think of a single person that I know of, including myself, that's ever been in an accident in which someone nearby, or inside the vehicle itself, couldn't use an available cellphone. Has it happened to someone? Sure... Absolutely. Then again, what are the odds?
Why am I suddenly getting a chilling image of Kathy Bates and a ball peen hammer? :surprise:
I like that article, I would wager it is bought and paid for propaganda. Don't get me wrong, I like the S - but the Tesla vs luxobarge comparison a hilariously apples and oranges idea.
Well I'm sure CR wasn't paid for, and they said the Tesla was the best car they'd ever tested as far as I heard.
Pretty impressive for a small startup that is breaking new ground against long-established players. Just like Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, is doing in the launch business.
Thank goodness there are still some real entrepreneurs left in this country.
Well I'm sure CR wasn't paid for, and they said the Tesla was the best car they'd ever tested as far as I heard.
Seems a bit like the proverbial tempest in a teapot to me.
While a great CR review might increase sales on items like cameras, TVs and lawn mowers, I'm dubious that many will rush out to purchase any item in the upper 5-digit price tag range due to a great review.
Thank goodness there are still some real entrepreneurs left in this country.
I can't think of a single person that I know of, including myself, that's ever been in an accident in which someone nearby, or inside the vehicle itself, couldn't use an available cellphone. Has it happened to someone? Sure... Absolutely. Then again, what are the odds?
I do.
Good friends of a good friend of mine. I saw the pics. They are lucky to be alive. It was a Buick Lucerne.
They replaced it with an Impala...again, with OnStar.
All I'm getting at is, if Lexus or M-B had introduced such a product, there'd be universal gushing. I think we all know that. Since it was GM, not so.
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The price of Tesla (symbol TSLA) stock has been soaring. The stock's spike may portend future success for the company, or it could be a bubble. We'll know in time. My comments on the stock relates to your comment "I'm dubious that many will rush out to purchase any item in the upper 5-digit price tag range due to a great review." When you're dealing with very high price items, each incremental sale has a significant impact on margins.
CR's endorsement may give a number of wealthy fence sitters sufficient confidence to buy a new Model S, especially now that they have some assurance regarding depreciation. While I won't have a Tesla in my garage any time soon, I'm not as dismissive of this car as I had been. Also, I'd be inclined to wait for the introduction of a more mass market model than the S.
CR's endorsement may give a number of wealthy fence sitters sufficient confidence to buy a new Model S, especially now that they have some assurance regarding depreciation.
Highly doubtful, IMO.
I'm not dismissive of Tesla at all. I just don't think a CR review of ANY expensive product is going to push many folks off the fence.
Most folks able to spend that kind of cash didn't accumulate it by relying on one or two reviews, regardless how credible they might be. The review may give them confidence they made a correct choice afterwards, but that's about it. Re-enforcement of the act, after the fact...
Of course, there's the old saying " a fool and his money...", so I'm sure some individual might do so...
I'd say you really ought to ease up a bit on that axe you're grinding about how everyone's after GM.
I agree. I'll buy a GM product as soon as they build something I like better than the competition (a longer warranty and Onstar isn't going to do it). That hasn't happened yet, but seems they're getting closer.
I'm curious to sample the new Silverado. The looks inside and out doesn't excite me, but I do want to drive one. Same with the upcoming Suburban.
Maybe that's because everyone has been after GM, no matter what they did or do, just because of..., well, just because it seems to be what others are doing.
I don't understand why some defend GM to no end and seem offended when someone says something negative. It's just car company. I've owned several Fords and so has several family members. But my feather's don't get ruffled when someone states their disdain for Ford or why an Accord is a better car than a Fusion. Most of the time, they have a valid reason.
You'll never here me defend Ford or whine that others don't have the same opinion as I do regarding Ford. Like GM, they have lots of warts too.
But, I kept thinking that maybe it was just the battery...even though the battery was only 3 years old.
From the posts I've been reading here I thought batteries in GM products last as long a elephants;)
Did the gas gauge straighten out? I know the gas gauge in my grandpa's '00 Park Ave was pointing down on the left of the gauge for several years. IIRC, the whole gauge cluster needed to be replaced to fix it (I think some companies can repair them).
I know a bad battery will cause weird electrical problems.
I got our boat out of storage last week and after I charged the batteries I tried to start it. I turned the batter selector switch to bank 1 for the primary starting battery. A few weird things happened. The digital display on the tach turned on (it shouldn't until the key is in the on position) and the tach did the initial sweep to the right and back to zero. They key wasn't even in the ignition.
Turns out I forgot I'd disconnected the positive lead on the 2nd battery and the negative was attached. Also when I tried to start the engine, nothing would happen. Hooked up the positive and everything worked fine.
>'00 Park Ave was pointing down on the left of the gauge for several years.
Some of those would get turned around and the needle was against a small post that's supposed to limit its minimum travel. Some drilled a hole through the plastic and used a paperclip hook to lift it over the post so it was back in its normal travel. Some used a magnet to do the same.
Some gas gauges have a wear problem with the two prongs in the gas gauge in the tank. They don't touch the potentiometer and that gives a full reading
Did the gas gauge straighten out? I know the gas gauge in my grandpa's '00 Park Ave was pointing down on the left of the gauge for several years. IIRC, the whole gauge cluster needed to be replaced to fix it (I think some companies can repair them).
Dunno yet, as I haven't had a chance yet to put another battery in the car yet. As soon as I pulled that old battery out and saw the missing chunk, I figured there was no need to try taking the battery out of the LeMans to see if the issues would go away. Plus, it was getting dark and chilly, and I was getting aggravated.
My gas gauge always gets a little weird once it gets down to below a half-tank. Sudden turns, starts, stops, etc, can make it plunge all the way to E, and then sometimes spike all the way to F. However, yesterday was the first time I ever saw it plunge as far to the left as it did.
I'm going to get a new battery after work today, so hopefully that will do the trick! I hope so, because I've had to sink about $3,000 into this car, although that's been over the course of the last seven months, so maybe that's not *too* horrible. I just hope it doesn't start to become a regular occurrence.
I'm going to get a new battery after work today, so hopefully that will do the trick! I hope so, because I've had to sink about $3,000 into this car, although that's been over the course of the last seven months, so maybe that's not *too* horrible. I just hope it doesn't start to become a regular occurrence.
Time to start shopping for a replacement! See you over on the CCBA board.
Time to start shopping for a replacement! See you over on the CCBA board.
Oh, it's tempting. I'm convinced that the reason this car is acting up is simply because I decided that, once I got a little money saved up, I was going to do something hedonistic and get the rip in the driver's seat fixed, rather than just have a towel over it.
But then, in February I had to put $1186 into it when the check engine light came on and it started shifting funny. The mechanic changed the MAF sensor, some canister, a solenoid, and did some other stuff and the issue went away. Then, on April 27 that tensioner broke, taking the belt with it and now, as I'm discovering, the battery as well. That bill came out to $1028, as they replaced that tensioner as well as another one that was OEM and about to let go, as well. Plus, two belts and a coolant flush, since there was a coolant passage that went through one of the tensioner housings.
And, back in October, it needed new rear brake pads, rotors, work on a caliper that was sticking, a new axle shaft and boot, and swaybar links. That came out to $1045.
Now admittedly, some of that is just maintenance, like the rear brake pads. And if I hadn't let the pads get so bad, they wouldn't have cut into the rotors. However, the previous mechanic had once said that the rear pads still had over 50% of their life left, as of March 2011, when the car had about 69,000 miles on it. And yet, by October 2012, at 87,000, they get to the point they're tearing into the rotor?! But, that previous mechanic had also over-tightened the sway bar links on a previous repair, prompting them to be replaced, again, at 87K.
So, a lot of this stuff isn't necessarily the car's fault. Part of it is mine. And the previous mechanic's. :sick:
I think to deny the earlier comment is not being honest. It's OK to admit it. But, to each his own.
Who denied your comment?
I certainly didn't. Every car company has its critics, so why should anyone get a free pass?
I'm in agreement with dieselone in his views. I currently own BMW and Toyota products, but I'm certainly not above criticizing them when I think they are wrong or have poor product performance. And I certainly don't feel the need to run to their defense each and every time someone posts something negative about them.
C'mon, we all know Internet forums are far more opinion based than fact based, don't we?
Maybe that's because everyone has been after GM, no matter what they did or do, just because of..., well, just because it seems to be what others are doing.
I think to a degree, GM is always going to be a public whipping boy, simply because they were so big and so powerful for such a long time. They're a shell of their former glory today, but they are, at least, rising from the ashes and on the mend.
I could delineate the factual errors that used to crop up continuously on the old GM board, but (thankfully to all) won't do that here.
It's just good to be able to admit that hey, sometimes GM gets something right. That almost never happens here.
I still believe the original statement...OnStar, if introduced on a Japanese car, would have far more positive things said about it here. I think that is simply undeniable. But that's my opinion.
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I'd say that the Big 2.5's main problem is a lack of consistency throughout their product lines.
With say Toyota or BMW, people seem to have an opinion about the company's cars as if they were all one car. "Oh yeah, Toyotas are very reliable"....or..."Those BMWs really handle well".
With Ford GM and Chrysler, it's usually "well, which year and which model and which production date are we talking about?"
I still believe the original statement...OnStar, if introduced on a Japanese car, would have far more positive things said about it here. I think that is simply undeniable. But that's my opinion.
Maybe..
FWIW, I don't know too many BMW owners that tout BMW Assist much. Over 7 years of availability to me, and the only time I used it was to set up my account when the car was new.
It would appear that the only people that really care one way or the other about OnStar-like services are the relatively few that seem to use it on some sort of regular basis, or who had a positive experience in some manner with it.
It would be interesting to know the subscription rate, to see what percentage actually pay for the service out of their own pocket and use it other than for remote vehicle access through smartphone apps.
That should be a decent indicator of how the market views such a service.
Umm...I think the context zoomed over your little head. I was mocking the comparison of the S to the S/7er/A8, which IMO is insanely apples to oranges. Comparing the S to larger thirstier more expensive far more traditional and formal luxobarges is disingenuous at best, and borders on being deceptive. News alert, I bet the Tesla roadster outsold the Phantom cabrio or Aventador, too.
Musk is entrepreneur and luck. No doubt born with a lot of simply natural talent, as many STEM leaders seem to be. Couple that with a relatively affluent family who enabled his interests, being very lucky during the 90s, and now having his automotive venture aided by the public at large (the huge subsidies and ~ half a billion in loans didn't come from nowhere) has created something. I like the S, if I could justify the money I might look into one of their leases with the convoluted logic and numbers - but let's not pretend this came from nothing.
Thank goodness that for at least a few firms, the US supports domestic business like the competition supports theirs. Some whiny middle agers don't like the idea of subsidizing business to match the competition, or turning around and enacting punitive measures to entrants on our playground who don't play by our rules. For Musk, he's received the former, and ran with it.
At least 11-12 years ago, MB started an emergency system called "tele-aid", but I don't know anyone who has used it, when it was created vs onstar, or even how it really works etc.
I trust their tech reviews more than the usual journalists. They focus on the gadgets, and the Cadenza is a very tech-laden car, much of it standard. It will appeal to techie geeks moving up from an Optima so I don't see the 5:4 scale thing being an issue at all.
I would not buy a car based just on his review, but it would weigh as much as any other review.
They probably love a Camry SE, too.
Nope, screen is small vs newer competitors. Cooley likes Hyundai/Kia first in that segment. They tested a new Accord and Altima but neither had the GPS Nav, which is a shame.
Renewal rates for the service—which is offered one year for free on new GM vehicles—will climb into the 60 percent range in 2011 and remain there for the next few years.
Here's my question, though...
How many subscribers renew so that they can access their car via smartphone app .vs. how many renew so they can have a live person on he other end?
I have no way of knowing, but I suspect if the remote access via smartphone disappeared, so would most of that 60% renewal rate.
“GM’s OnStar has proven the appeal of telematics services among consumers,” said Anna Buettner, analyst and regional manager for automotive electronics at IHS. “From automatic collision notification to stolen vehicle assistance, to on-board navigation, to remote door unlock, to mobile phone remote control, to destination download from Google/Mapquest, OnStar has delivered a suite of services that motorists like. OnStar will continue to add compelling services in the future, such as remote software upgrade of electronic control units (ECUs).”
The way I originally got into this discussion about OnStar was in regards to how GM originally refused to offer NAV systems in vehicles but instead offered NAV services through the OnStar link, and how some buyers (can't say how many) that really wanted a NAV system wouldn't consider a GM model that depended on OnStar for that function.
I have no doubt that owners in their "senior" years might well prefer a live person, but I'd wager just about anyone under 30-35 would turn their noses up at a GM product if the smartphone access wasn't there (ie., included in OnStar functionality), as it relates to those desiring remote access to their vehicle.
So, just as a matter of record, does anyone know the first manufacturer to offer smartphone access to their vehicles? Might be GM, I don't know.
Do techie geeks buy middle of the road Optimas to begin with? Living in the land of techie geeks, here's my observations on what they drive: Prius, Prius, Prius, Prius, Leaf, Prius, Volt, Prius, Civrolla, Prius, Insight, Prius, weathered old Saturn, Prius :shades:
I don't see anything for the enthusiast to jump up and down about in the Cadenza. Goofy name, too, but that's the Korean aesthetic I guess.
I am not a techie geek, but I will say that if I am going as far as laying down the money for a new car, I want integrated nav.
Even easier when you mandate data transfer as a part of any branch plant operation. Some "partner" eh?
The south has a lot more going for it re: manufacturing other than no UAW presence. Easy transportation routes, seriously cheap land, huge subsidies. I don't know if the Chinese want to actually build cars in Michigan, although I'd wager a MI engineered and built Chery is going to be better than one from the homeland.
I read a Motortrend review of the Cadenza, and they seemed to like it. They said it was essentially what the Lexus ES was a few years ago, before Lexus tried to go all hard-edge and think that it's a serious BMW-contender.
No doubt it's a decent car, but I wonder if that market's getting a bit crowded. It seems that these days, anything bigger than a Camry/Accord/et al is pretty much a niche market. There's already the Avalon, ES350, Azera, Lucerne, and now the Impala. And, I'd throw the Taurus into that group as well. Even the Charger/300, although they're RWD and have performance versions that would appeal to a less "sophisticated" crowd. I doubt too many people are going to cross-shop a Charger with a Cadenza or Azera, though. Might be a bit of overlap with the 300 though?
I think to a degree, GM is always going to be a public whipping boy, simply because they were so big and so powerful for such a long time.
Well stated.
This is the same reason people targeting Asian brands tend to pick on Toyota. They're the biggest target. The Prius alone gets more flack from enthusiasts than most entire brands do.
And to make sure we cover the 3 major regions, what you hear more often, German cars are unreliable, or VWs are unreliable?
OnStar, if introduced on a Japanese car, would have far more positive things said about it here
I think LoJack was first, but that's aftermarket and works a bit differently.
A few other examples have been brought up, but I'll add Hyundai's Blue Link, and I've stated in other threads that I would not renew it once the free trial period was over.
These are profit padders, IMHO.
What I don't like about OnStar is that you get voice/text directions instead of integration with a map/GPS, which is how it should be done.
Now that screens are becoming ubiquitious OnStar should "reboot" and change that.
The XTS has a gorgeous 12.1" display. OnStar should take advantage of that!
my observations on what they drive: Prius, Prius, Prius, Prius, Leaf, Prius, Volt, Prius, Civrolla, Prius, Insight, Prius, weathered old Saturn, Prius
You got that TOTALLY wrong.
The order is reversed, it's Prius, old Saturn, Prius, etc.
Hyundai was late to the market but then leap-frogged the DVD- and hard-drive based competition, using flash memory for their fast/responsive interface. Compare and contrast to Ford to see what I mean. Sync adds a lot of annoying pauses.
Their latest system lets you e-mail a destination to your car and honk your horn or flash your lights from your iPhone. I guess a lot of geeks forget where they parked.
The order is reversed, it's Prius, old Saturn, Prius, etc.
Alright now, y'all need to stop hanging out in the NASA parking lots! :P I swear, there are some days I can go out there and see at least one example of every generation of Prius, plus an old Insight thrown in for good measure!
I think if you opt for a car that big, being sporty would matter less to me.
If I get a hatch, it'll be a hot hatch. But a large sedan should be comfortable. I'm not going to take it to Summit Point.
Maybe it's my multi-car strategy that's showing. I'll take a little sporty car to carve corners, and a big one to cruise comfortably and eat up the miles.
My problem is with college tuition around the corner, I may not longer be able to afford both!
I think if you opt for a car that big, being sporty would matter less to me.
Yeah, I guess the Maxima could get thrown in there as well. I guess I overlook it because, to me at least it's a bit small-ish, but it still sort of falls into that premium, upscale-but-not-quite-luxury category.
I kinda like the style of the Maxima. Can't remember ever sitting in one though, so I can't comment on how it felt.
GM also was politicized by the events of 2008-2009. That will continue for a long time the feelings on the part of some folks.
Another point is that when someone criticizes toyota or Honda, there is a fast, strong reaction by several people. That drums out any negativity because of the group mentality. When GM gets criticized, there are only a few voices supporting the good things.
Their latest system lets you e-mail a destination to your car and honk your horn or flash your lights from your iPhone. I guess a lot of geeks forget where they parked.
BMW does that, too. You also have door unlock/lock function and a map-location function, which will locate your car for you if you are <=1 KM.
Comments
Surely you realize, but choose to omit, that if you are injured in an accident, reaching for your cellphone is probably not an option.
The vehicle we traded in 2011 had OnStar, and my wife wouldn't drive a vehicle without it. Our new one has it.
It wouldn't start today, and the digital display kept showing "driver unknown". I tried jump starting it though, and it fired right up. However, the security light kept coming on at random. I didn't trust it enough to drive it, so I moved it out of the way in the driveway. Just to test it, I turned it off and on a few times, and every time it fired up, but the "driver unknown" message kept coming up.
Well, this evening I tried messing with it, and same thing. It wouldn't start, but would jump, at least. This time though, I let it sit, and it wouldn't re-start. Oh, and the gas gauge needle is as far to the left as it could possibly go. At first, I was worried that the ECU or something major electronic was starting to fail, But, I kept thinking that maybe it was just the battery...even though the battery was only 3 years old.
I started pulling the battery out, planning to swap it with the battery in my '76 LeMans, and see how it acted. Yanking that sucker out was a bit of a chore, as it's squeezed in tight. But, as soon as I got everything loose and was able to wrestle it out, it put my mind somewhat at ease to see this...
So yeah, I think it's just the battery! :P Back on the last Saturday in April, a tensioner failed and shredded, taking the supercharger belt with it. I got all that taken care of, and the mechanic did the other belt as well, but apparently, that shredding took a chunk out of the battery in the process, and the mechanic didn't notice it I guess.
Thankfully, the sucker picked my driveway to die in. I had driven into DC over the weekend, and it could have died there. Even worse, I went into a parking garage in Georgetown. That would've been fun! :surprise: Now, all it would have done, was taken a jumpstart to get it running, but I have a feeling that if it left me stranded, and started pulling that "unknown driver" crap on me, I would've been thinking the worst, and simply jumpstarting it probably would have been the last thing to cross my flustered mind!
Anyway, I guess I'll see how it behaves after I get a new battery in it. Hopefully that takes care of all that "unknown driver" nonsense, and makes the fuel gauge act normal again.
The vehicle we traded in 2011 had OnStar, and my wife wouldn't drive a vehicle without it. Our new one has it.
No, I didn't omit anything.
Your logic is the very same as I've heard people use against wearing seatbelts... That one instance in which a person can't escape the sinking or burning car and dies in the accident.
Obviously, you think OnStar is worth the price charged. As I stated earlier, if you see the value in it, then you should buy it. I'm not condemning anyone who prefers it.
I can't think of a single person that I know of, including myself, that's ever been in an accident in which someone nearby, or inside the vehicle itself, couldn't use an available cellphone. Has it happened to someone? Sure... Absolutely. Then again, what are the odds?
Again, if you see the value in it, then its suitable for you.
We'd all probably be safer, statistically, if we all wore crash helmets 24/7, but I don't see anyone doing it. Surely, the minimal cost of a helmet would be much less than the cost of a head injury.
Why am I suddenly getting a chilling image of Kathy Bates and a ball peen hammer? :surprise:
Well I'm sure CR wasn't paid for, and they said the Tesla was the best car they'd ever tested as far as I heard.
Pretty impressive for a small startup that is breaking new ground against long-established players. Just like Elon Musk's other company, SpaceX, is doing in the launch business.
Thank goodness there are still some real entrepreneurs left in this country.
Seems a bit like the proverbial tempest in a teapot to me.
While a great CR review might increase sales on items like cameras, TVs and lawn mowers, I'm dubious that many will rush out to purchase any item in the upper 5-digit price tag range due to a great review.
Thank goodness there are still some real entrepreneurs left in this country.
Agreed!
I do.
Good friends of a good friend of mine. I saw the pics. They are lucky to be alive. It was a Buick Lucerne.
They replaced it with an Impala...again, with OnStar.
All I'm getting at is, if Lexus or M-B had introduced such a product, there'd be universal gushing. I think we all know that. Since it was GM, not so.
CR's endorsement may give a number of wealthy fence sitters sufficient confidence to buy a new Model S, especially now that they have some assurance regarding depreciation. While I won't have a Tesla in my garage any time soon, I'm not as dismissive of this car as I had been. Also, I'd be inclined to wait for the introduction of a more mass market model than the S.
Highly doubtful, IMO.
I'm not dismissive of Tesla at all. I just don't think a CR review of ANY expensive product is going to push many folks off the fence.
Most folks able to spend that kind of cash didn't accumulate it by relying on one or two reviews, regardless how credible they might be. The review may give them confidence they made a correct choice afterwards, but that's about it. Re-enforcement of the act, after the fact...
Of course, there's the old saying " a fool and his money...", so I'm sure some individual might do so...
I do.
Good friends of a good friend of mine. I saw the pics. They are lucky to be alive. It was a Buick Lucerne.
They replaced it with an Impala...again, with OnStar.
All I'm getting at is, if Lexus or M-B had introduced such a product, there'd be universal gushing. I think we all know that. Since it was GM, not so.
I'd say you really ought to ease up a bit on that axe you're grinding about how everyone's after GM.
I agree. I'll buy a GM product as soon as they build something I like better than the competition (a longer warranty and Onstar isn't going to do it). That hasn't happened yet, but seems they're getting closer.
I'm curious to sample the new Silverado. The looks inside and out doesn't excite me, but I do want to drive one. Same with the upcoming Suburban.
I'd say you really ought to ease up a bit on that axe you're grinding about how everyone's after GM.
I think to deny the earlier comment is not being honest. It's OK to admit it. But, to each his own.
Maybe that's because everyone has been after GM, no matter what they did or do, just because of..., well, just because it seems to be what others are doing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You'll never here me defend Ford or whine that others don't have the same opinion as I do regarding Ford. Like GM, they have lots of warts too.
From the posts I've been reading here I thought batteries in GM products last as long a elephants;)
Did the gas gauge straighten out? I know the gas gauge in my grandpa's '00 Park Ave was pointing down on the left of the gauge for several years. IIRC, the whole gauge cluster needed to be replaced to fix it (I think some companies can repair them).
I know a bad battery will cause weird electrical problems.
I got our boat out of storage last week and after I charged the batteries I tried to start it. I turned the batter selector switch to bank 1 for the primary starting battery. A few weird things happened. The digital display on the tach turned on (it shouldn't until the key is in the on position) and the tach did the initial sweep to the right and back to zero. They key wasn't even in the ignition.
Turns out I forgot I'd disconnected the positive lead on the 2nd battery and the negative was attached. Also when I tried to start the engine, nothing would happen. Hooked up the positive and everything worked fine.
Some of those would get turned around and the needle was against a small post that's supposed to limit its minimum travel. Some drilled a hole through the plastic and used a paperclip hook to lift it over the post so it was back in its normal travel. Some used a magnet to do the same.
Some gas gauges have a wear problem with the two prongs in the gas gauge in the tank. They don't touch the potentiometer and that gives a full reading
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Dunno yet, as I haven't had a chance yet to put another battery in the car yet. As soon as I pulled that old battery out and saw the missing chunk, I figured there was no need to try taking the battery out of the LeMans to see if the issues would go away. Plus, it was getting dark and chilly, and I was getting aggravated.
My gas gauge always gets a little weird once it gets down to below a half-tank. Sudden turns, starts, stops, etc, can make it plunge all the way to E, and then sometimes spike all the way to F. However, yesterday was the first time I ever saw it plunge as far to the left as it did.
I'm going to get a new battery after work today, so hopefully that will do the trick! I hope so, because I've had to sink about $3,000 into this car, although that's been over the course of the last seven months, so maybe that's not *too* horrible. I just hope it doesn't start to become a regular occurrence.
Time to start shopping for a replacement! See you over on the CCBA board.
Oh, it's tempting. I'm convinced that the reason this car is acting up is simply because I decided that, once I got a little money saved up, I was going to do something hedonistic and get the rip in the driver's seat fixed, rather than just have a towel over it.
But then, in February I had to put $1186 into it when the check engine light came on and it started shifting funny. The mechanic changed the MAF sensor, some canister, a solenoid, and did some other stuff and the issue went away. Then, on April 27 that tensioner broke, taking the belt with it and now, as I'm discovering, the battery as well. That bill came out to $1028, as they replaced that tensioner as well as another one that was OEM and about to let go, as well. Plus, two belts and a coolant flush, since there was a coolant passage that went through one of the tensioner housings.
And, back in October, it needed new rear brake pads, rotors, work on a caliper that was sticking, a new axle shaft and boot, and swaybar links. That came out to $1045.
Now admittedly, some of that is just maintenance, like the rear brake pads. And if I hadn't let the pads get so bad, they wouldn't have cut into the rotors. However, the previous mechanic had once said that the rear pads still had over 50% of their life left, as of March 2011, when the car had about 69,000 miles on it. And yet, by October 2012, at 87,000, they get to the point they're tearing into the rotor?! But, that previous mechanic had also over-tightened the sway bar links on a previous repair, prompting them to be replaced, again, at 87K.
So, a lot of this stuff isn't necessarily the car's fault. Part of it is mine. And the previous mechanic's. :sick:
Who denied your comment?
I certainly didn't. Every car company has its critics, so why should anyone get a free pass?
I'm in agreement with dieselone in his views. I currently own BMW and Toyota products, but I'm certainly not above criticizing them when I think they are wrong or have poor product performance. And I certainly don't feel the need to run to their defense each and every time someone posts something negative about them.
C'mon, we all know Internet forums are far more opinion based than fact based, don't we?
Really?
Everyone has been after GM?
Pull-ease!!!
I'd also add the comment that whoever is on top, regardless of industry, always makes an attractive target. It's easier to see the bulls-eye.
That'd be great.
I could delineate the factual errors that used to crop up continuously on the old GM board, but (thankfully to all) won't do that here.
It's just good to be able to admit that hey, sometimes GM gets something right. That almost never happens here.
I still believe the original statement...OnStar, if introduced on a Japanese car, would have far more positive things said about it here. I think that is simply undeniable. But that's my opinion.
With say Toyota or BMW, people seem to have an opinion about the company's cars as if they were all one car. "Oh yeah, Toyotas are very reliable"....or..."Those BMWs really handle well".
With Ford GM and Chrysler, it's usually "well, which year and which model and which production date are we talking about?"
Maybe..
FWIW, I don't know too many BMW owners that tout BMW Assist much. Over 7 years of availability to me, and the only time I used it was to set up my account when the car was new.
It would appear that the only people that really care one way or the other about OnStar-like services are the relatively few that seem to use it on some sort of regular basis, or who had a positive experience in some manner with it.
It would be interesting to know the subscription rate, to see what percentage actually pay for the service out of their own pocket and use it other than for remote vehicle access through smartphone apps.
That should be a decent indicator of how the market views such a service.
ONSTAR Projects 7.9 Million Subscribers by 2017
Musk is entrepreneur and luck. No doubt born with a lot of simply natural talent, as many STEM leaders seem to be. Couple that with a relatively affluent family who enabled his interests, being very lucky during the 90s, and now having his automotive venture aided by the public at large (the huge subsidies and ~ half a billion in loans didn't come from nowhere) has created something. I like the S, if I could justify the money I might look into one of their leases with the convoluted logic and numbers - but let's not pretend this came from nothing.
Thank goodness that for at least a few firms, the US supports domestic business like the competition supports theirs. Some whiny middle agers don't like the idea of subsidizing business to match the competition, or turning around and enacting punitive measures to entrants on our playground who don't play by our rules. For Musk, he's received the former, and ran with it.
I trust their tech reviews more than the usual journalists. They focus on the gadgets, and the Cadenza is a very tech-laden car, much of it standard. It will appeal to techie geeks moving up from an Optima so I don't see the 5:4 scale thing being an issue at all.
I would not buy a car based just on his review, but it would weigh as much as any other review.
They probably love a Camry SE, too.
Nope, screen is small vs newer competitors. Cooley likes Hyundai/Kia first in that segment. They tested a new Accord and Altima but neither had the GPS Nav, which is a shame.
Funny, though. The Japanese fled Detroit and moved to the south, where non-union is the norm. Even Mercedes and BMW did.
Interesting that the Chinese are setting up shop in Michigan.
Renewal rates for the service—which is offered one year for free on new GM vehicles—will climb into the 60 percent range in 2011 and remain there for the next few years.
Here's my question, though...
How many subscribers renew so that they can access their car via smartphone app .vs. how many renew so they can have a live person on he other end?
I have no way of knowing, but I suspect if the remote access via smartphone disappeared, so would most of that 60% renewal rate.
“GM’s OnStar has proven the appeal of telematics services among consumers,” said Anna Buettner, analyst and regional manager for automotive electronics at IHS. “From automatic collision notification to stolen vehicle assistance, to on-board navigation, to remote door unlock, to mobile phone remote control, to destination download from Google/Mapquest, OnStar has delivered a suite of services that motorists like. OnStar will continue to add compelling services in the future, such as remote software upgrade of electronic control units (ECUs).”
The way I originally got into this discussion about OnStar was in regards to how GM originally refused to offer NAV systems in vehicles but instead offered NAV services through the OnStar link, and how some buyers (can't say how many) that really wanted a NAV system wouldn't consider a GM model that depended on OnStar for that function.
I have no doubt that owners in their "senior" years might well prefer a live person, but I'd wager just about anyone under 30-35 would turn their noses up at a GM product if the smartphone access wasn't there (ie., included in OnStar functionality), as it relates to those desiring remote access to their vehicle.
So, just as a matter of record, does anyone know the first manufacturer to offer smartphone access to their vehicles? Might be GM, I don't know.
I don't see anything for the enthusiast to jump up and down about in the Cadenza. Goofy name, too, but that's the Korean aesthetic I guess.
I am not a techie geek, but I will say that if I am going as far as laying down the money for a new car, I want integrated nav.
Funny, though. The Japanese fled Detroit and moved to the south, where non-union is the norm. Even Mercedes and BMW did.
Interesting that the Chinese are setting up shop in Michigan.
I dunno, isn't the Chinese Communist party really just one big union?
The south has a lot more going for it re: manufacturing other than no UAW presence. Easy transportation routes, seriously cheap land, huge subsidies. I don't know if the Chinese want to actually build cars in Michigan, although I'd wager a MI engineered and built Chery is going to be better than one from the homeland.
Tesla did not pay CR. CR paid Tesla almost $90k to buy the car. This was not a free demo from the loaner fleet, they paid for it and own it.
FFWD to 2:42
http://youtu.be/458TLFRkAlk
No doubt it's a decent car, but I wonder if that market's getting a bit crowded. It seems that these days, anything bigger than a Camry/Accord/et al is pretty much a niche market. There's already the Avalon, ES350, Azera, Lucerne, and now the Impala. And, I'd throw the Taurus into that group as well. Even the Charger/300, although they're RWD and have performance versions that would appeal to a less "sophisticated" crowd. I doubt too many people are going to cross-shop a Charger with a Cadenza or Azera, though. Might be a bit of overlap with the 300 though?
Well stated.
This is the same reason people targeting Asian brands tend to pick on Toyota. They're the biggest target. The Prius alone gets more flack from enthusiasts than most entire brands do.
And to make sure we cover the 3 major regions, what you hear more often, German cars are unreliable, or VWs are unreliable?
Actually, it's more like an eternal high school cafeteria.
I think LoJack was first, but that's aftermarket and works a bit differently.
A few other examples have been brought up, but I'll add Hyundai's Blue Link, and I've stated in other threads that I would not renew it once the free trial period was over.
These are profit padders, IMHO.
What I don't like about OnStar is that you get voice/text directions instead of integration with a map/GPS, which is how it should be done.
Now that screens are becoming ubiquitious OnStar should "reboot" and change that.
The XTS has a gorgeous 12.1" display. OnStar should take advantage of that!
You got that TOTALLY wrong.
The order is reversed, it's Prius, old Saturn, Prius, etc.
Hyundai was late to the market but then leap-frogged the DVD- and hard-drive based competition, using flash memory for their fast/responsive interface. Compare and contrast to Ford to see what I mean. Sync adds a lot of annoying pauses.
Their latest system lets you e-mail a destination to your car and honk your horn or flash your lights from your iPhone. I guess a lot of geeks forget where they parked.
Alright now, y'all need to stop hanging out in the NASA parking lots! :P I swear, there are some days I can go out there and see at least one example of every generation of Prius, plus an old Insight thrown in for good measure!
I think if you opt for a car that big, being sporty would matter less to me.
If I get a hatch, it'll be a hot hatch. But a large sedan should be comfortable. I'm not going to take it to Summit Point.
Maybe it's my multi-car strategy that's showing. I'll take a little sporty car to carve corners, and a big one to cruise comfortably and eat up the miles.
My problem is with college tuition around the corner, I may not longer be able to afford both!
They should have done a CRX instead. Stuff an 2.0l DI engine in there and make Earth Dreams actually mean something.
I think if you opt for a car that big, being sporty would matter less to me.
Yeah, I guess the Maxima could get thrown in there as well. I guess I overlook it because, to me at least it's a bit small-ish, but it still sort of falls into that premium, upscale-but-not-quite-luxury category.
I kinda like the style of the Maxima. Can't remember ever sitting in one though, so I can't comment on how it felt.
GM also was politicized by the events of 2008-2009. That will continue for a long time the feelings on the part of some folks.
Another point is that when someone criticizes toyota or Honda, there is a fast, strong reaction by several people. That drums out any negativity because of the group mentality. When GM gets criticized, there are only a few voices supporting the good things.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Oh! Oh! I attended my youngest daughter's graduation last Sunday at Duke.
As MLK famously once said...
"Free at last, free at last!"
My kids are all now officially off my payroll.
BMW does that, too. You also have door unlock/lock function and a map-location function, which will locate your car for you if you are <=1 KM.
Good for small parking lots, I guess.
I have never had the need to use it.
Could it be they've owned several and rely on them? That support just might have been earned, FWIW.
Though I will say that public perception lags 5 years behind reality.
Hyundais are better than people think, though people are realizing that now.
Toyotas aren't as good as people think. Some people think they make perfect cars, no such thing.
I think GM has been on the upswing for the most part, especially Cadillac. They're not totally consistent, though.